Does damage need to be tone down across the board? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Does damage need to be tone down across the board?

Zackie.8923Zackie.8923 Member ✭✭✭

I see people "1 shotting" others everywhere like deadeyes , backstab thieves, shatter mesmers etc..

is the dmg in game coming to a point where its too high?

Comments

  • primatos.5413primatos.5413 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    Not coming to .. imo it IS .. increasing dmg output by not scaling up health pools at least a little made this possible i think .. when i look back at the days when -for example- well played fresh-air ele was competitive to well played thiefs / mesmers there was exciting fights possible .. today (almost) no fresh-air ele is out there roaming guess why ..

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    warriors need a buff what choo talkin bout nerf

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • ThomasC.1056ThomasC.1056 Member ✭✭✭

    Of course it is ! When you take a glimpse at PvE, you understand that any random trash mob has more HP than an average WvW player. So damage has been scaled accordingly, and here we are in WvW, with skills, builds and synergies set up for mobs with hundreads of thousands HP, used against characters with 20k.

    So, either damage needs to be toned down across the board, or just add 25k HP to each and every character.

    Look at that—you broke Scruffy's sarcasm meters. ~ Taimi.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2018

    there has been oneshotting since the game launched, just now you need to oneshot alot of people as they will be back at full hp the moment after your hit if it is not a onehit. so now we need oneshots or enough constant preassure to still be able to kill supporters without needing 10 people and this sustained damage then will again kill most people that are not supporters in an instant or in a few seconds. the amount of active defense like blocks, evades,invulnerablilties and boons is just too much in combination with the amount of heals we got. the low HP pools just help to kill people in between their support spamming, higher HP pools will give room for more errors of supporters and make them unkillable aside from outnumbering them.

    the question that you need to ask yourself is how long should fights last. currently they are either very short or infinite but both is possbile. now if we nerf damage we will only have infinite fights, if we nerf sustain we will only have instant fights. to have a little longer but ending fights, we need to tone down both damage and sustain by alot.
    but aside from all this, most fights in WvW are won by numbers and in the ones with equal amount of opponents there is mostly a huge disparity in skill level. so i dont think balance decisions like overall damage vs sustain will affect outcomes of most fights in WvW, they will just change how much fun you will have or with what fotm annoyance you got to deal and for how long, while hammering your forehead on the keyboard.

    @primatos.5413 said:
    Not coming to .. imo it IS .. increasing dmg output by not scaling up health pools at least a little made this possible i think .. when i look back at the days when -for example- well played fresh-air ele was competitive to well played thiefs / mesmers there was exciting fights possible .. today (almost) no fresh-air ele is out there roaming guess why ..

    you dont see many fresh air eles roaming cause they cant escape outnumbered situation that good and you will mostly fight outnumbered while roaming, has nothing to do with lack of damage. fresh air ele can deal tons of it. since PoF i have seen more fresh air eles again, was less after HoT..

  • I do think it needs to be toned down a bit. Especially Deadeye and Mes. There is no good way to block a deadeye's shot in an open field fight. And the fact that a Mes can go invisible and one shot you is ridiculous. I am all for those classes having a good burst as they are typically squishy AF, but it is just too much atm IMO.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mylerian.9176 said:
    I do think it needs to be toned down a bit. Especially Deadeye and Mes. There is no good way to block a deadeye's shot in an open field fight.

    you should not try to block the shot, you should dogge it as it can be made unblockable with basi venom. shouldnt be too hard to keep one dogge / range CC in 1 on 1 against a deadeye if you see he is running M7 over BQoBK and in groupfights an other profession/build would most probably provide more to his team cause DJ will often not hit the marked target and wont kill other targets.
    i see alot more posts in the forum about deadeyes than actual other deadeyes ingame and those mostly play some builds with BQoBK and will not onehit aside from squishies, wich they could also onehit with a backstab.

    if you are not fullglas to get a 25% chance to survive a oneshot use rune of durability. if the hit procs the boons, you wil get the damagereduction of the protection also for the hit, that proct it. you dont have to do anything just need the rune and you are safe(with 25% chance), then spamm all your heals and invuln and what ever in panic and you should be good. you shoudnt be running fullglas when not able to dogge a DJ / mesmer burst anyway.

    the only oneshots that i would understand complains about in current state of game are oneshots with a backstab as they are only avoidable by either running away if you can or lucky prediction. but oneshots with backstab will only work against squshies and most thieves dont play offensive enough for this.
    all the other 'oneshots' are avoidable and therefor fine in current spamm and autoprocs.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No but classes with bunker skills do. Stealth IS a bunker skill.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:
    No but classes with bunker skills do. Stealth IS a bunker skill.

    not in the gw2 world :) that for most doesnt even count as a surviability skill...

  • xDudisx.5914xDudisx.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes, reduce the dmg output. Specially condi dmg.

  • shiri.4257shiri.4257 Member ✭✭✭✭

    would like 8s endure pain on my SB. Each one.

    Spectre [VII] - Wood League Champion. Making "fight guilds" stack on higher tiers since 2013.
    Michelin rated WvW guild since 2015. The gold standard. Never transferred, never reformed, adapting and reloading with or without Anet.

  • Arlette.9684Arlette.9684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018

    An across the board toning down of damage or alternatively across the board scaling of health pools by at least 75% seems absolutely necessary.
    Stealth is no longer a survivability mechanic as the amount of cleave and AoE rolling is just bonkers.
    More often than not you jump into the anti pvp circle and you drop in the split second that it takes for the game to register you pressed dodge/invulnerability.
    It’s absolutely Mind Bending.
    It is true Guild Wars has always had low TTK, but what we have now is borderline Insta Gib (Hail UT2003!) fest all around.

    Vae Victus!
    [Hcm] Promotraitor

  • Jana.6831Jana.6831 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    there has been oneshotting since the game launched, just now you need to oneshot alot of people as they will be back at full hp the moment after your hit if it is not a onehit.

    First of: My one shot is in fact a two to three shot: I use 3 skills within 0,3 seconds (Well, it's about 0,7 seconds - and only works on 'zerker' players who have got no passives - and well, most do have passives thanks to the trait merges).
    All 'one shots' (except probably deadeye's rifle) are more than 'one' shots.
    That aside: It was possible for thieves and probably mesmers back in the day, then thieves were nerfed, it still was possible for both probably and after the ferocity patch April (15 th) 2014 it wasn't possible to 1,2,3 shot anyone anymore. So it hasn't always been in game. The June 2015 patch was when they merged the traits and got rid of the gear bound stats and that was when things started to go out of control. They also simply merged traits whichever way they liked without looking at the interactions between professions, so that went wrong as well. The damage translation for PvE/WvW was too high. They never had a follow up balance patch and just released HoT on top of that which was massive powercreep into all directions, so regarding HoT and even June Patch you're right: 'Everybody' had too much defenses so the 'damage' became neccessary. The following 'balance' patches were mostly MOAR DAMAGE without any clue where to go with the game. That's why it's hardly competitive anymore because they let things go wrong for too long and are now afraid to fix it.
    (I hope this post makes sense)

    Edit: Grammar.

    the gentle art of making enemies.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zackie.8923 said:
    I see people "1 shotting" others everywhere like deadeyes , backstab thieves, shatter mesmers etc..

    is the dmg in game coming to a point where its too high?

    I'm playing this as the new in-game music. It's a better fit for the new nonsense gameplay than that old orchestral stuff.

    Necro. Never knowingly blasting combo fields since 2012.

  • RodOfDeath.5247RodOfDeath.5247 Member ✭✭✭

    Pretty much Spell breaker and scourge wars now. Diversity dies more with these cheesy mechanics.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Every class should be given equal access to one shot skills, one shot combos and stealth, and finally one shot aoes.
    It would make combat more exciting.
    Spvp will finally be revived and the pro players will return.
    Wvw will finally be rid of players and shut down.

    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon."
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WoAH!"
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes absolutely!

    In wvw, revs are still dealing 7-15k crits from 1200 range with a non-projectile, aoe strike on 4s cooldown.

    I think the solution is to obviously is to nerf trueshot on Dragonhunter again.

  • Trajan.4953Trajan.4953 Member ✭✭✭

    How about just doubling everyone's health pool.

  • Klipso.8653Klipso.8653 Member ✭✭✭✭

    True balance can be achieved if they would just give guardians stealth

    -Balwarc [ICoa]

  • Kiroshima.8497Kiroshima.8497 Member ✭✭✭

    Instead of reducing damage, which would make bunkers/healer support even more annoying, I'd rather the health pools of all classes be doubled (or increased by w/e percentage). Vitality would get a similar boost. Necro Shroud would have to scale at half (or w/e) rate it does currently of course.

    The reason why I would boost hp is that it will still give players leeway to make mistakes (instead of getting 1 shot, you get 1 more combo to die), without making healing OP (since when you have double health, you need more healing power/effects to fill your health).

    In addition, I'd like a Power Based anti healing condition for classes without Poison Access, in order to deny healing of enemies more (no need to kill the firebrand support, if you just negate his healing). Lets call it Deep Wound, like in GW1. Each stack would reduce max hp and globally reduce healing received by say, 40%. Buff Poison to 40% healing denied, and allow it to stack with Deep Wound.

    Deep Wound would be applied on weapon skills that are slow/require setup (like Final Thrust or Gravedigger), or the end of auto chains (Thief MH Sw), with very long durations as it doesn't do any damage and is more about supressing your opponent (20 seconds minimum). Consistant auto pressure should be successful as a strategy as long as your opponent is just eating them, while some burst moves act as superior finishers and should reduce the enemy's ability to recover from their losing position.

    Spammable attacks (or fast ones) MAY apply Deep Wound but only for extremely short durations (Heartseeker comes to mind), like 2 seconds.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018

    @Jana.6831 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    there has been oneshotting since the game launched, just now you need to oneshot alot of people as they will be back at full hp the moment after your hit if it is not a onehit.

    First of: My one shot is in fact a two to three shot: I use 3 skills within 0,3 seconds (Well, it's about 0,7 seconds - and only works on 'zerker' players who have got no passives - and well, most do have passives thanks to the trait merges).
    All 'one shots' (except probably deadeye's rifle) are more than 'one' shots.
    That aside: It was possible for thieves and probably mesmers back in the day, then thieves were nerfed, it still was possible for both probably and after the ferocity patch April (15 th) 2014 it wasn't possible to 1,2,3 shot anyone anymore. So it hasn't always been in game. The June 2015 patch was when they merged the traits and got rid of the gear bound stats and that was when things started to go out of control. They also simply merged traits whichever way they liked without looking at the interactions between professions, so that went wrong as well. The damage translation for PvE/WvW was too high. They never had a follow up balance patch and just released HoT on top of that which was massive powercreep into all directions, so regarding HoT and even June Patch you're right: 'Everybody' had too much defenses so the 'damage' became neccessary. The following 'balance' patches were mostly MOAR DAMAGE without any clue where to go with the game. That's why it's hardly competitive anymore because they let things go wrong for too long and are now afraid to fix it.
    (I hope this post makes sense)

    Edit: Grammar.

    well seeing as OP included mesmers into his oneshot list, i thought in this thread while talking about oneshots it includes very fast multihits. both the april 2014 and the june 2015 patch were not towards nerfing oneshot potential but to simplify stats/traits and we had them back shortly after.
    against squishies my deadeye still does up to over 20k backstab, not rifle and therefor can onehit them pretty much unavoidable. and as i dont run d/d like you, i dont trigger passives while going into stealth, i am sitting in permastealth till the hit. soo could hit even more actually if i dropped SA.

    before that june 2015 patch i had alot more 1 on 1 encounters while roaming and therefor was also roaming on other classes than thief, since then they got less patch by patch and while fighting outnumbered a low TTK is pretty helpful (at least as a stealth heavy class) so i am actually not sure if i want anet to tune down damage and sustain for a little longer fights, as i dont think that will suddenly make people roam solo again. lets say i will then need on average 40 seconds for a kill, that will get to 3-4 minutes while outnumbered in wich they will only need a few seconds together to kill me, thats a long time to make a mistake. currently my opponnents can kill me instant, i can kill my opponents instant so while outnumbered i just need to split my opponents enough so that they wont be able to rez in time and therefor it is still doable. now if we had more execute skills like final blow from daredevil, then it would be a diffrent story but with higher TTK, downedstate will get more value again and this mechanic has allways carried groups with worse players but more of them to kill a few.

    so whatever they do, it will cause new issues. and still many here dont seem to be able to grasp, what will happen when we only nerf damage or buff sustain..'fixing' one issue to create a worse one is not really what anet should do IMO.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018

    @Trajan.4953 said:
    How about just doubling everyone's health pool.

    Players would switch to PvE builds (Berserker gear + max damage traits) as they would become viable with higher health pools and we would have the same problems again - and even worse as Berserker would be the defacto meta across all game modes.

    It would only make sense to adress health pools and expect a balance improvement if this was the only defense in the game. Imagine a Firebrand Heal Bunker with 38k HP or a team of Scourges with 50k HP and another 20k stacked barriers.

  • Soggy Biscuit.9372Soggy Biscuit.9372 Member ✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018

    Yeah. Whatever they do, it will make already unkillable slippery mother kitten even more unkillable, and we would be lucky if they decide to address that in the next few years.

  • JVJD.4912JVJD.4912 Member ✭✭✭

    @RodOfDeath.5247 said:
    Pretty much Spell breaker and scourge wars now. Diversity dies more with these cheesy mechanics.

    Ppl who want to win -dont care about class, spec, balance , diversity etc
    They just want the cheesiest way to get the job done , it all about meta addict
    Their fun = winning

    Inorder, to counter such ppl you need to make every class the same which inherently destroys diversity
    So its lose-lose situation

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zackie.8923 said:
    I see people "1 shotting" others everywhere like deadeyes , backstab thieves, shatter mesmers etc..

    is the dmg in game coming to a point where its too high?

    =) i think 1 shot kill is not balanced. combo resulting to enemy death, however, is just fine.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    No but classes with bunker skills do. Stealth IS a bunker skill.

    not in the gw2 world :) that for most doesnt even count as a surviability skill...

    So in a game like GW2 with action like combat being able to become untargetable and unseen you effectually become invariability. You can still get hit but its a % effect base off of players skills and a number of skills no longer work. As well as added effect on stealth such as heal and condi clear. Stealth should be an aggrieve tool but in GW2 it is a bunker tool.

    In other games stealth is just stealth not healing or clears and often stealth cant be used in "combat" only at the start of it.

    Being able to one shot is not a bad thing because of down state the problem is being able to one shot and able to do it agen right after or being able to get out for effectually free. Its the skills like stealth or other bunker effects that lets ppl burst and run away IS the problem with wvw.

    If a thf or mez was only able to one shot at the cost not having a real out then the ideal of one shot and dmg over all in wvw would not be seen as a problem because it would be an all in attk.

    Stealth and other bunker skills is the problem in wvw not dmg (this is true for all things in wvw condi dmg and the one shot builds).

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018

    @Kiroshima.8497 said:
    Instead of reducing damage, which would make bunkers/healer support even more annoying, I'd rather the health pools of all classes be doubled (or increased by w/e percentage). Vitality would get a similar boost. Necro Shroud would have to scale at half (or w/e) rate it does currently of course.

    The reason why I would boost hp is that it will still give players leeway to make mistakes (instead of getting 1 shot, you get 1 more combo to die), without making healing OP (since when you have double health, you need more healing power/effects to fill your health).

    In addition, I'd like a Power Based anti healing condition for classes without Poison Access, in order to deny healing of enemies more (no need to kill the firebrand support, if you just negate his healing). Lets call it Deep Wound, like in GW1. Each stack would reduce max hp and globally reduce healing received by say, 40%. Buff Poison to 40% healing denied, and allow it to stack with Deep Wound.

    Deep Wound would be applied on weapon skills that are slow/require setup (like Final Thrust or Gravedigger), or the end of auto chains (Thief MH Sw), with very long durations as it doesn't do any damage and is more about supressing your opponent (20 seconds minimum). Consistant auto pressure should be successful as a strategy as long as your opponent is just eating them, while some burst moves act as superior finishers and should reduce the enemy's ability to recover from their losing position.

    Spammable attacks (or fast ones) MAY apply Deep Wound but only for extremely short durations (Heartseeker comes to mind), like 2 seconds.

    I like the idea of deep wound, but putting it on thief sword auto with that kind of duration would be insanely OP in a condi S/D build with how DA traits like panic strike function. Quite frankly I'd favour not giving access to deep wound to thief at all, if it were introduced, since we have probably got the best access to poison of any class and we are one of the best mobile DPS types anyways.

    I'd limit it to specific elite specs if you were going to do it, as that would make it way easier to control how it combos (Scrapper could use it, but Holosmith would be crazy with it, for instance). It's a good idea though, would be interesting to shake things up.

    On topic, I agree that the damage is crazy, but it's been a reaction to the stupid sustain that some elite specs have. If you want to tone down damage you need to tone down survivability as well, either that or just add 5k to everyone's healthpool and see how that changes things.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018

    @Kiroshima.8497 said:
    Instead of reducing damage, which would make bunkers/healer support even more annoying, I'd rather the health pools of all classes be doubled (or increased by w/e percentage). Vitality would get a similar boost. Necro Shroud would have to scale at half (or w/e) rate it does currently of course.

    The reason why I would boost hp is that it will still give players leeway to make mistakes (instead of getting 1 shot, you get 1 more combo to die), without making healing OP (since when you have double health, you need more healing power/effects to fill your health).

    In addition, I'd like a Power Based anti healing condition for classes without Poison Access, in order to deny healing of enemies more (no need to kill the firebrand support, if you just negate his healing). Lets call it Deep Wound, like in GW1. Each stack would reduce max hp and globally reduce healing received by say, 40%. Buff Poison to 40% healing denied, and allow it to stack with Deep Wound.

    Deep Wound would be applied on weapon skills that are slow/require setup (like Final Thrust or Gravedigger), or the end of auto chains (Thief MH Sw), with very long durations as it doesn't do any damage and is more about supressing your opponent (20 seconds minimum). Consistant auto pressure should be successful as a strategy as long as your opponent is just eating them, while some burst moves act as superior finishers and should reduce the enemy's ability to recover from their losing position.

    Spammable attacks (or fast ones) MAY apply Deep Wound but only for extremely short durations (Heartseeker comes to mind), like 2 seconds.

    bunkers/healers what ever mostly got alot of condi cleanses and will be able to remove deep wound easily and it will hit non bunkers more.
    having more hp wont require more healing power to heal, if the damage is not increased. the only thing it will do is give bunkers more chance to fail some and heal up again. currently i only see either glass cannons or bunkers or condi bunkers that have stustain of the bunker and damge of the glasscannon - not many people that use balanced (like a mix of not too offensive not too defensive) stats they lack both sustain to survive glasscannons and the damage to kill anything and therefor die. with double HP, glass cannon will still onehit a glass cannon, glass will no longer kill a bunker as the sustained damage is not as good as the sustained healing while the burst wont be enough anymore to bypass this issue, balanced build like some warriors will have even less chance to kill anyone but might survive some glass cannon now, condi ones are even harder to take down and will force their opponents to use more cleanses as the longer the fight the stronger is condi as anet said.
    i dont see how the annoyance level drops with that changes. as a mainly solo roaming thief, currently mostly on a deadeye build i can assure you that you will not kill me if not pretty much instant, it is really hard for most opponents to strip me of my 12k hp already, with 24 i am pretty much god mode then and still be able to oneshot squishies and annoy the hell out of my opponents by playing hide and seek in their keeps/towers and the lords are even less risky then. currently i am allways nervous while fighting the bosses as someone might gank me , but with double hp.. :D

  • Nuka Cola.8520Nuka Cola.8520 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2018

    I'd like to see that. Removing food would be a beginning.

    And to every scrub saying "try to dodge the mesmers one shot"... you do know its coming from stealth? You do know stealth is stackable and the person can come out of stealth at any time? Say i run Mass Invis, i have a 5sec window to 1 shot your kitten. When will you be dodging? better, i stack it with Decoy and maybe The Prestige for a troll 1shot, that's 11sec of stealth. When are you dodging? Yea, you ain't dodging anything (unless you're on Mirage). Or go in stealth, use the sword iLeap for the immob, wep swap into the mirror blade/mind wrack/mind stab, good luck dodging while immobed and most certainly stunned from Confunding Suggestions/Diversion.

    On some classes its easier to deal against this, but on others, its ridiculous.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2018

    @Zackie.8923 said:
    I see people "1 shotting" others everywhere like deadeyes , backstab thieves, shatter mesmers etc..

    is the dmg in game coming to a point where its too high?

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  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No because that is what downed state is for,

    rofl

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

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