PvP/WvW Skill Split Release - Page 24 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

PvP/WvW Skill Split Release

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  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2018

    @FtoPScrub.5476 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @FtoPScrub.5476 said:

    @Sodeni.6041 said:
    Im really afraid of the mesmer mirage change where illusive mind gives you exhaustion. This means the mesmer can't regenerate endurance at all in this time.

    I think you think mirage is similar to daredevil but thats not right. Mirage still has only 2 endurance bars and has basically no skills that regenerate endurance like daredevil does (daredevil heal, signet, vigor). Mirage only has some vigor and thats it. I think nobody will run illusive mind anymore.

    There's like 10 times more criple/chill/immob in this game than hard CC. 3 seconds of exhaustion isn't going to do kitten. Mirage is still going to be at least A tier after this. Look at how hard all the other POF classes got hit and then take into account that almost all of them were already undertuned compared to Mirage. Mirage got off easy.

    Have you thought about the fact that mirage can dodge when cced without this trait anyway? So why should anyone take this trait if it is going to be harmful for them, when aside from condi cleanse they will be better off not taking any grandmaster major trait at all and be able to dodge while cced, maintaining endurance regen?

    Exhaustion doesn't make sense due to the way mirage dodge currently functions. Nothing to do with "overpowrered"/"underpowered". It doesn't make sense in terms of design.

    The condi cleanse alone is going to make it worth taking in heavy condi metas. Stunbreak is still important for positioning. You might be able to dodge the damage after a shield bash but you'll have a much harder time kiting the spellbreaker. Not to mention there are several CCs that last longer than .75 seconds. EM is still going to see use, it just won't be as dominant as it is now. If it were up to me EM would have a 15 second CD and Mirage would not be able to dodge while stunned, but 3 seconds of exhaustion is not going to be the EM killer Mirages make it out to be.

    If they change the function of mirage dodge to not work when cced unless having Elusive Mind traited, then I can accept Exhaustion on EM.

    And part of me does think that is a necessary change that will be made at some point in the future to raise the skill floor of mirage.

    For the record it's not about "Exhaustion being the EM killer" - I've stated in previous posts that I will still continue to use EM. It's about the fact that if you dodge a <1s cc effect without EM you will still evade and maintain endurance regen - easy to teleport out for positioning and keep the endurance filling.

    Also given how mirage cloak currently works it is possible to dodge in the middle of very short cc effects - ie 1/2 dazes and such. Is being punished with 3s Exhaustion worth it when the cc effect wears off so quickly while you'll evade anyway without EM?

    Yes there are a number of >1s cc effects in the game, and this is where EM has its use. But for all the short duration cc it doesn't make sense to have exhaustion.

  • @Tapps.1479 said:
    PLease take a look at soulbeast damage. on ele i'm getting bye 24k maul and 26k worldy impact. Single abilites probably shouldn't be able to do 100% of a characters life

    This sounds more like a L2P issue, than one of balance. The only way the ranger is hitting you that hard is if you are running no defense in your gear. Also, there is such a thing as dodge+evade.

  • @Darkened.4076 said:

    @Tapps.1479 said:
    PLease take a look at soulbeast damage. on ele i'm getting bye 24k maul and 26k worldy impact. Single abilites probably shouldn't be able to do 100% of a characters life

    This sounds more like a L2P issue, than one of balance. The only way the ranger is hitting you that hard is if you are running no defense in your gear. Also, there is such a thing as dodge+evade.

    Not only that but the ranger is running just squishy and both of those skills have extremely obvious animations.

  • LUST.7241LUST.7241 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't understand how some skills are getting 1 second increases...but then the cooldown is also increased by 10s. That seems like it resolves nothing.

    All my alts are just storage for my Engi.

  • Toron.4856Toron.4856 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    So Ben,

    Can you already tell if the pvp balance is going to between before or after the next season?

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks!

    I've been promising a list of edits to our initial post and finally here they are! I'm hoping to get the full list re-translated and posted in all languages by mid next week.

    A few notes:
    We'd mentioned several times that we were going to consider unsplitting some things. We decided to hold off on that for now, but we will be considering unsplits for the next full balance release.

    Keep in mind that balance is a moving target. We know we have more to do!

    Warrior
    • Rampage: Reduced the cooldown from 180 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced transform duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds.

    Revenant
    Skills
    • Forced Engagement: Reduced the energy cost from 25 to 10. Increased the cooldown from 10 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

    Thief
    Skills
    • Larcenous Strike: Reduced the power coefficient from 15% in PvP and WvW
    • We decided not to do the following buffs;
    • Heartseeker
    • Shadow Shot
    • Infiltrator’s Strike
    Traits
    • Swindler's Equilibrium: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

    Ranger
    Skills
    • Seed of Life: Increased the cooldown from 1 second to 3 seconds in PvP only
    • Rejuvenating Tides: Reduced the base healing per pulse by 15% in PvP only
    • Solar Beam: Reduced the damage by 17% in PvP only
    • Celestial Avatar: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP only
    Traits
    • Refined Toxins: Increased the cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP only
    • Rugged Growth: Reduced the healing by 50% in PvP only
    • Grace of the Land: Reduced the number of Might stacks applied from 3 to 2 in PvP only
    • Fortifying Bond: Reduced duration of shared Might stacks from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only
    • "We Heal as One!:" Reduced duration of copied Might stacks from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only
    • Fresh Reinforcement: Reduced shared Might duration 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only

    Engineer
    Skills
    • Light Strike: Reduced the damage by 40% in PvP only
    • Holo Leap: Reduced the damage by 17% in PvP only
    • Corona Burst: Reduced the Might stacks granted per pulse from 2 to 1 in PvP only
    • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced the damage by 22% in PvP only
    • Detection Pulse radius increased from 600 to 1200 in PvP and WvW.

    Elementalist
    Skills
    • Arcane Blast: Reduced the maximum Ammo count from 3 to 2 in PvP and WvW
    • Plasma Beam: Reduced damage by 20% in PvP and WvW
    • Tornado: Reduced the cooldown from 150 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced the transform duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP and WvW.
    Traits
    • Electric Discharge: Reduced the power by 28% in PvP and WvW

    Mesmer
    Skills
    • Phantasmal Disenchanter – Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Illusionary Riposte: Increased the cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Illusionary Swordsman: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased the number of might stacks from 8 to 4 in PvP and WvW
    • Mirror Blade: Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW
    • Signet of the Ether: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Jaunt: Reduced damage by 50% in PvP and WvW
    Traits
    • Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 3 seconds of Exhaustion when breaking a stun
    • Bountiful Disillusionment: Reduced Stability duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased Might stacks from 5 to 3 in PvP and WvW
    • Mental Anguish: Reduced bonus damages from 15% and 30% to 10% and 20% respectively in PvP and WvW
    • Confounding Suggestions: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

    Edit: Forgot Ramage and Tornado edits in initial posting.

    On one hand, these are mostly good changes and it's good to see that mesmer burst / infinite evade is being toned down.

    But on the other, it's sad to see yet another season with Renegade traits being almost totally ignored when It's almost unanimously accepted among the community that they are lacking. Will Renegade traits ever get a pass or should we just accept that Revenant drew the short straw when it comes to PoF?

  • dzeRnumbrd.6129dzeRnumbrd.6129 Member ✭✭✭

    Great, thanks for listening to the Scourge player's feedback Ben. Nice to know we didn't waste our time writing those posts.

  • Vegeta.2563Vegeta.2563 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Thief
    Skills
    • Larcenous Strike: Reduced the power coefficient from 15% in PvP and WvW
    • We decided not to do the following buffs;
    • Heartseeker
    • Shadow Shot
    • Infiltrator’s Strike
    Traits
    • Swindler's Equilibrium: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

    I'm ok with these changes.. however..

    • Dagger Autoattack chain: Reduced damages by 15% overall in PvP and WvW
    • Sword Autoattack chain: Reduced damages by 14% overall in PvP and WvW

    Maybe for Dagger, Wild Strike could get an endurance gain buff to make up for the damage loss? I mean if I'm gonna be hitting with a wet noodle, I think some sort of defensive alteration is needed.

    For sword, maybe perhaps, Crippling Strike could get cripple or weakness duration increase?

    Then you have skills like Signet of Agility, which endurance gain dropped from 100 to 50 for PvP, from the February 22, 2017 patch. Then later on became shared with WvW on the September 22, 2017 patch. Are these type of skills getting their own treatment as well?

  • When is this patch ? Tonight ?

  • PaRaPhReNiA.8763PaRaPhReNiA.8763 Member ✭✭✭

    @BjornIronside.6873 said:
    When is this patch ? Tonight ?

    I think they said something like "after season 10" but not a set date. I feel like today is very unlikely

  • @BjornIronside.6873 said:
    When is this patch ? Tonight ?

    This is a different occasion, they asked for player feedback before finalizing the patch ideas which means it still has to be passed to whatever Anet calls their programming team. This means it will take them at least a week most likely 2-3. My guess is April 3rd.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks!

    I've been promising a list of edits to our initial post and finally here they are! I'm hoping to get the full list re-translated and posted in all languages by mid next week.

    A few notes:
    We'd mentioned several times that we were going to consider unsplitting some things. We decided to hold off on that for now, but we will be considering unsplits for the next full balance release.

    Keep in mind that balance is a moving target. We know we have more to do!

    Mesmer
    Skills
    • Phantasmal Disenchanter – Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Illusionary Riposte: Increased the cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Illusionary Swordsman: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased the number of might stacks from 8 to 4 in PvP and WvW
    • Mirror Blade: Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW
    • Signet of the Ether: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Jaunt: Reduced damage by 50% in PvP and WvW
    Traits
    • Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 3 seconds of Exhaustion when breaking a stun
    • Bountiful Disillusionment: Reduced Stability duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased Might stacks from 5 to 3 in PvP and WvW
    • Mental Anguish: Reduced bonus damages from 15% and 30% to 10% and 20% respectively in PvP and WvW
    • Confounding Suggestions: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

    Edit: Forgot Ramage and Tornado edits in initial posting.

    What in the world? Exhaustion does not fit on EM, period. Mesmer has not flat endurance regen to balance it out, but on top of that, exhaustion doesn't address the actual issue that a stunbreak on dodge is just too powerful. Just remove the stunbreak instead. Please. Its a healthier nerf and also won't make the trait feel like shooting both of your feet off. I don't understand why you guys are so insistent on tacking on this mechanic instead of addressing the problem that EM has in a reasonable manner.

    Then you go and nerf mirror blade, mental anguish and confounding suggestions, but leave shatter storm and imagined burden alone? Look, I get it, you are trying to tone down mesmer's burst potential, and I can get behind that. But if that is your actual goal, then why would you not touch shatter storm and imagined burden? Imagined burden is honestly fine, it just combos too much with chronophantasma and Signet of the ether right now (so remove that interaction somehow, at the very least with chronophantasma), which by the way is now also getting a CD reduction as well? No complaints about that, it needed one, but it seems counterintuitive to your goal of reducing our burst potential as long as you leave imagined burden alone. Lastly disenchanter needed to be nerfed imo, but I would rather have seen it get a reduction in its damage and reduced the boon strip to 4 instead of a 50% increase in the CD.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Toron.4856Toron.4856 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks!

    I've been promising a list of edits to our initial post and finally here they are! I'm hoping to get the full list re-translated and posted in all languages by mid next week.

    A few notes:
    We'd mentioned several times that we were going to consider unsplitting some things. We decided to hold off on that for now, but we will be considering unsplits for the next full balance release.

    Keep in mind that balance is a moving target. We know we have more to do!

    Mesmer
    Skills
    • Phantasmal Disenchanter – Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Illusionary Riposte: Increased the cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Illusionary Swordsman: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased the number of might stacks from 8 to 4 in PvP and WvW
    • Mirror Blade: Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW
    • Signet of the Ether: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Jaunt: Reduced damage by 50% in PvP and WvW
    Traits
    • Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 3 seconds of Exhaustion when breaking a stun
    • Bountiful Disillusionment: Reduced Stability duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased Might stacks from 5 to 3 in PvP and WvW
    • Mental Anguish: Reduced bonus damages from 15% and 30% to 10% and 20% respectively in PvP and WvW
    • Confounding Suggestions: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

    Edit: Forgot Ramage and Tornado edits in initial posting.

    What in the world? Exhaustion does not fit on EM, period. Mesmer has not flat endurance regen to balance it out, but on top of that, exhaustion doesn't address the actual issue that a stunbreak on dodge is just too powerful. Just remove the stunbreak instead. Please. Its a healthier nerf and also won't make the trait feel like shooting both of your feet off. I don't understand why you guys are so insistent on tacking on this mechanic instead of addressing the problem that EM has in a reasonable manner.

    Then you go and nerf mirror blade, mental anguish and confounding suggestions, but leave shatter storm and imagined burden alone? Look, I get it, you are trying to tone down mesmer's burst potential, and I can get behind that. But if that is your actual goal, then why would you not touch shatter storm and imagined burden? Imagined burden is honestly fine, it just combos too much with chronophantasma and Signet of the ether right now (so remove that interaction somehow, at the very least with chronophantasma), which by the way is now also getting a CD reduction as well? No complaints about that, it needed one, but it seems counterintuitive to your goal of reducing our burst potential as long as you leave imagined burden alone. Lastly disenchanter needed to be nerfed imo, but I would rather have seen it get a reduction in its damage and reduced the boon strip to 4 instead of a 50% increase in the CD.

    Agree, just remove the stunnbreak on dodge entirely. Its just better.

  • @Toron.4856 said:
    So Ben,

    Can you already tell if the pvp balance is going to between before or after the next season?

    Can't give dates yet. Too many things can change between now and our planned release.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    where are the REvenant buffs?!?!?!?!?
    you guys buffed Jalis and mallyx ..... and now ... no buffs ...rly
    Revs needs the condicleanse
    and where are the trait changes ... WE WAITED AGES FOR THAT BALANCE... no more passiv procs

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks!
    Revenant
    Skills
    • Forced Engagement: Reduced the energy cost from 25 to 10. Increased the cooldown from 10 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

    where is the rest!?

    i mean :
    _ Coalescence of Ruin: Reduced the power coefficient of the second impact from 1.75 to 1.5 (-14%) in WvW only. Reduced the power coefficient of the third impact from 2.25 to 1.75 (-22%) in WvW only.
    Razorclaw's Rage: Increased the Bleeding duration from 2 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP and WvW
    Icerazor's Ire: Increased the Power coefficient from 3.7 to 4.6 (+24%) in PvP and WvW
    Soothing Stone: Increased the number of conditions cleansed from 3 to 5 in PvP and WvW
    Vengeful Hammers: Reduced the upkeep cost from 7 to 6 in PvP and WvW
    Embrace the Darkness: Increased the attribute bonus from 10% to 15% in PvP and WvW
    Banish Enchantments: Increased the number of boons removed from 2 to 3 in PvP and WvW
    Pain Absorption: Reduced the energy cost from 35 to 30 in PvP and WvW

    Traits

    Eye for an Eye: Increased the cooldown from 45 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only
    Versed in Stone: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only
    Soothing Bastion: Increased the cooldown from 25 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only
    

    _

    i mean changes for passivs are long waited for ALL CLASSES,
    i dont want double shrunk engis or double endure pain wars all time in every fight ....this is so dissapointing !!!!!

    also rev needs the extra condicleanse
    rly DO THE PASSIV CHANGES FOR ALL CLASSES

    YOU WERE ON THE RIGHT WAY TO BALANCE WITH THE PASSIVS!!

  • Egorum.9506Egorum.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Toron.4856 said:
    So Ben,

    Can you already tell if the pvp balance is going to between before or after the next season?

    Can't give dates yet. Too many things can change between now and our planned release.

    Thank you for keeping us updated

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    Things outside of basic numbers changes (changing the way a skill works) are not splittable.

    and that is why these changes will not save pvp/wvw

  • @Arkantos.7460 said:
    where are the REvenant buffs?!?!?!?!?
    you guys buffed Jalis and mallyx ..... and now ... no buffs ...rly
    Revs needs the condicleanse
    and where are the trait changes ... WE WAITED AGES FOR THAT BALANCE... no more passiv procs

    The changes Ben posted are "in addition to / append" to the original post by Gaile. All the other changes not mentioned are still happening.

  • floody.4951floody.4951 Member ✭✭
    edited March 14, 2018

    first of all thank you @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 for checking in on us so frequently :)
    i personally think that you delivered good changes towards nerfing current meta builds, yet many many many other weapons, heals or utilities outside of the meta are not as viable as the ones youre nerfing. balancing isnt just nerfing one thing, its about buffing other stuff to mix up things. remember gw1 with the weekly changing effects which buff this traitline and that secondary spec? i dont remember what it was called, but things like that perfectly mixed up meta and it kept the game alive.. people get bored after playing stuff for 2 months straight. i dont expect u to change meta weekly, but at least make unfavored stuff viable to enhance build diversity and maybe grow the community cuz of it :) im part of the Guild Wars franchise for more than 10 years now and the build diversity aspects were the main thing which made me enjoy the game so much..

    Engi Examples (i dont play other specs):
    -revert the grenade range nerf -> make it 1200 range again
    -continue to buff firearms traitline -> pistol will have more usage & hybrid builds get to be viable
    -revert the elixir condi cleanse nerf (change a trait in elixirs which makes condis be removed on elixir usage) -> give elixir builds a spot again
    -give us back the bomb trait which healed us on every bomb planted -> would help out core or scrapper by a huuuuge amount
    -revert some scrapper dmg nerfs -> it literally hits like a wet noodle, dmg coefficients even on marauder/demolisher are unreasonably low, even with the dmg being that low, they have no chance to survive the heavy heavy amount of unblockable burst by sd thief or huge crits of spellbreaker -> it needs some counter pressure again
    -continue buffing shield, increase its knockback range and reduce cooldowns or whatever -> alternative to rifle
    -buff sword -> the number 2 is just way out of place, a complete rework has to happen, maybe something with immobilize or even burn to make it a hybrid weapon? pleeeeeease

    thanks in advance, i hope youre taking the community serious :)

  • Tapps.1479Tapps.1479 Member ✭✭

    @Darkened.4076 said:

    @Tapps.1479 said:
    PLease take a look at soulbeast damage. on ele i'm getting bye 24k maul and 26k worldy impact. Single abilites probably shouldn't be able to do 100% of a characters life

    This sounds more like a L2P issue, than one of balance. The only way the ranger is hitting you that hard is if you are running no defense in your gear. Also, there is such a thing as dodge+evade.

    i was running ele with muraders amulet so yes zero defence but if i want to hurt anything I have to run that, demolishers might have saved me but i would only have 12k hp so I still think a 26k worldly impact would kill me. second of all both hit me from stealth, there was no animation showing it coming i was just dead, instantly.

  • Blackjack.5621Blackjack.5621 Member ✭✭
    edited March 14, 2018

    hardcore sustain nerfs and overall nerfs to most classes and the most OP build gets hit with 15% ... kinda disappointed
    http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=086d2b-1521009657.jpg

  • Sinner B.8592Sinner B.8592 Member
    edited March 14, 2018

    The druid as a support in WvW is already unwanted in most groups and these nerfs will reinforce this. This is due to the dominance of firebrand, as they can bring buffs such as resistance, stability and aegis. This leaves druid in wvw with the niche role of support in small havoc groups due to its burst healing and disengage potential, with superspeed and stealth, however buffs are not needed in a zerg engagement.
    The decrease of the healing modifiers is understandable as the general idea in pvp is tho allow things to die more often. The same could be said for WvW, however due to the glassy nature of ranged damage builds, (Staff Weaver and Hammer Rev) this was never an issue. Furthermore, the increase of the cooldown of Celestial Avatar will demolish the only WvW role in which druid shines , as mentioned above; the decrease in access to the group wide disengage will ultimately kill the role and certain havoc compositions along with it.
    The Grace of the Land Changes are also unnecessary in both gametypes as they heavily limit the +1 and teamfight value of Druid as compared to Firebrand

  • Toron.4856Toron.4856 Member ✭✭✭

    @Patrick.2987 said:

    @Blackjack.5621 said:
    hardcore sustain nerfs and overall nerfs to most classes and the most OP build gets hit with 15% ... kinda disappointed
    http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=086d2b-1521009657.jpg

    Firebrand will also remain supreme sadly. Sustain still way too good and still miles ahead in terms of healoutput to tempest for example.

    totally agree. firebrand ist gonna be meta regardless... its way superior to other support classes.

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭

    @Toron.4856 said:

    @Patrick.2987 said:

    @Blackjack.5621 said:
    hardcore sustain nerfs and overall nerfs to most classes and the most OP build gets hit with 15% ... kinda disappointed
    http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=086d2b-1521009657.jpg

    Firebrand will also remain supreme sadly. Sustain still way too good and still miles ahead in terms of healoutput to tempest for example.

    totally agree. firebrand ist gonna be meta regardless... its way superior to other support classes.

    It is entirely feasible for it to not be worth taking any support at all. For instance healing means absolutely nothing if everyone is just getting one-shot. Don't think the game is quite there yet though.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Elixir X: Reduced the duration of Tornado and Rampage transforms from 15 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced the cooldown from 105 seconds to 75 seconds in PvP and WvW
    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    • Rampage: Reduced the cooldown from 180 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced transform duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds.
    • Tornado: Reduced the cooldown from 150 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced the transform duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    Did you forget about Lich Form?

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Toron.4856 said:
    So Ben,

    Can you already tell if the pvp balance is going to between before or after the next season?

    Can't give dates yet. Too many things can change between now and our planned release.

    It'll be before the new season, because if it's after, too many players will walk away from this game. I've only been back to GW2 for like a month, and the poor state of PvP balance has me wanting to quit again already. There's literally no chance I will spent money on this game again if PvP doesn't improve before the new season.

  • Toron.4856Toron.4856 Member ✭✭✭

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @Toron.4856 said:

    @Patrick.2987 said:

    @Blackjack.5621 said:
    hardcore sustain nerfs and overall nerfs to most classes and the most OP build gets hit with 15% ... kinda disappointed
    http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=086d2b-1521009657.jpg

    Firebrand will also remain supreme sadly. Sustain still way too good and still miles ahead in terms of healoutput to tempest for example.

    totally agree. firebrand ist gonna be meta regardless... its way superior to other support classes.

    It is entirely feasible for it to not be worth taking any support at all. For instance healing means absolutely nothing if everyone is just getting one-shot. Don't think the game is quite there yet though.

    With the next patch thieves, wars, holos damage is all going to he tuned down. seems like they want to reduce the power creep.

    I agree tho its a bit of a burst meta atm. Yet 10 times better than bunker meta!

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭

    so Anet is going to keep staying silent about the unfair treatment in regards to not nerfing passive stealths and randomly buff a single skill on a single spec that supposedly can be used against it.

  • Kageseigi.2150Kageseigi.2150 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2018

    So Thief signets aren't getting a reduced cooldown?

  • Girth.9731Girth.9731 Member ✭✭

    Overall I like the changes, less passive "get of jail free cards" makes for better PvP. Though I'd rather see the traits reworked rather than just nerfed into oblivion. Also, why let mesmers off with so few changes? They are already overperforming in many repsects. Also the nerfs to warrior and holosmith damage seem very harsh, not sure those changes are appropriate.

  • Swann.2135Swann.2135 Member
    edited March 15, 2018

    «_@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks!

    I've been promising a list of edits to our initial post and finally here they are! I'm hoping to get the full list re-translated and posted in all languages by mid next week.

    A few notes:
    We'd mentioned several times that we were going to consider unsplitting some things. We decided to hold off on that for now, but we will be considering unsplits for the next full balance release.

    Keep in mind that balance is a moving target. We know we have more to do! (...)

    Elementalist
    Skills
    • Arcane Blast: Reduced the maximum Ammo count from 3 to 2 in PvP and WvW
    • Plasma Beam: Reduced damage by 20% in PvP and WvW
    • Tornado: Reduced the cooldown from 150 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced the transform duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP and WvW.
    Traits
    • Electric Discharge: Reduced the power by 28% in PvP and WvW_»

    So, Let me get this straight: you're going to change and nerf - hoping for a balance and more build variety ???!!!! - builds and specs which are overperforming in pvp. Right, I'm all on board with this. However, since when FA weaver is overperforming? Am I not playing the same Guild Wars as you guys for sure, cos I see no way in the game I have been playing that FA weaver is overperforming whatsoever. I mean , unless you're taking in consideration people who have been using MACROS for years and still didnt get banned ( maybe MACROS are not forbiden and I'm not aware of?). In any case, nerfing a build based on people abusing it is just straight up senseless.

    In addiction, bare in mind, there are currently 2 FA weaver builds and the one you're nerfing the most which is the hardest one to play has literally ONE condi cleanse - magnetic wave. Now, I don't need to explain to you - I sincerely hope - how weaver works but accessing magnetic wave - the ONE and ONLY condi cleanse - is not exactly easy as a weaver, since this spec doesnt allow access to certain skills directly and immediately with swapping attunements. This is not a gimmick build, unlike deadeye P/P or Rifle - which BTW can one shot people even more easily just by pressing one skill, Unload in P/P case, - having way more defenses no to mention access to almost perma stealth and boon spam.

    Moreover, the rest of the almost non existant defensive skills on this particular build are not accessible in the same way the only condi cleanse is not as I've mentioned above. This makes sense, because this build is about dealing damage: it is a glass build - as glassy as you can go in this game -, very high risk for....decent reward... sometimes. Now, take away the damage what is left of this? nothing, I dare to say!!! More so, ATM decent players will always LoS the burst and focus the FA removing any chance for them to do anything. This is why ATM none wants to play this - being one of the hardest builds to play - w/o using macros anyway - and this is also why none wants a FA in their team. In fact, you made elementalist class so useless in PvP, that nowdays you can feel the eyes rolling whenever there is an elementalist in the team. After all this you still want to take the only thing that makes this build viable? heck! This is what makes elementalist not completely trash in pvp!

    Balance means, according to Oxford Dictionary : « A situation in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions.». Balance also means «Establish equal or appropriate proportions of elements in». So applied to PvP, balance means tunning down builds/specs/classes which are overperforming - blocking tremendously build/spec/class diversity - to provide to PvP a more equal and proportional environment. So, balance will never be picking up all the builds available and nerfing them all blindly wheteher they are close to being called garbage or OP. This is not what balance is about.

    I don't want to go any further in my statement, I just want to say after the failure of sword weaver which ATM has really no place in the META and does nothing more than spinning around and tickling enemies with its ridiculously low damage and clunky skills that, sure makes you heal and cleanse through a lot of condis, but you have no role : as bunker you have druid, as a healer you have FB as a 1v1er you have any mirage build and you have SB and I'm not sure the upcoming changes will actually change anything in this regard. In any case, I don't understand how you can reduce a whole class to play one single build when any other class in the game have a bunch of different builds they can go with.

    Guild Wars 2 has ATM 9 classes, each class has 2 elite specs. The build variety at this point and after PoF should be tremendous, yet all you see in PvP matches is the old same old: warriors with spellbreaker, rangers with druid , guardians with FB and necromancers with scourge, being mesmer the class which can actually play with both specs and not be completely garbage - bravo! - . Please, tell me is this what you had in mind with the release of a new expansion? to send HoT specs to oblivion? where is the build variety we all thought PoF would bring? What is the logic explanation for this nerf considering damage it is all FA weaver has? Why are you punishing elementalist class even more?

    I'll end with a GW2 quote: «So many questions, not enough answers!»

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kageseigi.2150 said:
    So Thief signets aren't getting a reduced cooldown?

    Same question. The initial proposals missing from the second list. I had assumed they still going to happen.

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks!

    I've been promising a list of edits to our initial post and finally here they are! I'm hoping to get the full list re-translated and posted in all languages by mid next week.

    A few notes:
    We'd mentioned several times that we were going to consider unsplitting some things. We decided to hold off on that for now, but we will be considering unsplits for the next full balance release.

    Keep in mind that balance is a moving target. We know we have more to do!

    Warrior
    • Rampage: Reduced the cooldown from 180 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced transform duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds.

    Revenant
    Skills
    • Forced Engagement: Reduced the energy cost from 25 to 10. Increased the cooldown from 10 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

    Thief
    Skills
    • Larcenous Strike: Reduced the power coefficient from 15% in PvP and WvW
    • We decided not to do the following buffs;
    • Heartseeker
    • Shadow Shot
    • Infiltrator’s Strike
    Traits
    • Swindler's Equilibrium: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

    Ranger
    Skills
    • Seed of Life: Increased the cooldown from 1 second to 3 seconds in PvP only
    • Rejuvenating Tides: Reduced the base healing per pulse by 15% in PvP only
    • Solar Beam: Reduced the damage by 17% in PvP only
    • Celestial Avatar: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP only
    Traits
    • Refined Toxins: Increased the cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP only
    • Rugged Growth: Reduced the healing by 50% in PvP only
    • Grace of the Land: Reduced the number of Might stacks applied from 3 to 2 in PvP only
    • Fortifying Bond: Reduced duration of shared Might stacks from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only
    • "We Heal as One!:" Reduced duration of copied Might stacks from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only
    • Fresh Reinforcement: Reduced shared Might duration 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only

    Engineer
    Skills
    • Light Strike: Reduced the damage by 40% in PvP only
    • Holo Leap: Reduced the damage by 17% in PvP only
    • Corona Burst: Reduced the Might stacks granted per pulse from 2 to 1 in PvP only
    • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced the damage by 22% in PvP only
    • Detection Pulse radius increased from 600 to 1200 in PvP and WvW.

    Elementalist
    Skills
    • Arcane Blast: Reduced the maximum Ammo count from 3 to 2 in PvP and WvW
    • Plasma Beam: Reduced damage by 20% in PvP and WvW
    • Tornado: Reduced the cooldown from 150 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced the transform duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP and WvW.
    Traits
    • Electric Discharge: Reduced the power by 28% in PvP and WvW

    Mesmer
    Skills
    • Phantasmal Disenchanter – Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Illusionary Riposte: Increased the cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Illusionary Swordsman: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased the number of might stacks from 8 to 4 in PvP and WvW
    • Mirror Blade: Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW
    • Signet of the Ether: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW
    • Jaunt: Reduced damage by 50% in PvP and WvW
    Traits
    • Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 3 seconds of Exhaustion when breaking a stun
    • Bountiful Disillusionment: Reduced Stability duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased Might stacks from 5 to 3 in PvP and WvW
    • Mental Anguish: Reduced bonus damages from 15% and 30% to 10% and 20% respectively in PvP and WvW
    • Confounding Suggestions: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

    Edit: Forgot Ramage and Tornado edits in initial posting.

    So, Let me get this straight: you're going to change and nerf - hoping for a balance and more build variety ???!!!! - builds and specs which are overperforming in pvp. Right, I'm all on board with this. However, since when FA weaver is overperforming? Am I not playing the same Guild Wars as you guys for sure, cos I see no way in the game I have been playing that FA weaver is overperforming whatsoever. I mean , unless you're taking in consideration people who have been using MACROS for years and still didnt get banned ( maybe MACROS are not forbiden and I'm not aware of?). In any case, nerfing a build based on people abusing it is just straight up senseless.

    In addiction, bare in mind, there are currently 2 FA weaver builds and the one you're nerfing the most which is the hardest one to play has literally ONE condi cleanse - magnetic wave. Now, I don't need to explain to you - I sincerely hope - how weaver works but accessing magnetic wave - the ONE and ONLY condi cleanse - is not exactly easy as a weaver, since this spec doesnt allow access to certain skills directly and immediately with swapping attunements. This is not a gimmick build, unlike deadeye P/P or Rifle - which BTW can one shot people even more easily just by pressing one skill, Unload in P/P case, - having way more defenses no to mention access to almost perma stealth and boon spam.

    Moreover, the rest of the almost non existant defensive skills on this particular build are not accessible in the same way the only condi cleanse is not as I've mentioned above. This makes sense, because this build is about dealing damage: it is a glass build - as glassy as you can go in this game -, very high risk for....decent reward... sometimes. Now, take away the damage what is left of this? nothing, I dare to say!!! More so, ATM decent players will always LoS the burst and focus the FA removing any chance for them to do anything. This is why ATM none wants to play this - being one of the hardest builds to play - w/o using macros anyway - and this is also why none wants a FA in their team. In fact, you made elementalist class so useless in PvP, that nowdays you can feel the eyes rolling whenever there is an elementalist in the team. After all this you still want to take the only thing that makes this build viable? heck! This is what makes elementalist not completely trash in pvp!

    Balance means, according to Oxford Dictionary : « A situation in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions.». Balance also means «Establish equal or appropriate proportions of elements in». So applied to PvP, balance means tunning down builds/specs/classes which are overperforming - blocking tremendously build/spec/class diversity - to provide to PvP a more equal and proportional environment. So, balance will never be picking up all the builds available and nerfing them all blindly wheteher they are close to being called garbage or OP. This is not what balance is about.

    I don't want to go any further in my statement, I just want to say after the failure of sword weaver which ATM has really no place in the META and does nothing more than spinning around and tickling enemies with its ridiculously low damage and clunky skills that, sure makes you heal and cleanse through a lot of condis, but you have no role : as bunker you have druid, as a healer you have FB as a 1v1er you have any mirage build and you have SB and I'm not sure the upcoming changes will actually change anything in this regard. In any case, I don't understand how you can reduce a whole class to play one single build when any other class in the game have a bunch of different builds they can go with.

    Guild Wars 2 has ATM 9 classes, each class has 2 elite specs. The build variety at this point and after PoF should be tremendous, yet all you see in PvP matches is the old same old: warriors with spellbreaker, rangers with druid , guardians with FB and necromancers with scourge, being mesmer the class which can actually play with both specs and not be completely garbage - bravo! - . Please, tell me is this what you had in mind with the release of a new expansion? to send HoT specs to oblivion? where is the build variety we all thought PoF would bring? What is the logic explanation for this nerf considering damage it is all FA weaver has? Why are you punishing elementalist class even more?

    I'll end with a GW2 quote: «So many questions, not enough answers!»

This discussion has been closed.
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