Game plan to keep players when CU launches? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Game plan to keep players when CU launches?

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  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    I see nothing wrong with a subscription model. After seeing how the gemshop turned out in GW2 I doubt I will ever start a new MMO that is not using a subscription model. "Microtransaction" based games can burn in hell

    The gem shop has nothing that adds to the game play.

    Going to a sub game because it would be expected to have more support is one thing. I just can't see an elective gen shop as being a reason to jump?

  • Aenaos.8160Aenaos.8160 Member ✭✭✭

    Still a long way to go till CU releases,op.
    But realistically,and if CU ends up achieving the technological goals it's set,it will be the game of choice for RvR.
    Anet should not try to compete with a dedicated RvR game head on,but rather focus on ease of access and a more casual experience.
    The focus here is PvE,and that's how it should stay.
    The sub won't be an issue.
    I don't mind buying a sub,and I guess the audience that's into this type of game won't mind paying for a sub either.
    And as a RvR enthusiast I certainly won't mind subscribing to a game that's is designed from the engine up specifically for the purpose of RvR.
    I can even look the other way on the many QoL hindrances.
    Not to mention that many features that seem as too restrictive,like realm exclusive classes,I find them to be great RPG elements
    that add depth to a game.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 20, 2018

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    I see nothing wrong with a subscription model. After seeing how the gemshop turned out in GW2 I doubt I will ever start a new MMO that is not using a subscription model. "Microtransaction" based games can burn in hell

    The gem shop has nothing that adds to the game play.

    Going to a sub game because it would be expected to have more support is one thing. I just can't see an elective gen shop as being a reason to jump?

    Game with focus on cosmetics having all the good cosmetics in the shop? How does that not affect the game? Even legendary armors look worse than the less than 10 Dollar Outfits. Same with all ~50 mount skins we have less than half a year after PoF release are gemstore only. Garbage system.
    The game just feels super unrewarding without statistical progression and all relevenat cosmetics coming from gemshop.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 20, 2018

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    I see nothing wrong with a subscription model. After seeing how the gemshop turned out in GW2 I doubt I will ever start a new MMO that is not using a subscription model. "Microtransaction" based games can burn in hell

    The gem shop has nothing that adds to the game play.

    Going to a sub game because it would be expected to have more support is one thing. I just can't see an elective gen shop as being a reason to jump?

    P2W is not the only issue with gem stores.

    In a sub model every player is of value, the incentive for the company is to put resources into all areas of an MMORPG to keep players happy and keep those subs rolling in, if you compare that to a F2P (or even B2P) where the cash shop is a major (or the major) source of revenue, then that incentive you have under a sub model decreases.

    Because with cash shops you have certain categories of players who make up a disproportionate amount of the spending such as new players, very casual players and "whales", so the incentive for where to put resources, decisions on how things are designed, etc becomes skewed towards these groups, which overall results in a lower quality game and player loss, but player loss matters less when it is for example veteran players who spend far less than these groups.

    Which is one of the reasons a 15 year old MMORPG is still the most successful and games like GW2 are also rans, and why the quality drops in most MMORPGs that go F2P from a sub model, even when they make more money than they did toward the end of the sub era (at least for a while) under F2P.

  • Ardenwolfe.8590Ardenwolfe.8590 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 20, 2018

    Thank you for posting this. Had no idea about Camelot Unchained, also have no love for it or that type of game anymore, but I do know some friends and family who loved Dark Age of Camelot. We'll see how this game plays out, but hype is nothing.

    Proof before praise.

    Edit: Here is a YouTube video with more information:

    No longer posting or playing.

  • So how many of you would continue playing WvW in unbalanced matchups if you also had to pay a sub?

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    I see nothing wrong with a subscription model. After seeing how the gemshop turned out in GW2 I doubt I will ever start a new MMO that is not using a subscription model. "Microtransaction" based games can burn in hell

    The gem shop has nothing that adds to the game play.

    Going to a sub game because it would be expected to have more support is one thing. I just can't see an elective gen shop as being a reason to jump?

    Game with focus on cosmetics having all the good cosmetics in the shop? How does that not affect the game? Even legendary armors look worse than the less than 10 Dollar Outfits. Same with all ~50 mount skins we have less than half a year after PoF release are gemstore only. Garbage system.
    The game just feels super unrewarding without statistical progression and all relevenat cosmetics coming from gemshop.

    I just don't see it. A sub is just not worthy. Not today. I'll play a game on a phone before that.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Anyone that would leave GW2 for for CU, has already made that choice,.Anet should instead focus on making the best game they can make, and not worry about what other games are out there.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @davidiven.9408 said:
    lol ash of creation, that game will be kitten in large scale pvp cuz of unreal engine 4

    Project TL(lineage remade) was using gw2 engine and they had to drop it and go for unreal4 engine as well.

    Maybe Ncsoft ask Arenanet to send some1 that is knowlegable with the engine to help them , and they refused :P
    The conversation i believe went something like this :
    You own the rights of the engine....but whatever idea we wanted to implant GW2 we had to cut it down to be implanted in other games first .
    Then some yelling and then some kisses and then Amazon shows up in with a whip ...:P

    project TL exist cause nscsoft and testers felt that lineage eternal failed, the gw2 engine was (is) limited to a damage 111 output gameplay nothing more, in terms of mechanics wise is a complete gutted game engine w/o much space for progression.
    Wich imo is was made nsoft ending eternal and start TL cause they wanted to make stuff that was not simple possible on gw2 engine.

    http://massivelyop.com/2017/08/08/lineage-eternal-delayed-again-guild-wars-2-mobile-game-teased/

    The article state it was first announced in 2011 (before GW2 was released) and had "focus tests" in 2015. The TL wiki state there was going to be a beta according to schedule in 2013, but it was delayed. All references I find state that it was using the Guild Wars engine, not the Guild Wars 2 engine. Using the original by then "mature" Guild wars engine when Anet arent gonna use it anymore matches with the original development time.

    So, did it actually use the vastly superior GW2 modification of the GW engine? Or did it use the old GW engine?

    Source pls cause now I am curious.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 20, 2018

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @davidiven.9408 said:
    lol ash of creation, that game will be kitten in large scale pvp cuz of unreal engine 4

    Project TL(lineage remade) was using gw2 engine and they had to drop it and go for unreal4 engine as well.

    Maybe Ncsoft ask Arenanet to send some1 that is knowlegable with the engine to help them , and they refused :P
    The conversation i believe went something like this :
    You own the rights of the engine....but whatever idea we wanted to implant GW2 we had to cut it down to be implanted in other games first .
    Then some yelling and then some kisses and then Amazon shows up in with a whip ...:P

    project TL exist cause nscsoft and testers felt that lineage eternal failed, the gw2 engine was (is) limited to a damage 111 output gameplay nothing more, in terms of mechanics wise is a complete gutted game engine w/o much space for progression.
    Wich imo is was made nsoft ending eternal and start TL cause they wanted to make stuff that was not simple possible on gw2 engine.

    http://massivelyop.com/2017/08/08/lineage-eternal-delayed-again-guild-wars-2-mobile-game-teased/

    The article state it was first announced in 2011 (before GW2 was released) and had "focus tests" in 2015. The TL wiki state there was going to be a beta according to schedule in 2013, but it was delayed. All references I find state that it was using the Guild Wars engine, not the Guild Wars 2 engine. Using the original by then "mature" Guild wars engine when Anet arent gonna use it anymore matches with the original development time.

    So, did it actually use the vastly superior GW2 modification of the GW engine? Or did it use the old GW engine?

    Source pls cause now I am curious.

    gw2 or gw1, it does not make much diference ^^ since gw2 is a fork of gw1 thas has been massivly tweaked over time, for theplayer the only big diference are the graphics
    the game engine limitations are still imposed in its sucessor.

    Humm this might be the engine that Anet took base to develop gw2 into still not fully the gw2 tweaked fork version.

    ()lol u can knock off mobs, on gw2 mobs knock u off while they are invunerable to be knocked of the map.....

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    I see nothing wrong with a subscription model. 10-15 dollars a month will not break anyone's bank (at least not from people who can afford a gaming pc). After seeing how the gemshop turned out in GW2 I doubt I will ever start a new MMO that is not using a subscription model. "Microtransaction" based games can burn in hell

    What?... Nothing in the gem store is required nor an improvement to actual gameplay. It has extremely minimal convenience items to buy (bag slots, storage expansion, gathering tools) and the rest is stuff to make your character look neat -which by the way, nobody but you will be looking at your character unless you specifically ask them to. I'm genuinely curious as to what you think the gem store did or currently does that inhibits or even remotely changes your or anyone else's playstyle...

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 20, 2018

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Anyone that would leave GW2 for for CU, has already made that choice,.Anet should instead focus on making the best game they can make, and not worry about what other games are out there.

    gw2 is the "hello kitty "version of the mmo's and they never care much about competition since they only want pve players, raeson it is a heavy gimmick gameplay to low skilled playerd that is what the true target of players is.

    @Dawdler.8521
    http://www.enewstoday.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=1093271 /lol
    It looks lineage wont come to mobile, article tells shows in a way that gw engine is more suited for mobile than unreal ...whut?

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Anyone that would leave GW2 for for CU, has already made that choice,.Anet should instead focus on making the best game they can make, and not worry about what other games are out there.

    Not true, may the best offering win.
    Neither is a finished product

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • If Mark's learned from the mistakes and success of DAoC, my favorite MMO of all time, then yes CU will take some of the WvW population with it. That is unavoidable. Most people in GW2 would hate DAoC RvR anyway as DAoC used asymmetrical balance. CU looks to be using that system as well.

    Love the cc song lol.
    You get a mezz, and you get a mezz, everybody gets a mezz. (kitten bards lol).

    Still, it has to be different enough from GW2 to take anybody. Nothing is certain until people actually get to play the game find out what makes it different.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2018

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @davidiven.9408 said:
    lol ash of creation, that game will be kitten in large scale pvp cuz of unreal engine 4

    Project TL(lineage remade) was using gw2 engine and they had to drop it and go for unreal4 engine as well.

    Maybe Ncsoft ask Arenanet to send some1 that is knowlegable with the engine to help them , and they refused :P
    The conversation i believe went something like this :
    You own the rights of the engine....but whatever idea we wanted to implant GW2 we had to cut it down to be implanted in other games first .
    Then some yelling and then some kisses and then Amazon shows up in with a whip ...:P

    project TL exist cause nscsoft and testers felt that lineage eternal failed, the gw2 engine was (is) limited to a damage 111 output gameplay nothing more, in terms of mechanics wise is a complete gutted game engine w/o much space for progression.
    Wich imo is was made nsoft ending eternal and start TL cause they wanted to make stuff that was not simple possible on gw2 engine.

    http://massivelyop.com/2017/08/08/lineage-eternal-delayed-again-guild-wars-2-mobile-game-teased/

    The article state it was first announced in 2011 (before GW2 was released) and had "focus tests" in 2015. The TL wiki state there was going to be a beta according to schedule in 2013, but it was delayed. All references I find state that it was using the Guild Wars engine, not the Guild Wars 2 engine. Using the original by then "mature" Guild wars engine when Anet arent gonna use it anymore matches with the original development time.

    So, did it actually use the vastly superior GW2 modification of the GW engine? Or did it use the old GW engine?

    Source pls cause now I am curious.

    gw2 or gw1, it does not make much diference ^^ since gw2 is a fork of gw1 thas has been massivly tweaked over time, for theplayer the only big diference are the graphics
    the game engine limitations are still imposed in its sucessor.

    Humm this might be the engine that Anet took base to develop gw2 into still not fully the gw2 tweaked fork version.

    ()lol u can knock off mobs, on gw2 mobs knock u off while they are invunerable to be knocked of the map.....

    It makes a huge difference when you decide to put the blaim on GW2, since GW2 would have nothing to do with it if it was the GW engine. Anet was more than capable to tweak the GW engine for their GW2 needs. That developer obviously couldnt or didnt want recode the GW engine. Choosing another engine is understandable. If you already knew this, why not say GW1?

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2018

    @Fuel.3285 said:
    If Mark's learned from the mistakes and success of DAoC, my favorite MMO of all time, then yes CU will take some of the WvW population with it. That is unavoidable. Most people in GW2 would hate DAoC RvR anyway as DAoC used asymmetrical balance. CU looks to be using that system as well.

    Love the cc song lol.
    You get a mezz, and you get a mezz, everybody gets a mezz. (kitten bards lol).

    Still, it has to be different enough from GW2 to take anybody. Nothing is certain until people actually get to play the game find out what makes it different.

    Even most of the people who did enjoy DAoC RvR would not enjoy DAoC RvR right now after playing GW2 WvW. Otherwise they'd be playing right now. But It's more convenient for them to romanticize the past when in reality, as much fun as we all had when DAoC was relevant - it's balance was utter garbage. 1HKO from archer-class Crit-Shots or assassin-class PA's. Mez/PBAoE meta. Heal-classes simply spamming group-heal until someone notices (wow, much skill, so fun).

    But it's fun to reminisce and bask in the nostalgia with those rose-tinted glasses.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2018

    @Dawdler.8521, both games have same engine, gw2 is still made on guildwars engine, and using guildwars engine does not means it is gw1 engine as well, but the base for wich gw2 was developed.
    This is how ic it.

    OH and tweaked engine or not even gw2 is extremelly limited in mechanics :\ it might be a burden for the dev's to do anything besides damage in, damage out in this game.

    (EDIT)they cant even fix spirit weapons :}

  • 1... Its not even out in the real world to achieve what it says

    2... (speculative guess) - like every other MMO it will be ping hell when it tries to do what it claimed in its promo and every one will rage

  • Ansau.7326Ansau.7326 Member ✭✭✭

    Oh my... people still have hopes for this game lol

    Let's be real, CU so far has been nothing more than a disappointment of delays and empty promises. And now people are excited because they announced a date of the beta they promised in 2016, and it's not a definitive date because they open it to further delays...

    But that's not the worst, the have to explain what they understand for a beta. Looking at the content they have showed in the past year, they are at a pre-alpha stage at best. You cannot be seriously talking about a beta in a forecast of less than half a year when you are still developing pre-rendered character animations and world objects...

    CU 5 months before estimated first beta:

    Gw2 7 months before first beta:

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think GW2 will be around for a while - to me it's like a staple in wvw modes, like how tf2 and cs have been around for so long even with other fps games out. Even if other games could potentially improve on the formula I can never get the feeling of combat/movement mechanics like I do here. Similarly Warframe has movement and combat mechanics that I love and I haven't gotten the same fluidity from many other games of the same genre either. Right now my main issue with GW2 is lag - I'm going to be dead no matter what, so any kind of balance is down the drain in any case. I can even live with the current balancing between classes if I can just enjoy the game lag free, I would be able to adapt. GW2 to me is a very special case, because you can return to 3 game modes anytime you want. If one takes a break and there are many changes, I would feel actually refreshed because I like figuring new builds and how to defeat new stuff that pops up. I do get angry sometimes with the choices the devs make but all in all I hope they keep working on GW2 and make it one of the longest mmo's around. To have a healthy game we need to keep both players and devs happy. My wish is for wvw to keep improving and not driving devs insane in the process because that will all come snowballing back to us :P

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the only threat to WvW Gw2, would be a clone of him, without the graphic problems of big blobs fights it has.

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2018

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    @Dawdler.8521, both games have same engine, gw2 is still made on guildwars engine, and using guildwars engine does not means it is gw1 engine as well, but the base for wich gw2 was developed.
    This is how ic it.

    OH and tweaked engine or not even gw2 is extremelly limited in mechanics :\ it might be a burden for the dev's to do anything besides damage in, damage out in this game.

    (EDIT)they cant even fix spirit weapons :}

    Not sure what part of "modified engine" is hard to understand. The GW2 engine is not the same as the GW engine. By your logic the Quake engine in original Half-Life (or Quake 1) match the Source engine in Half-Life 2 and shares all it's limitations because it's the same basic engine.

    Is it the same though? Really?

    GW2 is an incredibly flexible engine which Anet has proved again and again over the years - there is a reason why it still feels like a modern game rather than something released a decade ago. It's as far from "damage in damage out" as it gets. WvW is still unmatched on the scale and detail of PvP. There's been newer games that are very simple in comparison (and in my experience every time they've tried 100+ man open world warfare, it's been practicly unplayable with warping and rubberbanding all over the place. Archeage, ESO, etc).

  • morrolan.9608morrolan.9608 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    @Dawdler.8521, both games have same engine, gw2 is still made on guildwars engine, and using guildwars engine does not means it is gw1 engine as well, but the base for wich gw2 was developed.
    This is how ic it.

    OH and tweaked engine or not even gw2 is extremelly limited in mechanics :\ it might be a burden for the dev's to do anything besides damage in, damage out in this game.

    (EDIT)they cant even fix spirit weapons :}

    Not sure what part of "modified engine" is hard to understand. The GW2 engine is not the same as the GW engine. By your logic the Quake engine in original Half-Life (or Quake 1) match the Source engine in Half-Life 2 and shares all it's limitations because it's the same basic engine.

    Is it the same though? Really?

    GW2 is an incredibly flexible engine which Anet has proved again and again over the years - there is a reason why it still feels like a modern game rather than something released a decade ago. It's as far from "damage in damage out" as it gets. WvW is still unmatched on the scale and detail of PvP. There's been newer games that are very simple in comparison (and in my experience every time they've tried 100+ man open world warfare, it's been practicly unplayable with warping and rubberbanding all over the place. Archeage, ESO, etc).

    1. It is a modified GW1 engine, not exactly the same engine but not new and this holds it back, if you do a comparison with any modern engine its obvious.
    2. How is it flexible? The engine is more responsive than others yes but thats all.
    3. The reason WvW performs slightly better than ESO (but still not well) is that they broke WvW up into 4 battlegrounds whereas ESO is all on 1 map. If WvW was all on 1 map I guarantee it would perform worse than ESO. However in terms of design only having 1 map is vastly preferable.
  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fuel.3285 said:
    If Mark's learned from the mistakes and success of DAoC,

    He's learned nothing.
    As much as I believe he wants to make a great game, as much as I want him to make that game.. The reality is he flies too close to the sun again and again. I hear over 100 classes at launch and I cringe.

    The man needs someone to tell him when to stop. Instead he has people throwing money at him and begging for more.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2018

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    @Dawdler.8521, both games have same engine, gw2 is still made on guildwars engine, and using guildwars engine does not means it is gw1 engine as well, but the base for wich gw2 was developed.
    This is how ic it.

    OH and tweaked engine or not even gw2 is extremelly limited in mechanics :\ it might be a burden for the dev's to do anything besides damage in, damage out in this game.

    (EDIT)they cant even fix spirit weapons :}

    Not sure what part of "modified engine" is hard to understand. The GW2 engine is not the same as the GW engine. By your logic the Quake engine in original Half-Life (or Quake 1) match the Source engine in Half-Life 2 and shares all it's limitations because it's the same basic engine.

    Is it the same though? Really?

    GW2 is an incredibly flexible engine which Anet has proved again and again over the years - there is a reason why it still feels like a modern game rather than something released a decade ago. It's as far from "damage in damage out" as it gets. WvW is still unmatched on the scale and detail of PvP. There's been newer games that are very simple in comparison (and in my experience every time they've tried 100+ man open world warfare, it's been practicly unplayable with warping and rubberbanding all over the place. Archeage, ESO, etc).

    What kind of comparisons are those???
    Guildwars is the game engine name for both gw1 and gw2 are built... what are u talking about a valve engine with quake one, that is a diferent history, that is taking part of what works well into another project, just like MS stole the code from NetBSd into WinNT netcode...
    GW2 Guildwars engine is probably a "overtweaked" version of its precursor and not and 100% fully diferent project.

    What i ment is that the LN was not using the core core of the 2004 Gw engine that would be the most dumb thing to do...but using already the base version prepared or possible some forked versions wich was being prepared for gw2 as well, it might be even the guildwards engine version wich took base to build gw2 in.
    Wich in fact some interview (IMO might be wrong) cause they talk since gw engine was dropped the mobile version was canceled, IMO is kinda hilarious, i doubt gw engine would perform well on arm device, due how power hunger the product ends.

    Still SpamWars2 engine is not that versatille as u m8 think it is, and this is something that is where Anet is extremelly limited their design classes to "carry" players every expantion and reason why balance is so bad and delayed to take in action cause they can only improve classes damge at most, mounts were an extra and limited adition, u can only use them in some controlled envitoment wich got confined by the game design itself wich in a way has it's own expansion a bit confined due the amount of work dev's need to implement some new features.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2018

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Guildwars is the game engine name for both gw1 and gw2 are built... what are u talking about a valve engine with quake one, that is a diferent history, that is taking part of what works well into another project, just like MS stole the code from NetBSd into WinNT netcode...
    GW2 Guildwars engine is probably a "overtweaked" version of its precursor and not and 100% fully diferent project.

    Neither is Source, its still based on the old Quake Engine. What percentages used are sematics - its still a changed/tweaked/modified engine. How much different do you need? This is the wiki description btw:

    Guild Wars 2 uses a heavily modified Guild Wars game engine which includes support for true 3D environments, more detailed environments and models, better lighting and shadows, new animation and effects systems, plus new audio and cinematics engines and a more flexible combat and skill-casting system.[6] It uses Havok to provide destructible environment and ragdoll animation of creatures[7] and Umbra's occlusion culling technology.[8]

    What I meant was someone should provide evidence that GW2 engine was used, rather than the old and limited GW engine. You keep saying that the GW2 engine was used but dont back it up. The timeline still matches with using a mature GW engine when GW no longer gonna be supported by Anet (hence no need to keep the engine), not the new GW2 engine. And so far, the information state the GW engine with no references to GW2. If I see an article, an interview or whatever saying that the project used the new GW2 modified engine rather than the GW engine, fine! Matter settled.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2018

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    there is a reason why it still feels like a modern game rather than something released a decade ago. It's as far from "damage in damage out" as it gets. WvW is still unmatched on the scale and detail of PvP. There's been newer games that are very simple in comparison (and in my experience every time they've tried 100+ man open world warfare, it's been practicly unplayable with warping and rubberbanding all over the place. Archeage, ESO, etc).

    Except I hear the same thing in most MMORPGs, take ESO as you mention that, there are people in that who proclaim it has the best combat in any MMORPG and that a game like GW2 is old fashioned because it is tab-targeted with cooldowns, etc, basically that GW2 is not really proper action combat, just a glorified tab targeted system with blocks/dodges added on.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2018

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    there is a reason why it still feels like a modern game rather than something released a decade ago. It's as far from "damage in damage out" as it gets. WvW is still unmatched on the scale and detail of PvP. There's been newer games that are very simple in comparison (and in my experience every time they've tried 100+ man open world warfare, it's been practicly unplayable with warping and rubberbanding all over the place. Archeage, ESO, etc).

    Except I hear the same thing in most MMORPGs, take ESO as you mention that, there are people in that who proclaim it has the best combat in any MMORPG and that a game like GW2 is old fashioned because it is tab-targeted with cooldowns, etc, basically that GW2 is not really proper action combat, just a glorified tab targeted system with blocks/dodges added on.

    There are skills with and without cooldowns in GW2 on classes with resource management or a combination thereof (using several different mechanics unique to classes). To say that it's a glorified tab targeted system is ridiculous with many either AoE or hitting what's in front of you - not necessarily what's targetted. Same with most ranged skills as they are mostly physical projectiles that can be body blocked (with some exceptions like the mesmer gs autoattack or scepter 3 which are beams hitting everything in it's path until target). It was also a long time ago since Anet added the action camera which shoot where you aim. You could say... it's flexible? I dont know.

    Unlike some games that just give you like... mana and differect effects on skills.

    Sometimes I wonder if people have played GW2 but if they can write here I suppose so :/

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    there is a reason why it still feels like a modern game rather than something released a decade ago. It's as far from "damage in damage out" as it gets. WvW is still unmatched on the scale and detail of PvP. There's been newer games that are very simple in comparison (and in my experience every time they've tried 100+ man open world warfare, it's been practicly unplayable with warping and rubberbanding all over the place. Archeage, ESO, etc).

    Except I hear the same thing in most MMORPGs, take ESO as you mention that, there are people in that who proclaim it has the best combat in any MMORPG and that a game like GW2 is old fashioned because it is tab-targeted with cooldowns, etc, basically that GW2 is not really proper action combat, just a glorified tab targeted system with blocks/dodges added on.

    Sometimes I wonder if people have played GW2 but if they can write here I suppose so :/

    It only shows they have bought the game.... :cookie:

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2018

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    there is a reason why it still feels like a modern game rather than something released a decade ago. It's as far from "damage in damage out" as it gets. WvW is still unmatched on the scale and detail of PvP. There's been newer games that are very simple in comparison (and in my experience every time they've tried 100+ man open world warfare, it's been practicly unplayable with warping and rubberbanding all over the place. Archeage, ESO, etc).

    Except I hear the same thing in most MMORPGs, take ESO as you mention that, there are people in that who proclaim it has the best combat in any MMORPG and that a game like GW2 is old fashioned because it is tab-targeted with cooldowns, etc, basically that GW2 is not really proper action combat, just a glorified tab targeted system with blocks/dodges added on.

    There are skills with and without cooldowns in GW2 on classes with resource management or a combination thereof (using several different mechanics unique to classes). To say that it's a glorified tab targeted system is ridiculous with many either AoE or hitting what's in front of you - not necessarily what's targetted. Same with most ranged skills as they are mostly physical projectiles that can be body blocked (with some exceptions like the mesmer gs autoattack or scepter 3 which are beams hitting everything in it's path until target). It was also a long time ago since Anet added the action camera which shoot where you aim. You could say... it's flexible? I dont know.

    Unlike some games that just give you like... mana and differect effects on skills.

    Sometimes I wonder if people have played GW2 but if they can write here I suppose so :/

    The vast majority of skills in GW2 have cooldowns, the game is tab targeted, these are facts, which means many skills in this game are aimed for you, that some skills like most AOEs aren't, does not change that, resource management is common in tab targeted MMOs (and frankly until more recently this game had very little resource management and even what there is now it is rather simplistic / one dimensional), the action cam is irrelevant because its purely optional and not used by the vast majority of the playerbase. (but yes as the name suggests that would make the GW2 combat far more actually like real action based combat than it is).

    And yes body blocking is an addition just like dodges, active block, etc to what traditional tab targeted MMOs typically have and make the game more "actiony" but that then that isn't enough to alter the view of people who look at the combat in GW2 as a sort of 'halfway house' between a traditional tab targeted game and a game with real action combat (as you don't seem to like my 'glorified' description).

    Sometimes I wonder if people have played GW2 but if they can write here I suppose so :/

    I'm just reasonably objective, which is something often lacking from people who are too attached to a video game. ;)

  • @Norbe.7630 said:
    What is camelot unchain?
    that a movie or somethin?

    if you're gonna scare anet make sure you have a real iphone killer, not a No Man’s Sky flop

    heres a progressive RvR

    Please....another horrible korean game. Koreans are just bad at developing anything.
    Published by Kakao.
    If you have a look at BDO forums, you will really prefer to stay away from this game too.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2018

    @Bigsexy.8302 said:

    @Norbe.7630 said:
    What is camelot unchain?
    that a movie or somethin?

    if you're gonna scare anet make sure you have a real iphone killer, not a No Man’s Sky flop

    heres a progressive RvR

    Please....another horrible korean game. Koreans are just bad at developing anything.
    Published by Kakao.
    If you have a look at BDO forums, you will really prefer to stay away from this game too.

    They always had tons of mechnanic with is a good thing, but they are awfull at workign on them, most ends quite a bit clunky stuff. BDO might be the 1st sandbox that does almost everything a little better but stilll the bug fixeing was dammn awfull just like anet and sw is..... when i stoped played that we were using invunerable wizards in pvp.... cause u could set players to invunerable... just tick the square.

    Sandbox mmo's are still something somewhat experimental, the next gen of sandbox's will be a bit better some might even surprise.

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    there is a reason why it still feels like a modern game rather than something released a decade ago. It's as far from "damage in damage out" as it gets. WvW is still unmatched on the scale and detail of PvP. There's been newer games that are very simple in comparison (and in my experience every time they've tried 100+ man open world warfare, it's been practicly unplayable with warping and rubberbanding all over the place. Archeage, ESO, etc).

    Except I hear the same thing in most MMORPGs, take ESO as you mention that, there are people in that who proclaim it has the best combat in any MMORPG and that a game like GW2 is old fashioned because it is tab-targeted with cooldowns, etc, basically that GW2 is not really proper action combat, just a glorified tab targeted system with blocks/dodges added on.

    There are skills with and without cooldowns in GW2 on classes with resource management or a combination thereof (using several different mechanics unique to classes). To say that it's a glorified tab targeted system is ridiculous with many either AoE or hitting what's in front of you - not necessarily what's targetted. Same with most ranged skills as they are mostly physical projectiles that can be body blocked (with some exceptions like the mesmer gs autoattack or scepter 3 which are beams hitting everything in it's path until target). It was also a long time ago since Anet added the action camera which shoot where you aim. You could say... it's flexible? I dont know.

    Unlike some games that just give you like... mana and differect effects on skills.

    Sometimes I wonder if people have played GW2 but if they can write here I suppose so :/

    The vast majority of skills in GW2 have cooldowns, the game is tab targeted, these are facts, which means many skills in this game are aimed for you, that some skills like most AOEs aren't, does not change that, resource management is common in tab targeted MMOs (and frankly until more recently this game had very little resource management and even what there is now it is rather simplistic / one dimensional), the action cam is irrelevant because its purely optional and not used by the vast majority of the playerbase. (but yes as the name suggests that would make the GW2 combat far more actually like real action based combat than it is).

    And yes body blocking is an addition just like dodges, active block, etc to what traditional tab targeted MMOs typically have and make the game more "actiony" but that then that isn't enough to alter the view of people who look at the combat in GW2 as a sort of 'halfway house' between a traditional tab targeted game and a game with real action combat (as you don't seem to like my 'glorified' description).

    Sometimes I wonder if people have played GW2 but if they can write here I suppose so :/

    I'm just reasonably objective, which is something often lacking from people who are too attached to a video game. ;)

    Well fully non tab targetting would be a mistake, still i think rangers should have a aim inteast of select target to hit lol ::) but at the end.. just look a the population target of this game, btw melee skills aka cleaves.. dont need tab select, so the game is not that much tab targeting, besides some skill mechanics that are limitied to 1 target like JI, DH f1, every range auto , theres still some sselect target on some skills cause it would be a pain for most to have everything fully non target able.

    .. i would love if 90%+ of the game would have no target needed lol just aim and timing.... with exception teleport skills like JI's and alikes.

  • Norbe.7630Norbe.7630 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bigsexy.8302 said:

    Please....another horrible korean game. Koreans are just bad at developing anything.

    okay

    Why So Serious?

  • Bigsexy.8302Bigsexy.8302 Member ✭✭
    edited February 24, 2018

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Bigsexy.8302 said:

    @Norbe.7630 said:
    What is camelot unchain?
    that a movie or somethin?

    if you're gonna scare anet make sure you have a real iphone killer, not a No Man’s Sky flop

    heres a progressive RvR

    Please....another horrible korean game. Koreans are just bad at developing anything.
    Published by Kakao.
    If you have a look at BDO forums, you will really prefer to stay away from this game too.

    They always had tons of mechnanic with is a good thing, but they are awfull at workign on them, most ends quite a bit clunky stuff. BDO might be the 1st sandbox that does almost everything a little better but stilll the bug fixeing was dammn awfull just like anet and sw is..... when i stoped played that we were using invunerable wizards in pvp.... cause u could set players to invunerable... just tick the square.

    Sandbox mmo's are still something somewhat experimental, the next gen of sandbox's will be a bit better some might even surprise.

    BDO is not really a sandbox, let alone pvp sandbox. It's pretty much online singleplayer game with some pvp options. Although I'm playing it since release for whatever reason.
    But for real, if you look at the forums, it's nothing but pages after pages of complains. Communication, over-priced items, p2w, lies, incompetent staff members and everything, so get ready to experience this in Ascent: Infinite Realm.
    So on one side, you have one of the worst publishers I've seen, and then you have the devs of PUBG and TERA that really haven't heard of the word "optimization" and "balance".
    Sandboxes have been here for 15+ years. Hardly experimental. EvE Online is the only real sandbox though.

    @Norbe.7630 said:

    @Bigsexy.8302 said:

    Please....another horrible korean game. Koreans are just bad at developing anything.

    okay

    And? What is your point? EU/NA has clueless devs too but nothing even close to East Asia.
    The only memorable asian mmo is Lineage.

  • wanya.1697wanya.1697 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2018

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    Well fully non tab targetting would be a mistake, still i think rangers should have a aim inteast of select target to hit lol ::)

    with Action Combat Camera Ranger can use bows and hit like in a shooter with crosshair no need to tabtarget on projectile weapons

    overall I don´t think that we have to worry much about gw2 wvw in the near future although the balancing is not optimal
    and skilllag and visual noise in bigger fights are problematic there still has to been found an mmo with such an engaging combat system like we got here

  • Vegeta.2563Vegeta.2563 Member ✭✭✭

    As someone that spent 12 years in DAoC .. if CU is anything like DAoC in anyway in term's of RvR .. and if CU's combat is some how better than GW2 (especially if they add dodge mechanic) .. then no doubt in my mind we'll see a lot of WvW Players going to CU. At least to try it out, maybe half come back, half stay. Too soon to tell though.

    The thing I loved about DAoC was the fact that you needed to work with your group in terms of fights. You had to rely on your healers, certain classes for crowd control, and tanks for melee and interrupting casters (if you got hit in combat you cant cast a spell so you had to kite).

    However the main thing I am not a fan of is Subscription based games, but that won't stop a lot of people that are willing to pay $15 a month.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2018

    @wanya.1697 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    Well fully non tab targetting would be a mistake, still i think rangers should have a aim inteast of select target to hit lol ::)

    with Action Combat Camera Ranger can use bows and hit like in a shooter with crosshair no need to tabtarget on projectile weapons

    overall I don´t think that we have to worry much about gw2 wvw in the near future although the balancing is not optimal
    and skilllag and visual noise in bigger fights are problematic there still has to been found an mmo with such an engaging combat system like we got here

    That is not how combat camera do, it just auto selects and unselects, just aim near the mob and it will work like tab select, tdlr you are selecting/unslecting target with the crosshair just like if u tab targetted the mob press keys and damage will go straith w/o miss.
    On shooters u will miss if you cant aim.

    And this is actually a great way and imo every range weapons should use this...this should be the native way to play them since this is a game with tab targeting at range.

    @Bigsexy.8302 good point on saying BDO is not a fully sanbox game.

  • Norbe.7630Norbe.7630 Member ✭✭✭

    the queue system on battlefield got regulars and premium account, the ones that have premium account gets the priority
    why not make ques prioritize paid account to free accounts

    Why So Serious?

  • Crowdfall, CU, Ascent Infinite Realm, Project TL all will be GW2 competitors. Current WvW is like for casual players who comes in for 1 hr to afk in the tower or get run over by blob and back to pve. Anet need to step up and make WvW competitive like give out real reward, real rank ability, player tower/keep/city, relic raid. queue system.

  • FASTCAR.7831FASTCAR.7831 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2018

    Played DAOC 5 years. best pvp/wve EVER...by far.
    Heck ,my guild is named DAOC

    GW2 refuses to fix broken stuff, has added no new classes.

    Midgard 4 Life.

    When CU comes out, GW2 pop will instantly drop 75%

    LEGENDARY FASTCAR
    YOUTUBE BOOSTEDLASER

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @wanya.1697 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    Well fully non tab targetting would be a mistake, still i think rangers should have a aim inteast of select target to hit lol ::)

    with Action Combat Camera Ranger can use bows and hit like in a shooter with crosshair no need to tabtarget on projectile weapons

    overall I don´t think that we have to worry much about gw2 wvw in the near future although the balancing is not optimal
    and skilllag and visual noise in bigger fights are problematic there still has to been found an mmo with such an engaging combat system like we got here

    That is not how combat camera do, it just auto selects and unselects, just aim near the mob and it will work like tab select, tdlr you are selecting/unslecting target with the crosshair just like if u tab targetted the mob press keys and damage will go straith w/o miss.
    On shooters u will miss if you cant aim.

    And this is actually a great way and imo every range weapons should use this...this should be the native way to play them since this is a game with tab targeting at range.

    @Bigsexy.8302 good point on saying BDO is not a fully sanbox game.

    Not totally; ranged weapons with action camera will shoot at the crosshair like an FPS and prioritize a target if it's within the crosshairs.

    Action camera ranged-attackers can attack stealthed targets this way without needing to start hitting them prior to entering stealth, which normal-camera cannot.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ok, full disclosure, I back GW2 via Gem sales, am a backer of CU since kickstarter and a backer of Ashes of Creation which also is RvR styled. The system that GW is planning for the wold restructuring should handle the population fluctuations and should adjust as needed keeping people with others to fight. If it needs 12 worlds this period then 9 next then 15 the one after it should be able to adjust and keep worlds full if the math is correct. So in that essence I think what they are designing should make it so people won't really notice people trying other things, unless a full alliance moves games, but that should be corrected for during the next restructure.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/CU/AoC

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @wanya.1697 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    Well fully non tab targetting would be a mistake, still i think rangers should have a aim inteast of select target to hit lol ::)

    with Action Combat Camera Ranger can use bows and hit like in a shooter with crosshair no need to tabtarget on projectile weapons

    overall I don´t think that we have to worry much about gw2 wvw in the near future although the balancing is not optimal
    and skilllag and visual noise in bigger fights are problematic there still has to been found an mmo with such an engaging combat system like we got here

    That is not how combat camera do, it just auto selects and unselects, just aim near the mob and it will work like tab select, tdlr you are selecting/unslecting target with the crosshair just like if u tab targetted the mob press keys and damage will go straith w/o miss.
    On shooters u will miss if you cant aim.

    And this is actually a great way and imo every range weapons should use this...this should be the native way to play them since this is a game with tab targeting at range.

    @Bigsexy.8302 good point on saying BDO is not a fully sanbox game.

    Not totally; ranged weapons with action camera will shoot at the crosshair like an FPS and prioritize a target if it's within the crosshairs.

    Action camera ranged-attackers can attack stealthed targets this way without needing to start hitting them prior to entering stealth, which normal-camera cannot.

    Thanks, I never knew this since I don't use action camera.

  • @LetoII.3782 said:
    If you think gw2 has balance issues, you should see a Mark Jacobs game at launch.

    Yeah, was going to comment that after spending over a good decade playing DAOC I have little faith in anything Mark Jacobs is over seeing. Will definitely have to take a "prove it to me" approach with CU when it actually launches for real. Until then it's nothing but hype.

  • Wolfric.9380Wolfric.9380 Member ✭✭✭

    I also come from DAOC and it was realy good. Except that it got out of hands trying to give more and more to veterans. I greatly dislike constant power creep and grind.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bigsexy.8302 said:

    The only memorable asian mmo is Lineage.

    You must not have very much knowledge of popular games developed in different regions. Final Fantasy 11 and 14 were a(nd still are) insanely popular. I think 14 currently has more active players than GW2. I personally didn't care for either, but the data doesn't lie about general public reception and enjoyment...

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Why are people focusing on CU? From what I have seen the devolpment progress of camelot unchained is very slow. If people want to worry about pop. numbers, then look at mmos that are closer to completion, like CF or the other kickstarter sandboxes.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 26, 2018

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @wanya.1697 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    Well fully non tab targetting would be a mistake, still i think rangers should have a aim inteast of select target to hit lol ::)

    with Action Combat Camera Ranger can use bows and hit like in a shooter with crosshair no need to tabtarget on projectile weapons

    overall I don´t think that we have to worry much about gw2 wvw in the near future although the balancing is not optimal
    and skilllag and visual noise in bigger fights are problematic there still has to been found an mmo with such an engaging combat system like we got here

    That is not how combat camera do, it just auto selects and unselects, just aim near the mob and it will work like tab select, tdlr you are selecting/unslecting target with the crosshair just like if u tab targetted the mob press keys and damage will go straith w/o miss.
    On shooters u will miss if you cant aim.

    And this is actually a great way and imo every range weapons should use this...this should be the native way to play them since this is a game with tab targeting at range.

    @Bigsexy.8302 good point on saying BDO is not a fully sanbox game.

    Not totally; ranged weapons with action camera will shoot at the crosshair like an FPS and prioritize a target if it's within the crosshairs.

    Action camera ranged-attackers can attack stealthed targets this way without needing to start hitting them prior to entering stealth, which normal-camera cannot.

    Good point on the stealthed units, still when cross/aim get's on the target it will be selected like tab does and thus skill will be direct.

    I think i found a video where he talks of what im saying , arround min 4.50, he shows how aim will auto correct (it felt that on some mobs the hitbox is bigger and thus will damage the mob w/o being actually aiming at it, since this isnt a pure fps hitboxes are treated diferently) and while not aiming decently the mob it will auto correct itself and work like mob was target via the old mode, reason i say it isnt a like a fps, just some flavour, still i always felt action camera should be forced to every one,m the tab select and press buton to make damage is to bad lol.

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