[Suggestion] Stop making Story Bosses Hard (LS4 Spoilers)

[Evolute.6239]

@Illurim.6059 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

Aren't you the bloke that said it was easy? That you did it first go, no deaths? You said:

"I didnt find the Scruffy fight to be particularly difficult, but it was annoying."

So, you're exactly the type of person I was referring to being unable to have a discussion with. One the one hand you tell us you weren't challenged and the fight wasn't difficult. On the other, you're telling me it's meant to be challenging. So, either you're SO GREAT that you didn't notice the challenge, OR your argument is wildly inconsistent. Thus, "the type of person who won't understand my point of view and can't accept it's valid".

Until you can relegate the inconsistencies in your own logic (is it challenging or not?) there's no discussion to be had because the only person being challenged is me, between the two of us, and you're saying I should be. You don't get to decide that for me. I do. And if you WEREN'T challenged, then making it easier for me so I'm NOT challenged seems pretty fair, right?

No, you're the type of person it's impossible to have a discussion with. You want an easy fight nerfed to become easier because you refuse to adapt, to change anything. To be literally given the rewards for a game by showing up.

Go play Hello Kitty Online if you want guaranteed satisfaction with no effort. I mean that in the most non-trolly way possible. I think some WoW LFG fights have more personal responsibility than Scruffy.

[Illurim.6059]

@Chickenooble.5014 said:

@Illurim.6059 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

Aren't you the bloke that said it was easy? That you did it first go, no deaths? You said:

"I didnt find the Scruffy fight to be particularly difficult, but it was annoying."

So, you're exactly the type of person I was referring to being unable to have a discussion with. One the one hand you tell us you weren't challenged and the fight wasn't difficult. On the other, you're telling me it's meant to be challenging. So, either you're SO GREAT that you didn't notice the challenge, OR your argument is wildly inconsistent. Thus, "the type of person who won't understand my point of view and can't accept it's valid".

Until you can relegate the inconsistencies in your own logic (is it challenging or not?) there's no discussion to be had because the only person being challenged is me, between the two of us, and you're saying I should be. You don't get to decide that for me. I do. And if you WEREN'T challenged, then making it easier for me so I'm NOT challenged seems pretty fair, right?No, because it's not about being "fair" - you can always get better. Some people can't get worse. By making content easier for people who can't play the game right then the experience is going to be lessened for everyone else. Why should the content be made easier for you?

I simply don't understand this argument. If some people can't get worse, they probably already find it easy, so there's no challenge for those people. You're assuming people who find the story challenging "can't play the game right" - that's a loaded assumption. It also ignores the base difficulty increase in story over the years in favour of demeaning people "who aren't getting better". Not everyone is on a mission to self-improve their gaming skills. Not everyone is playing this game looking for super challenging content in story modes. STORY modes. Why should the content be made harder for us? Just because you haven't found it challenging enough? Do you even understand the argument you're making, sir?

[Chickenooble.5014]

Fun fact: I find WvW and SPvP very challenging. I don't have the quickness to compete with everyone else in PvP environments and I don't know which classes have which abilities, so I can't effectively fight anyone in the content because I don't know what to expect. I'm terrible at PvP. I get in and try learning but I'm still bad.

I don't think WvW or SPvP should be made easier for me though. I realize I'm just bad at it... and that's fine. I just go play other games. When I find a game that I'm terrible at -- Dark Souls, Donkey Kong Country on Wii U, or any fighting game -- I just don't play them. They're too hard for me. I recognize that and that's fine.

[Chickenooble.5014]

@Illurim.6059 said:

@Chickenooble.5014 said:

@Illurim.6059 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

Aren't you the bloke that said it was easy? That you did it first go, no deaths? You said:

"I didnt find the Scruffy fight to be particularly difficult, but it was annoying."

So, you're exactly the type of person I was referring to being unable to have a discussion with. One the one hand you tell us you weren't challenged and the fight wasn't difficult. On the other, you're telling me it's meant to be challenging. So, either you're SO GREAT that you didn't notice the challenge, OR your argument is wildly inconsistent. Thus, "the type of person who won't understand my point of view and can't accept it's valid".

Until you can relegate the inconsistencies in your own logic (is it challenging or not?) there's no discussion to be had because the only person being challenged is me, between the two of us, and you're saying I should be. You don't get to decide that for me. I do. And if you WEREN'T challenged, then making it easier for me so I'm NOT challenged seems pretty fair, right?No, because it's not about being "fair" - you can always get better. Some people can't get worse. By making content easier for people who can't play the game right then the experience is going to be lessened for everyone else. Why should the content be made easier for you?

I simply don't understand this argument. If some people can't get worse, they probably already find it easy, so there's no challenge for those people. You're assuming people who find the story challenging "can't play the game right" - that's a loaded assumption. It also ignores the base difficulty increase in story over the years in favour of demeaning people "who aren't getting better". Not everyone is on a mission to self-improve their gaming skills. Not everyone is playing this game looking for super challenging content in story modes. STORY modes. Why should the content be made harder for us? Just because you haven't found it challenging enough? Do you even understand the argument you're making, sir?You're making the assumption that the people who "can't get worse" are some top-level elite players. They could be people who think the current content has the right mix of story and challenge. By making the content easier you're lessening the experience for those people.

I've said it before -- if you want to see the story of GW2 without playing the game as it is... go watch some Let's Plays.

[Illurim.6059]

@Chickenooble.5014 said:Fun fact: I find WvW and SPvP very challenging. I don't have the quickness to compete with everyone else in PvP environments and I don't know which classes have which abilities, so I can't effectively fight anyone in the content because I don't know what to expect. I'm terrible at PvP. I get in and try learning but I'm still bad.

I don't think WvW or SPvP should be made easier for me though. I realize I'm just bad at it... and that's fine. I just go play other games. When I find a game that I'm terrible at -- Dark Souls, Donkey Kong Country on Wii U, or any fighting game -- I just don't play them. They're too hard for me. I recognize that and that's fine.

So, you give up. Cool. I keep trying. And it's okay to discuss making content that should be the most accessible ...the...most...accessible. You don't have to get defensive and decide the only thing I should be doing is throwing my bat and ball in the crate and going home. And you certainly don't get to decide that I should simply quit because that's what you do.

[Chickenooble.5014]

@Illurim.6059 said:

@Chickenooble.5014 said:Fun fact: I find WvW and SPvP very challenging. I don't have the quickness to compete with everyone else in PvP environments and I don't know which classes have which abilities, so I can't effectively fight anyone in the content because I don't know what to expect. I'm terrible at PvP. I get in and try learning but I'm still bad.

I don't think WvW or SPvP should be made easier for me though. I realize I'm just bad at it... and that's fine. I just go play other games. When I find a game that I'm terrible at -- Dark Souls, Donkey Kong Country on Wii U, or any fighting game -- I just don't play them. They're too hard for me. I recognize that and that's fine.

So, you give up. Cool. I keep trying. And it's okay to discuss making content that should be the most accessible ...the...most...accessible. You don't have to get defensive and decide the only thing I should be doing is throwing my bat and ball in the crate and going home. And you certainly don't get to decide that I should simply quit because that's what you do.No, but who are you to decide that the content should be so trivially easy that even the lowest skill player should be able to faceroll over it? I mean, after all, making the content trivial to where literally anyone could beat it without any difficulty would be ...the ...most ...accessible. And apparently, you want to have a conversation about making the content most accessible... so, no, I'm going to fight that notion.

[pah.4931]

Any (non) mmo game in the past 20 years worth it's salt usually has difficulty levels that the player chooses. Why Anet has not done this with GW2 is beyond me. Would it really be THAT hard? Just tuning damage and health would be enough to let players opt into harder story modes -- and then give 1 gold for completing it on hard mode or something.

Story progression in a game that's supposed to "cater" to so many types of players should never be hard. Especially in a game that usually isn't "hard" ... than it is frustrating (i.e. you don't know why you died in most cases, mechanics are buggy as hell, fights are long with very few interesting mechanics).

[Illurim.6059]

@Chickenooble.5014 said:

@Illurim.6059 said:

@Chickenooble.5014 said:

@Illurim.6059 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

Aren't you the bloke that said it was easy? That you did it first go, no deaths? You said:

"I didnt find the Scruffy fight to be particularly difficult, but it was annoying."

So, you're exactly the type of person I was referring to being unable to have a discussion with. One the one hand you tell us you weren't challenged and the fight wasn't difficult. On the other, you're telling me it's meant to be challenging. So, either you're SO GREAT that you didn't notice the challenge, OR your argument is wildly inconsistent. Thus, "the type of person who won't understand my point of view and can't accept it's valid".

Until you can relegate the inconsistencies in your own logic (is it challenging or not?) there's no discussion to be had because the only person being challenged is me, between the two of us, and you're saying I should be. You don't get to decide that for me. I do. And if you WEREN'T challenged, then making it easier for me so I'm NOT challenged seems pretty fair, right?No, because it's not about being "fair" - you can always get better. Some people can't get worse. By making content easier for people who can't play the game right then the experience is going to be lessened for everyone else. Why should the content be made easier for you?

I simply don't understand this argument. If some people can't get worse, they probably already find it easy, so there's no challenge for those people. You're assuming people who find the story challenging "can't play the game right" - that's a loaded assumption. It also ignores the base difficulty increase in story over the years in favour of demeaning people "who aren't getting better". Not everyone is on a mission to self-improve their gaming skills. Not everyone is playing this game looking for super challenging content in story modes. STORY modes. Why should the content be made harder for us? Just because you haven't found it challenging enough? Do you even understand the argument you're making, sir?You're making the assumption that the people who "can't get worse" are some top-level elite players. They could be people who think the current content has the right mix of story and challenge. By making the content easier you're lessening the experience for those people.

I've said it before -- if you want to see the story of GW2 without playing the game as it is... go watch some Let's Plays.

Granted, I was inferring from your point and thus likely making an assumption based on what you said. Your point seems to be centered around a set of people who are 'average' players (or what you consider to be 'average' and let's face it, you're also making some assumptions in that, too) and not wanting their experience to be worsened by trivialising content. I agree. I don't want anyone's experience to be worsened. And I don't want the content to be trivial. I want to be highly accessible and enjoyable for everyone.

I look at game modes like this (in order of easy to difficult content):Open world eventsStoryOpen world map metasFractalsRaids

Maybe there's some things I've forgotten or left out that are important - happy for you to expand on that, be interesting to see your perspective.

[Nilson.9865]

Hard? But you can do story mission with 4 other guys. Find somebody in LFG. No problems with boss difficulty.

[Haishao.6851]

I think the difficulty in story is fine as it is now.I wouldn't mind if it was made a little bit harder, but not with gimmicks. I prefer fighting the boss than the room.

Scruffy would have been nice if the invulnerability phase was reduced to a single one and put at the very end of the fight. They could have made scruffy hit harder and take a bit more damage to make the fight shorter.

Warden Amala was fun. I liked fighting a dervish boss who could switch into every avatars.

Branded Wyvern was just a low tier introductory boss so there's nothing really to say about it.

[Illurim.6059]

@Evolute.6239 said:

@Illurim.6059 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

Aren't you the bloke that said it was easy? That you did it first go, no deaths? You said:

"I didnt find the Scruffy fight to be particularly difficult, but it was annoying."

So, you're exactly the type of person I was referring to being unable to have a discussion with. One the one hand you tell us you weren't challenged and the fight wasn't difficult. On the other, you're telling me it's meant to be challenging. So, either you're SO GREAT that you didn't notice the challenge, OR your argument is wildly inconsistent. Thus, "the type of person who won't understand my point of view and can't accept it's valid".

Until you can relegate the inconsistencies in your own logic (is it challenging or not?) there's no discussion to be had because the only person being challenged is me, between the two of us, and you're saying I should be. You don't get to decide that for me. I do. And if you WEREN'T challenged, then making it easier for me so I'm NOT challenged seems pretty fair, right?

No, you're the type of person it's impossible to have a discussion with. You want an easy fight nerfed to become easier because you refuse to adapt, to change anything. To be literally given the rewards for a game by showing up.

Go play Hello Kitty Online if you want guaranteed satisfaction with no effort. I mean that in the most non-trolly way possible. I think some WoW LFG fights have more personal responsibility than Scruffy.

Putting words in my mouth so you can flame me is about the best way to prove my point. Thank you.

[Jwake.7013]

Got me wondering how many people who are asking the story to become easier even tried a different build or asked a friend or guildies to join them (cause you know... mmo)? I am not that great a player with my reaction speed being pretty terrible, but I do understand builds decently enough. While I may die once or twice during a boss fight normally, I don't see that as a big deal and even then I never think "it's too hard cause I died once before killing him." I just see it as part of the fight and knowing that I'm not doing rotations all that great.

[Malediktus.9250]

@Nikal.4921 said:This is story content. To tell a story, not prepare you for raids. I am thoroughly discouraged by the difficulty of story bosses and so hardly bother with them. I'd like to get the story line, so it's a real disappointment.Would watch a movie if I wanted to watch a movie.

[Erasculio.2914]

@Jwake.7013 said:Got me wondering how many people who are asking the story to become easier even tried a different build or asked a friend or guildies to join them (cause you know... mmo)?

The real issue is that we cannot see how those saying the game is too hard are playing... And that they aren't asking for help either, they want the game to become easier instead. It's hard to figure out if they aren't just applying the same reasoning to the game - instead of trying to change themselves (their traits, skills, weapons, etc), they are just asking the game to become easier.

[TheUndefined.1720]

I think this thread alone shows that a difficulty option for story modes would be pretty appreciated by the player community. There are a good number of players asking for an easier option, and a good number asking for a harder option, while still yet a good number of people asking for it not to be changed - easy, normal, hard modes could be a really neat idea.

It'd be an easy way also to introduce 'more' content and stretch these living stories out to actually last longer than an evening. Add some achievements, titles, rewards to the different modes. I'm not saying make a dungeon, the harder difficulty shouldn't replace dungeon / raid content - just something fun a couple people could do together.

In any case, thanks for the discussion so far. It's been interesting to see people's points of views. :)

[Menadena.7482]

I liked the suggestion for a story mode (or a difficulty setting). Doing story mode you would only get whatever unlocks (like a new map) while things like treasure and keys would only be for higher difficulties.

[Illurim.6059]

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@Jwake.7013 said:Got me wondering how many people who are asking the story to become easier even tried a different build or asked a friend or guildies to join them (cause you know... mmo)?

The real issue is that we cannot see how those saying the game is too hard are playing... And that they aren't asking for help either, they want the game to become easier instead. It's hard to figure out if they aren't just applying the same reasoning to the game - instead of trying to change themselves (their traits, skills, weapons, etc), they are just asking the game to become easier.

Well, let me ask you - if a player can defeat open world meta champ bosses solo (the events on Ember Bay map for example, specifically that kraken boss near the skritt camp event) as a Mirage Mesmer pretty easily, would that be sufficient enough skill to assess if the story content should be also easy enough?

If there's a better 'test case' that would help you understand skill, I'm happy to let you know if I've done it/can do it solo. Regardless, the Ember Bay champ meta events are all pretty easy for me, but story isn't.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@Haishao.6851 said:I think the difficulty in story is fine as it is now.I wouldn't mind if it was made a little bit harder, but not with gimmicks. I prefer fighting the boss than the room.

Scruffy would have been nice if the invulnerability phase was reduced to a single one and put at the very end of the fight. They could have made scruffy hit harder and take a bit more damage to make the fight shorter.

I've been finding the story to be undoable, but the difficulty is in actually getting the darned chapters to complete without a DC. So, I have not done this fight. I'm still slogging through the PoF story when i feel like beating my head against a wall. However, based on the descriptions in this fight, I believe my position would be like Haishao's. I detest gimmicks in video games. I'd rather fights be hard and fair, and not rely on some overly contrived mechanic that says nothing about skill in playing.

[Erasculio.2914]

@Illurim.6059 said:Well, let me ask you - if a player can defeat open world meta champ bosses solo (the events on Ember Bay map for example, specifically that kraken boss near the skritt camp event) as a Mirage Mesmer pretty easily, would that be sufficient enough skill to assess if the story content should be also easy enough?

Of course not.

It's not a matter of skill - it's a matter of how much willing to try people are.

Using one extreme as an example: if someone comes here and says, "I think all builds should be able to defeat all story enemies equally, with all of them taking the exact same time to defeat a boss"... Well, that would only be possible if all enemies died in a single hit.

In other hand, if someone comes here and says, "So, there's this boss that does a lot of damage and applies a lot of conditions. I'm playing with a guardian, I have changed my traits to include Honor for the extra Vitality and the heal on block, and I have changed my utility skills to Contemplation of Purity and Purging Flames. But the boss still applies conditions faster than I can cleanse them, and its poison spam is preventing me from healing myself properly, so I keep dying. I think this boss could be changed to have a longer recharge on its condition-applying attacks"... Well, then it's something else. We have someone who is trying, who has done his best to adapt to the fight, yet is having issues with a specific mechanic. Other players could tell him ways to go around it ("did you try using shouts to cleanse the conditions, since they have a shorter recharge?") or share similar experiences ("yeah, same thing happened with my revenant, I tried using Ventari's tablet but moving around all the time made it useless"), so ArenaNet eventually sees a lot of people talking about one specific issue and decides to modify it.

[Cyndercat.7615]

TBH im sick and tired of this discussion. IF you are unwilling to adapt your build and only use 1/10 of your classes skills and traits then its fine if you can only complete 1/10 of the encounters. Gw2 is generous and lets you complete way more with only 1 build. There is a reason you can swap traits and utilities for free, at any time. The story doesnt need to be made easier. The average player should have no trouble. Below average players already have multiple options to make it easier:

-grouping with a friend or up to 5 others-changing their traits and utilities-res rushing the enouter (you can literally die over and over and the boss wont heal in 99% of the story)-practice

Gw2 has never once been advertised as a interactive novel. There is always the possibility of difficulty scaling but it seems like a waste of time and money for Anet when there are already many ways a fight can be made easier by the player using the tools I listed above which are already ingame.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

Difficult to fight? Sure. But that fight with Scruffy was both needlessly long, but also ultimately completely pointless since at the end we don't actually defeat the thing. We just have to outlast the two minutes of him blowing his load of weapons and then miraculously spitting the Mary Sue out, once again keeping her from real harm by some 1960s Batman levels of luck. Aside from the fact that if Scruffy was the powerful in the first place she should have held her own just fine while fighting against zombie inquests and Joko, there is the inherent problem that one second Scruffy is this technologically hyper advanced golem that surpasses anything else coming out of Rata Sum, and the next minute some random inquest minions are able to completely over ride it as if it were just a toy.

Its sloppy writing and designed to make people rage quit if they went into it solo on either the wrong class or build or both.

I've flatly avoided going back to the map to even do anything else there because of that last fight because it annoyed me that much.

[marelooke.9708]

Most of the bossfights since PoF have been needlessly annoying, mostly because they drag the fight out forever and/or have obtuse mechanics. Having it at the end of an already long instance only makes matters worse since quitting means you get to redo the entire chore before the boss as well.

I've actually started dreading instanced story steps. I expect them to be unenjoyable chores that might very well take up quite a bit more time than I'm actually willing to spend on them (which explains why I've only just completed the final LS4e1, I had actively been putting it off). The fact that the way the story is told has been steadily deteriorating doesn't help any either (having a billion things going on that I need to pay attention to while the companions are yapping is horrendously annoying, please for the love of Dwayna, stop doing that. I want to enjoy the story, thank you very much. I wish we could go back to the dialogue style from PS, and if that fails at least the way LS2 handled it (or a combination). Nowadays I have to read most of what was said after the fact in the chat log, assuming it's even there)

And no, I don't necessarily mind hard bosses (I was raiding Sunwell Plateau when it was "current"), that's what I raid for, I prefer not to have them in my story instances (though "annoying" is probably more appropriate than "hard" anyway as far as story bosses are concerned).

[Cuddy.6247]

Difficulty seems okay but the lengths are getting tedious for story. Or there's too much shit going on. I just took my character's observations in the first episode for granted about Aurene's involvement, because I sure didn't have time to get a look at her until way later. Like you also get so overwhelmed with the fighting it's easy to miss that Strange Figure in the last episode. I don't think they should have kept her around long, but long enough to clue in people who aren't all that active anymore.

[Illurim.6059]

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@Illurim.6059 said:Well, let me ask you - if a player can defeat open world meta champ bosses solo (the events on Ember Bay map for example, specifically that kraken boss near the skritt camp event) as a Mirage Mesmer pretty easily, would that be sufficient enough skill to assess if the story content should be also easy enough?

Of course not.

It's not a matter of skill - it's a matter of how much willing to try people are.

Using one extreme as an example: if someone comes here and says, "I think all builds should be able to defeat all story enemies equally, with all of them taking the exact same time to defeat a boss"... Well, that would only be possible if all enemies died in a single hit.

In other hand, if someone comes here and says, "So, there's this boss that does a lot of damage and applies a lot of conditions. I'm playing with a guardian, I have changed my traits to include Honor for the extra Vitality and the heal on block, and I have changed my utility skills to Contemplation of Purity and Purging Flames. But the boss still applies conditions faster than I can cleanse them, and its poison spam is preventing me from healing myself properly, so I keep dying. I think this boss could be changed to have a longer recharge on its condition-applying attacks"... Well, then it's something else. We have someone who is trying, who has done his best to adapt to the fight, yet is having issues with a specific mechanic. Other players could tell him ways to go around it ("did you try using shouts to cleanse the conditions, since they have a shorter recharge?") or share similar experiences ("yeah, same thing happened with my revenant, I tried using Ventari's tablet but moving around all the time made it useless"), so ArenaNet eventually sees a lot of people talking about one specific issue and decides to modify it.

So, we might see content a bit differently. You seem to consider each individual encounter something that you adjust for with your build (given your example). When it comes to open world PVE, though, if you ask in any /map or on the forums about an 'open world' build or 'story' build, most people will say (rightfully so in my opinion, but maybe not in your's) - it doesn't really matter what build you use. Open world is so easy and there's so much help it doesn't matter outside of a few specific situations such as HoT content being more group-oriented, yada yada yada. I see the story on the same level - build shouldn't matter. It's story. You seem to think it should matter in each various story situation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I understand from your post. I don't share that view, but I'm not going to argue with it because I don't see anything wrong with it. It's completely fine.

What I don't understand is why you put together that contrived example when I already started one. You want me to list out my traits, my skills, my rotation, etc for you? If that's what you think is required to 'help' people and 'make content accessible' (especially given my previous comment re: pve builds that no one really cares about and certainly you can't find specifics on outside raids or fractals), I literally do not understand why you wasted the time. You've added nothing to the discussion beyond 'well unless you can prove to me you are capable, then there's nothing really to talk about'. That's a big leap. And a bit of a jerk move.

You seem very attached to qualifying people's skill in your own eyes before being willing to engage in a dsicussion about content difficulty. What I was trying to do is get people to discuss comparative content with my example - in a general way. If you can do X, should you be able to do Y? If "insert general scenario" is roughly equivalent or should be roughly equivalent in terms of game experience/process, should this other "insert general scenario" be comparable?

You seem to want to get into the minutia, which I don't see really serves a purpose at all (beyond very specific stuff, which is pretty obvious).

[Cerioth.7062]

@Illurim.6059 said:From the comments, it seems like there's two types of people - those who just want to enjoy the story, relax, have fun, unwind, listen to the funny one liners and be carried along by it. That's me. Story is story and it should be interesting and engaging and fun. There's plenty of OTHER places in the game to create difficulty and challenge for those seeking it.

Then there's those types that seem to derive some kind of self-worth/validation from being able to tell everyone how easy it is for them and by extension how sub-par people who find it challenging are. There's no discussion available with those people, really, because they won't admit, and can't see, that other people don't actually care about being challenged in a game, because it's a game. Some of us don't sit there and go OH YEAH I BEAT THAT BOSS I'M THE BEST I ROCK. We just beat it and go 'ooooh look at that cool ceiling, that's really well done'. People who derive validation from 'beating' something in a game can't comprehend how un-relatable that is to someone who just cares about the story being interesting and fun. They can't understand why when someone says to me "The scruff fight is easy, I beat it in one go" that I literally laugh and think to myself "is that your major accomplishment for today?". Some of us are so busy with our actual lives and getting mean from them, the validation we all crave, that when we sit down at a game like GW2 and run the STORY to RELAX and UNWIND we just want to enjoy it.

So, realistically, nothing will come of this discussion because those who don't care for challenge in story won't be able to get those who derive their validation from challenge to understand our point of view, much less agree with it or think it's valid to have. ANet seems to agree with those folks, so for now, it's crappy, over-mechaniccy 'raid'-like story, which is boring and not worth the short time some of us have to play. I'd rather spend an hour in WvW than sit alone in a story instance dying to unnecessary mechanics just so I can keep up with the main story of the game.

The sad thing, the story quality (portrayl, dialogue, pacing) suffers tremendously in the current environment. ANet have a wonderful story arc and I'm very interested in it, but the story instances are so off kilter in pacing/energy/quality/detail that it feels like the story meeting went like "what's our arc this season? yeah good idea, let's do that. Ok what are the details? nah kitten detials, let's just make every fight super hard so we don't have to worry, they won't even realise there's no actual story and just an idea".

The only part of the story I remember well is my conversation with Caithe when I was investigating the bloodstone fen explosion (from LS3). The dialogue was great, the writing and the way the scene was put together, the pacing of the dialogue in the final fight and the joke on timing, were fantastic. Memorable. Beautifully done. What do I remember from LS4? No dialogue. No good writing. Nothing beautiful to speak of. It's just boring and annoying and so I'm literally waiting until it's nerfed before I even bother with it, because it's so poorly presented it feels like it was done by a completely different team.

Sorry but I have to respond to this. You just generalized the people in two categories - which, first of all - is very narrowminded and not constructive.

You are looking at a guy who is compassionate and enthustiastic about the story and lore. I find the story instances relaxing. I get thrilled and fully into playing the story , whether it is me listening to a dialogue and immersing myself to the wonderful voice acting or me beating up a bad guy and empathizing with the Commander. I do not find the boss fights too hard or boring. Some of the fights are not super easy either - pre-nerf Eater of Souls, the Warbeast and Mordremoth being good examples. However, I dont think the Scruffy fight was anywhere near the difficulty of those encounters. Of course different players might perceive what is difficult in many ways. I think the flashy effects and big telegraphs freak out people more and make it seem harder than it truly is. The encounters dont feel long to me either but this could be because I'm running a raid set up.I dont find that I'm doing the story to stroke my ego or boast with my vicotires. I frankly dont care how well or badly I perform at it, I just want to enjoy the content - and I do. I am sorry some of you people dont feel the same way and that you struggle. But the story is absolutely doable by everyone and it does not require any major changes.