Fractal Random Mistlock Instabilities - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Fractal Random Mistlock Instabilities

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  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Grinding daily recc for pages=the better fractal player. No offense just found it funny.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Calibria.6489 said:
    Oh well, keep telling yourself that, lets see who is at fgod first ;)

    I only need some more fractal relics for that, just sayin...

    And if you refuse swapping utilities you're not the kind of player I want to meet regularly on my daily CM + T4 routine. Additionally, since the old instabilities haven't had any impact on the meta, the announced change won't have it as well because the actual instabilities aren't that dangerous so you have to bring another build/gear or class. The change will most likely only have an influence on inexperienced players, for example Last Laugh was a pain in the xxx for inexperienced pugs in Cliffside so it got removed. Every decent group had 0 issues with that level.

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Grinding daily recc for pages=the better fractal player. No offense just found it funny.

    That was a good one. +1 from me ^^

  • NeroBoron.7285NeroBoron.7285 Member ✭✭✭

    Some more variation should be nice :+1:

    Do you plan loot updates for doing fractal dailies? Compared to current farm methods those are stuck behind.. and dailies can only be done once a day.
    Specially new fractals take more time than the others and should be more rewarding or shortend.

    PS: Also new unique fractal items would be great :)

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2018

    @Calibria.6489 said:
    Oh well, keep telling yourself that, lets see who is at fgod first ;)

    My hub checked efficiency.. only 10 f god in efficiency record xD I will dream for it to happen one day

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Trae.2384Trae.2384 Member ✭✭✭

    I am absolutely terrified to pug my cm's when theres hamstrung. I cant stand that one, its no fun, theres no strategic joy in it, I just think it will make 100cm second boss platform complete cancertitus C

  • @Trae.2384 said:
    I am absolutely terrified to pug my cm's when theres hamstrung. I cant stand that one, its no fun, theres no strategic joy in it, I just think it will make 100cm second boss platform complete cancertitus C

    hamstrung is a healer check. One the one hand, that kinda makes it boring. On the other hand, I love healers in this game, I think they should be incentivized, I think they make the game more fun, and i'm glad it exists because pugs have healers now.

    Hamstrung was fine on 99cm. I'm sure it will be good on 100CM

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭

    @spiritualabyss.7016 said:
    While i do not like the idea of having Social Awkwardness in CMs , I am really looking forward to the other possibilities this opens up.
    I'm eager to see how pugs handle CMs with Last Laugh and Toxic Trails. To me it sounds like a lot of fun (and that is no sarcasm).

    @Benjamin Arnold.3457 Have you thought about changing instabilities on a daily basis? I think weekly is too slow.
    If I'd have to adapt to different ones every day it would be great!

    @spiritualabyss.7016 said:
    While i do not like the idea of having Social Awkwardness in CMs , I am really looking forward to the other possibilities this opens up.
    I'm eager to see how pugs handle CMs with Last Laugh and Toxic Trails. To me it sounds like a lot of fun (and that is no sarcasm).

    @Benjamin Arnold.3457 Have you thought about changing instabilities on a daily basis? I think weekly is too slow.
    If I'd have to adapt to different ones every day it would be great!

    Change instabilities to change everyday please.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    Change instabilities to change everyday please.

    I don't think it matters? Since the odds of players playing the same fractal level on the following day is slim, even with the dailies (unless it's the same daily on the next day).

  • @Eramonster.2718 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    Change instabilities to change everyday please.

    I don't think it matters? Since the odds of players playing the same fractal level on the following day is slim, even with the dailies (unless it's the same daily on the next day).

    It matters for CMs

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭

    @Geisterlicht.6083 said:

    @Eramonster.2718 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    Change instabilities to change everyday please.

    I don't think it matters? Since the odds of players playing the same fractal level on the following day is slim, even with the dailies (unless it's the same daily on the next day).

    It matters for CMs

    Woops, my bad. TLDR on the quotes :tongue:
    Will indeed help in changing CMs flavours.

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭

    It's a bad design of difficulty. you should just add 1 instability for 26-50, 2 in 51-75 (the ghost that finishes players) and 2 at 76-100 with vindicators and movement slow instability. remove social awkwardness, exploding mobs and the trial of poison and add more difficult mechanics to the bosses and content itself. before this change it was somehow ok but this random each day or week or whatever was really bad idea.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ultimatepwr.9562 said:

    @Trae.2384 said:
    I am absolutely terrified to pug my cm's when theres hamstrung. I cant stand that one, its no fun, theres no strategic joy in it, I just think it will make 100cm second boss platform complete cancertitus C

    hamstrung is a healer check. One the one hand, that kinda makes it boring. On the other hand, I love healers in this game, I think they should be incentivized, I think they make the game more fun, and i'm glad it exists because pugs have healers now.

    Hamstrung was fine on 99cm. I'm sure it will be good on 100CM

    I'd say even less of a problem on 100CM cuz you have your special action key hax.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2018

    Im all for dificulty going to the content it self rather than be shoved in by instabilities.

    But lore wise instabilities are a nice concept. Sad they arent more like actual mechanics and they are more of an anoyance.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2018

    99CM with Toxic Trails (and enemies gain boons and apply random conditions) is maybe the worst experience I had in this game with mostly PuG's.

    Almost 100% poison/orange circle coverage at some points, can't stand in the hitbox for DH's anymore (I guess Anet really, really want's Weaver to be the only DPS choice with poison trail in boss fractals) and it's just a mess.

    With some of these combos, Raids are the easy preparation for Fractals now I guess.

    Unless you have a really good static, I don't see this content being worth playing with the current fractal rewards.

    "As you know, those who you once called friends have become enemies." ~Glint

  • @Asum.4960 said:
    99CM with Toxic Trails (and enemies gain boons and apply random conditions) is maybe the worst experience I had in this game with mostly PuG's.

    Almost 100% poison/orange circle coverage at some points, can't stand in the hitbox for DH's anymore (I guess Anet really, really want's Weaver to be the only DPS choice with poison trail in boss fractals) and it's just a mess.

    With some of these combos, Raids are the easy preparation for Fractals now I guess.

    Unless you have a really good static, I don't see this content being worth playing with the current fractal rewards.

    Really? Because I had a meh pug group (dps was lower then the average for days where nightmare isn’t a daily) and it was fine. A few wipes, but not significantly more then normal, and the wipes were not directly attributable to toxic trails or either of the other ones. I think people in this thread are over reacting. Or they think that the game should be easy enough that wipes should never happen, which is silly

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:
    Unless you have a really good static, I don't see this content being worth playing with the current fractal rewards.

    That or you ask for fractal titles, kill proofs and other stuff to make sure you have competent team members. I quit 99cm with pugs after three wipes at MAMA yesterday, didn't want to experience Siax with those instabilities. And I didn't want to spend an hour with 99cm only while the latest story chapter in the new map was waiting for me.

  • So, for recs I just did T3 Amala with Flux Bomb and Last Laugh. Honestly, it was harder than most of the T4 TO runs I've done. Especially the Grenth minions and the adds around the Balthazar priestess. There was just nowhere safe at all. Throw SA or Vindicators into the mix and this will be an unpuggable combination at T4.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sister Saxifrage.7361 said:
    So, for recs I just did T3 Amala with Flux Bomb and Last Laugh. Honestly, it was harder than most of the T4 TO runs I've done. Especially the Grenth minions and the adds around the Balthazar priestess. There was just nowhere safe at all. Throw SA or Vindicators into the mix and this will be an unpuggable combination at T4.

    Use special action key

  • @Sister Saxifrage.7361 said:
    So, for recs I just did T3 Amala with Flux Bomb and Last Laugh. Honestly, it was harder than most of the T4 TO runs I've done. Especially the Grenth minions and the adds around the Balthazar priestess. There was just nowhere safe at all. Throw SA or Vindicators into the mix and this will be an unpuggable combination at T4.

    Sa, sure maybe. T4s will probably be not that bad because people bring support champs. Also, some dev comments suggest that they wanna check last laugh, and maybe nerf it.

    That being said, does no one read patch notes? Vindicators are not a hard instability to deal with. People, stop putting them on the list of annoying kitten. They were nerfed super hard.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sister Saxifrage.7361 said:
    So, for recs I just did T3 Amala with Flux Bomb and Last Laugh. Honestly, it was harder than most of the T4 TO runs I've done. Especially the Grenth minions and the adds around the Balthazar priestess. There was just nowhere safe at all. Throw SA or Vindicators into the mix and this will be an unpuggable combination at T4.

    Flux bomb can be avoided completely by jumping in the air with special action key just before it explodes. It negates everything from the bomb!
    I assume you had very very very bad mates because Last Laugh will also almost do nothing at Amala. Only during the phases on the cliffs which are easy there is nothing to fear from Last Laugh. I joined a "p + f" rec today (no meta at all, no chrono) and we had 0 issues.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2018

    @Sister Saxifrage.7361 said:
    So, for recs I just did T3 Amala with Flux Bomb and Last Laugh. Honestly, it was harder than most of the T4 TO runs I've done. Especially the Grenth minions and the adds around the Balthazar priestess. There was just nowhere safe at all. Throw SA or Vindicators into the mix and this will be an unpuggable combination at T4.

    Flux bomb is nerfed I think? It doesn't tick as hard & stays behind only for like 5seconds? (It couldn't kill a player downed inside it)
    And what Vinceman.4572 said about special action key to remove it. With sufficient Dps; Grenth phase ends before she summons the minnions, or use the special action key to break free from getting chained knockback into the Spectral Walls.

    (Ps: Try not to drop flux bombs up on the balcony)

  • Last laugh with ensolyss last phase where the illusions keep popping around you and it's dark as hell. Really now.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khilipl Astrape.9746 said:
    Last laugh with ensolyss last phase where the illusions keep popping around you and it's dark as hell. Really now.

    Not that bad

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2018

    @Sister Saxifrage.7361 said:
    So, for recs I just did T3 Amala with Flux Bomb and Last Laugh. Honestly, it was harder than most of the T4 TO runs I've done. Especially the Grenth minions and the adds around the Balthazar priestess. There was just nowhere safe at all. Throw SA or Vindicators into the mix and this will be an unpuggable combination at T4.

    Same here, did it yesterday, was a clean run and we had no deaths and no wipes, maybe one or two vindicators. It felt like T4 though. I really think it's off balance for players who are on tier 3 in their skill curve. I bet groups got wiped left and right yesterday, even more than usually.

    I also did 99cm + T4s with both accounts in the last two days, and talked about the instabilities in the party. All runs were successful and clean, without wipes. Everybody agreed that the instabilities are annoying and suck. These players were not bad and unskilled, they were just annoyed. You jump up to the platform in the Amala phase and get knocked down right away because of last laugh, might be fun the first 3 times, then it's just annoying.

  • mtpelion.4562mtpelion.4562 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2018

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @Sister Saxifrage.7361 said:
    So, for recs I just did T3 Amala with Flux Bomb and Last Laugh. Honestly, it was harder than most of the T4 TO runs I've done. Especially the Grenth minions and the adds around the Balthazar priestess. There was just nowhere safe at all. Throw SA or Vindicators into the mix and this will be an unpuggable combination at T4.

    Same here, did it yesterday, was a clean run and we had no deaths and no wipes, maybe one or two vindicators. It felt like T4 though. I really think it's off balance for players who are on tier 3 in their skill curve. I bet groups got wiped left and right yesterday, even more than usually.

    I also did 99cm + T4s with both accounts in the last two days, and talked about the instabilities in the party. All runs were successful and clean, without wipes. Everybody agreed that the instabilities are annoying and suck. These players were not bad and unskilled, they were just annoyed. You jump up to the platform in the Amala phase and get knocked down right away because of last laugh, might be fun the first 3 times, then it's just annoying.

    Just thought I would add my feedback on this. I'm not a regular Fractal/Raider (just got my Personal Reward Level up to 32 yesterday, and this was also my first time ever doing this particular fractal) and when I did the Amala fight yesterday (with 2 guild members and 2 PUGs) it was certainly chaotic and we wiped about 7 times, but we did eventually beat it. It was certainly several times more difficult than the T4 dailies we had just come off of finishing, but not impossible.

  • Hi Benjamin and team

    I have mixed feelings about this.

    The bad (will tell more about it)
    Much harder to random pug fractals. You have to be 'elitist' to safeguard a good safety margin of error to do the fractals with the current random difficulty. I hate being picking about professions/Setup, but fractals requires it now...
    Some instabilities work 70-95% fine in a fractal, but in ONE VERY place in fractal it creates chaos. Last laugh is such a case.
    More challenge is nice, but fractals is a daily task, they now take longer most of time. And are more frustrating. With a daily task, you risk, that if you go to far in difficulty you push ppl completely away. I'm going for fractal god, but if it becomes like the cm's to pug, then i will quit very likely.

    The good: It requires strategy, adapting. This is quite fun on teamspeak and with ppl that play well. It makes fractals less boring. You must be more aware in most fractals. It promotes changing skills/traits (like get stability more with last laugh).

    Now about the 'faults'.

    Toxic trail + something other annoying (say afflicted or last laugh or the one that makes you move less fast more damage you take), is very hard in some fractals. Like bloomhunger. The whisp phase sometimes summons army around player. All of those mobs create toxic trail. It's very hard to avoid, and keeps you very likely in combat with afflicted likely putting in cripple, really messy. At boss fight itself, the 'survive bloomhunger mob army' can cover almost full circle with toxic trail It's survivable with good team for short wile (15 sec) but can be pain depending on spread of mobs. And it has to be repeated 3x without mistakes, not easy.

    Today i had worst horror so far. Nightmare with last laugh. Generally not much problem and a good instability in this fractal. Except for the last boss, last 15%, it's an absolute knockback 'nightmare' (a real one, pun intended). Not only do the default mechanics knockback and force you in a small save area. All those mobs, become killable, and usually go down in like 3 secs (5+ mobs). If they die spread wide enough, then even double dodge, you will get knocked back, and if then another default mechanic knocks you back, it's painful. 7 pugs quitted after few attempts. The attempt we won with (i got a screenshot from it), we were all downed at 4% hp, two rallied, i gave everything in the world dps wise cause i knew i would fully die next knockback fest. We downed again at 0,7%, spammed downed skills like hell, made it by an inch. This was NOT fun, not skill requiring, nor strategy dependant (we HAD specifically taken all aoe stability we could like well of precognition, stand your ground). My advice, keep instability BUT somehow make the last mobs, not explode (remove the code/block the code on them).

    Vindicators still die slowly, you cant 'rally' on them alone, you need your teammates to kill them for you but if they die by same mechanic + vindicator pressure, then you got a real rampage going on. Even if you rally that person but go down to condies it will probably become really chaotic with wipe as result. In most fractals (especially easy ones no prob), but imo in mai trin this has no place, the aoe pressure is huge there already done need an overpowered finisher.

    If there would be voting with following options 'keep it, keep it with adjustments, remove it' (the random instabilities) i would choose the second one.

    Also friendly reminder Benjamin, I admire that you game so much and know fractals so well. Kudos. However that has a downside. You think like the best player in gw2, the best groups (friend/guild runs, mostly CM runs) that currently play gw2. You know everything in an out, and clearly have often ppl you know well to join you in your team also. But the moment you lfg, the chance of such a crazy good group is low. Usually dps (of everyone) halves, or even less. Wich makes the mechanical pressure double as long, double as much chance to fail the fractal. I'm not saying that you do bad, for instance, amala, Dwayna phase 'checkpoint' is great. I didnt even think that it was possible to have a checkpoint mid boss fight. This is great for pugs. However i still think (not for good groups) but the groups 1 and 2 tiers below the best t4 groups,, that mai trin is overtuned. The moment your dps is low, the adds go down TREMENdously slow, so slow you usually wipe. I'm not saying 3k dps (per person) should make mai trinn doable/easy, but the tresshold should be lower then the current 15-25k per person 'spike during phase' dps requirement. Still i love that you play the game much, it's always better for judgement then not playing it imo. Just keep in mind, you are like a top of the line player if it concerns how good you are at fractals. Like today i was only player in 99 nightmare able to dodge some of the (almost invisible in the 'drunk vision') last laughs at 15% end of boss. This was persistance and long time experience that got me so far, still it didnt help me to prevent knockback rampages, and ultimately a wipe.

    It's my hope the instabilities stay random (it's right that it makes then more fun, especially during trash, easier bosses etc), but during some encounters, clearly some insane combo's exist, at the disadvantage of players. Some tuning could be used.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mfw half the population doesnt know what fb or stability is...

  • @Phoebe Ascension.8437 said:
    Hi Benjamin and team

    I have mixed feelings about this.

    The bad (will tell more about it)
    Much harder to random pug fractals. You have to be 'elitist' to safeguard a good safety margin of error to do the fractals with the current random difficulty. I hate being picking about professions/Setup, but fractals requires it now...
    Some instabilities work 70-95% fine in a fractal, but in ONE VERY place in fractal it creates chaos. Last laugh is such a case.
    More challenge is nice, but fractals is a daily task, they now take longer most of time. And are more frustrating. With a daily task, you risk, that if you go to far in difficulty you push ppl completely away. I'm going for fractal god, but if it becomes like the cm's to pug, then i will quit very likely.

    The good: It requires strategy, adapting. This is quite fun on teamspeak and with ppl that play well. It makes fractals less boring. You must be more aware in most fractals. It promotes changing skills/traits (like get stability more with last laugh).

    Now about the 'faults'.

    Toxic trail + something other annoying (say afflicted or last laugh or the one that makes you move less fast more damage you take), is very hard in some fractals. Like bloomhunger. The whisp phase sometimes summons army around player. All of those mobs create toxic trail. It's very hard to avoid, and keeps you very likely in combat with afflicted likely putting in cripple, really messy. At boss fight itself, the 'survive bloomhunger mob army' can cover almost full circle with toxic trail It's survivable with good team for short wile (15 sec) but can be pain depending on spread of mobs. And it has to be repeated 3x without mistakes, not easy.

    Today i had worst horror so far. Nightmare with last laugh. Generally not much problem and a good instability in this fractal. Except for the last boss, last 15%, it's an absolute knockback 'nightmare' (a real one, pun intended). Not only do the default mechanics knockback and force you in a small save area. All those mobs, become killable, and usually go down in like 3 secs (5+ mobs). If they die spread wide enough, then even double dodge, you will get knocked back, and if then another default mechanic knocks you back, it's painful. 7 pugs quitted after few attempts. The attempt we won with (i got a screenshot from it), we were all downed at 4% hp, two rallied, i gave everything in the world dps wise cause i knew i would fully die next knockback fest. We downed again at 0,7%, spammed downed skills like hell, made it by an inch. This was NOT fun, not skill requiring, nor strategy dependant (we HAD specifically taken all aoe stability we could like well of precognition, stand your ground). My advice, keep instability BUT somehow make the last mobs, not explode (remove the code/block the code on them).

    Vindicators still die slowly, you cant 'rally' on them alone, you need your teammates to kill them for you but if they die by same mechanic + vindicator pressure, then you got a real rampage going on. Even if you rally that person but go down to condies it will probably become really chaotic with wipe as result. In most fractals (especially easy ones no prob), but imo in mai trin this has no place, the aoe pressure is huge there already done need an overpowered finisher.

    If there would be voting with following options 'keep it, keep it with adjustments, remove it' (the random instabilities) i would choose the second one.

    Also friendly reminder Benjamin, I admire that you game so much and know fractals so well. Kudos. However that has a downside. You think like the best player in gw2, the best groups (friend/guild runs, mostly CM runs) that currently play gw2. You know everything in an out, and clearly have often ppl you know well to join you in your team also. But the moment you lfg, the chance of such a crazy good group is low. Usually dps (of everyone) halves, or even less. Wich makes the mechanical pressure double as long, double as much chance to fail the fractal. I'm not saying that you do bad, for instance, amala, Dwayna phase 'checkpoint' is great. I didnt even think that it was possible to have a checkpoint mid boss fight. This is great for pugs. However i still think (not for good groups) but the groups 1 and 2 tiers below the best t4 groups,, that mai trin is overtuned. The moment your dps is low, the adds go down TREMENdously slow, so slow you usually wipe. I'm not saying 3k dps (per person) should make mai trinn doable/easy, but the tresshold should be lower then the current 15-25k per person 'spike during phase' dps requirement. Still i love that you play the game much, it's always better for judgement then not playing it imo. Just keep in mind, you are like a top of the line player if it concerns how good you are at fractals. Like today i was only player in 99 nightmare able to dodge some of the (almost invisible in the 'drunk vision') last laughs at 15% end of boss. This was persistance and long time experience that got me so far, still it didnt help me to prevent knockback rampages, and ultimately a wipe.

    It's my hope the instabilities stay random (it's right that it makes then more fun, especially during trash, easier bosses etc), but during some encounters, clearly some insane combo's exist, at the disadvantage of players. Some tuning could be used.

    Good feedback ty :) I do want it to be such that one person cannot kill their own vindicator, and I am OK with it being a snowball mechanic in Mai trin as that is what it is designed to do. I think with the new rally and reduced HP as long as the whole group manages to focus it down real quick they can use it to quickly res the downed person.

    I am thinking of replacing the blowout with a daze on last laugh since by and large that is the biggest problem right now with random instabilities, at least until we can formulate a full instability balance pass.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:

    @Phoebe Ascension.8437 said:
    Hi Benjamin and team

    I have mixed feelings about this.

    The bad (will tell more about it)
    Much harder to random pug fractals. You have to be 'elitist' to safeguard a good safety margin of error to do the fractals with the current random difficulty. I hate being picking about professions/Setup, but fractals requires it now...
    Some instabilities work 70-95% fine in a fractal, but in ONE VERY place in fractal it creates chaos. Last laugh is such a case.
    More challenge is nice, but fractals is a daily task, they now take longer most of time. And are more frustrating. With a daily task, you risk, that if you go to far in difficulty you push ppl completely away. I'm going for fractal god, but if it becomes like the cm's to pug, then i will quit very likely.

    The good: It requires strategy, adapting. This is quite fun on teamspeak and with ppl that play well. It makes fractals less boring. You must be more aware in most fractals. It promotes changing skills/traits (like get stability more with last laugh).

    Now about the 'faults'.

    Toxic trail + something other annoying (say afflicted or last laugh or the one that makes you move less fast more damage you take), is very hard in some fractals. Like bloomhunger. The whisp phase sometimes summons army around player. All of those mobs create toxic trail. It's very hard to avoid, and keeps you very likely in combat with afflicted likely putting in cripple, really messy. At boss fight itself, the 'survive bloomhunger mob army' can cover almost full circle with toxic trail It's survivable with good team for short wile (15 sec) but can be pain depending on spread of mobs. And it has to be repeated 3x without mistakes, not easy.

    Today i had worst horror so far. Nightmare with last laugh. Generally not much problem and a good instability in this fractal. Except for the last boss, last 15%, it's an absolute knockback 'nightmare' (a real one, pun intended). Not only do the default mechanics knockback and force you in a small save area. All those mobs, become killable, and usually go down in like 3 secs (5+ mobs). If they die spread wide enough, then even double dodge, you will get knocked back, and if then another default mechanic knocks you back, it's painful. 7 pugs quitted after few attempts. The attempt we won with (i got a screenshot from it), we were all downed at 4% hp, two rallied, i gave everything in the world dps wise cause i knew i would fully die next knockback fest. We downed again at 0,7%, spammed downed skills like hell, made it by an inch. This was NOT fun, not skill requiring, nor strategy dependant (we HAD specifically taken all aoe stability we could like well of precognition, stand your ground). My advice, keep instability BUT somehow make the last mobs, not explode (remove the code/block the code on them).

    Vindicators still die slowly, you cant 'rally' on them alone, you need your teammates to kill them for you but if they die by same mechanic + vindicator pressure, then you got a real rampage going on. Even if you rally that person but go down to condies it will probably become really chaotic with wipe as result. In most fractals (especially easy ones no prob), but imo in mai trin this has no place, the aoe pressure is huge there already done need an overpowered finisher.

    If there would be voting with following options 'keep it, keep it with adjustments, remove it' (the random instabilities) i would choose the second one.

    Also friendly reminder Benjamin, I admire that you game so much and know fractals so well. Kudos. However that has a downside. You think like the best player in gw2, the best groups (friend/guild runs, mostly CM runs) that currently play gw2. You know everything in an out, and clearly have often ppl you know well to join you in your team also. But the moment you lfg, the chance of such a crazy good group is low. Usually dps (of everyone) halves, or even less. Wich makes the mechanical pressure double as long, double as much chance to fail the fractal. I'm not saying that you do bad, for instance, amala, Dwayna phase 'checkpoint' is great. I didnt even think that it was possible to have a checkpoint mid boss fight. This is great for pugs. However i still think (not for good groups) but the groups 1 and 2 tiers below the best t4 groups,, that mai trin is overtuned. The moment your dps is low, the adds go down TREMENdously slow, so slow you usually wipe. I'm not saying 3k dps (per person) should make mai trinn doable/easy, but the tresshold should be lower then the current 15-25k per person 'spike during phase' dps requirement. Still i love that you play the game much, it's always better for judgement then not playing it imo. Just keep in mind, you are like a top of the line player if it concerns how good you are at fractals. Like today i was only player in 99 nightmare able to dodge some of the (almost invisible in the 'drunk vision') last laughs at 15% end of boss. This was persistance and long time experience that got me so far, still it didnt help me to prevent knockback rampages, and ultimately a wipe.

    It's my hope the instabilities stay random (it's right that it makes then more fun, especially during trash, easier bosses etc), but during some encounters, clearly some insane combo's exist, at the disadvantage of players. Some tuning could be used.

    Good feedback ty :) I do want it to be such that one person cannot kill their own vindicator, and I am OK with it being a snowball mechanic in Mai trin as that is what it is designed to do. I think with the new rally and reduced HP as long as the whole group manages to focus it down real quick they can use it to quickly res the downed person.

    I am thinking of replacing the blowout with a daze on last laugh since by and large that is the biggest problem right now with random instabilities, at least until we can formulate a full instability balance pass.

    The daze would be a fine change. Have you also thought of maybe upping the dmg on the poison trail but slowing down the mov speed of mobs abit? Except in cases where the movement of mobs is importand such as the ice elementals on snowblind or the ouzes on taumanova.

  • @zealex.9410 said:

    @Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:

    @Phoebe Ascension.8437 said:
    Hi Benjamin and team

    I have mixed feelings about this.

    The bad (will tell more about it)
    Much harder to random pug fractals. You have to be 'elitist' to safeguard a good safety margin of error to do the fractals with the current random difficulty. I hate being picking about professions/Setup, but fractals requires it now...
    Some instabilities work 70-95% fine in a fractal, but in ONE VERY place in fractal it creates chaos. Last laugh is such a case.
    More challenge is nice, but fractals is a daily task, they now take longer most of time. And are more frustrating. With a daily task, you risk, that if you go to far in difficulty you push ppl completely away. I'm going for fractal god, but if it becomes like the cm's to pug, then i will quit very likely.

    The good: It requires strategy, adapting. This is quite fun on teamspeak and with ppl that play well. It makes fractals less boring. You must be more aware in most fractals. It promotes changing skills/traits (like get stability more with last laugh).

    Now about the 'faults'.

    Toxic trail + something other annoying (say afflicted or last laugh or the one that makes you move less fast more damage you take), is very hard in some fractals. Like bloomhunger. The whisp phase sometimes summons army around player. All of those mobs create toxic trail. It's very hard to avoid, and keeps you very likely in combat with afflicted likely putting in cripple, really messy. At boss fight itself, the 'survive bloomhunger mob army' can cover almost full circle with toxic trail It's survivable with good team for short wile (15 sec) but can be pain depending on spread of mobs. And it has to be repeated 3x without mistakes, not easy.

    Today i had worst horror so far. Nightmare with last laugh. Generally not much problem and a good instability in this fractal. Except for the last boss, last 15%, it's an absolute knockback 'nightmare' (a real one, pun intended). Not only do the default mechanics knockback and force you in a small save area. All those mobs, become killable, and usually go down in like 3 secs (5+ mobs). If they die spread wide enough, then even double dodge, you will get knocked back, and if then another default mechanic knocks you back, it's painful. 7 pugs quitted after few attempts. The attempt we won with (i got a screenshot from it), we were all downed at 4% hp, two rallied, i gave everything in the world dps wise cause i knew i would fully die next knockback fest. We downed again at 0,7%, spammed downed skills like hell, made it by an inch. This was NOT fun, not skill requiring, nor strategy dependant (we HAD specifically taken all aoe stability we could like well of precognition, stand your ground). My advice, keep instability BUT somehow make the last mobs, not explode (remove the code/block the code on them).

    Vindicators still die slowly, you cant 'rally' on them alone, you need your teammates to kill them for you but if they die by same mechanic + vindicator pressure, then you got a real rampage going on. Even if you rally that person but go down to condies it will probably become really chaotic with wipe as result. In most fractals (especially easy ones no prob), but imo in mai trin this has no place, the aoe pressure is huge there already done need an overpowered finisher.

    If there would be voting with following options 'keep it, keep it with adjustments, remove it' (the random instabilities) i would choose the second one.

    Also friendly reminder Benjamin, I admire that you game so much and know fractals so well. Kudos. However that has a downside. You think like the best player in gw2, the best groups (friend/guild runs, mostly CM runs) that currently play gw2. You know everything in an out, and clearly have often ppl you know well to join you in your team also. But the moment you lfg, the chance of such a crazy good group is low. Usually dps (of everyone) halves, or even less. Wich makes the mechanical pressure double as long, double as much chance to fail the fractal. I'm not saying that you do bad, for instance, amala, Dwayna phase 'checkpoint' is great. I didnt even think that it was possible to have a checkpoint mid boss fight. This is great for pugs. However i still think (not for good groups) but the groups 1 and 2 tiers below the best t4 groups,, that mai trin is overtuned. The moment your dps is low, the adds go down TREMENdously slow, so slow you usually wipe. I'm not saying 3k dps (per person) should make mai trinn doable/easy, but the tresshold should be lower then the current 15-25k per person 'spike during phase' dps requirement. Still i love that you play the game much, it's always better for judgement then not playing it imo. Just keep in mind, you are like a top of the line player if it concerns how good you are at fractals. Like today i was only player in 99 nightmare able to dodge some of the (almost invisible in the 'drunk vision') last laughs at 15% end of boss. This was persistance and long time experience that got me so far, still it didnt help me to prevent knockback rampages, and ultimately a wipe.

    It's my hope the instabilities stay random (it's right that it makes then more fun, especially during trash, easier bosses etc), but during some encounters, clearly some insane combo's exist, at the disadvantage of players. Some tuning could be used.

    Good feedback ty :) I do want it to be such that one person cannot kill their own vindicator, and I am OK with it being a snowball mechanic in Mai trin as that is what it is designed to do. I think with the new rally and reduced HP as long as the whole group manages to focus it down real quick they can use it to quickly res the downed person.

    I am thinking of replacing the blowout with a daze on last laugh since by and large that is the biggest problem right now with random instabilities, at least until we can formulate a full instability balance pass.

    The daze would be a fine change. Have you also thought of maybe upping the dmg on the poison trail but slowing down the mov speed of mobs abit? Except in cases where the movement of mobs is importand such as the ice elementals on snowblind or the ouzes on taumanova.

    For a short term change I am going to improve the toxic trails messaging so you can actually tell where the damage is. They should be much much easier to deal with without actually tweaking any damage numbers or aoe sizes.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2018

    @Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:

    @Phoebe Ascension.8437 said:
    Hi Benjamin and team

    I have mixed feelings about this.

    The bad (will tell more about it)
    Much harder to random pug fractals. You have to be 'elitist' to safeguard a good safety margin of error to do the fractals with the current random difficulty. I hate being picking about professions/Setup, but fractals requires it now...
    Some instabilities work 70-95% fine in a fractal, but in ONE VERY place in fractal it creates chaos. Last laugh is such a case.
    More challenge is nice, but fractals is a daily task, they now take longer most of time. And are more frustrating. With a daily task, you risk, that if you go to far in difficulty you push ppl completely away. I'm going for fractal god, but if it becomes like the cm's to pug, then i will quit very likely.

    The good: It requires strategy, adapting. This is quite fun on teamspeak and with ppl that play well. It makes fractals less boring. You must be more aware in most fractals. It promotes changing skills/traits (like get stability more with last laugh).

    Now about the 'faults'.

    Toxic trail + something other annoying (say afflicted or last laugh or the one that makes you move less fast more damage you take), is very hard in some fractals. Like bloomhunger. The whisp phase sometimes summons army around player. All of those mobs create toxic trail. It's very hard to avoid, and keeps you very likely in combat with afflicted likely putting in cripple, really messy. At boss fight itself, the 'survive bloomhunger mob army' can cover almost full circle with toxic trail It's survivable with good team for short wile (15 sec) but can be pain depending on spread of mobs. And it has to be repeated 3x without mistakes, not easy.

    Today i had worst horror so far. Nightmare with last laugh. Generally not much problem and a good instability in this fractal. Except for the last boss, last 15%, it's an absolute knockback 'nightmare' (a real one, pun intended). Not only do the default mechanics knockback and force you in a small save area. All those mobs, become killable, and usually go down in like 3 secs (5+ mobs). If they die spread wide enough, then even double dodge, you will get knocked back, and if then another default mechanic knocks you back, it's painful. 7 pugs quitted after few attempts. The attempt we won with (i got a screenshot from it), we were all downed at 4% hp, two rallied, i gave everything in the world dps wise cause i knew i would fully die next knockback fest. We downed again at 0,7%, spammed downed skills like hell, made it by an inch. This was NOT fun, not skill requiring, nor strategy dependant (we HAD specifically taken all aoe stability we could like well of precognition, stand your ground). My advice, keep instability BUT somehow make the last mobs, not explode (remove the code/block the code on them).

    Vindicators still die slowly, you cant 'rally' on them alone, you need your teammates to kill them for you but if they die by same mechanic + vindicator pressure, then you got a real rampage going on. Even if you rally that person but go down to condies it will probably become really chaotic with wipe as result. In most fractals (especially easy ones no prob), but imo in mai trin this has no place, the aoe pressure is huge there already done need an overpowered finisher.

    If there would be voting with following options 'keep it, keep it with adjustments, remove it' (the random instabilities) i would choose the second one.

    Also friendly reminder Benjamin, I admire that you game so much and know fractals so well. Kudos. However that has a downside. You think like the best player in gw2, the best groups (friend/guild runs, mostly CM runs) that currently play gw2. You know everything in an out, and clearly have often ppl you know well to join you in your team also. But the moment you lfg, the chance of such a crazy good group is low. Usually dps (of everyone) halves, or even less. Wich makes the mechanical pressure double as long, double as much chance to fail the fractal. I'm not saying that you do bad, for instance, amala, Dwayna phase 'checkpoint' is great. I didnt even think that it was possible to have a checkpoint mid boss fight. This is great for pugs. However i still think (not for good groups) but the groups 1 and 2 tiers below the best t4 groups,, that mai trin is overtuned. The moment your dps is low, the adds go down TREMENdously slow, so slow you usually wipe. I'm not saying 3k dps (per person) should make mai trinn doable/easy, but the tresshold should be lower then the current 15-25k per person 'spike during phase' dps requirement. Still i love that you play the game much, it's always better for judgement then not playing it imo. Just keep in mind, you are like a top of the line player if it concerns how good you are at fractals. Like today i was only player in 99 nightmare able to dodge some of the (almost invisible in the 'drunk vision') last laughs at 15% end of boss. This was persistance and long time experience that got me so far, still it didnt help me to prevent knockback rampages, and ultimately a wipe.

    It's my hope the instabilities stay random (it's right that it makes then more fun, especially during trash, easier bosses etc), but during some encounters, clearly some insane combo's exist, at the disadvantage of players. Some tuning could be used.

    Good feedback ty :) I do want it to be such that one person cannot kill their own vindicator, and I am OK with it being a snowball mechanic in Mai trin as that is what it is designed to do. I think with the new rally and reduced HP as long as the whole group manages to focus it down real quick they can use it to quickly res the downed person.

    I am thinking of replacing the blowout with a daze on last laugh since by and large that is the biggest problem right now with random instabilities, at least until we can formulate a full instability balance pass.

    The daze would be a fine change. Have you also thought of maybe upping the dmg on the poison trail but slowing down the mov speed of mobs abit? Except in cases where the movement of mobs is importand such as the ice elementals on snowblind or the ouzes on taumanova.

    For a short term change I am going to improve the toxic trails messaging so you can actually tell where the damage is. They should be much much easier to deal with without actually tweaking any damage numbers or aoe sizes.

    Imho the visual effect could use some polish but its like that with most effects in gw2. It should be easier to tell that the ground is covered in poison and also how much of it is covered.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Mfw half the population doesnt know what fb or stability is...

    In their defence, "Stability" isn't listed under any dps meta builds :lol: . Vindicators is like a free rally tbh, they get obliterated the moment they spawn.

  • Trae.2384Trae.2384 Member ✭✭✭

    I really hope some much more careful thought goes into the next whitelist update. Theres some that should never be paired on encounters. The above poster has a great point, the devs of this game actually play it so if theyre using their own gameplay experience to tune stuff, that is not going to pertain to 90% of the playerbase who hasnt either created the game or played it for many hours a day every day since launch. My gameplay involves pugging almost exclusively when it comes to pve, maybe 1 in 10 of the groups Ive joined since this release have been unphased by this in a negative way. Ive heard almost exclusively how bad it is and negative comments of the sort.

    I absolutely love fractals, it's one of my favorite parts of the game since coming back from a long break, and this change was a very unpleasant experience for me personally but I have adapted just fine for the most part. I do wish you would consider who you're tuning the game for when you make massive changes like this. Most ppl dont know mechanics like developers and just get frustrated and leave after a wipe or 2. I saw 3 groups completely disband yesterday at the Ensolyss 15% phase of nightmare cm. Before the irony there is once you made it to that 15% phase, unless you all DC, you won and now its a rage quit phase so close to the end. Will a daze to LL help that, sure but what about the next unforseen ridiculous combo. If it aint broke dont fix it, but if it is broke please fix it......like now...like yesterday.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:

    @Phoebe Ascension.8437 said:
    Hi Benjamin and team

    I have mixed feelings about this.

    The bad (will tell more about it)
    Much harder to random pug fractals. You have to be 'elitist' to safeguard a good safety margin of error to do the fractals with the current random difficulty. I hate being picking about professions/Setup, but fractals requires it now...
    Some instabilities work 70-95% fine in a fractal, but in ONE VERY place in fractal it creates chaos. Last laugh is such a case.
    More challenge is nice, but fractals is a daily task, they now take longer most of time. And are more frustrating. With a daily task, you risk, that if you go to far in difficulty you push ppl completely away. I'm going for fractal god, but if it becomes like the cm's to pug, then i will quit very likely.

    The good: It requires strategy, adapting. This is quite fun on teamspeak and with ppl that play well. It makes fractals less boring. You must be more aware in most fractals. It promotes changing skills/traits (like get stability more with last laugh).

    Now about the 'faults'.

    Toxic trail + something other annoying (say afflicted or last laugh or the one that makes you move less fast more damage you take), is very hard in some fractals. Like bloomhunger. The whisp phase sometimes summons army around player. All of those mobs create toxic trail. It's very hard to avoid, and keeps you very likely in combat with afflicted likely putting in cripple, really messy. At boss fight itself, the 'survive bloomhunger mob army' can cover almost full circle with toxic trail It's survivable with good team for short wile (15 sec) but can be pain depending on spread of mobs. And it has to be repeated 3x without mistakes, not easy.

    Today i had worst horror so far. Nightmare with last laugh. Generally not much problem and a good instability in this fractal. Except for the last boss, last 15%, it's an absolute knockback 'nightmare' (a real one, pun intended). Not only do the default mechanics knockback and force you in a small save area. All those mobs, become killable, and usually go down in like 3 secs (5+ mobs). If they die spread wide enough, then even double dodge, you will get knocked back, and if then another default mechanic knocks you back, it's painful. 7 pugs quitted after few attempts. The attempt we won with (i got a screenshot from it), we were all downed at 4% hp, two rallied, i gave everything in the world dps wise cause i knew i would fully die next knockback fest. We downed again at 0,7%, spammed downed skills like hell, made it by an inch. This was NOT fun, not skill requiring, nor strategy dependant (we HAD specifically taken all aoe stability we could like well of precognition, stand your ground). My advice, keep instability BUT somehow make the last mobs, not explode (remove the code/block the code on them).

    Vindicators still die slowly, you cant 'rally' on them alone, you need your teammates to kill them for you but if they die by same mechanic + vindicator pressure, then you got a real rampage going on. Even if you rally that person but go down to condies it will probably become really chaotic with wipe as result. In most fractals (especially easy ones no prob), but imo in mai trin this has no place, the aoe pressure is huge there already done need an overpowered finisher.

    If there would be voting with following options 'keep it, keep it with adjustments, remove it' (the random instabilities) i would choose the second one.

    Also friendly reminder Benjamin, I admire that you game so much and know fractals so well. Kudos. However that has a downside. You think like the best player in gw2, the best groups (friend/guild runs, mostly CM runs) that currently play gw2. You know everything in an out, and clearly have often ppl you know well to join you in your team also. But the moment you lfg, the chance of such a crazy good group is low. Usually dps (of everyone) halves, or even less. Wich makes the mechanical pressure double as long, double as much chance to fail the fractal. I'm not saying that you do bad, for instance, amala, Dwayna phase 'checkpoint' is great. I didnt even think that it was possible to have a checkpoint mid boss fight. This is great for pugs. However i still think (not for good groups) but the groups 1 and 2 tiers below the best t4 groups,, that mai trin is overtuned. The moment your dps is low, the adds go down TREMENdously slow, so slow you usually wipe. I'm not saying 3k dps (per person) should make mai trinn doable/easy, but the tresshold should be lower then the current 15-25k per person 'spike during phase' dps requirement. Still i love that you play the game much, it's always better for judgement then not playing it imo. Just keep in mind, you are like a top of the line player if it concerns how good you are at fractals. Like today i was only player in 99 nightmare able to dodge some of the (almost invisible in the 'drunk vision') last laughs at 15% end of boss. This was persistance and long time experience that got me so far, still it didnt help me to prevent knockback rampages, and ultimately a wipe.

    It's my hope the instabilities stay random (it's right that it makes then more fun, especially during trash, easier bosses etc), but during some encounters, clearly some insane combo's exist, at the disadvantage of players. Some tuning could be used.

    Good feedback ty :) I do want it to be such that one person cannot kill their own vindicator, and I am OK with it being a snowball mechanic in Mai trin as that is what it is designed to do. I think with the new rally and reduced HP as long as the whole group manages to focus it down real quick they can use it to quickly res the downed person.

    I am thinking of replacing the blowout with a daze on last laugh since by and large that is the biggest problem right now with random instabilities, at least until we can formulate a full instability balance pass.

    The daze would be a fine change. Have you also thought of maybe upping the dmg on the poison trail but slowing down the mov speed of mobs abit? Except in cases where the movement of mobs is importand such as the ice elementals on snowblind or the ouzes on taumanova.

    I like to daze mobs :p don't like to be dazed
    Well.. hope there's still ground aoe indicator or easy ways for us to react and avoid being daze xD my character's reaction/reflects are very slow and she is very lazy to be on alert all time too :p xD

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Zlater.6789Zlater.6789 Member ✭✭✭

    @Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:

    @Phoebe Ascension.8437 said:
    Hi Benjamin and team

    I have mixed feelings about this.

    The bad (will tell more about it)
    Much harder to random pug fractals. You have to be 'elitist' to safeguard a good safety margin of error to do the fractals with the current random difficulty. I hate being picking about professions/Setup, but fractals requires it now...
    Some instabilities work 70-95% fine in a fractal, but in ONE VERY place in fractal it creates chaos. Last laugh is such a case.
    More challenge is nice, but fractals is a daily task, they now take longer most of time. And are more frustrating. With a daily task, you risk, that if you go to far in difficulty you push ppl completely away. I'm going for fractal god, but if it becomes like the cm's to pug, then i will quit very likely.

    The good: It requires strategy, adapting. This is quite fun on teamspeak and with ppl that play well. It makes fractals less boring. You must be more aware in most fractals. It promotes changing skills/traits (like get stability more with last laugh).

    Now about the 'faults'.

    Toxic trail + something other annoying (say afflicted or last laugh or the one that makes you move less fast more damage you take), is very hard in some fractals. Like bloomhunger. The whisp phase sometimes summons army around player. All of those mobs create toxic trail. It's very hard to avoid, and keeps you very likely in combat with afflicted likely putting in cripple, really messy. At boss fight itself, the 'survive bloomhunger mob army' can cover almost full circle with toxic trail It's survivable with good team for short wile (15 sec) but can be pain depending on spread of mobs. And it has to be repeated 3x without mistakes, not easy.

    Today i had worst horror so far. Nightmare with last laugh. Generally not much problem and a good instability in this fractal. Except for the last boss, last 15%, it's an absolute knockback 'nightmare' (a real one, pun intended). Not only do the default mechanics knockback and force you in a small save area. All those mobs, become killable, and usually go down in like 3 secs (5+ mobs). If they die spread wide enough, then even double dodge, you will get knocked back, and if then another default mechanic knocks you back, it's painful. 7 pugs quitted after few attempts. The attempt we won with (i got a screenshot from it), we were all downed at 4% hp, two rallied, i gave everything in the world dps wise cause i knew i would fully die next knockback fest. We downed again at 0,7%, spammed downed skills like hell, made it by an inch. This was NOT fun, not skill requiring, nor strategy dependant (we HAD specifically taken all aoe stability we could like well of precognition, stand your ground). My advice, keep instability BUT somehow make the last mobs, not explode (remove the code/block the code on them).

    Vindicators still die slowly, you cant 'rally' on them alone, you need your teammates to kill them for you but if they die by same mechanic + vindicator pressure, then you got a real rampage going on. Even if you rally that person but go down to condies it will probably become really chaotic with wipe as result. In most fractals (especially easy ones no prob), but imo in mai trin this has no place, the aoe pressure is huge there already done need an overpowered finisher.

    If there would be voting with following options 'keep it, keep it with adjustments, remove it' (the random instabilities) i would choose the second one.

    Also friendly reminder Benjamin, I admire that you game so much and know fractals so well. Kudos. However that has a downside. You think like the best player in gw2, the best groups (friend/guild runs, mostly CM runs) that currently play gw2. You know everything in an out, and clearly have often ppl you know well to join you in your team also. But the moment you lfg, the chance of such a crazy good group is low. Usually dps (of everyone) halves, or even less. Wich makes the mechanical pressure double as long, double as much chance to fail the fractal. I'm not saying that you do bad, for instance, amala, Dwayna phase 'checkpoint' is great. I didnt even think that it was possible to have a checkpoint mid boss fight. This is great for pugs. However i still think (not for good groups) but the groups 1 and 2 tiers below the best t4 groups,, that mai trin is overtuned. The moment your dps is low, the adds go down TREMENdously slow, so slow you usually wipe. I'm not saying 3k dps (per person) should make mai trinn doable/easy, but the tresshold should be lower then the current 15-25k per person 'spike during phase' dps requirement. Still i love that you play the game much, it's always better for judgement then not playing it imo. Just keep in mind, you are like a top of the line player if it concerns how good you are at fractals. Like today i was only player in 99 nightmare able to dodge some of the (almost invisible in the 'drunk vision') last laughs at 15% end of boss. This was persistance and long time experience that got me so far, still it didnt help me to prevent knockback rampages, and ultimately a wipe.

    It's my hope the instabilities stay random (it's right that it makes then more fun, especially during trash, easier bosses etc), but during some encounters, clearly some insane combo's exist, at the disadvantage of players. Some tuning could be used.

    Good feedback ty :) I do want it to be such that one person cannot kill their own vindicator, and I am OK with it being a snowball mechanic in Mai trin as that is what it is designed to do. I think with the new rally and reduced HP as long as the whole group manages to focus it down real quick they can use it to quickly res the downed person.

    I am thinking of replacing the blowout with a daze on last laugh since by and large that is the biggest problem right now with random instabilities, at least until we can formulate a full instability balance pass.

    Ben instead of making it a daze, could you perhaps consider just putting last laugh on a global cool down. I for one think it's a good idea and a really cool mechanic that makes you think on your feet and catches you off guard if you don't avoid it. But it becomes a serious problem when there are a lot of adds dying at the same time more so when you also have to be aware of personal placement. That would really alleviate the silliness of it without having to nerf encounters or give up any of its flavor.

  • @Zlater.6789 said:

    @Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:

    @Phoebe Ascension.8437 said:
    Hi Benjamin and team

    I have mixed feelings about this.

    The bad (will tell more about it)
    Much harder to random pug fractals. You have to be 'elitist' to safeguard a good safety margin of error to do the fractals with the current random difficulty. I hate being picking about professions/Setup, but fractals requires it now...
    Some instabilities work 70-95% fine in a fractal, but in ONE VERY place in fractal it creates chaos. Last laugh is such a case.
    More challenge is nice, but fractals is a daily task, they now take longer most of time. And are more frustrating. With a daily task, you risk, that if you go to far in difficulty you push ppl completely away. I'm going for fractal god, but if it becomes like the cm's to pug, then i will quit very likely.

    The good: It requires strategy, adapting. This is quite fun on teamspeak and with ppl that play well. It makes fractals less boring. You must be more aware in most fractals. It promotes changing skills/traits (like get stability more with last laugh).

    Now about the 'faults'.

    Toxic trail + something other annoying (say afflicted or last laugh or the one that makes you move less fast more damage you take), is very hard in some fractals. Like bloomhunger. The whisp phase sometimes summons army around player. All of those mobs create toxic trail. It's very hard to avoid, and keeps you very likely in combat with afflicted likely putting in cripple, really messy. At boss fight itself, the 'survive bloomhunger mob army' can cover almost full circle with toxic trail It's survivable with good team for short wile (15 sec) but can be pain depending on spread of mobs. And it has to be repeated 3x without mistakes, not easy.

    Today i had worst horror so far. Nightmare with last laugh. Generally not much problem and a good instability in this fractal. Except for the last boss, last 15%, it's an absolute knockback 'nightmare' (a real one, pun intended). Not only do the default mechanics knockback and force you in a small save area. All those mobs, become killable, and usually go down in like 3 secs (5+ mobs). If they die spread wide enough, then even double dodge, you will get knocked back, and if then another default mechanic knocks you back, it's painful. 7 pugs quitted after few attempts. The attempt we won with (i got a screenshot from it), we were all downed at 4% hp, two rallied, i gave everything in the world dps wise cause i knew i would fully die next knockback fest. We downed again at 0,7%, spammed downed skills like hell, made it by an inch. This was NOT fun, not skill requiring, nor strategy dependant (we HAD specifically taken all aoe stability we could like well of precognition, stand your ground). My advice, keep instability BUT somehow make the last mobs, not explode (remove the code/block the code on them).

    Vindicators still die slowly, you cant 'rally' on them alone, you need your teammates to kill them for you but if they die by same mechanic + vindicator pressure, then you got a real rampage going on. Even if you rally that person but go down to condies it will probably become really chaotic with wipe as result. In most fractals (especially easy ones no prob), but imo in mai trin this has no place, the aoe pressure is huge there already done need an overpowered finisher.

    If there would be voting with following options 'keep it, keep it with adjustments, remove it' (the random instabilities) i would choose the second one.

    Also friendly reminder Benjamin, I admire that you game so much and know fractals so well. Kudos. However that has a downside. You think like the best player in gw2, the best groups (friend/guild runs, mostly CM runs) that currently play gw2. You know everything in an out, and clearly have often ppl you know well to join you in your team also. But the moment you lfg, the chance of such a crazy good group is low. Usually dps (of everyone) halves, or even less. Wich makes the mechanical pressure double as long, double as much chance to fail the fractal. I'm not saying that you do bad, for instance, amala, Dwayna phase 'checkpoint' is great. I didnt even think that it was possible to have a checkpoint mid boss fight. This is great for pugs. However i still think (not for good groups) but the groups 1 and 2 tiers below the best t4 groups,, that mai trin is overtuned. The moment your dps is low, the adds go down TREMENdously slow, so slow you usually wipe. I'm not saying 3k dps (per person) should make mai trinn doable/easy, but the tresshold should be lower then the current 15-25k per person 'spike during phase' dps requirement. Still i love that you play the game much, it's always better for judgement then not playing it imo. Just keep in mind, you are like a top of the line player if it concerns how good you are at fractals. Like today i was only player in 99 nightmare able to dodge some of the (almost invisible in the 'drunk vision') last laughs at 15% end of boss. This was persistance and long time experience that got me so far, still it didnt help me to prevent knockback rampages, and ultimately a wipe.

    It's my hope the instabilities stay random (it's right that it makes then more fun, especially during trash, easier bosses etc), but during some encounters, clearly some insane combo's exist, at the disadvantage of players. Some tuning could be used.

    Good feedback ty :) I do want it to be such that one person cannot kill their own vindicator, and I am OK with it being a snowball mechanic in Mai trin as that is what it is designed to do. I think with the new rally and reduced HP as long as the whole group manages to focus it down real quick they can use it to quickly res the downed person.

    I am thinking of replacing the blowout with a daze on last laugh since by and large that is the biggest problem right now with random instabilities, at least until we can formulate a full instability balance pass.

    Ben instead of making it a daze, could you perhaps consider just putting last laugh on a global cool down. I for one think it's a good idea and a really cool mechanic that makes you think on your feet and catches you off guard if you don't avoid it. But it becomes a serious problem when there are a lot of adds dying at the same time more so when you also have to be aware of personal placement. That would really alleviate the silliness of it without having to nerf encounters or give up any of its flavor.

    Potentially in the balance patch but I don't want to overnerf it with this short term change.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Talindra.4958 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:

    @Phoebe Ascension.8437 said:
    Hi Benjamin and team

    I have mixed feelings about this.

    The bad (will tell more about it)
    Much harder to random pug fractals. You have to be 'elitist' to safeguard a good safety margin of error to do the fractals with the current random difficulty. I hate being picking about professions/Setup, but fractals requires it now...
    Some instabilities work 70-95% fine in a fractal, but in ONE VERY place in fractal it creates chaos. Last laugh is such a case.
    More challenge is nice, but fractals is a daily task, they now take longer most of time. And are more frustrating. With a daily task, you risk, that if you go to far in difficulty you push ppl completely away. I'm going for fractal god, but if it becomes like the cm's to pug, then i will quit very likely.

    The good: It requires strategy, adapting. This is quite fun on teamspeak and with ppl that play well. It makes fractals less boring. You must be more aware in most fractals. It promotes changing skills/traits (like get stability more with last laugh).

    Now about the 'faults'.

    Toxic trail + something other annoying (say afflicted or last laugh or the one that makes you move less fast more damage you take), is very hard in some fractals. Like bloomhunger. The whisp phase sometimes summons army around player. All of those mobs create toxic trail. It's very hard to avoid, and keeps you very likely in combat with afflicted likely putting in cripple, really messy. At boss fight itself, the 'survive bloomhunger mob army' can cover almost full circle with toxic trail It's survivable with good team for short wile (15 sec) but can be pain depending on spread of mobs. And it has to be repeated 3x without mistakes, not easy.

    Today i had worst horror so far. Nightmare with last laugh. Generally not much problem and a good instability in this fractal. Except for the last boss, last 15%, it's an absolute knockback 'nightmare' (a real one, pun intended). Not only do the default mechanics knockback and force you in a small save area. All those mobs, become killable, and usually go down in like 3 secs (5+ mobs). If they die spread wide enough, then even double dodge, you will get knocked back, and if then another default mechanic knocks you back, it's painful. 7 pugs quitted after few attempts. The attempt we won with (i got a screenshot from it), we were all downed at 4% hp, two rallied, i gave everything in the world dps wise cause i knew i would fully die next knockback fest. We downed again at 0,7%, spammed downed skills like hell, made it by an inch. This was NOT fun, not skill requiring, nor strategy dependant (we HAD specifically taken all aoe stability we could like well of precognition, stand your ground). My advice, keep instability BUT somehow make the last mobs, not explode (remove the code/block the code on them).

    Vindicators still die slowly, you cant 'rally' on them alone, you need your teammates to kill them for you but if they die by same mechanic + vindicator pressure, then you got a real rampage going on. Even if you rally that person but go down to condies it will probably become really chaotic with wipe as result. In most fractals (especially easy ones no prob), but imo in mai trin this has no place, the aoe pressure is huge there already done need an overpowered finisher.

    If there would be voting with following options 'keep it, keep it with adjustments, remove it' (the random instabilities) i would choose the second one.

    Also friendly reminder Benjamin, I admire that you game so much and know fractals so well. Kudos. However that has a downside. You think like the best player in gw2, the best groups (friend/guild runs, mostly CM runs) that currently play gw2. You know everything in an out, and clearly have often ppl you know well to join you in your team also. But the moment you lfg, the chance of such a crazy good group is low. Usually dps (of everyone) halves, or even less. Wich makes the mechanical pressure double as long, double as much chance to fail the fractal. I'm not saying that you do bad, for instance, amala, Dwayna phase 'checkpoint' is great. I didnt even think that it was possible to have a checkpoint mid boss fight. This is great for pugs. However i still think (not for good groups) but the groups 1 and 2 tiers below the best t4 groups,, that mai trin is overtuned. The moment your dps is low, the adds go down TREMENdously slow, so slow you usually wipe. I'm not saying 3k dps (per person) should make mai trinn doable/easy, but the tresshold should be lower then the current 15-25k per person 'spike during phase' dps requirement. Still i love that you play the game much, it's always better for judgement then not playing it imo. Just keep in mind, you are like a top of the line player if it concerns how good you are at fractals. Like today i was only player in 99 nightmare able to dodge some of the (almost invisible in the 'drunk vision') last laughs at 15% end of boss. This was persistance and long time experience that got me so far, still it didnt help me to prevent knockback rampages, and ultimately a wipe.

    It's my hope the instabilities stay random (it's right that it makes then more fun, especially during trash, easier bosses etc), but during some encounters, clearly some insane combo's exist, at the disadvantage of players. Some tuning could be used.

    Good feedback ty :) I do want it to be such that one person cannot kill their own vindicator, and I am OK with it being a snowball mechanic in Mai trin as that is what it is designed to do. I think with the new rally and reduced HP as long as the whole group manages to focus it down real quick they can use it to quickly res the downed person.

    I am thinking of replacing the blowout with a daze on last laugh since by and large that is the biggest problem right now with random instabilities, at least until we can formulate a full instability balance pass.

    The daze would be a fine change. Have you also thought of maybe upping the dmg on the poison trail but slowing down the mov speed of mobs abit? Except in cases where the movement of mobs is importand such as the ice elementals on snowblind or the ouzes on taumanova.

    I like to daze mobs :p don't like to be dazed
    Well.. hope there's still ground aoe indicator or easy ways for us to react and avoid being daze xD my character's reaction/reflects are very slow and she is very lazy to be on alert all time too :p xD

    Do you like to be knocked around the place more? It will prob be the same thing but instead of knocking u around the olaces instead it dazes you.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Talindra.4958 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:

    @Phoebe Ascension.8437 said:
    Hi Benjamin and team

    I have mixed feelings about this.

    The bad (will tell more about it)
    Much harder to random pug fractals. You have to be 'elitist' to safeguard a good safety margin of error to do the fractals with the current random difficulty. I hate being picking about professions/Setup, but fractals requires it now...
    Some instabilities work 70-95% fine in a fractal, but in ONE VERY place in fractal it creates chaos. Last laugh is such a case.
    More challenge is nice, but fractals is a daily task, they now take longer most of time. And are more frustrating. With a daily task, you risk, that if you go to far in difficulty you push ppl completely away. I'm going for fractal god, but if it becomes like the cm's to pug, then i will quit very likely.

    The good: It requires strategy, adapting. This is quite fun on teamspeak and with ppl that play well. It makes fractals less boring. You must be more aware in most fractals. It promotes changing skills/traits (like get stability more with last laugh).

    Now about the 'faults'.

    Toxic trail + something other annoying (say afflicted or last laugh or the one that makes you move less fast more damage you take), is very hard in some fractals. Like bloomhunger. The whisp phase sometimes summons army around player. All of those mobs create toxic trail. It's very hard to avoid, and keeps you very likely in combat with afflicted likely putting in cripple, really messy. At boss fight itself, the 'survive bloomhunger mob army' can cover almost full circle with toxic trail It's survivable with good team for short wile (15 sec) but can be pain depending on spread of mobs. And it has to be repeated 3x without mistakes, not easy.

    Today i had worst horror so far. Nightmare with last laugh. Generally not much problem and a good instability in this fractal. Except for the last boss, last 15%, it's an absolute knockback 'nightmare' (a real one, pun intended). Not only do the default mechanics knockback and force you in a small save area. All those mobs, become killable, and usually go down in like 3 secs (5+ mobs). If they die spread wide enough, then even double dodge, you will get knocked back, and if then another default mechanic knocks you back, it's painful. 7 pugs quitted after few attempts. The attempt we won with (i got a screenshot from it), we were all downed at 4% hp, two rallied, i gave everything in the world dps wise cause i knew i would fully die next knockback fest. We downed again at 0,7%, spammed downed skills like hell, made it by an inch. This was NOT fun, not skill requiring, nor strategy dependant (we HAD specifically taken all aoe stability we could like well of precognition, stand your ground). My advice, keep instability BUT somehow make the last mobs, not explode (remove the code/block the code on them).

    Vindicators still die slowly, you cant 'rally' on them alone, you need your teammates to kill them for you but if they die by same mechanic + vindicator pressure, then you got a real rampage going on. Even if you rally that person but go down to condies it will probably become really chaotic with wipe as result. In most fractals (especially easy ones no prob), but imo in mai trin this has no place, the aoe pressure is huge there already done need an overpowered finisher.

    If there would be voting with following options 'keep it, keep it with adjustments, remove it' (the random instabilities) i would choose the second one.

    Also friendly reminder Benjamin, I admire that you game so much and know fractals so well. Kudos. However that has a downside. You think like the best player in gw2, the best groups (friend/guild runs, mostly CM runs) that currently play gw2. You know everything in an out, and clearly have often ppl you know well to join you in your team also. But the moment you lfg, the chance of such a crazy good group is low. Usually dps (of everyone) halves, or even less. Wich makes the mechanical pressure double as long, double as much chance to fail the fractal. I'm not saying that you do bad, for instance, amala, Dwayna phase 'checkpoint' is great. I didnt even think that it was possible to have a checkpoint mid boss fight. This is great for pugs. However i still think (not for good groups) but the groups 1 and 2 tiers below the best t4 groups,, that mai trin is overtuned. The moment your dps is low, the adds go down TREMENdously slow, so slow you usually wipe. I'm not saying 3k dps (per person) should make mai trinn doable/easy, but the tresshold should be lower then the current 15-25k per person 'spike during phase' dps requirement. Still i love that you play the game much, it's always better for judgement then not playing it imo. Just keep in mind, you are like a top of the line player if it concerns how good you are at fractals. Like today i was only player in 99 nightmare able to dodge some of the (almost invisible in the 'drunk vision') last laughs at 15% end of boss. This was persistance and long time experience that got me so far, still it didnt help me to prevent knockback rampages, and ultimately a wipe.

    It's my hope the instabilities stay random (it's right that it makes then more fun, especially during trash, easier bosses etc), but during some encounters, clearly some insane combo's exist, at the disadvantage of players. Some tuning could be used.

    Good feedback ty :) I do want it to be such that one person cannot kill their own vindicator, and I am OK with it being a snowball mechanic in Mai trin as that is what it is designed to do. I think with the new rally and reduced HP as long as the whole group manages to focus it down real quick they can use it to quickly res the downed person.

    I am thinking of replacing the blowout with a daze on last laugh since by and large that is the biggest problem right now with random instabilities, at least until we can formulate a full instability balance pass.

    The daze would be a fine change. Have you also thought of maybe upping the dmg on the poison trail but slowing down the mov speed of mobs abit? Except in cases where the movement of mobs is importand such as the ice elementals on snowblind or the ouzes on taumanova.

    I like to daze mobs :p don't like to be dazed
    Well.. hope there's still ground aoe indicator or easy ways for us to react and avoid being daze xD my character's reaction/reflects are very slow and she is very lazy to be on alert all time too :p xD

    Do you like to be knocked around the place more? It will prob be the same thing but instead of knocking u around the olaces instead it dazes you.

    I happen to be able to time the dodge 8 out of 10 perfectly. If just swapping kd to daze not removing the indicator then that's nothing change to me which is good as I think currently I'm fine with current last laugh no problemo. (I am with 400 average ping)
    If the mobs are well managed team m8s position well.. good mobs management means last laugh will be easy to manage too.. I think a lot of this is six senses too idk :p just saying last laugh is fine with average group.. but if we are adjusting last laugh as in making it easier then yes yes go ahead xD

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @Trae.2384 said:
    I saw 3 groups completely disband yesterday at the Ensolyss 15% phase of nightmare cm. Before the irony there is once you made it to that 15% phase, unless you all DC, you won and now its a rage quit phase so close to the end.

    If chrono and druid are doing their job and stop relaxing after phase shift to enjoy a flawless victory the last phase is no problem at all. Seriously, the 15% mark before was like: "Oh, we did it. Boss only lost 85% of his hp but the fight is over. gg bois!" A deadly and challenging encounter should be harder in the end not easier. Good groups are still making it without wiping once!

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭

    At this rate, we might end up with everything nerfed and fractals will be linear/stale than ever before (when its a breeze no matter what instability is randomized) :sweat:. Starting to feel the previous system is more enjoyable "balanced".

    How 99cm last boss used to start "Can't this guy die any faster?" and ends at 15% "We got this bagged boys and girls, stack close and mash your buttons especially you; healer :wink:"

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