Upcoming Wintersday Balance Update — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Upcoming Wintersday Balance Update

Wintersday is coming fellow Tyrians and, during the recent AMA, I made reference to a small balance update and I wished to follow-up to let you know that we're aiming to release that update next Tuesday, 12/12.


We've heard your frustrations with the burstiness of conditions invalidating power builds across game modes (though for differing reasons in each). Conditions have always been intended as a way to achieve strong sustained damage once it has ramped up.

This small update has primary two foci:

  • Pushing damaging burst condition toward ramping, sustained damage. This should create more opportunities for counterplay, but also feel satisfying to keep conditions rolling once you’ve ramped them up.
    - i.e. We’re tuning some skills that apply damaging conditions so that they apply less stacks up front, but last for longer. In total duration they’re almost the same before and after.
    - e.g. Purging Flames: Burning has been adjusted from 3 stacks for 5 seconds to 2 stacks for 8 seconds.

  • Re-vamping several passive vulnerability traits to offer more distinct opportunities or create synergy with other traits (rather than being standalone). At small amounts vulnerability doesn’t feel good and adding more vulnerability to something that is capped on it has little value. These changes will offer chances to spike up vulnerability when it is ebbing or encourage new build styles.
    - e.g. Mutilate Defenses: This trait has been reworked and renamed to "Expose Defenses". This trait now causes your first attack when entering combat to inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds. This ability refreshes whenever you use an elite skill.

As always, we’ll be looking for your feedback once you have had a chance to play with the upcoming changes. We’ll start a post here after December 12th to hear your thoughts, so please prepare your most constructive feedback.

See you in the lands!

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Comments

  • These are some good changes indeed. especially the first one with the condis is a great idea. A good way to nerf the condi dmg. The issue was that till you cleanse the conditions you had , you already received big amount of damage . Now at least you will have the time to react and now have dozens of stacks on you . GREAT idea guys.

  • arawulf.5210arawulf.5210 Member
    edited December 6, 2017
    • e.g. Purging Flames: Burning has been adjusted from 3 stacks for 5 seconds to 2 stacks for 8 seconds.

    Besides being less bursty for PvP, can this be understood to be a DPS increase for fractals and raids for condi builds? I suppose it depends on the specific encounter. Overall, I'm trying to figure out if I should be happy about this or concerned (play Firebrand condi but don't PvP often)

  • I'd like the passives I have (reaper) to actually be utilized in DS.

  • Of course I don't know the full balance changes so I could be mistaken, but wouldn't the proposed chage to Mutilate Defenses destroy the synergy it already has with the other Devastation traits (namely Targeted Destruction and Focused Siphoning) especially in AoE situations?

  • SloRules.3560SloRules.3560 Member ✭✭✭

    I have to agree with people that said that the amount of different conditions that are being puked out has to adressed too. Some classes just have to many (ehm necro).

    Also please take a look at hammer rev vs staff ele. Hammer rev just shouldn't be able to do as much damage as ele, when they are both full zerk, because it's a whole lot more survivable.

    Warrior elite and enchantment collapse need to be adressed a bit, they are just to powerfull together. I like warrior rips a whole lot more than necro corrupts, but not if they are all packed in 1 skill.

    Firebrand support is too much, no other class can compete to it, unless you want to rely on special mechanics, like jalis elite. Even ele auras aren't enough to warant using it over guardian.(guardian = stab, resistane, healing, condi cleanse, ... you just can't have all of that together)

  • XxsdgxX.8109XxsdgxX.8109 Member ✭✭✭

    Really looking forward to this! Thanks ANET!

  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭

    I just hope they finally bring just 1 viable power necro back to the game...

  • Jinks.2057Jinks.2057 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thank you for the heads up and transparency with your plan going forward. This is a breath of fresh air from previous standards over at Anet

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sarrs.4831 said:
    Honestly this is something that's needed.

    Condition classes should do more damage but there should be more ramp and time involved in doing that damage. That's the whole point of a DOT class.
    Power classes buy their instant damage by doing less damage overall.

    Except this doesn't really change anything to help that because some power builds are simply just BAD right now.

  • Rhyse.8179Rhyse.8179 Member ✭✭✭

    In other words, my favorite Reaper builds are getting nerfed again.

    Why did I buy this expac?

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    Is that new trait called "Expose Defenses" because you waste all your energy to use it and are left with nothing to defend yourself?

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Umbramare.9156 said:
    How to kill condi classes in PvE 101.

    4 burns for 5s will do the same damage as 2 burns for 10s and once fully into a rotation the dps numbers shouldn’t change too much. The real question is just how long of a ramp up time we are talking about for PvE but considering most of the highest dps builds are currently condition builds which have less stringent requirements for hitting the numbers (no scholar) then there needs to be a shift to make power worth running.

  • How about a rework to most of the Engi's base? Engi has been stuck with the same meta builds for years even with the intro of elite specs. Would love to see anything without kits as viable in fracs/raids.

  • Just a Question, Are you guys doing anything to Deadeye?

  • @Jinks.2057 said:
    Also people need to realize they can tweak raid bosses and PvE content. What this means if they lower the overall DPS in the game by 10k they can easily lower the overall raid boss HPS by certain amount to compensate.

    What they can't do is balance the player skill aspect. They can only balance the classes in terms of PvP.

    This is why ALL balance should be based on PvP since you can nerf PvE content to compensate for PvP balance changes.

    They could also do more split balancing.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vrita.7846 said:

    @Jinks.2057 said:
    Also people need to realize they can tweak raid bosses and PvE content. What this means if they lower the overall DPS in the game by 10k they can easily lower the overall raid boss HPS by certain amount to compensate.

    What they can't do is balance the player skill aspect. They can only balance the classes in terms of PvP.

    This is why ALL balance should be based on PvP since you can nerf PvE content to compensate for PvP balance changes.

    Or, you know...split the skills based off of gamemode. PvE shouldn't be nerfed because skills are OP in PvP

    Well I mean if they literally nerf all damage by 25% across all game modes at some future date (who knows maybe they don’t want dungeons to be facerolled) then they can do a relatively simple reduction to boss health numbers. It won’t make much difference, doing 10k dps to a boss with 100k health takes 10s as does doing 7.5k dps to a 75k health boss, no mechanics are skipped, the boss doesn’t get easier, it stays the same if done right.

  • anything that makes vulnerability less of a default taken-for-granted thing is cool to me

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    We've heard your frustrations with the burstiness of conditions invalidating power builds across game modes (though for differing reasons in each). Conditions have always been intended as a way to achieve strong sustained damage once it has ramped up.

    Hi Irenio, thanks for communicating with us on this matter.

    Is there anything in the works to address how conditions work in WvW? By and large we understand that condition needs to be an equally viable option in all game modes, and with that view the buffs that have happened over the years make sense for PvP and PvE, but not for WvW. I actually feel that this sort of "nerf" would be unnecessary if there was a separation of how condition stacking and intensity worked in WvW, PvP was left alone, and PvE was buffed.

    In WvW we are stuck with the PvE scaling - meaning any one person can be hit with all 1500 stacks of every condition. Yes I realize this is likely to never happen, but when you're in a group bigger than 5 the probability of being hit by 3 of any condition class at the same time is significantly high. If one squad has 5 Necromancerss (which is a small amount of Necros for a big blob to have in the current meta) they can chuck 15 stacks of bleeding and torment on 5 people with one co-ordinated skill that ticks 37.5k damage over 3 seconds. Seems reasonable for PvE (mobs with millions of health and toughness stats) and for PvP, where the likelyhood of seeing a 5 Necro team is next to nil. But in WvW that's going to hit one person for 37,500 damage assuming they stand still and don't trigger the extra torment damage.

    What I'm looking for in the long run is some sort of separation to stacking and / or intensity for WvW in specific, maybe where conditions experience a diminishing return. The more conditions a target has the less effective they become, the more stacks of a single condition the less damage it does over time and/or per tick. Also some sort of stat separation for condition builds to give up something that either contributes to their damage or contributes to their survivability, which currently they don't have to do - it's quite easy to maximize condition damage and duration while also maintaining maximum vitality and toughness. Maximum power build output (power, precision, ferocity) requires giving up significant vitality and toughness.

    The power creep of the elite specs hasn't really allowed WvW to keep up. There aren't enough, or perhaps the right, combination of stats available to produce counter play options to either a condi meta or a power meta. Being insta-killed by 3 Rev's firing a CoR off at a single target isn't any better than being hit by one co-ordinated condi bomb. There seems to be a lack of health pool to provide room for counter play in group fights specifically. Small scale fights are mostly balanced around the PvP balancing but once the groups scale up the probability of counter play significantly diminishes regardless of damage type. I don't believe this is by design, so I'm hopeful it's something Anet is working on or at least willing to work on.

    Of course it won't be easy. Nothing worthwhile ever is.

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