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World Restructuring


Gaile Gray.6029

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This is a huge change, and I think it's the right one. World vs. World has largely been in a point of stasis since 2015; there have been very few server shake-ups after the WvW tournaments ended, and the player population -- while seeing major upticks in certain quarterly updates -- has dropped off significantly following the releases of ArcheAge, Black Desert, and Elder Scrolls Online's own revival.

This is precisely the type of thing Guild Wars 2 needs to do to help differentiate itself from the rest of the RvR games on the market -- both those already released and those incoming. Having a guild-based server system to this scale, in my mind, has never been attempted before; Crowfall's numerous variants in rule sets are probably the closest to this type of system you're implementing, and even then you have the upper hand of an already-established community to build this system off of.

There's reasons to be excited for this both as a Guild Wars 2 fan and as an MMORPG fan. I appreciate you taking the risk.

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No! Please, please don't make this change. Different guilds already choose where they want to be-- think of the old BG guilds that transferred down to FA or another lower tiers because of the better fights. This will also make coordination so much more difficult. Think of the float tags that are put together on the server's TS channels. You won't have guilds willing to tag with randoms using their own TS channels-- instead, it'll kill participation in WvW by anyone that isn't in a major guild.

If nothing else, keep combining the the smaller servers with bigger ones. WvW is successful because people enjoy the way it is. Make new maps, create new systems for combining servers, but don't kill the server system you have currently.

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Ugh, I'm not sure I like the sound of that at all. Sounds like in the name of population balance the only communities we'll have are our guilds. I'm not sure how we're going to take any pride in our worlds which will just become these mutable, disposable things.. given the wvw focus in this game I don't feel like this is a good fit. Guess it's gonna be like wow and ffxiv where you're just grouping with random strangers all the time, now. sigh

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@Head Case.4589 said:

@wildmanviper.4351 said:Oh and since changes are being brainstormed, can you just go ahead and throw an in-game communications platform because why not

They would have to since they are effectively killing any coms outside of guilds.... rip ping and server lag. er.. i mean they never have that problem.

Lynn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You found me :open_mouth: <3

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I think this is a good change, because for some reason ANet thinks that Blackgate is still full / has 24 hour coverage. This hasn't been the case for a long time and in fact our coverage is mostly awful. I only hope that our great community, that I've enjoyed being a part of for many years, can stay as together as possible.

That is my major concern tho. I love BGs community and I worry that we'll lose it.

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Absolutely love this idea as long as I'm able to set or unset my selection for WvW guild at any time and without cost. My assumption is that the player will have complete freedom to change things even if the change won't actually impact the world they are on until the next restructuring. I love that if I do want the change to take place immediately I have the option to use gems (assuming that world is open) as this seems perfectly reasonable.

Contrary to what some here think, this actually gives more power to community builders as they can decide exactly what they do want in their community. Question: the guild forming an alliance controls the members of that alliance? Will it be possible for that guild to then grant alliance controlling permissions to other guilds in the alliance similar to how guild permissions are currently managed?

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Very interesting set of changes. My main worry is that it's heavily predicated on the current metrics to measure player skill and participation, and while I'm sure they're quite refined, it's a hell of a lot of weight on those systems.

Does this mean we might not necessarily always be playing in a 4-tier setup? If you throttle world creation by the total amount of players allowed we might end up with 3 or 5 tiers. Dropping back to 3 tiers might be a good way to keep the experience consistent in a low-activity period.

I like the idea of a guild that's an informal friendslist so I can ensure that my friends who don't really play in WvW can join the same server as mine. Is there any reason for a guild not to declare itself as a WvW guild? With that in mind, is it possible to not select a guild to enter WvW with?

@"Nidome.1365" said:You do realise that the name "Guild Wars" comes from game lore and has absolutely nothing to do with player guilds right so the name of the game has absolutely nothing to do with WvW?

It is still somewhat perplexing that you do not want players to be able to organize themselves into guilds to play competitively in a competitive multiplayer environment.

Yes, people are going to game the system. Refusing to allow people to play with their friends without coughing up a transfer fee so that nobody 'games the system' (even though they can still transfer anyway) is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

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worst idea ever. :s :s :s :s :s :s alot of players will be kicked from their other wvw guilds because they cannot wvw with their guild. Apparently most people dont care to expect this or even think about this. If you aren't in a alliance with your wvw guilds, you can literally kiss that guild goodbye. I truly feel like this is gonna divide people more then help. If the worlds are slow, then merge worlds. Don't force people to have to choose 1 certain guild over another when they have spent alot of time in different guilds and like to run in different guild runs.

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@"LINKAZZATORE.8135" said:

So what? Nothing stopped guilds from doing gvgs in the past 5 years.

Lore doesn't mean anything

This. The name "Guild Wars" was created before the lore, for a reason. If being able to participate in guild wars wasn't an intended part of GW1, it would have been called something else and the lore would have been different.

This system sounds like exactly the kind of change we've needed for a long time. Apart from the bandwagon servers, most of the people who identify as part of a "community" will easily fit within the 500-1000 cap... and those of us who'd quite gladly be shot of them will now have the opportunity to do so.

As a side thought, I'm expecting to see competitive alliances begin to emerge, which means people may begin charging for entry to some of them (both guilds and alliances - and probably players too). Because it's much easier to control that, it'll be much easier to control a sizable component of what becomes a server.

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How will this change affect megaservers for roleplayers? Or anyone else who likes to see the same people's names when they load into open world maps?

Although guild is a large factor when determining which IP players are assigned to when they load a map, world also played a part. If you destroy Piken Square and Tarnished Coast, what happens to guildless roleplayers, or roleplayers from several guilds who are guild capped? Do they get scattered?

This could be the worrying final nail in the coffin for open world roleplay if this hasn't been considered. It sounds like you've thought of almost everything where WvW is concerned, but map assignment is still very important for a subsection of this game's community.

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@KOPPER.1458 said:Hard to tell right now but it seems this system doesn't bode well for those who aren't in a guild? Am I wrong?

According to the post you will just be randomly assigned to a world for the duration of that matchup season (8 weeks). So, if you really enjoy running with a certain person or guild then you'll want to join their guild or alliance.

I don't really want to join their guilds. I'm a more casual player and this seems to hurt those people. I like to join the guilds I know now from time to time. I am not saying this is a bad idea but it seems like I'll just be thrown into a world where I don't know people and the matchup might be terrible.

If you're a casual player that likes to join from time to time then pretty much nothing is changing for you. It would be the same thing if most of the guilds on your current server transferred off to somewhere else and you were left following totally new and different guilds that had transferred onto the server.

Well that isn't true. I know the commanders and people on my server. Most of whom I probably won't see when this happens. Or at least there is the potential of losing contact with those people. That is a huge loss and change for me personally.

For the record I realize that the 1 person like myself might just have to bear it. Just vocing my concerns that I see so far.

If you like a certain person, you can add them to your friends and join their guild/alliance.

Not sure I understand. I can join their alliance without being in a guild with them? I am a solo casual player who likes to join different active commanders when I am able to play.

If the alliance leader lets you in. Of course, you'll need to play their way or you'll be removed from the alliance.

Not sure if they are going to accept 1 person..

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Second thought: Please add player/guild/alliance leaderboards with this. Encourage the competition, now we're going to have a way it means something.

And many thanks for bringing back some hope for a working WvW. I just paid for gems again for the first time in a very long time.

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@Haadi.9764 said:

@KOPPER.1458 said:Hard to tell right now but it seems this system doesn't bode well for those who aren't in a guild? Am I wrong?

According to the post you will just be randomly assigned to a world for the duration of that matchup season (8 weeks). So, if you really enjoy running with a certain person or guild then you'll want to join their guild or alliance.

I don't really want to join their guilds. I'm a more casual player and this seems to hurt those people. I like to join the guilds I know now from time to time. I am not saying this is a bad idea but it seems like I'll just be thrown into a world where I don't know people and the matchup might be terrible.

If you're a casual player that likes to join from time to time then pretty much nothing is changing for you. It would be the same thing if most of the guilds on your current server transferred off to somewhere else and you were left following totally new and different guilds that had transferred onto the server.

Well that isn't true. I know the commanders and people on my server. Most of whom I probably won't see when this happens. Or at least there is the potential of losing contact with those people. That is a huge loss and change for me personally.

For the record I realize that the 1 person like myself might just have to bear it. Just vocing my concerns that I see so far.

If you like a certain person, you can add them to your friends and join their guild/alliance.

Not sure I understand. I can join their alliance without being in a guild with them? I am a solo casual player who likes to join different active commanders when I am able to play.

If you're solo, you should join their guild, not alliance. Think of alliance as a guild for guilds. So Players > Guilds > Alliances.

I have said before. I do not want to join a guild. A guild has their own set of rules, play times and other restrictions. I can free agent all over the place with trusted commanders I know.

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Just about a month ago, I paid 1000 gems to move to a new server. The old server I was in has changed over time, from a good community of wvw'ers to one being run by guilds with rude, arrogant commanders and their team of equally bad boot-licking members.

I am now very happy in my current server and ANet wants to create a system where every 8 weeks I will be randomly moved to a world depending on my participation and regardless of my liking or not? Instead of players getting to choose what kind of community we like to go to, now it's a random placement with a good chance to be back with the people whom in the first place I have paid gems just to stay away from them. Great change!

So... Can I have my 1000 gem back, please?

Like what many have said here, you are about to kill WvW. For good this time.

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I think this is a step in the right direction - if youre good - youll be happily accepted in a guild/ alliance - BUT - Will a good guild/ alliance be kept linking with really bad noob pugs or will it be on rank? Although i know a lot of high rankers who have very bad fighting skill/ reactions - how will you measure this?

A lot of WvW servers already share discord/ TS therefore they may want to become an alliance - although some guilds hate each other on the same ts/ discord, so changes could help that.

Very excited about Alliances - as a Vet. GW1 player i miss that in GW2. ALSO - time to work on GvGs guys within a separate map rather than hogging place in gvg spots on borderlands.

talk of getting pips in EOTM? - maybe interesting for achievement hunters that want EOTM achis....

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Yes! So excited for this.

WvW badly needs this shakeup - you have servers intentionally tanking to get different matchups. You have hourly coverage discrepancies . You have people afk-ing or quitting for the week because the matchup is so unbalanced.

This is just the sort of thing that could fix these problems and people still get to stay together as a guild (well, at least one guild). Even if it's not perfect the first time, I'm glad you're trying new things and putting resources into WvW!

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On consideration I feel like we need at least 1 more guild slot to help with this system. Right now with 5 slots I'm already capped out on guilds but don't have a WvW guild and definitely want one. My guilds are 1 - a large community guild I've been in since long before gw2, 2 - RL friend guild, 3- personal bank guild, 4 - pvp guild, 5 - event guild ie. TTS, which doesn't even leave room for more specific guilds like the Drytop Guild, or the Serpents Ire guild I've seen advertised recently.

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Even though this thread is long, it looks like many of the people failed to read through it, as the questions were already answered:

  • I cant play with my friends (You and your friends create a new WvW guild, set that as your guild, bam, you play together if you choose, problem solved)
  • I have multiple guilds for a reason, havoc, zerging, fights etc.. (Create a unified guild between the 3, then you can do whatever you want, there are 500 slots, it is highly unlikely any guild will be able to populate all 500 slots with active members. Problem solved)
  • What about my separate PvE and WvW guilds I play with (Map out the players you want to play with in both, create a guild with those players, both needs met, bam, problem solved)
  • This destroys server identity (server identity doesn't matter anymore, transfers killed it. Server identity isn't a valid argument as long as transfers exist)
  • What if I'm a casual ? (Find other casuals who feel the same way as you and create a "casual" WvW guild, bam, problem solved)
  • This will turn out to be an EoTM fest (Not sure how anyone arrives at this conclusion. Insert Team 1 that enters map intending to K-Train, runs into Team 2 that has no intention on K-training. Team 2 continually hunts and runs over Team 1; there is no EoTM. Good luck on trying to convince your entire team to EoTM K-train in the first place, but even better luck trying to convince the other 2 enemy teams to agree to it. You'll have better luck winning the lottery than trying to organize some massive transfer in between alliances to orchestrate a picture perfect EoTM K-train. This is certainly not an issue and never will be)

One thing I've noticed reading through this thread, just how little support there is behind the current system. I knew there were some people for the existence of servers, but didn't realize just how few people there are. There is literally a handful of naysayers in this thread only, which when multiplied over the big picture in comparison to the support of the new idea, we basically have a very very small fraction of the population that's behind servers. This prove this new alliance system is fully warranted.

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@jacobian.6173 said:The only real problem I foresee with this is that all of the top guilds will make an alliance together to dominate the rest of the worlds. and because of how you make it sound it would just be another BG type of deal over the rest of the world.

Let them have tier 1 then. It makes no difference if your in tier 1 or tier 2 or tier 3. If it means there is more wvw going on at all times, then it's a good thing! Let the try hards have their own tier and let other people have plenty of fun more often in the lower tiers.

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Well, I'm glad that the big Brothers of the world won't have their server name to lord over their links anymore and we'll all be on equal footing, but at the same time I feel sorry for these big brothers, even the biggest ones.

If you're a link and have been this whole time, very little will change for you except that now you may not know ANYONE on your new "server", but if you're a smaller host, I feel you're in for major cultural shock the likes of which no link has prepared you for yet to date.

Communications will be an issue, recruitment will be an issue, and I feel trolling and unsavories will still be and perhaps exceed previous records of unsavoryness to date. Current link communities will mostly fall further down the ladder because most are a combination of several smaller guilds that each and every player in them worked to build and will be reluctant to give up in favor of one "community" guild just to continue playing together and the same can be said for most smaller guilds on current hosts, not to mention even of everyone joined a "community" guild now, it would sort of defeat the purpose of trying to balance population if the current ones are so wack. If there are tiers in this new system, and if we assume that historically certain tiers play certain ways, if there are several historically blobby guilds on the same session with others that don't like to blob, or if there are a bunch of roamers against an opposing blobby session...and most importantly, host server pride, now they say pride doesn't exist anymore, but I say wait and see what you think when this system is put in place.

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