New fractal titles should give AP — Guild Wars 2 Forums

New fractal titles should give AP

Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited November 30, 2017 in Fractals, Dungeons, and Raids

Currently the new fractal upgrades feel very unrewarding for the amount of grind involved and the titles itself sound boring and not worth using. The title achievements also give 0 AP. I do not think I will ever be motivated to play more fractals for them unless you were awarding AP alongside the titles. 25, 50,100, 125 (for a total of 300 AP) would sound fair for the amount of time and resources involved

Comments

  • "First person to reach 35,000 and 36,000 AP." Uhuh...
    More seriously: I approve of more anet cookie points.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2017

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    No. Cannot support adding so much AP to something that costs so much.

    Sounds like it should work though, more work, more points. 15 AP for 3 legendary armors was a bit of a joke already. The exact amount of AP would of course be debateable. But considering it seems to take years of fractals, anything less than 100 would feel insulting. The good thing about this everyone can achieve it at their own pace.
    And before you think I am suggesting this because I am close to finishing, that is not the case. I would still be weeks away from being able to afford the first of the four tiers.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No, if PvP players can’t have AP for their titles even as measly as it was then insane fractal grinds don’t deserve it either.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:
    No, if PvP players can’t have AP for their titles even as measly as it was then insane fractal grinds don’t deserve it either.

    The 2 situations aren't even comparable honestly. Even though the grind required for that much currency is immense and locks the fractal titles from all but veteran fractal players, anyone can work up to and earn those titles if they want to. Ostensibly, the AP is available to everyone.

    The PvP titles were by design limited to 200 people. That is never ok to hand out AP knowing ahead of time that there will only be a small number of people in the entire game who will have a chance at acquiring it.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • @OriOri.8724 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    No, if PvP players can’t have AP for their titles even as measly as it was then insane fractal grinds don’t deserve it either.

    The 2 situations aren't even comparable honestly. Even though the grind required for that much currency is immense and locks the fractal titles from all but veteran fractal players, anyone can work up to and earn those titles if they want to. Ostensibly, the AP is available to everyone.

    The PvP titles were by design limited to 200 people. That is never ok to hand out AP knowing ahead of time that there will only be a small number of people in the entire game who will have a chance at acquiring it.

    So brainless grind should be rewarded more than skill? Great thinking there.
    Every single mmo out there rewards skilled play. They each have titles and AP limited to x people.

  • Illconceived Was Na.9781Illconceived Was Na.9781 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2017

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    The titles are reward enough imo. These are intended as prestige. There's no prestige associated with 15 or even 50 AP; just a way for veterans to stay farther ahead of new players.

    Well in my opinion the titles are pretty boring and bland. Just like the titles you get for each 5k AP step. I am never using those either.

    I'm sorry you don't like the titles; that doesn't change their purpose.

    Also how it is a problem if veterans are further away than new players? That seems like a no brainer to me in a permanent progression system. Grindy stuff that keeps people busy during content draught seems like a good idea to me. And since AP are such a limited resource, "15 or even 50 AP" have a lot more prestige than any other value you can accumulate in this game.

    If the person first to 35k can't see how veterans stay further ahead with granting extra AP that can only be earned by veterans, then I doubt there's any explanation that will be satisfactory. It takes 30.6k to put someone in the top 1000 for NA, 32.2k for EU; 15 or 50 AP isn't going to matter enough for anyone except those near the top, who already have the prestige of being near the top.

    I'm not against adding more chieves to the game nor against finding other ways to grant AP. My point is that AP serves an entirely different purpose from the titles granted with Mist Attunement.

    It's a shame that your dislike of the title wording is preventing you from seeing that it's still prestigious to obtain it.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Isnt this suppose to be a casual game? Wasnt that the purpose we removed ap from pvp? I think we should stay consistend to that and not break that consistency when it only benefits certain ppl what do you think OP? :)

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2017

    You have a very interesting agenda considering you moved heaven and earth to remove AP from PvP top250 titles.

  • FrizzFreston.5290FrizzFreston.5290 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2017

    PvP achievements imo are just as much of an achievement as if not more of an achievement than buying something very expensive.

    In a way you could partially just buy this achievement through gems whereas the pvp one you actually need to fully achieve.

    Regardless of whether there's people "cheating the system" because of these goals that doesnt make it so that these need to be void of AP. Cheating and exploiting people need to be dealt with regardless of an amount of AP. Removing the AP from pvp titles didn't remove this behavior either.

    Do these fractal titles need lots of AP? No. I don't think its healthy to incentivize something thats clearly intended to be pointlessly expensive and purely for those completely into fractals. Putting AP on these would just make it (more of) a goal of obtaining these for the AP rather than those who want to show off their fractal prestige. Its not intended for AP hunters.

    And even if so it needs to be along the lines of other purely spend alot of stuff intended achievements. So 1-5 AP at the most.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I agree with the AP for the titles but not with the amounts.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2017

    Well I guess I will post suggestions on my alt accounts in future if people act like this. Good day. Have fun suspecting me behind everyone making suggestions that would benefit me ;)
    It is pretty pointless to have discussions here if people post negative feedback solely because they disliked the outcome of some of my previous posts. Topics should be discussed without considering who posted something.

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    Well I guess I will post suggestions on my alt accounts in future if people act like this. Good day. Have fun suspecting me behind everyone making suggestions that would benefit me ;)
    It is pretty pointless to have discussions here if people post negative feedback solely because they disliked the outcome of some of my previous posts. Topics should be discussed without considering who posted something.

    Normally i'd agree but the two subjects share a relation and to most people this screams of hypocrisy.

    Also doesn't help when you basically out the name of your game in your signature and seemingly to most people seem not to be fixated on whats good for the game but whats good for you, not that most of the backlash is warranted from those people who very often do the same things :expressionless:

    What i'd rather see is a scaling down on the AP system and more AP everywhere but that's just me.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    No, if PvP players can’t have AP for their titles even as measly as it was then insane fractal grinds don’t deserve it either.

    The 2 situations aren't even comparable honestly. Even though the grind required for that much currency is immense and locks the fractal titles from all but veteran fractal players, anyone can work up to and earn those titles if they want to. Ostensibly, the AP is available to everyone.

    The PvP titles were by design limited to 200 people. That is never ok to hand out AP knowing ahead of time that there will only be a small number of people in the entire game who will have a chance at acquiring it.

    I know but if you complain about having achievement points related to actually achieving something like the PvP titles then you likewise forfeit the right to ask for them to be linked to grinding a shed load. Had the OP been anyone different (no not one of his 30+ alt accounts either) then my response would have been different however this one can suck lemons.

    Well in the context of the OP specifically I do agree with you. However I don't think the fractal titles should have AP on them anyway.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Can we go back to discussing the actual merits of the suggestion rather than attacking the person making the suggestion?

    Kormir knows I almost never agree with the OP, but that's no reason to reject their ideas just because the OP posted them. Even if the OP were hypocritical most of the time, that's still insufficient to ignore the proposal. Personally, I think the OP's post are as consistent as humanly possible: they want more AP for all things, with bonus levels for skill-based achievements, and tiny (or zero) AP for things that can be bought or cheezed. While I don't completely disagree with the principle, I have, historically, disagreed with the OP about the specific amounts or achievements. But all of that is moot for this particular proposal: what difference does it make what the OP thought about something yesterday? Who cares whether it helps the OP hit 40k AP before anyone else? What's relevant is what the OP proposed today: do you like the idea or not?

    The OP thinks that more AP is more prestigious than a title. In my strong opinion, this is influenced too strongly because the OP has high AP and because the OP doesn't like the sound of the specific titles. I feel the opposite: there are relatively few titles and this one can't be easily farmed or ground out, the way that AP can be.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2017

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Can we go back to discussing the actual merits of the suggestion rather than attacking the person making the suggestion?

    Kormir knows I almost never agree with the OP, but that's no reason to reject their ideas just because the OP posted them. Even if the OP were hypocritical most of the time, that's still insufficient to ignore the proposal. Personally, I think the OP's post are as consistent as humanly possible: they want more AP for all things, with bonus levels for skill-based achievements, and tiny (or zero) AP for things that can be bought or cheezed. While I don't completely disagree with the principle, I have, historically, disagreed with the OP about the specific amounts or achievements. But all of that is moot for this particular proposal: what difference does it make what the OP thought about something yesterday? Who cares whether it helps the OP hit 40k AP before anyone else? What's relevant is what the OP proposed today: do you like the idea or not?

    The OP thinks that more AP is more prestigious than a title. In my strong opinion, this is influenced too strongly because the OP has high AP and because the OP doesn't like the sound of the specific titles. I feel the opposite: there are relatively few titles and this one can't be easily farmed or ground out, the way that AP can be.

    The prestige comes with the title, APs are irrelevant here. People can't see where your APs come from (except knowing that 15k of them is always dailies). But if you wear the title, you could get it only one way - of completing fractal attunements. So the prestige part of the achievement is fulfilled.

    Considering how low on AP side are recent releases, expansion included, it is almost obvious Anet doesn't want to inflate AP system too fast. Adding APs to this title will push people to make it and in time removing any prestige this title has.

    Also, the intention matters. OP doesn't care about the game or other players, he want these AP for his personal goal. Because, as proved here, APs have no prestigue value. The title is where it comes from.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Can we go back to discussing the actual merits of the suggestion rather than attacking the person making the suggestion?

    Kormir knows I almost never agree with the OP, but that's no reason to reject their ideas just because the OP posted them. Even if the OP were hypocritical most of the time, that's still insufficient to ignore the proposal. Personally, I think the OP's post are as consistent as humanly possible: they want more AP for all things, with bonus levels for skill-based achievements, and tiny (or zero) AP for things that can be bought or cheezed. While I don't completely disagree with the principle, I have, historically, disagreed with the OP about the specific amounts or achievements. But all of that is moot for this particular proposal: what difference does it make what the OP thought about something yesterday? Who cares whether it helps the OP hit 40k AP before anyone else? What's relevant is what the OP proposed today: do you like the idea or not?

    The OP thinks that more AP is more prestigious than a title. In my strong opinion, this is influenced too strongly because the OP has high AP and because the OP doesn't like the sound of the specific titles. I feel the opposite: there are relatively few titles and this one can't be easily farmed or ground out, the way that AP can be.

    We discussed them already. If having ap for prestigious titles in one part of the game is bad then its bad everywhere.

  • Ze Dos Cavalos.6132Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    The same way theres no ap for high ranks in pvp, high ranks in wvw, there shouldn't be ap for the hardcore fractal players

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 said:
    The same way theres no ap for high ranks in pvp, high ranks in wvw, there shouldn't be ap for the hardcore fractal players

    WvW and PvP already have very time consuming achievements you can work on over a long time. Think of 250k kills and 10k ranked pvp wins for example. I also suggested achievements for WvW ranks and similar back in the old forum. I have no problem with every game mode have very hard and or longterm goals. But regarding the PvP season titles that got changed, every worry I listed in my post came true, so I have zero regrets about voicing my concerns about it.

    Also I say it again, I cannot even afford the first tier of the attunements (I sometimes do not run any fractals for months), so if anything a lot of people have a headstart on me. So if anything this would cause me to loose leaderboard ranks until I catch up one day.

    As mentioned above, the prestige of this achievement comes from the title, meaning it doesn't need additional APs as the system is already inflated and Anet wants to prevent it going out of control :)

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    Again that makes no sense. Anet removed the AP from the season titles before anyone actually earned them, so noone got anything stolen from them.
    They are also not "indefinitely" available to all. The highest tier is available to one person per season per megaserver and there is no mechanic in place to keep the same people block the spots on the leaderboard over and over.
    It would be better if people would get back to the original topic of the thread or I will feel forced to ask the moderators to intervene, the derailing is getting out of hand.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    Again that makes no sense. Anet removed the AP from the season titles before anyone actually earned them, so noone got anything stolen from them.
    They are also not "indefinitely" available to all. The highest tier is available to one person per season per megaserver and there is no mechanic in place to keep the same people block the spots on the leaderboard over and over.
    It would be better if people would get back to the original topic of the thread or I will feel forced to ask the moderators to intervene, the derailing is getting out of hand.

    From what I see people are mostly against your idea. You also didn't provide anything new to discuss here :)

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    Still the prestige comes from a title, there’s no need to hide AP behind excessive resource stinks.

    Edit: Inspired by this thread I thought I’d make a motion to remove all AP not attainable equally to old and new players or to bring back LS1 AP. I do hope people will support this so that the AP hunting can remain a competitive environment open to all that wish to go for max AP.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    Again that makes no sense. Anet removed the AP from the season titles before anyone actually earned them, so noone got anything stolen from them.
    They are also not "indefinitely" available to all. The highest tier is available to one person per season per megaserver and there is no mechanic in place to keep the same people block the spots on the leaderboard over and over.
    It would be better if people would get back to the original topic of the thread or I will feel forced to ask the moderators to intervene, the derailing is getting out of hand.

    From what I see people are mostly against your idea. You also didn't provide anything new to discuss here :)

    From what I gather only a small amount of people responded to the topic so far at all, mostly the same names over and over which outed themselves of just disagreeing because they dislike my goals and not the idea itself. Further posts of said people just make additional arguments just look like strawman arguments to be honest. Roughly 5 people are hardly a sample size worth mentioning. Ultimately it comes down to wether Anet considers my points convincing - similar to the change to WvW achievements and the pvp season achievements - and not how many forum users like or dislike the idea.

  • intox.6347intox.6347 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2017

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    From what I gather only a small amount of people responded to the topic so far at all, mostly the same names over and over which outed themselves of just disagreeing because they dislike my goals and not the idea itself. Further posts of said people just make additional arguments just look like strawman arguments to be honest. Roughly 5 people are hardly a sample size worth mentioning. Ultimately it comes down to wether Anet considers my points convincing - similar to the change to WvW achievements and the pvp season achievements - and not how many forum users like or dislike the idea.

    I need to go look for leaderboards to get whats happening .... why this topic appears. Ok, you are 2nd now, so you need some option how to again be first. Why people dont care about this topic? Because they dont live from AP like you, 10 here, 50 there... dont care. You are the half brain king between kitten, you think that ppl will worship you for that ? Some ppl will like have your AP, but nobody want invest that much time into it, its like ultimate badge of nolife.

    And back to topic... it think everything that needs lot of time invest can have AP set into it... for some ppl 200hours to 5ap is still good tradeoff, let them have purpose why to do that boring kitten.

    Multiclass WvW player
    Theorycrafted builds tester

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2017

    @intox.6347 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    From what I gather only a small amount of people responded to the topic so far at all, mostly the same names over and over which outed themselves of just disagreeing because they dislike my goals and not the idea itself. Further posts of said people just make additional arguments just look like strawman arguments to be honest. Roughly 5 people are hardly a sample size worth mentioning. Ultimately it comes down to wether Anet considers my points convincing - similar to the change to WvW achievements and the pvp season achievements - and not how many forum users like or dislike the idea.

    I need to go look for leaderboards to get whats happening .... why this topic appears. Ok, you are 2nd now, so you need some option how to again be first. Why people dont care about this topic? Because they dont live from AP like you, 10 here, 50 there... dont care. You are the half brain king between kitten, you think that ppl will worship you for that ? Some ppl will like have your AP, but nobody want invest that much time into it, its like ultimate badge of nolife.

    And back to topic... it think everything that needs lot of time invest can have AP set into it... for some ppl 200hours to 5ap is still good tradeoff, let them have purpose why to do that boring kitten.

    Well then, I think people who get top pvp achievements should get at least 1k AP for their accomplishment. It's much harder to beat all these players in time restricted season than to farm stuff like OP wants to. In my book if OP gets some APs for his time here, Anet should reintroduce APs for PvP Gods :)

    Only when people's time is respected and rewarded in all game modes equally we can say this thread is relevant. Without it, this is only personal agenda of OP to manipulate anet to cheat the system for him again :)

  • @Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 said:
    The same way theres no ap for high ranks in pvp, high ranks in wvw, there shouldn't be ap for the hardcore fractal players

    I feel the other way. Let there be AP for high ranks in pvp and wvw, especially give those top (200? 250?) pvpers their AP back, and let there be AP for the hardcore fractal players. Let a wider variety of things give AP. I feel that high AP should have been designed to indicate that someone's put a great deal of effort into being skilled at everything, rather than just indicating someone who has a lot of gold to spend like it kinda is now.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yea if you want a long term goal then maybe ask for a title and ap for running the same fractal 250k times?
    Ofcourse it should be cm aswell.

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