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Why so few engineers?


Echoherb.6528

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@mauried.5608 said:Ive never bothered with any kind of optimization nor do I worry about the speed of levelling as the entire purpose of playing the game is simply to consume my time in an enjoyable way.Why does the game have to be played in the fastest possible way?

It doesn't. But for most people it makes the game boring to have fights more grindy.

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https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29690/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release/p1

take this reason why so few peoples play the engineer as an example :

-reduce damage between 40-15% on 3 skills of the Holosmith , the only semi-viable dps spec we have at moment-Increase the damage of the mortar skills of 40% more or less , a very slow kit usefull more for teh combos tahn for his actual hit capacity (in WvW your hits will get reflected a lot in zerg fights , and when i say a lot i mean 60-70% of the times with all the reflection/projectile destruction skills going on there)-Some reduced CD from pistol skills , things we were asking from years for the no-sense (look at pistol 5...come on) , but now totally useless since our conditions are nothing compared to other classes (even ranger and theives can now apply a more efficient condi BURST in pvp and WvW compared to us.

This would be fine to promote the skill/build diversity , too bad aside from holosmith we can just go play a failed tank with not even enough self sustain for WvW roaming , or we can go play a core class with....ehm nothing?!

Now , with the "small" dps increase on theif....basically untouched insane self sustain/hight DPS druid build that is becoming more and more out of control , untouched mesmers redicously easy-mode oneshot build going on at moment , tell me if it's easyer understand why so few peoples play engineer.The balance team is completely disconnected from the class , i think they make balance based on the roaming videos they see on youtube : so if a decent engineer makes a video going around stomping complete noobs that are walking clueless in WvW...they nerf engineer :D .

My opinions...just my opinions...calm down (to the engy white knights out there ).

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My main and still most games played is on engi but aftrr hot i slowly switch to revenant. Kind of a mistake haha. Went from second least popular to least popular.

I miss engi, the real engi. Not these warrior like especs. I miss p/s triple kit condi engi. That was an amazing spec, fun and rewarding.

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@"Nirvana.8659" said:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29690/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release/p1

take this reason why so few peoples play the engineer as an example :

-reduce damage between 40-15% on 3 skills of the Holosmith , the only semi-viable dps spec we have at moment-Increase the damage of the mortar skills of 40% more or less , a very slow kit usefull more for teh combos tahn for his actual hit capacity (in WvW your hits will get reflected a lot in zerg fights , and when i say a lot i mean 60-70% of the times with all the reflection/projectile destruction skills going on there)-Some reduced CD from pistol skills , things we were asking from years for the no-sense (look at pistol 5...come on) , but now totally useless since our conditions are nothing compared to other classes (even ranger and theives can now apply a more efficient condi BURST in pvp and WvW compared to us.

This would be fine to promote the skill/build diversity , too bad aside from holosmith we can just go play a failed tank with not even enough self sustain for WvW roaming , or we can go play a core class with....ehm nothing?!

Now , with the "small" dps increase on theif....basically untouched insane self sustain/hight DPS druid build that is becoming more and more out of control , untouched mesmers redicously easy-mode oneshot build going on at moment , tell me if it's easyer understand why so few peoples play engineer.The balance team is completely disconnected from the class , i think they make balance based on the roaming videos they see on youtube : so if a decent engineer makes a video going around stomping complete noobs that are walking clueless in WvW...they nerf engineer :D .

My opinions...just my opinions...calm down (to the engy white knights out there ).

It's pretty apparent to me that ArenaNet's balance team doesn't have anybody who mains engineer on it. I made some suggestions to hopefully temper the nerfs with buffs elsewhere. I hope they actually listen to my suggestions.

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@"coglin.1496" said:This an unreasonable statement. The engineer players in the community cannot even come close to agreeing on things they want.

There are issues most decent PVP/WVW engineers can agree on that need adressing. The way in which the fixes come is less important as long as there at least is an attempt in fixing the issue, instead of just ignoring them which they are doing now. for example: The clunkyness of med kit skills, less randomness in skills like mine placement or elixir h boon application (making healing skills more competitive in general), a reliable long ranged power weapon for in the utility/elite skill slot (= changes to grenade kit or mortar kit), making a serious attempt in making the utility skill turrets more usefull, Static discharge that doesn't shoot in the ground with certain skills, ....

Looking at med kit's #2-5 skills I just assume that the people who create/release something horrible like that are not competent PVP/WVW engi players (I assume it's not malintent) What other reasons can there be for these obvious bad decisions (to anyone who plays the game on an above casual level) or the nonsensical "balance" changes they often do.

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@"Slyven.8637" said:"That was a mouthful"That's an understatement. You're also forgetting about all these core nerfs over the past few months. There used to be that skill that gave Swiftness on Crit, which synergized nicely with Pack runes, as well as Vigor from Swiftness. Well RIP that. Experiments that make the class interesting keep getting sapped away.

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@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Echoherb.6528 said:Is it because it's complicated? Elementalists are complicated but there's way more of those. Is it the theme? I can kind of see people wanting more of a magically themed class in this kind of game, but at the same time there are plenty of warriors and thieves. Is it because they are difficult to play? Once again I think ele is also very difficult to play and I see a lot of those. I'm curious what's causes so few people to play them.

Several reasons:
  • Unintuitive design
    • By that I mean that primary weapons are weak, most of your real damage is in your kits, or PF.
  • Aesthetically different from other classes (tech instead of magic)
  • The interesting skills and traits are objectively worse than the boring ones.
  • Except for PF, not a very flashy class.
  • Takes more effort to get the same result other classes get
  • Lack of effort from ANet devs to keep the class up to date. Lots of traits and skills have languished for years with no real change.

constant unnecesary nerfs too

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thing is, I played engi 5 years ago. I just returned to the game and it seems exactly the same but weaker. Holosmith just seems like an entirely different profession completely, and I have yet to try out scrapper, but it doesn't seem to be doing so well according to what people are saying. Hopefully engi will be getting some much needed love.

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@Echoherb.6528 said:Thing is, I played engi 5 years ago. I just returned to the game and it seems exactly the same but weaker. Holosmith just seems like an entirely different profession completely, and I have yet to try out scrapper, but it doesn't seem to be doing so well according to what people are saying. Hopefully engi will be getting some much needed love.

Core is weaker, because they keep nerfing it to try and nerf holosmith. I don't understand their logic, as it just makes things worse for bringing up the rest of the class.

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@InsaneQR.7412 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:The engie needed a redesign more than the mesmer.Every class actually needs a second look to update core to the current state of the game, some just less than others.

True... but Engie would honestly be the first thing I'd touch. I am mostly a thief main mind you. So this isn't me being bias. But when I tried playing the Engine up to level 60 if I remember correctly... I just couldn't figure out what the hell I was doing. I'm not saying it's too complicated. To me that'd be the charm of the Engie if you can figure him out, and actually get rewarded greatly for it. It's just not intuitive.

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@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:The engie needed a redesign more than the mesmer.Every class actually needs a second look to update core to the current state of the game, some just less than others.

True... but Engie would honestly be the first thing I'd touch. I am mostly a thief main mind you. So this isn't me being bias. But when I tried playing the Engine up to level 60 if I remember correctly... I just couldn't figure out what the hell I was doing. I'm not saying it's too complicated. To me that'd be the charm of the Engie if you can figure him out, and actually get rewarded greatly for it. It's just not intuitive.

You juggle a ton of skills between different kits and the toolbelt, or you could just equip flamethrower and autoattack for the same amount of damage. Do that for 80 levels and finally you can play holosmith and pretend you aren't playing engi anymore.

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i just dont like the majority of the style of the engi. I want to like it because these classes are usually cool, but i just think its flavor of technology based class is sorta weak. The guns are weak and seem to be like they're from the goonies or inspector gadget. Turrets don't look that cool. The kit emphasis means that in a lot of builds you wont see your cool legendary weapons. I hate the word 'gadgets' and the toolbelt mechanic is barely a mechanic and more like they couldn't think of anything else. The core elite skills are pretty lame, the supply crate is cool though. I like the theme of the elite specs but, I have to like the core profession to be able to stick with a class.

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@mauried.5608 said:Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@mauried.5608 said:Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

Don't let the GW2 Reddit hear you say that. You will get down voted into oblivion and flamed.

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"mauried.5608" said:Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

raids did not make the game worse. dps meter maybe did a thing, because you can visually minmax situations now by dps, not just by time - hence "ban" professions from encounters.does nobody recall the days of fiery greatsword? x ele + something that stacks might ... or more specifically the dungeon "meta" (the meaning of that abrevation: most effective tactic available) before raids existed? it was as cancerous and toxic as it is today.

(to keep it a bit on topic... engineers were never part of any of those metas. if you had an engineer somewhere the profession was a toolkit for fire fields, smoke fields an blasts. all of which could be done (better) by a thief - except fire fields.)

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the theme could have been amazing but alas it failed

lack of weapons : because we have tons of other options , granades , flamethrower , ect

having to juggle multiple cooldowns that u cant even see.

if Engineer is all about tech why dont create something cool and awesome , hell look at asura , always creating cool things that made u go woahh, but engin cant have that because?

not flashy enough , when u have proffs like Ele , Mesmer , guardian that are all about cool effects , ice , lightning , buttlerflies , blue fire , tomes , hell even warrior the most "simple" class ever , smash / crush / slash things around and looks badass .

There is no point in playing Eng , when u can play something more fun and rewarding.

there has been games that added Engineers and were tons of fun (Warhammer engineer , Dragon nest (tinkerer - gear master or alchemist both tons of fun) , and maybe even FFXIV machinist)

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