Vanilla Player just got back to the game...what the hell is this damage? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Vanilla Player just got back to the game...what the hell is this damage?

AllSins.3485AllSins.3485 Member ✭✭

Hey guys, i played the betas of this game, and for almost a year after it released , i only played WvWvW so i have no experience in PvE or Spvp.
Now my problem is this, i got into my Guardian ( core build ) i have full exotic Soldier Gear, thats 2,138 toughness , 3349 armor and 17k hp, this guy back in the day could survive Zergs, i mean wen i encountered the Enemy Train i was able to run back to my Train without dieing, for a looooooong time, now every 1vs1 skills me in 2 seconds, and im not even kidding...
What the hell happened to the damage in this game? It was completely impossible to kill a support Guardian 1vs1 back in the day, i would not kill you, but you would not kill me for sure.
Another thing Where is the Elite skill book? the one with Awesome healing?

What the hell happened to this game? WvWvW was awesome in Seafarers Rest with Zadrots, Red Guard etc etc so many awesome guilds, now i cant find 1 single WvWvW guild from back then and the game is kitten up, really killing people in full toughness gear in 2 seconds? what the hell Arena net....

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Comments

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd like to start but I wouldn't know where to begin sorry - perhaps the others would be more eloquent at describing the changes that have happened over time since you left. Sounds like a rather long time ago though, if you were talking about tomes? I wasn't around at the time so I can't relate to the changes.

  • Vermillion.4061Vermillion.4061 Member ✭✭✭

    Soldier guardian is obsolete nowadays. Everyone runs either Minstrel, Cele or a stat blend to simulate Cele if you are zerging. A lot of the survivability of guardian comes from healing now since toughness doesn't matter as much as it used to since 3+ Rev's pressing 2 on hammer at the same time can 100%->0% you even if you have 4k armor.

    Another change that has happened since you last played is condi getting insanely buffed a couple years ago (Recently got nerfed but it's still fairly powerful), burning/poison is a stackable condition now.

    Answering your question on where the elite skill book is;;; It was removed for Firebrand spec (The Path of Fire one)

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    I expected a full Toughness build to not die in 2 seconds, is this really ok? if so can you guys tell me what gear should we use now in WvW? and please do not say berserkers, i hope the game has not fallen that far, it reminds me of the vizunah noobs ^^ oldSchoolers will know what i mean ^^

    I never recommend anyone play in berserkers gear, unless they are experienced.

    To put it simply, class balance has become a joke.

    I was around during the old days, so I remember what it was like. Those times are long gone, so are many of those guilds and players. If you want to start playing again, treat it like a new game. Join a guild, check up on new guides and stuff.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • Ok guys thank you, i will bank the Soldier gear untill its usefull again, and buy another set, thanks a lot :)

  • Carighan.6758Carighan.6758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @X T D.6458 said:
    Um...did you just expect everything to be the same after 4 years? A lot of stuff changed.

    OTOH, few MMORPGs have a power excursion this big in someone's absence. Pre-HoT to current is night and day, it doesn't even feel like the same game as far as combat mechanics are concerned.

    Now, of course, if one likes super-fast-paced and initiative-decided/-won combat, it's awesome. If someone enjoyed the more attrition-focused pre-HoT combat, they'll feel super confused because they never knew the HoT power hike compared to which the current state is actually slower.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Carighan.6758 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:
    Um...did you just expect everything to be the same after 4 years? A lot of stuff changed.

    OTOH, few MMORPGs have a power excursion this big in someone's absence. Pre-HoT to current is night and day, it doesn't even feel like the same game as far as combat mechanics are concerned.

    Now, of course, if one likes super-fast-paced and initiative-decided/-won combat, it's awesome. If someone enjoyed the more attrition-focused pre-HoT combat, they'll feel super confused because they never knew the HoT power hike compared to which the current state is actually slower.

    I truly do love the combat system in this game, it is hands down the best of any game in my opinion. It is one of the reasons I have continued playing this for so long. Powercreep started long before HoT, it just introduced a lot of broken builds and the godawful boonshare/spam meta.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    Hey guys, i played the betas of this game, and for almost a year after it released , i only played WvWvW so i have no experience in PvE or Spvp.
    Now my problem is this, i got into my Guardian ( core build ) i have full exotic Soldier Gear, thats 2,138 toughness , 3349 armor and 17k hp, this guy back in the day could survive Zergs, i mean wen i encountered the Enemy Train i was able to run back to my Train without dieing, for a looooooong time, now every 1vs1 skills me in 2 seconds, and im not even kidding...
    What the hell happened to the damage in this game? It was completely impossible to kill a support Guardian 1vs1 back in the day, i would not kill you, but you would not kill me for sure.
    Another thing Where is the Elite skill book? the one with Awesome healing?

    What the hell happened to this game? WvWvW was awesome in Seafarers Rest with Zadrots, Red Guard etc etc so many awesome guilds, now i cant find 1 single WvWvW guild from back then and the game is kitten up, really killing people in full toughness gear in 2 seconds? what the hell Arena net....

    Do you really think its a reasonable design that a player can survive the onslaught from the entire front line of a Zerg? That would suggest god-mode 1v1.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    I'd like to start but I wouldn't know where to begin sorry - perhaps the others would be more eloquent at describing the changes that have happened over time since you left. Sounds like a rather long time ago though, if you were talking about tomes? I wasn't around at the time so I can't relate to the changes.

    Let’s start from the release of HoT and it’s DBL and power creep

    Power > Condition

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    I'd like to start but I wouldn't know where to begin sorry - perhaps the others would be more eloquent at describing the changes that have happened over time since you left. Sounds like a rather long time ago though, if you were talking about tomes? I wasn't around at the time so I can't relate to the changes.

    Let’s start from the release of HoT and it’s DBL and power creep

    Or lets go even further back to the skill and attribute change patches. Classes got three maxed out trees to play with instead of trying to balance 5 of them with a limited amount of points, plus we got the new ferocity stat that was supposed to reduce crit damage, but instead upped it.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vermillion.4061 said:
    Soldier guardian is obsolete nowadays. Everyone runs either Minstrel, Cele or a stat blend to simulate Cele if you are zerging. A lot of the survivability of guardian comes from healing now since toughness doesn't matter as much as it used to since 3+ Rev's pressing 2 on hammer at the same time can 100%->0% you even if you have 4k armor.

    Another change that has happened since you last played is condi getting insanely buffed a couple years ago (Recently got nerfed but it's still fairly powerful), burning/poison is a stackable condition now.

    Answering your question on where the elite skill book is;;; It was removed for Firebrand spec (The Path of Fire one)

    lol no, the tomes were removed in mid 2015. They got replaced by other elite skills, a sigil, a shout etc. They just re-introduced it somewhat with the new game mechanics of the new Guardian Elite Specialisation called 'Firebrand'.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's called conditions, they ignore armor/toughness.

    The first thing you need to do is adapt to the current meta. Back during vanilla when you were playing wvw was all about power. Things have changed in this regard. If every one were still running power, you'd still die faster than during vanilla but not as fast as against condi.

    Soldier gear is obsolete because it's essentially useless against condi builds (except for the vitality). People run more diverse gear with healing power and toughness and vitality as well as a lot more condi cleanse and blocks.

  • Miko.4158Miko.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    frontline is firebrand, spellbreaker, with the odd druid.
    you'll need resistance aswell.
    damage is mostly scourage with some mirage/ele.
    melee is hammer renegade.
    toughness has been replaced with a boon + cleanse battle.
    stabs is up and down its not as bad as it was , but pirateship meta where two zergs cant engage because the first one in range gets blasted to bits is a thing now.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Miko.4158 said:
    melee is hammer renegade.

    What is this alternate dimension WvW you are playing in, it intrigues me.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • @Miko.4158 said:
    frontline is firebrand, spellbreaker, with the odd druid.
    you'll need resistance aswell.
    damage is mostly scourage with some mirage/ele.
    melee is hammer renegade.
    toughness has been replaced with a boon + cleanse battle.
    stabs is up and down its not as bad as it was , but pirateship meta where two zergs cant engage because the first one in range gets blasted to bits is a thing now.

    Hahahaha this is so true man, Everytime my Zerg meets another one, half the zerg is dead before the "Clash" , i really think they need to tone down the damage, or make toughness do what it was suppose to do, mitigate damage, and i mean all damage, not only physical .

  • Miko.4158Miko.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    I check my damage, cor's back. I've had alot of it recently.....
    not many melee trains about , but hammer renegade is about.

  • Klipso.8653Klipso.8653 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Also with spellbreakers, zergbusting is back! You can take on a noticeably larger force now with the right squad comp and coordinated spellbreakers.

    -Balwarc [ICoa]

  • ProverbsofHell.2307ProverbsofHell.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Druids are definitely not part of the frontline. Don't expect to get in many squads as druid.

  • Miko.4158Miko.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    theres not stat mitigation for condi but rolling it into toughness would make toughness to powerful.
    people whinge because you need power/precision/ferocity to play power, and just condi damage and duration to play condi.
    which leaves room for more vitality/boon duration.

    resistance is the only hard counter availble, but it has a short uptime and is a utility.
    the counter to pirate is either winds of disenchantment or portal or a good tag zig zagging with a good frontline
    you cant boonball so much as boon corruption is a big thing.

  • Yeah, condition damage is crazy for what i can see, it seems like the Zerg with most Scourge necros Wins, the amount of red circles on the floor is kitten, you cant take a step anywhere without being in a red circle, this is so different from back in the day, i really need to adapt ^^

  • Offair.2563Offair.2563 Member ✭✭✭

    Simple answer; Anet ramped up the damage while leaving toughness and your hp nearly the same. Also boosted condi dmg which completely ignores toughness.

    Welcome in the 1 shot / overload by condis era.

    Don't argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and own you with experience.
    Big Babou, Ranger for life.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    Hey guys, i played the betas of this game, and for almost a year after it released , i only played WvWvW so i have no experience in PvE or Spvp.
    Now my problem is this, i got into my Guardian ( core build ) i have full exotic Soldier Gear, thats 2,138 toughness , 3349 armor and 17k hp, this guy back in the day could survive Zergs, i mean wen i encountered the Enemy Train i was able to run back to my Train without dieing, for a looooooong time, now every 1vs1 skills me in 2 seconds, and im not even kidding...
    What the hell happened to the damage in this game? It was completely impossible to kill a support Guardian 1vs1 back in the day, i would not kill you, but you would not kill me for sure.
    Another thing Where is the Elite skill book? the one with Awesome healing?

    What the hell happened to this game? WvWvW was awesome in Seafarers Rest with Zadrots, Red Guard etc etc so many awesome guilds, now i cant find 1 single WvWvW guild from back then and the game is kitten up, really killing people in full toughness gear in 2 seconds? what the hell Arena net....

    Welcome back!
    1) Elite Specs happened, and they fixed condis to actually do their work. So yeah damage ramped up a lot.

    2)The skill books were turned into 2 new skills. A Signet that does the 100% heal skill when activated, and Heals over time when passive. And a shout that gives quickness and fury to people around you for the offensive book.
    Also the latest Elite spec has it's F skills turned into books that revise some of the stuff we could do with the old ones.

    3) I wasn't really active in WvW so i'm not privvy to details. But what i heard is there was some falling out between the main WvW guilds in SFR. So most of them migrated to other worlds, and even some individuals began to actively try to sabotage SFR, we had people asking for donations so they would buy accounts to fill up SFR with alts (good thing that after megaservers it's the average WvW participation that rules if a server is empty or full). There was some talk that a couple of the guilds were "bought out", as in paid to move to other servers. But i'm not sure how credible those claims are.
    And right after that break HoT happened, Desert Borderlands happened, and WvW kinda died out, which ended SFR's reign as uncontested #1 World.

    4) Toughness never prevented Condi damage. Full zerker isn't the only damage spec any more, also Soldiers isn't "full toughness", never was.

  • @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    Hey guys, i played the betas of this game, and for almost a year after it released , i only played WvWvW so i have no experience in PvE or Spvp.
    Now my problem is this, i got into my Guardian ( core build ) i have full exotic Soldier Gear, thats 2,138 toughness , 3349 armor and 17k hp, this guy back in the day could survive Zergs, i mean wen i encountered the Enemy Train i was able to run back to my Train without dieing, for a looooooong time, now every 1vs1 skills me in 2 seconds, and im not even kidding...
    What the hell happened to the damage in this game? It was completely impossible to kill a support Guardian 1vs1 back in the day, i would not kill you, but you would not kill me for sure.
    Another thing Where is the Elite skill book? the one with Awesome healing?

    What the hell happened to this game? WvWvW was awesome in Seafarers Rest with Zadrots, Red Guard etc etc so many awesome guilds, now i cant find 1 single WvWvW guild from back then and the game is kitten up, really killing people in full toughness gear in 2 seconds? what the hell Arena net....

    Welcome back!
    1) Elite Specs happened, and they fixed condis to actually do their work. So yeah damage ramped up a lot.

    2)The skill books were turned into 2 new skills. A Signet that does the 100% heal skill when activated, and Heals over time when passive. And a shout that gives quickness and fury to people around you for the offensive book.
    Also the latest Elite spec has it's F skills turned into books that revise some of the stuff we could do with the old ones.

    3) I wasn't really active in WvW so i'm not privvy to details. But what i heard is there was some falling out between the main WvW guilds in SFR. So most of them migrated to other worlds, and even some individuals began to actively try to sabotage SFR, we had people asking for donations so they would buy accounts to fill up SFR with alts (good thing that after megaservers it's the average WvW participation that rules if a server is empty or full). There was some talk that a couple of the guilds were "bought out", as in paid to move to other servers. But i'm not sure how credible those claims are.
    And right after that break HoT happened, Desert Borderlands happened, and WvW kinda died out, which ended SFR's reign as uncontested #1 World.

    4) Toughness never prevented Condi damage. Full zerker isn't the only damage spec any more, also Soldiers isn't "full toughness", never was.

    What i meant by full toughness is every single piece of gear i have has toughness in it, my full gear is Soldiers, so full toughness ^^
    Yeah i was used at being #1 in the world over and over again, our Pugs completely destroyed every single Guild apart from Golden Horde i think it was the name.

    Im not even talking about our guilds which were extremely good at pvp, im talking random groups of people destroying organized guilds, this server changed a lot.
    I will buy Path of fire and join the Condi Spam, what else can i do? is there any Class/spec that can deal with all this condition damage spam?

  • @Offair.2563 said:
    Simple answer; Anet ramped up the damage while leaving toughness and your hp nearly the same. Also boosted condi dmg which completely ignores toughness.

    Welcome in the 1 shot / overload by condis era.

    yeah condition damage is out of control, also what the hell is a holosmith? everytime i see one of those guys i get deleted in 1 second hahaha

  • @AllSins.3485 said:
    Yeah, condition damage is crazy for what i can see, it seems like the Zerg with most Scourge necros Wins, the amount of red circles on the floor is kitten, you cant take a step anywhere without being in a red circle, this is so different from back in the day, i really need to adapt ^^

    Been back for a month and yup Meta or Die in this new GW2. Gone are the days where you could have fun building your own unique build and still be viable. You must adapt and run metabattle builds or tweak them a little, other than that it's gg.

  • @warlordo.9576 said:

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    Yeah, condition damage is crazy for what i can see, it seems like the Zerg with most Scourge necros Wins, the amount of red circles on the floor is kitten, you cant take a step anywhere without being in a red circle, this is so different from back in the day, i really need to adapt ^^

    Been back for a month and yup Meta or Die in this new GW2. Gone are the days where you could have fun building your own unique build and still be viable. You must adapt and run metabattle builds or tweak them a little, other than that it's gg.

    That is what i will do, cant beat them, join them ^^

  • arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    Hey guys, i played the betas of this game, and for almost a year after it released , i only played WvWvW so i have no experience in PvE or Spvp.
    Now my problem is this, i got into my Guardian ( core build ) i have full exotic Soldier Gear, thats 2,138 toughness , 3349 armor and 17k hp, this guy back in the day could survive Zergs, i mean wen i encountered the Enemy Train i was able to run back to my Train without dieing, for a looooooong time, now every 1vs1 skills me in 2 seconds, and im not even kidding...
    What the hell happened to the damage in this game? It was completely impossible to kill a support Guardian 1vs1 back in the day, i would not kill you, but you would not kill me for sure.
    Another thing Where is the Elite skill book? the one with Awesome healing?

    What the hell happened to this game? WvWvW was awesome in Seafarers Rest with Zadrots, Red Guard etc etc so many awesome guilds, now i cant find 1 single WvWvW guild from back then and the game is kitten up, really killing people in full toughness gear in 2 seconds? what the hell Arena net....

    a few things changed

    1. current meta is condition dmg which ignores toughness and armor. the only counters are vitality and condition removal. this really hurts guardian, and even more cause poison cuts healing
    2. theres ALOT more stuns now. this, combined with the fact that stability was nerfed to be "1 stability stops 1 stun", when in the past it was "1 stability = immune to all stuns for the duration of stablity) this is probably whats killing you
    3. the game is ALOT more mobile now. first year most people had 0% boost to mobility, or 10%. only thief had 25%. now, all classes have some form of permanent speed boost, have alot more swiftness choices, and have reduction to duration of movement debuffs. leading to faster movign zergs
    4. people basically all have exotic to ascended now. in first year people were still using uncommon, rare, and maybe some exotic. and alot of people were not lv 80. but now everyone is 80, everyone is fully decked out.
    5. people have mastered the high dmg burst on single targets. they've had years to perfect this. and they have.

    as for your last question: gotta move to one of the active WvW servers like Blackgate. but in general, these servers have been locked by Anet to not let anyone join (Jade Quarry had a massive protest over this and dropped to tier 4)

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AllSins.3485 said:

    @Offair.2563 said:
    Simple answer; Anet ramped up the damage while leaving toughness and your hp nearly the same. Also boosted condi dmg which completely ignores toughness.

    Welcome in the 1 shot / overload by condis era.

    yeah condition damage is out of control, also what the hell is a holosmith? everytime i see one of those guys i get deleted in 1 second hahaha

    Holosmith is the latest Engineer Elite.
    Firebrands and Tempests can deal with condis pretty well. Also you're out of practice, so you don't know what to move away from... A lot of the main condi offenders are kind of easy to avoid.

    @warlordo.9576 said:

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    Yeah, condition damage is crazy for what i can see, it seems like the Zerg with most Scourge necros Wins, the amount of red circles on the floor is kitten, you cant take a step anywhere without being in a red circle, this is so different from back in the day, i really need to adapt ^^

    Been back for a month and yup Meta or Die in this new GW2. Gone are the days where you could have fun building your own unique build and still be viable. You must adapt and run metabattle builds or tweak them a little, other than that it's gg.

    Not true. I run Core ranger for WvW roams sometimes. Works better than a lot of meta builds.> @arenta.2953 said:

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    Hey guys, i played the betas of this game, and for almost a year after it released , i only played WvWvW so i have no experience in PvE or Spvp.
    Now my problem is this, i got into my Guardian ( core build ) i have full exotic Soldier Gear, thats 2,138 toughness , 3349 armor and 17k hp, this guy back in the day could survive Zergs, i mean wen i encountered the Enemy Train i was able to run back to my Train without dieing, for a looooooong time, now every 1vs1 skills me in 2 seconds, and im not even kidding...
    What the hell happened to the damage in this game? It was completely impossible to kill a support Guardian 1vs1 back in the day, i would not kill you, but you would not kill me for sure.
    Another thing Where is the Elite skill book? the one with Awesome healing?

    What the hell happened to this game? WvWvW was awesome in Seafarers Rest with Zadrots, Red Guard etc etc so many awesome guilds, now i cant find 1 single WvWvW guild from back then and the game is kitten up, really killing people in full toughness gear in 2 seconds? what the hell Arena net....

    a few things changed

    1. current meta is condition dmg which ignores toughness and armor. the only counters are vitality and condition removal. this really hurts guardian, and even more cause poison cuts healing
    2. theres ALOT more stuns now. this, combined with the fact that stability was nerfed to be "1 stability stops 1 stun", when in the past it was "1 stability = immune to all stuns for the duration of stablity) this is probably whats killing you
    3. the game is ALOT more mobile now. first year most people had 0% boost to mobility, or 10%. only thief had 25%. now, all classes have some form of permanent speed boost, have alot more swiftness choices, and have reduction to duration of movement debuffs. leading to faster movign zergs
    4. people basically all have exotic to ascended now. in first year people were still using uncommon, rare, and maybe some exotic. and alot of people were not lv 80. but now everyone is 80, everyone is fully decked out.
    5. people have mastered the high dmg burst on single targets. they've had years to perfect this. and they have.

    as for your last question: gotta move to one of the active WvW servers like Blackgate. but in general, these servers have been locked by Anet to not let anyone join (Jade Quarry had a massive protest over this and dropped to tier 4)

    You're right about most things, but dude, that last part... Bandwagoning is what's killing WvW good job advising making it worse. I still play SFR. When it's good its great, problem is when it's bad it's really bad. SFR got to first place on its own with medium capacity vs full servers, and then people started bandwagoning to it. And if you want the truth, that was when i started playing WvW less and less. My plan of building a thief from 0-80 to full gear in WvW only, went to deleting the thief to get a keyfarm slot, to recently boosting one to 80. In the tournaments the best times for me was when we already had the points to win, and people would drop participation on the couple days before reset.

    Even nowadays there's still a lot of good commanders in SFR. It's just that now most of the original WvW community isn't even playing regardless of the server, and a lot of the people in WvW are just PvE players waiting for their PPTs. Which is why the bandwagoning server win. Because they have numbers. SFR always won even when outnumbered, but nowadays, there's simply not enough good WvWers left. And not even PvP will help since that's a dying mode as well.

  • arenta.2953arenta.2953 Member ✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @AllSins.3485 said:

    @Offair.2563 said:
    Simple answer; Anet ramped up the damage while leaving toughness and your hp nearly the same. Also boosted condi dmg which completely ignores toughness.

    Welcome in the 1 shot / overload by condis era.

    yeah condition damage is out of control, also what the hell is a holosmith? everytime i see one of those guys i get deleted in 1 second hahaha

    Holosmith is the latest Engineer Elite.
    Firebrands and Tempests can deal with condis pretty well. Also you're out of practice, so you don't know what to move away from... A lot of the main condi offenders are kind of easy to avoid.

    @warlordo.9576 said:

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    Yeah, condition damage is crazy for what i can see, it seems like the Zerg with most Scourge necros Wins, the amount of red circles on the floor is kitten, you cant take a step anywhere without being in a red circle, this is so different from back in the day, i really need to adapt ^^

    Been back for a month and yup Meta or Die in this new GW2. Gone are the days where you could have fun building your own unique build and still be viable. You must adapt and run metabattle builds or tweak them a little, other than that it's gg.

    Not true. I run Core ranger for WvW roams sometimes. Works better than a lot of meta builds.> @arenta.2953 said:

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    Hey guys, i played the betas of this game, and for almost a year after it released , i only played WvWvW so i have no experience in PvE or Spvp.
    Now my problem is this, i got into my Guardian ( core build ) i have full exotic Soldier Gear, thats 2,138 toughness , 3349 armor and 17k hp, this guy back in the day could survive Zergs, i mean wen i encountered the Enemy Train i was able to run back to my Train without dieing, for a looooooong time, now every 1vs1 skills me in 2 seconds, and im not even kidding...
    What the hell happened to the damage in this game? It was completely impossible to kill a support Guardian 1vs1 back in the day, i would not kill you, but you would not kill me for sure.
    Another thing Where is the Elite skill book? the one with Awesome healing?

    What the hell happened to this game? WvWvW was awesome in Seafarers Rest with Zadrots, Red Guard etc etc so many awesome guilds, now i cant find 1 single WvWvW guild from back then and the game is kitten up, really killing people in full toughness gear in 2 seconds? what the hell Arena net....

    a few things changed

    1. current meta is condition dmg which ignores toughness and armor. the only counters are vitality and condition removal. this really hurts guardian, and even more cause poison cuts healing
    2. theres ALOT more stuns now. this, combined with the fact that stability was nerfed to be "1 stability stops 1 stun", when in the past it was "1 stability = immune to all stuns for the duration of stablity) this is probably whats killing you
    3. the game is ALOT more mobile now. first year most people had 0% boost to mobility, or 10%. only thief had 25%. now, all classes have some form of permanent speed boost, have alot more swiftness choices, and have reduction to duration of movement debuffs. leading to faster movign zergs
    4. people basically all have exotic to ascended now. in first year people were still using uncommon, rare, and maybe some exotic. and alot of people were not lv 80. but now everyone is 80, everyone is fully decked out.
    5. people have mastered the high dmg burst on single targets. they've had years to perfect this. and they have.

    as for your last question: gotta move to one of the active WvW servers like Blackgate. but in general, these servers have been locked by Anet to not let anyone join (Jade Quarry had a massive protest over this and dropped to tier 4)

    You're right about most things, but dude, that last part... Bandwagoning is what's killing WvW good job advising making it worse. I still play SFR. When it's good its great, problem is when it's bad it's really bad. SFR got to first place on its own with medium capacity vs full servers, and then people started bandwagoning to it. And if you want the truth, that was when i started playing WvW less and less. My plan of building a thief from 0-80 to full gear in WvW only, went to deleting the thief to get a keyfarm slot, to recently boosting one to 80. In the tournaments the best times for me was when we already had the points to win, and people would drop participation on the couple days before reset.

    Even nowadays there's still a lot of good commanders in SFR. It's just that now most of the original WvW community isn't even playing regardless of the server, and a lot of the people in WvW are just PvE players waiting for their PPTs. Which is why the bandwagoning server win. Because they have numbers. SFR always won even when outnumbered, but nowadays, there's simply not enough good WvWers left. And not even PvP will help since that's a dying mode as well.

    aye. Jade Quarry is facing a similar issue. despite being one of the main WvW servers, its also one of the largest PVE servers. and because of this PvE, the WvW has struggle for numbers. hence the JQ protest of not participating in WvW for a while, and dropping to tier 4.

    hopefully they'll come up with a better solution

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @arenta.2953 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @AllSins.3485 said:

    @Offair.2563 said:
    Simple answer; Anet ramped up the damage while leaving toughness and your hp nearly the same. Also boosted condi dmg which completely ignores toughness.

    Welcome in the 1 shot / overload by condis era.

    yeah condition damage is out of control, also what the hell is a holosmith? everytime i see one of those guys i get deleted in 1 second hahaha

    Holosmith is the latest Engineer Elite.
    Firebrands and Tempests can deal with condis pretty well. Also you're out of practice, so you don't know what to move away from... A lot of the main condi offenders are kind of easy to avoid.

    @warlordo.9576 said:

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    Yeah, condition damage is crazy for what i can see, it seems like the Zerg with most Scourge necros Wins, the amount of red circles on the floor is kitten, you cant take a step anywhere without being in a red circle, this is so different from back in the day, i really need to adapt ^^

    Been back for a month and yup Meta or Die in this new GW2. Gone are the days where you could have fun building your own unique build and still be viable. You must adapt and run metabattle builds or tweak them a little, other than that it's gg.

    Not true. I run Core ranger for WvW roams sometimes. Works better than a lot of meta builds.> @arenta.2953 said:

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    Hey guys, i played the betas of this game, and for almost a year after it released , i only played WvWvW so i have no experience in PvE or Spvp.
    Now my problem is this, i got into my Guardian ( core build ) i have full exotic Soldier Gear, thats 2,138 toughness , 3349 armor and 17k hp, this guy back in the day could survive Zergs, i mean wen i encountered the Enemy Train i was able to run back to my Train without dieing, for a looooooong time, now every 1vs1 skills me in 2 seconds, and im not even kidding...
    What the hell happened to the damage in this game? It was completely impossible to kill a support Guardian 1vs1 back in the day, i would not kill you, but you would not kill me for sure.
    Another thing Where is the Elite skill book? the one with Awesome healing?

    What the hell happened to this game? WvWvW was awesome in Seafarers Rest with Zadrots, Red Guard etc etc so many awesome guilds, now i cant find 1 single WvWvW guild from back then and the game is kitten up, really killing people in full toughness gear in 2 seconds? what the hell Arena net....

    a few things changed

    1. current meta is condition dmg which ignores toughness and armor. the only counters are vitality and condition removal. this really hurts guardian, and even more cause poison cuts healing
    2. theres ALOT more stuns now. this, combined with the fact that stability was nerfed to be "1 stability stops 1 stun", when in the past it was "1 stability = immune to all stuns for the duration of stablity) this is probably whats killing you
    3. the game is ALOT more mobile now. first year most people had 0% boost to mobility, or 10%. only thief had 25%. now, all classes have some form of permanent speed boost, have alot more swiftness choices, and have reduction to duration of movement debuffs. leading to faster movign zergs
    4. people basically all have exotic to ascended now. in first year people were still using uncommon, rare, and maybe some exotic. and alot of people were not lv 80. but now everyone is 80, everyone is fully decked out.
    5. people have mastered the high dmg burst on single targets. they've had years to perfect this. and they have.

    as for your last question: gotta move to one of the active WvW servers like Blackgate. but in general, these servers have been locked by Anet to not let anyone join (Jade Quarry had a massive protest over this and dropped to tier 4)

    You're right about most things, but dude, that last part... Bandwagoning is what's killing WvW good job advising making it worse. I still play SFR. When it's good its great, problem is when it's bad it's really bad. SFR got to first place on its own with medium capacity vs full servers, and then people started bandwagoning to it. And if you want the truth, that was when i started playing WvW less and less. My plan of building a thief from 0-80 to full gear in WvW only, went to deleting the thief to get a keyfarm slot, to recently boosting one to 80. In the tournaments the best times for me was when we already had the points to win, and people would drop participation on the couple days before reset.

    Even nowadays there's still a lot of good commanders in SFR. It's just that now most of the original WvW community isn't even playing regardless of the server, and a lot of the people in WvW are just PvE players waiting for their PPTs. Which is why the bandwagoning server win. Because they have numbers. SFR always won even when outnumbered, but nowadays, there's simply not enough good WvWers left. And not even PvP will help since that's a dying mode as well.

    aye. Jade Quarry is facing a similar issue. despite being one of the main WvW servers, its also one of the largest PVE servers. and because of this PvE, the WvW has struggle for numbers. hence the JQ protest of not participating in WvW for a while, and dropping to tier 4.

    hopefully they'll come up with a better solution

    As i see it the harm is done. The solution would have been to give bonuses for representing a world for a long time, getting better the longer you're there.
    But even if they have a way to retroactively do this, the bandwagoning issue has been prevalent for so long that it wouldn't make a difference, really.

  • Hiraldo.7954Hiraldo.7954 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    @warlordo.9576 said:

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    Yeah, condition damage is crazy for what i can see, it seems like the Zerg with most Scourge necros Wins, the amount of red circles on the floor is kitten, you cant take a step anywhere without being in a red circle, this is so different from back in the day, i really need to adapt ^^

    Been back for a month and yup Meta or Die in this new GW2. Gone are the days where you could have fun building your own unique build and still be viable. You must adapt and run metabattle builds or tweak them a little, other than that it's gg.

    This is simply not true, while you can't run whatever you want and expect to do fine, there's a lot of room for theorycrafting and metabattle is still outdated as it probably always will be. Just theorycraft good builds and be smart enough to know if what you're running is actually good or if you'd be better off running something from metabattle.

    [KEK] [kitten] [KRAB] [TTD] [TG] | Fort Aspenwood

  • If Anet would just add a condi block or reduction to some of the core guardian skills we could actually survive. For example if renewed focus also blocked condi we might actually survive but it only removes condi. Right now all we can do is block damage, pushing, pulling, fearing, taunting, but not condi block or reduction, only removal. With all this condi we really need a block or reduction because by the time you try to remove all the condi on you it's to late. Condi classes have the ability to block physical damage so why do we not have the ability to block condi damage? Maybe the problem isn't reducing condi but giving other classes better skills to deal with it. Coms are handing out condi reduction food right and left because we have no skills to deal with it. Welcome back to the game.

  • Cirrion.8951Cirrion.8951 Member ✭✭✭

    @Carighan.6758 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:
    Um...did you just expect everything to be the same after 4 years? A lot of stuff changed.

    OTOH, few MMORPGs have a power excursion this big in someone's absence. Pre-HoT to current is night and day, it doesn't even feel like the same game as far as combat mechanics are concerned.

    Now, of course, if one likes super-fast-paced and initiative-decided/-won combat, it's awesome. If someone enjoyed the more attrition-focused pre-HoT combat, they'll feel super confused because they never knew the HoT power hike compared to which the current state is actually slower.

    Most MMORPGSs would have had a much higher level of power creep over the course of two expansions than GW2 has had, either in the form of level cap increases or new tiers of gear that completely outclass pre-expansion gear or both.

  • Cirrion.8951Cirrion.8951 Member ✭✭✭

    @SnowPumpkin.1809 said:
    If Anet would just add a condi block or reduction to some of the core guardian skills we could actually survive. For example if renewed focus also blocked condi we might actually survive but it only removes condi. Right now all we can do is block damage, pushing, pulling, fearing, taunting, but not condi block or reduction, only removal. With all this condi we really need a block or reduction because by the time you try to remove all the condi on you it's to late. Condi classes have the ability to block physical damage so why do we not have the ability to block condi damage? Maybe the problem isn't reducing condi but giving other classes better skills to deal with it. Coms are handing out condi reduction food right and left because we have no skills to deal with it. Welcome back to the game.

    Most condi applications are tied to being hit by a skill of some sort. You can block the condi by blocking the skill that applies it.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    @Carighan.6758 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:
    Um...did you just expect everything to be the same after 4 years? A lot of stuff changed.

    OTOH, few MMORPGs have a power excursion this big in someone's absence. Pre-HoT to current is night and day, it doesn't even feel like the same game as far as combat mechanics are concerned.

    I beg to differ. DAoC had Trials of Atlantis, an incredible power-creep that far surpassed GW2/HOT powercreep: completely ruining the game for a large enough portion of players that Mythic actually created servers that did not include the expansion. WoW had every expansion offering green gear that could be equipped at prior-xpac levels that was much better than even previous max-level Epics and Legendaries. And Shadowbane's Rise of Chaos was equally laughable powercreep.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cirrion.8951 said:

    @SnowPumpkin.1809 said:
    If Anet would just add a condi block or reduction to some of the core guardian skills we could actually survive. For example if renewed focus also blocked condi we might actually survive but it only removes condi. Right now all we can do is block damage, pushing, pulling, fearing, taunting, but not condi block or reduction, only removal. With all this condi we really need a block or reduction because by the time you try to remove all the condi on you it's to late. Condi classes have the ability to block physical damage so why do we not have the ability to block condi damage? Maybe the problem isn't reducing condi but giving other classes better skills to deal with it. Coms are handing out condi reduction food right and left because we have no skills to deal with it. Welcome back to the game.

    Most condi applications are tied to being hit by a skill of some sort. You can block the condi by blocking the skill that applies it.

    But blocking condi skills isnt enough, we really need what that guy is suggesting. Something like a boon that totally blocks condi dmg? Oh oh we could call it "resistance"! I'm brilliant.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    Anet decided to go the game for badies to avoid bad players leaving the game and increases the power creep and spam since the Gw veterans were abandoning a possible Titanic.

    Well pvp and WvW wise.. titanic alread left and sunk... this is a pve game after all.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The main thing that changed is expecting a single stat like toughness to carry you through against players that kept playing and thus know more of the synergy between current traits, skills, and gear that changes have brought. Metas have changed. In WvW today you find many more veteran players than you would have in the first year of launch. Also there's less diversity in what you encounter as meta builds get published online, but the good news is you too can check out these builds online to relearn what works and what doesn't.

  • Im sorry guys i have no idea where to ask this, so my Soldier's gear is awefull, i wanted to craft a new one, for that i had to lvl up my armorsmith, so i went to armorsmith Station where it says i have a skill of 304/400, the thing is on my production Tab i have absolutely nothing, how can i have 304/400 Amrmorsmith skill and Know absolutely no recipes ?
    I then entered on my warrior who has 205 armor smith and everything was there, also my guardian has 398/400 jewel crafting and every recipe is there, why is my armorsmith tab showing absolutely no recipes on my guardian with 304 skill?

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    Hey guys, i played the betas of this game, and for almost a year after it released , i only played WvWvW so i have no experience in PvE or Spvp.
    Now my problem is this, i got into my Guardian ( core build ) i have full exotic Soldier Gear, thats 2,138 toughness , 3349 armor and 17k hp, this guy back in the day could survive Zergs, i mean wen i encountered the Enemy Train i was able to run back to my Train without dieing, for a looooooong time, now every 1vs1 skills me in 2 seconds, and im not even kidding...
    What the hell happened to the damage in this game? It was completely impossible to kill a support Guardian 1vs1 back in the day, i would not kill you, but you would not kill me for sure.
    Another thing Where is the Elite skill book? the one with Awesome healing?

    ow> What the hell happened to this game? WvWvW was awesome in Seafarers Rest with Zadrots, Red Guard etc etc so many awesome guilds, now i cant find 1 single WvWvW guild from back then and the game is kitten up, really killing people in full toughness gear in 2 seconds? what the hell Arena net....

    welcome back. =) adjust to the new game mechanics. you will be juat fine.z

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    Im sorry guys i have no idea where to ask this, so my Soldier's gear is awefull, i wanted to craft a new one, for that i had to lvl up my armorsmith, so i went to armorsmith Station where it says i have a skill of 304/400, the thing is on my production Tab i have absolutely nothing, how can i have 304/400 Amrmorsmith skill and Know absolutely no recipes ?
    I then entered on my warrior who has 205 armor smith and everything was there, also my guardian has 398/400 jewel crafting and every recipe is there, why is my armorsmith tab showing absolutely no recipes on my guardian with 304 skill?

    Likely it's because you have another crafting discipline active.

    Talk to the Armorsnith vendor and he asks you if you want to become an armorsmith. (Usually it is around 50 s) If you have too many active, he'll ask if you want to deactivate one of them. Say yes, and you should be able to see your recipes.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    Im sorry guys i have no idea where to ask this, so my Soldier's gear is awefull, i wanted to craft a new one, for that i had to lvl up my armorsmith, so i went to armorsmith Station where it says i have a skill of 304/400, the thing is on my production Tab i have absolutely nothing, how can i have 304/400 Amrmorsmith skill and Know absolutely no recipes ?
    I then entered on my warrior who has 205 armor smith and everything was there, also my guardian has 398/400 jewel crafting and every recipe is there, why is my armorsmith tab showing absolutely no recipes on my guardian with 304 skill?

    Likely it's because you have another crafting discipline active.

    Talk to the Armorsnith vendor and he asks you if you want to become an armorsmith. (Usually it is around 50 s) If you have too many active, he'll ask if you want to deactivate one of them. Say yes, and you should be able to see your recipes.

    I will try that, thanks a lot :)

  • @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @AllSins.3485 said:
    Hey guys, i played the betas of this game, and for almost a year after it released , i only played WvWvW so i have no experience in PvE or Spvp.
    Now my problem is this, i got into my Guardian ( core build ) i have full exotic Soldier Gear, thats 2,138 toughness , 3349 armor and 17k hp, this guy back in the day could survive Zergs, i mean wen i encountered the Enemy Train i was able to run back to my Train without dieing, for a looooooong time, now every 1vs1 skills me in 2 seconds, and im not even kidding...
    What the hell happened to the damage in this game? It was completely impossible to kill a support Guardian 1vs1 back in the day, i would not kill you, but you would not kill me for sure.
    Another thing Where is the Elite skill book? the one with Awesome healing?

    ow> What the hell happened to this game? WvWvW was awesome in Seafarers Rest with Zadrots, Red Guard etc etc so many awesome guilds, now i cant find 1 single WvWvW guild from back then and the game is kitten up, really killing people in full toughness gear in 2 seconds? what the hell Arena net....

    welcome back. =) adjust to the new game mechanics. you will be juat fine.z

    Thank you :), yeah there are a lot of builds i want to try :)

  • Kaggura.4839Kaggura.4839 Member
    edited January 5, 2018

    On a quick note, if possible try to get the newest elite specs for your characters // I've found that GW2 tends to make the newest expansion's elite specs a bit more powerful than the core specs, and these turn into the meta (for WvW, at least...not counting deadeye....was sooooo disappointed with that). For example, I find Mirage a better roamer given all the new skills it has and great evasion/stunbreak/invulnerability. Same goes for the scourge on my necro. Picking up one of the new elites would probably help with the new WvW meta to become about where you were before. Only issue with this may be having the hero points to get the new specs and then getting more hero points to skill them up, but you actually can get hero points just by playing in WvW now, so that's a plus. However, PvE will always be faster if you can find people doing a HP farm in the HoT areas, etc. Be sure to play the very first part of PoF to get a mount, though ^^

    I played since launch and remember the days you are referring to - back when we had to buy skill books to level up skills and such. The WvW environment has changed tons, and gotta adapt :) Plus, if you are able, maybe just buy the exotic gear you need off the auction - in some ways it may cost you more to level your crafting than to get 2 full sets of gear plus decent sigils/runes ^_^v Good luck!

  • Klipso.8653Klipso.8653 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018

    @Kaggura.4839 said:
    On a quick note, if possible try to get the newest elite specs for your characters // I've found that GW2 tends to make the newest expansion's elite specs a bit more powerful than the core specs, and these turn into the meta (for WvW, at least...not counting deadeye....was sooooo disappointed with that). For example, I find Mirage a better roamer given all the new skills it has and great evasion/stunbreak/invulnerability. Same goes for the scourge on my necro.

    Personally for my squad I'd rather have the HoT elites for ranger, mesmer, revenant, or elementalist than their PoF ones.

    Now for guardian, engineer, thief, necro, or warrior id rather have the PoF elites join us.

    But that's from a squad standpoint, not roaming.

    -Balwarc [ICoa]

  • @Klipso.8653 said:

    But that's from a squad standpoint, not roaming.

    Ah yep - I wasn't sure what the OP was into (zerg, havoc, roaming) // I mostly meant from my own standpoint of either roaming (hybrid Mirage) or zerg (Scourge or backline ele for me). I'm thinking he is mostly talking zerg play, though, but as you say, it is all situational based on what people are doing as to their composition and spec ^_^v

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    June 23rd 2015 - traits revamped, conditions now over 9000!
    October 23rd 2015 - broken elite and broken stat specs enter.
    September 22nd 2017 - more broken elite specs enter.

    Welcome back, enjoy the one shot skills and combos and ebolaids conditions.

    Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" - "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon." - "Woo!"
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WaH!"
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||