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Matchmaking algorithm too rigged,


Bast.7253

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Wonder if I said something to piss some people off. Haven't won a game tonight and keep getting two aholes who Q as other classes then both switch to scourge. I'm sure they must be a duo since they are always on the same team. Getting real sick of this real quick. Fun is just quickly draining from this game all together.

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@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065Thanks for posting these numbers but how do people get their rank is what bugs me. There are numerous reports in these forums bragging about 'getting gold in my first season' which translates to either we have a lot of natural talented players or the system is so 'generous' promoting players to higher divisions. How are players evaluated and are being put into a division? Does total ranked matches count? Does individual match performance count? Does number of deaths count? etc.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@FlOwMaKeRs.8623 Ty much sir. Another post stating the exact same things that I've been talking about, to contribute to @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" and his evidence -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/36523/matchmaking-still-bad-and-disgusting#latest

Flowmaker mentioned two bad matches, but not any of the others. That really doesn't help make a case that the system is rigged. It just proves that humans are good at noticing results that favor someone else. Actual evidence would include all the matches someone has over a fixed period of time, ideally for many someones, so that the results don't depend on coincidence. And then, we'd still want to compare those numbers to what might happen randomly.

Here's an example of someone letting their personal experience (literally) color their impression of whether results are random:

And here's a (non-PvP) example of someone who collected sufficient evidence to start drawing conclusions:

It's not hard to collect data on PvP matches; it's just tedious to keep track of before & after scores, ratings of team members, ratings of opponents, and so on. Still, if you want to demonstrate to ANet that the algorithm is failing, it's worth doing.

If you want to vent about how bad some of the matches are, that's fine. But if you want to make an extraordinary claim about the algorithm being rigged, then it's reasonable to expect more than a bunch of anecdotes from like-minded people.

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@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:I asked for numbers for this season to be pulled since people are always interested:

Average skill rating difference between teams: 11.866Average standard deviation difference between teams: 11.643Average rating difference in a match: 98.203 (min rating vs max rating across all players in the match)

One thing to keep in mind that end score difference never means that the match didn't start off even. Scores tend to snowball in our game for a number of factors. Some due to map layout/mechanic design. Some due to human nature, as people tend to tilt or give up after getting behind by a certain number. Sometimes people play above or below their potential. That's just part of human performance.

C'mon Ben, your pulling out numbers without taking into account the real specific problem. You're more intelligent than that, pls.It's like judging a student with his average score in school. We all know that an average score of 12 means nothing if the person has 18 and 17 in some subjects and 4 or 6 in others.So if 95% of players are"casual" pvpers, their numbers will dilute the numbers of the 5 other % who are dedicated pvers.

The report about the streaks is made by players who play a lot in pvp and have this profile :

  • high pvp level (more than 400)
  • a lot of matches played (+ 10 000)
  • can play a lot of matches in a row each day (+ 10)
  • have a lot of matches played in ranked

Yes, maybe in GW2 it's not the majority of players. But this is probably this kind of player who make pvp living who are the most accurate in their observations.

Most players probably do only their daily or the minimum of matches required to stay in the rank. And this is this kind of players who say that all is fine with the matchmaking.

Edit :Ben, I suggest that you take a look on accounts of numerous players with more than 10k matches played (in pvp) and have played a lot in ranked this season, and see their matches history since the beginning of the season.

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@FlOwMaKeRs.8623 Ty much sir. Another post stating the exact same things that I've been talking about, to contribute to @Illconceived Was Na.9781 and his evidence ->

Flowmaker mentioned two bad matches, but not any of the others. That really doesn't help make a case that the system is rigged. It just proves that humans are good at noticing results that favor someone else. Actual evidence would include
all
the matches someone has over a fixed period of time, ideally for many someones, so that the results don't depend on coincidence. And then, we'd still want to compare those numbers to what might happen randomly.

Here's an example of someone letting their personal experience (literally) color their impression of whether results are random:

And here's a (non-PvP) example of someone who collected sufficient evidence to start drawing conclusions:

It's not hard to collect data on PvP matches; it's just tedious to keep track of before & after scores, ratings of team members, ratings of opponents, and so on. Still, if you want to demonstrate to ANet that the algorithm is failing, it's worth doing.

If you want to vent about how bad some of the matches are, that's fine. But if you want to make an extraordinary claim about the algorithm being rigged, then it's reasonable to expect more than a bunch of anecdotes from like-minded people.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

I don't think you're quite understanding how extremely difficult it is for a single individual player to provide the kind of sheer raw hard evidence that YOU as a single user are requesting, concerning spvp. Let's cut straight to the chase and consider the best possible evidence provided, which would be a video recorded season in entirety. Let's even consider only running the bare minimum matches required "120" and recording, all of it. Not only would it be a severe full time job pain in the ass for the player to put this documentary together, but would anyone seriously sit down and watch that? Probably not. People will cut to the chase, fast forward to the end, and see what the ultimate result is, rather than watching 120 matches - 15 minute average time per match considering que times - with commentary to discuss or explain something in between. You're talking 120 x 15 = 1800 minutes = 30 solid hours. 30 solid hours, 30. That's 30 solid hours of some bugger's matches in a ranked season. Cutting to the end to see the end result is as good as trusting the words of forum users. So for those of us who have actually sat and considered to launch such a project for the community to view, a few concerns come to mind:

  1. Why involve myself in a full time GW2 project requiring actual play time, comment time, and video editing time, OF 30 HOURS OF GAMEPLAY this isn't even counting commentary, when 99% of the users viewing it will skip past all of that to view only the end result? Why not just post a text testimony of my experiences in the forum or a simple screenshot? Skipping to the end of an enormously long and impossible to watch 30 hours of sheer evidence only to see the end result discussion at the last 10 minutes is as good as taking my word for it, while reading a forum post. Why waste my time?
  2. No one is going to watch that video considering that 30 hours of gameplay is as good as deciding that YOU are choosing to watch my video that season, instead of play your own matches to 120. No player will do both. Watching or playing will take roughly the same amount of time. Even if you fast forward through it, then what the hell was the point of providing this perfectly inarguable season testimony to begin with if no one is looking at it?
  3. Should I just do simple screenshots of gains/losses win/lose streaks after every match? Sure this seems like a shortcut but even still, do you have any idea how difficult it actually is to add random people to your contacts after each match, then wait for their ratings to pop up in your friends bracket for you to view for comparison? By the time it does, the ratings have changed so much that the documented evidence is no longer displaying truth concerning the rating/mmr placements when the match actually happened. The only way to get realistic values is to have players in your contacts list before time or be lucky enough that they actually respond to you if you ask them their rating and don't lie. <- This is a huuuuuge point towards "why you aren't seeing evidence like this being posted" because people who try to do it, recognize that it can't be done. You should be harping your agro towards Ben there, rather than towards forum users who have no access to factual hard data, even if they wanted to provide it. Start helping request ratings shown at the end of matches.
  4. You're damn skippy Arenanet has access to the data that we cannot see. So you're chasing a hopeless persuit by trying to convince me and other forum users "that this is not enough evidence." Because our evidence is what we are experiencing. When we post here, we aren't posting for you dude. We are posting, looking for affirmations from other players to see if this is happening to anyone else. When other users post their affirmations we then look towards Arenanet like "ok so... what is going on? can it be fixed? do you care to fix it?" Arenanet ALREADY has the evidence and data. We are talking to Arenanet, not YOU. So why take my time to create a 30 hour long Guild Wars 2 spvp video? To appease and troll back against forum users who's opinions don't matter? No thank you. Ultimately, the kind of negative blanket statements that you spend so much time tossing and throwing around this forum, don't matter at all. No one cares if YOU believe them or not dude, they really don't. What people care about is giving a shoutout to Arenanet that there is something going on in the game that they do not like. They give the shout out in hopes that others are also giving the shout out, and maybe something will be done about it. In the end this forum is about users notifying Arenanet how they feel about the game and then Arenanet listening to that feedback. In all seriousness and in most cases, little to no evidence is required to post for forum users like yourself, because Arenanet can already look up detailed levels of account history to prove or disprove what someone is saying. There really is no functional, practical or moral place for forum users who rush into every thread they see to discredit every little thing, that every user says.
  5. Even if I did do this documentary of 120 matches and even if Arenanet enabled the viewing of ratings at the end of each match, you are still..... going to come back into this thread and tell me that 1 single person's experience is not enough evidence to even begin to consider that something might be wrong with the algorithm. So why bother? Why bother when the only people's opinions that count are the Arenanet design team and they already have all the data they'll ever need? What's most important is rallying community voice in expressing that they are unhappy about something in a way that Arenanet might actually pay attention to. We have no reason or real incentive to provide some mountain of sheer evidence for @Illconceived Was Na.9781 because his opinion does not matter and his opinion isn't going to fix the algorithm.

So would you get the hint please, and stop regurgitating the same statement every single post: "this isn't evidence - this isn't evidence - this isn't evidence"We hear you dude, we really do. But just incase we missed it... you can go ahead and tell us a couple more times, it's ok, we'll listen to you.

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That's another thing. I rarely have even matches (maybe 2-3 in 10 that are won/lost within 100). Vast majority of them are 200-300 point steamrolls. If everyone's being paired up with evenly matched skill rating players, why do this happens. Believe me, I am not talking about dcers, afker's throwers. I mean where everyone is actively playing.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:I asked for numbers for this season to be pulled since people are always interested:

Average skill rating difference between teams: 11.866Average standard deviation difference between teams: 11.643Average rating difference in a match: 98.203 (min rating vs max rating across all players in the match)

One thing to keep in mind that end score difference never means that the match didn't start off even. Scores tend to snowball in our game for a number of factors. Some due to map layout/mechanic design. Some due to human nature, as people tend to tilt or give up after getting behind by a certain number. Sometimes people play above or below their potential. That's just part of human performance.

Let's say for one moment that your Matchmaker is working perfectly fine. It grabs people that it believes should be playing together via their rating. At that point, what would be the biggest offender to getting teammates who don't play as if they belonged in that rating?

I see you mention plenty of reasons as to why a game would snowball and how it's basically the person's fault, but don't mention how currently some of them are getting carried by their class and due to that end up on a match with high rating vs people who truly deserve that rating via good decision making and mechanical skills.

Don't you agree that having players with an inflated rating that doesn't match their skills make the Matchmaker feel useless?

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:I asked for numbers for this season to be pulled since people are always interested:

Average skill rating difference between teams: 11.866Average standard deviation difference between teams: 11.643Average rating difference in a match: 98.203 (min rating vs max rating across all players in the match)

One thing to keep in mind that end score difference never means that the match didn't start off even. Scores tend to snowball in our game for a number of factors. Some due to map layout/mechanic design. Some due to human nature, as people tend to tilt or give up after getting behind by a certain number. Sometimes people play above or below their potential. That's just part of human performance.

Im curious about what the average rating difference in a match is when there is a legend tier player in it? This season or last season or whatever

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Averages doesnt mean anything. The poor matches that people are pissed about are hidden behind the good ones. Does 5 matches where everyone is within 35-50 MMR of each other justify 2 where there is a couple hundred MMR range between some players. I would say it does not and you need to tighthen up the allowable MMR range more and if the queues go up so be it. I dont want to play with people 100+ MMR below me ever. If the MMR rating is accurate at all they are not as good as me. I want to sink or swim playing with people as teamates that are exactly the same MMR as I am. I know it cant be exactly so I would say -50 below and +50 above. Why can't you at least try stricter rules and see what it does to the queues. You would be surprised I think how many would be willing to wait 5 - 7 minutes. Right now its 1-2 for me at least most of the time it doesnt need to be that fast.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I don't think you're quite understanding how extremely difficult it is for a single individual player to provide the kind of sheer raw hard evidence that YOU as a single user are requesting, concerning spvp.I'm not requesting a thing. You're making a claim; it's up to you to support that claim with evidence. Otherwise, you're just speculating based on a few bad experiences.

And incidentally, as a collector of data, I am fully aware of just how difficult it is for a single, individual player to collect that data. However, one player can collate a lot of data from a lot of different people.

You also go on a bit about all the video that might generate and you're right: no one in their right mind would watch it all. Which is fine; I'm not asking anyone to watch it all. I'm even willing to accept (most) people's word about their match results.

What I'm not willing to do is accept that any of us can draw conclusions about the overall system based on a few dozen matches.

So again, if you want to rant about a series of bad results, go ahead. Just don't expect anyone else to agree with the claim that the system is rigged, without actual evidence.

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@Frostball.9108 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:I asked for numbers for this season to be pulled since people are always interested:

Average skill rating difference between teams: 11.866Average standard deviation difference between teams: 11.643Average rating difference in a match: 98.203 (min rating vs max rating across all players in the match)

One thing to keep in mind that end score difference never means that the match didn't start off even. Scores tend to snowball in our game for a number of factors. Some due to map layout/mechanic design. Some due to human nature, as people tend to tilt or give up after getting behind by a certain number. Sometimes people play above or below their potential. That's just part of human performance.

Im curious about what the average rating difference in a match is when there is a legend tier player in it? This season or last season or whatever

Now this is a good question, do the figures change at the higher/lower end of the spectrum.

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@"cptaylor.2670" said:

Another thing I've noticed about this system is that if I have a bad match with particular people and choose to not queue for 15 minutes, I still somehow wind up with them on my team. I don't think this is coincidence because the queue time is significantly longer when it wants you to lose. I assume it's intentionally waiting for those other people to get out of the match. Not sure if this is because it wants you to improve with those particular people or because it knows you work poorly together and is assuring that it is a loss. Sometimes after said breaks, even if they're only 5 minutes or so which you would still think would be long enough, you queue up and it instantly pops, because it those people you were avoiding were waiting in queue this entire time and it was just waiting for you before it would generate the match making sure that you're on the same team.

Matches last an average of 10 minutes. Queues last approx 2 mins. If you want to be in a different group, just wait 6 minutes and you will get different people, because they will all be in another match already (unless they all do the exact same thing, which isn't very probable).

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I believe that the problem is tied to a small number of players at certain times.

What they should do is make the algorithm perform a different calculation when it has few players available, in a way that guarantees greater variability.

Let's suppose, that has only 10 players at a certain time, 3 players with very good skilled and 7 very bad. this means that there will never be a balanced match, a team may have 1, 2 or 3 of the good players. the team that has 2 or more will tend to be the winner. there will still be chances of a bizarre match where the 3 good players will be on the same team.

The only way to ease this problem is to randomize to the maximum, the team that will have 2 or more good players. Ensuring that they do not repeat the same partners. If they repeat, the phenomenon of snow ball loses streak will occur.

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@Frostball.9108 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:I asked for numbers for this season to be pulled since people are always interested:

Average skill rating difference between teams: 11.866Average standard deviation difference between teams: 11.643Average rating difference in a match: 98.203 (min rating vs max rating across all players in the match)

One thing to keep in mind that end score difference never means that the match didn't start off even. Scores tend to snowball in our game for a number of factors. Some due to map layout/mechanic design. Some due to human nature, as people tend to tilt or give up after getting behind by a certain number. Sometimes people play above or below their potential. That's just part of human performance.

Im curious about what the average rating difference in a match is when there is a legend tier player in it? This season or last season or whatever

The sample of games with a legend player is pretty low, so I extended it down to 1700 (plat 3+). Here's the data including last season and this season:Average skill rating difference between teams: 14.16Average standard deviation difference between teams: 13.55Average rating difference in a match: 189.71Percent of games with average skill rating difference >50: 0.4%

There's a significant increase in rating range at this level, but as seen the skill rating mean and standard deviation differences between teams are pretty similar. The rating range is always going to be higher at the edges of the rating curve as a tradeoff with keeping reasonable queue times , but it doesn't stop the matcher from making fair teams which is the most important.

As some others have pointed out, the average game doesn't always tell the whole story. So I also grabbed all matches from last and this season and paired it down to the set of games with a rating range over 200 (these account for about 10% of all matches). Here's the data for that set:Average skill rating difference between teams: 19.83Average standard deviation difference between teams: 33.67Average rating difference in a match: 279.42Percent of games with average skill rating difference >50: 7.5%

While the skill rating and standard deviation differences are a bit higher in this set, these numbers aren't too bad overall.

I'm not trying to say that the matcher is perfect, but the vast majority of games are pretty balanced.

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@Cal Cohen.3527 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:I asked for numbers for this season to be pulled since people are always interested:

Average skill rating difference between teams: 11.866Average standard deviation difference between teams: 11.643Average rating difference in a match: 98.203 (min rating vs max rating across all players in the match)

One thing to keep in mind that end score difference never means that the match didn't start off even. Scores tend to snowball in our game for a number of factors. Some due to map layout/mechanic design. Some due to human nature, as people tend to tilt or give up after getting behind by a certain number. Sometimes people play above or below their potential. That's just part of human performance.

Im curious about what the average rating difference in a match is when there is a legend tier player in it? This season or last season or whatever

The sample of games with a legend player is pretty low, so I extended it down to 1700 (plat 3+). Here's the data including last season and this season:Average skill rating difference between teams: 14.16Average standard deviation difference between teams: 13.55Average rating difference in a match: 189.71Percent of games with average skill rating difference >50: 0.4%

There's a significant increase in rating range at this level, but as seen the skill rating mean and standard deviation differences between teams are pretty similar. The rating range is always going to be higher at the edges of the rating curve as a tradeoff with keeping reasonable queue times , but it doesn't stop the matcher from making fair teams which is the most important.

As some others have pointed out, the average game doesn't always tell the whole story. So I also grabbed all matches from last and this season and paired it down to the set of games with a rating range over 200 (these account for about 10% of all matches). Here's the data for that set:Average skill rating difference between teams: 19.83Average standard deviation difference between teams: 33.67Average rating difference in a match: 279.42Percent of games with average skill rating difference >50: 7.5%

While the skill rating and standard deviation differences are a bit higher in this set, these numbers aren't too bad overall.

I'm not trying to say that the matcher is perfect, but the vast majority of games are pretty balanced.

Thanks for the data, it’s been interesting to see. Maybe it will put this matchmaking is rigged stuff to bed?

Who am I kidding we will have another thread about it within a week.

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@Cal Cohen.3527 said:

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:I asked for numbers for this season to be pulled since people are always interested:

Average skill rating difference between teams: 11.866Average standard deviation difference between teams: 11.643Average rating difference in a match: 98.203 (min rating vs max rating across all players in the match)

One thing to keep in mind that end score difference never means that the match didn't start off even. Scores tend to snowball in our game for a number of factors. Some due to map layout/mechanic design. Some due to human nature, as people tend to tilt or give up after getting behind by a certain number. Sometimes people play above or below their potential. That's just part of human performance.

Im curious about what the average rating difference in a match is when there is a legend tier player in it? This season or last season or whatever

The sample of games with a legend player is pretty low, so I extended it down to 1700 (plat 3+). Here's the data including last season and this season:Average skill rating difference between teams: 14.16Average standard deviation difference between teams: 13.55Average rating difference in a match: 189.71Percent of games with average skill rating difference >50: 0.4%

There's a significant increase in rating range at this level, but as seen the skill rating mean and standard deviation differences between teams are pretty similar. The rating range is always going to be higher at the edges of the rating curve as a tradeoff with keeping reasonable queue times , but it doesn't stop the matcher from making fair teams which is the most important.

As some others have pointed out, the average game doesn't always tell the whole story. So I also grabbed all matches from last and this season and paired it down to the set of games with a rating range over 200 (these account for about 10% of all matches). Here's the data for that set:Average skill rating difference between teams: 19.83Average standard deviation difference between teams: 33.67Average rating difference in a match: 279.42Percent of games with average skill rating difference >50: 7.5%

While the skill rating and standard deviation differences are a bit higher in this set, these numbers aren't too bad overall.

I'm not trying to say that the matcher is perfect, but the vast majority of games are pretty balanced.

You have a serious misunderstanding of balance if you think games are "even" with average 300 rating difference. You clearly do not understand how conquest works if you think your rating system matching people from different divisions in the same team/game is in ANY way balanced.

How your game works right now is: locate the lower rated players on enemy team after first engagement, and camp/stagger spawn for the easiest blowout of your life. Less skilled players have MORE impact on the match than skilled players, because the detriment to the team is incredible due to the lack of game knowledge provided by the absence of proper tutorials, player content, number of GOOD players, and game "balance." These things would be painfully obvious to any one in your office if any one in your office actually played the game mode.

We all know the reasons why this game no longer has a functioning pvp player pool, and no amount of spaghetti coding in a MM is gonna fix that.

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@Dreddo.9865 said:@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065Thanks for posting these numbers but how do people get their rank is what bugs me. There are numerous reports in these forums bragging about 'getting gold in my first season' which translates to either we have a lot of natural talented players or the system is so 'generous' promoting players to higher divisions. How are players evaluated and are being put into a division? Does total ranked matches count? Does individual match performance count? Does number of deaths count? etc.

The rating systems distributes across a curve with a mean of 1200. Gold starts at 1200, so a player that is placing Gold is merely slightly above average. Your rating placement is done with the exact same glicko2 algorithm that rates you after placements. Placements is merely a mechanic for hiding your rating change for the first 10 matches, the reason the first ten are hidden is because glicko2 has enormously high deviation in early matches, and devs don't want players flipping out over the rating swings during early matches.

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I've pretty much come down to ranked as being a farm fest and having fun. I seriously just got out of 2 matches as a silver player (been high gold for pretty much ever) got 8 points and 10 points.

Another question I have is, is MMR and ranked rating the same, or are there 2 different rating for ranked and unranked matchmaking. I seem like I play with higher level players in unranked vs. ranked.

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@Cal Cohen.3527 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:I asked for numbers for this season to be pulled since people are always interested:

Average skill rating difference between teams: 11.866Average standard deviation difference between teams: 11.643Average rating difference in a match: 98.203 (min rating vs max rating across all players in the match)

One thing to keep in mind that end score difference never means that the match didn't start off even. Scores tend to snowball in our game for a number of factors. Some due to map layout/mechanic design. Some due to human nature, as people tend to tilt or give up after getting behind by a certain number. Sometimes people play above or below their potential. That's just part of human performance.

Im curious about what the average rating difference in a match is when there is a legend tier player in it? This season or last season or whatever

The sample of games with a legend player is pretty low, so I extended it down to 1700 (plat 3+). Here's the data including last season and this season:Average skill rating difference between teams: 14.16Average standard deviation difference between teams: 13.55Average rating difference in a match: 189.71Percent of games with average skill rating difference >50: 0.4%

There's a significant increase in rating range at this level, but as seen the skill rating mean and standard deviation differences between teams are pretty similar. The rating range is always going to be higher at the edges of the rating curve as a tradeoff with keeping reasonable queue times , but it doesn't stop the matcher from making fair teams which is the most important.

As some others have pointed out, the average game doesn't always tell the whole story. So I also grabbed all matches from last and this season and paired it down to the set of games with a rating range over 200 (these account for about 10% of all matches). Here's the data for that set:Average skill rating difference between teams: 19.83Average standard deviation difference between teams: 33.67Average rating difference in a match: 279.42Percent of games with average skill rating difference >50: 7.5%

While the skill rating and standard deviation differences are a bit higher in this set, these numbers aren't too bad overall.

I'm not trying to say that the matcher is perfect, but the vast majority of games are pretty balanced.

I should probably be able to understand what this means, but it's not making a whole lot of sense to me.

Average skill rating difference between teams being the average of the ratings of the 5 person on one team being a 20 point difference between the other team?Deviation difference between teams? Not sure what this is.

Rating difference in a match between the lowest rated player and the highest? Is this on the same team or just everyone in both teams? Either way that's a pretty huge difference.

Percent of games with average skill rating difference? Not sure what this is either, but it's weird that it jumps from .4% to 7.5% just in one season? I know that's still less than 10% but it's huge in comparison to the previous. This might not mean anything given that I'm not entirely sure what it is to begin with. lol

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@"Cal Cohen.3527" said:

While the skill rating and standard deviation differences are a bit higher in this set, these numbers aren't too bad overall.

I'm not trying to say that the matcher is perfect, but the vast majority of games are pretty balanced.

I wish I had your optimism. But when over 50% of my matches are 1 sided (Win or Lose, mostly losing). I would hardly call that balanced. Maybe the "Big Picture" everything looks fine. But on the individual scale it isn't.

(In Tier 3 Gold/ T1 Plat for frame of reference)

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@rwolf.9571 said:

@"Cal Cohen.3527" said:

While the skill rating and standard deviation differences are a bit higher in this set, these numbers aren't too bad overall.

I'm not trying to say that the matcher is perfect, but the vast majority of games are pretty balanced.

I wish I had your optimism. But when over 50% of my matches are 1 sided (Win or Lose, mostly losing). I would hardly call that balanced. Maybe the "Big Picture" everything looks fine. But on the individual scale it isn't.

(In Tier 3 Gold/ T1 Plat for frame of reference)

I was staying in that rank for awhile. Then got down to the beginning of gold 3 and got discouraged so I stopped even trying. Now I've dropped below that a bit and am losing games with a 100-200 point lead because my entire team gets farmed standing in one scourge shade with a thief fighting a warrior off point and 3 people fighting a sword ele for 10 minutes.

I'm sure I'm absolutely terrible, but I'm not this terrible. I don't know how these people are making it to this level, whether it's imbalance and playing the flavor of the month easy class in placements and getting higher than they should due to serious imbalance and bad class design like scourge in a point capture game, or what the deal is. I honestly don't know. But I'm infuriated at some of the things these people are doing in my matches.

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