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A Treatise on Power in WvW and Why Renegade is Surprisingly Good

GottFaust.5297GottFaust.5297 Member ✭✭✭
edited December 13, 2017 in Revenant

A note before we get started: this is coming from a WvW viability standpoint, and doesn't concern PvE or structured PvP.

So, when the vast majority of us think "power hammer revenant" we immediately think Herald. This is due to a few reasons, but the most prevalent are: might/fury stacking and the fact that Herald has been the go-to for power hammer since its inception. This is all well and good, and the old builds are still very, very viable in WvW today with slight modifications due to trait reworks/rebalances. Furthermore: no one looks at renegade and immediately thinks "that should be power." Shortbow is a condition weapon, and the Kalla legend summons are obviously intended to be area denial with a focus on CC and condition ramping/defense. When the two most obvious parts of the spec are clearly not focused on power, digging deeper just isn't something the vast majority of people would do. That said: I have.

When you dig further into the mechanics of the current WvW meta an interesting fact comes to light. A Herald can accidentally punish their own team if they aren't aware of how some of the new mechanics work or aren't paying attention. This is due, primarily, to Winds of Disenchantment and its interaction with 2 of the Spellbreaker passives. These are specifically: Loss Aversion and Enchantment Collapse. Loss Aversion causes stripping boons to deal damage (roughly 450 per boon for a power warrior, which they all are), and Enchantment Collapse causes each boon removed from any target to cascade to 5 more targets in a 240 radius. When combined together this means that Winds of Disenchantment can actively hit 50 targets instead of 10, and deals rather obscene DPS to that entire 50. Furthermore: the actual boon denial portion still only affects 10 targets: so others can actively gain boons which are then stripped every 0.5 seconds which in turn deals damage. Thus a Herald sitting in, or near, an active Winds of Disenchantment dome with facets running is literally damaging their own party rather than helping. Thus I decided to take a look at how to avoid this without having to constantly watch the active facets and proximity to domes, and that lead me to Renegade.

Taking a deeper look at Renegade brought some surprising discoveries. While the weapon and legend are rather bad, the traits and profession mechanics are actually very, very good. Brutal Momentum and Endless Enmity (both minor Renegade traits) combined with Roiling Mists allows you to maintain 100% crit chance with only 27% base crit from gear. This means you can invest all that excess precision into other stats like vitality or toughness to avoid the durability issues normally associated with power burst. Note that this requires you to keep a full endurance bar, but that's not hard to do if you rely on Reposting Shadows from Shiro for your dodges (which has the added benefit of also providing more fury). Lasting Legacy combined with Citadel Command and a bit of might duration allows the Renegade to maintain 25 stacks of might for themselves and their party without having to camp a legend. This means than you can freely swap to whatever legend you feel best fits the situation without sacrificing damage for yourself or your party. Furthermore: due to the burst nature of the might application (15 per with full fervor) and the fact that it's an active still: you don't suffer from the negative interaction with Wind of Disenchantment that a Herald will for the same Might stacks. Finally, due to that 100% crit chance and Lasting Legacy already mentioned above: you'll always have instant access to 5 stacks of Improved Kalla's Fervor which nets you a free 16.6% additional crit damage through Ferocity. Note that this is a raw 16.6% damage bonus due to the fact that you can't not crit.

TL/DR:

  • Heralds can actively kill their own party with facets near Winds of Disenchantment if they don't know or aren't paying attention.
  • Renegade can easily hit 100% crit chance with very little precision while also having superior crit damage due to Kalla's Fervor allowing them to take defensive stats with absolutely no sacrifice in damage.
  • Renegade can maintain 25 stacks of might without having to camp a legend and avoids the negative interaction that facets have with WoD.

I've spent about 40 hours testing this build in T1/T2 NA WvW to great success over the last couple of weeks, but that doesn't mean is completely optimal. That said, here it is:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJASmnvNeNS6JvJRVlHlsrykSYW5SJYssrkFNlqtACgG4PIHylkdMWj4A-j1SBQBa4IAUuLIgIV6BgHAgZUCuwDBglU1AP6Cox+DXRZQCVLIAwBw5nn5nH48zP/8zz1nf+5nf+5nf+5nXKAVXGB-w

Comments

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2017

    Tried, kalla is garbage.

    If you don't want to give boon spam to allies then swap glint for traited jalis.
    Can't strip rite of the great dwarf and that stab skill pulses. Can even still aoe swiftness stack.

    If I wasnt forced to run down trolling skirmishers for STRM I would run this,

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJASmnvNWNS6JrJRVl/ksrygSYW5QJYscrkFNFptQgGqzu9jd864A-jVSBQBZU5nJVCuhDBgP2fYhHBAKp+De0VAgHEwCugABAQAu5Nzm3Mbezczbezbezb23t5Nv5Nv5Nv5Nv5NLFwqLjA-w

    But I have to take glint as kalla is terrible in 1v1.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • @Justine.6351 said:
    Tried, kalla is garbage.

    If you don't want to give boon spam to allies then swap glint for traited jalis.
    Can't strip rite of the great dwarf and that stab skill pulses. Can even still aoe swiftness stack.

    If I wasnt forced to run down trolling skirmishers for STRM I would run this,

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJASmnvNWNS6JrJRVl/ksrygSYW5QJYscrkFNFptQgGqzu9jd864A-jVSBQBZU5nJVCuhDBgP2fYhHBAKp+De0VAgHEwCugABAQAu5Nzm3Mbezczbezbezb23t5Nv5Nv5Nv5Nv5NLFwqLjA-w

    But I have to take glint as kalla is terrible in 1v1.

    If you aren't using glint: there's no reason to take Herald in light of the fact that the Renegade traits and profession mechanics are so vastly superior for Power builds.

    I agree though: Kalla legend is pretty bad. Between the fact that the summons can be CC'd and killed combined with the long startup time and terrible target prioritization: there needs to be a serious amount of work done to her before she's viable. The same goes for Shortbow. It appears to have been designed as a ranged "poke" condi weapon, but only has 900 range which means it's not actually viable at that role.

  • Napo.1230Napo.1230 Member ✭✭✭

    Interesting read I can totally see what you mean for big groups and might actually try it.

    My issue with renegade is I often small scale in wvw (I know I know go blob or go home)

    It just doesn't work :'(

  • GottFaust.5297GottFaust.5297 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2017

    @Napo.1230 said:
    Interesting read I can totally see what you mean for big groups and might actually try it.

    My issue with renegade is I often small scale in wvw (I know I know go blob or go home)

    It just doesn't work :'(

    Revenant in general seems to have issues with small-scale PvP in the current meta when compared to its contemporaries. When specs like daredevil, mirage, spellbreaker, and holosmith exist: not much else can really compete.

  • Napo.1230Napo.1230 Member ✭✭✭

    @GottFaust.5297 said:

    @Napo.1230 said:
    Interesting read I can totally see what you mean for big groups and might actually try it.

    My issue with renegade is I often small scale in wvw (I know I know go blob or go home)

    It just doesn't work :'(

    Revenant in general seems to have issues with small-scale PvP in the current meta when compared to its contemporaries. When specs like daredevil, mirage, spellbreaker, and holosmith exist: not much else can really compete.

    Yeah this is true but atleast glint gives you some survivability.
    I'm not trying to be that guy who poo poos everything, I want renegade to work I want my money's worth like everyone else.
    Trouble I can't even begin to suggest how to fix it other than try a different legend.

    I'm definitely going to try renegade hammer build though!

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @GottFaust.5297 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Tried, kalla is garbage.

    If you don't want to give boon spam to allies then swap glint for traited jalis.
    Can't strip rite of the great dwarf and that stab skill pulses. Can even still aoe swiftness stack.

    If I wasnt forced to run down trolling skirmishers for STRM I would run this,

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJASmnvNWNS6JrJRVl/ksrygSYW5QJYscrkFNFptQgGqzu9jd864A-jVSBQBZU5nJVCuhDBgP2fYhHBAKp+De0VAgHEwCugABAQAu5Nzm3Mbezczbezbezb23t5Nv5Nv5Nv5Nv5NLFwqLjA-w

    But I have to take glint as kalla is terrible in 1v1.

    If you aren't using glint: there's no reason to take Herald in light of the fact that the Renegade traits and profession mechanics are so vastly superior for Power builds.

    I agree though: Kalla legend is pretty bad. Between the fact that the summons can be CC'd and killed combined with the long startup time and terrible target prioritization: there needs to be a serious amount of work done to her before she's viable. The same goes for Shortbow. It appears to have been designed as a ranged "poke" condi weapon, but only has 900 range which means it's not actually viable at that role.

    I was suggesting not even using herald at all by replacing it with jalis/retribution wrather than picking up renegade which is infact worse. Its traits may look good on paper but in practice you will never really make it something more than herald. If you are boon spamming inside Spellbreaker bubbles with a hammer rev you are already were you shouldn't be and the solution is simply to swap to shiro to stop boon spam and use one of it's movement skills to get out. I have not seen anything on kalla that can even begin to replace elders force, infuse light and radiant revival. Never mind heralds free to cast utility skills.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Thanks for this post, I don't like to zerg but it is a very good read. I actually plan to try it out.

  • I currently use renegade. and based on the situation im using jalis and shiro or jalis and malix. Bow is useless in WvW. hammer and swords. or if your brave and solo roaming swords and staff. I find it funny sometimes when people talk about the renegade having to use bow. Its the same as herrald having to use shield (which I have never seen in the short time I have been playing this game). for zerg fights resistance and jalis skills save lives and not just your own. solo roaming shiro and jalis save your life lol. Im not at glassy as the OP But I am able to still out damage heralds with just the alacrity alone. 25 might stacking and might sharing on refresh is an added bonus for renegade. The hard thing is if you have been playing herald and go to renegade it s different play style that you will have to get used to. no more invulnerables op heals.

  • I haven't played WvW since the expac dropped, but onething keeps bothering me about this: I have a hard time seeing boons as a bad thing, even with masses of removal and corruption in the game. Sure, if you take on a scourge with swiftness/fury/might/protection it'll slowly get torn away, but the flip side side is never having swiftness/fury/might/protection to begin with. That is giving up a lot of advantage to deal with a few stacks of torment.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.