How would you redesign the necromancer? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

How would you redesign the necromancer?

Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
edited July 7, 2018 in Necromancer

Do you feel like the necromancer could be much more? That his mechanics don't do his theme justice? Maybe his elite specializations have a weak design? Or do you just want to post some crazy ideas? Well, then this thread is for you.

So, just for fun, how would you redesign the necromancer?

Last update here: May 8, 2018

Few personal ideas to start the thread:


Necromancer - Minion Master

I like necromancer as it is, but since we're talking about redesigns, let's try something different.

There's something that I've never quite understood about him. Necromancers in fantasy have always been about minions. Not all necromancers need to be minion masters though, but ours does have minions, but as slot skills instead of the mechanic, where it would make more sense.

I feel like the necromancer could really improve if Death Shroud was removed from the core profession (leave it as a reaper-exclusive), and instead got a new mechanic, giving him more control over his minions.

This new mechanic would be called the Swarm, and work pretty much like the ranger's pet, except with multiple companions at once instead of a single pet. The mechanic bar would be similar to that of the pets, with basic controls to direct the swarm. Each swarm would respawn dead members every few seconds, though some skills would let you speed up the process. The classic minion skills would now boost the swarm, by adding special stronger minions to it.

You would have a few different swarms to choose from, each with different special skills, different stats, and different sizes. Few examples:

  • Spectre Swarm: Ghostly minions, chill and slow.
  • Horror Swarm: Classic bone and flesh minions, good for direct damage and sustain.
  • Plague Swarm: Minions bloated with pustules, condition damage and ranged attacks.
  • Locust Swarm: Insect-like minions, strength in numbers, life-stealing.

Aside from that, swarms would be customizable with different aesthetics, selected from something similar to the ranger's Pet Management panel. For example, mummified with awakened ornaments. These would have no gameplay repercussions.

This redesign would give necromancer his well deserved minion master gameplay.


Reaper - Shroud customization

Not a lot to say here. If we follow the first idea, Shroud would become exclusive to the reaper, so let's spice that up a bit?

Following the four swarm types, reaper could get four different shrouds to choose from, each with different skills and stat boosts, similar to those of the swarms. You would only equip one, and need to go out of combat to switch it.

  • Spectre Shroud: Similar to the current incarnation, wields a large scythe.
  • Horror Shroud: Wields a greatsword, and walks slowly.
  • Plague Shroud: Condition damage, wields a censer-like hammer.
  • Locust Shroud: An insect lord, wields an executioner's greataxe.

The transformation mechanic could replace the swarm mechanic, or work together with it, in which case the swarm would transform together with the necromancer, getting sacrificed in exchange of life force.


Scourge - Shade customization

Pretty much like the above idea, I would give scourges multiple Shades to choose from, based on the same archetypes as before. In this case, the swarm would be nowhere to be seen, replaced by the shade mechanic altogether.

  • Frost Shade: Defensive, chills and slows, regeneration.
  • Bone Shade: Offensive, direct damage.
  • Putrid Shade: Offensive, poison, corrupt enemy boons.
  • Flame Shade: Offensive, Dhuumfire, burning and torment.
  • Sand Shade: Bonus shade, based on the original. Defensive, barrier and support, blind.

Each shade would now have different skills, which they would all perform at the same time. You would equip two shades, and then be able to swap between them. No longer being locked to just one, it would let us get more specialized shades, adapted for each situation. For example, you could have an offensive and a defensive shade, and alternate between each other during combat. Swapping shades would update currently deployed shades to the new type.


Just some random ideas to begin the thread. Waiting for yours! =)

Profession Redesign series:
Elementalist - Mesmer - Necromancer - Engineer - Ranger - Thief - Guardian - Revenant - Warrior

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Comments

  • Avigrus.2871Avigrus.2871 Member ✭✭✭

    Core Necro needs some serious loving.

    They need to overhaul Death Magic and Blood Magic to an extent - so many bad traits in these 2 lines and a few sprinkled in the other lines.

    Curses, Spite and Soul Reaping all have some nice options, but the other 2 trait lines fall behind.

    Focus - could use some cast time improvements or a better payoff for what they do with current cast times.
    Dagger - not a fun weapon to use. Not sure how to change this.
    Staff - could add some additional group condi cleanse back to staff 4. Staff 2 could use an extra bleed - the weapon does poor DPS except in WvW blob fests.

    Wouldn't it be nice if we could tailor the staff skills for power or condi (like that would ever happen).

    Death Shroud needs a full review to bring it in line with Reaper Shroud, eg;
    DS1 - Increase projectile speed to match underwater DS1.
    DS2 - 900 - 1200 range ground target teleport / blink (make it fast).
    DS3 - Add 2 stacks of stability.
    DS4 - Speed up the channel time somewhat.
    DS5 - This is pretty solid.

  • I would Buff Vampiric presence to to 60-70 so that it may be of any actual use. I would almost full rework the Blood Line as it has so many terrible traits. I woul give reaper a unique buff, an aura that causes allies to deal increased damage against chilled foes. I would completely rework gravedigger, its a dull skill. I would change sand savant to being you no longer cast sand shades and instead only pulse around yourself but then scale up the damage and targets to accomodate.
    That would be my very first pass

  • Zoltreez.6435Zoltreez.6435 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2018

    @Methuselah.4376 said:
    Honestly, necro is fine as it is. All that is really needed is more damage, more stability, some group utility and core necro shroud buff/redesign.
    **

    LOL

    Fine as it is huh ?.......

  • Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zoltreez.6435 said:

    @Methuselah.4376 said:
    Honestly, necro is fine as it is. All that is really needed is more damage, more stability, some group utility and core necro shroud buff/redesign.
    **

    LOL

    Fine as it is huh ?.......

    I wouldn't redesign the profession/elites. Just buff the numbers and do some adjustments here and there. If the design of the necromancer does not appeal to you, then play another profession.

  • @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @Zoltreez.6435 said:

    @Methuselah.4376 said:
    Honestly, necro is fine as it is. All that is really needed is more damage, more stability, some group utility and core necro shroud buff/redesign.
    **

    LOL

    Fine as it is huh ?.......

    I wouldn't redesign the profession/elites. Just buff the numbers and do some adjustments here and there. If the design of the necromancer does not appeal to you, then play another profession.

    Bandaids don't help core design issues, it just makes them more difficult to deal with later down the line. That said, what you proposed wasn't just "more numbers".

    In your own words "More Stability, Some Group Utility and Core Necro Shroud buff/redesign". That isn't "fine as is" that is certainly calling for a redo of necromancer's design.

    Do you want a balanced GW2? Then you are obliged to unironically agree with this suggestion!

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Id love to see some traitline reworks.

    The necromancer condition: fear can be traited, but its split in so many different traitlines, that its not worth taking any of these.

    And we dont have that many options to apply fear. Just 3. Spectral wall, f3 (f4 on scourge), and with luck a corrupt of stability.

    Not really good options to apply fear. So why dont they make it just a little bit op

  • Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aplethoraof.2643 said:

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @Zoltreez.6435 said:

    @Methuselah.4376 said:
    Honestly, necro is fine as it is. All that is really needed is more damage, more stability, some group utility and core necro shroud buff/redesign.
    **

    LOL

    Fine as it is huh ?.......

    I wouldn't redesign the profession/elites. Just buff the numbers and do some adjustments here and there. If the design of the necromancer does not appeal to you, then play another profession.

    Bandaids don't help core design issues, it just makes them more difficult to deal with later down the line. That said, what you proposed wasn't just "more numbers".

    In your own words "More Stability, Some Group Utility and Core Necro Shroud buff/redesign". That isn't "fine as is" that is certainly calling for a redo of necromancer's design.

    I apologize, I think we're misunderstanding each other. When I hear "re-design" I take it to mean scrapping how it plays now and create something entirely new (example removing Reaper's Shroud as it is and inserting some other skills). Most of the changes I suggested are easily implemented; ex. Reapers Shroud 3 could grant 3 stability to begin with and pulse two more for as long as the armor lasts, well of power could also grant pulsating 2 second stability. The change to Dread I presented could also be implemented without redesigning the profession (and it's a core trait to begin with). But yes, to insert a bit of hypocrisy, core shroud needs a re-haul.

  • arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭

    overall i like reaper as is, aka only havin 1 shroud. i'd rather not have 4 to have to pick from every time (to close to Ele)

    plus i like my Reaper with their minions, sacrificing the minions whenever i go into shroud (which i do often to break stun, teleport downed allies to me, and recover hp) would be a pain. as i rely on them and Vamperic to recover hp while i in shroud, and then recover life force when out of shroud. cutting minions away when i shroud as reaper would hurt.

    i'd love to have more choice in what minions you take, not to mention visual options (like skins for minions).
    plus having different shrouds to pick from(could use traits to select one, similar to daredevil's dodge).

    no comment on scourge as my build is literally designed to counter that overused WvW spam class

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @Aplethoraof.2643 said:

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @Zoltreez.6435 said:

    @Methuselah.4376 said:
    Honestly, necro is fine as it is. All that is really needed is more damage, more stability, some group utility and core necro shroud buff/redesign.
    **

    LOL

    Fine as it is huh ?.......

    I wouldn't redesign the profession/elites. Just buff the numbers and do some adjustments here and there. If the design of the necromancer does not appeal to you, then play another profession.

    Bandaids don't help core design issues, it just makes them more difficult to deal with later down the line. That said, what you proposed wasn't just "more numbers".

    In your own words "More Stability, Some Group Utility and Core Necro Shroud buff/redesign". That isn't "fine as is" that is certainly calling for a redo of necromancer's design.

    I apologize, I think we're misunderstanding each other. When I hear "re-design" I take it to mean scrapping how it plays now and create something entirely new (example removing Reaper's Shroud as it is and inserting some other skills). Most of the changes I suggested are easily implemented; ex. Reapers Shroud 3 could grant 3 stability to begin with and pulse two more for as long as the armor lasts, well of power could also grant pulsating 2 second stability. The change to Dread I presented could also be implemented without redesigning the profession (and it's a core trait to begin with). But yes, to insert a bit of hypocrisy, core shroud needs a re-haul.

    Yeah, that's the idea. You have ton of balance threads around to talk about the numbers, I would like to focus on design changes, as far as you want to take them, so go crazy with the redesigns if you want. It's just for fun, and I could see some ideas eventually leading to elite specializations, so it's not a waste of time if you worry about that.

    Personally, I think all core professions need a heavy redesign. Elite specializations were never part of the original plans, the professions weren't ready for them, and it shows. The problems are all around if you start paying attention, and they should be fixed at the core, not through elite specializations. These problems are limiting the potential of elite specializations as well.

    I think they'll eventually need to overhaul the core professions, updating the mechanics, adding new weapons plus the missing healing and elite slot skills, and more. I don't think they will go as far as to redesign entire mechanics, which is a pity, but hey, it's fun talking about it anyway.

    @arenta.2953 said:
    overall i like reaper as is, aka only havin 1 shroud. i'd rather not have 4 to have to pick from every time (to close to Ele)

    plus i like my Reaper with their minions, sacrificing the minions whenever i go into shroud (which i do often to break stun, teleport downed allies to me, and recover hp) would be a pain. as i rely on them and Vamperic to recover hp while i in shroud, and then recover life force when out of shroud. cutting minions away when i shroud as reaper would hurt.

    i'd love to have more choice in what minions you take, not to mention visual options (like skins for minions).
    plus having different shrouds to pick from(could use traits to select one, similar to daredevil's dodge).

    no comment on scourge as my build is literally designed to counter that overused WvW spam class

    I didn't leave that clear enough, edited it to avoid confusion. What I meant is that you have four shrouds to choose from, as in, you choose one of those four. Same for the swarms. Scourges choose two shades, and can swap between them. So, you still have a single shroud, but you equip the one you prefer instead to being locked to a single option.

    It's all based on the ranger's pet variety. I feel like every profession should have an equal level of customization, if possible.

  • arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @Aplethoraof.2643 said:

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @Zoltreez.6435 said:

    @Methuselah.4376 said:
    Honestly, necro is fine as it is. All that is really needed is more damage, more stability, some group utility and core necro shroud buff/redesign.
    **

    LOL

    Fine as it is huh ?.......

    I wouldn't redesign the profession/elites. Just buff the numbers and do some adjustments here and there. If the design of the necromancer does not appeal to you, then play another profession.

    Bandaids don't help core design issues, it just makes them more difficult to deal with later down the line. That said, what you proposed wasn't just "more numbers".

    In your own words "More Stability, Some Group Utility and Core Necro Shroud buff/redesign". That isn't "fine as is" that is certainly calling for a redo of necromancer's design.

    I apologize, I think we're misunderstanding each other. When I hear "re-design" I take it to mean scrapping how it plays now and create something entirely new (example removing Reaper's Shroud as it is and inserting some other skills). Most of the changes I suggested are easily implemented; ex. Reapers Shroud 3 could grant 3 stability to begin with and pulse two more for as long as the armor lasts, well of power could also grant pulsating 2 second stability. The change to Dread I presented could also be implemented without redesigning the profession (and it's a core trait to begin with). But yes, to insert a bit of hypocrisy, core shroud needs a re-haul.

    Yeah, that's the idea. You have ton of balance threads around to talk about the numbers, I would like to focus on design changes, as far as you want to take them, so go crazy with the redesigns if you want. It's just for fun, and I could see some ideas eventually leading to elite specializations, so it's not a waste of time if you worry about that.

    Personally, I think all core professions need a heavy redesign. Elite specializations were never part of the original plans, the professions weren't ready for them, and it shows. The problems are all around if you start paying attention, and they should be fixed at the core, not through elite specializations. These problems are limiting the potential of elite specializations as well.

    I think they'll eventually need to overhaul the core professions, updating the mechanics, adding new weapons plus the missing healing and elite slot skills, and more. I don't think they will go as far as to redesign entire mechanics, which is a pity, but hey, it's fun talking about it anyway.

    @arenta.2953 said:
    overall i like reaper as is, aka only havin 1 shroud. i'd rather not have 4 to have to pick from every time (to close to Ele)

    plus i like my Reaper with their minions, sacrificing the minions whenever i go into shroud (which i do often to break stun, teleport downed allies to me, and recover hp) would be a pain. as i rely on them and Vamperic to recover hp while i in shroud, and then recover life force when out of shroud. cutting minions away when i shroud as reaper would hurt.

    i'd love to have more choice in what minions you take, not to mention visual options (like skins for minions).
    plus having different shrouds to pick from(could use traits to select one, similar to daredevil's dodge).

    no comment on scourge as my build is literally designed to counter that overused WvW spam class

    I didn't leave that clear enough, edited it to avoid confusion. What I meant is that you have four shrouds to choose from, as in, you choose one of those four. Same for the swarms. Scourges choose two shades, and can swap between them. So, you still have a single shroud, but you equip the one you prefer instead to being locked to a single option.

    It's all based on the ranger's pet variety. I feel like every profession should have an equal level of customization, if possible.

    works for me...just dont blow up my minions when i go into shroud.
    if anything, make the minions get some effect when i go into shroud. like maybe have a shadowy effect on them.

  • I'd give scourge real shroud without ability to use utility skills since they get all shroud traits.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Methuselah.4376 said:
    Honestly, for the most part, necro is fine as it is.

    Bwah haha ... did you get that one from a Christmas cracker?

    Necro. Never knowingly blasting combo fields since 2012.

  • ShiroAero.8096ShiroAero.8096 Member ✭✭
    edited January 6, 2018

    I would
    1. increase in dmg forGW skills or speed increase. revamp gravedigger completely. Instead of no cd more like more dmg or smh like that.
    2. fix staff the weapon is stupid and just sad and i use it cuz...
    3. dagger needs some serious love.
    4. core necro traits buffed or changed for more options.
    5. also why we at it I like reaper shroud but it needs more dmg cuz its a joke.

    but most importantly would be core necro and GW and dagger i guess but everything is important

  • Silmariena.6205Silmariena.6205 Member ✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    @Swagg.9236 said:

    DEATH MAGIC RE-WORKS

    Putrid Defense removed and replaced with Strong Soul (Death Magic adept-major)
    Recharge: 1s
    While above the Soulreap stack threshold, gain might at every interval.

    • Soulreap stack threshold: 5
    • Interval: 1s
    • Might (8s): +30 Power, +30 Condition Damage

    Soul Comprehension (Death Magic master-minor)

    Soul Comprehension (Death Magic major minor)
    When you enter into shroud, you briefly gain life force at every interval.

    • Soul Comprehension (4s): Gain life force at every interval.
    • Interval: 1s
    • Life Force: 3%

    Deadly Strength (Death Magic master-major)

    If you enter shroud while you are at or above the might stack threshold, lose might stacks and grant Deadly Strength to nearby allies.

    • Might Stack threshold: 5
    • Might Stacks lost: 5
    • Number of allies: 10
    • Deadly Strength (20s): +150 Power, +150 Condition Damage
    • Radius: 300

    This effect does not stack in any way. New instances of Deadly Strength will overwrite any active instances.

    Corruptor's Fervor name changed to Dark Fervor (Death Magic grandmaster-major)

    While above the Soulreap stack threshold, pulse increased power to nearby allies at every interval.

    • Number of allies: 10
    • Soulreap stack threshold: 5
    • Interval: 3s
    • Dark Fervor (9s): +150 Power

    Similar to banners, this effect does not stack in any way.

    Unique Necromancer party-support mechanic

    Bloodthirst: Heal for 7.5% of outgoing damage; cannot gain more than a total of 50 (0.5) health in this way per second.

    This effect does not stack in any way.

    Total potential health gain per second scales directly with the caster's Healing Power regardless of which ally receives the buff. This buff effectively works as a pro-active version of Regeneration (heals in totals which are calculated within 1-second intervals; player must be doing damage to obtain healing). If a player hits the healing cap before a 1-second interval ends, any further damage inflicted during that 1-second interval will not count toward or result in any healing.

    BLOOD MAGIC RE-WORKS

    Mark of Evasion name changed to Ravenous (Blood Magic adept-minor)

    Gain an increased critical hit chance while under the effects of Bloodthirst.

    • Critical Hit Chance Increase: 5%

    Blood Bond (Blood Magic adept-major)

    Whenever you apply Bloodthirst to an ally, you also grant stacking power and ferocity.

    • Number of allies: 5
    • Blood Bond (20s): +30 Power, +30 Ferocity
    • Maximum Stacks: 5

    Vampiric (Blood Magic master-minor)

    Bloodthirst heals when it is applied.

    • Healing: 130 (0.125)

    This healing applies to all allies as well as the user so long as a given instance of Bloodthirst is applied by a user equipped with this trait.

    Vampiric Presence (Blood Magic master-major)

    Grant Bloodthirst to nearby allies when you use Shroud 4.

    • Number of allies: 10
    • Bloodthirst (5s): Heal for 7.5% of outgoing damage; cannot gain more than a total of 50 (0.5) health in this way per second.
    • Radius: 300

    Last Rites (Blood Magic grandmaster-minor)

    • Healing Power bonus is now fixed at +150.

    Vampiric Rituals (Blood Magic grandmaster-major)

    Upon creation, wells grant Bloodthirst to nearby allies.

    • Number of allies: 5
    • Bloodthirst (3s): Heal for 7.5% of outgoing damage; cannot gain more than a total of 50 (0.5) health in this way per second.
    • Bloodthirst application radius: 300

    The radius of this trait's Bloodthirst application is centered at the middle of an associated well's placement location.

    BLOODTHIRST IN NON-WEAPON SKILLS

    [Blood is Power]
    Cast-time: ¾s / Recharge: 20s
    Corruption. Grant Might and Bloodthirst to nearby allies.

    • Number of allies: 10
    • Might|10| (10s): +300 Power, +300 Condition Damage
    • Bloodthirst (5s): Heal for 7.5% of outgoing damage; cannot gain more than a total of 50 (0.5) health in this way per second.
    • Combo Finisher: Blast
    • Radius: 300

    Pulses immediately upon cast and then at the end of every 2nd second of its duration (total of 3 pulses over 4 seconds in order to apply a total of 6s of Bloodthirst).

    [Signet of Vampirism]
    Cast-time: 1¼s / Recharge: 25s
    Passive: While in combat, gain life force over time whenever you are under the effects of Bloodthirst.
    Active: Gain health over time. Mark nearby foes for increased damage and grant Bloodthirst to nearby allies.

    • Passive Combat-Only Bloodthirst life force gain: 0.5%
    • Passive life force gain interval: 1s
    • Self Healing per second: 1620 (0.5)
    • Self Healing duration: 5s
    • Number of allies: 5
    • Number of targets: 5
    • Bloodthirst (5s): Heal for 7.5% of outgoing damage; cannot gain more than a total of 50 (0.5) health in this way per second.
    • Vampiric Curse (8s): 15% Incoming Damage
    • Radius: 300

    [Well of Suffering]

    • Recharge reduced from 35s to 15s.
    • Duration (in seconds) and total pulses reduced from 6 to 5 respectively.
    • No longer inflicts vulnerability.
    • Radius reduced from 240 to 180.

    [Well of Corruption]

    • Recharge reduced from 40s to 30s.

    [Well of Power]

    • Recharge reduced from 40s to 30s.

    Weapons and Death Shroud

    DAGGER

    [Necrotic Slash] (1a)
    Cast-time: ½s
    Slash foes.

    • Number of targets: 3
    • Damage: (0.7)
    • Range: 130

    [Necrotic Stab] (1b)

    • Cast-time increased from [current] to ½s.
    • Number of targets increased from 2 to 3.

    [Necrotic Bite] (1c)
    Cast-time: ¾s
    Stab foes and increase your maximum Soulreap stack limit.

    • Number of targets: 3
    • Damage (1.4)
    • Necrotic Bite (3s): Soulreap stack limit increased by 2.
    • Range: 130

    [Life Siphon] (2)
    Cast-time: 2¼s / Recharge: ½s
    Siphon life from foes in front of you. While below the life force threshold this skill's initial strike increases your maximum Soulreap stack limit. If you are above the threshold, your initial strike grants Bloodthirst.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Damage (4x): (3.2)
    • Life Force threshold: 30%
    • Life Siphon (3s): Soulreap stack limit increased by 2.
    • Bloodthirst (3s): Heal for 7.5% of outgoing damage; cannot gain more than a total of 50 (0.5) health in this way per second.
    • Maximum Count: 2
    • Count Recharge: 10s
    • Range: 400

    This attack strikes foes in a cone identical to Elementalist [Cone of Cold].

    [Dark Pact] (3)
    Cast-time: 1s / Recharge: 10s
    Leap to the target area and damage foes when you land. Deal more damage based on your life force total.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Damage below 25% life force: (0.25)
    • Damage above 25% life force: (0.75)
    • Damage above 50% life force: (1.25)
    • Damage above 75% life force: (1.75)
    • Radius: 180
    • Combo Finisher: Leap
    • Range: 800

    DEATH SHROUD

    [Life Blast]
    Cast-time: 1s
    Unleash a blast of life force that explodes on impact, damaging nearby foes. If you are above the life force threshold, this blast leaves behind a pulsing field of dark energy which continues to damage foes.

    • Number of blast targets: 3
    • Blast damage: (1.4)
    • Blast radius: 180
    • Range: 1200
    • Life Force Threshold: 75%
    • Number of Field targets: 5
    • Field damage (2x): (1.6)
    • Field duration: 2s
    • Field radius: 150

    *Shares the same projectile arc and travel speed as Elementalist [Fireball].

    The field strikes foes at the end of each second of its duration.

    The pulsing, threshold-conditional field has no combo field typing in order to prevent excessive mono-type field spam.

    [Dark Path]
    Recharge: ½s
    Teleport to the target location.

    • Maximum Count: 2
    • Count Recharge: 15s
    • Range: 500

    [Doom]
    Recharge: 15s
    Fear foes at the target location.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Fear (1s): Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration
    • Radius: 150
    • Range: 900

    [Life Transfer]
    * Recharge reduced from 40s to 30s.

    [Tainted Shackles] (PvP)
    Cast-time: ¼s / Recharge: ½s
    Reveal and bind nearby foes with your life force, increasing incoming damage on them. If the bind is allowed to expire naturally, it inflicts heavy damage.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Initial revealed (3s): You cannot stealth
    • Tainted Shackles (4s): 15% Incoming Damage, 15% Incoming Condition Damage
    • Expiration damage: (1.5)
    • Maximum Count: 2
    • Count Recharge: 25s
    • Shackle radius: 600
    • Unblockable

    [Tainted Shackles] (PvE)
    Cast-time: ¼s / Recharge: ½s
    Reveal and bind nearby foes with your life force, increasing incoming damage on them. If the bind is allowed to expire naturally, it inflicts heavy damage.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Initial revealed (3s): You cannot stealth
    • Tainted Shackles (6s): 15% Incoming Damage, 15% Incoming Condition Damage
    • Expiration damage: (3.0)
    • Maximum Count: 2
    • Count Recharge: 25s
    • Shackle radius: 600
    • Unblockable

    this is sooooooo wonderful <3 <3 <3 <3
    thank You! such changes would be a dream come true <3 <3 <3 <3
    for me only [Dark Path] should have range 900 , the rest is perfect :)

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Methuselah.4376 said:

    @Zoltreez.6435 said:

    @Methuselah.4376 said:
    Honestly, necro is fine as it is. All that is really needed is more damage, more stability, some group utility and core necro shroud buff/redesign.
    **

    LOL

    Fine as it is huh ?.......

    I wouldn't redesign the profession/elites. Just buff the numbers and do some adjustments here and there. If the design of the necromancer does not appeal to you, then play another profession.

    Said the same thing for a petless ranger and look what happened. The necromancer in this game is a husk of what a necromancer truly is.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Silmariena.6205 said:

    this is sooooooo wonderful <3 <3 <3 <3
    thank You! such changes would be a dream come true <3 <3 <3 <3
    for my only [Dark Path] should have range 900 , the rest is perfect :)

    Haha, I appreciate it. The thing about dark path, however, is that while giving it a 2 ammo charge for flexible usage really opens up a lot of play options for necro, giving a class the ability to blink 1800 range on a 15s cooldown would be kind of obnoxious (thief shortbow5 is already annoying enough to watch someone else spam). 1000 range is already very strong especially considering how its comprised of two instantaneous juke blinks. I could probably justify dark path as a 600 range blink, but that's probably the limit.

  • I would like to see Lich Form almost completely erased and be replaced with Grim Specter (current Lich Form 5). Keep it with the current Lich Form life force gain and bump the cooldown to at least 60 seconds, possibly up to 75.

    Death Magic and Core Shroud need soooo much attention, though. Staff, mainhand dagger, and Focus all do as well.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • If I had power over the condition system.

    • Cripple: Movement speed decreased by 66%. Gap closer range decreased by 33%, does not stack.
      Uncleansable, Profession: Necromancer, Guardian, Engineer, Revenant
      Grasping Dead: Summon skeletal hands to cripple foes in front of you.
      Activation Time: 3/4s, Recharge Time: 8s, Range: 900, Number of Targets: 5, Cripple 3s
      Mark of Cripple (Chilblains): Inscribe a mark that cripple the target area.
      Activation Time: 3/4s, Recharge Time: 12s, Range: 1200, Number of Targets: 5, Cripple: 3s
      Locust Swarm: Gain swiftness and summon a swarm of locusts that cripple nearby foes.
      Activation Time: 1/4s, Recharge Time: 30s, Radius: 210, Number of Targets: 5, Duration: 6s, Swiftness: 6s, Cripple: 1s
      Signet of the Locust: Passive: You run 25% faster. Active: Cripple you target.
      Activation Time: 3/4s, Recharge Time: 15s, Range: 1200, Cripple: 3s

    • Poison: Heal potency decreased by 66%; does not stack.
      Uncleansable, Profession: Necromancer, Thief, Engineer, Ranger
      Feast of Corruption: Strike your target, gain life force, and poison your foe.
      Activation Time: 1/4s, Recharge Time: 8s, Range: 900, Poison: 1s, Life Force: ???
      Mark of Poison (Mark of Blood): Inscribe a mark that poison the target area.
      Activation Time: 3/4s, Recharge Time: 12s, Range: 1200, Number of Targets: 5, Poison: 3s
      Corrosive Poison Cloud: The target area is enveloped in a noxious cloud that poisons foes.
      Activation Time: 3/4s, Recharge Time: 30s, Range: 1200, Radius: 360, Number of Targets: 5, Duration: 8s, Poison: 1s
      Parasitic Contagion (Blood Magic Grandmaster): Absorb health from poisoned foes.

    • Blind: All outgoing attack misses, does not stack.
      Uncleansable, Profession: Necromancer, Thief, Mesmer
      Deathly Swarm: Blind your target and unleash an insect swarm that reduce recharges upon landing.
      Activation Time: 1/4s, Recharge Time: 18s, Range: 900, Blind: 1s, Recharge Reduced: ???
      Well of Darkness: Target area pulses, blinding foes with each pulse.
      Activation Time: 1/4s, Recharge Time: 35s, Radius: 240, Number of Targets: 5, Duration: 5s, Blind: 1s
      Death's Charge: Slide forward, blinding foes in your path.
      Activation Time: 1 1/4s, Recharge Time: 6s, Range: 600, Blind: 1s

    • Weakness: Offensive potential decreased by 33%, does not stack.
      Uncleansable, Profession: Necromancer, Warrior
      Enfeebling Blood: Inflict weakness on foes in the target area.
      Activation Time: 3/4s, Recharge Time: 25s, Range: 900, Radius: 240, Weakness: 6s
      You Are All Weaklings: Damage foes around you inflicting weakness on them and giving you boons when struck.
      Activation Time: 1/4s, Recharge Time: 20s, Radius: 600, Number of Targets: 5, Weakness: 1s, Quickness: 1s, Duration: 1s
      Weakening Shroud (Death Magic Grandmaster): Weakness nearby foes when entering Shroud. Take less damage from weakened foes.
      Weakness: 1s, Damage Reduced: ???

    • Chill: Recharge time increased by 33%. Endurance regeneration decreased by 100%, does not stack.
      Uncleansable, Professions: Reaper, Elementalists, Revenant
      Executioner's Scythe: Deliver a powerful overhand strike to chill your foes. Deals more damage the lower health the target is.
      Activation Time: 1 1/4s, Recharge Time: 30s, Radius: 300, Number of Targets: 5, Chill: 3s
      Death Spiral: Conjure a drill of dark energy on your blade and chill foes in front of you.
      Activation Time: 1s, Recharge Time: 12s, Range: 220, Number of Targets: 3, Chill: 3s
      Suffer: Damage foes around you and chill them.
      Activation Time: 1/4s, Recharge Time: 20s, Radius: 600, Number of Targets: 5, Chill: 1s
      Chilled to the Bone: Freeze all enemies around. Gain boons for each foe you freeze.
      Activation Time: 1 1/4s, Recharge Time: 90s, Radius: 600, Number of Targets: 5, Chill: 8s, Stability
      Deathly Chill (Reaper Grandmaster): Hitting chilled foes reduces the recharge on all you skills.
      Recharge Time Reduced: 1s

  • The only think I would want to see is bring back minion summoning from Guild Wars 1 where when you kill a mob then you can summon a minion I miss that kind of summoning pet. As far as Necromancer other skills would be nice to see curses, shadow powers, and other dark magic that could be cool to see on the Necromancer.

  • Samnang.1879Samnang.1879 Member ✭✭✭✭

    being able to resurrect fully dead players/enemies as zombies i mean that's the epitome of "necromancy" yet i dont see anything like that in any specialization or skills :/
    i mean joko in the Twilight fractal can do it... why can't players?

    Anet: give us in-game customizable human NPC companion please
    Please, no more balance changes, or at least reset our gears so we don't have to waste gold changing gears every time.
    Please have option to not receive bloodstone dusts, empyreal fragments, dragonite etc

  • Sephylon.4938Sephylon.4938 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2018

    I'd rework boons and conditions and add a new condition: corruption, which negated the effects of boons on affected players and has a last come 1st serve relationship with resistance. I'd make weakness reduce power and condi damage by a percentage, and also make protection affect condi damage. I'd also change the eternal oasis' 33% in coming healing effect to be a boon that corrupts to and is converted from poison, and give it a healing over time effect.

    As for necro:
    I'd change corruption skills, I would make them remove x number of boons and apply corruption and torment plus flavor for each skill, I'd rework the well skills to have a front loaded effect then pulse that same effect over the duration of the well, I'd rework spectral skills and make them apply ethereal to the necromancer, then change minions to be the condi spam skill of necros; their autos apply 1 stack of a conditions with each hit, while thier active being changed to sacrifice the minion to apply a multiple stacks of the condition they apply based on the current hp of the minion when it was sacrificed (heal skill is excluded and just gives more healing).

    For weapons, I'd change daggers, both off-hand and main-hand, to focus on power damage and dueling, changing dagger 2 to be an evade gap closer, and then swap dagger 3 with axe 3, changing its additional effect to heal the necro for each boon it corrupts, dagger 4 to be another evade and gap closer, and dagger 5 to become unholy burst, dealing additional damage for each boon it corrupts. I'd change staff to be a support weapon, slight changes to scepter specifically moving the boon corrupt to scepter 3 and boosting its auto, change focus to be a defensive off-hand by giving it a block. Finally, I'd add boon corrupt to all weapons that don't have it (even espec weapons both current and future). Boon corruption will be limited to weapons/traits.

    For traits, I'd make spite focus on high risk/high reward, giving the necromancer damage bonuses when they're low on hp. Signet trait now reads: Reduces recharge on signet skills. Signets skills grant might when cast and causes your next few attacks to corrupt boons. I'd make soul reaping a utility trait for the necro focusing on improving shroud and shroud skills along with lf gain. I'd improve blood magic trait by focusing on group siphoning, applying life siphon buffs to allies. I'd change death magic minors to revolve around a gimmick trait: Living Flesh – Your first attack when entering combat summons a shambling horror. This ability is refreshed by nearby deaths. (limited to having 1 at a time). Curses will now focus on applying the corruption condition on removing/corrupting boons, and improving conditions. All traits now have an enter/exit shroud trait that fits the flavor of the trait line they're in.

    For reaper:
    I'd give it a land spear and make all staff scythe skins spear skins, and give them and their shroud a block. Since rise is now a minor minor trait in dm, I'd change it to There is no Escape! – Gain swiftness and immobilize nearby foes. Loose a movement impairing condition for each foe struck. 30 (¼). p.s. reaper shroud now uses a gs =)

    For scourge;
    I'd make sand shades function more like ventari's tablet, pulsing a heal on the affected area which will count as shroud skill 1, other shade skills will no longer proc a shroud skill 1 on use, sand shroud makes you a shade, pulsing the skill 1 heal skill around you and allowing shade skills to proc at your location, at the cost of increasing the lf cost of shade skills and loosing lf whenever you pulse healing. I'd change punishment skills by removing the boon corrupt and have them focus more on group support/utility and have additional effects if they are used in an area that has a sand shade on it. I'd change torch to give the desert oasis boon, and focus on burning.

    edit
    forgot to add, shroud now functions like ca; i.e it is not a 2nd hp bar and allows you to have access to your utilities while in it.

    edit again: spell check is needed.

    I am a giant tomato filled with love. I have come to sell you a house made out of pancakes.

  • How the GW1 necro used to play is how they should change the GW2 necro back into.

    For example: High risk high reward. Explosive damage while killing yourself.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @Samnang.1879 said:
    being able to resurrect fully dead players/enemies as zombies i mean that's the epitome of "necromancy" yet i dont see anything like that in any specialization or skills :/
    i mean joko in the Twilight fractal can do it... why can't players?

    That could be a cool skill for PvE. Instead of normally healing a deceased player, you raise him, and he has 3 minutes of fight. Then he goes back to deceased once again.

    Could be really, really interesting for raids.

    @CHIPS.6018 said:
    How the GW1 necro used to play is how they should change the GW2 necro back into.

    For example: High risk high reward. Explosive damage while killing yourself.

    Some crazy scientist necro with plague bombs is my dream elite specialization lol.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    Do you feel like the necromancer could be much more? That his mechanics don't do his theme justice? Maybe his elite specializations have a weak design? Or do you just want to post some crazy ideas? Well, then this thread is for you.

    First things first I would start off by filling the missing utility categories for every profession
    Spectral heal
    Signet elite
    etc

    I would not change too much core shroud could use mostly QoL improvements and maybe a bit more stability.
    Faster casting on life blast lower & channel time on shrould 4 needs to be reduced
    Boost minions a bit and rework the trait line so that when used it boost them just about as much as ranger pets get boosted when using beast mastery. (Move faster, Deal more damage at high hp, KEEP THEM FROM DIEING FROM 1 or 2 skills in pvp. etc)
    Off hand focus needs its reapers touched coding looked at it should have the accuracy of mirror blade.
    Staff need amo charges at least 2 per skill.
    Main hand dagger (i wont say needs more damage) needs a true identity perhaps make it a high leech sustain weapon blood magic is its trait line after all.

    Reaper is perfectly fine as it is mostly. Just a maybe a 15-20% power damage increase in several areas would do it just fine. (it should hit harder when you go zerker)

    Scourge needs a whole new mechanic rework. The current one will always be hated by other players because of how hard it is to balance not to mention scourge is always locked into taking the big shade anyways which prevents the use of the other gm traits.

    Some utility skills in general need to be redone.
    Fleshwurm needs to work like shadow step. Giving you an instant break stun teleport that summons a wurm at your previous location.
    Singet of spite needs to be reworked into a hard hitting strike that deals 10% more damage for each condition on your foe.
    Makes no sense to have a passive that improves power and a active that applies pretty kitten conditions although it does apply alot of them.
    Spectral Walk should make you immune to the application of movement impairing conditions
    Spectral Armor Needs a stacks of stability for its duration.
    These are a few

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    I would like to see Lich Form almost completely erased and be replaced with Grim Specter (current Lich Form 5). Keep it with the current Lich Form life force gain and bump the cooldown to at least 60 seconds, possibly up to 75.

    I second this ^ would be nice to have a spectral elite that was not that big of a transform. But make it hit hard AF

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    Elites are good, core shroud rework, some traitlines that give"nothing (fear)" i would like to see something different, fix glitch(shroud aa sometime dont shoot, RS2, grasping darkness es,), some utility skills are JUST too weak compare to other classes(Plague signet vs Arcane Thievery: dont start Flaming pls, i know stunbreak bit AT Is more beneficial after succ. Hit And unblockable)And somehow buf shroud(both) fór wvw And pvp stuff, drain Is pain.

    Overall. I rly like the class And understand why necro dont have this And that. But for easier living i like to see that What i write upper(glitches First plspls)

    Jokaurene

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:
    (Plague signet vs Arcane Thievery: dont start Flaming pls, i know stunbreak bit AT Is more beneficial after succ. Hit And unblockable)And somehow buf shroud(both)

    Imo its better compared to corrupt boon.
    But you point is it does a hell of a lot more for something with a very short cast

    But in that case corrupt boon has the shorter cd than ATh.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    But you point is it does a hell of a lot more for something with a very short cast

    Exactly. I know bozh spells are different, So nobody can say"this Is better then this". But like you wrote. IT does more if you hit. I like that. Now im glad if i hit And dont get blocked,evaded. So i Will like that.

    Jokaurene

  • pah.4931pah.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    One thing that really bugs me is that Corruption abilities are so lame -- and even lamer because power creep -- that they are almost unusable. Why these aren't the most OP abilities in the game I don't know. A class like Mesmer gets absurd utilities without any downfall and Necros get these garbage utilities that even without the "self-harm" are not that great...

    They need completely reworked.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:
    But you point is it does a hell of a lot more for something with a very short cast

    Exactly. I know bozh spells are different, So nobody can say"this Is better then this". But like you wrote. IT does more if you hit. I like that. Now im glad if i hit And dont get blocked,evaded. So i Will like that.

    Personally i think AT is fine as is. If corrupt boon did anything more its cd would have to be raised again right now corrupt boon is usually off CD almost any time you need it which is pretty great. and traited its like 12 second or something like that pretty handy tool. The only thing I would want for a CD increase on corrupt boon is for it to hit all boons on a players bar and not 3 but ill settle for leaving it how it currently is.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @pah.4931 said:
    One thing that really bugs me is that Corruption abilities are so lame -- and even lamer because power creep -- that they are almost unusable. Why these aren't the most OP abilities in the game I don't know. A class like Mesmer gets absurd utilities without any downfall and Necros get these garbage utilities that even without the "self-harm" are not that great...

    They need completely reworked.

    Mesmers utilities are strong and solid no doubt about that.

    How ever your call to say that necro corruptions need a complete rework is false.

    Epidemic is still widely used in open world, dungeons, Fractals, and Raids
    Corrupt boon is fine for WvW skirmishes roaming or PvP in general.
    Consume Conditions is the necro staple standard for healing. Is all around necros best healing skill and scales very well for its mechanic. The only hate i have against this skill is that its cd was increased some time ago when it really shouldnt have been.
    Corrosive poison cloud (IS too situational and maybe could use a rework of some kind or another)

    Plague lands is solid. Drop it and it becomes a enter at your own risk zone. OR use for Aoe Rez denial. This thing pumps out a ton of damage on anything that cant or wont move out of it. I would want to think that even scourges use this in open world over The torment realm thing.

    So to you I say you are mistaken that corruption skill do not need to be reworked completely. The self harm vs reward could be re weighted and thats totally fine do debate but they dont need a whole rework with the exception of 1.

    Heck in pve the self harm becomes extra dps if you know what you are doing.

  • Conqueror.3682Conqueror.3682 Member ✭✭✭

    I would like to redesign all the shroud resource mechanic, and even the shroud skills themselves, also give reaper something better than a diferent shroud than core necromancer.

    But as a start, focus death shroud more in ranged skills and condition damage.

    • Give life blast a condition.
    • Change dark path to make a projectile which immobilises.
    • Make life transfer also heal your hp pool.
    • Change tainted shackles with another skill more focused in range.

    Also focusing reaper shroud into power damage, which has been done. And reaper should have another perk apart from a diferent shroud, maybe an special F2 skill with something special. There is an idea, you can put a shroud skill into that F2 slot and use it outside shroud.

    As for Scourge, i would redesign scourge by reordering the shade skills, because traits seem too mixed for what purpose they must provide.

    • Change sand shroud into f1 skill and make it proc dhumfire for every pulse, rather than proc dhumfire for every shade skill
    • Change sand cascade into f4 and make it heal from transfusion.

    I mean, in scourge i want my damage dealing skills to do damage, and my support skills to do support, i dont find any sense to put a heal into garish pilar or wasting shade skills to get the maximum of dhumfire.

    And for last, Reaper and Scourge need some rework into underwater skills.

    Fall down seven times, get up eight.

  • Sublimatio.6981Sublimatio.6981 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2018

    i would redesign reaper to finally have well casting animations when wielding greatsword, 2015 was how many years ago?
    and also in AC dungeon when you turn into ghosts some animations are missing like gravedigger.

    "clang clang shriiiiek clang!" -Belinda Delaqua
    When I join your LFG

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2018

    Revisiting the redesign ideas in a short way, plus some new elite specialization ideas to see how this redesign would improve future content too:

    • Necromancer: The Death Shroud mechanic is gone. The new mechanic is the swarm, letting you control multiple companions at once, using a control panel similar to that of ranger pets, in a mechanically-established minion master role. You have five swarms to choose from, with different combat roles, and you can equip two at once, swapping between them with the F4 mechanic skill. The swarm options are Blood (vampirism), Bone (direct damage), Flesh (damage absorption), Plague (condition damage), and Shadow (crowd control). Each swarm is composed of the same basic unit, the horror. The swarm has an unit limit of 12. Once destroyed, horrors will keep respawning until that limit is reached. Swapping the swarm with the F4 skill will heal the active minions, and let you respawn different ones from then on. Previous minions are not destroyed upon swarm swap, so you can combine different types of horrors at once by swapping constantly. Minion slot skills are gone, replaced by glyphs, letting you summon specialist swarm units, the unit changing depending on your current swarm. These specialist minions can take up multiple slots in the limit of 12. For example, the elite glyph (Flesh Golem) might take up to 4 slots, and the healing glyph (Blood Fiend) might take 2. Mechanic skills F1, F2, and F3 let you control the swarm.

    • Reaper: The Shroud mechanic survives in the reaper, becoming exclusive to him. The Shroud transformation is located at the F5 mechanic skills, and now changes depending on your current swarm, effectively giving reapers five different transformations to choose from. Each of the transformations interacts with the swarm minions in one way or another, driving them into a frenzy, consuming them for more health, etc.

    • Scourge: The swarm is replaced by shades. Mechanic skill F1 summons a shade, mechanic skills F2, F3, and F4 contain shade skills, and mechanic skill F5 lets you swap to another set of skills. The set of skills are determined by your equipped swarm options, and inherit the same combat roles. Shade skills are now much more meaningful, and reward situational tactical approach.

    • Apothecary: The swarm is replaced by plague bombs. Mechanic skills F1, F2, F3, F4, and F5 let you equip 5 plague bombs, individually selected from a list of 10. Each bomb has a different explosion pattern, some of them with random properties. You can throw multiple bombs to the same spot, making their explosions combine to get new effects and patterns. New elixir slot skills can randomize your plague bomb effects even further, making them even more dangerous, to the point where they can even kill you when things go wrong.

    • Necrophage: The swarm can now be consumed to summon a powerful fleshreaver pet. The more minions are consumed, the larger and more powerful the fleshreaver will be. Swarm controls apply to the fleshreaver as well, letting you control it like a regular pet. The fleshreaver is summoned using the F5 mechanic skill, and there's a different type of fleshreaver option for each of the five swarms. You can keep your fleshreaver up for as long as you want, using glyphs to heal it instead of summoning more minions.

    • Swarmhost: The swarm minions can now be infected with insect larvae. By using the F5 mechanic skill, you make the insects hatch, exploding your regular minions to summon a whole new swarm of hungry invertebrates, which can overwhelm and slaughter your enemies easily. The insects die after a few seconds, and can be easily destroyed by area of effect damage. Their strength lies in numbers and the surprise factor. Once the effect is over, the swarm goes back to its regular respawn cycle. Insects spawned by the F5 skill depend directly on each individual minion type, and not just your current swarm type. The insects steal health from their targets to survive longer. You can also use glyphs to summon more minions, which will be automatically consumed if the insects are up. New venom slot skills let you infect your enemies so that additional insects hatch from them, injuring them in the process. You can also infect yourself as much as you want, sacrificing your own life to make the insect swarm even stronger.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i woud make shroud in line with Celestial Avatar and the like and make it so shroud doesn't absorb damage (and you still have acces to your utility skills) and giv necro some proper defensive abilities.

    something they could do is introduce "dark aura" to the game. aura that applies weakness when stuck and rework deathmagic around that (and rework the minion traits) or something

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @derd.6413 said:
    i woud make shroud in line with Celestial Avatar and the like and make it so shroud doesn't absorb damage (and you still have acces to your utility skills) and giv necro some proper defensive abilities.

    something they could do is introduce "dark aura" to the game. aura that applies weakness when stuck and rework deathmagic around that (and rework the minion traits) or something

    That could help with balance, I guess. In my idea above, shroud became exclusive for the reaper, the swarm replacing it as the core mechanic. Starting from here, you could take this new shroud further.

    Instead of each shroud form having fixed weapon skills, you could make shroud transform the weapon skills as well, much like the elementalist attunements. Both weapon swap and slot skills would be available while transformed. Weapon models would be replaced by shadowy versions, respecting their original weapon type. The staff would become a scythe (Assuming scythe never becomes a new weapon type), greatsword would be handled nazgûl-style, etc.

    Life force could disappear altogether, the shroud getting a fixed duration in time. Instead of the direct HP boost, shroud form could temporarily boost attributes so you're still harder to kill, but your health stays the same, so you no longer get a free pass by using the shroud right before getting downed.

    Going back to the "swarm as the core mechanic" idea, minions would no longer be sacrificed, instead being transformed by the shroud as well.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    i woud make shroud in line with Celestial Avatar and the like and make it so shroud doesn't absorb damage (and you still have acces to your utility skills) and giv necro some proper defensive abilities.

    something they could do is introduce "dark aura" to the game. aura that applies weakness when stuck and rework deathmagic around that (and rework the minion traits) or something

    That could help with balance, I guess. In my idea above, shroud became exclusive for the reaper, the swarm replacing it as the core mechanic. Starting from here, you could take this new shroud further.

    Instead of each shroud form having fixed weapon skills, you could make shroud transform the weapon skills as well, much like the elementalist attunements. Both weapon swap and slot skills would be available while transformed. Weapon models would be replaced by shadowy versions, respecting their original weapon type. The staff would become a scythe (Assuming scythe never becomes a new weapon type), greatsword would be handled nazgûl-style, etc.

    Life force could disappear altogether, the shroud getting a fixed duration in time. Instead of the direct HP boost, shroud form could temporarily boost attributes so you're still harder to kill, but your health stays the same, so you no longer get a free pass by using the shroud right before getting downed.

    Going back to the "swarm as the core mechanic" idea, minions would no longer be sacrificed, instead being transformed by the shroud as well.

    i'm gonna go with no,i think your suggestion is a bit too extreme of a change to regular necro

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 27, 2018

    @derd.6413 said:
    i woud make shroud in line with Celestial Avatar and the like and make it so shroud doesn't absorb damage (and you still have acces to your utility skills) and giv necro some proper defensive abilities.

    something they could do is introduce "dark aura" to the game. aura that applies weakness when stuck and rework deathmagic around that (and rework the minion traits) or something

    I think a better way to envision it would be like Holosmiths Holo mode rather than Celestial avatar. Just when i see celestial avatar i never really see it as an offensive thing where as shroud i always think of as an offensive tool just cause welll yeah it has no healing/ supportive skills.

    BUT i do support your base idea behind this with the non protected health and use of utility skills.
    So long as the damage on the shroud offensive skills are also adjusted properly in the process.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    Revisiting the redesign ideas in a short way, plus some new elite specialization ideas to see how this redesign would improve future content too:

    • Necromancer: The Death Shroud mechanic is gone. The new mechanic is the swarm, letting you control multiple companions at once, using a control panel similar to that of ranger pets, in a mechanically-established minion master role. You have five swarms to choose from, with different combat roles, and you can equip two at once, swapping between them with the F4 mechanic skill. The swarm options are Blood (vampirism), Bone (direct damage), Flesh (damage absorption), Plague (condition damage), and Shadow (crowd control). Each swarm is composed of the same basic unit, the horror. The swarm has an unit limit of 12. Once destroyed, horrors will keep respawning until that limit is reached. Swapping the swarm with the F4 skill will heal the active minions, and let you respawn different ones from then on. Previous minions are not destroyed upon swarm swap, so you can combine different types of horrors at once by swapping constantly. Minion slot skills are gone, replaced by glyphs, letting you summon specialist swarm units, the unit changing depending on your current swarm. These specialist minions can take up multiple slots in the limit of 12. For example, the elite glyph (Flesh Golem) might take up to 4 slots, and the healing glyph (Blood Fiend) might take 2. Mechanic skills F1, F2, and F3 let you control the swarm.

    • Reaper: The Shroud mechanic survives in the reaper, becoming exclusive to him. The Shroud transformation is located at the F5 mechanic skills, and now changes depending on your current swarm, effectively giving reapers five different transformations to choose from. Each of the transformations interacts with the swarm minions in one way or another, driving them into a frenzy, consuming them for more health, etc.

    • Scourge: The swarm is replaced by shades. Mechanic skill F1 summons a shade, mechanic skills F2, F3, and F4 contain shade skills, and mechanic skill F5 lets you swap to another set of skills. The set of skills are determined by your equipped swarm options, and inherit the same combat roles. Shade skills are now much more meaningful, and reward situational tactical approach.

    • Apothecary: The swarm is replaced by plague bombs. Mechanic skills F1, F2, F3, F4, and F5 let you equip 5 plague bombs, individually selected from a list of 10. Each bomb has a different explosion pattern, some of them with random properties. You can throw multiple bombs to the same spot, making their explosions combine to get new effects and patterns. New elixir slot skills can randomize your plague bomb effects even further, making them even more dangerous, to the point where they can even kill you when things go wrong.

    • Necrophage: The swarm can now be consumed to summon a powerful fleshreaver pet. The more minions are consumed, the larger and more powerful the fleshreaver will be. Swarm controls apply to the fleshreaver as well, letting you control it like a regular pet. The fleshreaver is summoned using the F5 mechanic skill, and there's a different type of fleshreaver option for each of the five swarms. You can keep your fleshreaver up for as long as you want, using glyphs to heal it instead of summoning more minions.

    • Swarmhost: The swarm minions can now be infected with insect larvae. By using the F5 mechanic skill, you make the insects hatch, exploding your regular minions to summon a whole new swarm of hungry invertebrates, which can overwhelm and slaughter your enemies easily. The insects die after a few seconds, and can be easily destroyed by area of effect damage. Their strength lies in numbers and the surprise factor. Once the effect is over, the swarm goes back to its regular respawn cycle. Insects spawned by the F5 skill depend directly on each individual minion type, and not just your current swarm type. The insects steal health from their targets to survive longer. You can also use glyphs to summon more minions, which will be automatically consumed if the insects are up. New venom slot skills let you infect your enemies so that additional insects hatch from them, injuring them in the process. You can also infect yourself as much as you want, sacrificing your own life to make the insect swarm even stronger.

    I have to say im not behind these changes because shroud was the first thing that drew me in to love necro as much as I currently do. I feel like we should not be trying to redesign every part of necro to mimic scourge in some way with tons of extra F profession skills and the culling of shroud

    More importantly this sounds like it could get visually out of hand in terms of numbers and would require more coding to work properly. (necro minon code is already shudderingly bad....) The devs also already have told us that its hard to change anything that lives in that profession bar area of the game because when it was designed it was not built to be easily changed or edited to heavily. I would keep that in mind when doing redesigns.

    Im not behind the flood of F skills on every spec on necro either, i like having my basic f1 skill and thats it. I dont have the quickest fingers or biggest hands so playing anything that starts reaching into f5 region is already hard enough not to mention shroud is almost thrown out of the map with all of these except on reaper and it sounds like would still get changed heavily by this redesign despite reaper itself being a ok spec.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    I sort of like this Idea, But I feel like Life Force should be used more like energy from GW1, since the entire point in GW1 was gain energy from Deaths.

    Maybe make the Idea about Changing Minions/shroud a trait such as Reaper grandmaster would be like - Bone shroud, Horror shroud, Blood Shroud. or something, where it just adds stats not necessarily an entirely different thing since you can't have no grandmaster Unless you want to lose traits.

    So perhaps keep it a life force pool, Make some skills Use it ( a bit like Initiative/energy from thief/rev), maybe Just remove shroud from 1 as you suggested BUT make it like F1 is Life Blast, F2 is Dark path etc, then reaper becoming oneshroud is like reapers being slowed but hihger damage, and scourges chaning from Death skills to Sand skills. It would also let them Do smaller changes ( plus make some legendaries better just for the fact you could swap legendaries and use F1 to see the projectile :3). But Honestly it's hard to "redesign" necro, as I can't really link GW1 or Gw2 necro together, Perhaps they could make a passive trait in each line add an effect to detah shroud, or the necro , or skills Just fo rhaving that , such as Deathmagic would give you 10% damage reduction just for taking it, Blood magic would let you heal from Kills just by taking it etc. To make it more of a Specialisation "feel".

    So I would guess something like:

    Spite: Damage is 10% stronger
    Curses: Conditions you apply are 10% stronger
    Death magic: Reduce Damage by 10%, Extra 1% per Minion
    Blood magic: Life steal per strike (2% of damage) and Heal from death
    Soul Reaping: Increase health of minions and Effect of other trait lines by 50%.
    ( Spite, Curses, Death, Reaper= 15%, Blood = 3% dmg heals,, Scourge = 33% movement speed)

    Reaper: Attack speed is 10% faster
    Scourge: Movement speed is 25% faster.

    Then give base necromancer more stability and keep them a "slow, focused caster" whereas Eles are Quick and versatile, and Mesmers are Agile and precise.

  • If I had to redesign the Necromancer, I'd have a whole defensive vampire themed mechanic around sacrificing health for delayed rewards, like damage, party support, etc, kind of like GW1's Blood Renewal, but maybe a little more support-role in mind. Hurting yourself to aid others would be a cool theme. I'd like a skill in which the longer you hold down, the more health you sacrifice, but with a payoff of doing more damage or support. A support type skill would be you take your dagger, stab yourself in the chest, summons a well around you as drain life, which does damage to foes but at the cost of your health, a support trait could be that it regenerates health to allies that are within the well. It could be an effect that happens continuously as you do it with a gradually increasing intervals of damage, or a payoff that happens after you finish holding down the button.

    I'd have necromancer's power themed around the idea of death through a thousand cuts where the damage builds up overtime with a couple of slow building skills that deal big damage like the second Reaper skill. Like the Axe 2, Ghastly Claws, would do increasingly more damage if above 50%, then if the target is below 50% by the time the skill ends, then it does burst damage at the end.

    For necromancer's condition, I'd have a similar theme of stacking but with blood and poison, except with a greater focus on the non-damage conditions so there's that slow constricting feeling. I like the elements of chilled, weakness, slow, cripple, immobile, blind, etc Like skills that do more conditions depending on certain circumstances, or add effects as time goes on. Like a Fear in which you get more conditions as you are feared.

    I'm really not that big of a fan of the idea of minion masters, even though people really seem to gravitate towards it. I feel like there needs to be some kind of mechanic in which you're intellectually more stimulated and not just letting them kill everything. I'd be up for something in which you're constantly like creating minions and and sacrificing them, it'd feel more active and menacing because you're really manipulating minions without the love and care that rangers have for their pets. Like instead of just blowing them up which is similar to Mesmer phantasm/clone system, perhaps like you could summon a minion, then have a series of skills activations/orders are more circumstantial so it's more fun and not as spammy (summon minion then explode).

    Like summon a minion, then a skill in which the minion leaps at the opponent, then bites/sucks the enemy's blood, then explodes, or have a minion that you order to toss its limbs at an opponent and each attack like lessens, like it throws its bladed arm at an enemy, then its other arm, then its head kind of like the skeletons from BotW.
    Thematic things in which you order your minion to sacrifice itself to do your bidding rather than raising a small army and letting them run around. In spitballing this idea, I actually would find this idea really fun and interesting and would actually play as a minion master.

    For the special mechanic, I really don't know, the second health bar can cause balance issues. Maybe the shroud health bar can depend on how much you health you have? I'd also have skills that change depending on what weapons you have so they can combine better depending on what your focus is. I'm sure all these suggestions are probably problematic in some way to anyone that's taken time to read this post.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 3, 2019

    Been a long time since my last take, so let's give it another round.


    Necromancer

    Death Shroud is no longer available for the core profession. Instead, the new mechanic is the swarm, which gives you control over a group of minions. There are four swarms to choose from:

    • Bone Swarm: Direct damage.
    • Flesh Swarm: Crowd control.
    • Plague Swarm: Condition damage.
    • Shadow Swarm: Support.

    Once you have selected a swarm, you can summon up to twelve minions at once. If you exceed this limit, the weakest minions will automatically explode.

    • F1: Damage up to five nearby enemies, and summon a minion for every affected enemy. Always summons a single minion, plus a maximum of five more for every affected target, for a total of six.
    • F2: Explode four minions. The weakest ones will be prioritized. Boost the rest of the minions.
    • F3: Order four minions to charge at the target enemy. The strongest ones will be prioritized.
    • F4: Merge minions. Two light minions become a medium minion, and two medium minions become a heavy minion. The limit of twelve total minions considers medium minions as two and heavy minions as four.

    There are three minion classes (light, medium, and heavy), each one having different combat skills. Swarm skills F2 and F3 trigger stronger effects depending on the minion class. For example, the F3 charge might include a bonus immobilize for the medium minions, and a bonus crowd control effect for the heavy minions. Minions of different classes have synergies with one another, and minion class variety is encouraged.

    Minions remain locked at combat with the selected target of their last action. Specific weapon and slot skills allow minion target swapping as well, either automatically or through optional chain skills.

    Spectral slot skills have been reclassified as cantrips. Minion slot skills have been replaced by enchantments (similar to thief venoms, affecting both the necromancer and his minions).


    Reaper

    You can transform into a wraith-like creature. The shroud transformation mechanic is back, located at F5.

    • F5: Reaper Shroud. Activate/Deactivate the shroud form. Resource required.
    • Life Force: New resource. Generated by minion deaths.

    Once Reaper Shroud is activated, both your weapon skills and your minion's skills will gain alternate effects (much like elementalist attunements). Staying in shroud form consumes life force, which also acts as a health shield. Shroud skills consume life force as well. Slot skills are available during shroud.

    The idea is to balance minion upkeep with sacrifices, and decide whether to use shroud for bonus damage or as a defensive measure. Gameplay focused solely on the shroud with a constant minion sacrifice is possible, but not entirely optimal.

    The new weapon is the greatsword, and shouts are the new slot skills.


    Scourge

    Minions have been replaced by Effigies. There's four sets of effigies to choose from, based on the four original swarms:

    • Bone Pillar: Direct damage.
    • Gnarled Tree: Crowd control.
    • Scarab Nest: Condition damage.
    • Sand Shade: Support.

    You can summon a maximum of three effigies at once.

    • F1: Summon effigy.
    • F2: Effigy skill #1.
    • F3: Effigy skill #2.
    • F4: Effigy skill #3.

    Effigy skills apply their effects on both the scourge and all active effigies at once.

    The idea is to exchange minion controls for a more precise point control gameplay, rewarding positioning much more.

    The new weapon is the torch. The new slot skills are consecrations, reclassified from punishments.


    I feel like this is much more solid than my previous ideas.

    @LeonLannister.9754 said:
    I'm really not that big of a fan of the idea of minion masters, even though people really seem to gravitate towards it. I feel like there needs to be some kind of mechanic in which you're intellectually more stimulated and not just letting them kill everything. I'd be up for something in which you're constantly like creating minions and and sacrificing them, it'd feel more active and menacing because you're really manipulating minions without the love and care that rangers have for their pets. Like instead of just blowing them up which is similar to Mesmer phantasm/clone system, perhaps like you could summon a minion, then have a series of skills activations/orders are more circumstantial so it's more fun and not as spammy (summon minion then explode).

    Like summon a minion, then a skill in which the minion leaps at the opponent, then bites/sucks the enemy's blood, then explodes, or have a minion that you order to toss its limbs at an opponent and each attack like lessens, like it throws its bladed arm at an enemy, then its other arm, then its head kind of like the skeletons from BotW.
    Thematic things in which you order your minion to sacrifice itself to do your bidding rather than raising a small army and letting them run around. In spitballing this idea, I actually would find this idea really fun and interesting and would actually play as a minion master.

    Yeah, I too think that should be the general idea behind minions. Cannon fodder you throw at your enemy, that won't get too dangerous unless you let the swarm grow too large.

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Problem with redesigns, this far into gw2's life is it will inevitably disappoint those asking for a redesign and also really skritt off players that are happy with the profession (like myself). Sure Necro could do with buffs here and there, maybe a few trait and skill revamps (looking at your focus 4), but a complete redesign is just a bad idea and waste of dev time.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Xxnecroxx.4039Xxnecroxx.4039 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 3, 2019

    A way I would rework necro is to remove the 2nd form of shroud and instead make death energy gathered used as a resource to cast more skills, no death energy no skills, this will increase damage but depending on elite spec, core necro it will increase boon corruption as in every skill will corrupt at least 1 boon but the skills themselves don't do much damage or apply much condi themselves, and some would be say single target or maybe a little survivability or even AoE corrupt etc, it would have to be played around but I would say 3-5 skills would be good to spend death energy on and for more balance you can always just increase or decrease the cost of these skills, but there is no transformation these are just extra skills basically, similar to warriors special ability for instance for the death magic energy, for reaper spec these would be more power based and apply chill, for scourge probably centered around barriers and condi cleanse or something along those lines, but to do this I would also take out some of baseline necro condi corrupt to help balance and even reworking some of the condi corrupt skills probably, and do a bit of splitting ofc between the different game modes, then probably increase the AA speed of scepter for necros, some balance tweeks to condi necro, this way it will move necro overall away from a boon corrupt bot to more condi but you can spec into a boon corrupt bot if you wish

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    More like it was in GW1. So more scourge like. I'd remove Shroud entirely, work in corpse exploitation some how and minions would snowball. The class would still be high health but be extremely glassy due to its life sacrifice and self inflicted conditions for its ability to be great at any cost. More or less. I've got into great detail about what I'd do in the past.

    But You can rest easy that I don't get to decide that for the game. Since I know a lot of reaper fans would be extremely upset. I'd find a place for you, but it wouldn't be on necromancer.

  • Arzurag.7506Arzurag.7506 Member ✭✭✭

    It´s good to see that we necromancers stick true to our profession.

    "I´m not big on sermons nor words, Broken bones teach better lessons and speak for themselves."

  • Shadowmoon.7986Shadowmoon.7986 Member ✭✭✭

    Remove second health bar with reaper shroud, allow use of all utilities. Have it act like celestrial avatar, but for damage not heals

  • Zex Anthon.8673Zex Anthon.8673 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    Remove second health bar with reaper shroud, allow use of all utilities. Have it act like celestrial avatar, but for damage not heals

    how about no

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