Do You Raid? - Page 5 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Do You Raid?

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  • DearlyMe.5320DearlyMe.5320 Member ✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    I'd love to see the stories, but no. I hear too much about toxic people to bother. I take games at my leisure. I aim for the best gear I can find, but on my time since I stick to PvE and don't necessarily need that better gear for it. I prefer PvE. Plus, I also like using my gold to buy skins and minis and my crafting is still way too low to make my own stuff. So I'll stay out on the maps for now.

    Mains :: Gwenyna (Sylvari Chronomancer) and Nyniendha (Sylvari Reaper)
    7 Sylvari | 7 Asura | 3 Norn | 3 Human | 4 Charr
    https://dearlyme.tumblr.com/

  • Other (State your thought).

    I'd like to because I want legendary weapons and armor really badly but the amount of time and effort it would require plus the amount of gold I'd need to spend to even attempt starting simply wouldn't be worth it to me. I don't want to devote all of my time to just raiding and I sure as heck don't want to be a bannerslave or be forced into a very specific role with a very specific meta build. I like being able to focus on abilities and specializations that are a bit more flashy and fun for me than mastering a meta rotation of a meta build so I can best support my raid in whatever role I'd end up in.

    For me it's fun to try to find the best balance between solo survivability and damage to the point that I can solo numerous mobs at once or even solo many of the various hero HoT hero point champions. As a raider I wouldn't have that. I'd have a very specific role and be expected to completely focus on that role, gear, stats, everything.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018
    No, not interested.

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

    You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

    I don't believe that. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the metric tools were too expensive, production wise, to invest in.

    Necro. Never knowingly blasting combo fields since 2012.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @trianglecubed.3750 said:
    I'd like to because I want legendary weapons and armor really badly but the amount of time and effort it would require plus the amount of gold I'd need to spend to even attempt starting simply wouldn't be worth it to me.

    You don't need to raid to make a legendary weapon.. try making one of those first.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Yes, regularly.

    @Mea.5491 said:
    I don't see the point of raids considering the fact that Legendary gear offers the same stats as Ascended and I can craft the latter for dirt cheap. I also don't need the side effects of raids in my life (aka rude players).

    The point of raids is to experience challenging content. Rewards are mostly secondary.

  • IndigoSundown.5419IndigoSundown.5419 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    Dungeons failed, so this point is moot.

    They didn't fail. They were abandoned. Big difference.

    Dungeons may have succeeded as content for players who do not care as much about the whole hard-instanced-MMO-content construct. That was not the design intent, though. Dungeons lacked the need for coordination by skilled groups of players, which was the original intent. They were abandoned because they failed at their intended purpose, to be the game's equivalent of raids.

    Care to support that with a source? Because the main reasons why they were abandoned that i saw all commented only on their messy code that just took too much of an effort to fix.
    Also, up until the very moment Anet decided to cut their lifeline, they were still extremely popular. Can't really call that a failure.
    (also, i have already commented on that "equivalent of raids" before - i'm pretty sure you are reading way too much in those statements than they meant)

    You want evidence in the form of an ANet statement? Haven't got one. Do you?

    I find it interesting that you pooh-pooh some ANet statements and take others as gospel.

    Besides, the day I believe that what ANet tells us is the whole story is the day I give up my cynicism license.

    That said, how would developers feel if their game's hardest content was:

    • soloed regularly?
    • trivialized to the point where many paths could be done in a few minutes, all the time?
    • players used maybe 15% of what their characters could do and ignored everything else?
    • beset with constant comments, for years, about this hardest content being "face-roll easy?"

    I know how I'd feel. I do believe that the effort needed to fix those issues was more trouble then they were worth, but not that the oft-cited spaghetti code excuse is the whole story.

    Dungeons were popular for two reasons: for a long time, rewards for doing them regularly were competitive with playing in other areas of the PvE game; and because they were easy enough to be accessible to a much wider demographic than ANet said they were aimed at.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • Seteruss.4058Seteruss.4058 Member ✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    No need of that kind of toxicity ty.

  • @ListenToMe.5130 said:

    @Mea.5491 said:
    I don't see the point of raids considering the fact that Legendary gear offers the same stats as Ascended and I can craft the latter for dirt cheap. I also don't need the side effects of raids in my life (aka rude players).

    The point of raids is to experience challenging content. Rewards are mostly secondary.

    Gonna have to disagree here. Take away the unique rewards and raids would most likely completely die. This has been shown through the lack of players self imposing difficulty upon themselves. Since it doesn't offer any extra incentive than regular difficulty, it is very, very rarely done. Those that do usually record and post it for the fanfare.

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    @Essence Snow.3194 said:

    @ListenToMe.5130 said:

    @Mea.5491 said:
    I don't see the point of raids considering the fact that Legendary gear offers the same stats as Ascended and I can craft the latter for dirt cheap. I also don't need the side effects of raids in my life (aka rude players).

    The point of raids is to experience challenging content. Rewards are mostly secondary.

    Gonna have to disagree here. Take away the unique rewards and raids would most likely completely die. This has been shown through the lack of players self imposing difficulty upon themselves. Since it doesn't offer any extra incentive than regular difficulty, it is very, very rarely done. Those that do usually record and post it for the fanfare.

    So if dungeons got more meaningful rewards people would do them? Brilliant!

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018
    Yes, regularly.

    @Svarty.8019 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

    You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

    I don't believe that. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the metric tools were too expensive, production wise, to invest in.

    I apologize for bursting your bubble but Chris Cleary, something like the head of security of ANET (known for the Quip Challenge amongst other things) already shared info like that on raids and would probably do it for other game modes, you can check this tweet responses for more stats regarding raids:

    Ben (fractal dev) often mentions they keep metrics like clear times too.

    As in they actually can tell things like how many people a raid boss kill or how long people take to clear an instance. Nothing "expensive" there.

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

    You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

    And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

    I am sure they have the numbers.. but what they don't have is the "why".

    "Why do those people raid and these people don't?"

    And any developer that is not asking that question is not invested into their work.

    So are you telling me you believe the devs aren't invested in their work or are you telling me you know the reasons behind all this better than they do?

    Both things are just assumptions on your part but want to know what assumption is the one you're making.

  • Yes, regularly.

    Not to the point of clearing everything, but I recently found a training community and have been killing a half dozen of the easier/middling difficulty bosses a week while learning the rest slowly.

    Despite what some may say, the raid content isn't "easy" during the learning phase, it becomes that way once you and the people you're grouping with have all figured it out and practiced enough to do the mechanics without too many major mistakes. It takes time to get there, and if you're not with the same group each week, it can take even more time.

    There's also the problem of nothing in the game really teaching you how to dps/do your rotations well. In many cases, it feels really spammy, too.. compared to other MMOs that have a global cooldown, dpsing efficiently can feel pretty frantic on every class, let alone something like a weaver. High level fractals have similar mechanical requirements, but in most cases if your dps is a little lower you'll get there if you are good enough at staying alive. That's true for a couple of raid bosses, but not most of them.

    All that said, I'm enjoying the content, I just wish it was far less frustrating to learn the underlying knowledge that you're expected to have ("go hit a dps golem for an hour" might be effective, but it sure isn't fun).

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

    You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

    And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

    I am sure they have the numbers.. but what they don't have is the "why".

    "Why do those people raid and these people don't?"

    And any developer that is not asking that question is not invested into their work.

    So are you telling me you believe the devs aren't invested in their work or are you telling me you know the reasons behind all this better than they do?

    Both things are just assumptions on your part but want to know what assumption is the one you're making.

    No.. I am telling you that coming to these forums, and reading the posts, connecting with the community, will give them insight that metrics can't... and that.. is not an assumption that is a fact.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Other (State your thought).

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Chamelion.9536 said:
    "Other" Seen far, far, FAR too many posts about the toxicity of having to be perfect, or otherwise 'git gud' before even getting into it. I'm a casual player who would love to delve into new content, but I want to only have fun, not work my kitten off for what little reward their may be. Did that with HoT masteries (LOL).

    C

    Implying HoT masteries were hard work. Delving is work.

    So when you say you 'would like to delve'. You are lying. Because if you wanted to delve into something you would put in the work to do so.

    If you are unwilling to work for something you want, then you never really wanted in the first place. You just say and 'think' you do.

    What an idiotic response. It's like you cherry picked keywords and replied in such a way as to not even understand the entire premise of my response. No, I don't want to delve into raiding because I hear too many 'horror' stories to bother.... I do like new content (bought both expansions, log in day one to living world), but to have fun, not to deal with elitists/jerks and those who don't have patience for 'newbies'.. which I would be until I got gud. There's enough of that in good ol regular PVE maps, anyway.

    The very old, cliche' and worthless "It wasn't difficult for me to do 'so-n-so' so I can't accept it may have been more challenging for someone else" is pathetic. Some of the HOT masteries took me longer to accomplish than it did for others, but I'm maxed out so I 'delved in' and learned and got it done. Of course, I didn't need to group with nine others that expected me to be perfect from the get-go, I could re-do, re-try and learn at my pace.. just took longer than others.

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018
    Yes, regularly.

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

    You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

    And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

    I am sure they have the numbers.. but what they don't have is the "why".

    "Why do those people raid and these people don't?"

    And any developer that is not asking that question is not invested into their work.

    So are you telling me you believe the devs aren't invested in their work or are you telling me you know the reasons behind all this better than they do?

    Both things are just assumptions on your part but want to know what assumption is the one you're making.

    No.. I am telling you that coming to these forums, and reading the posts, connecting with the community, will give them insight that metrics can't... and that.. is not an assumption that is a fact.

    They do read the posts, that of course doesn't mean they have to answer to anyone.

    Things you believe in aren't facts or rather shouldn't be if you want healthy discussion and so far most people here have been treating beliefs as some sort of panacea. Not like it matters because the ship is going full speed ahead.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

    You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

    And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

    I am sure they have the numbers.. but what they don't have is the "why".

    "Why do those people raid and these people don't?"

    And any developer that is not asking that question is not invested into their work.

    So are you telling me you believe the devs aren't invested in their work or are you telling me you know the reasons behind all this better than they do?

    Both things are just assumptions on your part but want to know what assumption is the one you're making.

    No.. I am telling you that coming to these forums, and reading the posts, connecting with the community, will give them insight that metrics can't... and that.. is not an assumption that is a fact.

    They do read the posts, that of course doesn't mean they have to answer to anyone.

    Things you believe in aren't facts or rather shouldn't be if you want healthy discussion and so far most people here have been treating beliefs as some sort of panacea. Not like it matters because the ship is going full speed ahead.

    Asking why people do/n't play content will answer why they do/n't play that content better then a number on a screen telling you they do/n't play that content, is a self evident truth.

    It's not anything you or I have control over.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

    You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

    And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

    I am sure they have the numbers.. but what they don't have is the "why".

    "Why do those people raid and these people don't?"

    And any developer that is not asking that question is not invested into their work.

    So are you telling me you believe the devs aren't invested in their work or are you telling me you know the reasons behind all this better than they do?

    No. He's telling you that numbers from metrics are not enough, and threads like this one where people explain the "why" are of at least an equal worth to the devs. Because without player feedback it's easy to misinterpret the metrics.

    Just remember, that the devs once decided to remove one of the dungeon paths, because their metrics were showing that it was the least run path of all dungeons (meaning, almost noone was running it). Then remember why almost noone was running it (which was the info not present in Anet's metrics).

    That was a really good example on how reading the metrics alone can go really, really wrong.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    I would love to raid and am an experienced raider, I simply haven't found the time to do it in GW2. There is still tons of content which I need to do which don't have the organizational requirements of raiding; I haven't even finished my Dungeon achievements, or the new Fractals since Chaos.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks again for all those providing feedback!

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Yes, regularly.

    I don't understand half of the comments here about raiding being for elitists or sadists or the such. I raid regularly and even if I've already cleared a boss I will go and help training raids for that boss to invite as many people as I can into this community. Sure there are a few people out there who stick to the LI requirement. But I've often times joined groups who require a certain amount of LI which I haven't achieved but by speaking to the commander I can convince (and by showing kp) that I can do the raids. I will be given a chance and if I can't deliver then I expect to be kicked. If I still need to learn the boss I would have to organise a training raid for that boss, not join a group that know what they're doing and expect them to carry me.

    Also the time requirement. I started off doing purely pugging raids. Literally my first clear was with a pug where everyone in that pug had not done this boss at all. Yet we learned the mechanics, learned the rotations, had the correct gear and we spent about 2 hours on that one boss (Vale Guardian). But my God was it an incredible feeling when we finally defeated it and I finally got my first LI.

    Don't get me wrong, 2 hours doesn't mean it's uninterupted and it was only 2 hours because there was no-one there to guide us (tell us what to do and such), we had to remind each other what we should all do. If you were to join a training raid made by a group of experienced raiders (my guild and I do this) then you would definitely clear it much faster). Nowadays I only need to spare an hour of my time to clear a raid wing and I've only been raiding for about 2 months (with large breaks inbetween). Also I saw a comment earlier saying it was funny how PvEr's pretended that PvE requires skill. I PvP on a regular basis and WvW. I can honestly say hand on heart that if you think t4 fractals and raids don't require skill then I challenge you to complete a single raid wing on CM without being whiped.

  • No, tried it but didn't work out.

    pve and pve raiding are different things. You can in fact PVE with little skill, but not raid. You will get slaughtered in pvp. As for PVE raidng it needs a very different skill from wvw and pvp, where the former requires rote memorization of limited rotations and boss scripted events and the latter requires deep knowledge of ALL classes and skills to be able to react to your opponent and to know when to attack/defend.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018
    Yes, regularly.

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

    You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

    And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

    I am sure they have the numbers.. but what they don't have is the "why".

    "Why do those people raid and these people don't?"

    And any developer that is not asking that question is not invested into their work.

    So are you telling me you believe the devs aren't invested in their work or are you telling me you know the reasons behind all this better than they do?

    No. He's telling you that numbers from metrics are not enough, and threads like this one where people explain the "why" are of at least an equal worth to the devs. Because without player feedback it's easy to misinterpret the metrics.

    Just remember, that the devs once decided to remove one of the dungeon paths, because their metrics were showing that it was the least run path of all dungeons (meaning, almost noone was running it). Then remember why almost noone was running it (which was the info not present in Anet's metrics).

    That was a really good example on how reading the metrics alone can go really, really wrong.

    They do have player feedback and they do have metrics so I fail to see what is the issue or the thing that is going wrong in the particular case of raids, they had their "why" since the moment they introduced raids and always aimed it to be a niche the same way ranked PvP or WvW are.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

    You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

    And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

    I am sure they have the numbers.. but what they don't have is the "why".

    "Why do those people raid and these people don't?"

    And any developer that is not asking that question is not invested into their work.

    So are you telling me you believe the devs aren't invested in their work or are you telling me you know the reasons behind all this better than they do?

    No. He's telling you that numbers from metrics are not enough, and threads like this one where people explain the "why" are of at least an equal worth to the devs. Because without player feedback it's easy to misinterpret the metrics.

    Just remember, that the devs once decided to remove one of the dungeon paths, because their metrics were showing that it was the least run path of all dungeons (meaning, almost noone was running it). Then remember why almost noone was running it (which was the info not present in Anet's metrics).

    That was a really good example on how reading the metrics alone can go really, really wrong.

    They do have player feedback and they do have metrics so I fail to see what is the issue or the thing that is going wrong in the particular case of raids, they had their "why" since the moment they introduced raids and always aimed it to be a niche the same way ranked PvP of WvW are.

    The player feed back is this forum.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Discoteka.2758Discoteka.2758 Member ✭✭
    edited January 6, 2018
    No, tried it but didn't work out.

    I raided for a few months with a raiding guild. The attitudes that raiding brings out is a huge turn off for me. I also got tired of doing the same thing every week. It took up a large chunk of my very little available play time. I also don't like the predictability of the mechanics...they should be randomized a bit more imo...but that won't get me back into it.

    I killed everything (with the exception of w5 as it wasn't released yet) and it just got very stale and the toxicity is kitten.

    ETA I don't like the way the builds are used and demanded now. I like more flexibility and don't like to memorize kitten rotations...that's not playing to me. I also hate that Condition is so expensive to gear and is required for a good majority of these button memorizing builds.

  • DarkForcE.9210DarkForcE.9210 Member ✭✭
    edited January 7, 2018
    No, tried it but didn't work out.

    Not much PUBG raid training out there (some were give up on 1/4 progress), plus... taking too much time of my precious after work available hours

    Killed VG only once (for mastery point leveling) and then...NOPE for the rest of my GW2 careers (unless there's a patience class for beginners out there)

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, sometimes.

    @Zoltreez.6435 said:

    @Super Hayes.6890 said:
    I accept that I don't have the time or skill. What burns me is that there isn't an option to play the raids on an easy setting with zero rewards so I can at least experience the story. I'm stuck reading a wiki for that :(

    yep i never in my life gonna ever see DHUUM in this game... Locking a Core Lore figure in the GW world away into Raids.... THX ANET !!!!! not....

    Did you fight Dhuum in gw1? I would have considered him a raid like boss back in the Underworld. I recall having to gather several different groups in an attempt to fight Dhuum and eventually I got a kill. Not sure how it’s any different now.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2018
    Yes, sometimes.

    I do, but only sometimes. Got bored of it. Too much of a hassle, and not rewarding enough. I already got one armor set, and I don't like the other two, so I won't bother. My LIs are sleeping in the bank. I don't know if I'll get the new legendary ring either.

    Also, most of my friends are not good enough for raids, and since there's no "easy mode" for proper training, I can't play with them.

    If you want another poll, check this one, about raid easy/normal/hard modes..

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:
    That said, how would developers feel if their game's hardest content was:

    • soloed regularly?
    • trivialized to the point where many paths could be done in a few minutes, all the time?
    • players used maybe 15% of what their characters could do and ignored everything else?
    • beset with constant comments, for years, about this hardest content being "face-roll easy?"

    Funny, because that's happening to raids too, and will keep happening until they get a real hard mode.

    @Essence Snow.3194 said:

    @ListenToMe.5130 said:

    @Mea.5491 said:
    I don't see the point of raids considering the fact that Legendary gear offers the same stats as Ascended and I can craft the latter for dirt cheap. I also don't need the side effects of raids in my life (aka rude players).

    The point of raids is to experience challenging content. Rewards are mostly secondary.

    Gonna have to disagree here. Take away the unique rewards and raids would most likely completely die. This has been shown through the lack of players self imposing difficulty upon themselves. Since it doesn't offer any extra incentive than regular difficulty, it is very, very rarely done. Those that do usually record and post it for the fanfare.

    See Twilight Arbor Aetherpath. Best dungeon hands down, no one did it because the reward/effort ratio was awful.

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

    You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

    And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

    I am sure they have the numbers.. but what they don't have is the "why".

    "Why do those people raid and these people don't?"

    And any developer that is not asking that question is not invested into their work.

    So are you telling me you believe the devs aren't invested in their work or are you telling me you know the reasons behind all this better than they do?

    No. He's telling you that numbers from metrics are not enough, and threads like this one where people explain the "why" are of at least an equal worth to the devs. Because without player feedback it's easy to misinterpret the metrics.

    Just remember, that the devs once decided to remove one of the dungeon paths, because their metrics were showing that it was the least run path of all dungeons (meaning, almost noone was running it). Then remember why almost noone was running it (which was the info not present in Anet's metrics).

    That was a really good example on how reading the metrics alone can go really, really wrong.

    Exactly. They stopped doing dungeons because, in their words, Twilight Arbor Aetherpath was too hard and people didn't play it.

    When in fact, the reason no one was playing it was it had awful rewards, back when CoF1 farming and world boss trains were a thing.

    Metrics are garbage without proper context.

  • No, not interested.

    I don't for many reasons that have already been stated in the forum (i.e. elitist attitudes, far too selective, etc.) But there's really nothing that raiding can give me that I need for the game to be fun. The only thing is the extended storyline that comes with raiding that I would like to enjoy but it's not worth it for enduring negative players and being judged. I enjoy my leisure solo playing and not having to change my characters or play style to fit into certain groups.

  • Alehin.3746Alehin.3746 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2018
    Yes, regularly.

    The reason the PvE section is not as "popular" as the PvP one is because people are actually playing the game instead of complaining on the forum. Keep crying tho, it is kinda entertaining!

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    Not tried yet. Thought about it though. Need better gear and a useful meta build i actually wanna play.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, regularly.

    Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.
    Guess I am just lucky.

    On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Yes, sometimes.

    I raid sometimes, but T4 Fractals are exponentially more challenging and they way they are challenging is better than raiding. If a time limit is the hardest thing about an encounter... The encounter needs to be reworked.

    "He shall make whole that which was torn asunder,
    Restore that which was lost, and all shall be as one."

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.
    Guess I am just lucky.

    On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

    I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2018
    No, not interested.

    'Do You Raid?'

    Where important matters are continuously being: avoided and unaddressed....

    Not in this game.

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, regularly.

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.
    Guess I am just lucky.

    On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

    I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

    Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.
    Guess I am just lucky.

    On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

    I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

    Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

    The problem is,if they set it up so that Raids are "End game" then everyone will want to do them. Now in games that have raids from the start, it's not such a big matter, as everyone walking in knows they need to either get gud, or they wont be end -game.

    Some games have varying raids, like easy Raids, Hard Raids, and often the solution to most of these games is power creep. Power Creep allows more casual players to level beyond a raid, and then do it, maybe for the story, or maybe because of a look or even in some cases the raid gear is still better then the higher level loot-gen gear, so it's worth it to hem to still do the Raid over level. So there is still a motive.. and all the "hard core" players have moved on to the next harder raid.

    MMO's built that way.. work.. because that kind of system works with that kind of game content.

    In a game like GW2, it does not work as well, because there is no leveling power creep, thus the raids become stagnant, those that do them will memorize them to the point that they are trivial and boring, and this demand harder and harder content.

    Where in games like WoW that was easily provided by a level up, a new raid that was harder then the last one, and the gear that will make it easy is locked behind the raid itself., by the time people master that content, they put out a new expansion, and keep the process going. Perfect for people that enjoy raids and the challenge associated with them.

    GW2 has trapped themselves by saying they would have no Level-Up power creep. So the raids we have today will remain max level.. and for raiders they will spiral down to bland and boring. and for those that can't do them they will remain forever out of their reach.

    GW2 was in every way, the wrong game set up to add raids.

    Games like WoW were perfect in their game set up and system for Raids.

    You can see it in this topic alone, people get their armor, their gear, and.. then.. much like Dungeons after you got the gear,, Raids lose their shine. If the rewards in raids remain Good, people will farm them like they did CoF, and much like CoF farm, if you were not experienced and and didn't have the right build.. you would pretty much never going to get into a group.

    It's not "Raids" that are the problem. Raids are amazing in some games, they are the games life blood,.. but GW2 is just the wrong game system for them.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, regularly.

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.
    Guess I am just lucky.

    On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

    I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

    Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

    The problem is,if they set it up so that Raids are "End game" then everyone will want to do them. Now in games that have raids from the start, it's not such a big matter, as everyone walking in knows they need to either get gud, or they wont be end -game.

    Some games have varying raids, like easy Raids, Hard Raids, and often the solution to most of these games is power creep. Power Creep allows more casual players to level beyond a raid, and then do it, maybe for the story, or maybe because of a look or even in some cases the raid gear is still better then the higher level loot-gen gear, so it's worth it to hem to still do the Raid over level. So there is still a motive.. and all the "hard core" players have moved on to the next harder raid.

    MMO's built that way.. work.. because that kind of system works with that kind of game content.

    In a game like GW2, it does not work as well, because there is no leveling power creep, thus the raids become stagnant, those that do them will memorize them to the point that they are trivial and boring, and this demand harder and harder content.

    Where in games like WoW that was easily provided by a level up, a new raid that was harder then the last one, and the gear that will make it easy is locked behind the raid itself., by the time people master that content, they put out a new expansion, and keep the process going. Perfect for people that enjoy raids and the challenge associated with them.

    GW2 has trapped themselves by saying they would have no Level-Up power creep. So the raids we have today will remain max level.. and for raiders they will spiral down to bland and boring. and for those that can't do them they will remain forever out of their reach.

    GW2 was in every way, the wrong game set up to add raids.

    Games like WoW were perfect in their game set up and system for Raids.

    You can see it in this topic alone, people get their armor, their gear, and.. then.. much like Dungeons after you got the gear,, Raids lose their shine. If the rewards in raids remain Good, people will farm them like they did CoF, and much like CoF farm, if you were not experienced and and didn't have the right build.. you would pretty much never going to get into a group.

    It's not "Raids" that are the problem. Raids are amazing in some games, they are the games life blood,.. but GW2 is just the wrong game system for them.

    There is no true end game in Gw2 which makes the rest of your post completely irrelevant.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.
    Guess I am just lucky.

    On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

    I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

    Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

    The problem is,if they set it up so that Raids are "End game" then everyone will want to do them. Now in games that have raids from the start, it's not such a big matter, as everyone walking in knows they need to either get gud, or they wont be end -game.

    Some games have varying raids, like easy Raids, Hard Raids, and often the solution to most of these games is power creep. Power Creep allows more casual players to level beyond a raid, and then do it, maybe for the story, or maybe because of a look or even in some cases the raid gear is still better then the higher level loot-gen gear, so it's worth it to hem to still do the Raid over level. So there is still a motive.. and all the "hard core" players have moved on to the next harder raid.

    MMO's built that way.. work.. because that kind of system works with that kind of game content.

    In a game like GW2, it does not work as well, because there is no leveling power creep, thus the raids become stagnant, those that do them will memorize them to the point that they are trivial and boring, and this demand harder and harder content.

    Where in games like WoW that was easily provided by a level up, a new raid that was harder then the last one, and the gear that will make it easy is locked behind the raid itself., by the time people master that content, they put out a new expansion, and keep the process going. Perfect for people that enjoy raids and the challenge associated with them.

    GW2 has trapped themselves by saying they would have no Level-Up power creep. So the raids we have today will remain max level.. and for raiders they will spiral down to bland and boring. and for those that can't do them they will remain forever out of their reach.

    GW2 was in every way, the wrong game set up to add raids.

    Games like WoW were perfect in their game set up and system for Raids.

    You can see it in this topic alone, people get their armor, their gear, and.. then.. much like Dungeons after you got the gear,, Raids lose their shine. If the rewards in raids remain Good, people will farm them like they did CoF, and much like CoF farm, if you were not experienced and and didn't have the right build.. you would pretty much never going to get into a group.

    It's not "Raids" that are the problem. Raids are amazing in some games, they are the games life blood,.. but GW2 is just the wrong game system for them.

    There is no true end game in Gw2 which makes the rest of your post completely irrelevant.

    if that was true.. no one would have asked for raids

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2018
    Yes, regularly.

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.
    Guess I am just lucky.

    On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

    I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

    Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

    The problem is,if they set it up so that Raids are "End game" then everyone will want to do them. Now in games that have raids from the start, it's not such a big matter, as everyone walking in knows they need to either get gud, or they wont be end -game.

    Some games have varying raids, like easy Raids, Hard Raids, and often the solution to most of these games is power creep. Power Creep allows more casual players to level beyond a raid, and then do it, maybe for the story, or maybe because of a look or even in some cases the raid gear is still better then the higher level loot-gen gear, so it's worth it to hem to still do the Raid over level. So there is still a motive.. and all the "hard core" players have moved on to the next harder raid.

    MMO's built that way.. work.. because that kind of system works with that kind of game content.

    In a game like GW2, it does not work as well, because there is no leveling power creep, thus the raids become stagnant, those that do them will memorize them to the point that they are trivial and boring, and this demand harder and harder content.

    Where in games like WoW that was easily provided by a level up, a new raid that was harder then the last one, and the gear that will make it easy is locked behind the raid itself., by the time people master that content, they put out a new expansion, and keep the process going. Perfect for people that enjoy raids and the challenge associated with them.

    GW2 has trapped themselves by saying they would have no Level-Up power creep. So the raids we have today will remain max level.. and for raiders they will spiral down to bland and boring. and for those that can't do them they will remain forever out of their reach.

    GW2 was in every way, the wrong game set up to add raids.

    Games like WoW were perfect in their game set up and system for Raids.

    You can see it in this topic alone, people get their armor, their gear, and.. then.. much like Dungeons after you got the gear,, Raids lose their shine. If the rewards in raids remain Good, people will farm them like they did CoF, and much like CoF farm, if you were not experienced and and didn't have the right build.. you would pretty much never going to get into a group.

    It's not "Raids" that are the problem. Raids are amazing in some games, they are the games life blood,.. but GW2 is just the wrong game system for them.

    There is no true end game in Gw2 which makes the rest of your post completely irrelevant.

    if that was true.. no one would have asked for raids

    You are really confused on what end game is and means.

    End game is content that you do for character power progression which doesn't really exist in this game at least in the form of Raiding, PvP'ing, WvW fractals etc.. which is considering end game in other games because the best gear and character stat increasing is tied to it. You choose to Raid and PvP because that is your preferred content.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    Nah, not anymore.

    Gw2 raids are boring. The items are hideous so my collector's syndrome won't bring me to do it like the rest of the content. I know how to dodge and been PvPing for 2+ years so it ain't gonna teach me that. Rotations I learned from when dungeons were popular so it ain't teaching me that. I gain more gold an hour than any raider I met during the times I farm so it ain't giving me gold.

    So what's left? Ugly legendary armor and ascended trinkets? I have mostly ascended characters. Sorry fam, but that's still not enough for me lol.

  • IndigoSundown.5419IndigoSundown.5419 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Zoltreez.6435 said:

    @Super Hayes.6890 said:
    I accept that I don't have the time or skill. What burns me is that there isn't an option to play the raids on an easy setting with zero rewards so I can at least experience the story. I'm stuck reading a wiki for that :(

    yep i never in my life gonna ever see DHUUM in this game... Locking a Core Lore figure in the GW world away into Raids.... THX ANET !!!!! not....

    Did you fight Dhuum in gw1? I would have considered him a raid like boss back in the Underworld. I recall having to gather several different groups in an attempt to fight Dhuum and eventually I got a kill. Not sure how it’s any different now.

    The difference between adequate builds and optimal builds in GW was much smaller than the similar difference in GW2. Look at the damage force multipliers that the GW2 buff system churns out. Sure, GW had synergy, and best setups for speed runs. However, my guild would sometimes do UW or FoW runs in GW without maximizing our setup. We never even sniffed speed run numbers, but were able to complete the runs without too much trouble.

    GW2 raids are not, of course, tuned for the most optimal party setup. However, they are tuned to at least offer a challenge to players who are going to bring the optimal. Given the difference in effectiveness, that means that a lot of builds which are adequate anywhere else in GW2 (other than, perhaps, ranked PvP or premade WvW groups) are more likely to fail.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • JVJD.4912JVJD.4912 Member ✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:
    Nah, not anymore.

    Gw2 raids are boring. The items are hideous so my collector's syndrome won't bring me to do it like the rest of the content. I know how to dodge and been PvPing for 2+ years so it ain't gonna teach me that. Rotations I learned from when dungeons were popular so it ain't teaching me that. I gain more gold an hour than any raider I met during the times I farm so it ain't giving me gold.

    So what's left? Ugly legendary armor and ascended trinkets? I have mostly ascended characters. Sorry fam, but that's still not enough for me lol.

    This exactly the same way me and my older guild felt. We were actually counting on the legendary armor to awe us but......so much disappointment that day lol

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.
    Guess I am just lucky.

    On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

    I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

    Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

    The problem is,if they set it up so that Raids are "End game" then everyone will want to do them. Now in games that have raids from the start, it's not such a big matter, as everyone walking in knows they need to either get gud, or they wont be end -game.

    Some games have varying raids, like easy Raids, Hard Raids, and often the solution to most of these games is power creep. Power Creep allows more casual players to level beyond a raid, and then do it, maybe for the story, or maybe because of a look or even in some cases the raid gear is still better then the higher level loot-gen gear, so it's worth it to hem to still do the Raid over level. So there is still a motive.. and all the "hard core" players have moved on to the next harder raid.

    MMO's built that way.. work.. because that kind of system works with that kind of game content.

    In a game like GW2, it does not work as well, because there is no leveling power creep, thus the raids become stagnant, those that do them will memorize them to the point that they are trivial and boring, and this demand harder and harder content.

    Where in games like WoW that was easily provided by a level up, a new raid that was harder then the last one, and the gear that will make it easy is locked behind the raid itself., by the time people master that content, they put out a new expansion, and keep the process going. Perfect for people that enjoy raids and the challenge associated with them.

    GW2 has trapped themselves by saying they would have no Level-Up power creep. So the raids we have today will remain max level.. and for raiders they will spiral down to bland and boring. and for those that can't do them they will remain forever out of their reach.

    GW2 was in every way, the wrong game set up to add raids.

    Games like WoW were perfect in their game set up and system for Raids.

    You can see it in this topic alone, people get their armor, their gear, and.. then.. much like Dungeons after you got the gear,, Raids lose their shine. If the rewards in raids remain Good, people will farm them like they did CoF, and much like CoF farm, if you were not experienced and and didn't have the right build.. you would pretty much never going to get into a group.

    It's not "Raids" that are the problem. Raids are amazing in some games, they are the games life blood,.. but GW2 is just the wrong game system for them.

    There is no true end game in Gw2 which makes the rest of your post completely irrelevant.

    if that was true.. no one would have asked for raids

    You are really confused on what end game is and means.

    End game is content that you do for character power progression which doesn't really exist in this game at least in the form of Raiding, PvP'ing, WvW fractals etc.. which is considering end game in other games because the best gear and character stat increasing is tied to it. You choose to Raid and PvP because that is your preferred content.

    LOL.. sure.. keep telling yourself that.
    I've had this exchange more times then I care to admit. sorry.. not worth the effort to do it again.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @JVJD.4912 said:

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:
    Nah, not anymore.

    Gw2 raids are boring. The items are hideous so my collector's syndrome won't bring me to do it like the rest of the content. I know how to dodge and been PvPing for 2+ years so it ain't gonna teach me that. Rotations I learned from when dungeons were popular so it ain't teaching me that. I gain more gold an hour than any raider I met during the times I farm so it ain't giving me gold.

    So what's left? Ugly legendary armor and ascended trinkets? I have mostly ascended characters. Sorry fam, but that's still not enough for me lol.

    This exactly the same way me and my older guild felt. We were actually counting on the legendary armor to awe us but......so much disappointment that day lol

    The heavy looks like heavy kitten ornate can, the medium looks like you skinned a dragon the wrong way, and the light looks like you took the flamekissed and winged skins, and glued them together with random kitten spikes.

    Idk but the rest of the folk that do high tier content, but I actually don't wish to look like an ugly, colorful rainbow blob of light and disaster while I do my fractals, raids, PvP, WvW or whatever else.

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, regularly.

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.
    Guess I am just lucky.

    On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

    I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

    Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

    The problem is,if they set it up so that Raids are "End game" then everyone will want to do them. Now in games that have raids from the start, it's not such a big matter, as everyone walking in knows they need to either get gud, or they wont be end -game.

    Some games have varying raids, like easy Raids, Hard Raids, and often the solution to most of these games is power creep. Power Creep allows more casual players to level beyond a raid, and then do it, maybe for the story, or maybe because of a look or even in some cases the raid gear is still better then the higher level loot-gen gear, so it's worth it to hem to still do the Raid over level. So there is still a motive.. and all the "hard core" players have moved on to the next harder raid.

    MMO's built that way.. work.. because that kind of system works with that kind of game content.

    In a game like GW2, it does not work as well, because there is no leveling power creep, thus the raids become stagnant, those that do them will memorize them to the point that they are trivial and boring, and this demand harder and harder content.

    Where in games like WoW that was easily provided by a level up, a new raid that was harder then the last one, and the gear that will make it easy is locked behind the raid itself., by the time people master that content, they put out a new expansion, and keep the process going. Perfect for people that enjoy raids and the challenge associated with them.

    GW2 has trapped themselves by saying they would have no Level-Up power creep. So the raids we have today will remain max level.. and for raiders they will spiral down to bland and boring. and for those that can't do them they will remain forever out of their reach.

    GW2 was in every way, the wrong game set up to add raids.

    Games like WoW were perfect in their game set up and system for Raids.

    You can see it in this topic alone, people get their armor, their gear, and.. then.. much like Dungeons after you got the gear,, Raids lose their shine. If the rewards in raids remain Good, people will farm them like they did CoF, and much like CoF farm, if you were not experienced and and didn't have the right build.. you would pretty much never going to get into a group.

    It's not "Raids" that are the problem. Raids are amazing in some games, they are the games life blood,.. but GW2 is just the wrong game system for them.

    There is no true end game in Gw2 which makes the rest of your post completely irrelevant.

    if that was true.. no one would have asked for raids

    You are really confused on what end game is and means.

    End game is content that you do for character power progression which doesn't really exist in this game at least in the form of Raiding, PvP'ing, WvW fractals etc.. which is considering end game in other games because the best gear and character stat increasing is tied to it. You choose to Raid and PvP because that is your preferred content.

    LOL.. sure.. keep telling yourself that.
    I've had this exchange more times then I care to admit. sorry.. not worth the effort to do it again.

    Being wrong is not the end of the world.

  • Auri.1365Auri.1365 Member ✭✭
    edited January 8, 2018
    Yes, regularly.

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    GW2 raids are not, of course, tuned for the most optimal party setup. However, they are tuned to at least offer a challenge to players who are going to bring the optimal. Given the difference in effectiveness, that means that a lot of builds which are adequate anywhere else in GW2 (other than, perhaps, ranked PvP or premade WvW groups) are more likely to fail.

    You can for example do Gorse (no updraft, so with high dps check) with a non-meta setup. Our main chrono tank wasn't there and another exp chrono didn't have time either. So we had a semi exp chrono with no tank gear and me with hardly any experience on chrono and no tank gear as well.
    So in the end we had a scourge as tank, two not very exp chronos, a newbie who hasn't done Gorse before and in general people not playing their usual class/role.
    And it still worked.
    (BTW my guild raids casually and we don't even do full clears and most of us just do average dps)

    There are many builds and setups that work without being meta.

  • Other (State your thought).

    Loved raiding in Wildstar and SW:TOR and hoping to get into it here once I get around to looking for a guild to hang out with. Not quite ready for that yet but not too much longer.

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