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Matchmaking algorithm too rigged,


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@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:But hey what do I know? My "personal experience" of 6 years and 12,000 matches in no way counts as evidence next to an official statement.

Correct. Your personal experience is just that: personal.1000 statements by 1000 players that they think it's rigged doesn't even mean that they are seeing unusual results. It just means that they think they are seeing something non-random. Without actual data, collected from a variety of people under neutral conditions, we can't actually say one way or the other.

The difference between your comment and @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"'s is that ANet bases theirs on the data. (Whether you choose to believe their data since they aren't releasing it in detail is a different matter. I can understand why some might distrust the Authority with a vaguely vested interest in the outcome of their analysis.)

You can repeat your theory all you like, but without seeing the data, it's still just your theory, no matter how many other people believe it. It's similar to the myth that full moons generate crazier behavior: there are 1000s if not millions of nurses, cops, teachers, and night club bouncers who believe it because that's what they see every full moon. But it turns out that every data-driven analysis shows that folks are suffering from a variety of unintentional biases: for example, they remember every weird thing that happens on a full moon, but don't give us much weight to the weird things the other 26-8 days of the lunar cycle. For example, they forget that paydays and fridays also tend to bring out more "notable events" and control for the coincidence of a full moon happening on such a day.

You want to convince anyone other than people who are already convinced? Show your data.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Hasn't there been statements by developers stating that that average distance in player score between highest and lowest players per game is less than 50?

No. The average skill rating between teams is less than 50. The deviation is higher than that. Don't have the number off the top of my head though.

We do our best to get the standard deviation as close as we can though.

And no, I say it often, we don't rig matches to end loss or win streaks. But many people will never believe it.

in the far far future !is their a chance we can get rid of profession(or elite specialization) stacking in PVP plz ?

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@yanniell.1236 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:Hasn't there been statements by developers stating that that average distance in player score between highest and lowest players per game is less than 50?

No. The average skill rating between teams is less than 50. The deviation is higher than that. Don't have the number off the top of my head though.

We do our best to get the standard deviation as close as we can though.

And no, I say it often, we don't rig matches to end loss or win streaks. But many people will never believe it.

You wouldn't have these complaints if the game showed people's rank before/after the match.

i still don't believe games are " equally" balance in terms of "rating" when a match starts. When a game is " 210-500" theirs absolutely no way that was a class rating match up at all.

My biggest issue i seen within the last week is TOP rated players within the top 1-30 on the same TEAM, however you look around for your team/players and you see that NOT a single one of them even top 250..... yet the system matched me against 3 highly top rated players.

THE ONLY reason I know for sure they don't want to show it is because it isn't an "equal" rating match up, IF it was then their wouldn't be an issue at ALL to show every badge or the TEAM overall rating.

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I've been in the same win/loss streak that everyone has experienced in Ranked PvP

But it could it be possible, because the size of the player base (small) that you end up playing with the same people because those are the only people near your rating?

There are far too many factors and not enough players to make Ranked PvP fair. And to be fair to Anet, there would never be enough players.-the skill levels of players-the timing of when people get on-The strength of the class and spec (anet will NEVER factor this in and it's always changing)
-Add in class stacking, something they have yet to address (or class switching)

Do players in Overwatch complain about matchmaking as much as GW2 peeps ?

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Hasn't there been statements by developers stating that that average distance in player score between highest and lowest players per game is less than 50?

No. The average skill rating between teams is less than 50. The deviation is higher than that. Don't have the number off the top of my head though.

We do our best to get the standard deviation as close as we can though.

And no, I say it often, we don't rig matches to end loss or win streaks. But many people will never believe it.

I personally believe that you don't have created intentionally a system of wins/loses streaks.

But the fact is that it really, truly, is happening in the game. Like Trevor Boyer.6524 said, it happens at a certain point and it always has the same form : lose or win because our team is either much stronger or either much weaker than ennemy team. And it happens for numerous matches in a row. It's the reality for many players who play a lot in pvp.

It's just not possible with just random or luck, that someone can lose 9/10 matches in a row then win 9/10 matches in row after.

We don't accuse you to have deliberately put this system in the matchmaking but please, consider that your system is really fonctionning like this for some reasons.

Please, put some thoughts about it.

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:But hey what do I know? My "personal experience" of 6 years and 12,000 matches in no way counts as evidence next to an official statement.

Correct. Your personal experience is just that: personal.1000 statements by 1000 players that they think it's rigged doesn't even mean that they are seeing unusual results. It just means that they think they are seeing something non-random. Without actual data, collected from a variety of people under neutral conditions, we can't actually say one way or the other.

The difference between your comment and @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"'s is that ANet bases theirs on the data. (Whether you choose to believe their data since they aren't releasing it in detail is a different matter. I can understand why some might distrust the Authority with a vaguely vested interest in the outcome of their analysis.)

You can repeat your theory all you like, but without seeing the data, it's still just your theory, no matter how many other people believe it. It's similar to the myth that full moons generate crazier behavior: there are 1000s if not millions of nurses, cops, teachers, and night club bouncers who believe it because that's what they see every full moon. But it turns out that every data-driven analysis shows that folks are suffering from a variety of unintentional biases: for example, they remember every weird thing that happens on a full moon, but don't give us much weight to the weird things the other 26-8 days of the lunar cycle. For example, they forget that paydays and fridays also tend to bring out more "notable events" and control for the coincidence of a full moon happening on such a day.

You want to convince anyone other than people who are already convinced? Show your data.

You're still arguing with me on some flaccid point about the difference between personal experience and evidence, whilst user after user is posting personal experience feedback in this thread, tossing affirmation after affirmation, saying they are experiencing the exact same thing that the OP and myself have explained. The only real debate in any of this, is if people believe the matches are straight up rigged or not. But the patterns we are talking about, are definitely happening.

Like I said before, at what point do you acknowledge the 6 sider endlessly rolling 1s as incriminating evidence, rather than superstition.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:And no, I say it often, we don't rig matches to end loss or win streaks. But many people will never believe it.It's all down to the fact that many people significantly overestimate their own skill level, so they prefer blaming the matchmaking mechanics for not reaching a higher tier. It's always been like that. What's more ridiculous is that certain individuals claim their own 'personal experience' is more of an evidence than any factual, hard data.Don't bother with them, it's not worth it.

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That's the reason I've been stuck in Gold3 for the past 2 seasons. Once you get close to 1500 rating, the matches become extremely one sided, you get steamrolled so hard. Last seasons I think I was 2 or 3 games away before going on a 8 or 10 match lose streak.So either my personal "skill" dropped like a brick overnight, or there's something wrong with the MMR.

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@rank eleven monk.9502 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:And no, I say it often, we don't rig matches to end loss or win streaks. But many people will never believe it.It's all down to the fact that many people significantly overestimate their own skill level, so they prefer blaming the matchmaking mechanics for not reaching a higher tier. It's always been like that. What's more ridiculous is that certain individuals claim their own 'personal experience' is more of an evidence than any factual, hard data.Don't bother with them, it's not worth it.If you play a lot, you remember players names. If you roflstomp enemy today, climb and then you see him tomorrow in your team working as rally bot, it raises questions. Or in one match your team die faster than you can run from close to mid, but next match starts with chat like this "i hope all plats here? - im top X, im top X...", then your team wins 500x50. Huh?

I heared one game developer (blizzards?) said they intentionally make some games too easy or too hard, because:1) Their matchmaking is too good, it could make 50/50 matches too often, so testers say they are tired of hard matches.2) Easy matches let players feel good.3) Hard matches give experience.

I can't prove it. May be im mistaken. Just my thoughts. I don't think it is right decision and i hope arena.net don't implement such thing.

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@rank eleven monk.9502 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:And no, I say it often, we don't rig matches to end loss or win streaks. But many people will never believe it.It's all down to the fact that many people significantly overestimate their own skill level, so they prefer blaming the matchmaking mechanics for not reaching a higher tier. It's always been like that. What's more ridiculous is that certain individuals claim their own 'personal experience' is more of an evidence than any factual, hard data.Don't bother with them, it's not worth it.

All this talk about evidence. I'd like to point out that there is no "factual hard data" being posted by any officials, only 1 sentence blanket statements. There is however a mountain of claims from players who word for word, are experiencing the exact same questionable algorithm behavior, and that is why we are in this thread, having this discussion now.

What is evidence? Well, it is the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. - proof, confirmation, verification, substantiation, corroboration, affirmation. Considering as such, I'd say that the tens of thousands of claims from players over the years that describe the same exact questionable algorithm behavior, is an awful lot of evidence to attempt to sweep under the rug. That's what I think.

Maybe it's time to stop sweeping junk under the rug and to actually clean up the mess. Showing all player ratings at the end of the match would be a great start towards verifying Ben's statement. It's not that players don't believe Arenanet's statements, it's that they are experiencing something quite contrary to those statements. The expectation of evidence goes both ways, not just one way. The fact that showing player ratings in-match has not yet been implemented, despite the enormous amount of players who have requested it over the years, shows reluctance to display algorithm truths and that is suspicious at best.

The last time I had to harp so hard about the algorithm, the thread went on for almost a year before Arenanet acknowledged what myself and the other users there-in were reporting. Finally they looked into it and recognized that there was indeed a bug within the algorithm that was creating unfair lopsided matches. The bug was functioning and doing exactly what we were all reporting. Official red Arenanet statements confirmed this in the thread and they fixed the bug on the next patch. This was in the old forum, a thread called "High MMR Punished For Solo Que" I believe it was.

~ The moral of the story is: When thousands of people who do not know each other are pointing something out and agreeing word for word on the same thing, pay attention.

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@"Delweyn.1309" said:It will never be possible to have perfect matchmaking and so, there will be either too easy or either too hard matches.

But the problem is not that. It's the fact that sometimes you get stuck in those wins or loses streaks.

And whe it's streaks, it's not just random. There is something that calculate to puts you with the best or the worse players numerous times in a row. This is the real problem imo. Something must be done about this.

I wanted to point out this guy's post as he words it pretty accurately. It's not that anyone believes Arenanet employees are sitting back and having a good laugh while directly rigging matches by hand. When they say "It feels rigged" they are referring to whatever the algorithm is doing when it places us into a predetermined stature of winning or losing for that day, regardless of if you are peaking and breaking skill limits or maybe even playing a bit poorly. <- This isn't satisfying play and it makes it so actual player skill is taking a backseat to the algorithm's predetermination. This is frustrating and it does not feel good to play at all.

Guild Wars 1 random arenas "that had absolutely no match making algorithm in place" felt like more balanced match making than Guild Wars 2 and it still does to this day. If the algorithm in Guild Wars 2 is having so many problems with a lower population, maybe it's time to consider removing it or heavily altering it's functions.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Delweyn.1309" said:It will never be possible to have perfect matchmaking and so, there will be either too easy or either too hard matches.

But the problem is not that. It's the fact that sometimes you get stuck in those wins or loses streaks.

And whe it's streaks, it's not just random. There is something that calculate to puts you with the best or the worse players numerous times in a row. This is the real problem imo. Something must be done about this.

I wanted to point out this guy's post as he words it pretty accurately. It's not that anyone believes Arenanet employees are sitting back and having a good laugh while directly rigging matches by hand. When they say "It feels rigged" they are referring to whatever the algorithm is doing when it places us into a predetermined stature of winning or losing for that day, regardless of if you are peaking and breaking skill limits or maybe even playing a bit poorly. <- This isn't satisfying play and it makes it so actual player skill is taking a backseat to the algorithm's predetermination. This is frustrating and it does not feel good to play at all.

Guild Wars 1 random arenas "that had absolutely no match making algorithm in place" felt like more balanced match making than Guild Wars 2 and it still does to this day. If the algorithm in Guild Wars 2 is having so many problems with a lower population, maybe it's time to consider removing it or heavily altering it's functions.

Agreed with all of your posts. Unfortunately, all of that requires effort, resources, time and most importantly the ability to admit that you were wrong about something. Don't think Anet is willing to use/admit to any of those just yet.

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@"Nappa.1904" said:That's the reason I've been stuck in Gold3 for the past 2 seasons. Once you get close to 1500 rating, the matches become extremely one sided, you get steamrolled so hard. Last seasons I think I was 2 or 3 games away before going on a 8 or 10 match lose streak.So either my personal "skill" dropped like a brick overnight, or there's something wrong with the MMR.

it is something wrong with the system. high players get put with high players and lower players put with lower players. a good player stuck in gold who should play high cannot get high partners to win games against high players to climb a high rating so he stay stuck in gold. if mmr was not high before low population now good luck.

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With all due respect, most of the "evidence" quoted in this thread is just a collection of stories/experiences. These are usually susceptible to exaggeration and we have seen very little collective evidence - eg tracking graphs of all matches from a sample of 3-4k players for a whole season. This would be closer to evidence than tales of "oh I was on a 98 match winning streak and then ANet punished me for being so good by making me lose the next 50 matches in a row" (anyone has the right to exaggerate).I don't believe ANet would have a good enough reason to bother doing this - do you really think they pick out people to "lock" into certain tiers intentionally?

It's much simpler, and more logical to dismiss this as a conspiracy theory. As for the "1000 players" posting about losing streaks - well that's not proof - I've had a few such streaks now and then, some weeks none. On the whole I think the matchmaking isn't too bad when you take into account the low population the system has to work with - but unlike those posting about "100x losing streaks" - this is the first time I'm posting against it. Volume of comments/posts for an idea shouldn't be taken as evidence that it's the most prevalent. There could be 1,000 players who think MM is rigged versus 20,000 who don't - but are just not vocal about it.

-

Lastly, people who claim to have left the game, for some reason, seem to have quite a lot to say about its current state. I in no way think that those people should stop posting but bear in mind if you finish your statements with " ....that's why I've left the game and am greatly enjoying playing other MMOs for some time..." then why should anybody consider your comments relevant? Make your mind up - you've either left and have nothing to do with the game, or you've pretended to leave and are up-to-date.

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@"Nappa.1904" said:That's the reason I've been stuck in Gold3 for the past 2 seasons. Once you get close to 1500 rating, the matches become extremely one sided, you get steamrolled so hard. Last seasons I think I was 2 or 3 games away before going on a 8 or 10 match lose streak.So either my personal "skill" dropped like a brick overnight, or there's something wrong with the MMR.

This is so typical for the gw2 pvp community. Pure delusion. Rather than thinking that maybe they simply arent good enough for a certain level of play (in this case plat) they assume the system is keeping them from climbing. This is not a personal attack against the player i just quoted by any means. Its this specific general mindset that really rubs me the wrong way.

You wanna know what really keeps all these people from climbing? Not some Illuminati-conspiracy that for whatever reason targets them specifically, no. Its CONSISTENCY.How can people possibly expect to just keep climbing all the time. At some point - like it literally is with everything - you just hit your current limit. No more climbing; your rating finally settles. Plain and simple really. After getting to a certain rank (when you are in the higher-end player demographic) people simply are expected to carry their own weight.

If you simply run on point without minding your surroundings, good players will punish that.If you spam your entire skillbar on point (looking at you gold-necros), good players will punish that.If you use dodgerolls for autoattacks, good players will punish that.If you just camp one point and dont move off even when not attack, good players will punish that.....I think the general picture should be clear by now.

The higher you go in rating, the better your opponents are and -naturally- the more responsibility each player has personally as well. The margin for error drops dramatically. And that is what I mean by performance-consistency. In lower/mid tier ranks people can get carried by builds and a lot of other external factors. They only perform well under specific circumstances and can win matches even when they made a bunch of mistakes. This is something that simply doesn't fly in higher tier games. There is a reason you always see the same people on the leaderboards after all.

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@BikeIsGone.8675 said:

@"Nappa.1904" said:That's the reason I've been stuck in Gold3 for the past 2 seasons. Once you get close to 1500 rating, the matches become extremely one sided, you get steamrolled so hard. Last seasons I think I was 2 or 3 games away before going on a 8 or 10 match lose streak.So either my personal "skill" dropped like a brick overnight, or there's something wrong with the MMR.

This is so typical for the gw2 pvp community. Pure delusion. Rather than thinking that maybe they simply arent good enough for a certain level of play (in this case plat) they assume the system is keeping them from climbing. This is not a personal attack against the player i just quoted by any means. Its this specific general mindset that really rubs me the wrong way.

You wanna know what really keeps all these people from climbing? Not some Illuminati-conspiracy that for whatever reason targets them specifically, no. Its CONSISTENCY.How can people possibly expect to just keep climbing all the time. At some point - like it literally is with everything - you just hit your
current
limit. No more climbing; your rating finally settles. Plain and simple really. After getting to a certain rank (when you are in the higher-end player demographic) people simply are expected to carry their own weight.

If you simply run on point without minding your surroundings, good players will punish that.If you spam your entire skillbar on point (looking at you gold-necros), good players will punish that.If you use dodgerolls for autoattacks, good players will punish that.If you just camp one point and dont move off even when not attack, good players will punish that.....I think the general picture should be clear by now.

The higher you go in rating, the better your opponents are and -naturally- the more responsibility each player has personally as well. The margin for error drops dramatically. And that is what I mean by performance-consistency. In lower/mid tier ranks people can get carried by builds and a lot of other external factors. They only perform well under specific circumstances and can win matches even when they made a bunch of mistakes. This is something that simply doesn't fly in higher tier games. There is a reason you always see the same people on the leaderboards after all.

I think that you have not understood well the post. Providing that you are going to rise of example gold 3 to platinum. The last Game .Chances of the life, your equipment is worse always

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"Abazigal.3679" I see your point of view but when you actually start taking the time to add players into your contacts list, look them up and view their ratings, you're going to see that those 10 lose streaks are happening because leg/plat2/plat2/plat1/plat1 is going against plat1/plat1/gold3/gold2/gold2 for 10 games in a row and you are for some reason being placed on the low team every match, for 10 matches in a row, or however long it takes to reset you to that designated placement rating. I'm serious, start doing your own research and accrue some numbers for evaluation. Something is going on within the match making that isn't being talked about. But hey, go ahead and keep believing that those 10 lose streak anomalies that happen so often are just dumb luck, where you are somehow unfortunate enough, to be placed on a team with renegades, scrappers and staff eles, vs. much higher rated players on scourges/mirages/firebrands for 10 games in a row.

I mean, a 6 sided die can only roll a 1 so many times in a row before you have to logically consider that it might be loaded. After seeing it roll a 1, 10x in a row, on several occasions over the course of many nights, the only arguments that can be tossed vs. that die being loaded would be some blanket statement to confuse the ignorant from what was going on, or some far fetched nonsense like "it was an act of god".

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" Few things:

  1. There has been an enormous amount of evidence posted about rigged match making.
  2. Evidence posted is never enough. Someone always has to defend arenanet with some response such as: "We'd have to see a lot more evidence than anyone has published to even speculate that the algorithm is rigged or even that it's flawed in a way that the OP suspects. There are simply far too many other plausible explanations for what the OP claims to see." <- A cop-out response. As if all of the players weren't reporting the EXACT same algorithm behavior and patterns concerning rigged match making, as if there actually were some plausible explanation within a blanket statement with no explanation attached such as: "It's cause low population". I mean, what does that even mean? As if these win streaks/lose streaks weren't happening 4 years ago? yeah... k. Sometimes I wonder if you guys are anet devs on alt accounts who join these threads and toss these generic and transparent defenses of the algorithm so that other users ignore OPs like this.
  3. I could record every match I did during a season on a stream and look up the ratings of every player in every match for comparison. I could also have guests on the stream who talk and discuss their own match history and history of ratings in their matches. We could show screen shots & recorded evidence of EXACTLY what is being discussed here. <- which has been done already on several occasions by many different people. But guys like you will still come in here, and tell us, it isn't enough.

It's up to every individual person, after seeing that die roll 1 after 1 after 1, when they decide they've had enough of the shenanigans and walk away.

@Chilli.2976 said:If your q doesn't pop before 5min reset it - or been ready for a disaster.

in my experience, if it takes longer than 5 mins the match ends up being an absolute clown fiesta. Either my team wipes the enemy or the enemy wipes us. Don't think I've had a match where the queue took that long and the game ended up being close-call. Maybe like once or twice in a few rare cases. It is best to queue up at peak times, not at like 2 am like I did yesterday. I regret that so much, dear lord...

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@"MarshallLaw.9260"

  1. Are you new to the forums? How have you missed the several posts per week, during each season, of players posting screenshots of team rosters during a match and then supporting screenshots of those player's ratings which displays enormous flaw in the algorithm's ability to balance a match in the way the patch notes say. How have you missed the several posts per week, each season, of players displaying their enormous win and lose streaks that occur frequently?
  2. Tracking graphs & charts of thousands of players is something Arenanet has access to, not forum users. To come in here and suggest that everyone is wrong in the statements of their experience, because we cannot provide administrative Arenanet level evidence is ridiculous and absurd. If you require that level of evidence to take something seriously, aim your hammer at the head of the nail instead of the hands of the people working on the project. You ought to be questioning why Arenanet doesn't share such knowledge and why we can't view player ratings/mmrs in-match, considering how quickly the truth of this debacle would be revealed.
  3. Talk about "things becoming over-exaggerated." No one said anything about winning 98 matches in a row or losing 50 matches in a row. You are actually the first person in this thread to demonstrate great over-exaggeration in a statement.
  4. No one believes Arenanet is rigging matches by hand. They are concerned with algorithm functions. Reread my previous statement.
  5. Let me explain to you what a Conspiracy Theory is: "a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event." First of all we don't believe but we know Arenanet is responsible for how the algorithm works. Secondly, all claimants are agreeing that they are experiencing the exact same things with the algorithm behavior. This isn't random conjecture being thrown around, these are complete affirmations of mirrored details. My friend this is not a conspiracy theory, it is problem solving. But the process is limited to Arenanet's will.
  6. Why should anyone listen to me? I've played Guild Wars 2 for 6 years and have over 12,000 matches played. I have rigorously researched, followed and posted about any and all problems concerning the algorithm, with most of my enormous text wall forum activity. I left Guild Wars 2 at the beginning of this this season and have only been gone about 3 weeks. In all likelihood, I am probably one of the forum users who has the best understanding of the algorithm from raw experience. That level of knowledge and exposure over the years coming in 2nd only to the Arenanet design team.
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So when people with top 250 titles are saying the mmr system is off, is it still a 'git gud! U reached ur cap!' Issue? Because I'm getting sick of uncarryable games, with 40% of the teams total damage, or having a 20:0 kdr and still losing because 3 of my teammates chased around a sb with bunker builds.

I think the system is using hidden mmr to determine matchups instead of using the shown mmr, and the streaks happen because it's slow to adapt. This would cause the yoyoing

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

No. The average skill rating between teams is less than 50. The deviation is higher than that. Don't have the number off the top of my head though.

We do our best to get the standard deviation as close as we can though.

And no, I say it often, we don't rig matches to end loss or win streaks. But many people will never believe it.Sorry but i not agree just play match when enemy team have 2 deadeys and 2 scourge. My don't have only one necro this is not fair

U guys should start play pvp

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@BikeIsGone.8675 said:

@"Nappa.1904" said:That's the reason I've been stuck in Gold3 for the past 2 seasons. Once you get close to 1500 rating, the matches become extremely one sided, you get steamrolled so hard. Last seasons I think I was 2 or 3 games away before going on a 8 or 10 match lose streak.So either my personal "skill" dropped like a brick overnight, or there's something wrong with the MMR.

This is so typical for the gw2 pvp community. Pure delusion. Rather than thinking that maybe they simply arent good enough for a certain level of play (in this case plat) they assume the system is keeping them from climbing. This is not a personal attack against the player i just quoted by any means. Its this specific general mindset that really rubs me the wrong way.

You wanna know what really keeps all these people from climbing? Not some Illuminati-conspiracy that for whatever reason targets them specifically, no. Its CONSISTENCY.How can people possibly expect to just keep climbing all the time. At some point - like it literally is with everything - you just hit your
current
limit. No more climbing; your rating finally settles. Plain and simple really. After getting to a certain rank (when you are in the higher-end player demographic) people simply are expected to carry their own weight.

If you simply run on point without minding your surroundings, good players will punish that.If you spam your entire skillbar on point (looking at you gold-necros), good players will punish that.If you use dodgerolls for autoattacks, good players will punish that.If you just camp one point and dont move off even when not attack, good players will punish that.....I think the general picture should be clear by now.

The higher you go in rating, the better your opponents are and -naturally- the more responsibility each player has personally as well. The margin for error drops dramatically. And that is what I mean by performance-consistency. In lower/mid tier ranks people can get carried by builds and a lot of other external factors. They only perform well under specific circumstances and can win matches even when they made a bunch of mistakes. This is something that simply doesn't fly in higher tier games. There is a reason you always see the same people on the leaderboards after all.

What disgusts me are posts like this. You're so quick to assume that everyone is shit that you didn't read this guy's post and probably didn't read any posts in this thread in general. Let me a clear a few things up for you:

  1. He isn't complaining about not making plat, nor is he saying anything about being better than he actually is. He is simply affirming the type of algorithm behavior being discussed in this thread. "Reach a certain point and them bam, lose streak back down to a reset." He clearly experienced a normal level playing field such as: win 1, lose 1, win 1, lose 1, win 1, lose 1, win 1, win 1 until he reached top gold. Then suddenly, he receives a string of bad matches, 8 to 10 he says. He states: "Either my skill level dropped like a brick over night or something is wrong with the algorithm." And he is right to assume so.
  2. He didn't say anything about expecting to keep climbing. He simply toss affirmation of the same algorithm behavior. Which is again, the playing field feeling even for many many games in a row, then suddenly BAM super lose streak. <- This algorithm activity doesn't make sense. A player should be settling at some rating margin rather than having predictable elongated lose streaks that resets their rating to their original placement rating. He should be experiencing a fluctuation of like 1400 to 1500 down to 1400 to 1500 at worst. Experiencing a drop from 1500 to 1300 in a string of sheer losses that always begins and occurs at exactly around 1500 is clockwork and clearly a design, not luck. Again, he is not complaining about not reaching platinum or expecting to keep climbing. He is pointing out affirmation of the same algorithm behavior.
  3. You mention the point where people "hit their limit and the rating settles." The nature of this thread is discussing algorithm behavior where that never happens, regardless of how many games are played. The players in this thread are reporting issues where they play within some range let's say "1600 - 1650" for almost 60 games and then suddenly one day BAM, 10 game lose streak where "Carrying your weight" doesn't matter because the matches are so ridiculously poorly weighted. Then they wake up the next day and BAM it lets them win 10 games in a row, back to 1650 and then BAM, lose 10 games in a row. So don't get yourself confused. The players in this thread are simply affirming the odd frequency of forced win and lose streaks that seemingly decide when you are allowed to win and when you are forced to lose. You do realize that there are plat 2+ higher players in this thread affirming this algorithm behavior. Not everyone is a silver 2 who believes he should be in platinum.
  4. You begin to throw sarcastically basic advice as if the poster had no understanding whatsoever how to play Guild Wars 2. While doing this, you avoid the identification of what these players are saying. What they are saying is: Even a top 10 player will not win a game when he with a team of gold 1s, when he is against a team of plat 1s and plat 2s. They are simply affirming that garbage matches like this are happening frequently and they seem to come in streaks.
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@"Egorum.9506" said:So when people with top 250 titles are saying the mmr system is off, is it still a 'git gud! U reached ur cap!' Issue? Because I'm getting sick of uncarryable games, with 40% of the teams total damage, or having a 20:0 kdr and still losing because 3 of my teammates chased around a sb with bunker builds.

I think the system is using hidden mmr to determine matchups instead of using the shown mmr, and the streaks happen because it's slow to adapt. This would cause the yoyoing

Exactly, the system uses a mixture of current rating and actual MMR to determine match making. This explains a great deal of poor algorithm behavior in extremes such as:

  • My main account with 12,000+ matches is made to carry every match I'm in. I almost never get paired with people in my same division. 9/10 matches I am carrying guys in mid gold and I might see a legend on my team 1/100 matches I run "that is no exaggeration, it almost never happens." The struggle is real to maintain plat 1/plat 2 when I'm always against teams of full plat or almost full plat.
  • On my gf's account with less than 150 matches played, I can tag plat 2 right out of placement almost every season, with 9/10 or 10/10 wins. One season I came right out of placement at 1710 on that account and it enraged me. Her matches are easy, she almost always gets paired with people who have higher rating than her because her historical MMR is so low. I can tell that the system expects her to need carrying, whereas on my my main I am being expected to carry.
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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"MarshallLaw.9260"

  1. Are you new to the forums? How have you missed the several posts per week, during each season, of players posting screenshots of team rosters during a match and then supporting screenshots of those player's ratings which displays enormous flaw in the algorithm's ability to balance a match in the way the patch notes say. How have you missed the several posts per week, each season, of players displaying their enormous win and lose streaks that occur frequently?That's how random chance works. I'm willing to bet that most people notice their large win/loss streaks and comment about them far more than when they do not occur. Even 100 people posting over the course of a month is a drop in the ocean compared to total numbers and statistics.
  2. Tracking graphs & charts of thousands of players is something Arenanet has access to, not forum users. To come in here and suggest that everyone is wrong in the statements of their experience, because we cannot provide administrative Arenanet level evidence is ridiculous and absurd. If you require that level of evidence to take something seriously, aim your hammer at the head of the nail instead of the hands of the people working on the project. You ought to be questioning why Arenanet doesn't share such knowledge and why we can't view player ratings/mmrs in-match, considering how quickly the truth of this debacle would be revealed.Wrong. Challenging a THEORY (and it is only a theory btw), based on accounts and recollections without comprehensive data from unbiased sources is absolutely fine. Of course if you load the data from "everyone who's had a huge win/loss streak", you'll get a skewed picture. I understand that there are too many factors in the entire equation to even begin to pick this apart using a handful of recollections.
  3. Talk about "things becoming over-exaggerated." No one said anything about winning 98 matches in a row or losing 50 matches in a row. You are actually the first person in this thread to demonstrate great over-exaggeration in a statement.That's why I put the bracketed statement. Apologies, satire isn't for everyone.
  4. No one believes Arenanet is rigging matches by hand. They are concerned with algorithm functions. Reread my previous statement.Right, fine, that's not exactly what I said. But why do you think they would bother even making the algorithm for this?
  5. Let me explain to you what a Conspiracy Theory is: "a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event." First of all we don't believe but we know Arenanet is responsible for how the algorithm works. Secondly, all claimants are agreeing that they are experiencing the exact same things with the algorithm behavior. This isn't random conjecture being thrown around, these are complete affirmations of mirrored details. My friend this is not a conspiracy theory, it is problem solving. But the process is limited to Arenanet's will.My dude, we can agree that ANet are responsible for the MM system, we cannot in any way currently prove they have, or ever would bother with making an algorithm to trap anyone in a certain tier of a league. All I am pointing out is that with insufficient evidence, this is still theory. As for your comment of "all claimants" - of course if you ask people to report similar experiences, your will get a thread where all the experiences sound similar, just like if I asked for a thread for blonde people, most non-blondes probably won't get involved.
  6. Why should anyone listen to me? I've played Guild Wars 2 for 6 years and have over 12,000 matches played. I have rigorously researched, followed and posted about any and all problems concerning the algorithm, with most of my enormous text wall forum activity. I left Guild Wars 2 at the beginning of this this season and have only been gone about 3 weeks. In all likelihood, I am probably one of the forum users who has the best understanding of the algorithm from raw experience. That level of knowledge and exposure over the years coming in 2nd only to the Arenanet design team.Raw experience does not trump mass data. We cannot take the words of one biased individual as a fair example of the entire population. I respect that you've participated in the game for some time, you probably have a good amount of experience, however compare that to the whole playerbase and it's significance is diminished. Stating you understand the algorithm when you have never seen it is a little far-fetched and "better than anyone on the forum" - even if this is true is still not enough for anyone to be able to rely on your speculation. This is like standing above a crowd of people on a 10 meter ladder and claiming you are the closest to the top of a 100floor skyscraper, therefore your expertise is "the best" .Look, I get it, you're a passionate and emotional player, that's great. However at the end of the day we're stuck in a place where some of the population claim match streaks are rigged, ANet denies this, we do not have the data to prove that they could be lying and until somebody gathers/provides this it will remain so.Getting worked up about this is pushing some posters into the realms of sounding irrational and paranoid. You're better than that.I'm unlikely to comment again on this thread. With all due respect, my opinion will remain unchanged until solid facts/figures are provided.
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