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Renegade help

LaFurion.3167LaFurion.3167 Member ✭✭✭

Desperate cry for help to fix renegade some time soon.

I unlocked it and tried the bow for 2 seconds vs normal mobs before realizing how badly designed it was. Renegade is just an absolute flop; on top of the gimmicky hard to land bow skills and f1-f3 skills, the class (core, Herald, and renegade) all suffer from mediocrity.

I think the problem lies with utility skills being tied to legends. Some people have suggested allowing utility skills to be chosen freely; maybe even just for renegade? It is highly unlikely that bow and renegade f skills will be completely redesigned (which is the only thing that can make the class playable), so maybe this would allow for some customization and in order for players to find builds that make the renegade elite spec even viable?

Or are bow and f1 skills so badly designed it's beyond repair? I'm genuinely disappointed in renegade... it is without a doubt my best absolute top fashion wars character but I never play it due to it being so bad..

Comments

  • Flauvious.6195Flauvious.6195 Member ✭✭✭

    Renegade works once you get used to it, does good dps and provides some kitten to the group. It just feels like garbage to play with it's clunky, boring utilities and completely random tacked on f skills.

    Why does one of them give alacrity? Is renegade supposed to be a support spec? You mean like herald is supposed to be a support spec, but also had to be everything else since core rev was never designed to work for anything?

    And yes the bow is terribly designed, use mace/axe and only pull out bow when you can't get into melee. It's like the bow was never tested at all. Every skills is horrendously slow, 7 shot becomes 2 shot if you are in any situation besides exactly 900 distance from your target and the ground is completely flat, wide open and there's absolutely nothing in the way, skills 2 and 4 miss if your target is like moving at all...

    Renegade was clearly thrown together last minute and the unique buff kallas fervor was stitched on just to force this mess into relevancy.

  • Cuon Alpinus.7645Cuon Alpinus.7645 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018

    @Flauvious.6195 said:
    Renegade works once you get used to it, does good dps and provides some kitten to the group. It just feels like garbage to play with it's clunky, boring utilities and completely random tacked on f skills.

    Why does one of them give alacrity? Is renegade supposed to be a support spec? You mean like herald is supposed to be a support spec, but also had to be everything else since core rev was never designed to work for anything?

    And yes the bow is terribly designed, use mace/axe and only pull out bow when you can't get into melee. It's like the bow was never tested at all. Every skills is horrendously slow, 7 shot becomes 2 shot if you are in any situation besides exactly 900 distance from your target and the ground is completely flat, wide open and there's absolutely nothing in the way, skills 2 and 4 miss if your target is like moving at all...

    Renegade was clearly thrown together last minute and the unique buff kallas fervor was stitched on just to force this mess into relevancy.

    Renegade actually works very very well as a pug support spec for fractals (raids too, but that requires a weird comp setup that's a little clunkier than current META). Marshal stats allows you to do okay condition damage while upkeeping very good heals and providing 100% alacrity uptime (Ventari tablet & F4 on swap). It can even provide good might stacking, but you have to sacrifice some alacrity uptime or damage for it (Full DPS renegades are better for might stacking anyway since they'll be specced for Improved Kalla's Fervor). Assassin's presence exists too if you're willing to go without extra damage from corruption in favor of another party buff.

    Permanently Embiggened

  • Flauvious.6195Flauvious.6195 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cuon Alpinus.7645 said:

    @Flauvious.6195 said:
    Renegade works once you get used to it, does good dps and provides some kitten to the group. It just feels like garbage to play with it's clunky, boring utilities and completely random tacked on f skills.

    Why does one of them give alacrity? Is renegade supposed to be a support spec? You mean like herald is supposed to be a support spec, but also had to be everything else since core rev was never designed to work for anything?

    And yes the bow is terribly designed, use mace/axe and only pull out bow when you can't get into melee. It's like the bow was never tested at all. Every skills is horrendously slow, 7 shot becomes 2 shot if you are in any situation besides exactly 900 distance from your target and the ground is completely flat, wide open and there's absolutely nothing in the way, skills 2 and 4 miss if your target is like moving at all...

    Renegade was clearly thrown together last minute and the unique buff kallas fervor was stitched on just to force this mess into relevancy.

    Renegade actually works very very well as a pug support spec for fractals (raids too, but that requires a weird comp setup that's a little clunkier than current META). Marshal stats allows you to do okay condition damage while upkeeping very good heals and providing 100% alacrity uptime (Ventari tablet & F4 on swap). It can even provide good might stacking, but you have to sacrifice some alacrity uptime or damage for it (Full DPS renegades are better for might stacking anyway since they'll be specced for Improved Kalla's Fervor). Assassin's presence exists too if you're willing to go without extra damage from corruption in favor of another party buff.

    Yea it requires a weird set up because you need other people to fill the gaps in things a chrono provides but you dont lol. It's just inferior. They should have given alacrity to herald so a healing boon sharing herald could compete as a support and just made renegade straight condi. As it is now we have 2 psuedo support elite specs that don't work as well as druid or chrono because they also have to be the damage specs.

  • Jack Skywalker.5674Jack Skywalker.5674 Member ✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018

    @Cuon Alpinus.7645 said:

    @Flauvious.6195 said:
    Renegade works once you get used to it, does good dps and provides some kitten to the group. It just feels like garbage to play with it's clunky, boring utilities and completely random tacked on f skills.

    Why does one of them give alacrity? Is renegade supposed to be a support spec? You mean like herald is supposed to be a support spec, but also had to be everything else since core rev was never designed to work for anything?

    And yes the bow is terribly designed, use mace/axe and only pull out bow when you can't get into melee. It's like the bow was never tested at all. Every skills is horrendously slow, 7 shot becomes 2 shot if you are in any situation besides exactly 900 distance from your target and the ground is completely flat, wide open and there's absolutely nothing in the way, skills 2 and 4 miss if your target is like moving at all...

    Renegade was clearly thrown together last minute and the unique buff kallas fervor was stitched on just to force this mess into relevancy.

    Renegade actually works very very well as a pug support spec for fractals (raids too, but that requires a weird comp setup that's a little clunkier than current META). Marshal stats allows you to do okay condition damage while upkeeping very good heals and providing 100% alacrity uptime (Ventari tablet & F4 on swap). It can even provide good might stacking, but you have to sacrifice some alacrity uptime or damage for it (Full DPS renegades are better for might stacking anyway since they'll be specced for Improved Kalla's Fervor). Assassin's presence exists too if you're willing to go without extra damage from corruption in favor of another party buff.

    Why use sb when hammer has better range and has hammer 1+4 combo for heal on every auto + phase smash which synergizez with corruption (abysal chill), for instances where you can't use melee/ don't want to spam mace 2 and 3 which have as much range as all hammer skills?
    Also do all suport renegades use Righteous Rebel or can that trait be replaced by something else?

  • Flauvious.6195Flauvious.6195 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jack Skywalker.5674 said:

    @Cuon Alpinus.7645 said:

    @Flauvious.6195 said:
    Renegade works once you get used to it, does good dps and provides some kitten to the group. It just feels like garbage to play with it's clunky, boring utilities and completely random tacked on f skills.

    Why does one of them give alacrity? Is renegade supposed to be a support spec? You mean like herald is supposed to be a support spec, but also had to be everything else since core rev was never designed to work for anything?

    And yes the bow is terribly designed, use mace/axe and only pull out bow when you can't get into melee. It's like the bow was never tested at all. Every skills is horrendously slow, 7 shot becomes 2 shot if you are in any situation besides exactly 900 distance from your target and the ground is completely flat, wide open and there's absolutely nothing in the way, skills 2 and 4 miss if your target is like moving at all...

    Renegade was clearly thrown together last minute and the unique buff kallas fervor was stitched on just to force this mess into relevancy.

    Renegade actually works very very well as a pug support spec for fractals (raids too, but that requires a weird comp setup that's a little clunkier than current META). Marshal stats allows you to do okay condition damage while upkeeping very good heals and providing 100% alacrity uptime (Ventari tablet & F4 on swap). It can even provide good might stacking, but you have to sacrifice some alacrity uptime or damage for it (Full DPS renegades are better for might stacking anyway since they'll be specced for Improved Kalla's Fervor). Assassin's presence exists too if you're willing to go without extra damage from corruption in favor of another party buff.

    Why use sb when hammer has better range and has hammer 1+4 combo for heal on every auto + phase smash which synergizez with corruption (abysal chill), for instances where you can't use melee/ don't want to spam mace 2 and 3 which have as much range as all hammer skills?
    Also do all suport renegades use Righteous Rebel or can that trait be replaced by something else?

    Because hammer in a condi build does terrible damage.. the life leech from 1 and 4 is negligible, the chill on hammer 3 does not make up for having no actual condi on the skills. Sb damage is bad compared to other condi choices, but it's not so bad that you should take hammer instead.

    Do a test on the training golems in fractal lobby. I killed a vet golem with a hammer and short bow In full viper gear (except the hammer, I don't have a viper hammer.) Hammer test was autoing and spamming hammer 2 and 3 off cd (since you say 3 procs abyssal chill), and short bow test using all skills and always comboing 7 shot through the fire field created by sb 4.

    It took 1 min 42 seconds to kill the golem using hammer.
    And 32 seconds with the sb...

    Regardless you're going to be camping mace/axe the vast majority of the time anyway.

  • You simply take the hammer so you can deal damage from a safer distance. Unless it got secretly patched out, hammer 3 should proc abysal chill and give you an evade frame during the casting time. Yeah the life leech is negligible,but it's there, it's cheap to use.

    As far as ranged option goes, yes shortbow does more condi damage and maybe some breakbar damage+burning with SB 5,but that's about it. As you clearly stated SB 2,3,&4 are utter garbage....so our comparison for Revenant's ranged options boil down to 1 weapon that deals less condi damage,but has 4 weapon skills that can prove to be usefull and a bigger range vs 1 weapon whose auto attack does better damage on auto attacks, has a smaller range and if I recall corectly SB 5 does some breakbar damage+burning...... this is basicaly a power vs utility argument.