Elitism - Mass Discussion Thread

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@"TexZero.7910" lol I'm definitely not misunderstanding the point of a thread that I created myself. Also, please go GOOGLE the definition of the words "elitist" "elitism". Pretty sure that'll self-end your argument on the definition of term.

@"Faaris.8013" The definition of the term "elitist" literally sets the benchmark for what is elitist.

[TexZero.7910]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"TexZero.7910" lol I'm definitely not misunderstanding the point of a thread that I created myself. Also, please go GOOGLE the definition of the words "elitist" "elitism". Pretty sure that'll self-end your argument on the definition of term.

@"Faaris.8013" The definition of the term "elitist" literally sets the benchmark for what is elitist.

No its pretty clear you missed the point. I'm sorry you dont understand it because your fixated on just being right at all cost.

Here let me help you make your case without using loaded and incorrect language.

Hey guys, fractals play differently than raids so please chill when it comes to moderating who joins your groups. See how that's different than coming out with loaded language and presuming that everyone who uses "Raid bulds" in fractals is an elitist ?Additionally, you've managed to not only confuse an elitist with toxicity. You can have one without the other and i know that's somehow hard for you to understand because without it your entire premise falls flat and your rallying cry doesnt gin up the attention you're seeking.

[toxianguardian.4850]

Yeah my fractal experience certainly has changed over the years. I do acknowledge there were groups that formed specifically for certain builds, but for the most part i dont recall it being this specific. You might want a mes or war for buffs but the rest was whatever.

It felt a heck of a lot less distressing than it is now, needing excessively gimping traits and armor choices to match the dps spreadsheets someone cooked up.

Also UNLIKE in the past where there were no dps apps telling people your dps and you could run support and carry the group - potentially looking like a hero when your team wiped but you didn't - pushing the boss to die - , instead they will kick and call me out on 'crappy DPS' , because im doing 17k dps on my war main. >! (WTF ya'll doing with war BTW ANET?! )

So now i'm forced to run stats i dont like, relying on teammates that may or may not be up to par, etc.

And yes, I can start my own groups. I can wait for an extra 10 minutes, and watch it fill up with people with 5 mastery levels or little knowledge of the encounter and class mechanics. Wasting more time.

Because we can't have it both ways. You go with the flock and as long as you play by their rules you'll have decent chances at quick and efficient dailies, because they have worked out a more efficient way of winning. They tend to know whats going on, a good bit moreso than pugs you will get as a casual lfg.

But if they don't, you will wipe due to a healer not healing you, and for me being in this extreme dps role, i am unable to self heal enough, i rely on you to be good.

Again, it's not a BAD system. I understand the logic of why people are mini raiding fractals with super efficient builds. it works.I just liked the old way better, even though you might end up having to restart for any of the problems this Meta eliminates or reduces.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@"TexZero.7910"

[CptAurellian.9537]

Fascinating thread. It's always amazing how such a question can blow up like an atomic mushroom.

I've been there since BWE1 and ever since the experimenting period after release, little has changed. We had the different dungeon metas (4 warrs + mes, their replacement by eles and so on), we had past fractal metas, now we have chrono+drood+warr+2X. All the time, we've also had enough groups who don't care for their composition and they worked (and work), too.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Elitism is nothing more than having a specific standard and making decisions based on it because you think that it will obtain superior results. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you're upfront about your preferences (and prepared to take longer to fill an LFG).

---

I'm definitely not misunderstanding the point of a thread that I created myself.Starting a thread doesn't mean one has a monopoly on understanding the underlying issues. The very title is a misunderstanding: there might be elitism in raids, but it's not something specific and it certainly can't transfer from raids to fractals. Any type of content has the potential to be speedcleared and there are always efficient and less efficient ways to complete it. At the very least, cancelling or not cancelling cutscenes is an optimization choice that all of us make, regardless of build, comp, or skill.

Also, please go GOOGLE the definition of the words "elitist" "elitism". Pretty sure that'll self-end your argument on the definition of term.Pretty sure that it won't, because there are different sorts of elitism. You want to use the term solely to indicate people who think they are more skilled rejecting from their group folks that the originals think are less skilled. And that's a correct usage.

However, it's also correct to use the term for a group that insists that only they can decide on the proper way to run something. For example, there's a group of folks who insist that executive-appointed jobs in government be filled by those with experience & education and another group who insists that outsiders and self-taught individuals are the right choice.

It's common for people to say that the first is elitist, but it's equally valid to use the term to refer to the second type, too. Both cases involve using a benchmark for rejecting applicants, even as supporters of each philosophy tell us they have good reason for it.

The definition of the term "elitist" literally sets the benchmark for what is elitist.Yes, and insisting that there's only one proper way to LFG crosses that line, whether it's insisting that players run a specific comp or insisting that people accept any build/prof combination.

---

The fatal flaw in the original post is the assumption that there's something wrong with having standards for one's LFG. It's perfectly reasonable to be unhappy that LFG has a lot of groups looking for a specific comp that doesn't fit our personal play preferences, but that doesn't mean that there's anything the matter with doing so.

There's nothing wrong with being elitist. After all, if your child is falsely accused of committing a crime, are you really going to choose any lawyer but the most successful you can afford? You'd want the best, not the well-meaning, earnest, and sympathetic kid who finally passed the bar on their 4th try.

And there's nothing wrong with having bad standards either. If people want to insist on using a comp of "one healer, one control, one tank, two DPS" for fractals, that's their choice, even if someone could somehow prove that it isn't likely to be as efficient as not specifying a comp or a different comp.

The problem is when people are jerks about their preferences. And that goes both for people who are rude about kicking and for people who join without paying attention to their LFG.

---

tl;dr elitist just means insisting on a specific standard because you think it's superior; there's nothing wrong with it.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Ok

1. Elitism is an actual word that has an actual definition. Refer to the youtube video that I posted.
2. Starting a thread with an opening statement literally is "the topic of the thread" which is about Raid Elitism "refer to the video" seeping into Fractals, which is true.
3. There are not different types of Elitism. It doesn't matter how you apply your Elitism, Elitism is Elitism. Elitism is an actual word with a definition. An NBA team's recruitment, hate or supremacist groups, The Illuminati, these all demonstrate Elitism. Understand how to correctly use the term.
4. I did not say that there was anything wrong with having standards for an LFG. I made a broad statement that Raid Elitism, was slowing down the process of completing T4 dailies, in my experience. If you felt that I was saying something was wrong with that, you might want to GOOGLE the term: Psychological Projection. I would also like to point out, that I used the term "elitism" correctly. Which is something that everyone else in this thread seems to misunderstand the proper usage of. It is not a slang or insult and it isn't something to be debated "what does it mean is it an opinion?" No, it is an actual word with a real definition.
5. Never said there was anything wrong with being elitist. But I did say that it is unnecessary in T4 daily fractals.

The biggest misunderstanding that I see in this thread, is that people seem to see the term "Elitist" or players showing "Elitism" as some kind of insult. These players come in here and post responses to my OP statement as if I have insulted them directly and then try to toss disclaimer after disclaimer as to how the Raid Elitism is not Raid Elitism, when that behavior is in fact, the very definition of Elitism. I did not insult anyone in the OP statement. Calm down, go back and reread it. I simply used the term "Elitism" correctly in describing what was happening.

[TexZero.7910]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

2. Starting a thread with an opening statement literally is "the topic of the thread" which is about Raid Elitism "refer to the video" seeping into Fractals, which is true.

You're wrong here. This is what you don't or seemingly wont get/accept.

You're cherry picking worst case scenario's where-in an individual was toxic as a premise to push elitism being somehow a negative thing.By your own admission you'd create/join groups with and without standards, does doing so now make you an elitist ? No, it just means you have your own preferences for moderated groups and you'd want others to respect that. You cannot reasonable say your methods are better than theirs when its the same.

You also presuppose that people who moderate are in-fact elitist for using certain builds. That's not the case at all.You can use any build and have an elitist mindset just as you can use a "Raid/Fractal" build and be the most chill guy in the room.

What you actually have an issue with is jerks, not elitism. To not acknowledge that is really odd considering your own OP admitted to leaving said jerk in the dust and doing just fine without him.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

How about if we drop the use of the word elitist, because it's getting in the way of the point the OP was trying to make. Then the OP's post becomes:

Each day, there are more and more LFGs posted with descriptions such as: "Need Chrono - Need Heal Druid". These LFGs are in attempts to form 5 man raid meta teams, for fractals.

I assume this is happening because of these reasons:Why are so many players only running raid builds nowadays? Well it may be due to these reasons:

If a group was running 99 and 100 CMs, I get it. It's nice to use the rehearsed raid meta and it does work well in CMs. But for general T4 daily completion, the expectation of pulling raid meta team comps is beginning to cause very unnecessary problems:

I wanted to write this thread because of something I watched happen, earlier today. ...Needless to say, that guy was being ridiculous. But what is important to point out is how his overly elitist attitude was actually making him waste his own time.

Fractals are not raids.

The OP says "they get it" that using a specific comp works well in CMs, so why doesn't it make sense that some people might want to run a specific comp for other fractals, too? Sure, it's probably overkill. But shouldn't that be up to the party to decide, not the rest of us?

The OP further draws conclusions from a single, negative experience with someone who was rude. It seems more likely that player could have been a jerk in any setting, not just in a fractal; the issue of build/comp is a red herring.

Specific comps might or might not be useful to some people in fractals. That isn't an issue by itself. There's only a problem if people join a comp-request group intending to do something else or comp-minded person joins a more casual group, intending to make it comp-specific. That's a communication problem, not a comp problem.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

My good friend, you have still failed to notice the multiple posts I have made, pointing out that my discussion was about the time efficiency of Raid Meta vs. General Fractal Meta. There is not a single aspect of my original discussion that had anything to do with discussing the term "Elitism" or it's definition or if it was fair or unfair to refer to something as "Elitist". Furthermore, your posts indicate that you have not GOOGLED the term "Elitism" on your own accord and certainly did not watch the youtube video that I posted, to explain it to you. If you did and still did not notice how accurate my usage of the term was, you are either:

• (A) Hard headed or
• (B) Trolling

Due to the inevitable answer being one of the above two, this will be my last response to you.

[Cuon Alpinus.7645]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:My good friend, you have still failed to notice the multiple posts I have made, pointing out that my discussion was about the time efficiency of Raid Meta vs. General Fractal Meta. There is not a single aspect of my original discussion that had anything to do with discussing the term "Elitism" or it's definition or if it was fair or unfair to refer to something as "Elitist". Furthermore, your posts indicate that you have not GOOGLED the term "Elitism" on your own accord and certainly did not watch the youtube video that I posted, to explain it to you. If you did and still did not notice how accurate my usage of the term was, you are either:

• (A) Hard headed or
• (B) Trolling

Due to the inevitable answer being one of the above two, this will be my last response to you.

I fail to see how it's not related when you use the word in the title of your own damn thread. The reason people argue semantics is because it helps root out misunderstanding so that everyone is on the same page. Your arguments are of an entirely subjective and anecdotal nature, which only makes the need to do this even greater to allow for proper discussion.

Merely dismissing others with petty insults while they are trying to explain differences between various concepts makes you look ignorant. Your thread title was needlessly inflammatory, and the personal experience you provide just makes it sound like you're complaining in the same fashion.

[Seera.5916]

There are good elitists and bad elitists and there are good casuals and bad casuals.

The good ones respect LFG's. The bad ones join any group and expect the group to bend to their desires.

There were groups back when it was just dungeons that wanted X AP points because that totally was a measure of player skill. Highly selective LFG's have always existed for group content. This isn't something new.

The longer content is out the more % of groups will be the highly selective variety.

Here's why:

• The casual players have mostly all gotten what they need from the content. These are the players that typically don't care about the composition.
• The players still doing it have already done it 100 times or more and the newness has worn off and now they just want to get through the content and not spend forever doing it.

The numbers will only steadily increase, but it appears to climb faster due to the number of casuals who stop playing the content due to getting what they wanted out of it already.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Cuon Alpinus.7645 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:My good friend, you have still failed to notice the multiple posts I have made, pointing out that my discussion was about the time efficiency of Raid Meta vs. General Fractal Meta. There is not a single aspect of my original discussion that had anything to do with discussing the term "Elitism" or it's definition or if it was fair or unfair to refer to something as "Elitist". Furthermore, your posts indicate that you have not GOOGLED the term "Elitism" on your own accord and certainly did not watch the youtube video that I posted, to explain it to you. If you did and still did not notice how accurate my usage of the term was, you are either:

• (A) Hard headed or
• (B) Trolling

Due to the inevitable answer being one of the above two, this will be my last response to you.

I fail to see how it's not related when you use the word in the title of your own kitten thread. The reason people argue semantics is because it helps root out misunderstanding so that everyone is on the same page. Your arguments are of an entirely subjective and anecdotal nature, which only makes the need to do this even greater to allow for proper discussion.

Merely dismissing others with petty insults while they are trying to explain differences between various concepts makes you look ignorant. Your thread title was needlessly inflammatory, and the personal experience you provide just makes it sound like you're complaining in the same fashion.

The misunderstanding is the correct usage of the word Elitism. One cannot demonstrate the very definition of the term Elitism and then claim to not be an Elitist or claim that one should not use the term Elitism to describe their behavior. That's like getting enraged, walking around your house and furiously breaking random objects, and when someone asks you: "are you mad?" you say "no!" and actually believe that the people watching you have no right to define your behavior as being angry. Furthermore, it is not my fault or the fault of the OP post, that you are so upset about the usage of the word Elitism. Which mind you, is not an insult, slang, debatable definition or word that needs to be filtered in this forum.

If you are so mad about it, that is something you need to figure out for yourself. Arguing with me isn't going to change anything. I have already:

• Pointed out the purpose of the OP post, which was pointing out that Raid Elitism has been slowing down T4 daily completions in my experience.
• Pointed out the misunderstanding, which is players thinking I have insulted a demographic of players by calling them elitist which in all honesty, I was just using the proper term to describe the behavior. If they don't want to be called Elitist, then stop demonstrating the very definition of Elitism. It isn't my fault that they feel that word is an insult. If they feel it is so insulting and get so defense, maybe they should be asking themselves why instead of arguing with me.
• Pointed out the true definition of the term "Elitism" which is something you cannot argue about.

The correct word to describe the behavior is Elitism and Elitism will be used to describe the behavior.Go figure why it was coined as a gamer term to begin with.

[Seera.5916]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Cuon Alpinus.7645 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:My good friend, you have still failed to notice the multiple posts I have made, pointing out that my discussion was about the time efficiency of Raid Meta vs. General Fractal Meta. There is not a single aspect of my original discussion that had anything to do with discussing the term "Elitism" or it's definition or if it was fair or unfair to refer to something as "Elitist". Furthermore, your posts indicate that you have not GOOGLED the term "Elitism" on your own accord and certainly did not watch the youtube video that I posted, to explain it to you. If you did and still did not notice how accurate my usage of the term was, you are either:

• (A) Hard headed or
• (B) Trolling

Due to the inevitable answer being one of the above two, this will be my last response to you.

I fail to see how it's not related when you use the word in the title of your own kitten thread. The reason people argue semantics is because it helps root out misunderstanding so that everyone is on the same page. Your arguments are of an entirely subjective and anecdotal nature, which only makes the need to do this even greater to allow for proper discussion.

Merely dismissing others with petty insults while they are trying to explain differences between various concepts makes you look ignorant. Your thread title was needlessly inflammatory, and the personal experience you provide just makes it sound like you're complaining in the same fashion.

The misunderstanding is the correct usage of the word Elitism. One cannot demonstrate the very definition of the term Elitism and then claim to not be an Elitist or claim that one should not use the term Elitism to describe their behavior. That's like getting enraged, walking around your house and furiously breaking random objects, and when someone asks you: "are you mad?" you say "no!" and actually believe that the people watching you have no right to define your behavior as being angry. Furthermore, it is not my fault or the fault of the OP post, that you are so upset about the usage of the word Elitism. Which mind you, is not an insult, slang, debatable definition or word that needs to be filtered in this forum.

If you are so mad about it. You should figure out why.

Elitism isn't bad in and of itself, though, if you consider the players who make LFG's asking for specific builds and requirements to be the actions of an elitist.

Some people only have a limited amount of time to play and don't have time for repeating parts of fractals due to wipes are willing to spend the extra 5 minutes finding a group than risk the extra 30 minutes on a harder fractal. So they make a group to find others who value efficiency to play with. And the only thing that they can really measure on a player's skill is their build. They can't judge whether or not a player knows the mechanics of a specific fractal or raid or dungeon by anything. The best measure is their build and their DPS. They don't try to push their values onto others and respect the LFG's of casuals who don't mind and have the time to deal with potentially wiping several times or taking a long time to get through a specific fight.

The bad elitists are the ones that just go into any LFG and try to dictate how things should go, even if it's an anything goes casual group.

The bad elitists are the minority, but they pop into parties just forming or getting new members frequently because they have a high chance of getting kicked or rage quitting from the groups they are in and are too lazy to make their own group. So they can appear to be the majority.

As for why people are asking for raid meta, it's likely because they don't want to have to deal with multiple build sets since there isn't a build saver and a raid build may lack certain features that other parts of a raid group would have. Like healing or DPS or CC. Plus, ANet has said multiple times that the higher tier fractals, especially the CM's, are supposed to serve as training grounds for raids. So it makes sense to treat fractals as raids since the raid meta is very much capable of being successful at completing fractals at not a huge difference in speed from the fractal meta if it actually differs.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Nothing wrong with being an elitist and getting shit done. At this point my argument only lies with the people who are coming in here and telling me that I shouldn't describe Elitist behavior by definition, as Elitism. That is such North American styled butt-hurt entitlement that it disgusts me.

And hey, I live in North America.

[narcx.3570]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Raid Elitism has been slowly but surely seeping into fractals for quite some time now. Each day, there are more and more LFGs posted with descriptions such as: "Need Chrono - Need Heal Druid". These LFGs are in attempts to form 5 man raid meta teams, for fractals. I assume this is happening because of these reasons:

• Players can't or don't want to afford multiple setups on most characters. For the purpose of saving resources, they gear for raids because it is the most difficult content.
• Raid builds are designed to support each other and all DPS oriented raid builds require a healing druid. They have to bring in that healing druid.
• Since the raid DPS and heal druid are present, players figure they may as well LFG for the chrono.

My question is: Why are so many players only running raid builds nowadays? Well it may be due to these reasons:

• Players just copy/paste whatever they see on the current meta-build websites they visit.
• Players learn only that one build that they copy/paste from a meta-build website.
• Players believe that one build is the end all be all and any deviation from that listed build would mean they are a bad player..
• Players fail to understand that raid builds are designed for 10 man teams vs. raid AI single target bosses and that fractal AI and mobs function completely differently.

If a group was running 99 and 100 CMs, I get it. It's nice to use the rehearsed raid meta and it does work well in CMs. But for general T4 daily completion, the expectation of pulling raid meta team comps is beginning to cause very unnecessary problems:

• People being way too picky while forming teams before actually starting the fractal. T4s are something that can be completed in about 30 minutes on average if people who know what they are doing just group up and go do it. There is no reason to tag an extra 10 -20 minute wait time to form a raid meta team.
• Groups full of raid DPSers who fail to pull a heal druid. They go in and are often unable to survive the random nature of fractal AI. It seems they fail to understand that having ultra high DPS means nothing if you can't stay alive long enough to use it. Frequently being in downstate is also a loss in DPS for the players who have to stop DPSing and go revive the downed player.
• Overly elitist attitude for a casual game mode that simply does not require raid elitism within a party to succeed. They'll kick & boot players because their ARCDPS tells them that a particular player isn't meeting raid standard DPS. Sometimes they kick & boot a player simply because his build was a deviant of a meta, regardless of the player's actual performance. The elitist attitude leads them to believe they are "making the party stronger" by booting out unidentified build structures. But ironically enough, the players they will rag on or boot from the party are often older fractal players who have adapted custom builds that might sacrifice 15% to 20% top DPS for the ability to carry bad groups in fractals. The kind of builds that are capable of solo'ing CM MAMA or finishing CM Ensolyss cap phase by itself if it has to, avoiding a boss fight reset and saving everyone time.

I wanted to write this thread because of something I watched happen, earlier today. There was this LFG for daily recommended fractals so I joined. The guy who made this LFG apparently felt he needed a raid heal druid and all raid metas to run his daily recommended fractals. There was 1 Berserker in the party who was using Heal Signet and the guy who created the LFG was throwing a fit over it. He tried to vote kick the Berserker but no one seconded the vote because well... it's just recommended and we really just wanted to get it done. The guy who created the LFG ended up leaving the party because the Berserker was "throwing off the group meta". We picked up a random 5th and completed the recommended fractals in a short amount of time. When I checked the LFG again for a T4 group to run with, that same guy who left our party was still posted in the LFG looking for an ultra meta group to run his daily recommended fractals with. Needless to say, that guy was being ridiculous. But what is important to point out is how his overly elitist attitude was actually making him waste his own time.

Fractals are not raids.Stop being raid elitists in fractals.~ There you have it. Someone needed to say it.

I'm torn on this... I've always been a proponent of "lulz, who cares? Play whatever you want, it's only fractals." But changes to the CM's and even some of the newer non-CM t4's reeeeeaaaaallly favor playing a zerker class... Like a lot. So I can see where some class elitism is starting to have good reason to fester its way into those.

Either way, anyone who cares about class compositions for t4's and ESPECIALLY their daily recs isn't very good at the game... But you know what? I guess that's fine too. You're allowed to be bad at the game, and if a perfect party composition can help carry their lack of skill or whatever, we should be cool with them using it to compensate for their own failings--as long as they're up front about it in LFG.

[Seera.5916]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Nothing wrong with being an elitist and getting kitten done. At this point my argument only lies with the people who are coming in here and telling me that I shouldn't describe Elitist behavior by definition as Elitism. That is such North American styled butt-hurt entitlement that it disgusts me.

And hey, I live in North America.

Because maybe they define elitist differently than you. Maybe they don't consider what you describe as elitist behavior. Maybe to them, their definition only allows for the bad elitist who pushes their values on everyone and doesn't respect LFG descriptions.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

That is probably true and I understand this. But that is the whole point why I posted a youtube link in an above post that accurately describes the actual definition and usage of the word "Elitism" so they can see that it is not a slang or insult, it is simply a word used to described a particular type of social behavior.

[Seera.5916]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:That is probably true and I understand this. But that is the whole point why I posted a youtube link in an above post that accurately describes the actual definition and usage of the word "Elitism" so they can see that it is not a slang or insult, it is simply a word used to described a particular type of social behavior.

I don't know about the others, but I didn't watch the video. I don't come to forums to watch videos. So if I didn't, others probably didn't either, including some of those who don't agree with your definition.

It's why you should always define any terms that can have multiple definitions when it pertains to a specific game or genre (especially words like casual, hard core, and elitist/elitism). Especially if you're trying to say that group of people are having a negative impact on the game.

[Eramonster.2718]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Nothing wrong with being an elitist and getting kitten done. At this point my argument only lies with the people who are coming in here and telling me that I shouldn't describe Elitist behavior by definition, as Elitism. That is such North American styled butt-hurt entitlement that it disgusts me.

And hey, I live in North America.

Elitism Happening in Fractals.Raid Elitism Happening in Fractals.

Raid was direct/indirectly pulled in, when used as benchmarking. Hence why there's a few of us (during the start at least) tried to seperate the context.

[Obtena.7952]

@Yasi.9065 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:[...]Well, not just optimized play, but the idea that optimized play is the only acceptable way of play that should be tolerated in the game. [...]

Theres more than enough non-meta lfg-searches up each hour of the day to proof you wrong on that one. So I really dont understand what you are so up in arms about. You got kicked for trying to force your wishes on a lfg group? Is that it? Sorry, but if you dont like the lfg description of a group, dont join it. Simple as that.

Or is it really that you want to get into a speedrun but dont want to bring the build/profession/training needed for it? I noticed thats the problem of about 90% of all those raging against "meta" in whichever game or gamecontent. What you have to realize at that point though, is that nobody wants to carry someone else in speedruns. Be it because of lack of skill or lack of proper build. Thats just not the concept of speedruns.

Or maybe you think its ludicrous how people that dont even know the basics of speedruns try to emulate them by just bringing the same elite speccs? Well, yeah. It is ludicrous. However, if they want to do that... then let them. I usually can spot them easy enough and if its not a real speedrun group, I just leave on first boss. Again, dont see the point of being so aggressive about it.

LAWLWUT? I never got kicked. You really don't understand what I'm so up in arms about because I'm not up in arms; clearly you took that statement out of context.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Seera.5916 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:That is probably true and I understand this. But that is the whole point why I posted a youtube link in an above post that accurately describes the actual definition and usage of the word "Elitism" so they can see that it is not a slang or insult, it is simply a word used to described a particular type of social behavior.

I don't know about the others, but I didn't watch the video. I don't come to forums to watch videos. So if I didn't, others probably didn't either, including some of those who don't agree with your definition.

It's why you should always define any terms that can have multiple definitions when it pertains to a specific game or genre (especially words like casual, hard core, and elitist/elitism). Especially if you're trying to say that group of people are having a negative impact on the game.

That's fine but with all due respect, these people should be taking the time to watch that video and learn about the correct usage of the word "Elitism" if they want to start arguments about the usage of the actual word "Elitism". Not doing so and claiming that they have the right to believe the word means whatever they want is in itself overly arrogant and completely ridiculous to the point that it can't be taken seriously.

GOOGLE: "Apathy" "Ignorance"

[Seera.5916]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Seera.5916 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:That is probably true and I understand this. But that is the whole point why I posted a youtube link in an above post that accurately describes the actual definition and usage of the word "Elitism" so they can see that it is not a slang or insult, it is simply a word used to described a particular type of social behavior.

I don't know about the others, but I didn't watch the video. I don't come to forums to watch videos. So if I didn't, others probably didn't either, including some of those who don't agree with your definition.

It's why you should always define any terms that can have multiple definitions when it pertains to a specific game or genre (especially words like casual, hard core, and elitist/elitism). Especially if you're trying to say that group of people are having a negative impact on the game.

That's fine but with all due respect, these people should be taking the time to watch that video and learn about the correct usage of the word "Elitism" if they want to start arguments about the usage of the actual word "Elitism". Not doing so and claiming that they have the right to believe the word means whatever they want is in itself overly arrogant and completely ridiculous to the point that it can't be taken seriously.

GOOGLE: "Apathy" "Ignorance"

There is no right or wrong definition of the word elitism when it comes to MMO's and GW2. Because different people have different connotations of the word elite.

The social elite is stereotypically the class of people who look down at the lower classes of people. And if people use that as their basis for elitism, then it's understandable that they would view elitists in game with a negative light. And their definition is a valid definition. It's just different than yours.

And I don't need to google the definition of words I already know the definition of. Thank you for assuming I didn't know them.

[Taltevus.3289]

It would bring me no greater joy than to see fractals go the way of raids and dungeons. Just so ArenaNet would actually do something but they don't.It's a culture in Gw2 that went unchecked...For a very long time. Now players feel entitled to be elitist. But like I said no greater joy.

[Seera.5916]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Well you didn't know the definition of the term Elite and you're refusing to learn it. lol

So what you're telling me is that if I'm at work or at the beach playing volleyball and someone tries to communicate to me, I have the right to just scream some random words at them like: "CAKE MONSTER glegagableh SHREEEEKT" and that it would be acceptable communication for me to expect them to be ok with my own individual perception of what I meant by that.

Imagine if everyone just started doing that and things became without definition within a language. You just might have communication errors such as in this thread, with people arguing for a 100 posts about the kitten definition of the world "elitism". That makes me wonder if it would be a good idea for people to adhere to some stable defined purpose of a word and its original meaning.

lol

GOOGLE: "Educated"

I know what the word elite means. I just stated that in an MMO and in GW2, people can have different definitions of what it means to be elite and that none of them are wrong. As such, one should clearly define who they are talking about when they use the terms that can have various meanings in an MMO like elite, casual, and hard core. Obviously, not all terms have multiple meanings. So how about we stop using the ridiculous hyperbole? It ruins any argument you might have.

And again, I know what educated means. Please stop assuming what words I do and do not know.

And by the way, words evolve over time. The word gay used to just mean happy and not also referring to a male who happens to be attracted to males.