Ugh... overpriced skins - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Ugh... overpriced skins

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  • IndigoSundown.5419IndigoSundown.5419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    Cost: Without ANet taking the time to explain their thinking, the cost difference seems arbitrary, capricious, and abrupt.

    I don't know the development costs for outfits versus mountfits, but they don't seem all that different to me. If anything, I'd think designing single outifts for 5 races is trickier than rendering 5 similar mountfits for 5 different mounts. Plus, given that the two seasonal sets have a retail cost (at most) 2000 gems for five, it seems like even ANet thinks the resources required to produce them are comparable. Thus, I'd think it was in ANet's interest to explain to us the difference.

    Possibilities:

    • ANet did something with mount outfits that made them different and much more expensive to create than outfits. Unlikely.
    • ANet is testing the market to see what the market will bear. Likely.
    • ANet will explain the difference to the players. When pigs fly.

    Implementation: Which brings us to how they rolled it out. Let's assume Mike O'Brien means what he said: that Mountfits really are costly to develop Let's also presume that he's right that, to sustain the game in the manner to which we are accustomed, ANet needs to find a smaller number of high-price-point items. According to him, that is more attractive to those willing and able to spend more RL cash on the game. (That sounds plausible, similar to a boat company making more money from selling a tiny number of yachts compared to selling lots of more economical vessels.)

    If all that is the case, why didn't they first rollout the fancy skins, to set our expectations about high prices? Imagine if the Warmount and Raptor of Paradise were released first at 2k each. Then the Halloween bundle of 5 skins at 1.6k looks like a crazy bargain... and the mount licenses would have been amazing at "only" 400 gems each. Instead, they did the opposite: show us the bundle first and get us used to the idea that Mountfits would be priced similarly to (and perhaps less than) Outfits.

    That feels more manipulative than the way they did it. Not what I would have wanted.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @costepj.5120 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    Game is B2P.


    Is the skin overpriced? Yes.

    Will people leave because of this? No.

    Will it ever change? No.

    Gaming industry is one of the most disrespectful braches towards customers. Why? Because they can. Game dev companies scam theri customers every day with shady practices like lootboxes but people pay for this. Who is to blame? Customers. Stop paying, that's your only option.

    If mount gate teaches us anything, bad press is irrelevant for the game. People are still playing and what's more important, people are still buying these skins. Nothing will ever change.

    I completely disagree. I've been playing GW1/GW2 for nearly a decade. During that time I've spent about £150 for both games and all expansions, which have provided me with many thousands of hours of entertainment and enjoyment. That's not much more than £1 per month. There is no other branch of the entertainment industry that provides so much for so little. By contrast, I spend nearly £100 each month with my cable company.

    I think the real issue is more around the choice of buying a mini metro or a Ferrari... but on closer inspection you see the Ferrari is just another min metro with a different paint job and no bells and whistles. That is what turns me away from buying skins for these silly prices.
    We were told these would be the real deal Ferrari skins but a wooden brick painted fancy is still a wooden brick.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • costepj.5120costepj.5120 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    whatever you or me think about this is irrelevant.

    No it is not irrelevant. If you think Anet are just a bunch of scammers then you should take action. At the very least delete your account so you don't get scammed further. Words are cheap; actions count.

    So long and thanks for all the Skritt

  • Despond.2174Despond.2174 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    The issue is that it takes about a year (for me at least) to get 500 gold is what I'm getting at.

    500g= 250 days of just doing your daily. Unless you only log in for those 5mins/day to do your daily on semi-regular basis, then I’d believe you when you said it takes a year for you to make 500g.

    Which is most of my game income actually. The daily is where I get most of my money outside the few times I do/can do Fractals.
    A lot of that money then goes into trying to make materials I need to craft ascended (which I still don't have a single ascended armour yet).

    I have 0 clue how to make gold in this game outside of the 2 from the daily and then the certain times when I remember to do Tequila, which I just remembered I didn't get to do today.

    Press Y to access LFG. Go to Core Tyira > Squads And usually there is a SW riba farm 3/4 of the time. Do that, follow the commander after the meta and loot all the chests. Open and salvage the chests on a 45-50 character, sell the mats. That's 15g/hr easily.

    Search LFG once more for leather farms, meta farms. I was in a 20g/hr leather farm the other day, was a 20 man group and a good com.

    Any method is fine, just use 15g/hr as a rough mark to see if it's worthwhile - though you may want to mix it up to not get bored. Sometimes I will farm something I know is not the best g/hr but it's something different.

    Make sure you try do at least 1 Auric Basin and 1 Tequatl per day. You may luck out on Teq and get a free box that's worth about 60-80g in mats. You could chain TD > AB as well in HoT metas and select the amalagamanted rune to sell for 1.7g+ on top of all the other loot.

    Or you could do something as simple as run across Timberlake or any tier 3-4 mat zone on a mount and mine/log. Usually it's about 1g per 5min. Either way you'll have to do something repetitive. You can also play the TP market, but you might want some bank before you do that.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @usnedward.9023 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I don't see the problem. In other games, they really are just skins (that run faster), and 25 for a skin, well, that's a matter of personal choice.

    Just to put this in perspective.. a Scythe Skin (staff) sells for 2898 gold.. that's 10,986 Gems.. or put another way.. $137 cash.

    $137 for a weapon skin.. and you all are fussing about $25 for a Mount?

    Scythe Skin you can get in the game without gems so that is a very idiotic comparison.

    Really.. How?

    Same way I got my Ghastly Grinning Shield Skin that sells for over 2300g... BLC Wardrobe unlock. Weekly key farm. Didn't cost me a dime or gold :open_mouth:

    Key farm.. like the keys I can buy in the Gem Store?

    Sounds to me like its still a gem store item..

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Sojourner.4621 said:
    a) There are "just skins" in this game that easily beat the $25 mark for gem to gold conversion, some of them came exclusively from the gem store. 2000 gems with in game gold is 528g... no one would even blink if they saw that cost for one of these skins on the TP... in fact it would be almost expected. I honestly don't see the big deal... want the skin badly enough, farm it up. It's not as hard as you think to make that kind of gold, I guarantee it.

    I think this is the real problem with this discussion. 2000 gems is ~500 gold, for veteran players that's easy to get, or they already have it. If the price was much lower then it would've been even easier to get the skins by using gold. Low gem price = players buy it with gold meaning Anet doesn't make money. I believe that's why MO said individual items do not result in much revenue, I find it unthinkable that players do not buy them at all, but rather they buy them with gold due to their lower gem price.

    That's one part though, because although in terms of gold it's "cheap" or something you can farm, 2000 (or $25) is not a sum worth paying in real world money. So we have a real problem here, in terms of gold it's cheap/farmable, in terms of cash it's way too expensive.

    My proposal? Add gem discounts. The more gems you buy at once, the higher the discount. Of course, this would only apply to real world cash and have zero effect if you buy the gems with gold, no discount with gold. That way players have an incentive to buy "expensive" items artificially lowering the cash price, while keeping the gold price the same. In effect, they can keep the same overpriced (when bought with cash) items.

    They could just raise the cost of gems for gold. IE: as opposed to 500 gold being 2000 gems.. 500 gold buys you 800 gems, and it would have the same effect.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sojourner.4621 said:

    @Einlanzer.1627 said:
    The problem with charging $25 for a mount skin is:

    a.) it's just a skin
    b.) all the new skins so far are through the gem shop
    c.) we have five types of mounts that often need to be swapped between.

    O'Brien defended this as industry standard, but it actually isn't - that was a disingenuous comment. In other games, $25 skins are only released occasionally as premium skins to supplement what can be found in the game, and they are usually entirely new creatures with special effects that can be used exclusively if desired by the player.

    a) There are "just skins" in this game that easily beat the $25 mark for gem to gold conversion, some of them came exclusively from the gem store. 2000 gems with in game gold is 528g... no one would even blink if they saw that cost for one of these skins on the TP... in fact it would be almost expected. I honestly don't see the big deal... want the skin badly enough, farm it up. It's not as hard as you think to make that kind of gold, I guarantee it.

    Which one skin exclusive from the GEMSTORE costs more than 2000 gems?
    I know what you mean... There's a lot of skins that got their prices inflated to be over 500 gold. But that's just because of a different aggressive marketing tactic employed by Arena Net.
    Under the guise of avoiding UI clutter, they keep items available only on limited time windows to increase impulse buys (buy now or you may never have the chance), what this does for unbound skins is that it makes them more scarce, which inflates their price.
    By that same mechanic, there's a couple green items for 5000 gold. Are they worth it? No. But it's their price, their value because you can't get those any more.

    b) it took six months for a single glider skin to be obtainable in game (Ad Infinitum)... there even now are exactly three, and they are all just a bonus feature of Legendary Back Items, tacked on as an afterthought. There was NO way they were ever going to release in game attainable mount skins on an earlier timetable than this, and even if they do, they likely will require about as much time and in game gold expense as these three glider skins do.

    Except, no... It took a bit over 2 months for the Ascension to be added to the game.
    And Glider skins at most cost 800 Gems, not 2000. There's no RNG glider box. Also there's bundles with gliders and back items, there's bundles with outfits and gliders and other stuff, all of that at equal or less than a single mount skin.

    c) Okay, sure...

    Also it's not really disingenuous. For account wide mount skin unlocks, actually yeah this is close to the industry standard (compare to ESO where the extra exclusive skins are $40 and the normal ones are 20-25, if they are ever even obtainable outside a loot box.) Games that charge less for mount skins tend to only give that skin on a single character as someone stated above

    Wouldn't say that ESO is the industry standard, BUT ok, lets begin:
    1) They have SEVERAL mounts purchasable ingame. (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Mount_(Online))
    2) The cheapest gemstore non RNG mount costs ~10€ (so ~800 gems) the most expensive is actually cheaper than here, because in there the more "crowns" you buy the cheaper the get, but even so if one would be dumb and buy in increments of the lowest bundle it would cost ~27€, so pretty much the same as here.
    (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Crowns)
    3) They're all account bound. (https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2zkt3j/crown_store_mounts_account_wide/)

    Now lets look at what could be considered the industry standard, since it's definetly the most popular MMORPG, WoW:
    1) Has a ton of mounts available in game through simple purchases, drops, crafting, achievements, etc. These are in general Bound on Pickup. (http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Mount)
    2) Has a fraction of the number of ingame mounts available for 25€ (ACCOUNT WIDE) (https://eu.shop.battle.net/en-gb/product/world-of-warcraft-mount-armored-bloodwing)

    FFXIV:
    1) Same as WoW, a ton of in-game mounts, a fraction are store bought.
    2) Prices vary from 12 to 30$
    3) Aren't account bound because the game is made so that you can have all classes on a single character, and so it's not considered necessary to have more than one character.
    (https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Mounts)

    If GW2 would follow the same practices as those other games, you'd have a ton of in-game choices to pick before you had to resort to gemstore. As it stands even the dye channels on ingame mounts are restricted to the bare minimum possible.

    Do I want to pay that for a mount skin? Not really... so I won't... unless the skin is 100% perfect. But I also won't be upset at ANet for being "disingenuous" or for not putting the skins as attainable in game, especially after they have demonstrated in the past that they really just don't do that, at all, ever.

    Well, Arena Net pushed it A LOT with mounts. They blow away their PREVIOUSLY DEMONSTRATED STANDARDS. And yes, some statements from MO are a bit disingenuous.
    I would actually counter that they have demonstrated in the past that they do, frequently, add skins attainable ingame.
    Discounting armor and weapons there's several outfits that are/were available ingame. The Hexed Outfit is regularly obtainable during Halloween ingame. The Royal Guard Outfit was given away to players. The old town clothes are now outfits, all of them were and still are (to a point) obtainable ingame.
    There's 3 Gliders obtainable ingame.
    A ton of minis are obtainable ingame.
    There's special gathering tools (not infinite tough) obtainable ingame.
    Boosts, Styling kits, bank access, etc are also all available through in-game rewards.
    Only exception is mounts. And since i don't see them adding a legendary... Mount? I doubt you'll ever get ingame mounts the same way we got gliders. Which just makes the poorly managed gemstore mounts all the worse.
    Because if there were in-game alternatives, that would make it different. They could say: "sure this one costs 30€, BUT you can get all those other ones in-game." Now they're saying: "whoo EA did it, we can do it too!!"

  • I already stated my opinions in the previous threads about this topic. I know anet will ignore it once again if I bothered to repeat myself.

    I also know that after that fiasco, anet "suddenly" had several quality of life updates that players have asked for, for years. Coincidence?

    And I'll make an amendment to my "never" buying a skin for 2500 gems. If they released a moa mount that was utterly dyeable (they could use the raptor as a base) I'd give up and buy that one. However, they probably can't due to Square/Enix.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @usnedward.9023 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I don't see the problem. In other games, they really are just skins (that run faster), and 25 for a skin, well, that's a matter of personal choice.

    Just to put this in perspective.. a Scythe Skin (staff) sells for 2898 gold.. that's 10,986 Gems.. or put another way.. $137 cash.

    $137 for a weapon skin.. and you all are fussing about $25 for a Mount?

    Scythe Skin you can get in the game without gems so that is a very idiotic comparison.

    Really.. How?

    Same way I got my Ghastly Grinning Shield Skin that sells for over 2300g... BLC Wardrobe unlock. Weekly key farm. Didn't cost me a dime or gold :open_mouth:

    Key farm.. like the keys I can buy in the Gem Store?

    Sounds to me like its still a gem store item..

    Keys can be obtained weekly by doing their personal story and map completion.

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    The problem isn't that they are $25. The problem is that they will stay like that forever. Maybe a measly 20% discount. Then get removed to make room for other stuff.

    That is BAD. Really, really. BAD.

    Whatever price they start with, and whatever discounts they may get, the price needs to go down over time. So those who would never pay the full price will eventually buy it.

    This is how you get the most spent by the most people: start high, eventually go down. And as the price goes down, the likelyhood of more people getting it goes up. By the time no one else or very few more people would buy it, you lower the price, and what you get is way more people buying it for the lower price, and you earn more than what you'd earn from the few people less that would pay the full price.

    And the items must be made purchasable from the hero panel, so when they have to be removed from the trading post to make room for other stuff, people can still buy it. Because the last thing you need when someone wants to buy something is not having it available at all. What if the whim fades by the time it retuns? No. People has to be able to just click the icon in the hero panel, pay the price, and get it. Even if it got removed from the trading post.

    Then everyone who wants something can get it. First those who can afford the full price, and over time as the price goes down and new things get added, those with less purchasing power can get it too.

    And we get cash from everyone, and everyone can enjoy the stuff. All wins.

  • Zedek.8932Zedek.8932 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    Whatever price they start with, and whatever discounts they may get, the price needs to go down over time. So those who would never pay the full price will eventually buy it. All wins.

    No. We have "this kind of customer" as well. They are still buying "Happy New Year" items TODAY because we discounted them for 70%.
    But we are a business and not the "hand out free stuff because people wait after certain day"-company.

    Also, what's with new players? Are they supposed to get discounted items just because they are several years late?

    Sorry, but since I hate this kind of "customers", I already might skip several levels of empathy and sympathy, but:
    It's terrible that people nag so much about such stuff. I never will drive a Lamborghini, so what?
    You either want an item and buy it, or you are declining it and have to live with that.
    But always come up to the information desk at the store and nag, nag nag, this won't get you the item.
    It's a store a after all, not the social welfare office. Both applies to real life point of sale and ingame transactions.

    Excelsior.

    P.S.

    @ReaverKane.7598

    WoW and FF14 have a monthly subscription. So comparing "obtainable ingame mounts" with GW2's mount system is wrong. Also, after the current rip-off of the Carbuncle mount from the Gemstore, Squeenix is doing a terrible thing.

    Excelsior, my name is Zedexx; Asuran Deadeye and assassin.
    The Hunter / 2x Darksteel Pistols / 2x Whisper's Secret Daggers and my Springer. That's all I need and trust.
    "We [Asura] are the concentrated magnificence!"

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @usnedward.9023 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I don't see the problem. In other games, they really are just skins (that run faster), and 25 for a skin, well, that's a matter of personal choice.

    Just to put this in perspective.. a Scythe Skin (staff) sells for 2898 gold.. that's 10,986 Gems.. or put another way.. $137 cash.

    $137 for a weapon skin.. and you all are fussing about $25 for a Mount?

    Scythe Skin you can get in the game without gems so that is a very idiotic comparison.

    Really.. How?

    Same way I got my Ghastly Grinning Shield Skin that sells for over 2300g... BLC Wardrobe unlock. Weekly key farm. Didn't cost me a dime or gold :open_mouth:

    Key farm.. like the keys I can buy in the Gem Store?

    Sounds to me like its still a gem store item..

    Keys can be obtained weekly by doing their personal story and map completion.

    Gold can be obtained daily.. you can just buy the gems with that. Both items come from the gem store..

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    @Zedek.8932 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    Whatever price they start with, and whatever discounts they may get, the price needs to go down over time. So those who would never pay the full price will eventually buy it. All wins.

    No. We have "this kind of customer" as well. They are still buying "Happy New Year" items TODAY because we discounted them for 70%.
    But we are a business and not the "hand out free stuff because people wait after certain day"-company.

    Also, what's with new players? Are they supposed to get discounted items just because they are several years late?

    Sorry, but since I hate this kind of "customers", I already might skip several levels of empathy and sympathy, but:
    It's terrible that people nag so much about such stuff. I never will drive a Lamborghini, so what?
    You either want an item and buy it, or you are declining it and have to live with that.
    But always come up to the information desk at the store and nag, nag nag, this won't get you the item.
    It's a store a after all, not the social welfare office. Both applies to real life point of sale and ingame transactions.

    They arrived late. And THAT is the tradeoff. Yes, they may be spending less if they arrive late. But there's way more stuff to buy, and they have way less time to play, because they lost all the time they could have spent playing if they joined earlier.

    Because the extra price is not just for the item, but for getting it NOW. Just look at Steam. First a game is released for $50, DLCS for10. Those who can buy for that price buy it right on release. But eventually games go down to prices like $10-5 and DLCs for $1. And they earn way more by doing that because at some points there's no more people who can afford to pay $50, because not everyone in the world earn the same and live in the same place.
    There's no 'veterancy checks' that will lower the price for old steam accounts and keep it high for new accounts. The price is lowered for all. But Steam still earns more by lowering the price than by keeping it high.
    This way they earn the most from the most people, but also let the most people play the games without leaving anyone out.

    That is what works. It isn't just the most fair considering the different levels of wealth in the world and how not everyone earns the same even in the same country, it's also what gets the most paid by the most people, thus getting more money for the company.

  • Adenin.5973Adenin.5973 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    @MarshallLaw.9260 said:

    @Adenin.5973 said:
    because the gemshop is where you get the cool stuff.

    This is just personal opinion. I understand that many others agree with this but it's not for everyone.

    @Adenin.5973 said:
    What a terrible waste. In other games (like Warframe) you get cashshop items but there's still a grind option that also has some story and lore for the new item. Anet needs to completely separate both ways of acquiring an item ingame and through the shop. Right now, we have only the shop, regardless where the money comes from.

    The "grind" option is to get gold and convert to gems via exchange, the access is there for any player who has a non-F2P account. No need to separate as it might encourage lower gem spend and reduce game income necessary for development.

    I understand your idea about all things having "lore", but then how are you going to write a story about getting your baseball cap or sunglasses or any other clown outfit for that matter? Too many random fashion items at this point to create lore about them all.

    Okay, not every single item should have some quest (doesn't even have to be voice acted or with custom enemies or whatever). But things like the legendary mounts, balthasars helmet or grenths outfit.
    Imagine the possibilities for quests. It could even be some sort of collection you need to complete, whether you buy it with real game money or not. Travel back to orr, read some inscriptions in some temples, fight some undead priests or whatever, fight some reused arah dungeon boss. Doesn't have to be with cutscenes, just use what is already in the game.

    If you buy it with real money you could buy all needed items for the "grenths outfit collection" instantly but you would still need to do the story (which is like a 15 min quest if you have all needed items) and if you want to do it without cash, you have to grind for certain collection items. The grind would be balanced around the game time needed to grind the gold to buy the collection items in the shop directly.

    This scenario would be my dream. A quest, cheap to produce content wise, that adds a bit of lore and ties the "fancy gemstore kitten" deeply to the game world. Anet would still make the same amount of money, since it's still the same amount of grind to get stuff without paying real cash and all the players, the one that use their credit card and the ones that don't have new content with meaningful rewards.

    The biggest problem that gets apparent to me if you think about the scenario above is: Gemshop items are only for a very short period available. Which means the lore and quests for the new items would also only be available for a short time during one year. That's the most annoying thing probably. If they would be always there, I could start grinding for specific things. I would play with a specific goal in mind, it would feel rewarding to get it.
    But currently this is not possible. You have to grind in advance, just in case something pops up in the gemstore you want. You play without a real reward in mind. That's imo a very frustrating thing.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @usnedward.9023 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I don't see the problem. In other games, they really are just skins (that run faster), and 25 for a skin, well, that's a matter of personal choice.

    Just to put this in perspective.. a Scythe Skin (staff) sells for 2898 gold.. that's 10,986 Gems.. or put another way.. $137 cash.

    $137 for a weapon skin.. and you all are fussing about $25 for a Mount?

    Scythe Skin you can get in the game without gems so that is a very idiotic comparison.

    Really.. How?

    Same way I got my Ghastly Grinning Shield Skin that sells for over 2300g... BLC Wardrobe unlock. Weekly key farm. Didn't cost me a dime or gold :open_mouth:

    Key farm.. like the keys I can buy in the Gem Store?

    Sounds to me like its still a gem store item..

    Keys can be obtained weekly by doing their personal story and map completion.

    Gold can be obtained daily.. you can just buy the gems with that. Both items come from the gem store..

    It still stands that you can get keys without going to the gem store.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @usnedward.9023 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I don't see the problem. In other games, they really are just skins (that run faster), and 25 for a skin, well, that's a matter of personal choice.

    Just to put this in perspective.. a Scythe Skin (staff) sells for 2898 gold.. that's 10,986 Gems.. or put another way.. $137 cash.

    $137 for a weapon skin.. and you all are fussing about $25 for a Mount?

    Scythe Skin you can get in the game without gems so that is a very idiotic comparison.

    Really.. How?

    Same way I got my Ghastly Grinning Shield Skin that sells for over 2300g... BLC Wardrobe unlock. Weekly key farm. Didn't cost me a dime or gold :open_mouth:

    Key farm.. like the keys I can buy in the Gem Store?

    Sounds to me like its still a gem store item..

    Keys can be obtained weekly by doing their personal story and map completion.

    Gold can be obtained daily.. you can just buy the gems with that. Both items come from the gem store..

    It still stands that you can get keys without going to the gem store.

    irrelevant to the discussion as you can get gems without paying money.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Implementation: Which brings us to how they rolled it out. Let's assume Mike O'Brien means what he said: that Mountfits really are costly to develop Let's also presume that he's right that, to sustain the game in the manner to which we are accustomed, ANet needs to find a smaller number of high-price-point items. According to him, that is more attractive to those willing and able to spend more RL cash on the game. (That sounds plausible, similar to a boat company making more money from selling a tiny number of yachts compared to selling lots of more economical vessels.)

    If all that is the case, why didn't they first rollout the fancy skins, to set our expectations about high prices? Imagine if the Warmount and Raptor of Paradise were released first at 2k each. Then the Halloween bundle of 5 skins at 1.6k looks like a crazy bargain... and the mount licenses would have been amazing at "only" 400 gems each. Instead, they did the opposite: show us the bundle first and get us used to the idea that Mountfits would be priced similarly to (and perhaps less than) Outfits.


    That feels more manipulative than the way they did it. Not what I would have wanted.

    Everything about marketing and pricing is manipulative. My point is that ANet's implementation was ineffective in Mike O'Brien's stated goal: to help support the game (and allow ANet to continue to run in the manner to which we have become accustomed).

    I don't expect them to have priced Mountfits differently (even though I would have preferred them to be cheaper). I'm assuming that's not an option, that they really do have to sell more high-priced items rather than lots & lots of lower-priced ones. Given that economic reality, wouldn't you prefer that ANet handle the introduction of a new pricing system in a way that helps us get used to it, rather than what they did, which caused a lot of people to be upset enough to threaten to leave the game?

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @usnedward.9023 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I don't see the problem. In other games, they really are just skins (that run faster), and 25 for a skin, well, that's a matter of personal choice.

    Just to put this in perspective.. a Scythe Skin (staff) sells for 2898 gold.. that's 10,986 Gems.. or put another way.. $137 cash.

    $137 for a weapon skin.. and you all are fussing about $25 for a Mount?

    Scythe Skin you can get in the game without gems so that is a very idiotic comparison.

    Really.. How?

    Same way I got my Ghastly Grinning Shield Skin that sells for over 2300g... BLC Wardrobe unlock. Weekly key farm. Didn't cost me a dime or gold :open_mouth:

    Key farm.. like the keys I can buy in the Gem Store?

    Sounds to me like its still a gem store item..

    Keys can be obtained weekly by doing their personal story and map completion.

    Gold can be obtained daily.. you can just buy the gems with that. Both items come from the gem store..

    It still stands that you can get keys without going to the gem store.

    irrelevant to the discussion as you can get gems without paying money.

    Relevant to the side discussion you and the other user are in.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @usnedward.9023 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I don't see the problem. In other games, they really are just skins (that run faster), and 25 for a skin, well, that's a matter of personal choice.

    Just to put this in perspective.. a Scythe Skin (staff) sells for 2898 gold.. that's 10,986 Gems.. or put another way.. $137 cash.

    $137 for a weapon skin.. and you all are fussing about $25 for a Mount?

    Scythe Skin you can get in the game without gems so that is a very idiotic comparison.

    Really.. How?

    Same way I got my Ghastly Grinning Shield Skin that sells for over 2300g... BLC Wardrobe unlock. Weekly key farm. Didn't cost me a dime or gold :open_mouth:

    Key farm.. like the keys I can buy in the Gem Store?

    Sounds to me like its still a gem store item..

    Keys can be obtained weekly by doing their personal story and map completion.

    Gold can be obtained daily.. you can just buy the gems with that. Both items come from the gem store..

    It still stands that you can get keys without going to the gem store.

    irrelevant to the discussion as you can get gems without paying money.

    Relevant to the side discussion you and the other user are in.

    No, the whole point is that people will pay a lot for a skin.

    What in game item they farm, be gold or keys, to find alternate paths then cash to getting the skin, is irrelevant. Think of this, how many keys would it really take to luck out on that Skin? maybe 1.. maybe 1000.. since it's random.. no one knows for sure what the chance is.. but it's rare enough that cost 2898 gold (137 dollars) on the TP to buy it outright.

    and no one has a problem with this.. but they lose their minds over 550 gold for a mount skin..

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am boycotting 1600-2000 gems purchases for a single skin

  • Goettel.4389Goettel.4389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Don't want it? Don't buy it /thread

  • Haleydawn.3764Haleydawn.3764 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Goettel.4389 said:
    Don't want it? Don't buy it /thread

    I like your style.

    Better get a wriggle on.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    This is how you get the most spent by the most people: start high, eventually go down. And as the price goes down, the likelyhood of more people getting it goes up. By the time no one else or very few more people would buy it, you lower the price, and what you get is way more people buying it for the lower price, and you earn more than what you'd earn from the few people less that would pay the full price.

    I'm not sold on this example. If the price will eventually go down, and everyone knows that it will, then no one will purchase at the "premium" price -- rather, they will wait for the price reduction which they know will occur. Sure, there is the likelihood of more people purchasing as the price goes down; however, there would probably not be anyone purchasing at the higher price. I know that I wouldn't.

    /me shrugs

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    This is how you get the most spent by the most people: start high, eventually go down. And as the price goes down, the likelyhood of more people getting it goes up. By the time no one else or very few more people would buy it, you lower the price, and what you get is way more people buying it for the lower price, and you earn more than what you'd earn from the few people less that would pay the full price.

    I'm not sold on this example. If the price will eventually go down, and everyone knows that it will, then no one will purchase at the "premium" price -- rather, they will wait for the price reduction which they know will occur. Sure, there is the likelihood of more people purchasing as the price goes down; however, there would probably not be anyone purchasing at the higher price. I know that I wouldn't.

    /me shrugs

    Tons of electronics start off selling at a premium and then gradually go down. I don’t see any reason that couldn’t occur within an online game’s store.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018

    @costepj.5120 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    whatever you or me think about this is irrelevant.

    No it is not irrelevant. If you think Anet are just a bunch of scammers then you should take action. At the very least delete your account so you don't get scammed further. Words are cheap; actions count.

    As I mentioned already I'm not buying gems since HoT. However, it's irrelevant. The minority of rich players fund game dev industry every day in every game. Player opinions are irrelevant and because of differences between our financial statuses and decisions rich, paying minority is more relevant than poor minority.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    I'm not sold on this example. If the price will eventually go down, and everyone knows that it will, then no one will purchase at the "premium" price -- rather, they will wait for the price reduction which they know will occur. Sure, there is the likelihood of more people purchasing as the price goes down; however, there would probably not be anyone purchasing at the higher price. I know that I wouldn't.

    Yet it works surprisingly well in the real world.

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    I don't expect them to have priced Mountfits differently (even though I would have preferred them to be cheaper). I'm assuming that's not an option, that they really do have to sell more high-priced items rather than lots & lots of lower-priced ones. Given that economic reality, wouldn't you prefer that ANet handle the introduction of a new pricing system in a way that helps us get used to it, rather than what they did, which caused a lot of people to be upset enough to threaten to leave the game?

    No. I definitely wouldn't want people to ever get used to this kind of exploitative pricing strategy.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Zoltreez.6435Zoltreez.6435 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    @geochan.9184 said:
    25$ is nothing.

    Have you tried working in real life? you could easily rack in 100+ dollars a day with part time jobs alone. While if you're under-aged. You could try to farm in game gold, that's only about 500 gold if i remember correctly. If you could flip in trading post, it won't take more than a few days to get you that much.

    i LOL every time spoiled people bring up this argument....

    i make 40 dollars a day with a Full time job and i work my kitten off... and that's count a Well payed job in my country nowdays....

    People like me Value money you know.... im not against paying 25+ Dollars for in game stuff.... BUT FOR A MOUNT SKIN a mount that you 24/7 need to keep switching off from to another mount because terrain traverse are locked to them no freaking way worth that much

    Cut the price to half... and then i MAYBE say OKAY.....

    And the trade post flipping.... WE ARE TRYING TO PLAY A GAME HERE !!! not have a second job that also takes our free time... with this power i could pay with my IRL money that i worked for and also taken my free time away....

  • I'm not sure that lowering the Gem price of items, over time, would ensure more cash for ArenaNet. It's not too difficult to obtain, say 100 Gems, in-game through the exchange. /shrug

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    @Blue Hare.8612 said:
    Griffon mount is 250 gold and translates to about 1000 gems and that is around 12$. So I would have to pay 12$ for something that I should already have access to when I bought the expansion. Outrageous.

    No, there is no logical reason you should have access to skins just because you bought the expansion. That makes no sense at all. But I'm glad you posted that because it shows an important point ... the price of the skins doesn't actually matter. There are ALWAYS going to be unhappy, no matter what the price is. This guy is a prime example; he doesn't think they should cost anything! There is no price that anyone can think of that will make every player satisfied and allow Anet to make money; there IS no 'right' price that will prevent some fraction of players being unhappy. Therefore, it's silly to imagine Anet should 'work harder' to have 'better prices' on their GS offerings. Anyone that thinks this way doesn't understand the business, at all.

    What we should all be hoping is that there IS a price Anet can make a profit with, or at least recoup the cost to develop because if their isn't, you won't get access to ANY new skins.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    I don't expect them to have priced Mountfits differently (even though I would have preferred them to be cheaper). I'm assuming that's not an option, that they really do have to sell more high-priced items rather than lots & lots of lower-priced ones. Given that economic reality, wouldn't you prefer that ANet handle the introduction of a new pricing system in a way that helps us get used to it, rather than what they did, which caused a lot of people to be upset enough to threaten to leave the game?

    No. I definitely wouldn't want people to ever get used to this kind of exploitative pricing strategy.

    What for-profit pricing or marketing can you point to that isn't exploitative in this manner? Marketing and pricing, by their very nature in capitalism, are always about convincing people to pay as much as possible for whatever the company is selling.

    Given that Mike O'Brien claims they need to price Mountfits at 2000 gems, then how else would you have wanted them to roll out their system? The way they did? Or in a way that made it seem like they had a plan?

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I got tired of reading posts, but I don't know if anyone bothered to mention that you are getting more than just a skin....it's a skin with more than 1(one) dye channel, which is all you get with the original mounts. I believe most of the mount skins give you 4 dye channels...so figure that into the cost.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    This is how you get the most spent by the most people: start high, eventually go down. And as the price goes down, the likelyhood of more people getting it goes up. By the time no one else or very few more people would buy it, you lower the price, and what you get is way more people buying it for the lower price, and you earn more than what you'd earn from the few people less that would pay the full price.

    I'm not sold on this example. If the price will eventually go down, and everyone knows that it will, then no one will purchase at the "premium" price -- rather, they will wait for the price reduction which they know will occur. Sure, there is the likelihood of more people purchasing as the price goes down; however, there would probably not be anyone purchasing at the higher price. I know that I wouldn't.

    /me shrugs

    Tons of electronics start off selling at a premium and then gradually go down. I don’t see any reason that couldn’t occur within an online game’s store.

    Yeah, they gradually go down in price as newer electronics come out and replace the existing electronics, that is almost how all new electronics pricing works...no pricing is lowered until the next new got to have it item comes out to take its place.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Adenin.5973 said:
    the gemshop is where you get the cool stuff.

    Some interesting points, well expressed, but keep in mind just bow subjective "cool" is. With very few exceptions I, for example, find in game rewards to be more appealing than the gem shop options. To clarify, I mean overall, not just for mounts.I

  • Ayumi Spender.1082Ayumi Spender.1082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Despond.2174 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    The issue is that it takes about a year (for me at least) to get 500 gold is what I'm getting at.

    500g= 250 days of just doing your daily. Unless you only log in for those 5mins/day to do your daily on semi-regular basis, then I’d believe you when you said it takes a year for you to make 500g.

    Which is most of my game income actually. The daily is where I get most of my money outside the few times I do/can do Fractals.
    A lot of that money then goes into trying to make materials I need to craft ascended (which I still don't have a single ascended armour yet).

    I have 0 clue how to make gold in this game outside of the 2 from the daily and then the certain times when I remember to do Tequila, which I just remembered I didn't get to do today.

    Press Y to access LFG. Go to Core Tyira > Squads And usually there is a SW riba farm 3/4 of the time. Do that, follow the commander after the meta and loot all the chests. Open and salvage the chests on a 45-50 character, sell the mats. That's 15g/hr easily.

    Search LFG once more for leather farms, meta farms. I was in a 20g/hr leather farm the other day, was a 20 man group and a good com.

    Any method is fine, just use 15g/hr as a rough mark to see if it's worthwhile - though you may want to mix it up to not get bored. Sometimes I will farm something I know is not the best g/hr but it's something different.

    Make sure you try do at least 1 Auric Basin and 1 Tequatl per day. You may luck out on Teq and get a free box that's worth about 60-80g in mats. You could chain TD > AB as well in HoT metas and select the amalagamanted rune to sell for 1.7g+ on top of all the other loot.

    Or you could do something as simple as run across Timberlake or any tier 3-4 mat zone on a mount and mine/log. Usually it's about 1g per 5min. Either way you'll have to do something repetitive. You can also play the TP market, but you might want some bank before you do that.

    Issue there is you need those materials.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:
    It would be exploitation if it was mandatory to buy them. They aren’t. So I can’t agree with that statement.

    You mean the same way mount skins are mandatory?

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    This is how you get the most spent by the most people: start high, eventually go down. And as the price goes down, the likelyhood of more people getting it goes up. By the time no one else or very few more people would buy it, you lower the price, and what you get is way more people buying it for the lower price, and you earn more than what you'd earn from the few people less that would pay the full price.

    I'm not sold on this example. If the price will eventually go down, and everyone knows that it will, then no one will purchase at the "premium" price -- rather, they will wait for the price reduction which they know will occur. Sure, there is the likelihood of more people purchasing as the price goes down; however, there would probably not be anyone purchasing at the higher price. I know that I wouldn't.

    /me shrugs

    Nope. Because the key part of this is how long it will take to go down. You may think "6 months" or "1 year". But I'm thinking from one to over ten. Remember I used a game example. And when we are talking about games, there's games well over 25 years old.

    Things that are more QoL and content like a living world pack can take less time to get a permanent discount to 50-90%. But the more 'premium' or 'prestige' the thing is, the more time it'd take to go down in price. There's 15 year old games that have gotten to $1-5, but more famous games like Morrowind and Oblivion still stay strong at 15-10 out of sales.

    Do you think everyone will be willing to wait 5 years to use a skin, when they could use it now? When you keep the time frames that high and long. Those who can buy the stuff and can't wait, will buy it. But those who can't pay now no matter how much they want, will still have the much slower option of waiting. And the time frames can't be so short as mere months when we can buy gems with in-game coin to buy the stuff.

    The idea isn't making things cheaper. It's accepting the reality that a loaf of bread doesn't cost the same in every country. And that things have to be accessible, if we want everyone to join the fun. And once the price is lowered, what people would never buy gets bought. And instead getting just from some until no one else pays, after the brut of high price buyers runs out, we get bits from those who can now pay once the price goes down. A jar filled with rocks may weight 5Kg, but fill the gaps between the rocks with sand, and you get the jar to weight over double of that.

    Get more from more, and for more.

  • @Zoltreez.6435 said:

    @geochan.9184 said:
    25$ is nothing.

    Have you tried working in real life? you could easily rack in 100+ dollars a day with part time jobs alone. While if you're under-aged. You could try to farm in game gold, that's only about 500 gold if i remember correctly. If you could flip in trading post, it won't take more than a few days to get you that much.

    i LOL every time spoiled people bring up this argument....

    i make 40 dollars a day with a Full time job and i work my kitten off... and that's count a Well payed job in my country nowdays....

    People like me Value money you know.... im not against paying 25+ Dollars for in game stuff.... BUT FOR A MOUNT SKIN a mount that you 24/7 need to keep switching off from to another mount because terrain traverse are locked to them no freaking way worth that much

    Cut the price to half... and then i MAYBE say OKAY.....

    And the trade post flipping.... WE ARE TRYING TO PLAY A GAME HERE !!! not have a second job that also takes our free time... with this power i could pay with my IRL money that i worked for and also taken my free time away....

    Value Money, that's some really deep words.

    So kindly tell me what does valuing money exactly mean? Is there a standard for this? Is there a consensus we must obey? I think the measure of its value varies from people. Perhaps for you, you might think that money is something that should be used wisely and only to those of necessity. So in turn, what is necessity? For many, it's food and shelter, so when you have both of them, what else do you think should you be using your money for? For future? What for? I don't really know how do you plan to use those money but abstaining yourself from something you really like is sad, however that's not the case here, you're just trying to say that "It's just a mount skin" it shouldn't worth more than this and that. In what basis did you exactly determine that it shouldn't worth that much?

    For you, it might just be a mount skin, a petty stuff insignificant from our daily lives, but for anet, it could be their lifeline, it's their way to earn money to pay for their necessity in life. If 25$ is a lot for you in life, then so it is for anet. They are doing this for their living, and you are just complaining over a just a mount skin to you.

    I wonder who's the spoiled person now?

    Moving on, I was merely stating my opinion as well as options to get the mount skin. If only you could use the time spent here complaining to grind for gold instead.

    sigh.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    This is how you get the most spent by the most people: start high, eventually go down. And as the price goes down, the likelyhood of more people getting it goes up. By the time no one else or very few more people would buy it, you lower the price, and what you get is way more people buying it for the lower price, and you earn more than what you'd earn from the few people less that would pay the full price.

    And the items must be made purchasable from the hero panel, so when they have to be removed from the trading post to make room for other stuff, people can still buy it. Because the last thing you need when someone wants to buy something is not having it available at all. What if the whim fades by the time it retuns? No. People has to be able to just click the icon in the hero panel, pay the price, and get it. Even if it got removed from the trading post.

    Sorry, unless the person that has made the monetization policies is fired and they change them completely, that won't happen. Because having items be impermanent on the gemstore is HUGE factor on their strategy. I used to work on a very agressive consumer product sales company, and this is a major factor for sales.
    By adding a limit to the availability of the product, and pressuring the costumer to make a decision, you're more likely to make a sale. The most used phrase on the sales pitch was probably "it's now or never".
    The limited availability of gem store items serves the same principle. A lot of MMORPG players are completionists. We want every item on the list checked out, all skins unlocked, etc. By saying you might never get a chance to buy an item, a person will feel more pressured to buy it. And this way also reduces the time you have to buy with gold, increasing, maybe, gem sales.

    @Zedek.8932 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    Whatever price they start with, and whatever discounts they may get, the price needs to go down over time. So those who would never pay the full price will eventually buy it. All wins.

    No. We have "this kind of customer" as well. They are still buying "Happy New Year" items TODAY because we discounted them for 70%.
    But we are a business and not the "hand out free stuff because people wait after certain day"-company.

    Also, what's with new players? Are they supposed to get discounted items just because they are several years late?

    Sorry, but since I hate this kind of "customers", I already might skip several levels of empathy and sympathy, but:
    It's terrible that people nag so much about such stuff. I never will drive a Lamborghini, so what?
    You either want an item and buy it, or you are declining it and have to live with that.
    But always come up to the information desk at the store and nag, nag nag, this won't get you the item.
    It's a store a after all, not the social welfare office. Both applies to real life point of sale and ingame transactions.

    Excelsior.

    P.S.

    @ReaverKane.7598

    WoW and FF14 have a monthly subscription. So comparing "obtainable ingame mounts" with GW2's mount system is wrong. Also, after the current rip-off of the Carbuncle mount from the Gemstore, Squeenix is doing a terrible thing.

    I didn't create the "industry standard" argument, i'm just dismantling it. Also why is it wrong? I'm not saying they should have the same number of available mounts to players, i'm saying they shouldn't have none and then expect people to pay as much as those games where you have a wider choice without paying.
    In GW2 the only way to have a proper customization of your mount is buying from the gemstore. So that feels less like a choice, which is why, 3 months after the first mount skins released we're still having this discussion.
    Also the fact that Arena Net "depends" on gem store sales should incentivise them to improve the quality and the desirability of their products, not force unrealisable products that have marginal sales, hoping that hype and a huge price will offset the diminished number of items put out.
    And they're seeing it too. The first two were such fiascos that they started discounting the latest one.

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    This is how you get the most spent by the most people: start high, eventually go down. And as the price goes down, the likelyhood of more people getting it goes up. By the time no one else or very few more people would buy it, you lower the price, and what you get is way more people buying it for the lower price, and you earn more than what you'd earn from the few people less that would pay the full price.

    I'm not sold on this example. If the price will eventually go down, and everyone knows that it will, then no one will purchase at the "premium" price -- rather, they will wait for the price reduction which they know will occur. Sure, there is the likelihood of more people purchasing as the price goes down; however, there would probably not be anyone purchasing at the higher price. I know that I wouldn't.

    /me shrugs

    You're assuming that everyone is reasonable and has full control of their impulses. Good for a lot of businesses that's not the case.
    Most consumer products (including games as exemplified) will decrease in price with time. And yet you still see hundreds of people lining up at Apple stores to buy the latest piece of junk they sell, same with latest consoles, latest books, latest games, etc, etc.

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    I'm not sure that lowering the Gem price of items, over time, would ensure more cash for ArenaNet. It's not too difficult to obtain, say 100 Gems, in-game through the exchange. /shrug

    Well, those gems are already pre-bought and paid for, no loss for arena net. But it would probably increase purchases from people that don't have 25-30€ to spend on a single item, but can usually spend 5-10.

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    I got tired of reading posts, but I don't know if anyone bothered to mention that you are getting more than just a skin....it's a skin with more than 1(one) dye channel, which is all you get with the original mounts. I believe most of the mount skins give you 4 dye channels...so figure that into the cost.

    Oh, you're using the fact that they deliberately truncated your options to push people that really care about customization (99% of GW2 players) into buying mounts as the excuse to why mounts should be more expensive.
    That's funny in a sad, sad way...

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

    This is how you get the most spent by the most people: start high, eventually go down. And as the price goes down, the likelyhood of more people getting it goes up. By the time no one else or very few more people would buy it, you lower the price, and what you get is way more people buying it for the lower price, and you earn more than what you'd earn from the few people less that would pay the full price.

    I'm not sold on this example. If the price will eventually go down, and everyone knows that it will, then no one will purchase at the "premium" price -- rather, they will wait for the price reduction which they know will occur. Sure, there is the likelihood of more people purchasing as the price goes down; however, there would probably not be anyone purchasing at the higher price. I know that I wouldn't.

    /me shrugs

    Tons of electronics start off selling at a premium and then gradually go down. I don’t see any reason that couldn’t occur within an online game’s store.

    Yeah, they gradually go down in price as newer electronics come out and replace the existing electronics, that is almost how all new electronics pricing works...no pricing is lowered until the next new got to have it item comes out to take its place.

    Not really...
    Is there a PS5 yet? And yet PS4 has dropped in price by at least 100€.

    @geochan.9184 said:

    @Zoltreez.6435 said:

    @geochan.9184 said:
    25$ is nothing.

    Have you tried working in real life? you could easily rack in 100+ dollars a day with part time jobs alone. While if you're under-aged. You could try to farm in game gold, that's only about 500 gold if i remember correctly. If you could flip in trading post, it won't take more than a few days to get you that much.

    i LOL every time spoiled people bring up this argument....

    i make 40 dollars a day with a Full time job and i work my kitten off... and that's count a Well payed job in my country nowdays....

    People like me Value money you know.... im not against paying 25+ Dollars for in game stuff.... BUT FOR A MOUNT SKIN a mount that you 24/7 need to keep switching off from to another mount because terrain traverse are locked to them no freaking way worth that much

    Cut the price to half... and then i MAYBE say OKAY.....

    And the trade post flipping.... WE ARE TRYING TO PLAY A GAME HERE !!! not have a second job that also takes our free time... with this power i could pay with my IRL money that i worked for and also taken my free time away....

    Value Money, that's some really deep words.

    So kindly tell me what does valuing money exactly mean? Is there a standard for this? Is there a consensus we must obey? I think the measure of its value varies from people. Perhaps for you, you might think that money is something that should be used wisely and only to those of necessity. So in turn, what is necessity? For many, it's food and shelter, so when you have both of them, what else do you think should you be using your money for? For future? What for? I don't really know how do you plan to use those money but abstaining yourself from something you really like is sad, however that's not the case here, you're just trying to say that "It's just a mount skin" it shouldn't worth more than this and that. In what basis did you exactly determine that it shouldn't worth that much?

    For you, it might just be a mount skin, a petty stuff insignificant from our daily lives, but for anet, it could be their lifeline, it's their way to earn money to pay for their necessity in life. If 25$ is a lot for you in life, then so it is for anet. They are doing this for their living, and you are just complaining over a just a mount skin to you.

    I wonder who's the spoiled person now?

    Moving on, I was merely stating my opinion as well as options to get the mount skin. If only you could use the time spent here complaining to grind for gold instead.

    sigh.

    If it was their lifeline they'd do the math and realize that selling 1000 skins for 1000 gems is better than 100 skins for 2000.
    But MO said... I know what he said, he said a lot of things that never came to fruition. And since they NEVER before had sold any single items for over 1200 gems, i'd have to question where did the data come from for him to say that 2000 gem mounts would perform better for them.
    Is he a psychic? Doubt it, didn't predict the backlash for RNG mounts, or the prices.
    They need that price so bad, that they're actually already discounting them.

  • usnedward.9023usnedward.9023 Member ✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @usnedward.9023 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I don't see the problem. In other games, they really are just skins (that run faster), and 25 for a skin, well, that's a matter of personal choice.

    Just to put this in perspective.. a Scythe Skin (staff) sells for 2898 gold.. that's 10,986 Gems.. or put another way.. $137 cash.

    $137 for a weapon skin.. and you all are fussing about $25 for a Mount?

    Scythe Skin you can get in the game without gems so that is a very idiotic comparison.

    Really.. How?

    Same way I got my Ghastly Grinning Shield Skin that sells for over 2300g... BLC Wardrobe unlock. Weekly key farm. Didn't cost me a dime or gold :open_mouth:

    Key farm.. like the keys I can buy in the Gem Store?

    Sounds to me like its still a gem store item..

    Yes the key is a gem store item...sigh... but you can acquire by random drops, map completion and weekly key farm.
    Anywho, I was just giving an example to how you can get the scythe WITHOUT gems which. No you cannot buy scythe with gems but yes you can buy the key for the chance to get scythe skin. So really that was my point.

  • usnedward.9023usnedward.9023 Member ✭✭✭

    WE WANT MOUNTS!... we got mounts.... WE WANT SKINS... we got skins... WE DON'T WANT TO BUY SKINS! ... Too bad...they gotta fund this game somehow and pay for the mounts you wanted... Why is everyone so uptight? How much time do you really spend on these mounts?

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I don't see the problem. In other games, they really are just skins (that run faster), and 25 for a skin, well, that's a matter of personal choice.

    Just to put this in perspective.. a Scythe Skin (staff) sells for 2898 gold.. that's 10,986 Gems.. or put another way.. $137 cash.

    $137 for a weapon skin.. and you all are fussing about $25 for a Mount?

    Scythe Skin you can get in the game without gems so that is a very idiotic comparison.

    Oh, how do you get it in game? I can get a mount store, right now on the trading post. The only way to get the scythe skin is on the trading post, or maybe, MAYBE getting it as a guaranteed wardrobe unlock by buying a ton of black lion keys. I know it's possible because my wife got it a couple of months ago. But I sure didn't. So how exactly do I get this in game? It was a rare RNG drop from Halloweens past. By that standard the mount skin is infinitely more accessible.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    Cost: Without ANet taking the time to explain their thinking, the cost difference seems arbitrary, capricious, and abrupt.

    I don't know the development costs for outfits versus mountfits, but they don't seem all that different to me. If anything, I'd think designing single outifts for 5 races is trickier than rendering 5 similar mountfits for 5 different mounts. Plus, given that the two seasonal sets have a retail cost (at most) 2000 gems for five, it seems like even ANet thinks the resources required to produce them are comparable. Thus, I'd think it was in ANet's interest to explain to us the difference.

    Possibilities:

    • ANet did something with mount outfits that made them different and much more expensive to create than outfits. Unlikely.
    • ANet is testing the market to see what the market will bear. Likely.
    • ANet will explain the difference to the players. When pigs fly. > Implementation: Which brings us to how they rolled it out. Let's assume Mike O'Brien means what he said: that Mountfits really are costly to develop Let's also presume that he's right that, to sustain the game in the manner to which we are accustomed, ANet needs to find a smaller number of high-price-point items. According to him, that is more attractive to those willing and able to spend more RL cash on the game. (That sounds plausible, similar to a boat company making more money from selling a tiny number of yachts compared to selling lots of more economical vessels.)
      >
      > If all that is the case, why didn't they first rollout the fancy skins, to set our expectations about high prices? Imagine if the Warmount and Raptor of Paradise were released first at 2k each. Then the Halloween bundle of 5 skins at 1.6k looks like a crazy bargain... and the mount licenses would have been amazing at "only" 400 gems each. Instead, they did the opposite: show us the bundle first and get us used to the idea that Mountfits would be priced similarly to (and perhaps less than) Outfits. That feels more manipulative than the way they did it. Not what I would have wanted.

    I think you're thinking too hard about this. I don't think they sat and planned we're going to release these skins in this order to maximize the manipulation of the community. I think they put out the Halloween skins first, because it was halloween and they had that deadline and they probably stopped working on other stuff until that stuff was ready to ship in time. That was a time-sensitive priority after all. You can't really sell the halloween skins for Chrismas. I think the other skins are longer term projects, the expensive ones I mean, that are released pretty much as they're finished.

    I think the 400 gem random skins were supposed to be something that increased the variety of what people saw in the game for not that much money.

    It's easy to think this is some grand elaborate plan to pull the wool over our eyes, but I don't know that there's any evidence for it. Surely the way it was released, if they had thought about it, would have been far different. I could have predicted the reaction.

  • Ayumi Spender.1082Ayumi Spender.1082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I don't see the problem. In other games, they really are just skins (that run faster), and 25 for a skin, well, that's a matter of personal choice.

    Just to put this in perspective.. a Scythe Skin (staff) sells for 2898 gold.. that's 10,986 Gems.. or put another way.. $137 cash.

    $137 for a weapon skin.. and you all are fussing about $25 for a Mount?

    Scythe Skin you can get in the game without gems so that is a very idiotic comparison.

    Oh, how do you get it in game? I can get a mount store, right now on the trading post. The only way to get the scythe skin is on the trading post, or maybe, MAYBE getting it as a guaranteed wardrobe unlock by buying a ton of black lion keys. I know it's possible because my wife got it a couple of months ago. But I sure didn't. So how exactly do I get this in game? It was a rare RNG drop from Halloweens past. By that standard the mount skin is infinitely more accessible.

    Aren't you guys talking about the staff you can get as a drop from Shadow Behemoth?

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I don't see the problem. In other games, they really are just skins (that run faster), and 25 for a skin, well, that's a matter of personal choice.

    Just to put this in perspective.. a Scythe Skin (staff) sells for 2898 gold.. that's 10,986 Gems.. or put another way.. $137 cash.

    $137 for a weapon skin.. and you all are fussing about $25 for a Mount?

    Scythe Skin you can get in the game without gems so that is a very idiotic comparison.

    Oh, how do you get it in game? I can get a mount store, right now on the trading post. The only way to get the scythe skin is on the trading post, or maybe, MAYBE getting it as a guaranteed wardrobe unlock by buying a ton of black lion keys. I know it's possible because my wife got it a couple of months ago. But I sure didn't. So how exactly do I get this in game? It was a rare RNG drop from Halloweens past. By that standard the mount skin is infinitely more accessible.

    Aren't you guys talking about the staff you can get as a drop from Shadow Behemoth?

    Nope...here's a link to the skin we're talking about:

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scythe_Staff_Skin

  • Felipe.1807Felipe.1807 Member ✭✭✭

    Someone might have said this before, but anyway...the main problem(to me atleast) is not the price...they want to charge 2000gems per skin and 400gems for the random ones? They can do whatever they want, i dont care at all, i dont need any of that to play the game, even if some of the skins are cool(The jackal and the other new, yeah, i forgot the name of that flying thing) aint gonna spend 2000 gems on thatm to much for me...they didnt drop the price so far(even if the new one got a 20% discount...), so that means that there are people buying this stuff, i know personally people who allready have all the mount skins...but to get to the point, what really bothers me, is that theres not a single mount skins to get in game...in a game that is all about collecting skins, theres not one mount skin to get on it, by actually playing it...just think for a secound if the same was done to weapons and armor skins...have to run around on noob white gear lol but hey! Its not a problem right? You dont need cool skins to play the game, so would be okay if Anet actually ended up doing this am i right? I mean, the gear would give you all the stats that you need, want to look cooler with that Cultural armor set or Dungeon armor, well first pay up lol 700 gems lol

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not feeling the syphthy with this one, some items are going to be in the store, some items are going to be in game. There is no reason nor was there any promise by Anet that players would be able to earn everything in game. Quite frankly, being able to buy gems with gold invalidates any complainants. You can earn everything in the gem shop in the game because of that.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Grim West.3194Grim West.3194 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018

    Haven't bought any mount skins, and have no intention to.

    Bought a few glider skins, regret it because now the Griffon is usually the better option.

  • Fluffball.8307Fluffball.8307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If they lower the price anymore, the masses will just use gold to get them and anet makes no money. Considering there isn't really any reason to give a darn about these skins or whether or not you have one, it's fine as is.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018

    @Einlanzer.1627 said:
    The problem with charging $25 for a mount skin is:

    a.) it's just a skin
    b.) all the new skins so far are through the gem shop
    c.) we have five types of mounts that often need to be swapped between.

    O'Brien defended this as industry standard, but even if this was a good argument (it isn't), it actually isn't really true. In other games, $25 skins are only released occasionally as premium skins to supplement what can be found in the game, and they are usually entirely new creatures with special effects that can be used exclusively if desired by the player.

    I can't help but think things like this drive players away in the long run even if some people are paying for it now. Getting ahead of "it's optional, and they have to make money from somewhere" arguments, yes, and I'm happy to support them by buying things through the gem store (mostly gold and reasonably priced skins), but I think there's a strong argument to be made that they're trying to monetize too many things in too many ways simultaneously, which starts to make the whole game reek of desperate cash grab schemes. IMO, that's not the right way to do things.

    Not sure where Mike O talks about "industry standard"? Was that on reddit?

    "Hi,
    We made a commitment to you in March 2012 that we’d fund GW2 live development through non-pay-to-win microtransactions. We try different ideas, but we always hold true to that commitment. We’ve been collecting and discussing your feedback on the Mount Adoption License, and today I’d like to acknowledge and respond to the concerns you’ve raised, and to share our perspective with you.
    You have valid concerns about random boxes. We hoped that the design of the Mount Adoption License would be reassuring. In this case, we made some missteps:
    At a time when there’s a lot of debate about random boxes in gaming, we should have anticipated that a new system with a random element would cause alarm.
    We released mount skins with three different purchase models, but with the majority of skins released so far through the Adoption License. It’s easy to perceive this as intentionally channeling you toward randomization.
    The Adoption License is a large set at 30 skins. We stand by the work our artists put into each skin, but it’s understandable to see this as pushing down the odds of acquiring any one skin, and to worry that we might add more skins to lower the chances further.
    Here are some of the benefits we had in mind when designing the Mount Adoption License:
    You get a brand-new, unique mount skin every time, for a substantial discount versus an individual purchase price.
    It uses a progressive mechanic. Every license gives you a new skin to use and increases the odds of acquiring any remaining skins.
    You’ve requested variety, and this is a way to support variety. Individual sale is a mechanic that works with a few, flashy skins. Using a grab bag mechanic gives us leeway to create skins to suit a wide range of player tastes while offering a lower price per skin.
    Microtransactions can be polarizing, and we’ve received both positive and negative feedback on the license. We won’t change the existing license in a way that would invalidate the investment players have made, but I want to confirm to you that our next planned mount skin releases will focus on individual sales like the Reforged Warhound and bundles like the Spooky Mounts Pack. We will not add any skins to the currently available Adoption License, thus not pushing down the odds of acquiring any one skin in that set.
    We appreciate the thoughtful feedback many of you have provided, and that you hold us to high standards for monetization. It’s been a challenging but wonderful goal to support live development and Living World purely through optional microtransactions, and it’s your support that’s made that possible. Thank you.
    ~ MO"

    ...You can always trade your FREE game gold for FREE gems, and get whatever you want from the gem store for FREE! Awesome right? I seem to think so!!! It's really amazing, and generous, of Anet to give players an option to get all this cool stuff for FREE, while also giving FREE monthly access to the game!!! Anet da best!!!

  • @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Given that Mike O'Brien claims they need to price Mountfits at 2000 gems, then how else would you have wanted them to roll out their system? The way they did? Or in a way that made it seem like they had a plan?

    I missed where he stated that they needed to roll them out at that price, but if so, that is very telling about ANET. When you consider outfits require more work to fit the various races, and sometime more work is done to create say different pants based on race, let alone the differences of gender, and outfits go for 700 gems. And yet for mounts, it is one size (scaling) for all, with some slight changes in character/race positioning on the mounts, no gender differences....

    Did they screw up with the pricing of outfits, or are they lying about the price needed for the mount skins? Only anet has the answer for this.

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