World Restructuring - Where's the incentive to defend & to make us care about winning? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

World Restructuring - Where's the incentive to defend & to make us care about winning?

ThunderPanda.1872ThunderPanda.1872 Member ✭✭✭
edited February 2, 2018 in WvW

I am not at all against the concept of world restructuring, but I still can't see how it will resolve one of the most crucial long standing issue of WvW - Care enough about winning to defend. While I'm sure there'll be great fights and rivalries between alliances, I really don't want to see the rest of WvW devolve into eotm karma train.

In fact, I can see the lack of care become even worse with the new system:
1. Many smaller, individual players that scout and maintain objectives will no longer feel as much integrated within a community.
2. Guilds & alliance will have a stronger self-centric agenda, especially since they'll no longer feel affiliated to anyone else in the world community outside of their own alliance.
3. Alliance leaderboard will not make this any better, it will only make it worse at the current state. Every alliance will farm their KDR at the expense of playing for points, and why would anyone risk death trying to hold an objective. Furthermore, any achievements on the 'point' category in the leaderboard will only be ridiculed by others in the general community.

I admit I don't have any magic solution, but unless we find some ways for people to care about winning, I really do not want to see this world restructuring, I don't want to see an interesting concept fail and becomes karma train.

Anyone who has a solution, please share.

Power > Condition

Comments

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭

    The few communities that have survived to the Linning system screw.

    Your friends in your server that outside of your guild screw, you can play with them anymore.

    And the alliances are just blob fiesta with a name.

    How can it be a solution?

  • HardRider.2980HardRider.2980 Member ✭✭✭

    I feel because it's over 8 weeks, It'll give people time to care..
    I haven't met many people who actually care about rankings anymore tbh If anything they mostly cared about their ability to roam, zerg fight and over general good fights, with a sort of pride of winning as a massive HA to a world they were fighting.

    A City of Heroes never die... A City of Villains will never surrender... Neither City will be forgotten.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2018

    Game is not abut defend, it is about ktrain faster than the other 2 servers :D, reason structucres are easy to take under 1 minute when they are not upgraded.
    And talkign about defense, when keep are build in valeys of can be trebbed directly inner and outer from nearby hill... plz.... theres no defense, just gimmicks to cap.

    Game is ment to be easy and carry the lamers and pve'rs.

  • eyestrain.3056eyestrain.3056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2018

    I used to be motivated by loyalty to server/community, but after five years and four server transfers, I've learned that my first priority should always to be loyal to myself.
    Is what i'm doing fun? If not, I shouldn't be spending hours doing it. Whether the scouts and defenders are people I know well or unfamiliar names, if I feel like helping defend something (whether it's a big fight, scouting, or chill maintenance like walking yaks), that's what I'll do. And if I don't feel like it, only unbalanced and myopic people would chew me out for putting my own enjoyment of my free time first.
    It's a game. If someone wants to play for the team, they should play for the team regardless of who that team is. If they get stuck with a team of people who are just rotten and no fun to play with, in eight weeks they'll get a shot to be among better company. If they meet people they really love playing with, it's time to join that guild and follow them along to the next matchup.

    What will motivate people to defend and upgrade instead of just ktraining? There are those of us who simply enjoy the challenge. Going our own way, being helpful to our allies, and being a thorn in our enemy's side is just part of our personality. There are players who find ktraining about as appealing as having teeth pulled. Hopefully even with a huge shakeup like this proposed restructuring, we will be able to find and play with each other and those who appreciate how we like to play.

    ps- Chest-thumping about being #1 is currently the ONLY reward for being #1. When I was a newb I thought it was special, but quickly learned it isn't important or even a great indicator of any given server population's abilities due to politics and backdoor manipulation dictating much of the outcome. Outside of loot, the only motivator for even playing wvw is the love of the game mode, so I think for most, "exciting and fun experiences" are the real goal (rather than having the highest score every week). More varied and interesting matchups would serve that goal better than the current stagnation.

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Where is it now?

    The results of a match have been meaningless since launch. That's another problem that fixing population balance won't solve, but it may make it possible to solve without bandwagoning ruining everything.

  • I bet they change nothing with Baruch Bay in the EU MUs. :D

  • WvW is already a massive Ktrain. It took over from EOTM when reward tracks were added and became even more so when the skirmish rewards were added. Why else are all the zergs in EBG chasing each other around and back capping? One big Ktrain interrupted by huge open field fights to farm bags. Meanwhile, a few small roamer groups are trying to get their home BL in order, asking for help and mostly being ignored because there's no bags to be farmed. And now Anet kills off the last of server pride/loyalty.

  • CrimsonNeonite.1048CrimsonNeonite.1048 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2018

    It will depend on the rewards IMO, whether it's worth pushing that agenda ahead of getting good fights.

  • Tiawal.2351Tiawal.2351 Member ✭✭✭

    The incentive can be in a "leaderboard" or something, where every WvW player is listed and tracked. This can include hours played, kills, deaths, participation in defense and capture events, other events, and based on these a total score that shows the participation value (or caring and contributing to the team he/she was part of). This should exist anyway, otherwise players can't be distributed in a balanced way. This ranking should show your value, in how much useful you are to a team, though can't show emotional relationship, your motivating or demotivating power, and for that would be useful to have a reputation system, included in chat as well, where other players can give red & blue points (for useful contribution such as good scout report, or bad contribution such as troll EWP activation).

    Anyway, change was needed. Really. Won't be perfect suddenly, but if we keep improving it, things will get better.

  • Until the final product is released, we won't know its impact on roamers, scouts and homeland defenders (which is the way I've played the game 90% of the time). But, I am looking forward to the change.

  • People play WvW for a variety of reasons today. People played for a variety of reasons when the game launched. People will play for a variety of reasons after the new system is introduced and after it's tweaked.

    Some people's preferences will get a boost with the overhaul and some people will find it rougher going. The main thing we can say for sure is that we'll all have to adapt and see what its' really like. The devil will be in the details (of which we have precious few right now, mostly because ANet is still figuring things out).

    In the meantime, let's not assume that anyone else's motivations are less important to "good WvW" than our own nor that the changes will be definitely good for guilds (or bad for PUGs), nor necessarily good for k-training (bad for battles).

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Hackuuna.4085Hackuuna.4085 Member ✭✭✭

    @X T D.6458 said:
    Guilds will suffer, because they wont be able to properly recruit players due to lack of militia on the new servers, lack of fights, and matchups having no meaning whatsoever because you are not playing for anything anymore.

    I can't say I agree with the thought that giving players greater freedom to move around and self-organize will make recruitment harder. EoTM style ktrainers are in for a rude awakening if they think there won't be fight guild alliances looking to farm bags. As far as matchups having meaning, I think the only meaning I've seen consistently for the past 6 months has been "avoid T1".

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Lets be honest, the only remote reason to care about your world was gone when they removed the world bonuses.
    After that it was all about the _"me me me me me me me me mine!" _
    So the new system won't make much difference. And this is coming from a guy that has been on the same server since pre-launch, never even guested out of it.

  • @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    the only remote reason to care about your world was gone when they removed the world bonuses.

    I know almost no one who cared about their world because of the Power of the Mists. On the contrary, I know people today who still care about their world. Not everyone views the universe the same way. Those reasons might not matter to you, but that's okay since they are reason enough for those that see their world as important.

    As it turns out, lots of humans are "joiners" and they'll bond for all sorts of esoteric reasons that are difficult to describe. Maybe it's technically accurate to say that people don't care much about their world, but lots of people care about the people they know from their WvW world. So it's simply a useful shorthand for folks to say they are "loyal to their world" instead.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2018

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    the only remote reason to care about your world was gone when they removed the world bonuses.

    I know almost no one who cared about their world because of the Power of the Mists. On the contrary, I know people today who still care about their world. Not everyone views the universe the same way. Those reasons might not matter to you, but that's okay since they are reason enough for those that see their world as important.

    As it turns out, lots of humans are "joiners" and they'll bond for all sorts of esoteric reasons that are difficult to describe. Maybe it's technically accurate to say that people don't care much about their world, but lots of people care about the people they know from their WvW world. So it's simply a useful shorthand for folks to say they are "loyal to their world" instead.

    Well, then you mean loyal/care about their world's community, right?
    That's handled by alliances.

    And if you had cared to read below the lines below the one you quoted, i've said i'm actually one of those that actually cares about their world.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2018

    Short story short, you are being consolidated. Anet no longer sees any value in your play style, though that's been a recurring theme.

    In practice though, your community will most likely create a guild for you to join and ally with whoever was there. So honestly, you're probably not going to see too much change in this regards actually. Unless of course you were on break from now into then, then well, I guess gg.

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2018

    I pretty regularly see people saying that PPT is not an effective measure of score. With this in mind, I don't see what we're actually losing by potentially encouraging people not to PPT that much.

    That said, if these roles are necessary for competitive alliances to win, then those competitive alliances will need to either form scout guilds as members of their alliance or allow scouts into their own guilds. If they don't, then these roles were never important anyway... And truth be told I think the sentry/scout role is an artifact anyway.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2018

    I don't understand. a few good acs with a decent 20 person squad can farm kills like crazy.

    I think alliances will be generally big enough to support a few scouts / roamers.

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As long as my guildies and I can roam and small scale, thats all I care about and all I ever cared about. We are more PPK focused, but wont pass up a shot of taking something while PPKing. Anyone can run in a group and spam 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1, but skill comes from what happens if you are singled out in a 1v1 or 2v1.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @hunkamania.7561 said:
    When was there ever incentive to defend?

    This

  • No servers means I am out. I will find another game to play. The community within the guilds and the servers is what makes the game fun in WVW. Later ANET. No more money from me.

  • If you don't defend, then you are part of the problem. Commander can give you participation to defend and good players are willing to do that to be of service to their server. That is the incentive.

  • @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Game is not abut defend, it is about ktrain faster than the other 2 servers :D, reason structucres are easy to take under 1 minute when they are not upgraded.
    And talkign about defense, when keep are build in valeys of can be trebbed directly inner and outer from nearby hill... plz.... theres no defense, just gimmicks to cap.

    Game is ment to be easy and carry the lamers and pve'rs.

    No it's not. WvW is about great fights and the best fights come defending SMC and Keeps. Ktrain is boring. May as well go farm mats.

  • @ThunderPanda.1872 said:
    I am not at all against the concept of world restructuring, but I still can't see how it will resolve one of the most crucial long standing issue of WvW - Care enough about winning to defend. While I'm sure there'll be great fights and rivalries between alliances, I really don't want to see the rest of WvW devolve into eotm karma train.

    In fact, I can see the lack of care become even worse with the new system:
    1. Many smaller, individual players that scout and maintain objectives will no longer feel as much integrated within a community.
    2. Guilds & alliance will have a stronger self-centric agenda, especially since they'll no longer feel affiliated to anyone else in the world community outside of their own alliance.
    3. Alliance leaderboard will not make this any better, it will only make it worse at the current state. Every alliance will farm their KDR at the expense of playing for points, and why would anyone risk death trying to hold an objective. Furthermore, any achievements on the 'point' category in the leaderboard will be ridiculed by others in the general community.

    I admit I don't have any magic solution, but unless we find some ways for people to care about winning, I really do not want to see this world restructuring, I don't want to see an interesting concept fail and becomes karma train.

    Anyone who has a solution, please share.

    ^^^^^ THIS

    No servers means WvW becomes one big karma train. No reason to roam and take camps. No reason to defend and good servers definitely do defend. Its where you get the best fights.

  • hunkamania.7561hunkamania.7561 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KokopellisFlute.5236 said:

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:
    I am not at all against the concept of world restructuring, but I still can't see how it will resolve one of the most crucial long standing issue of WvW - Care enough about winning to defend. While I'm sure there'll be great fights and rivalries between alliances, I really don't want to see the rest of WvW devolve into eotm karma train.

    In fact, I can see the lack of care become even worse with the new system:
    1. Many smaller, individual players that scout and maintain objectives will no longer feel as much integrated within a community.
    2. Guilds & alliance will have a stronger self-centric agenda, especially since they'll no longer feel affiliated to anyone else in the world community outside of their own alliance.
    3. Alliance leaderboard will not make this any better, it will only make it worse at the current state. Every alliance will farm their KDR at the expense of playing for points, and why would anyone risk death trying to hold an objective. Furthermore, any achievements on the 'point' category in the leaderboard will be ridiculed by others in the general community.

    I admit I don't have any magic solution, but unless we find some ways for people to care about winning, I really do not want to see this world restructuring, I don't want to see an interesting concept fail and becomes karma train.

    Anyone who has a solution, please share.

    ^^^^^ THIS

    No servers means WvW becomes one big karma train. No reason to roam and take camps. No reason to defend and good servers definitely do defend. Its where you get the best fights.

    There's no reason to do any of that stuff right now. If the servers become balanced you can actually have seasons where winning matters so you should be for a system like this.

    Ferguson's Crossing Server Leader

    WVW LEADER

    VR

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I know what WvW guild(s) is running during my playtime. I'm not part of their guild but I do roam and jump into the fray from time to time. Had it planned roughly since I know which guild/community to associates with to suit my playtime. That said, its still unclear if we need be part of the guild for the alliance? Or its sufficient to just select the guild/server I want to be linked with to be part if the alliance.

    Question for the players disagreeing to the idea of coverage are WvW players? Or WvW dailies runner? For those who plays WvW, I don't see the reason why reject the idea of getting "free transfer players" to form an alliance to strenghten numbers and better coverage for a competative gameplay. WvW is going to be World War.

    Spare me server etc. especially those who transfered, my condolences. As long as the reward for winning is worthwhile, no matter what server or difference is in the alliance, everyone will fight to the bitter last. Example but don't need to be, say a legendary part and trophy parts for a guild monument to the victor, even friends can be foe if they're part of the enemy's alliance.

    And untill the system is up and ready, everything will just be speculations and more speculations trying to reach a conjecture. Wasn't announced or given an estimation date which could me months for it to be ready.

  • @Eramonster.2718 said:
    And untill the system is up and ready, everything will just be speculations and more speculations trying to reach a conjecture. Wasn't announced or given an estimation date which could me months for it to be ready.

    Which is why we need solutions and ideas to solve our concerns before it is too late into the development process

    Power > Condition

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2018

    Will need more info before that. Questions like will it still be a three sided war? Do we need to join the guild/just declare associated with the particular guild/server? Rewards that is good enough make players raise their blades against same server/friendly guilds but under different alliance? Will the alliance continue every matchup? Will the enemy alliance be drafted randomly or matched? Etc. So many more questions.

    Without a proper layout of the plan, there's very little to work on. Eg. I'm briefed about what seems to be an atempt to build a floating castle/city in the sky. I will need more info before I start suggesting to stack the clouds or theories risk of clouds crumbling crushing earth. Untill a layout (say a space station) is handed, there's really nothing to work, only speculations.

  • ThunderPanda.1872ThunderPanda.1872 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2018

    @hunkamania.7561 said:
    When was there ever incentive to defend?

    If server pride / server community was never your thing (and that is perfectly fine) then none. But that is exactly the problem. We only relied on server/community attachment to care ever since the beginning. People always have soft spots for dedicated players who roams, maintains and call out attacks; and others always love guilds who appriciate and respond to them.

    If you're one of the people who insults people for calling out attacks on map chat, then you are just a toxic individual that is part of the problem

    You might think all server attachments are long gone, maybe it is on your server, but I can guarantee you that there are still many servers that love and fight in the name of their server (both identifying themselves as a guild on the server fighting in the name of the server, or a committed individual player of the server)

    But I'm not here to talk about server identity, I am here to talk about incentive to defend and care for your world, and unfortunately server identity was that only reason to care. I couldn't care less about the traditional server identity if we're given incentives to care about defending, structures and points. I like WvW as the whole package. Fighting all day in the middle of SM farming their kdr ignoring everything else gets old and boring fast.

    Power > Condition

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2018

    A battleground can hold up to 60? Possible more on EBG. And a rough figure cap given for an alliance is 500-1000, could be more. I don't think you need to worry unless the server overpopulates. Possible for a server to fit into the a cap even if every player rotates out every 2hours. The community is the guilds in the server, assuming we can form an alliance with ALL the guilds in the server, you can pretty much call the alliance (insert servers name here.)

    As for the technical part, its an update. We know what it's designed to do, but we can't troubleshoot untill we know better on how it operates.

  • Server pride leads you all into a false sense of security based off a virtual boundary that you yourself can't control. You are effectively having pride in something so fair beyond your control it's setting sail to fail. Instead have pride in your comrades and teams you've built and friends you've made playing this game because the friendships and bonds are less fickle and more prideful than any server name. The sense of Pride will never be lost with the destruction of servers. That thought is very illogical. Pride will move onto Alliances. Those who took pride within their server will now take pride within something that's more suited to take pride in and something that can be everlasting unlike the boundaries of servers. Never be afraid of change.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2018

    @KokopellisFlute.5236 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Game is not abut defend, it is about ktrain faster than the other 2 servers :D, reason structucres are easy to take under 1 minute when they are not upgraded.
    And talkign about defense, when keep are build in valeys of can be trebbed directly inner and outer from nearby hill... plz.... theres no defense, just gimmicks to cap.

    Game is ment to be easy and carry the lamers and pve'rs.

    No it's not. WvW is about great fights and the best fights come defending SMC and Keeps. Ktrain is boring. May as well go farm mats.

    well that is not hwat happens, saddly, i am all for the fights and i always play outmaned most of my time :(, sometimes getting ktrained by 2 servers...

    Hope the new WvW system will fix that, but IMO.... when we get similiar numbers, the other server tend bail out instead of fight... since they cant ktrain or need to put some slightly more effort to get paper strucutres.
    I feel alot of players with the new WvW system will abandon WvW since they cant ktrain lol... that is what happens or my exp when figthing other severs...
    ATM WvW is for Ktrain's not players who want some kewl larger scale figthing for objectives.

    MaLeVoLenT.8129, i completelly agree with u on that about the server pride, most of us, see server (NSP)has a guild/comunity cause we are always the same try harder on WvW since the begginig of the game, and that comunity can be maintained even if servers end, people only need to organize and kept together.

    Still the new WvW system has one thing that worries me.... the map design might be to much, to much strucutres,, maybe 2 or 2 decently sized map would be fine per match, would be greatif alliances could choose wich map layout coul dbe setted has their "homeland" tend in account some maps would variate tactics and theme.

    sorry about the bad english, still need the morning coffee.

  • I don't see why we should care less about alliances we forge ourselves than about servers full of random people.

  • I'm just going to put this out there, but who really cares about winning? I mean, I'm not stupid, I'm pretty sure a lot of people care about winning, but is it really that important? The whole reason I'm excited for this new system is that it is no longer going to be a permanent ladder system. Every 8 weeks we hit the reset button, get re-sorted into different worlds, yes guilds and alliances will travel together, but we will all be able to play with new people on a relatively regular basis. If your group wants to push hard and really try and get a high ranking spot, team up with others you meet, season after season, building up a fighting force to be reckoned with. Now it'll be easier than ever to come across either new players, or people who share your views. Without the stress of players having to "slow down, we don't want to leave T3" or "Better keep checking every 35 minutes to see if a spot on BG opened up" players and groups of players will be free to focus on playing world versus world THEIR way. Fly whatever flag you want to, stay loyal to your "old world" or embrace the new one every 2 months. I'm not sure what prizes will be handed out at the end of the season, but they could very well be worth the struggle to the top. The best part is it sounds like there will never be a guarantee who will actually win in the end. I think that being able to focus on your own guild, and alliance, playing your way and learning to work together and finding new people to play with is the best update we could hope for.

  • @Sarrs.4831 said:
    I pretty regularly see people saying that PPT is not an effective measure of score. With this in mind, I don't see what we're actually losing by potentially encouraging people not to PPT that much.

    That said, if these roles are necessary for competitive alliances to win, then those competitive alliances will need to either form scout guilds as members of their alliance or allow scouts into their own guilds. If they don't, then these roles were never important anyway... And truth be told I think the sentry/scout role is an artifact anyway.

    The sentry/scout "role" evolved as a check on big blob playing. It's part of the idea of playing with tactics and strategy , not a mindless running around Ktrain.

  • @ThunderPanda.1872 said:
    I am not at all against the concept of world restructuring, but I still can't see how it will resolve one of the most crucial long standing issue of WvW - Care enough about winning to defend. While I'm sure there'll be great fights and rivalries between alliances, I really don't want to see the rest of WvW devolve into eotm karma train.

    In fact, I can see the lack of care become even worse with the new system:
    1. Many smaller, individual players that scout and maintain objectives will no longer feel as much integrated within a community.
    2. Guilds & alliance will have a stronger self-centric agenda, especially since they'll no longer feel affiliated to anyone else in the world community outside of their own alliance.
    3. Alliance leaderboard will not make this any better, it will only make it worse at the current state. Every alliance will farm their KDR at the expense of playing for points, and why would anyone risk death trying to hold an objective. Furthermore, any achievements on the 'point' category in the leaderboard will only be ridiculed by others in the general community.

    I admit I don't have any magic solution, but unless we find some ways for people to care about winning, I really do not want to see this world restructuring, I don't want to see an interesting concept fail and becomes karma train.

    Anyone who has a solution, please share.

    I have to say that with the world linking those of us that are not on Host servers have been dealing with the above issues since linking started. We have no home world, we technically speaking have no reason to fight and defend... or do we? At least we worked with the Host for the period and felt like we were doing something.

    Frankly I don't really see a difference in the new guild/alliance setup. Instead of stacking servers people will now stack alliances. Huge alliances (bunches of large guilds all aligned with each other), will steamroll smaller ones, (just like the big servers do now). The difference in the new method is that it doesn't seem to me that there would be tiers or a need for them. Just alliance worlds fighting other alliance worlds basically. You will be able to switch alliances simply by changing which of your 5 guilds is your 'main' wvw guild and be moved to the new alliance when the new 'season' starts etc. Unless ANet has some way of controlling how and whether or not very large guilds can become allies then this is a very real possibility.

    The more I think about all of this the more I can see the possibility of people simply not playing anymore if the above scenario comes about.

    Just another WvW lifer who'll never say die... while dying again and again!

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @hunkamania.7561 said:
    When was there ever incentive to defend?

    If server pride / server community was never your thing (and that is perfectly fine) then none. But that is exactly the problem. We only relied on server/community attachment to care ever since the beginning. People always have soft spots for dedicated players who roams, maintains and call out attacks; and others always love guilds who appriciate and respond to them.

    If you're one of the people who insults people for calling out attacks on map chat, then you are just a toxic individual that is part of the problem

    You might think all server attachments are long gone, maybe it is on your server, but I can guarantee you that there are still many servers that love and fight in the name of their server (both identifying themselves as a guild on the server fighting in the name of the server, or a committed individual player of the server)

    But I'm not here to talk about server identity, I am here to talk about incentive to defend and care for your world, and unfortunately server identity was that only reason to care. I couldn't care less about the traditional server identity if we're given incentives to care about defending, structures and points. I like WvW as the whole package. Fighting all day in the middle of SM farming their kdr ignoring everything else gets old and boring fast.

    No you're talking about extrinsic incentives versus intrinsic incentives. Your basic premise is that the new system will remove what you believe to be the intrinsic incentive and thus necessitate an extrinsic incentive to get players to do the things they're already doing.

    Fighting all day in the middle of SMC ignoring everything else never gets old or boring to me. I hope that's what this new system is like; a 24/7 bag farm.

  • diamondgirl.6315diamondgirl.6315 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2018

    If you don't care about winning, absolutely nothing anyone else can do can force you to care about winning.

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