Balance Patch was obvious Necro-hate patch - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Balance Patch was obvious Necro-hate patch

2>

Comments

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2017

    @Genesis.5169 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    To be fair, I think the statement that should be made is that Scourge should have never been the Condi Bomber that it was .. and that's not just made up either ... Anet confirmed with the last patch they don't want conditions to be burst damage ...

    So let's play nice and not challenge EVERY statement people make with the need for a 'citation' when we all know these things for FACTS that Anet has very plainly given to us in statements they made only very recently shall we?

    No what we know is they don't want condition damage bursting, what the other guy said is scourge was meant to be a support role to help Necros get into more positions in the game. Those two things are not equivalent, your so called "facts" are no there just people making things up. Absurd things like that need to be challenged plenty of people on the forums read here an do not post I would rather not have some one spread misinformation because he's salty about a class.

    No, it is indeed a fact that if Scourge was condi bombing, and Anet didn't want Condi's to burst, that logically, they did not intend for Scourge to be a condi bomber. ... they didn't intend for ANY class to be a condi bomber.

    I to do not think people should post out of salty rage, but it is true that Anet did not want what Scourge was really good at doing; spiking people with condis.

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    @Obtena.7952
    I believe the challenge is more to those who imply scourge is supposed to be solely a support class and nothing more. i.e. not do damage.

    Fair enough .. I do not believe that being a 'something' class means it shouldn't do damage either, otherwise the whole concept of the game wouldn't exist.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Ivantreil.3092Ivantreil.3092 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2017

    Man it's just like reaper all over again, mentioned to be a power dps elite, and ended up as a condi dps/corrupt boon elite.

    And now the same thing is happening again, is it the class maybe way too dependant to boon corruption? that no matter what future specs they bring, it will excel at condi corrupt boon just like the previous elites?, is that the future of necros?

    Way too much access to it or way too easy application of it?

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2017

    I hope not.

    Cause corruption and epi is the only thing we have. Ok a little bit of barrier.

    But we suck at everything else.

    We can only donate might support and that pretty poorly.

    We cannot heal properly getting a 1400 heal tick every second is awesome, but ele and guard can do the same thing and still have more healing capabilities. And we cant even maintain it the whole time

    We have
    no real defense
    No real sustain
    No mobility
    And we cant even spike as hard as other classes (for example mirage oneshotting fulltank necros)

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    IMO, scourge is meant to be a support condi elite. Many players feel like it has to be the best at everything - condi, power, support - but that is unreasonable.

    For doing fair dps and offering barriers to help soak boss-level damage, Scourge should be glassier and it is. Scourge has very clear weaknesses and needs more support than core or Reaper.

    Think about the changes to Scourge since the beta weekends. Barrier up-time has been increased while condi burst and overall dps has decreased. Balance has been adjusted for a bit more support and less dps. That should tell everyone what the developers intend.

    If the combination of dps and support prevent discrimination in grouping, the elite is a success. If not, more tweaks seem likely. My Necro does not need to be OP and meta in all game modes but I would like it to be accepted.

  • Kaiser.9873Kaiser.9873 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @ShiroAero.8096 said:

    @mulzi.8273 said:

    @ShiroAero.8096 said:
    Every condition class got "nerfed the same way as scourge. We don't need to attack devs as fast as they touch scourge. Scourge was broken now atleast more bareable in pvp.

    condi Mesmer would like to say hello.

    ok true that lol but still scourge needed some nerf

    Well scourge needed counterplay not "numbers" nerfs. Honnestly the scourge is still as toxic (for the game, for the necromancers themself and for other professions) as he was before since there is still no counterplay to scourge shroud skills. The way they handled condition in this patch wasn't even close to what we should call a "profession's balance patch", It was just a "condition baalance patch".

    This patch aimed at redefining conditions into the game, it didn't aim at balancing professions. Thus I find the title of the thread a bit over the top. It could have been a lot worse, the necromancer end up almost unscathed from this patch. Look at the elementalist that think it's the end of the world, look at the revenants that thought that they couldn't be worse than they were before... etc. This wasn't even close to a "necro hate" patch.

    Counterplay? Try siccing anything with 1200+ range on a Scourge. 1v1 versus a longbow Ranger is pretty much over before it started if they are at all competent. Try dodging, Running, or Walking around the shade. Scourge is still, even with Sand Swell, terribly locked in place most of a fight, and that place is <900 range most of the time. Trail of anguish with one stab application is not the answer. LF drain on Reaper is horrible so yeah that also seems like necro hate. You want to haze walls? Forget about using your primary AoE to do it; instead try to use marks, which are terribly low damage, or run wells which in scourge take away some pretty important( /s ) utilities.

    Scourge is not in a bad place, and yeah, it is definitely still meta, but to imply that Scourge is some kind of super class is not the case either.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kaiser.9873 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @ShiroAero.8096 said:

    @mulzi.8273 said:

    @ShiroAero.8096 said:
    Every condition class got "nerfed the same way as scourge. We don't need to attack devs as fast as they touch scourge. Scourge was broken now atleast more bareable in pvp.

    condi Mesmer would like to say hello.

    ok true that lol but still scourge needed some nerf

    Well scourge needed counterplay not "numbers" nerfs. Honnestly the scourge is still as toxic (for the game, for the necromancers themself and for other professions) as he was before since there is still no counterplay to scourge shroud skills. The way they handled condition in this patch wasn't even close to what we should call a "profession's balance patch", It was just a "condition baalance patch".

    This patch aimed at redefining conditions into the game, it didn't aim at balancing professions. Thus I find the title of the thread a bit over the top. It could have been a lot worse, the necromancer end up almost unscathed from this patch. Look at the elementalist that think it's the end of the world, look at the revenants that thought that they couldn't be worse than they were before... etc. This wasn't even close to a "necro hate" patch.

    Counterplay? Try siccing anything with 1200+ range on a Scourge. 1v1 versus a longbow Ranger is pretty much over before it started if they are at all competent. Try dodging, Running, or Walking around the shade. Scourge is still, even with Sand Swell, terribly locked in place most of a fight, and that place is <900 range most of the time. Trail of anguish with one stab application is not the answer. LF drain on Reaper is horrible so yeah that also seems like necro hate. You want to haze walls? Forget about using your primary AoE to do it; instead try to use marks, which are terribly low damage, or run wells which in scourge take away some pretty important( /s ) utilities.

    Scourge is not in a bad place, and yeah, it is definitely still meta, but to imply that Scourge is some kind of super class is not the case either.

    You do realize that Scourge can apply it's full damage at 900 range right? Not every class has access to a high damage 1200 range weapon.

    For example no Reaper build is capable of winning against a Scourge, since Scourge shuts reaper down to such a degree that Reapers have to leave any fight where a scourge is present.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • Kaiser.9873Kaiser.9873 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Kaiser.9873 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @ShiroAero.8096 said:

    @mulzi.8273 said:

    @ShiroAero.8096 said:
    Every condition class got "nerfed the same way as scourge. We don't need to attack devs as fast as they touch scourge. Scourge was broken now atleast more bareable in pvp.

    condi Mesmer would like to say hello.

    ok true that lol but still scourge needed some nerf

    Well scourge needed counterplay not "numbers" nerfs. Honnestly the scourge is still as toxic (for the game, for the necromancers themself and for other professions) as he was before since there is still no counterplay to scourge shroud skills. The way they handled condition in this patch wasn't even close to what we should call a "profession's balance patch", It was just a "condition baalance patch".

    This patch aimed at redefining conditions into the game, it didn't aim at balancing professions. Thus I find the title of the thread a bit over the top. It could have been a lot worse, the necromancer end up almost unscathed from this patch. Look at the elementalist that think it's the end of the world, look at the revenants that thought that they couldn't be worse than they were before... etc. This wasn't even close to a "necro hate" patch.

    Counterplay? Try siccing anything with 1200+ range on a Scourge. 1v1 versus a longbow Ranger is pretty much over before it started if they are at all competent. Try dodging, Running, or Walking around the shade. Scourge is still, even with Sand Swell, terribly locked in place most of a fight, and that place is <900 range most of the time. Trail of anguish with one stab application is not the answer. LF drain on Reaper is horrible so yeah that also seems like necro hate. You want to haze walls? Forget about using your primary AoE to do it; instead try to use marks, which are terribly low damage, or run wells which in scourge take away some pretty important( /s ) utilities.

    Scourge is not in a bad place, and yeah, it is definitely still meta, but to imply that Scourge is some kind of super class is not the case either.

    You do realize that Scourge can apply it's full damage at 900 range right? Not every class has access to a high damage 1200 range weapon.

    For example no Reaper build is capable of winning against a Scourge, since Scourge shuts reaper down to such a degree that Reapers have to leave any fight where a scourge is present.

    I do realize that. I also realize that Rangers, Elementalists, Deadeye, Warriors, DH, Mesmers, engineers, and especially hammer revs have very nice 1200 range options that eat Scourge for lunch. It doesn't have to be a high damage 1200 range weapon as Scourge are pretty easy to kite.

  • Galmac.4680Galmac.4680 Member ✭✭✭

    Even scourges can kill scourges! :p

    Praise Joko!

  • mulzi.8273mulzi.8273 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    For example no Reaper build is capable of winning against a Scourge, since Scourge shuts reaper down to such a degree that Reapers have to leave any fight where a scourge is present.

    There is a reaper build that can take out scourges, but it requires a whole different bunch of traits (and trait line) from the traditional power build. That build also handles condi mesmers easier. However it is a bit more risky against the power thief/shatter mesmer. The key is to think outside the box, and trait your power reaper so it doesn't auto-generate boons (especially might for the perma weakness against scourge corrupt) and to slot in a couple of the auto-transfer traits.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mulzi.8273 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    For example no Reaper build is capable of winning against a Scourge, since Scourge shuts reaper down to such a degree that Reapers have to leave any fight where a scourge is present.

    There is a reaper build that can take out scourges, but it requires a whole different bunch of traits (and trait line) from the traditional power build. That build also handles condi mesmers easier. However it is a bit more risky against the power thief/shatter mesmer. The key is to think outside the box, and trait your power reaper so it doesn't auto-generate boons (especially might for the perma weakness against scourge corrupt) and to slot in a couple of the auto-transfer traits.

    Boonless reaper still loses to Scourge. It ain't the boonrip that kills reaper.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • Raizel.8175Raizel.8175 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I kinda have the feeling that the HoT-specializations were bad for PvE since they introduced a rather strong Holy-Trinity-concept into GW2 (Chrono-Tank, Druid-Healer), whereas the PoF-specializations are bad for sPvP due to wrong incentives like Sniper-Builds (Deadeye, LB-Ranger/SB) and professions like Scourge being too dominant since they can literally control points if they want. Also, they punish meele-based combat too harsh, especially due to boon corruption. Kinda totally screws up the "risk and reward"-concept. At least in sPvP Scourge is pretty fun for being as broken as it is and I'm probably a bonafide noob, since I'm only playing GW2 for approx. four months now.

  • ToPNoP.2493ToPNoP.2493 Member ✭✭✭

    was a thief hate patch in nov, and again in dec.

    Yes I like comms, but sadly I'm allergic to them.

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's the nature of those instant F skills that are antithetical to skilled play.

    Eg. Most classes when fighting a Warrior:

    • see incoming Shield Bash
    • react with dodge, counterattack
    • warrior sees your counterattack, reacts with block
    • see warrior block, react with some unblockable attack (eg. Prime Light Beam on engi,Traited Staff Marks on necro)
    • warriors sees animation for unblockable attack, cancels block early and reacts with dodge

    This is skilled gameplay. It's exciting and it's fair for both parties.

    Scourge isn't like this. The aoes are instant and can't be avoided if you're playing a melee or close-mid range class. They corrupt boons (which you can't avoid having with a lot of classes, or if you're playing in a team). It locks out the vast majority of melee builds from being competitive, and it does it without any opportunity to out-play the scourge.

  • mulzi.8273mulzi.8273 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @mulzi.8273 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    For example no Reaper build is capable of winning against a Scourge, since Scourge shuts reaper down to such a degree that Reapers have to leave any fight where a scourge is present.

    There is a reaper build that can take out scourges, but it requires a whole different bunch of traits (and trait line) from the traditional power build. That build also handles condi mesmers easier. However it is a bit more risky against the power thief/shatter mesmer. The key is to think outside the box, and trait your power reaper so it doesn't auto-generate boons (especially might for the perma weakness against scourge corrupt) and to slot in a couple of the auto-transfer traits.

    Boonless reaper still loses to Scourge. It ain't the boonrip that kills reaper.

    Its the main reason. If you take the auto-might generating traits like AtP, the scrouge will corrupt that to weakness. That reaper would have permanent weakness on him, effectively killing most of his dps before condis overwhelms him.

    The build i'm referring to regates permanent weakness, but more importantly, gives the reaper 5-6 methods to transfer condis. Assuming you can pressure the scourge intelligently and quickly, you can overwhelm him with that build, assuming its not a +1 situation of course. If a FB is with him, you mind as well log out of course.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @coro.3176 said:
    It's the nature of those instant F skills that are antithetical to skilled play.

    Eg. Most classes when fighting a Warrior:

    • see incoming Shield Bash
    • react with dodge, counterattack
    • warrior sees your counterattack, reacts with block
    • see warrior block, react with some unblockable attack (eg. Prime Light Beam on engi,Traited Staff Marks on necro)
    • warriors sees animation for unblockable attack, cancels block early and reacts with dodge

    This is skilled gameplay. It's exciting and it's fair for both parties.

    Scourge isn't like this. The aoes are instant and can't be avoided if you're playing a melee or close-mid range class. They corrupt boons (which you can't avoid having with a lot of classes, or if you're playing in a team). It locks out the vast majority of melee builds from being competitive, and it does it without any opportunity to out-play the scourge.

    So mesmer having almost only insta casts are balanced?

    With so little defense the necro has its good that f skills are insta cast. Else it would be very clumsy to play. Imagine a 3/4 seconds casttime on each f skill. That would make necros more dead than they just are right now

  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭

    with all the "bugfixes" and nerfes, and bugs that became a feature (obstructed bug) scourge lost more than 50% of its dmg.

    just look at mesmer mantra of resolve. all condi cleanse at activation and than 6 condi cleanse for the 2 charges (3 per charge). with 12 sec cooldown the mesmer can every 6 seconds cleanse a minimum of 6 condis. so no condi of scourge will tick longer than 6 seconds.

    the last balance patch increased duration and reduced the stacks of condis. but every condi get cleansed after 6 seconds. so every dmg from condis above this treshold from 6 seconds is surely lost. so e.g. to reduce the stacks of condition from 3 to 1 due to dmg reduce of that skill by 66% to 33% of original dmg. most classes have enough condi cleanse to remove every 6-7 seconds the condis. the last balance patch killed condis completely. best backline Dmg Dealer is hammer rev atm. warrior bubbles are way better to boonrip than scourges. there is simply no need for scourges in wvw atm...

  • I switch between hammer rev and power reaper, and I can say that power reaper easily does close to twice the damage of a hammer rev in wvw. You cant use the same builds from launch and expect them to perform the same after patches. Condi clear has always negated condi builds since launch, and most wvw guilds/roamers run heavy condi clear. If you run a build that relies almost solely on conditions, you're not going to be effective.

    "Wait a minute, you are as great a wvw player as has ever been, owning bloodlust with impunity." - Mykhul

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    This thread is a good example as to why the class specific forums should be ignored when it comes to PvP and people should only take what is said in the actual PvP board seriously.

    Players in class specific forums are just completely delusional.

    Scourge continues to dominate in ranked and is used every game in ATs. I am in platinum and guess what every single one of my games was like? 2 scourge. Every game. Both teams.

    Every.

    Single.

    Game.

    If you can't understand that the class is still a huge problem from that then you are irredeemably dense and there is no hope for you.

    Edit: actually it wasn't 2 scourge every game. Almost forgot people in Gold III and higher like to exploit class switching to stack so I actually had a few 5 scourge / even a 6 scourge game. My bad.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Man, necros have a serious persecution complex.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Man, necros have a serious persecution complex.

    The saddest part about this whining is if they knew how to play they would realize that scourge was actually buffed last patch.

    Increasing condi duration at the expense of stacks is, from a pvp standpoint, actually a big buff. This is because the main thing you want in pvp when running conditions is a good flow of cover conditions in order to make removal less effective. Higher durations make covering easier to maintain while also reducing the effectiveness of resistance ( IE a stack of 2 torment for 10 seconds vs a stack of 4 for 5, guess which is more effective against 5 seconds of resistance? ) . So while the patch slightly reduced the burst DPS, it increased the overall utility and effectiveness of the build to ignore counter tactics.

    But of course, these kids don't realize that. They were spamming their F1-F5 and now they see slightly lower numbers and think it means they have been "nerfed".

    topkek.

  • @Odokuro.5049 said:
    Scourge was never intended to be the Cond-Bomber 9000 that it was. Originally Scourge was intended to give Necromancers the ability to bring both forms of Support and Group Utility, so that they became more welcomed in various parts of Guild Wars 2.

    And yet there not, funny how that worked out,

    The nerf bat to nerco was always going to happen, as soon as players wouldn't kill them in 5 seconds they QQd hard on the forums demanding nerfs, and anet delivered, now they are back asking for more nerfs, as the players now cant keep all there boons all the time and its not fair they cant face walk over everyone because that necro is boon stripping,

    All the people asking for more nerfs, its funny, I don't see these players in other threads with clearly OP classes, when people are asking for nerfs to them, its has to be balance for all, not just a few.

  • Zoltreez.6435Zoltreez.6435 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ok I Did It.2854 said:

    @Odokuro.5049 said:
    Scourge was never intended to be the Cond-Bomber 9000 that it was. Originally Scourge was intended to give Necromancers the ability to bring both forms of Support and Group Utility, so that they became more welcomed in various parts of Guild Wars 2.

    And yet there not, funny how that worked out,

    The nerf bat to nerco was always going to happen, as soon as players wouldn't kill them in 5 seconds they QQd hard on the forums demanding nerfs, and anet delivered, now they are back asking for more nerfs, as the players now cant keep all there boons all the time and its not fair they cant face walk over everyone because that necro is boon stripping,

    All the people asking for more nerfs, its funny, I don't see these players in other threads with clearly OP classes, when people are asking for nerfs to them, its has to be balance for all, not just a few.

    This is the life of a Necro SINCE RELEASE OF THE GAME .....

  • Same old rubbish. Watch the pvp streamers cry about it in the most pathetic way possible, watch the followers feed off it while spouting more of the same - i wish we could 1 shot them like we always have commentary. Such myopic uneducated views that spread like wildfire through knobsville. Pa thetic

  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Man, necros have a serious persecution complex.

    The saddest part about this whining is if they knew how to play they would realize that scourge was actually buffed last patch.

    Increasing condi duration at the expense of stacks is, from a pvp standpoint, actually a big buff. This is because the main thing you want in pvp when running conditions is a good flow of cover conditions in order to make removal less effective. Higher durations make covering easier to maintain while also reducing the effectiveness of resistance ( IE a stack of 2 torment for 10 seconds vs a stack of 4 for 5, guess which is more effective against 5 seconds of resistance? ) . So while the patch slightly reduced the burst DPS, it increased the overall utility and effectiveness of the build to ignore counter tactics.

    But of course, these kids don't realize that. They were spamming their F1-F5 and now they see slightly lower numbers and think it means they have been "nerfed".

    topkek.

    lol, necros get nerfed and people deform the reality to say that was a buff? OKAY THAN PPPLLLZZZ anet, TAKe BACK THE "BUFF". WE WANT the nerf that duration get decreased and stacks get increased, PLZ ANET...

  • Zoltreez.6435Zoltreez.6435 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Man, necros have a serious persecution complex.

    The saddest part about this whining is if they knew how to play they would realize that scourge was actually buffed last patch.

    Increasing condi duration at the expense of stacks is, from a pvp standpoint, actually a big buff. This is because the main thing you want in pvp when running conditions is a good flow of cover conditions in order to make removal less effective. Higher durations make covering easier to maintain while also reducing the effectiveness of resistance ( IE a stack of 2 torment for 10 seconds vs a stack of 4 for 5, guess which is more effective against 5 seconds of resistance? ) . So while the patch slightly reduced the burst DPS, it increased the overall utility and effectiveness of the build to ignore counter tactics.

    But of course, these kids don't realize that. They were spamming their F1-F5 and now they see slightly lower numbers and think it means they have been "nerfed".

    topkek.

    lol, necros get nerfed and people deform the reality to say that was a buff? OKAY THAN PPPLLLZZZ anet, TAKe BACK THE "BUFF". WE WANT the nerf that duration get decreased and stacks get increased, PLZ ANET...

    i Just want a Working Worthwhile SHROUD....... and some mobility for My necro.... no matter the spec.....

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Man, necros have a serious persecution complex.

    The saddest part about this whining is if they knew how to play they would realize that scourge was actually buffed last patch.

    Increasing condi duration at the expense of stacks is, from a pvp standpoint, actually a big buff. This is because the main thing you want in pvp when running conditions is a good flow of cover conditions in order to make removal less effective. Higher durations make covering easier to maintain while also reducing the effectiveness of resistance ( IE a stack of 2 torment for 10 seconds vs a stack of 4 for 5, guess which is more effective against 5 seconds of resistance? ) . So while the patch slightly reduced the burst DPS, it increased the overall utility and effectiveness of the build to ignore counter tactics.

    But of course, these kids don't realize that. They were spamming their F1-F5 and now they see slightly lower numbers and think it means they have been "nerfed".

    topkek.

    lol, necros get nerfed and people deform the reality to say that was a buff? OKAY THAN PPPLLLZZZ anet, TAKe BACK THE "BUFF". WE WANT the nerf that duration get decreased and stacks get increased, PLZ ANET...

    Yeah man easier access to cover conditions is totally a nerf.

    oops you're bad.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Man, necros have a serious persecution complex.

    The saddest part about this whining is if they knew how to play they would realize that scourge was actually buffed last patch.

    Increasing condi duration at the expense of stacks is, from a pvp standpoint, actually a big buff. This is because the main thing you want in pvp when running conditions is a good flow of cover conditions in order to make removal less effective. Higher durations make covering easier to maintain while also reducing the effectiveness of resistance ( IE a stack of 2 torment for 10 seconds vs a stack of 4 for 5, guess which is more effective against 5 seconds of resistance? ) . So while the patch slightly reduced the burst DPS, it increased the overall utility and effectiveness of the build to ignore counter tactics.

    But of course, these kids don't realize that. They were spamming their F1-F5 and now they see slightly lower numbers and think it means they have been "nerfed".

    topkek.

    lol, necros get nerfed and people deform the reality to say that was a buff? OKAY THAN PPPLLLZZZ anet, TAKe BACK THE "BUFF". WE WANT the nerf that duration get decreased and stacks get increased, PLZ ANET...

    Scourge needs more nerfs

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • Kaiser.9873Kaiser.9873 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Man, necros have a serious persecution complex.

    The saddest part about this whining is if they knew how to play they would realize that scourge was actually buffed last patch.

    Increasing condi duration at the expense of stacks is, from a pvp standpoint, actually a big buff. This is because the main thing you want in pvp when running conditions is a good flow of cover conditions in order to make removal less effective. Higher durations make covering easier to maintain while also reducing the effectiveness of resistance ( IE a stack of 2 torment for 10 seconds vs a stack of 4 for 5, guess which is more effective against 5 seconds of resistance? ) . So while the patch slightly reduced the burst DPS, it increased the overall utility and effectiveness of the build to ignore counter tactics.

    But of course, these kids don't realize that. They were spamming their F1-F5 and now they see slightly lower numbers and think it means they have been "nerfed".

    topkek.

    lol, necros get nerfed and people deform the reality to say that was a buff? OKAY THAN PPPLLLZZZ anet, TAKe BACK THE "BUFF". WE WANT the nerf that duration get decreased and stacks get increased, PLZ ANET...

    I'm with you on this. Revert the patch and nerf me back to how I was before the "BUFF" patch lmao. Nobody else's burst DPS got reduced like the Scourge. That extra tick or two sure helps me when I get critted by a power class for 12K.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kaiser.9873 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Man, necros have a serious persecution complex.

    The saddest part about this whining is if they knew how to play they would realize that scourge was actually buffed last patch.

    Increasing condi duration at the expense of stacks is, from a pvp standpoint, actually a big buff. This is because the main thing you want in pvp when running conditions is a good flow of cover conditions in order to make removal less effective. Higher durations make covering easier to maintain while also reducing the effectiveness of resistance ( IE a stack of 2 torment for 10 seconds vs a stack of 4 for 5, guess which is more effective against 5 seconds of resistance? ) . So while the patch slightly reduced the burst DPS, it increased the overall utility and effectiveness of the build to ignore counter tactics.

    But of course, these kids don't realize that. They were spamming their F1-F5 and now they see slightly lower numbers and think it means they have been "nerfed".

    topkek.

    lol, necros get nerfed and people deform the reality to say that was a buff? OKAY THAN PPPLLLZZZ anet, TAKe BACK THE "BUFF". WE WANT the nerf that duration get decreased and stacks get increased, PLZ ANET...

    I'm with you on this. Revert the patch and nerf me back to how I was before the "BUFF" patch lmao. Nobody else's burst DPS got reduced like the Scourge. That extra tick or two sure helps me when I get critted by a power class for 12K.

    Yep 6-10k crit from power classes on a 3.2k armor... W T F?!

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Arenanet may take some more time to let PvP settle. The half-stack, double-duration update affected all professions. It made condi cleanses more valuable but that applies double for boon corruptions and condi transfers.

    I do expect another condi balance patch. The half-double patch was too simple. Condi durations will probably be tweaked and I would not rule out adjustments to boon generation, boon ripping, and condi cleansing. The developers probably expected the energetic discussions so do not think your voices are not being heard.

  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭

    @Anchoku.8142 said:
    Arenanet may take some more time to let PvP settle. The half-stack, double-duration update affected all professions. It made condi cleanses more valuable but that applies double for boon corruptions and condi transfers.

    I do expect another condi balance patch. The half-double patch was too simple. Condi durations will probably be tweaked and I would not rule out adjustments to boon generation, boon ripping, and condi cleansing. The developers probably expected the energetic discussions so do not think your voices are not being heard.

    the discussion is just so energetic, because currently there is just 1 viable build on whole necromancer class. its condi scourge. scourge is created for condis (so it cant be settled in power space without redesign of class that never will happen).so if you destroy condis you destroy scourges and the whole necromancer class will be completely redundant...if anet would bring 1 viable power necro back to game, everyone would be happy. but anet just fix dmg. but dmg is not the problem of power necs. the problem is sustain. and anet only nerfed sustain of necs in the last 5 years with every balance patch, so power nec will never came back if anet doesnt change its "ideology" of balancing necros. hopeless...

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Boon corrupt is greatly imbalanced design, since majority of classes functionality is integrated with boons. Not to mention, with boon corrupt you can get hit easy with 20-25 condis under 10 secs. There isn't enough condi removal for any class to fight this. It is impossible for any melee now to fight on point, especially boon reliant classes.

    Scourge will get nerfed (even if not enough of hit this patch within the next 2-3 patches it will). The problem is Anet will be nerf completely out the meta. Like reaper, condi warrior, condi rev, and so on. It seems we can never get things balanced. Either largely out performing or nerfed to oblivion.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2018

    @otto.5684 said:
    Boon corrupt is greatly imbalanced design, since majority of classes functionality is integrated with boons. Not to mention, with boon corrupt you can get hit easy with 20-25 condis under 10 secs. There isn't enough condi removal for any class to fight this. It is impossible for any melee now to fight on point, especially boon reliant classes.

    Scourge will get nerfed (even if not enough of hit this patch within the next 2-3 patches it will). The problem is Anet will be nerf completely out the meta. Like reaper, condi warrior, condi rev, and so on. It seems we can never get things balanced. Either largely out performing or nerfed to oblivion.

    I think you will see boon corrupt is only greatly inbalanced because it stacks with the ridiculous numbers of conditions people can apply. With Anet recognizing that the condi burst needs to go and that condition damage should be more of a long-term strategy, condi removal will be relatively easier.

    That being said, the same build that has ideal boon corruption on Necro is also an ideal Condition application build ... so I would bet with you ... that's an unsustainable situation that Anet should remedy.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • @Zero.3871 said:

    >

    the discussion is just so energetic, because currently there is just 1 viable build on whole necromancer class. its condi scourge.

    And power reaper. https://ibb.co/hq1Xb6

    "Wait a minute, you are as great a wvw player as has ever been, owning bloodlust with impunity." - Mykhul

  • panchovilla.5986panchovilla.5986 Member ✭✭
    edited January 31, 2018

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    Boon corrupt is greatly imbalanced design, since majority of classes functionality is integrated with boons. Not to mention, with boon corrupt you can get hit easy with 20-25 condis under 10 secs. There isn't enough condi removal for any class to fight this. It is impossible for any melee now to fight on point, especially boon reliant classes.

    Scourge will get nerfed (even if not enough of hit this patch within the next 2-3 patches it will). The problem is Anet will be nerf completely out the meta. Like reaper, condi warrior, condi rev, and so on. It seems we can never get things balanced. Either largely out performing or nerfed to oblivion.

    I think you will see boon corrupt is only greatly inbalanced because it stacks with the ridiculous numbers of conditions people can apply. With Anet recognizing that the condi burst needs to go and that condition damage should be more of a long-term strategy, condi removal will be relatively easier.

    That being said, the same build that has ideal boon corruption on Necro is also an ideal Condition application build ... so I would bet with you ... that's an unsustainable situation that Anet should remedy.

    So you're saying that the primary benefit of a long term strategy is that it would be easier to defeat?
    I've played DOT (condition) based classes since '07, primarily Corruption Warlock in that other game.
    Yes, I agree DOT's should be a longer term strategy.
    They are typically medium to high damage, and applied in multiples.
    As the person I quoted points out, the large numbers of conditions that stack are the real problem.
    These sorts of effects need to be dedicated spells with specific effects.
    An example...

    Curse of XXXXX
    30 yd range
    Instant
    Curses the target with XXXXX, causing XXXXX damage over 24 sec.
    This damage is dealt slowly at first, and builds up as the Curse reaches its full duration.

    The idea being, 3 - 5 such spells are applied with varying amounts of damage and various characteristics which address whatever applicable mechanics are potentially involved.
    They may or may not be cleansable at all or they may need something specific to cleanse them.
    But they are neither trivial nor impossible to get rid of or reapply.
    They usually have some mechanic built into them forcing the caster to prioritize their usage, including cool downs..
    The damage ramp is not a typical feature, it is on a high priority, high cool down spell.

    Because conditions are used by every class in the game and addressing the mechanics of one class through a game-wide mechanic is a ridiculous idea.
    Often they have other effects, mainly some form of leeching.
    But if they are X-classes primary form of damage, their primary appeal can't be ease of removal.
    I'm amazed and not at all surprised to see statements like this being made.
    People calling for nerfs are almost never thinking of the welfare of the game, they want nerfs for their personal convenience.
    As a fairly new member of this game's community I have settled on my Necro as my main.
    My warlock went through many buffs and nerfs in the other game, but I'm a loyalist.
    I'm sure same thing will happen to my Necro.
    The main thing is, forum whiners can be a good indicator that something needs a look.
    They are not however, unbiased, defensible, data.
    Game balance decisions need to be made carefully, to prevent the need for a reaction to making another mess.

    EDIT:
    As I said, I am new enough to this game that I would not presume to comment too much on any specific mechanics in it yet.
    That said...
    The most highly protested mechanic seems to be the Scourge's F skills.
    These are locked to a ground target, it's like the red stuff people say not to stand in...
    I could be mistaken but some of this sounds like an L2P issue.
    I have a Ranger, specifically built to hunt Scourges, I can drop 'em without getting in range of their stuff.
    I have a Deadeye.
    There's always a way.

    EDIT:
    This however, I agree with.
    I think you will see boon corrupt is only greatly in(m)*balanced because it stacks with the ridiculous numbers of conditions people can apply.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.