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How to balance every single thing that's bad on Engineer [PvP]


Chaith.8256

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@"Chaith.8256" said:

Yet agreeing now that for whatever reason, Engi needs buffs. It's just true, so I'm glad you agree now. The goal posts for the 'balanced' tier have moved and to be balanced, Core Engi needs buffs. It was never a matter of just nerfing the few broken PoF specs, as there are multiple core , HoT, and PoF builds all on a level higher than Engi.

So which is it, nerf all other specs or buff core Engi & other trashcans? Seems like you're now catching on to the better way. I don't think I misinterpreted, you just understand how it should work now.

Even so, in your Coolguy quotes from before you don't talk about nerfing all other specs, more just like top 4 PoF: Holo, Scourge, Mirage, Spellbreaker. I'm just saying, it was never enough to nerf top 4 PoF specs to make Engi good, and it was never a great plan to nerf all other specs when we can easily adjust a few bad and good ones to join a LOT of "Great" rated specs.

Thats cool that you quoted almost everything I said and I like how you left out the parts where i said the op specs need to be toned down, (which was much more than scourge,sb,mirage,holo). Like i said, i think the game would be much more balanced and fun if everything got toned down but thats just me and people have different views. I know everything getting toned down is likely not gonna happen so I'll just agree with you and just buff core engi and be done with it. And yes you did misinterpret me quite a bit

Im curious to know tho, what are you gonna do if core engi remains untouched in this next balance patch?

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@Rezzet.3614 said:

If we remove elite specs the only usable thing engi would have left is basically the typical pistol condi build and juggernaut ftEngi needs an overhaul

Whatever happened to the promised support rework?

Juggernaut? If that even. Edit: I don't know any PvP build with flamethrower that's better with juggernaut as opposed to incendiary powder

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@Chaith.8256 said:

Cry myself to sleep :bawling:

Probably just keep suggesting helpful ideas and discussing it. What's it to you

Asked cause i figured itd be heartbreaking for someone to put so much time into something and see nothing can come outta it. And I actually like some of your suggestions, just please try to keep your future ones balanced and not broken.

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I still think turrets need a large health pool increase, to stay on the field longer. And if turrets want to be played as a "get in, get out" playstyle, then there should be a build that accommodates for that too. But turrets should also have a build that promotes the choice of keeping them out. I do understand, since I have been playing Engi since launch, that turrets, especially the healing turret, has been to just lay down, overcharge, and then burst for added effects, such as a blast finisher in the water field, or that combo'd with the CC of turret explosion knockback to survive/provide control over a point, but keeping them primarily for that is just...sad. It's like having bought an item that you thought could last if you really wanted it to, and you tried to keep it in pristine condition, little to no use, and it just blows up on you in a day because "that's what it was made to do". Again, that would/should fit for some build choices, but not all.

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And since I seen a post on ranger pets here, they need a health nerf. Rangers do nice amounts of damage by theirselves, and they can swap between pets universally with a small cooldown. Their pets are:-mobile-capable of using their own skills-high health, some super high defenses and share healing and other traits with the said rangerEngi's turrets:-stationary-super low health. one hit from one attack from a high burst skill destroys it. easy.capable of using their own skills, but at smaller rates, and their overcharges now only happen once on deployment

To see balance in this, these changes should be made.Ranger pets:-decrease health by around 40%, or maybe even half, to promote strategy in pet swapping, and give rangers to keep their distance depending on their build, as they should-pet power and defense, as well as sharing traits, are fine, as long as the health pool is brought down (this could open up strategies for "kill the pet first and then get the ranger, to keep damage from being way too much, way too often")

Engineer turrets:-increase health by a lot, since they can not move. If not by its core, then within a trait, to promote keeping turrets on the field, if desired-Increase frequency of overcharge skills, also let them happen on fixed intervals. MAYBE a slight damage increase? Keyword MAYBE-bring back some kind of cc for detonation. maybe a stun or daze, if not a knockback?

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@"Ghos.1326" said:And since I seen a post on ranger pets here, they need a health nerf. Rangers do nice amounts of damage by theirselves, and they can swap between pets universally with a small cooldown. Their pets are:-mobile-capable of using their own skills-high health, some super high defenses and share healing and other traits with the said rangerEngi's turrets:-stationary-super low health. one hit from one attack from a high burst skill destroys it. easy.capable of using their own skills, but at smaller rates, and their overcharges now only happen once on deployment

To see balance in this, these changes should be made.Ranger pets:-decrease health by around 40%, or maybe even half, to promote strategy in pet swapping, and give rangers to keep their distance depending on their build, as they should-pet power and defense, as well as sharing traits, are fine, as long as the health pool is brought down (this could open up strategies for "kill the pet first and then get the ranger, to keep damage from being way too much, way too often")

Engineer turrets:-increase health by a lot, since they can not move. If not by its core, then within a trait, to promote keeping turrets on the field, if desired-Increase frequency of overcharge skills, also let them happen on fixed intervals. MAYBE a slight damage increase? Keyword MAYBE-bring back some kind of cc for detonation. maybe a stun or daze, if not a knockback?

I think you're relying on parallels between classes too much and that's resulting in some less than optimal suggestions for Ranger mostly.

It's not a desirable strategy for players to target Ranger pets. They're not utilities, it's an inescapable class mechanic, balanced around always being able to be kept alive as long as the Ranger has awareness.

Turrets are fodder, you can summon what, 9 concurrently with supply crate?

In my proposal, the playstyle of keeping turrets alive is embodied by Experimental Turrets, keeping them for the entire lifespan to get the second tick of boons. By doing this, with the buffed durations and additional heavy boon duration, you can get permanent group boons that they offer.

Edit: if you can protect them for ten seconds, get rewarded. No punishment if they die because recharge starts on deployment

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A suggestion i have in mind:

Throw Napalm: Radius increased from 180 to 240.

You mentioned before that Turret's Toolbelt's skills are great, but i think this one isn't, it's a poor man's Napalm, it deals less damage than napalm, and it's easy to avoid just like Napalm, my suggestion is to increase it's radius, this way it feels more balanced imo, you trade damage for a lesser version of Napalm at exchange of a more secure hit against your opponents.

or

The second idea is:Throw Napalm: This skill now uses the Ammo Mechanic, Maximum count increased from 1 to 2.

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@Ivantreil.3092 said:A suggestion i have in mind:

Throw Napalm: Radius increased from 180 to 240.

You mentioned before that Turret's Toolbelt's skills are great, but i think this one isn't, it's a poor man's Napalm, it deals less damage than napalm, and it's easy to avoid just like Napalm, my suggestion is to increase it's radius, this way it feels more balanced imo, you trade damage for a lesser version of Napalm at exchange of a more secure hit against your opponents.

or

The second idea is:Throw Napalm: This skill now uses the Ammo Mechanic, Maximum count increased from 1 to 2.

Now that I think about it, this skill is not bad, but seeing at how weak Flame Turret is overall, I'd be inclined to agree. Two ammunition would be awesome.

Edit: ammunition on Toolbelt probably won't work due to smaller button and hard to see the recharge ring.

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New change added in bold:

Pistol #2: Is now piercing. Increased damage by 20%. Now applies .75s of weakness per dart.

This is to reduce counterpressure from one ememy while you're trapped in an animation, and increase condition variety.

  • Toolbelt skill for Flame Turret, Throw Napalm, radius increased from 180 to 240.
  • Toolbelt skill for Rocket Turret, Rocket, velocity increased 50%.
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New suggestion:Experimental Turrets: Rocket Turret's Retaliation increased from 3 to 5 seconds. Healing Turret Vigor increased from 3 to 5 seconds. Thumper Turret protection increased from 3 to 5 seconds. Flame Turret's might stacks increased from 3 to 5 stacks. In addition to its current affects, if a turret reaches the end of its 10s lifespan, the turret performs an overcharged attack as a parting gift.

Rifle Turret Overcharge, instead of firing faster for 10s, rapid-fire 10 shots over 3 seconds.

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@Chaith.8256 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:Oh thanks for reminding me, can we please get back our EG auto 2-4s weakness

What? When did we ever have that..

I'm not sure about that. With quickness and expertise it could have some gimmicky applications

Was a bug to be honest , back then rifle had 1000 range and there was a trait that gave both rifle and eg extra range but it had a bug that made egs weakness have double duration on auto. But yeah would be op now cuz of condi duration gear

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Auto launching walls would lead to launching it at times you may not want to. I don't like skills doing things I don't want them to and losing control over then.

I'm okay with the manual activation I would just like a little more grace period. If extending the block duration is unbalanced then just let the launch ability linger for a couple more seconds

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@Adamantium.3682 said:Auto launching walls would lead to launching it at times you may not want to. I don't like skills doing things I don't want them to and losing control over then.

I'm okay with the manual activation I would just like a little more grace period. If extending the block duration is unbalanced then just let the launch ability linger for a couple more seconds

I like that idea too. Your first comment makes me wonder if Guardians using Shield of Judgement consider it unintended or out of their control when it explodes at the end? Timed AoE explosions on your position is not uncommon

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@Ivantreil.3092 said:Chaith, in your personal opinion, do you think condi engi still needs the infamous swap Static Shot/Blowtorch slot suggestion that was around the Engi forums for years?

I'm not convinced that would change much, I'm lukewarm about it. Basically that's a maneuver to make shield more viable, that's fine, but I don't think shield can be good until inventions is (shield trait is actually awesome.)

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Update:Removed suggestions to High Caliber, No Scope, and Serrated Steel to reflect an improved Firearms spec from last balance patch.

New suggestion for Serrated Steel to reflect overall increased durations and lower stacks of conditions in PvP:

Serrated Steel: Currently: Bleeding duration increased by 33%. New: In addition to its previous effects, when your bleeding is removed from a foe, that foe receives a final bleeding tick for 33% of the bleeding damage removed.

This is purely for the purpose of helping PvP/WvW condition engineers recoup a little viability in light of recent nerfs.

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I just want one single change for now:

Soothing DetonationWhen you trigger a combo using a blast finisher, allies near the effect are healed.

Healing.png Healing: 340 (0.2)?Number of targets.png Number of Targets: 5Radius.png Radius: 240

Add an AoE condition cleanse. That will allow us to decide between Alchemy and Inventions trait line. Currently we can't create any competitive build without Alchemy trait line.

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@Forestnator.6298 said:I just want one single change for now:

Add an AoE condition cleanse. That will allow us to decide between Alchemy and Inventions trait line. Currently we can't create any competitive build without Alchemy trait line.

Unfortunately, Alchemy still required. Boon duration, vigor or protection, double Elixir S, Hidden Flask damage, and lower cooldowns on all these things like Stealth, Elixir U as well.

Players think Alchemy is taken to survive vs. conditions, Alchemy is also necessary to survive vs. power and do good damage.

Inventions with a condi clear on blast finish doesn't replace Alchemy, it would be a buff to Scrapper though!

For Inventions to be good, it needs more relevant major traits at every level.

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