[Suggestion] Stop making Story Bosses Hard (LS4 Spoilers)

[Pifil.5193]

@flog.3485 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:IMO a "personal" story should not _require _LFG assistance. It should be something that can be done solo.

That is the thing though. Many people claim here that it can be done solo.

Anyway the personal story will never be truly personal because you can always invite people to join your party. And if you couldn't, much would be saying that it is a shame that you can't play with friends/people in personal story.

It can be done solo by many people. However there are many situations where that's a lot harder. Unsuitable classes and builds, control issues due to disability or poor pings, other technical issues, skill atrophy due to the fact that for 99% of the game you basically only need to be facing the right direction and so on.

I did it without a death but it was long and kinda tedious and I was on my Deadeye Thief main who is almost indestructible while dishing out lots of damage. (I spent quite a while dodging about wondering where the bloody power conduits were, trying to get the thrown lightning bolts to hit the rotating orb things). I can see how I'd have a lot more difficulty on my Sword Weaver (I know, I know, you have to switch builds blah, blah, blah).

IMO though the length of the fight just made it a bit tedious and undermined the idea that we had to race the clock to save Taimi. Again. Can we superglue a bodyguard to her?

Regardless, I'm all for a story mode for those who struggle with these encounters more, after all they paid their money too. Like Healix said they could just give the opposite of the Challenge Mote, something that gives a huge buff while in the instance, no achievements (apart from the one for completing the story instance) and even worse rewards for completion than normal.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

And adding an hm is not worth it majority wants story be very easy so a hard mode sincr challenge is unwanted obliviusly

[Pifil.5193]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:And adding an hm is not worth it majority wants story be very easy so a hard mode sincr challenge is unwanted obliviusly

How do you know what the majority wants?

[kharmin.7683]

@flog.3485 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:IMO a "personal" story should not _require _LFG assistance. It should be something that can be done solo.

That is the thing though. Many people claim here that it can be done solo.

Anyway the personal story will never be truly personal because you can always invite people to join your party. And if you couldn't, much would be saying that it is a shame that you can't play with friends/people in personal story.

Agree. My point was that a personal story instance shouldn't be difficult to where inviting others was a requirement rather than an option.

[Menadena.7482]

@Soulentra.7180 said:Maybe Arena net could give us option to play trought all stories on "Easy", "Normal" and "Hardcore" mode? So people who don't care about their gear and build at all could go with easy mode (and get less rewards)? And ppl who want some challenge and better rewards they would go on Normal/Hardcore mode?

Yes please. I rarely care about the bags of loot or whatever. As long as I get whatever unlocks (sometimes the treasure is worth it, but usually it is 2 blues and a green), like waypoints, I am happy. Spotting purple gems in a purple forcefield with a purple background with purple lights all around is not worth a few pieces of silver.

[Ashen.2907]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:IMO a "personal" story should not _require _LFG assistance. It should be something that can be done solo.

That is the thing though. Many people claim here that it can be done solo.

Anyway the personal story will never be truly personal because you can always invite people to join your party. And if you couldn't, much would be saying that it is a shame that you can't play with friends/people in personal story.

Agree. My point was that a personal story instance shouldn't be difficult to where inviting others was a requirement rather than an option.

Also agreed. However, by definition, its not a requirement if it is not required for success. Assuming that no one claiming to have successfully completed the instance solo is lying, it is established as a fact that inviting others is not a requirement.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

@TheUndefined.1720 said:I'm new to going through a full LS. Last one I did was Season 1 - yeah.

If you compare the last fight in the S1 story to the last fight in the S4 E1 story, you'll see there's not much of a difference in terms of mechanics. Both fights have Braham and his bubbles and you and your tasks to disable and kill the enemy.

If anything, the S1 boss was harder in my opinion when it FIRST came out because no one was in the ring with you, Brahams bubbles and Roxs flames were sporatic and often ill executed and you were attempting to do it on a vanilla spec with exotics or lower quality gear. With this fight, Braham is in there with you and you have the benefit of atleast 1 elite spec, mounts and much better gear.

I'm not going say get good or argue that this fight is hard for some, I'll just say in comparison to past fights and player limitations at the time those fights were first released, this current one is actually much easier.

[Genesis.5169]

I disagree, fights like these teach people how to play the more people who know how to play the less toxic elitism will be around in raids and high level fotm, pvp, and wvw. Anet needs to increase the skill floor in OW so other game modes do not suffer for bad players.

Keep this up anet and we will have a solid playerbase who atleast understand the fundamentals.

[Rabe.2456]

I might have missed something, but there is zero penalty to dying... What are we complaining about?

[Pifil.5193]

@Rabe.2456 said:I might have missed something, but there is zero penalty to dying... What are we complaining about?

Read the thread.

[Ayakaru.6583]

How to fix the game:Make raids an actual integrated part of the story.Then we’ll return to this topic again.

[LadyRhonwyn.2501]

@TheUndefined.1720 said:With the Warden, I didn't even know she was taking on the forms of the 6 deities until like 3/4ths into her health bar b/c she wouldn't stop running around. I saw Lyssa, but I had assumed that was just her mesmer thing. Seriously, just slow down their skills and let me enjoy it. If I wanted a challenge, I'd go into a raid or fractal.She takes the form of the 6 deities? I never noticed...

The same with the first fight of the LS, where either Canach or Rytlock keeps commenting on Aurene. I never even saw Aurene... And that last fight I was like: let her suffocate, I'm out of here...

[flog.3485]

@Cerioth.7062 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:IMO a "personal" story should not _require _LFG assistance. It should be something that can be done solo.

That is the thing though. Many people claim here that it can be done solo.

Anyway the personal story will never be truly personal because you can always invite people to join your party. And if you couldn't, much would be saying that it is a shame that you can't play with friends/people in personal story.

If you want, I can record it solo.

No need to record it, I know it can be done solo, I have done it solo.

[flog.3485]

@Pifil.5193 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:IMO a "personal" story should not _require _LFG assistance. It should be something that can be done solo.

That is the thing though. Many people claim here that it can be done solo.

Anyway the personal story will never be truly personal because you can always invite people to join your party. And if you couldn't, much would be saying that it is a shame that you can't play with friends/people in personal story.

It can be done solo by many people. However there are many situations where that's a lot harder. Unsuitable classes and builds, control issues due to disability or poor pings, other technical issues, skill atrophy due to the fact that for 99% of the game you basically only need to be facing the right direction and so on.

I did it without a death but it was long and kinda tedious and I was on my Deadeye Thief main who is almost indestructible while dishing out lots of damage. (I spent quite a while dodging about wondering where the bloody power conduits were, trying to get the thrown lightning bolts to hit the rotating orb things). I can see how I'd have a lot more difficulty on my Sword Weaver (I know, I know, you have to switch builds blah, blah, blah).

IMO though the length of the fight just made it a bit tedious and undermined the idea that we had to race the clock to save Taimi. Again. Can we superglue a bodyguard to her?

Regardless, I'm all for a story mode for those who struggle with these encounters more, after all they paid their money too. Like Healix said they could just give the opposite of the Challenge Mote, something that gives a huge buff while in the instance, no achievements (apart from the one for completing the story instance) and even worse rewards for completion than normal.

If it gives a huge buff, what do you do in the story mode then ? You just stand around on a corner, facing the mobs, ignoring aoes, auto-attacking until all mobs are cleared ? Why go into the trouble of Anet designing this kind of feature, if someone can just watch a video of the encounter to know about the story ? And after all that you are going to tell me that they are enjoying the story ? By participating in downgraded fight that doesn't even use the potential and specs of the class people play ? and you propose that they give less rewards ? I mean the rewards for completing the normal story without the achievements are already abysmal.

Sorry but personally, I can't get behind the idea of unsuitable classes and builds. I would get behind this idea if we had classes that only had melee weapons or ranged weapons and vice-versa. Or classes who did not have access to aoes and others who did. As for disabilities, pings, skill atrophy due to only facing the right direction, I mean how can you account Anet responsible for all of that ? Your comment about skill atrophy is the one gameplay exemple that I think is necessary to have control over imo simply because we are playing an action focused game.

I would only agree on one thing however; it feels like the last boss has a bit too much health.

[Valiant.5078]

I like the idea of difficulty levels. Easy, Medium, Hard. Since a lot of people treat story content as solo-stuff, a lot of single players games out there have a difficulty slider.

[Ashen.2907]

A consumable, purchased for either gold or gems, that provides a buff similar to what you can get in the special forces training area, all boons and buffs at max stacks, that removes the ability to gain XP, karma, gold, etc while in effect might be easier to develop than a separate difficulty setting. Since this mechanic is already in the game, to some extent, and provides bonuses only comparable to what a (extremely) min/maxed group could do, would this address anyone's concerns?

[shindiggity.8306]

If you go full glass canon and no sustain or defensive utilities, then yes it will be to hard. Even then, every boss fight is hard the first time figuring it out.I for one enjoyed the scruffy 2.0 fight, and the second character I beat him with I did fine.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@LadyRhonwyn.2501 said:

@TheUndefined.1720 said:With the Warden, I didn't even know she was taking on the forms of the 6 deities until like 3/4ths into her health bar b/c she wouldn't stop running around. I saw Lyssa, but I had assumed that was just her mesmer thing. Seriously, just slow down their skills and let me enjoy it. If I wanted a challenge, I'd go into a raid or fractal.She takes the form of the 6 deities? I never noticed...

The same with the first fight of the LS, where either Canach or Rytlock keeps commenting on Aurene. I never even saw Aurene... And that last fight I was like: let her suffocate, I'm out of here...

That's really funny. I had no idea what she was doing either. The fight only lasted a minute and a half. All I know is I was constantly bouncing around trying to avoid area effects! That's okay, though. I thought it was a fun encounter, even if I didn't have time to slow down and watch what she was doing.

[Chickenooble.5014]

@Ashen.2907 said:A consumable, purchased for either gold or gems, that provides a buff similar to what you can get in the special forces training area, all boons and buffs at max stacks, that removes the ability to gain XP, karma, gold, etc while in effect might be easier to develop than a separate difficulty setting. Since this mechanic is already in the game, to some extent, and provides bonuses only comparable to what a (extremely) min/maxed group could do, would this address anyone's concerns?That's a pay-to-win item. How about people just use their skills and builds to give themselves buffs. If they need more buffs they can bring more people into the instance.

[Sittaraha.9361]

I agree with the op. The story modes have become just too much with the bosses...to long of a fight with to much to watch out for. And some of the other mechanics with the massive mobs with crowd control as the awaken inquest. I was unable to perform any actions cause I keep being pulled, pushed and knocked down.

[Chamelion.9536]

As with anything, anywhere, there are those who want easier content, and those who say 'get better'. I'm on board with the third option; compromise. As I said previously, if Anet had a way to implement a skill level option of LV stories ONLY (Easy, medium, hard). Then those who want it the way it is, don't lose a thing, and those who want less, get to finish the LS content solo and enjoy the story. Now, when you return to any of those stories to pick up achievements, then it reverts to the normal level so you can only earn the rewards at the same tier as they are now.

C

[lynspottery.6529]

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:They need to stop overloading bosses with insane effects that blind you and grind your PC to a halt unless you have a computer from space, that's the main thing they need to do.

^^ this...absolutely, this. If they would tone down all the insane graphic effects instead of overloading the fights with them, I would not have a problem redoing the instances at all. As it is, once is enough ...none of my alts will do any of these, period.

[Leablo.2651]

I think 2 difficulty levels would suffice, as there's basically only one issue here, which is guaranteeing the ability to progress for people who are incapable of completing a challenge. As is, the story instances can't be lost, you can respawn infinitely and just brute force your way through all of them, which is one way to make that guarantee. And yet this impacts both groups negatively; as with the OP who thinks the instances take too long as a result of having to constantly down and revive, and for other players who would rather see a fairer challenge with a skill requirement for completion, and does not rely on the player's immortality to make it interesting.

In short, let's have a no-rewards Infantile Mode for those who want no barriers to story progression, and better balanced encounter design for everyone else that pulls the current extremes of insane pressure and invincibility more toward the middle where "fun" exists for most people.

[Westenev.5289]

@"Leablo.2651" said:I think 2 difficulty levels would suffice, as there's basically only one issue here, which is guaranteeing the ability to progress for people who are incapable of completing a challenge. As is, the story instances can't be lost, you can respawn infinitely and just brute force your way through all of them, which is one way to make that guarantee. And yet this impacts both groups negatively; as with the OP who thinks the instances take too long as a result of having to constantly down and revive, and for other players who would rather see a fairer challenge with a skill requirement for completion, and does not rely on the player's immortality to make it interesting.

In short, let's have a no-rewards Infantile Mode for those who want no barriers to story progression, and better balanced encounter design for everyone else that pulls the current extremes of insane pressure and invincibility more toward the middle where "fun" exists for most people.

The problem is that an "infantile" mode could take dev resources to impliment, which could make the episode suffer as a whole. As you've said, story mode can already be brute forced - do we really need our hands held the entire way?

[Leablo.2651]

@Westenev.5289 said:

@"Leablo.2651" said:I think 2 difficulty levels would suffice, as there's basically only one issue here, which is

guaranteeing

the ability to progress for people who are incapable of completing a challenge. As is, the story instances can't be lost, you can respawn infinitely and just brute force your way through all of them, which is one way to make that guarantee. And yet this impacts both groups negatively; as with the OP who thinks the instances take too long as a result of having to constantly down and revive, and for other players who would rather see a fairer challenge with a skill requirement for completion, and does not rely on the player's immortality to make it interesting.

In short, let's have a no-rewards Infantile Mode for those who want no barriers to story progression, and better balanced encounter design for everyone else that pulls the current extremes of insane pressure and invincibility more toward the middle where "fun" exists for most people.

The problem is that an "infantile" mode could take dev resources to impliment, which could make the episode suffer as a whole. As you've said, story mode can already be brute forced - do we really need our hands held the entire way?

I don't necessarily mean redoing existing instances, but as a design principle for moving forward at least. The issue, for me, is less about making things easier for OP and more about a separation of concerns, so that Anet's designers can restore a balance of challenge and fairness in a boss fight instead of overtuning it for the best soloists and expecting most other players to graveyard rush as much as they need to. This just makes the victory hollow for all. Sure it's progression with gameplay, but it didn't strike me as fun or compelling. There is a mismatch between the epic visuals of these fights and the lack of any real tension in them.