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World Restructuring


Gaile Gray.6029

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@Endelon.1042 said:

@KOPPER.1458 said:Hard to tell right now but it seems this system doesn't bode well for those who aren't in a guild? Am I wrong?

According to the post you will just be randomly assigned to a world for the duration of that matchup season (8 weeks). So, if you really enjoy running with a certain person or guild then you'll want to join their guild or alliance.

I don't really want to join their guilds. I'm a more casual player and this seems to hurt those people. I like to join the guilds I know now from time to time. I am not saying this is a bad idea but it seems like I'll just be thrown into a world where I don't know people and the matchup might be terrible.

If you're a casual player that likes to join from time to time then pretty much nothing is changing for you. It would be the same thing if most of the guilds on your current server transferred off to somewhere else and you were left following totally new and different guilds that had transferred onto the server.

Well that isn't true. I know the commanders and people on my server. Most of whom I probably won't see when this happens. Or at least there is the potential of losing contact with those people. That is a huge loss and change for me personally.

For the record I realize that the 1 person like myself might just have to bear it. Just vocing my concerns that I see so far.

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Oh man, I absolutely love this concept and can't wait to see it implemented. It'll be sad to see dragonbrand disappearing, but in its wake a WvW worth playing and automatic restructuring sounds like the best way to go... being spawn camped and unable to play at all because you aren't playing peak hours really sucks.

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Hopefully the time zones can be balanced out enough to give as many OCX players, as possible, fun and interesting match-ups, or maybe even accommodate players that play both OCX and NA or EU.

Sucks to see old school server communities depart, like world first teq BeastGate. But, considering how servers like HoD and SoR have almost entirely abandoned forums it's a much needed change to try and balance out things. Not like things were getting better with links, so might as well try and shake things up a bit.

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@McKenna Berdrow.2759 said:

@"Roxanne.6140" said:So exactly how are players being valuated? If someone were to run a support tank build and doesn't output as many numbers as a damage dealer, is this person going to the dumps for being unvaluable?

Players are mostly being evaluated with play hours. We are also looking into commander time and squad size, time of day, and participation levels.

You cant possibly think an of those are actual metrics to play?

I'm sorry but anytime you devalue play as a community into this kind of logic it just doesn't sit right. I see this as becoming quickly abused, where people stack the best WvW players in alliances and wreak the individual players that are doomed to keep being found with completely random people every 8 weeks.

Also I note the word try? What happens in random cases? You split apart a guild? Oh well for 8 weeks you cant play with your friends? There are communities of people and friends that we have come used to being able to play with with some modicum of prediction. That "just" goes away in the name of a pure numbers game that isn't even being based on population or community in any sense beyond picking one group of friends over others from a guild list. Yes if you were to track friends in this game it would look like a social network. Which means you WILL break people up at Random every 8 weeks beyond what you are already doing.

Instead of trying to spend months of serious development time on a theory that clearly can be abused why not deliver something simple first? Allow groups of guilds, regardless of server, to make an alliance and challenge other alliances? Then allow them to have maybe a map or two to wage their war. The wining alliance can even grant some bonus to all there home servers in some way. If you didn't want to go that far just give a map that a few guilds on each side could sign up for and fight as a group. This could be the new "raid" of WvW. The match could last from a day to a week to a few weeks.

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@KOPPER.1458 said:

@KOPPER.1458 said:Hard to tell right now but it seems this system doesn't bode well for those who aren't in a guild? Am I wrong?

According to the post you will just be randomly assigned to a world for the duration of that matchup season (8 weeks). So, if you really enjoy running with a certain person or guild then you'll want to join their guild or alliance.

I don't really want to join their guilds. I'm a more casual player and this seems to hurt those people. I like to join the guilds I know now from time to time. I am not saying this is a bad idea but it seems like I'll just be thrown into a world where I don't know people and the matchup might be terrible.

If you're a casual player that likes to join from time to time then pretty much nothing is changing for you. It would be the same thing if most of the guilds on your current server transferred off to somewhere else and you were left following totally new and different guilds that had transferred onto the server.

Well that isn't true. I know the commanders and people on my server. Most of whom I probably won't see when this happens. Or at least there is the potential of losing contact with those people. That is a huge loss and change for me personally.

For the record I realize that the 1 person like myself might just have to bear it. Just vocing my concerns that I see so far.

If you like a certain person, you can add them to your friends and join their guild/alliance.

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I love that you guys are thinking this far outside the box. TL:DR on all the comments here on my part, but my 2 cents is I love the concept and I'd like it sooner rather than later. The current system is stale, unbalanced, and unsustainable for long-term play for a lot of people still hanging on to this game. Please make this happen!

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@Raymond Lukes.6305 said:

@"Phlogistn.7893" said:I realize that many servers no longer feel they have an "identity". That is not, I feel, the case for Tarnished Coast and some other servers I know of. Some people have been on their server since day one, have friends across guilds and have a history. Although "something" needed to be done with WvW I am sad to think that all the people we play with here will be dispersed to the winds. Even stating they can be in an "alliance" with alliances changing from season to season, makes the continuity of community null. Baby, bathwater.....

F L Ö Guild Leader/Commander Valkyrja Söngur [ODIN], a Tarnished Coast Server Admin

Alliances don't change unless you change them. Alliances are groups of guilds that want to play together. They will be limited in size but will remain together as long as the members of the alliance want.

He may have misspoke but you didn't need to read around what he meant. He is concerned for the rest of the community he loses even though they get a token small group of friends in an alliance.

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I agree with this change, albeit other problems would arise, it sounds like it's gonna be a better solution than server re-linking. We're finally getting the 'Guild' back in 'Guild Wars 2'. Which guild you side with, will matter more than ever.

What people need to understand is that;

  1. If you're casual, this shouldn't even matter to you. You can still get your Gift of Battle done, in fact easier since you'd be paired with people of higher ranks and experience.
  2. Guilds will be able to specify if they are a WvW guild. From this I understand that if your guild is a PvE focus guild, it shouldn't matter to you. Only guilds "specified" as "WvW guilds" will be put into the algorithm, letting anyone in said wvw guild to join their guildmates. Say, if every guild you're in are PvE orientied, then you'd be considered as "WvW guildless" and be calculated based on your own playtime/rank. If you want to play with others in your PvE guilds, you'd have to join a WvW specified guild together or make a new one with your buddies.
  3. Server identities. Home is where the community is, if you like people in your server right now and they like you too , you can just look into forming alliances with the community.

What I'd like to suggest though;

  1. Alliance limit should also have a guild cap instead of just numbers. Guild size should also be considered. Something like "an alliance could fit 3 big guilds of around 100 members each, and 6 smaller ones with less than 50 members each".
  2. Maybe a small refund/gift for those who just transferred servers recently. Hey, it doesn't hurt to ask ;)EDIT:
  3. An extra guild slot would be perfect!
  4. In-game voice coms is long overdue. With alliances and guilds changing teams every 2 months, you can't just have a server teamspeak/discord anymore.
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  • ArenaNet Staff

@dargon.7253 said:How will this work if for example, you have 4 guilds, where everyone is a member of all 4 guilds. These guilds have all been upgraded to allow for various types of claiming in WvW, so for example, 1 can hold 2 camps, 1 tower and 1 keep at the same time. Right now you can do this by swapping guilds. This brings up a couple questions.

1.) Will this sort of activity be possible under the new proposed system?

Claiming and slotting tactics/upgrades is all still handled on the guild level and will still be possible.

2.) If these 4 guilds, lets say a total of 200 unique players among them, are all a part of the same alliance, for the sake of alliance size, will the population of each guild be the only thing looked at, or the unique players in each guild, so if an alliance allows for say 500 players and I'm I'm a member of all 4 guilds in the alliance, do I count as 1 player or 4 players, furthermore given that the membership is shared across the guilds, would they even really count as 4 guilds in the alliance?

You will count as 1 player. This is handled by being able to only select 1 of those guilds as your WvW guild.

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For alliances, will there be alliance leader guilds like in Guild Wars who invites other guilds to join, or would it be an open invite into a guild circled alliance much like the example in the original post?Will we have WvW tournaments coming back?Blowing up the worlds is the only way to fix the population at this point. It was fun getting to meet new people on the links. This will make everyone act like a link in a way and get a variety of different people now. It can only build the WvW community.This will also make pugs join guilds if they have a favorite commander or want a stable community instead of a new one each season. Will there be a way on the WvW panel for guilds to recruit in game or still just on the forums?

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How does this fit in with PvX guilds? Will calling ourselves a WvW guild affect anything else we do as a guild? Are our missions going to change (we go mixed)? Can people be in our guild still if they're playing on a different world?

From my understanding we basically can't join an alliance unless we put all WvW'ers in a second guild for our WvW purposes, and then we have to build that up too. Otherwise an alliance headcount is going to suffer with non-WvW'ers in our guild....? It'd be a waste of time and resources.

Unless our WvW headcount is completely separate from all that and doesn't go by total number of guild members, but active playtime on our world... That sounds less concerning.

For the record, I'm looking forward to changes. WvW needs an overhaul and it's way past due. The attention and effort being put into it is fantastic. I don't support all of the changes proposed, especially after seeing the comments, but with modifications it could be made a lot fairer.

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I see why you need to di it, except for the part of only being allowed one WvW guild. I'm in two right now, and I care about both alot. They have overlapping but not identical people, they run at diff. times and have very diff play styles. I'm bummed that I have to pick one. Plus, FA means a lot to me as a home world/sever, and I'm sad to lose that and just be assigned some random name every time.

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@"GentlemanAce.1957" said:You do realize you're playing a game called Guild Wars 2, not I play alone but still want to play with specific people wars 2 right?

You do realise that the name "Guild Wars" comes from game lore and has absolutely nothing to do with player guilds right so the name of the game has absolutely nothing to do with WvW?

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@Nidome.1365 said:

@"GentlemanAce.1957" said:You do realize you're playing a game called
Guild Wars 2
, not
I play alone but still want to play with specific people wars 2
right?

You do realise that the name "Guild Wars" comes from game lore and has absolutely nothing to do with player guilds right so the name of the game has absolutely nothing to do with WvW?

That doesn't mean there cannot be the creation of an actual guild war!

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@Xbon.9086 said:

@KOPPER.1458 said:Hard to tell right now but it seems this system doesn't bode well for those who aren't in a guild? Am I wrong?

According to the post you will just be randomly assigned to a world for the duration of that matchup season (8 weeks). So, if you really enjoy running with a certain person or guild then you'll want to join their guild or alliance.

I don't really want to join their guilds. I'm a more casual player and this seems to hurt those people. I like to join the guilds I know now from time to time. I am not saying this is a bad idea but it seems like I'll just be thrown into a world where I don't know people and the matchup might be terrible.

If you're a casual player that likes to join from time to time then pretty much nothing is changing for you. It would be the same thing if most of the guilds on your current server transferred off to somewhere else and you were left following totally new and different guilds that had transferred onto the server.

Well that isn't true. I know the commanders and people on my server. Most of whom I probably won't see when this happens. Or at least there is the potential of losing contact with those people. That is a huge loss and change for me personally.

For the record I realize that the 1 person like myself might just have to bear it. Just vocing my concerns that I see so far.

If you like a certain person, you can add them to your friends and join their guild/alliance.

Not sure I understand. I can join their alliance without being in a guild with them? I am a solo casual player who likes to join different active commanders when I am able to play.

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@Nidome.1365 said:

@"GentlemanAce.1957" said:You do realize you're playing a game called
Guild Wars 2
, not
I play alone but still want to play with specific people wars 2
right?

You do realise that the name "Guild Wars" comes from game lore and has absolutely nothing to do with player guilds right so the name of the game has absolutely nothing to do with WvW?

So what? Nothing stopped guilds from doing gvgs in the past 5 years.

Lore doesn't mean anything

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@KOPPER.1458 said:

@KOPPER.1458 said:Hard to tell right now but it seems this system doesn't bode well for those who aren't in a guild? Am I wrong?

According to the post you will just be randomly assigned to a world for the duration of that matchup season (8 weeks). So, if you really enjoy running with a certain person or guild then you'll want to join their guild or alliance.

I don't really want to join their guilds. I'm a more casual player and this seems to hurt those people. I like to join the guilds I know now from time to time. I am not saying this is a bad idea but it seems like I'll just be thrown into a world where I don't know people and the matchup might be terrible.

If you're a casual player that likes to join from time to time then pretty much nothing is changing for you. It would be the same thing if most of the guilds on your current server transferred off to somewhere else and you were left following totally new and different guilds that had transferred onto the server.

Well that isn't true. I know the commanders and people on my server. Most of whom I probably won't see when this happens. Or at least there is the potential of losing contact with those people. That is a huge loss and change for me personally.

For the record I realize that the 1 person like myself might just have to bear it. Just vocing my concerns that I see so far.

If you like a certain person, you can add them to your friends and join their guild/alliance.

Not sure I understand. I can join their alliance without being in a guild with them? I am a solo casual player who likes to join different active commanders when I am able to play.

If the alliance leader lets you in. Of course, you'll need to play their way or you'll be removed from the alliance.

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I see several potential problems with this proposed system.

First, there are many guilds, like mine, that characterize themselves as PVX, meaning they are made up of players who enjoy the different aspects of the game (open world, raids, wvw, etc) together. Several members fill in with WvW through other guilds, but they still enjoy our 1-2 nights as a guild in WvW. What you are proposing will essentially kill this dynamic.

Second, even servers that aren't necessarily super competitive in WvW still have fun together - and have dedicated literally years and thousands of dollars (outside of GW2) to enrich those communities. As an example, our server members maintain a high count teamspeak server and website. These communities mean a lot to us and we do not want to see that investment invalidated, even if the result is better balance (we would rather retain our community).

Third, this system will likely encourage even greater elitism in the game. I worry that the guilds we run with now will end up hitting the alliance "cap" and more casual guilds like mine will be placed in the untenable position of "holding them back" in order to be a part of these limited number community. While some may find this to make the game mode more competitive, I worry that many more will find it creating a more toxic WvW community.

That isn't a direction GW2, which has always leaned toward a more casual environment and playerbase, should be going in. You risk alienating more casual players - segmenting them into a sort of sub-class in the community that no one wants to play with or be associated with.

I strongly urge you to consider these points - and possibly implement some kind of in game opinion collection. I know that tonight, in our guild run in teamspeak, there is not a single player who thinks this is a good idea.

I further hope this isn't a foregone conclusion. The potential damage to in game communities - that many of us care deeply for - isn't worth any potential benefits this system might bring.

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@KOPPER.1458 said:

@KOPPER.1458 said:Hard to tell right now but it seems this system doesn't bode well for those who aren't in a guild? Am I wrong?

According to the post you will just be randomly assigned to a world for the duration of that matchup season (8 weeks). So, if you really enjoy running with a certain person or guild then you'll want to join their guild or alliance.

I don't really want to join their guilds. I'm a more casual player and this seems to hurt those people. I like to join the guilds I know now from time to time. I am not saying this is a bad idea but it seems like I'll just be thrown into a world where I don't know people and the matchup might be terrible.

If you're a casual player that likes to join from time to time then pretty much nothing is changing for you. It would be the same thing if most of the guilds on your current server transferred off to somewhere else and you were left following totally new and different guilds that had transferred onto the server.

Well that isn't true. I know the commanders and people on my server. Most of whom I probably won't see when this happens. Or at least there is the potential of losing contact with those people. That is a huge loss and change for me personally.

For the record I realize that the 1 person like myself might just have to bear it. Just vocing my concerns that I see so far.

If you like a certain person, you can add them to your friends and join their guild/alliance.

Not sure I understand. I can join their alliance without being in a guild with them? I am a solo casual player who likes to join different active commanders when I am able to play.

If you're solo, you should join their guild, not alliance. Think of alliance as a guild for guilds. So Players > Guilds > Alliances.

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