Spoilers Lw S4 - Warning for All Those Who are Light Sensitive - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Spoilers Lw S4 - Warning for All Those Who are Light Sensitive

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  • This is a loaded post op, and you know it. If someone disagrees with you, they are an kitten. If someone agrees with you, they're a hero.
    Should the game be adjusted for every minority persons that have visual ailments? Color blind? Motion sickness? Farsighted? Being blind in general?
    They give you a warning, for a reason. Yeah, it sucks. You're either going to have to adapt or move on to different games.

    P.s. I've stopped playing most first person shooters do to motion sickness.

    Vinnorin Almar, Firebrand of Maguuma.
    I Crit Under Pressure is recruiting, message me for an invite ^_^

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nick Lentz.6982 said:
    They give you a warning, for a reason. Yeah, it sucks. You're either going to have to adapt or move on to different games.

    As I have pointed out those warnings are overused, if anything on a computer thinks they even MIGHT want to do something flashy they put it on as a CYA legal move .... which means nobody that might be affected pays attention to them because 99% of the time it is just empty words. As has also been pointed out in other posts people with epilepsy are triggered by different things and have widely varying tolerance levels.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2017

    @Aerlen.5326 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    While I emphatize.. emphasize.. have empathy with the people who are prone to seizures, I do also believe theres a small bubble of common sense, namely that just like a legless person should reconsider doing a marathon (not that they can’t), a seizure prone person should always consider playing a video game since flashy lights are quite often a medium of animation, especially if it involves magic.

    Not when 3 years of said game contained no such triggers and they are not common-place. Trust me, if during Karka Free To Play Weekend in 2012 I would have seen content like the first LW S4 episode - I would not have bought the game. I would have gone back to WoW and Second Life and left GW2 for people who like their eyeballs melted. I do not continue to play things that show me from the start they have Michael Bay disease.

    I'm also going to say this again since people miss it - the trigger for me and others is extremely specific. It's a specific speed, frequency, and overabundance of flashing/strobing/exploding lights. So while someone say using 80 tomes of knowledge and doing the level up flash is going to do absolutely nothing, ten rapidly flashing lightning strikes with ten AoE circles plus background pulsing and strobing in the span of a minute is going to set it off every time. It's not every effect. It's specific ones. Specific ones that are rarely used EXCEPT in story instances. As a gamer of almost 40 years, I can only name maybe 8 games I've played that did this out of 300+. Guild Wars 2 is one of them, most of the others are old 80's arcade games and that Polybius rom (which was intended to do that - it's Polybius. Seriously. The whole urban legend is about a game making people sick from visuals). A better example would be to tell someone who gets sick if they see Chubacabra to never watch television because one might unexpectedly pop up and they can't blame the media for using it because television is a medium of fantasy. How many TV shows use a Chubacabra to warrant someone needing to avoid all media? And what about those without health issues who have gotten ill or gotten a headache from this instance? I mean.. should they have expected eye melting effects by virtue of this being a video game? This is like blaming the Japanese kids that got sick from Electric Solider Porygon and telling it was their fault for watching a cartoon (That one makes the end of Stranger Things look tame BTW, I survived like 2 seconds and noped out).

    It's too much. It's too extreme. Cut it out or provide a slider. That's it. Issue solved. Slider means everyone is super happy, everyone wins. Cutting down on SE temporarily while they develop a slider works too. I understand my anger in the first post was extreme - no I don't want everyone deprived of the effects they like. I just want the choice to skip them.

    I can say i wouldnt mind a slider for flashy animations since my laptop can’t handle it all..
    Ill at least concede that gw2 has gotten flashier over the years, but i think its to blame the fact that were using more magic, the orr campaign was lots of steel on undead flesh, come the bloodstone crumble its all magic explosions, branded lightning storms and balthazar fire storms.
    Personally i like the magic-dry world of around the Orr campaign a little more. It might have something to do with the transit of directors, but i cant guarantee that

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • I repeat: Asking for a slider or a click box to opt out of those over-the-top graphic effects, would not hurt anyone if made available for those who want it. After all, most games already have color blind options so why not add this into that category as well?

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    We are aware of this concern, and I believe you will see it addressed soon.

    Yay!!!! Even us epileptics that are not photosensitive avoid over-the-top effects because we know we just may not have seen too many effects at once before.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Zeivu.3615Zeivu.3615 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2017

    I am curious what the slider would really do mechanically. How would you turn it down without removing it entirely? Reducing stuff to basic shapes can still trigger seizures if they are fast and bright enough.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zeivu.3615 said:
    I am curious what the slider would really do mechanically. How would you turn it down without removing it entirely? Reducing stuff to basic shapes can still trigger seizures if they are fast and bright enough.

    The ability to turn off sprites would solve a lot. It would not be a 100% solution, but the ability to turn them off also has the plus of controlling locally generated lag.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2017

    I am pretty light sensitive (I always play in darkened room because I cant stand daylight), but I noticed no issue with this instance to be honest. The end of the thaumanova fractal is so much worse, always makes me tab out when the cutscene happens.

  • Ceridwen.6703Ceridwen.6703 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2017

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    I am pretty light sensitive (I always play in darkened room because I cant stand daylight), but I noticed no issue with this instance to be honest. The end of the thaumanova fractal is so much worse, always makes me tab out when the cutscene happens.

    Stimuli can and will have different results for each of us.

    Sunlight is also out to get me, but I've always had to play games in a very well lit room. I hate overhead lights, so I use a desk lamp, other lamps about the room, and even fairy lights help. If I played in a darkened room, I'd be hospitalised in a jiffy. =)

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    We are aware of this concern, and I believe you will see it addressed soon.

    Thank you!! It's heartening to know you guys are doing something, and it's greatly appreciated. <3

    "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Steve R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."

  • Aerlen.5326Aerlen.5326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    We are aware of this concern, and I believe you will see it addressed soon.

    Holy kitten.

    I'll be honest, after months of trying to get people to be aware of this, I didn't expect an actual response. I expected.. well.. the internet to be the internet and tons of "git gud" (and some people did that - like seriously? The idea of an effects slider or toning down offends you this much?).

    So I want to seriously thank Arenanet. I was shocked when I saw something in the patch notes about tweaking the frequency of the lightning. It might not be much but that is an excellent start. Thank you for listening.

    @Ceridwen.6703 said:
    Again, I simply ask Anet to consider players with disabilities. How about doing some kind of private contact form where we can tell you how you could make your game more accessible for us? We'd love to help you help us!

    I'm on-board for this too.

  • Nick Lentz.6982Nick Lentz.6982 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2017

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Nick Lentz.6982 said:
    They give you a warning, for a reason. Yeah, it sucks. You're either going to have to adapt or move on to different games.

    As I have pointed out those warnings are overused, if anything on a computer thinks they even MIGHT want to do something flashy they put it on as a CYA legal move .... which means nobody that might be affected pays attention to them because 99% of the time it is just empty words. As has also been pointed out in other posts people with epilepsy are triggered by different things and have widely varying tolerance levels.

    so adapt or move on?
    Terms of service are useless too, but here we are nitpicking.
    Its there to keep kitten who ruin it for everybody, from suing. They are not going to cater to a minority of people and say what specifically is the cause or change the game.
    You KNOW Its there.
    you KNOW to watch for it.

    Vinnorin Almar, Firebrand of Maguuma.
    I Crit Under Pressure is recruiting, message me for an invite ^_^

  • ArenaNet. I like the bright, flashy lights. Don't ruin my experience because these guys are crying about it.

    Thanks.

  • Lyndina.7984Lyndina.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    I dont have the problems with flashing lights and stuff as the autor of this thread, i have to agree. It really is too "colorful and flashy". You cant look anywhere on your screen which doesnt explode or flashes in every color of the rainbow. Its too much, even if you dont have problems with it. The last mission of pof also, most people in my guild thought they play a michael bay movie.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To those who are saying 'it is in the legal fine print' or 'git gud':

    You have never ONCE complained or suggested an improvement when a company did the same, whether or not it was anet? Whether voiced or not, you did not even think 'this would be better if they did xyz'? Really? No being annoyed when a cable company gave you a 4+ hour window to hook up your internet (after all, they are upfront about it)?

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • @Chickenooble.5014 said:
    ArenaNet. I like the bright, flashy lights. Don't ruin my experience because these guys are crying about it.

    Thanks.

    If it is a setting you can let "flashy lights" enabled, while other people with problem could disable it. Everyone should be happy then.

  • @Valkyrie.1794 said:
    Most of the people "crying" about it are individuals with MEDICAL reasons it bothers them.

    I don't wanna be a buzzkill, but if someone's having medical issues because of something they engage in then maybe simply don't do it?! If you're allergic to peanuts you're probably not going to eat a snickers and then complain about it containing peanuts, right?

    I'd welcome an option to decrease the flashiness of the game for people who have issues because of it and I feel for them ... but wouldn't hurt to tone down the entitlement.

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I can't recommend WvW because of similar issues. #ParticleBalance

    D:

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • Klowdy.3126Klowdy.3126 Member ✭✭✭

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Haishao.6851 said:
    They have warning about seizure, like every video games.

    That is CYA legalish boilerplate put on every game, whether it is needed or not. I think even sims has it but I would need to check. The epilepsy community ignores those warnings because they are so overused.

    I specialize in accessibility on web sites. I wonder why we even bother to HAVE 508, WCAG, and associated technologies? I mean, I can just slap a disclaimer on the site, right? Yeah, that is equal accessibility there .... games do not get a free pass. It is one thing if we are talking a key mechanic (like if the ONLY way to do something was because the player, and not someone else, heard something) but all the things listed would not suffer one jot if they did not trigger photosensitivity.

    As someone with epilepsy I know seizures caused by flashing lights are rare. Still though, I avoid flashing lights when I can because, well, why take the chance? Plus with this large a player population it will affect SOMEONE and I tend not to play russian roulette.

    I agree there should be a slider, but it is no one's fault but their own if people choose to ignore warnings. Overused or not, a warning is there to provide protection to absolutely anyone that may be affected.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The effects have been used exaggeratedly for quite some time, and it's only getting worse with each new content release. ANet does not listen to their playerbase when it comes to this issue. Sometimes less is more.

  • @Nick Lentz.6982 said:
    P.s. I've stopped playing most first person shooters do to motion sickness.

    Have you tried Sea-Bands?

  • Mikuchan.7261Mikuchan.7261 Member ✭✭✭

    Played the instances, liked them, flew griffon at high speed through them.
    Not an epileptic, not prone to seizures.
    I have absolutely nothing against adding options for the people who need it.
    But please don't remove my pretty effects, thank you.

  • juhani.5361juhani.5361 Member ✭✭✭

    Just tossing in a thumbs up for an option to toggle some of the effects off and my condolences to people who truly suffer from the visual overload.

    I don't have any medical or physical issues with the array of sparkles and glitter and kitten knows what else. But it's awful. In open world events, I constantly lose my mouse cursor with all the rainbow effects, little lights, giant swaths of black greatsword and sparkles flashing everywhere. I can't see boss telegraphs or figure out where to dodge half the time because both the player and boss light shows are too much.

    I just recently got my guardian to 80 and unlocked a full firebrand trait line. Guardian was bad enough with rainbows, but now I'm blue. Blue fire, blue jets of light, blue auras everywhere-- I get it. I'm blue. Can I turn it off, please? I'm sick of blinding myself. A toggle would be the perfect compromise between those who love their fireworks and those who can't take them.

  • @Cragga the Eighty Third.6015 said:

    @Nick Lentz.6982 said:
    P.s. I've stopped playing most first person shooters do to motion sickness.

    Have you tried Sea-Bands?

    I've always found those to be more of a placebo :p

    Vinnorin Almar, Firebrand of Maguuma.
    I Crit Under Pressure is recruiting, message me for an invite ^_^

  • hope fully it not be like back when they did the ele turn down and took away the fire ele balls . and so forth. hope they put a slider on it so those that have that problem get a good easy fix and yet not take something away from the whole game .

    doing so can turn away a whole lot of what is left of the games player base .

  • @Menadena.7482 said:
    That is CYA legalish boilerplate put on every game, whether it is needed or not. I think even sims has it but I would need to check. The epilepsy community ignores those warnings because they are so overused.

    Choosing to ignore a warning because "it doesn't happen often enough" isn't an excuse for you to act like its absolutely absurd when it finally does happen. There's a warning, you choose to ignore it and then when it happens you don't get to act like its everyone else's fault that you chose to do something you knew could potentially have consequences. So now we have to either tone down video games or waste resources on a super special "slider" for the minute fraction of people who shouldn't be looking at flashing lights to begin with. Next it will be that people with severe motor control disabilities can't respond to on screen action fast enough, so we'll have to dumb the game down again or spend resources on a "slider" again for that 1%. Repeat ad nauseam for every indivudal's personal "I can't do this because of x" until we're all just playing a game where you press space bar every 5 seconds to watch a black and white "you win" screen (with audio cues for the blind who also suddenly have a need to be catered to in complex mmos).

  • Cragga the Eighty Third.6015Cragga the Eighty Third.6015 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2018

    @Nick Lentz.6982 said:

    @Cragga the Eighty Third.6015 said:

    @Nick Lentz.6982 said:
    P.s. I've stopped playing most first person shooters do to motion sickness.

    Have you tried Sea-Bands?

    I've always found those to be more of a placebo :p

    All I know is, I used to get so motion-sick from playing 3D games I had to go lie down feeling nauseated for hours, so I gave them up. I couldn't resist a Steam/Macupdate deal on Mac KOTOR 2 and Lego Star Wars for $5 each, but told friends online how they were nearly impossible for me to play. Someone recommended Sea-Bands, and I found I could play those games with only mild headaches, as long as they were positioned correctly. Over time, the headaches even went away. Now I don't need them at all any more. They are cheap and worth a try! Anyway, if you are motion-sick from fake motion, why shouldn't a placebo be the cure?

  • Blur.3465Blur.3465 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree, sometimes it appears to be too much.
    I also noticed that 'brightness' in game is sometimes reaaaaally over the top.
    Like if you look at the white areas of the game it's almost impossible to look at them.
    The flashiness of skills and effects can get over the top too.
    I do not suffer from migraines nor anything, but it bothers me regardless.
    Guild Wars 1 had handled this better.

  • @Blur.3465 said:
    I agree, sometimes it appears to be too much.
    I also noticed that 'brightness' in game is sometimes reaaaaally over the top.
    Like if you look at the white areas of the game it's almost impossible to look at them.
    The flashiness of skills and effects can get over the top too.
    I do not suffer from migraines nor anything, but it bothers me regardless.
    Guild Wars 1 had handled this better.

    Except for the Monk Ray of Judgement skill, that was terrible ;) But nothing compared to The last episode, or others like The end fight of Crack in the ice. One big ray of Judgement 'like' cluster in different colors, not healty at all. My biggest fight is not the mechanics, but the abnormal use of flashy bright colored effect.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feothyr.6072 said:

    @Valkyrie.1794 said:
    Most of the people "crying" about it are individuals with MEDICAL reasons it bothers them.

    I don't wanna be a buzzkill, but if someone's having medical issues because of something they engage in then maybe simply don't do it?! If you're allergic to peanuts you're probably not going to eat a snickers and then complain about it containing peanuts, right?

    I'd welcome an option to decrease the flashiness of the game for people who have issues because of it and I feel for them ... but wouldn't hurt to tone down the entitlement.

    Say you had that peanut allergy and an activity you liked suddenly had peanuts everywhere which was peanut-free before? Would you silently walk away or speak up?

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Klowdy.3126 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Haishao.6851 said:
    They have warning about seizure, like every video games.

    That is CYA legalish boilerplate put on every game, whether it is needed or not. I think even sims has it but I would need to check. The epilepsy community ignores those warnings because they are so overused.

    I specialize in accessibility on web sites. I wonder why we even bother to HAVE 508, WCAG, and associated technologies? I mean, I can just slap a disclaimer on the site, right? Yeah, that is equal accessibility there .... games do not get a free pass. It is one thing if we are talking a key mechanic (like if the ONLY way to do something was because the player, and not someone else, heard something) but all the things listed would not suffer one jot if they did not trigger photosensitivity.

    As someone with epilepsy I know seizures caused by flashing lights are rare. Still though, I avoid flashing lights when I can because, well, why take the chance? Plus with this large a player population it will affect SOMEONE and I tend not to play russian roulette.

    I agree there should be a slider, but it is no one's fault but their own if people choose to ignore warnings. Overused or not, a warning is there to provide protection to absolutely anyone that may be affected.

    What are game players supposed to do? Stop playing ALL games? As to ignoring warnings, I doubt everyone on the planet has read every word of every TOS and license they have ever agreed to.

    Yes, a slider would work wonders here.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sevenDEADLY.5281 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    That is CYA legalish boilerplate put on every game, whether it is needed or not. I think even sims has it but I would need to check. The epilepsy community ignores those warnings because they are so overused.

    Choosing to ignore a warning because "it doesn't happen often enough" isn't an excuse for you to act like its absolutely absurd when it finally does happen. There's a warning, you choose to ignore it and then when it happens you don't get to act like its everyone else's fault that you chose to do something you knew could potentially have consequences. So now we have to either tone down video games or waste resources on a super special "slider" for the minute fraction of people who shouldn't be looking at flashing lights to begin with. Next it will be that people with severe motor control disabilities can't respond to on screen action fast enough, so we'll have to dumb the game down again or spend resources on a "slider" again for that 1%. Repeat ad nauseam for every indivudal's personal "I can't do this because of x" until we're all just playing a game where you press space bar every 5 seconds to watch a black and white "you win" screen (with audio cues for the blind who also suddenly have a need to be catered to in complex mmos).

    Actually, it is good design for things like warnings. If you overuse them people WILL ignore them.

    Say you had a walk light on a road cars never used. How long do you think it would take until people were jaywalking? One day some car goes down the road for some reason and hits someone. Yes, I can see the driver's lawyers saying there was a 'do not walk' sign but that does not excuse the fact that it was a de-facto pedestrian area there.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Mal.1670Mal.1670 Member ✭✭

    OP I hope you are also mentioning how your skill bar flashes when surfacing from water, leaving necromancer shroud, randomly when dismounting, etc. Story-based effects are a one-time only deal that you will find in virtually every game, and it's going to be better to just turn down the brightness. The biggest issue IMO are the intermittent annoying effects that happen all the time, as mentioned...

  • Mal.1670Mal.1670 Member ✭✭
    edited January 25, 2018

    The motion sickness in Confessor's End was really bad. On all other counts, I'd usually be very aware of these things yet I haven't noticed hardly any of the cases listed in OP. A graphics setting to tone down flashing and such would be awesome regardless, seriously it needs to include the skill bar flashing. Try diving, going to the surface, up on land, back down again, repeat. The flashing will get you BIG TIME. That is really freaking obnoxious, and there really should be a fix for that garbage.

    Please give us options to tone down user interface visual effects as well, in addition to story-related effects.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I know the push to tone down the screen noise a few years ago was seen by some as a negative experience. I do really believe that options allowing players to limit other players screen effects would be welcomed by many. That way if a player wants the full experience they can do so and if another wants to tone down the effects they can also. Picture something like limit effects to: No one, everyone, party, self.....

    There is a lot of screen flash in place currently. Take ToK, is there any reason that these should flash around the player? Anyone full leveling an 80 with these in public is just a bit abusive to those around them. And that just 1 instance. Mounts, any reason they have to strobe flash when summoned? Just something to think about with new design. Now any boss fight and .....

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
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  • miraude.2107miraude.2107 Member ✭✭✭

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:
    I know the push to tone down the screen noise a few years ago was seen by some as a negative experience. I do really believe that options allowing players to limit other players screen effects would be welcomed by many. That way if a player wants the full experience they can do so and if another wants to tone down the effects they can also. Picture something like limit effects to: No one, everyone, party, self.....

    There is a lot of screen flash in place currently. Take ToK, is there any reason that these should flash around the player? Anyone full leveling an 80 with these in public is just a bit abusive to those around them. And that just 1 instance. Mounts, any reason they have to strobe flash when summoned? Just something to think about with new design. Now any boss fight and .....

    This. In WoW, you can do this kitten.

    So I'm curious as to whether or not you can even do this in GW2.

  • Klowdy.3126Klowdy.3126 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2018

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @sevenDEADLY.5281 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    That is CYA legalish boilerplate put on every game, whether it is needed or not. I think even sims has it but I would need to check. The epilepsy community ignores those warnings because they are so overused.

    Choosing to ignore a warning because "it doesn't happen often enough" isn't an excuse for you to act like its absolutely absurd when it finally does happen. There's a warning, you choose to ignore it and then when it happens you don't get to act like its everyone else's fault that you chose to do something you knew could potentially have consequences. So now we have to either tone down video games or waste resources on a super special "slider" for the minute fraction of people who shouldn't be looking at flashing lights to begin with. Next it will be that people with severe motor control disabilities can't respond to on screen action fast enough, so we'll have to dumb the game down again or spend resources on a "slider" again for that 1%. Repeat ad nauseam for every indivudal's personal "I can't do this because of x" until we're all just playing a game where you press space bar every 5 seconds to watch a black and white "you win" screen (with audio cues for the blind who also suddenly have a need to be catered to in complex mmos).

    Actually, it is good design for things like warnings. If you overuse them people WILL ignore them.

    Say you had a walk light on a road cars never used. How long do you think it would take until people were jaywalking? One day some car goes down the road for some reason and hits someone. Yes, I can see the driver's lawyers saying there was a 'do not walk' sign but that does not excuse the fact that it was a de-facto pedestrian area there.

    You can ignore traffic signs all day long, but if you slam into the back of a car, it's your fault. Ignorance due to overuse is not a legitimate excuse. It wouldn't hold up in court, because a warning is in place.

    And yes, if it is bad enough that people are doing damage to themselves, they should stop playing games. People know the risks, and it is up to them how much abuse they would inflict on themselves, but it is no one's fault but their own.

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