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Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]


Lonami.2987

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Your raid time is over cause we only getting yellow rares in pve, we have had enough of sitting on the sidelines while you talk about the wing of the week. Take a week to beat a boss, no uh uh, shouldnt take more than 10-15minutes. Am I talking like an adult as you put it Turin, well yes I am cause I am speaking with authority. The garbage mechanics from raids need to go bye bye, NOW.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:Nope, that's wrong. Quality content (which raids are) will make players play it
once
. Replayability in PvE needs rewards.There is a big difference between using rewards to keep people playing the content, and using them to
lure
people into the content. The former is completely normal and okay, but that's not what we see with raids.

You're speaking as if there is only one type of players and they are all either in for the content or the rewards. It's an oversimplification and it misses the point completely.

There will be always those who flock to rewards. Remember Tarir when multiloot used to be a thing? There were 9-10 maps successfully done in prime times easily. How many are there now, 3? Is the content bad? No, it is still quality content, as it has always been. Quality and rewards are both factors, for everyone. Some lean toward one, some lean toward the other and that's personal differences.

The thing with raids is, there is a higher barrier of entry, on two separate accounts. First the number of players. It's easier to gather 5 than it is to gather 10. Second, the difficulty. Rewards are needed to, in your words, "lure" players in because of this barrier. It would otherwise stop too many players and the game mode will fail to even start. This is another factor you overlook.

@Lambros Augustus.6594 said:Your raid time is over cause we only getting yellow rares in pve, we have had enough of sitting on the sidelines while you talk about the wing of the week. Take a week to beat a boss, no uh uh, shouldnt take more than 10-15minutes. Am I talking like an adult as you put it Turin, well yes I am cause I am speaking with authority. The garbage mechanics from raids need to go bye bye, NOW.

Sure, go ahead and make a game without mechanics. I'll just grab my popcorn and watch it flop. :lol:

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@Feanor.2358 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Nope, that's wrong. Quality content (which raids are) will make players play it
once
. Replayability in PvE needs rewards.There is a big difference between using rewards to keep people playing the content, and using them to
lure
people into the content. The former is completely normal and okay, but that's not what we see with raids.

You're speaking as if there is only one type of players and they are all either in for the content or the rewards. It's an oversimplification and it misses the point completely.

There will be always those who flock to rewards. Remember Tarir when multiloot used to be a thing? There were 9-10 maps successfully done in prime times easily. How many are there now, 3? Is the content bad? No, it is still quality content, as it has always been. Quality and rewards are both factors,
for everyone
. Some lean toward one, some lean toward the other and that's personal differences.

The thing with raids is, there is a higher barrier of entry, on two separate accounts. First the number of players. It's easier to gather 5 than it is to gather 10. Second, the difficulty. Rewards are needed to, in your words, "lure" players in because of this barrier. It would otherwise stop too many players and the game mode will fail to even start. This is another factor you overlook.

@Lambros Augustus.6594 said:Your raid time is over cause we only getting yellow rares in pve, we have had enough of sitting on the sidelines while you talk about the wing of the week. Take a week to beat a boss, no uh uh, shouldnt take more than 10-15minutes. Am I talking like an adult as you put it Turin, well yes I am cause I am speaking with authority. The garbage mechanics from raids need to go bye bye, NOW.

Sure, go ahead and make a game without mechanics. I'll just grab my popcorn and watch it flop. :lol:

Flop like Fifa Ultimate Team and Candy Crush. :D

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@Lambros Augustus.6594 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Nope, that's wrong. Quality content (which raids are) will make players play it
once
. Replayability in PvE needs rewards.There is a big difference between using rewards to keep people playing the content, and using them to
lure
people into the content. The former is completely normal and okay, but that's not what we see with raids.

You're speaking as if there is only one type of players and they are all either in for the content or the rewards. It's an oversimplification and it misses the point completely.

There will be always those who flock to rewards. Remember Tarir when multiloot used to be a thing? There were 9-10 maps successfully done in prime times easily. How many are there now, 3? Is the content bad? No, it is still quality content, as it has always been. Quality and rewards are both factors,
for everyone
. Some lean toward one, some lean toward the other and that's personal differences.

The thing with raids is, there is a higher barrier of entry, on two separate accounts. First the number of players. It's easier to gather 5 than it is to gather 10. Second, the difficulty. Rewards are needed to, in your words, "lure" players in because of this barrier. It would otherwise stop too many players and the game mode will fail to even start. This is another factor you overlook.

@Lambros Augustus.6594 said:Your raid time is over cause we only getting yellow rares in pve, we have had enough of sitting on the sidelines while you talk about the wing of the week. Take a week to beat a boss, no uh uh, shouldnt take more than 10-15minutes. Am I talking like an adult as you put it Turin, well yes I am cause I am speaking with authority. The garbage mechanics from raids need to go bye bye, NOW.

Sure, go ahead and make a game without mechanics. I'll just grab my popcorn and watch it flop. :lol:

Flop like Fifa Ultimate Team and Candy Crush. :D

Did you really just advertise for 2 of the most horrific micro-transactions invested games/game modes in the industry?

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-03-01-eas-ultimate-team-now-worth-USD800-million-annually

https://venturebeat.com/2017/08/03/kings-player-numbers-are-down-but-theyre-spending-more-in-candy-crush-and-other-games/

Very bold after the entire mount drama. I would not have gone there with a mile long stick.

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@Lambros Augustus.6594 said:Your raid time is over cause we only getting yellow rares in pve, we have had enough of sitting on the sidelines while you talk about the wing of the week. Take a week to beat a boss, no uh uh, shouldnt take more than 10-15minutes. Am I talking like an adult as you put it Turin, well yes I am cause I am speaking with authority. The garbage mechanics from raids need to go bye bye, NOW.

Only yellow rares?

This is from another thread and I'm going to repost this because posts like this make zero sense:

Open World PVE got 6 armor sets, 6 weapon sets, +18 elite specialization weapons, +lots of other individual weapon and armor pieces.Open World PVE always has the most attention and gets everything while the rest of the game gets scraps.

Open world PVE is the only way to unlock the mastery abilities, mounts, elite specialization unlocks plus all the crafting materials (that are needed in crafting anything).In contrast, Raids got a legendary ring and what 3 or 4 new weapon skins?

Yes open world pve is on the sidelines and only gets yellow rares while Raids get all the good things... /sarcasmI wasn't going to post in this thread because everything that was needed to be said about the topic was done in a billion other threads before and now everyone resorts in repeating the same arguments over and over but posts like this deserve an answer to bring their posters back to reality.

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@Lambros Augustus.6594 said:i go where i need to go to get results.

Okay, so how exactly do you think arenanet should change raids in order to incentivise players to spend money?

They could offer different pay to win or pay to speed up packages. Maybe an easy mode buff which reduces all damage taken in raids for 1 week?

That's exactlt how your mentioned games make their money.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Lambros Augustus.6594 said:i go where i need to go to get results.

Okay, so how exactly do you think arenanet should change raids in order to incentivise players to spend money?

LOL, at this point, I think things are beyond that. what is done is done. I believe for the most part, the regulars who are gonna raid, are doing raids, and those that are not, have accepted that, but like anything, when there is no progression, the game becomes more a fling then an investment, and lets be real.. no one spends money on a fling. So if they plan to make money off raids, it's going to come from you and yours.

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Raids should've never been in this game in the first place. This game was bought and sold as very easy and very casual. From a business perspective; changing something that works fine doesn’t need change. I am so happy that I don’t own this game/company, cause people will leave more and more. For noobs this game is too hard and for hardcore players this game is too easy. I clear every wing my self almost every week. Let me tell you one thing, there is no “hard” raid boss in this game.

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@FOX.3582 said:This game was bought and sold as very easy and very casual.

Actually it wasn't and for more than a year after release it didn't have open world farming content. Most of the content was inside instances with escalating difficulty, and it had the highest revenue possible. Then the game moved to easy/casual mode open world farming. We all see the results of that move.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@FOX.3582 said:This game was bought and sold as very easy and very casual.

Actually it wasn't and for more than a year after release it didn't have open world farming content. Most of the content was inside instances with escalating difficulty, and it had the highest revenue possible. Then the game moved to easy/casual mode open world farming. We all see the results of that move.

You really think that do you?

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@FOX.3582 said:

@FOX.3582 said:This game was bought and sold as very easy and very casual.

Actually it wasn't and for more than a year after release it didn't have open world farming content. Most of the content was inside instances with escalating difficulty, and it had the highest revenue possible. Then the game moved to easy/casual mode open world farming. We all see the results of that move.

You really think that do you?

I do and I find it really sad that the initial perception of this game was of being an exciting, action/skill-based mmorpg with some hard/challenging content to put that combat system to good use. And after some years it turned into a "this is a very easy/casual" mmorpg. I know the game had casual features since its release, no kill stealing, no shared resource nodes, no forced grouping in the open world, no gear treadmill, no subscription and so on, but the game always had content to put its own combat system to good use. At least until the community figured ways of bypassing mechanics, then the developers found ways to challenge players in different ways and the cycle was on.

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@FOX.3582 said:

@FOX.3582 said:This game was bought and sold as very easy and very casual.

Actually it wasn't and for more than a year after release it didn't have open world farming content. Most of the content was inside instances with escalating difficulty, and it had the highest revenue possible. Then the game moved to easy/casual mode open world farming. We all see the results of that move.

You really think that do you?

Dungeons, Fractals, no open world meta bosses (hence why people were circle farming Orr in magic find gear), you are out of touch with what this game was at launch. The game always was designed to have challenging content (and dungeons were insanely hard initially not to mention high tier fractals).

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@FOX.3582 said:This game was bought and sold as very easy and very casual.

Actually it wasn't and for more than a year after release it didn't have open world farming content. Most of the content was inside instances with escalating difficulty, and it had the highest revenue possible. Then the game moved to easy/casual mode open world farming. We all see the results of that move.

It was almost a different game altogether when you think about it. The systems that they placed in the game over the years.Revenue is on the decline which is the natural life cycle of an mmo. Expansions bring in the bigger sky high stacks in terms lump sum dollars. Advising of harder content probably wouldn’t attract many players, I’m sure as they have had their fill and moved on.

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@Tyson.5160 said:

@"FOX.3582" said:This game was bought and sold as very easy and very casual.

Actually it wasn't and for more than a year after release it didn't have open world farming content. Most of the content was inside instances with escalating difficulty, and it had the highest revenue possible. Then the game moved to easy/casual mode open world farming. We all see the results of that move.

It was almost a different game altogether when you think about it. The systems that they placed in the game over the years.Revenue is on the decline which is the natural life cycle of an mmo. Expansions bring in the bigger sky high stacks in terms lump sum dollars. Advising of harder content probably wouldn’t attract many players, I’m sure as they have had their fill and moved on.

In my opinion before the death of Scarlet the game was far better than after her death.Heart of Thorns was an attempt to bring back the good old days, but those one of and a half years between Scarlet's death and the release of the expansion (March 2014 -> October 2015), probably did way more damage to the game than expected. And this perception of "easy/casual" was engraved into the thoughts of many players.

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@"Tyson.5160" said:The content drought on both ends probably didn’t help much either. Essentially just doing the same content over and over again.

The entire Season 2 was nothing but endless brain-dead farming in Dry Top and Silverwastes. The only few sane parts were the story instances with some really challenging and exciting achievements, but that wasn't content to last because there was nothing repeatable there. Not to mention those 2 farm zones were nothing like Battle for LA, and the big boss Vinewrath was nothing like the Marionette. Season 2 was a huge leap backwards in terms of content, yes it was fun that it was permanent but that was it's one saving feature. But the most important failure is how it changed player perception of the game.

Of course player perception started changing since the first Queen's Jubilee in August 2013, with the addition of blob content, where the "best build" stopped being the one that completes the content best, the one that deals the most damage, deals with mechanics better or anything of the sort. The "best build" became the one with an auto-attack skill that hits in a wide area of effect allowing it to tag as many mobs as possible. Sending the wonderful active combat system of the game to the trash can.

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@Lambros Augustus.6594 said:Your raid time is over cause we only getting yellow rares in pve, we have had enough of sitting on the sidelines while you talk about the wing of the week. Take a week to beat a boss, no uh uh, shouldnt take more than 10-15minutes. Am I talking like an adult as you put it Turin, well yes I am cause I am speaking with authority. The garbage mechanics from raids need to go bye bye, NOW.

No actually you are not acting like an adult. And the fact that you think that speaking with authority makes you an adult is definitely a bad sign. I am not speaking with any authority. I just think that you are missing the big picture since you just want instant gratification as you describe.

You are basically saying that since you do not like or play the game mode it has to chance drastically without even considering that fact that other players actually like the mode. You pretend to be treated unfair cause you have to suffer through the open world rewards, when its the best supported game mode both in terms of content and skins and general rewards (and with very good reason). That is like Mr. Creosote complaining that he does not have enough food.

You complain about being looked out of raids that are content to play and you want to play them cause you are bored with the rest of the game and then you ask for bosses you can kill in 10-15 minutes at first try. How is that more engaging and lasting content than what you are already bored with? You joked about it but you actually seem to want an MMORPG like candy crush.

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@maxwelgm.4315 said:If player mentality changed Anet has to adapt to that, don't they? We can say all day how better it was when people were doing dungeons as the one endgame content and most players actually cared about challenge but doesn't matter if most players that are here now disagree with it.

People dont want too play for challenge anymore they want free easy stuff with no challenge (sadly how will anyone ever improve ore learn if you dont have too)

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@"maxwelgm.4315" said:If player mentality changed Anet has to adapt to that, don't they? We can say all day how better it was when people were doing dungeons as the one endgame content and most players actually cared about challenge but doesn't matter if most players that are here now disagree with it.

Not really, they can always bring back the vast amounts of players that they lost by adding content that those players like, expected to be in the game, found none, got bored and left. The big question is how deep the horrible stigma of "this is an easy/casual game" is in the minds of the gaming community and if they can reverse it and bring their players back, without losing their current ones in the process. I think with Season 3 and onward there has been great effort in releasing content to satisfy a vast array of interests, bringing fractals back, adding a lot of new maps are all steps towards making the game more far reaching.A varied game is a good game.

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@FOX.3582 said:

@FOX.3582 said:This game was bought and sold as very easy and very casual.

Actually it wasn't and for more than a year after release it didn't have open world farming content. Most of the content was inside instances with escalating difficulty, and it had the highest revenue possible. Then the game moved to easy/casual mode open world farming. We all see the results of that move.

You really think that do you?

As sad as it is, they do. They think back to a time when they had bad builds, bad gear, and were clueless noobs and remember fondly through rose colored glasses the challenge this game was for them. But I agree with you, No one came to GW2 looking for challenge.

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@STIHL.2489 said:

@FOX.3582 said:

@FOX.3582 said:This game was bought and sold as very easy and very casual.

Actually it wasn't and for more than a year after release it didn't have open world farming content. Most of the content was inside instances with escalating difficulty, and it had the highest revenue possible. Then the game moved to easy/casual mode open world farming. We all see the results of that move.

You really think that do you?

As sad as it is, they do. They think back to a time when they had bad builds, bad gear, and were clueless noobs and remember fondly through rose colored glasses the challenge this game was for them.

So... basically exactly like the people unhappy with raids now?

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@Feanor.2358 said:

@FOX.3582 said:

@FOX.3582 said:This game was bought and sold as very easy and very casual.

Actually it wasn't and for more than a year after release it didn't have open world farming content. Most of the content was inside instances with escalating difficulty, and it had the highest revenue possible. Then the game moved to easy/casual mode open world farming. We all see the results of that move.

You really think that do you?

As sad as it is, they do. They think back to a time when they had bad builds, bad gear, and were clueless noobs and remember fondly through rose colored glasses the challenge this game was for them.

So... basically exactly like the people unhappy with raids now?

No... the people who think raids area bad addition to this game never had any delusions about what this game was supposed to be when we came here.

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