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World Restructuring


Gaile Gray.6029

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Well, sometimes you dont know what to say.There are moaning of the "mercenary"-servers (the lesser linking servers) of the loss of server identityYour proposal of developing a lot of mini-"merc"-servers was blown into little bits by the comm, among other things, because of missing server identity.And what idea do you get?You repeal the worlds entirely...Certainly this will increase server-identification....

It would have been better, if there had been no support for wvw at all, than this botch.The opposite of "well done" is not "bad done", but "well meant".

I`m from aba.I like my server for the kind of play it offers to me: not deadly serious and not only success and/or fight oriented.And that I will not be able to find in the new system - best I can hope for will be two fractions argueing about that all the time.For me, if the new system really is coming, it will be the farewell for wvw.And, cause wvw is the one thing keeping me to gw2, it will be the farewell for the game.What a pity.

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This game has been stagnant for way to long to leave things as they were. The population has proven they can't manage themselves responsibly so good on anet for finally utilizing their metrics to make wvw better.

This is bittersweet for sure since the vast majority of my gameplay has been with Maguuma, but mag died long ago, or what it was atleast. Server identity only really exists for blackgate (overstacked in relation to other servers for much of the games lifespan) and Tarnished Coast (home of the carebears). What the other servers have is a husk of what once was with only a handful of people clinging to their old identity. These people should not dictate what the rest of the game needs to endure because they cry the loudest.

Personally I was a hardcore wvw player. But who I flag as my wvw group will be the people I enjoy playing with the most. A casual wvw guild thats more about fun than winning every fight. So many communities are fragmented by dead guilds that not many new groups really have a chance to grow in the current set up, people want to keep their old.guild tags and there hasn't been a real con until now not having a dedicated wvw guild.

One question I have is, can you tie in the loyalty bonus for eliminating in active people flagged as wvw players. This way you can shrink the alliance cap but have room for the real casuals

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Just want to say, this is fantastic. Everything about it sounds like exactly what we need and what proper guilds have been hoping for throughout the last 5 years. Nice and bold, just hope you have the stones to pull through on it (ignore the moaning, ppl afraid of change and/or putting in any effort).

Questions though,

  • How will guilds 'lock-in' the concept they are in an alliance together? Will both guilds have to press some sort of commit button? If so, I take it that would be handled by the GLs?
  • Also, what happens if one guild doesn't want to be in an alliance with another any longer? Would one guild have to break free from an alliance to escape a guild they no longer wanted to be associated with? Or Would there be a single guild at the core of an alliance and should they deselect the link with another, that guild would be removed from the alliance?
  • How will the system algorithms planned tackle guild coverage? will everything be split into prime-time and non-prime? Will there be another split for Nightcrew? I'm asking because for sure there will be PPT alliances and PPK alliances and I'd recommend you try ensuring there is some kind of balance/harmony between the two (please don't be naive to think we'll get along, we never have and never will). I am hoping there will be some of the rumored guild k/d API stats coming to help sort balance in that regard?
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Here is another idea for others that are hell bent on server identity and community: Form a guild for that very purpose. Call it SICA - Server Identity & Community Alliance

See how many people you get. You may get large numbers, but I highly doubt you'll get as many as you think.

We have to face facts here as well, That certain blobby server that these changes are likely due to is stillfree to form their own guild/alliance with their entire current server if they choose. Then they can continue to blob around and attempt to roll undefended maps as they did. There is only 1 small difference this time, the match-up will now likely be even numbers on all maps. If they think they're the best, time to prove it; form an entire server alliance, and test yourself against even numbers. Though we all know how that is going to pan out..

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@A Net. If you're updating WvW please put Concentration & Expertise infusions in & give the Legendary Backpack precursor HoT & PoF stats. Also for what it's worth my opinion is that this won't change anything. It will just create a clump of guilds that roll together and roll over everyone else. Blackgate will just change from BG to [bG]. Guilds that control matchups basically by deliberately boosting or tanking each week. But that's just my opinion.

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For the people who keep saying if you want community to join the alliance..., we wont be able to keep all of our community into one alliance. They said it would not be possible. We can't make all of our server 1 alliance. We want to keep our server. We know the scouts, we know the big guilds, we know the wall busting little guilds who havoc, we know the roamers, we know the trolls, we know the commanders. We know the people... and the people make the server and the community.

People keep saying ooh the only people who wont like this is BG, well I am BG there are some good points and idea's. But our server has not been allowed a link since the first link, we have not been open to get new blood on our server for a while now. We endured, we fought on, we fight hard. Why?? Because we could trust our server, we had to trust our server, we pull long hours, we have guilds who run 3-4 nights a week 3-4 hours each. We have scouts I think they are sleep deprived, we pull hours on hours even not when its our guild's night. We run in many guilds depending on the time zone. People act like we are so super stacked, no we just VERY dedicated players willing to play the time needed to keep us on top.

We fought to keep our server where it is, and now the threat of only getting a few guilds into an alliance then having the rest of our wvw family moved away from us after this long is heart breaking.

Cheers to the future, please don't kill our game mode.

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@SnowPumpkin.1809 said:Ok so question. I WVW a lot and my BF works and does when he can. Even if we are in the same guild will we be split because of play hrs etc? If not can't you see how elite guilds that only pick the best of the best that have 100% dedication and alliance with like guilds will be OP in WVW? Also the same guilds that may take me may refuse him so....I could make my own guild but then do we get put in a map with a lot of hardcore players because of me, or with casual because of him or do we get split up? You see the problem?

I would have every confidence that as youre on a lot the very least, you will find a guild that is less restrictive, friendly and take both of you on probably before this would go live - we would have months and Anet seems to be planting this seed for change. This restructuring would turn a lot on its head. Your current guild(s) your in now may actually change there focus/ vision too which both you or your bf may or may not want to be part of before any of this goes live.

I dont know any more details than you, but say you're both on different 'world' on day 1 after restructuring, you will be in 2 different worlds to scout out the guilds/ alliances that form. I hope Anet will provide free transfers in the first season so either you or your BF can join that preferred guild and server.

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Overall I Also think this is a great idea. All players will get in WvW, but its better if you are in an alliance or a guild then as an individual. One suggestion though, perhaps Average out the numbers of players in the Off hours and and perhaps make those guild count for 3x or 5x their numbers in alliances. this way, it will guarantee they spread out among the new worlds.

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Basically, the idea was the same as the "leaked" I heard from someone almost a year ago....So, took almost an year to actually decide to get into it and check the public reactions of it.

@Concordia Discors.7592 said:How does this fit in with PvX guilds? Will calling ourselves a WvW guild affect anything else we do as a guild? Are our missions going to change (we go mixed)? Can people be in our guild still if they're playing on a different world?

From my understanding we basically can't join an alliance unless we put all WvW'ers in a second guild for our WvW purposes, and then we have to build that up too. Otherwise an alliance headcount is going to suffer with non-WvW'ers in our guild....? It'd be a waste of time and resources.

Unless our WvW headcount is completely separate from all that and doesn't go by total number of guild members, but active playtime on our world... That sounds less concerning.

For the record, I'm looking forward to changes. WvW needs an overhaul and it's way past due. The attention and effort being put into it is fantastic. I don't support all of the changes proposed, especially after seeing the comments, but with modifications it could be made a lot fairer.

Ermm....

As far as they described, the system will only recognize the players that specifically chose WvW guild as WvWers. So, choosing WvW guild is optional. However, what if people choose WvW guild for the sake of choosing it? Would it consider them as active players just like that or base on historical activities?

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@"KalasDelRio.8921" said: > Simply put: If you and your Guild play nothing but WvW, expect to be placed alongside like-minded players against other worlds full of like-minded players. This should result in a higher level of WvW play for players/Guilds who enjoy playing at that level.

I hope you are right. However, I remain skeptical because of my experience. My guild and server have played WvW in the top tier for years and I have enjoyed myself immensely playing against only the best servers. But for one season we dropped down only a single tier, and the WvW lost all its fun.. We steamrolled over our opponents. It was so easy that it was no fun. I know it had to be even less fun for our opponents.

At best, this new system can only duplicate my experience at having great and appropriate opponents. At worst, NO one will have any fun for the season. So why change? Perhaps the other tiers will start having more fun, I don't know. All I do know is that it will be a trainwreck for those of us in the top tier. Perhaps the politics of envy will rejoice at this. But will the other tiers fare any better? There is no guarantee. Will "time played" be as sure a measure of skill as our current system's measure?

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Is it possible that I could get my 1800 gems refunded for a world transfer I did? I've only been part of the world for about a couple months, and had I known ahead of time that this change was coming, I would've spent the gems on something else entirely. Certainly doesn't feel worth the cost to be part of a different world for a few months only to have it scrapped entirely.

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For the love of server identity and love of our fellow players, do not go through with this change. I love Tarnished Coast, I enjoy the links we have, and I would much rather the downtime during the off peak NA (OCX/SEA) time than lose all the core Tarnished Coast people Im familiar with.

This change for me will absolutely kill the love and motivation, especially having seen TC go from a power house to a t4 rank 12 server and have to actively work hard with teaching, and putting in the effort to rally and create the relationships with people that I, and many many others on TC, have.

To be evaluated upon my "pip farming" as opposed to what I and others do for and with the server as a whole is, quite frankly, appalling and makes me sad. It is also insulting.

I am against this change. Do something better with your time, like, I don't know; Fix the horrendously excessive list of issues that people here, and on reddit, have brought up AS WELL as given input as to how things can be fixed. We need proper balance and skill splitting. Not this. Never this.

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I'm interested to know how they will measure k/d api stats, 'participation', etc. I sometimes do a lot of scouting. Will that push me down the list? Just because I feel like scouting doesn't mean I don't like huge 3 way zerg fests- I love them. Just not all the time. Variety is the spice of life. I'm also not the type to rush around desperately trying to maximise my points/kills, etc, preferring to take my time and enjoy my leisure time.

I don't want to join a big guild because they are usually very political. I also have a tendency to end up sooner or later as guild leader, and I no longer want that sort of involvement in a game- I have a RL.

I can't join any voice comm for personal reasons- which most commanders on my server know and understand. I don't want to have to explain this to people all over again.

This new system forces players like me to join a larger guild. I don't want to join a pug guild with players below my skill level, but I don't want to join some crazed 'do it our way or else' mad keen must raid 4 times a week or kick type guild- even if I run with them, sometimes several times a week (yes, despite no voice comms, and not using a 'meta' build).

I like being a 'casual' player without the commitments belonging to a full wvw guild entails. I like following our current commanders .

But the current system needs to change- there are large swathes of time when no one is on any map.

Just wondering where in the plan players like me fit in. Or should we just quit now? (ex- top 30 gvg guild, Guild Wars player- back when 10,000 guilds played it and getting in the top 100 was bloody hard!).

I've played another game with guild alliances- the politics is something I don't miss. Also, most of the so-called 'elite guilds' are pretty easy to take down or play with so they get frustrated:-)

If there are no checks and balances then people and guilds will be pigeon holed, and one alliance will totally dominate every match up they have, several alliances will have all the fun and be impossible to enter and then the rest will have little to no organisation leading to bad match ups and people quitting the game/mode and a huge barrier to entry for new players. Might lead to a very small wvw population. This problem needs to be addressed before it happens.

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@Ubi.4136 said:

@Kerall.7390 said:Well, not optimistic about the effects this will have on WvW. I'd love to be proven wrong. But this looks like it will destroy communities.

Thats going to ruin wvw for a lot of people, this essentially makes it meaningless as there is no reason to play for your server. No reason to defend, upgrade, scout, or do anything. It will basically turn into an eotm style ktrain.

I guess they want everyone to do nothing but trade towers for karma.Prepare for the greatest exploitation of this game (and game format) to date.The T1 guilds are just going to ally with themselves or create 1-5 mega guilds so that they can stack on the same world.Pretty much all the militia folks, regardless of skill and play time, will end up in no man's land. I should not have to join a mega (forced 100% rep) wvw guild to play...but it's gonna happen. Guess us militia folks will play in the basement tier and ktrain too.

How long do you think it will be before the so called 'fights guild and players' start complaining that wvw is boring and nothing but pvd...?

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@Klipso.8653 said:

@"Zephyr.8015" said:Quite honestly I am upset, especially because you name Blackgate as a problem server when its not. It is not BG's problem that servers don't want to participate in WvW, it is also not our problem that other servers aren't putting in time and effort into WvW in comparison to others. Looking at this site:
BG does not have the WvW population people think it does. I am so kitten glad to hear that anet has listened to the massive amount of haters of BG that carry around giant amounts of salt from Season 1 and 2. Because its BG's fault they don't put in effort, its BG's fault they get rolled over, its BG's fault that they don't play the game type as well. Anyone on SoS can tell you they have been doing well these past two weeks against us, by putting in effort and playing the game type. All this alliance thing will do is require more guild politics/map politics and cause drama. I am sure BG isn't alone in the fact that we have members of guilds who are in multiple WvW guilds, forcing them to choose 1 guild for an 8 week period or just in general to WvW with isn't cool. But I guess that's an exclusive issue on closed servers having to recruit from a limited pool of players, while other servers can recruit a lot more. This boils down to effort, the fact that you'd rather break apart servers who do WvW well to make it fair to those who don't want to put in effort.

This is a hard fact that will be ignored by the ignorant

It is also a hard fact that battlegroups was an idea first hinted at before server links and before T1 was as it is today, meaning that this announcement has nothing to do with today's BG.

Yet anet felt the need to point us out by name, even though we aren't the problem? They're just feeding into the propaganda built on pillars of salt

Your server alone is winning against four other servers. Any other server matched up against you without a link would lose, most likely without winning a skirmish. How is that not stacked?

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Strongly in favor of this change. Looks great.

Sad that some will lose their communities, but there are ways to keep them together if they mean that much to you.

But as a competitive game mode, rather than just a place to socialize, this could really reinvigorate the community.

I do hope this is built with a view to leaderboards and minor rewards for winning servers. Something to make the matches meaningful.

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@clone wars.9568 said:Why does anet keep ignoring whats under their nose? Why server linking in the first place? The solution was and still is SIMPLE, DELETE half the lower pop servers and open up the others.

By doing what you have suggested you basically render all wvw server sites useless, kill communication because there will be no voice comms anymore. Or allies will run their own and one world could end up with zero voice comms or 5+ (which is nearly just as useless). each ally having their own voice comms...You also kill any server pride.Are us max ranks all gonna end up on the same servers while low ranks end up together also. And then u force big guilds to join each others ally? And this will give wvw more balance??

on the up side it may help with server spying because everyone will be kicked from their current servers.

As someone else said this sounds like it will be a complete mess with regard to communication and could be the final nail in the wvw coffin. If you wanted wvw to end up all like eotm ktrain then this is what you do by killing server pride and communities.

As i've said for YEARS we need to simply lose half the servers and keep the rest to help solve the balance issues. There is a simple idea like thats being ignored and a more complex solution that offers nothing better (like deleting them all) being planned? why?

I agree that this is a bad idea. The TS and Discord comms server a purpose in my server to help with fast communication during callouts and during roaming. Now suddenly this type of communication is irrelevant unless a group sets up a new communications server every 8 weeks.  I feel a plan to merge smaller servers is a good one. Let the people choose which server they want to go to if they are on one of the deleted servers. 
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@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:How is the loyalty pip going to work if there are no worlds to be loyal to? Apologies if this has already been asked.

It's not a loyalty pip anymore(they changed it shortly after starting it), its now the commitment pip, you get it for getting wood last week.

And if you did not transfer, which still makes server loyalty come into play for this pip currently whatever it's called. So, I ask again, how can we hold to the loyalty stipulation assosiated with this pip if none of us have a server? Is the transfer penalty going to be removed or is the whole pip going away?

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@Teleoceras.1298 said:

@clone wars.9568 said:Why does anet keep ignoring whats under their nose? Why server linking in the first place? The solution was and still is SIMPLE, DELETE half the lower pop servers and open up the others.

By doing what you have suggested you basically render all wvw server sites useless, kill communication because there will be no voice comms anymore. Or allies will run their own and one world could end up with zero voice comms or 5+ (which is nearly just as useless). each ally having their own voice comms...You also kill any server pride.Are us max ranks all gonna end up on the same servers while low ranks end up together also. And then u force big guilds to join each others ally? And this will give wvw more balance??

on the up side it may help with server spying because everyone will be kicked from their current servers.

As someone else said this sounds like it will be a complete mess with regard to communication and could be the final nail in the wvw coffin. If you wanted wvw to end up all like eotm ktrain then this is what you do by killing server pride and communities.

As i've said for YEARS we need to simply lose half the servers and keep the rest to help solve the balance issues. There is a simple idea like thats being ignored and a more complex solution that offers nothing better (like deleting them all) being planned? why?
I agree that this is a bad idea. The TS and Discord comms server a purpose in my server to help with fast communication during callouts and during roaming. Now suddenly this type of communication is irrelevant unless a group sets up a new communications server every 8 weeks.  I feel a plan to merge smaller servers is a good one. Let the people choose which server they want to go to if they are on one of the deleted servers. 

Add in-game proximity-based VoIP

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