Jump to content
  • Sign Up

How to balance every single thing that's bad on Engineer [PvP]


Chaith.8256

Recommended Posts

@MrForz.1953 said:

@Haseno.6417 said:For turrets id recommend a major trait in the inventions line which allows you to wear a Turrent on your back like a kit but only one at a time.

Summoning a 2nd turret detonates the one on your back and equips the new one.

Equipping a kit while a turret is on your back grants you stability and detonates the turret on your back.

I swear I heard that somewhere. Maybe talking with one of my friends that plays Path of Exile. In any case it did make me wonder if such a thing could ever happen here too.

If something similar to that completely replaced "Experimental Turrets", the master tier trait that gives boons every 10s, I wouldn't complain, I find it pretty bland.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 464
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@Chaith.8256 said:

  • Out of the 9 Holosmith major traits they're all represented somewhere in the game except Crystal Configuration: Storm. WvW players are using traits including Light Density Amplifier, Prismatic Converter, Crystal Configuration: Zephyr for running Yaks. PvE players are using Solar Focusing Lens, Photonic Blasting Module.

You might even be able to remove the caveat. Crystal Configuration: Storm isn't being used in high-end PvE because it trades damage for range and that's generally a bad trade in high-end play, but it does see use in more casual PvE such as open world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lunateric.3708 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Eng is the last class that should EVER be buffed in pvp.

Please elaborate because right now the leaderboard for ranked PvP is almost completely dominated by things that aren't engi.

No sense using an argument with reason, just a public service announcement:

Engineer =/= Holosmith

This thread is a no power creep zone, that means not raising the one current strong build past its current limit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

New suggestion:

Inversion Enzyme: Currently: Elixir gun abilities that remove conditions now convert them to boons instead. New: Instead, when removing conditions by throwing or consuming Elixirs, convert those conditions removed into .75s of resistance.

This will be a condi burst mitigation alternative to Low Health S' focus fire mitigation, and Backpack Regenerator's sustain.

With this trait, running an elixir heavy build and timing your Elixirs will allow you to mitigate condition bursts just long enough to go through the cleansing process of .5s cast times to toss and consume Elixirs (and doing little else.)

An alternative would be to make this affect elixir gun but with fumigate it might be better than intended, and won't help full elixir builds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Suggestion for lols:

I got on the subject about how Rangers get to actively use their class mechanic buttons while downed (Pet attack, Pet special ability, Pet swap), and I thought it'd be hilarious if Engineer had a Grandmaster trait in Tools to allow them to do the same.

Kinetic Battery - REMOVED, and we bring back old trait "Always Prepared."

New: Always Prepared, all of your toolbelt skills are recharged & available to be used while in the downed state. 90s CD

You could:

  • Use Med Kit's Bandage Self toolkit ability to assist in reviving yourself
  • Use Elixir R's toss before dying, and then once again after going down to assist in Reviving yourself
  • Use Elixir U's toss to block projectiles
  • Use Elixir S's toss to stealth yourself and avoid being stomped
  • Use A.E.D's 'Static Shock', Bomb Kit's 'Big Ol' Bomb', Personal Battering Ram's 'Launch PBR' to interrupt people finishing you
  • Use Grenade Kit's Grenade Barrage, Rocket Turret's Rocket, Flamethrower's Incendiary Ammo, to nuke your would be killer

I think it'd be hilarious and certainly would make me enjoy core Explosives Engineer with Grenades or Flamethrower, Elixir S and Elixir R.

Seriously, endless hours of entertainment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chaith.8256 said:Suggestion for lols:

I got on the subject about how Rangers get to actively use their class mechanic buttons while downed (Pet attack, Pet special ability, Pet swap), and I thought it'd be hilarious if Engineer had a Grandmaster trait in Tools to allow them to do the same.

Kinetic Battery - REMOVED, and we bring back old trait "Always Prepared."

New: Always Prepared, all of your toolbelt skills are recharged & available to be used while in the downed state. 90s CD

You could:

  • Use Med Kit's Bandage Self toolkit ability to assist in reviving yourself
  • Use Elixir R's toss before dying, and then once again after going down to assist in Reviving yourself
  • Use Elixir U's toss to block projectiles
  • Use Elixir S's toss to stealth yourself and avoid being stomped
  • Use A.E.D's 'Static Shock', Bomb Kit's 'Big Ol' Bomb', Personal Battering Ram's 'Launch PBR' to interrupt people finishing you
  • Use Grenade Kit's Grenade Barrage, Rocket Turret's Rocket, Flamethrower's Incendiary Ammo, to nuke your would be killer

I think it'd be hilarious and certainly would make me enjoy core Explosives Engineer with Grenades or Flamethrower, Elixir S and Elixir R.

Seriously, endless hours of entertainment.

You cant compare ranger and engi mechanic lol..Ranger should be allowed to use their (buggy) mechanic whenever they want as its ai (only class with this buggy kind) something core and holo dont have. As engis, we have way more control over our mechanic than rangers ever will. Although i could see function gyro being able to self ress you which could help scrapper quite a bit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chaith.8256 said:

It's not a comparison as I'm not suggesting it become baseline but rather a grandmaster trait. :astonished: :confounded: :expressionless:

It would still be too strong no matter how/ where you put it. ??. Also even if that happens, the meta holo build would just swap out explosives for tools too which wouldnt change a thing regarding diversity

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Coolguy.8702 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

It's not a comparison as I'm not suggesting it become baseline but rather a grandmaster trait. :astonished: :confounded: :expressionless:

It would still be too strong no matter how/ where you put it. ??. Also even if that happens, the meta holo build would just swap out explosives for tools too which wouldnt change a thing regarding diversity

This is why we can't suggest mediocre joke traits, somebody will take em seriously and think it'll dominate the game. I didn't add this to the thread btw

Instead of hopefully ressing yourself once every 90s with Elixir R, just run traited Rocket Boots and avoid dying multiple times a game. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chaith.8256 said:

This is why we can't suggest mediocre joke traits, somebody will take em seriously and think it'll dominate the game. I didn't add this to the thread btw

Instead of hopefully ressing yourself once every 90s with Elixir R, just run traited Rocket Boots and avoid dying multiple times a game. :lol:

Elixir Rs cd is 72s, unless you dont run Alchemy which is never since its mandatory for engi. Cant you just toss elixir r before you get downed? It works everytime for me. Also didnt you ask for toss elixir r to have a reduced and only remove condis without the self ress, I dont think this would matter to you lol.

If engi gets to have a trait that lets them use their mechanics while in downstate, then the other 7 proffesions should have it too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Coolguy.8702 said:Elixir Rs cd is 72s, unless you dont run Alchemy which is never since its mandatory for engi. Cant you just toss elixir r before you get downed? It works everytime for me. Also didnt you ask for toss elixir r to have a reduced and only remove condis without the self ress, I dont think this would matter to you lol.

If engi gets to have a trait that lets them use their mechanics while in downstate, then the other 7 proffesions should have it too.

Now you've thought of an idea too, every profession now gets a grandmaster trait for using Fskill class mechanics in downed state:

  • Eles can switch attunements,
  • Mesmers can shatter without clones,
  • Necro can enter shroud and sit there,
  • Rev can switch legends

Wicked useful traits :+1:

Edit: Rallying yourself every 90s with double elixir R - best case scenario - is what the build would offer. You can already use a single Elixir R. Compared with how impactful constant gadgeteer Rocket Boots or dodge roll nukes & eGun, it's not a game breaker, as you'll be going down way more often and cant survive teamfight as well or 1v1 at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chaith.8256 said::Edit: Rallying yourself every 90s with double elixir R - best case scenario - is what the build would offer. You can already use a single Elixir R. Compared with how impactful constant gadgeteer Rocket Boots or dodge roll nukes & eGun, it's not a game breaker, as you'll be going down way more often and cant survive teamfight as well or 1v1 at all.

How would double elixir r work? Even ranger when their in downstate their mechanics still shares the same cd when they're up. I could see that trait making engi being like power nec downstate long ago, when they could easily down someone at full hp with just a few buttons.

Now that i think about it, if you really want core engi to have good diversity then just make any trait line that isnt alchemy, tools or explosives really good, kinda like what they did to warrior strength line. Then there'd be a real tradeoff between holo and core engi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Coolguy.8702Now that i think about it, if you really want core engi to have good diversity then just make any trait line that isnt alchemy, tools or explosives really good, kinda like what they did to warrior strength line. Then there'd be a real tradeoff between holo and core engi

After insisting core Engi is good forever, you're catching on, yeah. Look at my changes to Firearms and inventions. With my proposed changes to Inventions, either bombs or Turrets would give some real survivability to core Engi, combined with Alchemy. Firearms would give some real punch combined with explosives. All my proposals are set up so core Engi can benefit most optimally.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

New Proposal: Orbital command

2.) Orbital Command: Currently: when striking enemies below 50%, cast a lesser orbital strike.New: In addition to its current effects, Your Orbital Strikes & Mortar shots deal 2.5% more damage for every 50 distance between you and the target location when cast.

Will cause players to actually use mortar as intended, and reward them better for doing so. No more glorified bomb field kit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My opinion for bad/underused traits:

Explosives:Short fuse: explosion time for bombs is instant. this would make bombs pvp viable again without hurting pveOrbital command: feels too weak IMO, lower the ICD to 10 sec.

Inventions:Experimental turrets: in additon to its current effect also lower the CD of turrets by 20%.Soothing detonation: blast and leap finisheres trigger this effect.Advanced turrets: damage reduced by 50%, the reflection field follows the charakter and not bound to the turret.Medical dispersion field: buff to 30%

Alchemy:Health insurance: before this trait could be used it needs an overhaul to med kit...Inversion enzyme: boon corruption meta makes this trait to a downgrade. Rework it to: cleansing effects done with EG are doubled.Backpack regenerator: works while in PF, and also works 10 sec after switching to a weapon like it was in vanilla.Stimulant supplier: in addition to its current effect, also gives 3 sec of resistance.Iron blooded: buffed to 3%

Tools:Kinetic battery: feels a bit weak, buff it to 4 stacks to trigger.

Scrapper:Shocking speed: never used this trait, remove this. New one: trait that reduce gyro CDs by 20%Expert examination: also never used. new trigger effect: at critical hit, 10 sec ICD

Holosmith:Crystal configuration storm: feels like a downgrade overall. remove this, and replace it with a damage upgrade to photon blitz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@mov.1246 said:My opinion for bad/underused traits:

Explosives:Short fuse: explosion time for bombs is instant. this would make bombs pvp viable again without hurting pveOrbital command: feels too weak IMO, lower the ICD to 10 sec.

Inventions:Experimental turrets: in additon to its current effect also lower the CD of turrets by 20%.Soothing detonation: blast and leap finisheres trigger this effect.Advanced turrets: damage reduced by 50%, the reflection field follows the charakter and not bound to the turret.Medical dispersion field: buff to 30%

Alchemy:Health insurance: before this trait could be used it needs an overhaul to med kit...Inversion enzyme: boon corruption meta makes this trait to a downgrade. Rework it to: cleansing effects done with EG are doubled.Backpack regenerator: works while in PF, and also works 10 sec after switching to a weapon like it was in vanilla.Stimulant supplier: in addition to its current effect, also gives 3 sec of resistance.Iron blooded: buffed to 3%

Tools:Kinetic battery: feels a bit weak, buff it to 4 stacks to trigger.

Scrapper:Shocking speed: never used this trait, remove this. New one: trait that reduce gyro CDs by 20%Expert examination: also never used. new trigger effect: at critical hit, 10 sec ICD

Holosmith:Crystal configuration storm: feels like a downgrade overall. remove this, and replace it with a damage upgrade to photon blitz

All helpful, maybe a path for Engi to be decent metabattle build. You missed Firearms though. Also some utilities probably need to be changed for it to work as well.

Maybe a Rifle Engi with:

  • Utilities: Healing Turret, Grenade, Bomb, Elixir S, Supply Crate.
  • Traits: Explosives: Grenadier, Short Fuse, Shrapnel, Inventions: Automated Medical Response, Experimental Turrets, Bunker Down. Alchemy: Protection Injection, Backpack Regenerator, Stimulant Supplier.
  • Misc: Traveler Rune, Wizard Amulet, Cleansing & Courage.

You'd have a 12s CD on Healing Turret when picked up, that'd give you 4s resistance, and have decent sustain and Condi & Power damage.

But I dunno about the whole dependence on Healing Turret even more. :anguished: Reducing turret cooldown may not be the best path.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Haseno.6417 said:For turrets id recommend a major trait in the inventions line which allows you to wear a Turrent on your back like a kit but only one at a time.

Summoning a 2nd turret detonates the one on your back and equips the new one.

Equipping a kit while a turret is on your back grants you stability and detonates the turret on your back.

Seems cool but kinda random! I dunno how much effort ArenaNet will put into balancing something like turrets.

Random isnt necessarily bad. The problem with core engi is that the skills dont synergize. Stationary PVP combat using turrets isnt sensible and tower/keep humping doesnt work with all the ranged AOE.

Turrets are a complete no go in 90% of pvp situations.

At least with this turret backpack turrets have a balanced form of mobility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chaith.8256 said:

After insisting core Engi is good forever, you're catching on, yeah. Look at my changes to Firearms and inventions. With my proposed changes to Inventions, either bombs or Turrets would give some real survivability to core Engi, combined with Alchemy. Firearms would give some real punch combined with explosives. All my proposals are set up so core Engi can benefit most optimally.

You misinterpreted me there, I said core engi would be fine if anet actually balanced the damn game and nerf all other specs,I only suggested buffs cause i figured its the easy way out and Anet most likely wont nerf everything (or anything seeing how scourge was left untouched the last balance patch)

Anyways, the balance patch is next tuesday and apparently anet said the balance team spends more time looking at profession forums then anything else so we'll see if some of these changes go through

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chaith.8256 said:After insisting core Engi is good forever, you're catching on, yeah.

@Coolguy.8702 said:You misinterpreted me there, I said core engi would be fine if anet actually balanced the kitten game and nerf
all other specs.

Yet agreeing now that for whatever reason, Engi needs buffs. It's just true, so I'm glad you agree now. The goal posts for the 'balanced' tier have moved and to be balanced, Core Engi needs buffs. It was never a matter of just nerfing the few broken PoF specs, as there are multiple core , HoT, and PoF builds all on a level higher than Engi.

So which is it, nerf all other specs or buff core Engi & other trashcans? Seems like you're now catching on to the better way. I don't think I misinterpreted, you just understand how it should work now.

Even so, in your Coolguy quotes from before you don't talk about nerfing all other specs, more just like top 4 PoF: Holo, Scourge, Mirage, Spellbreaker. I'm just saying, it was never enough to nerf top 4 PoF specs to make Engi good, and it was never a great plan to nerf all other specs when we can easily adjust a few bad and good ones to join a LOT of "Great" rated specs.

@Coolguy.8702 said:No more buffs please, core engi is already pretty good

@Coolguy.8702 said:Ive played core engi in pvp, and i had no issues with any of those builds besides spellbreaker and chrono. Core engi is perfectly fine and balanced

@Coolguy.8702 said:Nice try kid but your the one whos asking for buffs, im not a victim since i feel engi is in a great spot atm where its high risk/high reward.

@Coolguy.8702 said:I never said engi was underpowered (you did tho lmao) I think its the most balanced class in the game atm which is why I said all your buffs were pointless and would just > add more powercreep to the game.

@Coolguy.8702 said:i dunno if you're new to engi but ive won plenty this season playing a classic static discharge boon spam build, less damage then holo but more sustain as it should be

@Coolguy.8702 said:Point is, core engi is fine and just as good as the other builds, tho for some reason he doesnt want to admit it, holo and the op specs (like scourge snd mirage), just need to > be toned down.

@Coolguy.8702 said:Once agai, core engi is fine, Period.

@Coolguy.8702 said:Engi has tons of build diversity man, you just gotta figure it out

@Coolguy.8702 said:What im trying to get of this is convincing you that core engi is perfectly fine which you should already know.

Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine Engi is fine

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...