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Recent PvP Match Manipulation


Gaile Gray.6029

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Its not likely that they gonna change their mind despite of everyone here demand deserved permanent dishonor/ban.They ruined countless amount of games for everyone every season( especially when you had 4-5 of them in 1 game) and actions been taken only recently because of wintrade posts on forums were way too frequent

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@Ioras Dagnir.3927 said:

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:The key word there is "may."

The key word was actually "terminate" since most people here agree that the response isn't harsh enough.

Ohhh of course! anet should do whateveer most people want them to do not what is actually working! makes perfect sence...

Perma bans dont work. people just get new accounts ips etc... Temporary bans are more effective. The psychological punishment is way harder. Additionally people who got cought wintrading are easier to track than if they create alt accounts. Furthermore they will be more carefull with breaking rules since they can expecct harssher punishments if they geet cought again.

To the angry mob ranging about harder punishment: It is not about the punishment it is about creating a more healthy game environmeent which is better achieved by temporary bans than by perma bans. So next time try to think alittle before you start the rage.. because maybe game deveelopers have a little more experience and knowledge when it comes to developing and managing a game than YOU!

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I asked Gail directly whether it is more effective or not. We will see next season if the temp dishonour is enough of a deterrent because I can see the pros and cons to both.A harsh response doesn't have to mean permaban either, a lot of people are asking if the rewards gained by unfair means have been redacted too.

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ok.... so Wintrade as much as you can quietly with friends and do your best to get away with it, but don't worry to much if you get caught you'll be out for a season at most....

Roger that, good to know how the system works. Let me start circle jerking the same 10 people and figure things out with them what time zone/rating we should all be in so we can start this method to boost an account over 1700 rating with no issues at all. Wait.... don't worry i'll do it on the last few days of rank so know one would know!

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@Blackdagger.9670 said:let's make an official list guys,

who were these wintraders? lets start giving some names, that will be the best punishment for them if we publicly shame them.

let the shame walk begin!

Dude you sound like you're 12.No one is going to care if you put them on display.You're giving them publicity.That's what they are known for, and that's why they do what they do.

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@Lilyanna.9361 said:

@Blackdagger.9670 said:let's make an official list guys,

who were these wintraders? lets start giving some names, that will be the best punishment for them if we publicly shame them.

let the shame walk begin!

Dude you sound like you're 12.No one is going to care if you put them on display.You're giving them publicity.That's what they are known for, and that's why they do what they do.

They are known alrdy , everyone who was looking at leaderboard know their heroes and those who suffered from countless losses because of them know them and their alt accounts and their friend who threw for them or rather helped via DC'ing when game was lost . At this point people hated them so much so threw/dc to let our beloved god of pvp win and be higher than wintraders

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@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:I'm not going to comment on anyone's specific amount of dishonor. But a general thing to know is that we have a UI bug that happens when someone has an exceptionally large amount of dishonor. In short, any screenshot for someone with large amounts of dishonor is not reliable.

Sorry, not buying what you are selling here. Suddenly there is a "UI bug" when someone has a large amount of dishonor and now the screenshots people are putting up are "unreliable"? How convenient...

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@Devilman.1532 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:I'm not going to comment on anyone's specific amount of dishonor. But a general thing to know is that we have a UI bug that happens when someone has an exceptionally large amount of dishonor. In short, any screenshot for someone with large amounts of dishonor is not reliable.

Sorry, not buying what you are selling here. Suddenly there is a "UI bug" when someone has a large amount of dishonor and now the screenshots people are putting up are "unreliable"? How convenient...

Well, we can provide proof by giving you a few years of dishonour and you can learn how the timer rolls over in weird ways. If you agree that if I'm telling the truth, I can leave it there. ;)

The bug is not "sudden." It's always been there. It not the type of bug people are going to post about and one we're in too big of a hurry to fix, given the small number of people affected.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:I'm not going to comment on anyone's specific amount of dishonor. But a general thing to know is that we have a UI bug that happens when someone has an exceptionally large amount of dishonor. In short, any screenshot for someone with large amounts of dishonor is not reliable.

Sorry, not buying what you are selling here. Suddenly there is a "UI bug" when someone has a large amount of dishonor and now the screenshots people are putting up are "unreliable"? How convenient...

Well, we can provide proof by giving you a few years of dishonour and you can learn how the timer rolls over in weird ways. If you agree that if I'm telling the truth, I can leave it there. ;)

The bug is not "sudden." It's always been there. It not the type of bug people are going to post about and one we're in too big of a hurry to fix, given the small number of people affected.

Open threats are not the best way to relate with your customers. Threatening to do something amazingly heavy handed and unwarranted when someone doesn't agree with you or believe your statements is in very poor taste. I haven't broken any rules or violated the TOS in the incredible ways the offenders discussed here have who have received much, much less...

Anyhow, have a nice day.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:I'm not going to comment on anyone's specific amount of dishonor. But a general thing to know is that we have a UI bug that happens when someone has an exceptionally large amount of dishonor. In short, any screenshot for someone with large amounts of dishonor is not reliable.

Sorry, not buying what you are selling here. Suddenly there is a "UI bug" when someone has a large amount of dishonor and now the screenshots people are putting up are "unreliable"? How convenient...

Well, we can provide proof by giving you a few years of dishonour and you can learn how the timer rolls over in weird ways. If you agree that if I'm telling the truth, I can leave it there. ;)

The bug is not "sudden." It's always been there. It not the type of bug people are going to post about and one we're in too big of a hurry to fix, given the small number of people affected.

It’s not the big issue that gets me. It’s how, after it’s already been publicly announced, that you respond by saying you won’t comment on someone’s specific amount. It’s a yes so and so revieved X amount of dishonor or no they did not. If it’s no they didn’t and now there’s a “bug” then that’s the issue. If they recieved the three months like they were supposed to there’s no need to not comment.

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@Devilman.1532 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

Well, we can provide proof by giving you a few years of dishonour and you can learn how the timer rolls over in weird ways. If you agree that if I'm telling the truth, I can leave it there. ;)

The bug is not "sudden." It's always been there. It not the type of bug people are going to post about and one we're in too big of a hurry to fix, given the small number of people affected.

Open threats are not the best way to relate with your customers. Threatening to do something amazingly heavy handed and unwarranted when someone doesn't agree with you or believe your statements is in very poor taste. I haven't broken any rules or violated the TOS in the incredible ways the offenders discussed here have who have received much, much less...

Anyhow, have a nice day.

That wasn't a threat. It was a joke as seen by a) how ridiculous it would be for an employee to react in such an overblown manner, and b) the winking smiley face at the end of the comment which acts as a symbol for "this is a joke".

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

It’s not the big issue that gets me. It’s how, after it’s already been publicly announced, that you respond by saying you won’t comment on someone’s specific amount. It’s a yes so and so revieved X amount of dishonor or no they did not. If it’s no they didn’t and now there’s a “bug” then that’s the issue. If they recieved the three months like they were supposed to there’s no need to not comment.

Purposefully not commenting on an individual's situation on a public forum is standard practice for companies; there is generally nothing to gain but a lot to lose. You wishing it wasn't so won't change the practice. You've been given all the information you need to come to a general understanding of the situation. There is no reason for you to know specifically what's going on with another person's account.

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@Greener.6204 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

Well, we can provide proof by giving you a few years of dishonour and you can learn how the timer rolls over in weird ways. If you agree that if I'm telling the truth, I can leave it there. ;)

The bug is not "sudden." It's always been there. It not the type of bug people are going to post about and one we're in too big of a hurry to fix, given the small number of people affected.

Open threats are not the best way to relate with your customers. Threatening to do something amazingly heavy handed and unwarranted when someone doesn't agree with you or believe your statements is in very poor taste. I haven't broken any rules or violated the TOS in the incredible ways the offenders discussed here have who have received much, much less...

Anyhow, have a nice day.

That wasn't a threat. It was a joke as seen by a) how ridiculous it would be for an employee to react in such an overblown manner, and b) the winking smiley face at the end of the comment which acts as a symbol for "this is a joke".

It’s not the big issue that gets me. It’s how, after it’s already been publicly announced, that you respond by saying you won’t comment on someone’s specific amount. It’s a yes so and so revieved X amount of dishonor or no they did not. If it’s no they didn’t and now there’s a “bug” then that’s the issue. If they recieved the three months like they were supposed to there’s no need to not comment.

Purposefully not commenting on an individual's situation on a public forum is standard practice for companies; there is generally nothing to gain but a lot to lose. You wishing it wasn't so won't change the practice. You've been given all the information you need to come to a general understanding of the situation. There is no reason for you to know specifically what's going on with another person's account.

A winky smiley face is not the international symbol for a joke pal. Also they have been this ham fisted in the past.

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@Greener.6204 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

Well, we can provide proof by giving you a few years of dishonour and you can learn how the timer rolls over in weird ways. If you agree that if I'm telling the truth, I can leave it there. ;)

The bug is not "sudden." It's always been there. It not the type of bug people are going to post about and one we're in too big of a hurry to fix, given the small number of people affected.

Open threats are not the best way to relate with your customers. Threatening to do something amazingly heavy handed and unwarranted when someone doesn't agree with you or believe your statements is in very poor taste. I haven't broken any rules or violated the TOS in the incredible ways the offenders discussed here have who have received much, much less...

Anyhow, have a nice day.

That wasn't a threat. It was a joke as seen by a) how ridiculous it would be for an employee to react in such an overblown manner, and b) the winking smiley face at the end of the comment which acts as a symbol for "this is a joke".

It’s not the big issue that gets me. It’s how, after it’s already been publicly announced, that you respond by saying you won’t comment on someone’s specific amount. It’s a yes so and so revieved X amount of dishonor or no they did not. If it’s no they didn’t and now there’s a “bug” then that’s the issue. If they recieved the three months like they were supposed to there’s no need to not comment.

Purposefully not commenting on an individual's situation on a public forum is standard practice for companies; there is generally nothing to gain but a lot to lose. You wishing it wasn't so won't change the practice. You've been given all the information you need to come to a general understanding of the situation. There is no reason for you to know specifically what's going on with another person's account.

And to think people have called me out for supporting ANets choices..... but this, is a whole new level of white-knighting.WINKYFACE ;)

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@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

Well, we can provide proof by giving you a few years of dishonour and you can learn how the timer rolls over in weird ways. If you agree that if I'm telling the truth, I can leave it there. ;)

The bug is not "sudden." It's always been there. It not the type of bug people are going to post about and one we're in too big of a hurry to fix, given the small number of people affected.

Open threats are not the best way to relate with your customers. Threatening to do something amazingly heavy handed and unwarranted when someone doesn't agree with you or believe your statements is in very poor taste. I haven't broken any rules or violated the TOS in the incredible ways the offenders discussed here have who have received much, much less...

Anyhow, have a nice day.

That wasn't a threat. It was a joke as seen by a) how ridiculous it would be for an employee to react in such an overblown manner, and b) the winking smiley face at the end of the comment which acts as a symbol for "this is a joke".

It’s not the big issue that gets me. It’s how, after it’s already been publicly announced, that you respond by saying you won’t comment on someone’s specific amount. It’s a yes so and so revieved X amount of dishonor or no they did not. If it’s no they didn’t and now there’s a “bug” then that’s the issue. If they recieved the three months like they were supposed to there’s no need to not comment.

Purposefully not commenting on an individual's situation on a public forum is standard practice for companies; there is generally nothing to gain but a lot to lose. You wishing it wasn't so won't change the practice. You've been given all the information you need to come to a general understanding of the situation. There is no reason for you to know specifically what's going on with another person's account.

And to think people have called me out for supporting ANets choices..... but this, is a whole new level of white-knighting.WINKYFACE ;)

Jerk... you almost just made me friggin nose volcano mah Fuji water lmao

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Sorry if my humor was unclear! Though, getting lot of dishonour really would be the only way I can prove to you that UI bug exists if you're not willing to take my word for it.

I think in essence what many others and myself are looking for are assurance that all those guilty of match manipulation receive severe punishment, not just some people picked and chosen. If discipline is going to mean anything it has to be unilateral and have teeth. Seeing folks who ruin the game mode for the honest players and then laugh at them and also spit in you (ANet's ) faces due to very weak penalties causes people to have no faith in the company or its statements.

This game mode is a complete and total mess. A little real transparency would a long way to regaining trust. That and on going STRONG efforts to police the game mode and clean up the rampant out of control cheating and hacking that goes on every day.

Obscuring parts of the story only destroy any credibility that still exists.

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Ben, please ban players that use the speed hack. It's an unfair advantage for cheaters that has compromised the integrity of the PvP community.

It ruins the game for honest players and prevents GW2 being taken seriously by e-sports or other pro leagues communities.

It's time to take action and stop pretending it isn't happening. Gold and gem sales will increase overall due to the good will created from banning all forms of botting or hackers in this game. This issue can only help your bottom line and generate more revenue.

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@Greener.6204 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

Well, we can provide proof by giving you a few years of dishonour and you can learn how the timer rolls over in weird ways. If you agree that if I'm telling the truth, I can leave it there. ;)

The bug is not "sudden." It's always been there. It not the type of bug people are going to post about and one we're in too big of a hurry to fix, given the small number of people affected.

Open threats are not the best way to relate with your customers. Threatening to do something amazingly heavy handed and unwarranted when someone doesn't agree with you or believe your statements is in very poor taste. I haven't broken any rules or violated the TOS in the incredible ways the offenders discussed here have who have received much, much less...

Anyhow, have a nice day.

That wasn't a threat. It was a joke as seen by a) how ridiculous it would be for an employee to react in such an overblown manner, and b) the winking smiley face at the end of the comment which acts as a symbol for "this is a joke".

It’s not the big issue that gets me. It’s how, after it’s already been publicly announced, that you respond by saying you won’t comment on someone’s specific amount. It’s a yes so and so revieved X amount of dishonor or no they did not. If it’s no they didn’t and now there’s a “bug” then that’s the issue. If they recieved the three months like they were supposed to there’s no need to not comment.

Purposefully not commenting on an individual's situation on a public forum is standard practice for companies; there is generally nothing to gain but a lot to lose. You wishing it wasn't so won't change the practice. You've been given all the information you need to come to a general understanding of the situation. There is no reason for you to know specifically what's going on with another person's account.

Except they already have. We know how recieved dishonor when the leaderboards has multiple people removed. Then they post on an open forum what happened to them. The door is there and standing wide open. While it is a concern it’s not the main issue. The main issues are one it’s beem allowed to go on for as long as it did and they just know recieve punishment, that they only hit on the high points for win trading, that there’s still no word on what’s being done for speed hacks and that people are still speed hacking.

If you’re going to address one you have to address the others as well. And if there is such a bug it’s the first I’ve heard about and it’s just now being stated it’s there.

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@Lilyanna.9361 said:

@"Blackdagger.9670" said:let's make an official list guys,

who were these wintraders? lets start giving some names, that will be the best punishment for them if we publicly shame them.

let the shame walk begin!

Dude you sound like you're 12.No one is going to care if you put them on display.You're giving them publicity.That's what they are known for, and that's why they do what they do.

Actually, all I see in this thread is; people complaining heavlily about ineffectiveness of 3 months dishonor.So, we know that some of these Wintraders even have youtube channels and they are trying to attract players into their channels by putting game play videos constantly. Therefore, its clear that they care reputation. Why not destroying it?

Their goal is to obtain High tier PvP titles just to impress people, and earning respect over the pvp community. Creating a black list in this manner would hurt their "name" for sure.

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Couple things.

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:careful investigation

Appreciate it.

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:Dishonor for a period of three months. We will continue to monitor the game for incidents of this sort, and will take action on other accounts as the situation warrants it.

@Toron.4856 said:

@bluri.2653 said:You should consider permanent dishonor instead so these players never get to set foot in pvpyou should really permadishonor those people. seriously. those people ruin the pvp experience for the entire community. do u think they will stop after this season? i doubt it.

See above. They exploited game mechanics and ruined a lot of matches for a lot of legitimate people. That doesn't warrant a ban from the game, but a ban from pvp absolutely.

@Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

Perma bans dont work. people just get new accounts ips etc... Temporary bans are more effective. The psychological punishment is way harder. Additionally people who got cought wintrading are easier to track than if they create alt accounts. Furthermore they will be more carefull with breaking rules since they can expecct harssher punishments if they geet cought again.

To the angry mob ranging about harder punishment: It is not about the punishment it is about creating a more healthy game environmeent which is better achieved by temporary bans than by perma bans. So next time try to think alittle before you start the rage.. because maybe game deveelopers have a little more experience and knowledge when it comes to developing and managing a game than YOU!

I'd personally be more psychologically punished if my main account was permanently flagged with dishonor. Consider that wintraders ruined the pvp experience for potentially hundreds of people to have their name placed on a leaderboard. Most of us arent talking about a perm ban from the game, just an inability to ever PVP on that account. That being said, you have some points. its easier to weed out people who are hellbent on ruining the ranked experience vs people who just think doing it goes unpunished with temporary bans, so perhaps it's reasonable for now. I only say so tentatively though. I'd be fine with them getting more.

@Devilman.1532 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Sorry if my humor was unclear! Though, getting lot of dishonour really would be the only way I can prove to you that UI bug exists if you're not willing to take my word for it.

I think in essence what many others and myself are looking for are assurance that all those guilty of match manipulation receive severe punishment, not just some people picked and chosen. If discipline is going to mean anything it has to be unilateral and have teeth. Seeing folks who ruin the game mode for the honest players and then laugh at them and also spit in you (ANet's ) faces due to very weak penalties causes people to have no faith in the company or its statements.

This game mode is a complete and total mess. A little real transparency would a long way to regaining trust. That and on going STRONG efforts to police the game mode and clean up the rampant out of control cheating and hacking that goes on every day.

Obscuring parts of the story only destroy any credibility that still exists.

I don't agree with the chilly response to what is obviously an attempt at humor, but Devilman's intent is correct. If we're going to punish people for ruining the PVP experience and stomping on an already dying game mode, the punishment needs to be visible and discouraging enough that people don't continue their toxic behavior if released,. If they are released at all.

and if you are able to give -years- of dishonor, making wintraders sit out for four seasons sounds wonderful.

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:Couple things.

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:careful investigation

Appreciate it.

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:Dishonor for a period of three months. We will continue to monitor the game for incidents of this sort, and will take action on other accounts as the situation warrants it.

@bluri.2653 said:You should consider permanent dishonor instead so these players never get to set foot in pvpyou should really permadishonor those people. seriously. those people ruin the pvp experience for the entire community. do u think they will stop after this season? i doubt it.

See above. They exploited game mechanics and ruined a lot of matches for a lot of legitimate people. That doesn't warrant a ban from the game, but a ban from pvp absolutely.

Perma bans dont work. people just get new accounts ips etc... Temporary bans are more effective. The psychological punishment is way harder. Additionally people who got cought wintrading are easier to track than if they create alt accounts. Furthermore they will be more carefull with breaking rules since they can expecct harssher punishments if they geet cought again.

To the angry mob ranging about harder punishment: It is not about the punishment it is about creating a more healthy game environmeent which is better achieved by temporary bans than by perma bans. So next time try to think alittle before you start the rage.. because maybe game deveelopers have a little more experience and knowledge when it comes to developing and managing a game than YOU!

I'd personally be more psychologically punished if my main account was permanently flagged with dishonor. Consider that wintraders ruined the pvp experience for potentially hundreds of people to have their name placed on a leaderboard. Most of us arent talking about a perm ban from the game, just an inability to ever PVP on that account. That being said, you have some points. its easier to weed out people who are hellbent on ruining the ranked experience vs people who just think doing it goes unpunished with temporary bans, so perhaps it's reasonable for now. I only say so tentatively though. I'd be fine with them getting more.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Sorry if my humor was unclear! Though, getting lot of dishonour really would be the only way I can prove to you that UI bug exists if you're not willing to take my word for it.

I think in essence what many others and myself are looking for are assurance that all those guilty of match manipulation receive severe punishment, not just some people picked and chosen. If discipline is going to mean anything it has to be unilateral and have teeth. Seeing folks who ruin the game mode for the honest players and then laugh at them and also spit in you (ANet's ) faces due to very weak penalties causes people to have no faith in the company or its statements.

This game mode is a complete and total mess. A little real transparency would a long way to regaining trust. That and on going STRONG efforts to police the game mode and clean up the rampant out of control cheating and hacking that goes on every day.

Obscuring parts of the story only destroy any credibility that still exists.

I don't agree with the chilly response to what is obviously an attempt at humor, but Devilman's intent is correct. If we're going to punish people for ruining the PVP experience and stomping on an already dying game mode, the punishment needs to be visible and discouraging enough that people don't continue their toxic behavior if released,. If they are released at all.

and if you are able to give -years- of dishonor, making wintraders sit out for four seasons sounds wonderful.

I Second this.....

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@Devilman.1532 said:

Open threats are not the best way to relate with your customers. Threatening to do something amazingly heavy handed and unwarranted when someone doesn't agree with you or believe your statements is in very poor taste. I haven't broken any rules or violated the TOS in the incredible ways the offenders discussed here have who have received much, much less...

Anyhow, have a nice day.

Jesus,..man, get yourself together...

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:I'm not going to comment on anyone's specific amount of dishonor. But a general thing to know is that we have a UI bug that happens when someone has an exceptionally large amount of dishonor. In short, any screenshot for someone with large amounts of dishonor is not reliable.

Sorry, not buying what you are selling here. Suddenly there is a "UI bug" when someone has a large amount of dishonor and now the screenshots people are putting up are "unreliable"? How convenient...

Well, we can provide proof by giving you a few years of dishonour and you can learn how the timer rolls over in weird ways. If you agree that if I'm telling the truth, I can leave it there. ;)

The bug is not "sudden." It's always been there. It not the type of bug people are going to post about and one we're in too big of a hurry to fix, given the small number of people affected.

Careful you might get banned from the forums. I made a comment which I intended to be funny in the forums once, not nearly as dark as yours, I was warned by a forum moderator! Gotta watch out for those guys!

In seriousness through if your reasoning behind the 3 month ban is in favour of moderating them more easily then I can understand it. I also know that I've said some salty stuff I have come to regret when I've been tilted in sPvP in the past, and I'd hate to be perma banned for that. I understand win trading is different in it being completely intentional though.

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Ty! Might give pvp a try next season. But cant help but wonder: Why not perma dishonor? Have they lost their past rewards? Are they unable to queue AT's as well? What about alts?

You have to make sure these people are "well locked", they did enough harm to the game, gamemode and community to deserve that.

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