Is the PVP population shrinking, and if so, why? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Is the PVP population shrinking, and if so, why?

Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

From my perspective, it seems as if the PVP population is steadily shrinking.

I used to really enjoy PVP but for atleast the last year my frustration with this game mode has increased.

I am losing interest in the game mode because as it is now, I do not find it satisfying.

Some of the reasons I have seen others say made them leave PVP are:

  • Slow balance
  • Untested changes
  • Slow to make fixes that should be addressed immediately
  • same old conquest mode
  • lack of team play in ranked
  • allowance of ftp bots, cheats, hacks, and match manipulators
  • pve reward driven system
  • flavor of the season bandwagon OP class

Have you quit, or drastically reduced your pvp game time?

Have you avoided this season because of the horrors from the last two?

For me (meaning my personal opinion and experience), I find that the lack of a strong and important competitive scene in Guild Wars 2 demotivates me from playing other game modes in it. I become so frustrated with the game when I am in PVP that any other goals I may have set for the day are abandoned, because I log out in disgust.

TL;DR
I percieve that the PVP population is shrinking due to alot of well known, yet unaddressed issues. PVP is a core part of my GW2 experience, and PVP's current state demotivates me from playing the rest of the game.

Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

<13

Comments

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2018

    I definitely play it significantly less than I used to. I mainly just play it for the rewards/dailies now, not much else would keep me coming back to it. The increasing toxicity combined with everything you listed just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2018

    i’m mastering gladiator in for honor, that game rocks dudes

    as far as spam wars 2 tho, it was the combination of two things made me leave

    bad balance + cant play ranked w friends

    those were the two main factors that got me to quit, those two plus WvW issues got rid of the rest of my guild. we’re all gone now. at least back when we had crappy balance in the past we could play as a group & still have some fun, but that’s gone. so it’s just bile & nostalgia now

    I'm a punk kid, no reason why
    Nothing finer than the taste of tears running down my face
    Oh cry baby cry, oh cry baby cry oh

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2018
    1. Bad balance with no sign of getting to a healthy state EVER. Yes, they nerf some stuff, but everything is so stupidly strong that at the rate ANet moves, it can only ever get less bad - never to an even somewhat healthy state.
    2. Inability to play with friends in ranked. PvP isn't that fun because of #1, and now I have to endure it alone. Rewards only motivate for so long.
    3. All my PvP friends quitting or drastically reducing play time because of #1 and #2.

    Since HoT, I've only played seriously for a few weeks every 3-4 months. I don't mind sitting out entire ranked seasons. I can only take so much before I just get too frustrated by the power creep. However, this time I think I'm done with PvP for good. Probably hop on to claim living story unlocks and that it's.

    I've been filling my time with Overwatch, TV, and real-life hobbies.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Because conquest doesn't have a lasting appeal, and ranked is a chore with little incentive.

    Sure they can increase the incentives but that is only a temporary fix to a bigger problem.

  • DragonFury.6243DragonFury.6243 Member ✭✭✭✭

    no 1 play SPVP because no 1 want to see 4 Scourge , 4 Mesmer , 4 Bunker or 4 condi thiefs
    and ANET cant prevent profession/elite specialization stacking because large no. of the remaining players that do play pvp play these profession/elite specialization

  • Kathul.1280Kathul.1280 Member ✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    I blame lack of team queue...

    1 player brings in 4, 2 stay and do the same, then we have 10+ players from 1 guild populating the mists.

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________\

    If only Team que could work the same as our current Duo que, stop team games at 1600 so people can still chase their ego while the rest of us can play with our friends in a MMO.

    Well said. I was brought into this game from another MMO. We played DnD together as an Rp thing for ten years !!

    They all quit this game with a guild hall and everything because we couldn't play ALL the aspects of the game together, in an MMO. So it's 10 people all playing an MMO solo, that are at the same LAN party, lol, kitten. Sad part is, we don't even roll dice together anymore either.

  • I just do dailies now since the balance in this game is terrible and having personal rank based on w/l with rng teams makes it pointless imo to even play ranked seriously, plus the game modes simply just got stale

  • Tonight was my last night. F2P accounts on my team vs full chronocheese mesmers. I literally can't win a game carrying grouped F2P accounts.

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    anet fail in the beginning with the statement of NO holy trinity.
    its so bull kitten as we do have it

    ele, guard, druid .

    ele hardly was anthing but healer/ supporter. few took it as fa direct dmg build (few brave ones)
    guard was the only class who fulfill the no trinity system . could do direct dmg, condi dmg, support, bunker
    druid mostly support from the start and bunker

    the the holy trinity do exist
    and the try to make each class do it all create the power/ sustain creep

  • bladezero.9470bladezero.9470 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm just playing to my legendary armor at this point. Will be finished this season.

    I've started my own 5 man team and we have a lot of fun just perfecting our team play. We hope to have a real competitive outlet soon. ATs need a major rework with one at least every hour if not constantly rotating.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2018

    I queued a few times in February, once in March, and have yet to queue in April. I just can't find the desire to do so anymore. My motivation to try was killed almost immediately during the PoF demo weekend. The state of balance during that weekend was beyond horrific, and although it has improved in certain respects since then, witnessing the immense level of powercreep that was introduced was incredibly disheartening.

    That is my primary reason for not PvPing anymore. On a conceptual level, I love the elite specs that PoF brought. However, in practice, there are a lot of design decisions that were made that just baffle me, and after a certain point, I lost my steam, and to a certain extent my faith. I question why I continue to play the game when it legitimately makes me angry at times, but its combat system has spoiled me. There is still a lot to love about the game, I just really wish they'd dedicate more resources to work on balance. That is the #1 most important thing to me as a player. It seems like they are gradually making it more of a priority, I just don't think gradual is enough for most players.

  • Solaris.2489Solaris.2489 Member ✭✭✭

    I won 700 games with DH and luckily got my legi pvp wings right before PoF. Ive played a few games since the expansion and while having an occasional losing streak is completely normal, the way it is now is just permanently non fun. I pretty much only play WvW now and sometimes a PvE raid or dungeon.

  • Nuka Cola.8520Nuka Cola.8520 Member ✭✭✭✭

    At this point, capturing circles is not a game mode, but brain torture. The fact that more than 10 ppl still play it is unbelievable enough as is.

  • pah.4931pah.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Because Anet has blindly tried to create an eSport with its PvP design choices, while not supporting this idea at all from a class design / balance cadence perspective.

    If only they had created a bunch of different game modes over the last 5 years...

  • I have steadily reduced my play time since the June 23rd 2015 specialisation patch. The bloated abilities and traits we have since then hurt the combat system a lot.

  • Ardenwolfe.8590Ardenwolfe.8590 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2018

    Since I capped my achievements, I don't bother anymore, but I definitely agree with most of the opinions already given.

    No longer posting or playing.

  • Nappa.1904Nappa.1904 Member ✭✭
    edited April 19, 2018

    It's shrinking because we've had 1 ranked game mode for 6 years. Among of myriad other issues such as lack of frequent balance patches and constant Matchmaking problems.
    Just the first point alone shows that Anet couldn't care less about pvp.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2018

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    I blame lack of team queue...

    It's mathematical:
    Solo queue / Duo queue system: Max players brought into Mists = 2
    Team queue: Max players brought into the mists = 5


    Situations: 1 player wants to PvP with his friends, can only invite one person to play with and that person must be similar or higher skill level to reduce the risk of losing.

    With Team Queue: 1 player wants to play PvP with his friends, he asks in guild chat if anyone wants to join. He gets 4 other people to queue with him, 2 people have never played PvP before but they really enjoyed playing it with their friends and continue to come back and ask guild chat to join in.... Cycle repeats itself.
    1 player brings in 4, 2 stay and do the same, then we have 10+ players from 1 guild populating the mists.

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________\

    If only Team que could work the same as our current Duo que, stop team games at 1600 so people can still chase their ego while the rest of us can play with our friends in a MMO.

    Lol

    Some people love to blame the removal of 5 man ranked play as the reason for PvP dying, yet ANet told us that it was the vast minority of people that queued up in 5 man teams back when that was an option. You're free to not believe them if you want, but they have the data to back up their statements, and yall don't, so I know who I believe on the matter

    lol
    some people don't have the comprehensive skills to understand cause and effect.

    I don't argue with math or history.
    The math is there, and history has shown us it did effect the pvp population a lot. (which is a no brainer due to the math side of it)

    I believe Anet too that people who team queued were in the minority but let me go into detail as to why it was still a bad choice, using math because math doesn't lie.

    Even if it was a small percentage (or minority) it would still be better than nothing because a percentage/minority is just that, a portion of a whole so a small percentage/minority of 10,000 players is still over 1000... So for the sake of the point, losing team queue meant losing 1000 players.

    If you're into cause and effect like I am, you would know that's the start of the downfall.... Population dropped greatly then the match making stops working properly which causes more people to leave and so the butterfly effect keeps on going.

    __

    Then there's also personal experience, watching PvP guilds dismember because they couldn't play together anymore, moved onto other games where they could. I still play with some of them, mostly in casual games like Left 4 Dead though.
    Only reason I got into PvP was because my guild used to post in guild chat "who wants to make a team"... Meaning the only reason I ever entered the mists to begin with, was because of team queue.
    Is there any such thing as PvP focused guilds anymore? Neeeerp.

    I see no reason not to implement 5 man queues up until 1600 rating, it's an overall healthy decision for the game and the only reason to be against that is to protect your solo queue ego rating or because you don't have anyone to queue with and feel it should be that way for everyone else too.


    Reason I blame team queue: I'm back tracking to the source. Fixing team queue would repopulate the mists over a few months, the match making would fix itself, players would be less toxic and so on, one little change could fix several things in one hit. Sort of like killing 7 birds with 1 bullet.


    I don't expect you or many others to comprehend this, this isn't something that can be taught. You either get it, or you don't.
    And before I get the response "so you think team queue would fix everything"..... No I don't, there are other issues but my response is directly aimed at

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    • lack of team play in ranked

    I would love to hear some of your thoughts on how to fix population issues, you have a knack of picking apart peoples responses without contributing yourself.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Meteor.3720Meteor.3720 Member ✭✭✭

    This so perfectly encapsulates what's wrong with the PVP scene, why it leads to a shrinking population, and why it puts people off the game as a whole.

    Well done @Crab Fear.1624

  • SunTzu.4513SunTzu.4513 Member ✭✭✭

    I percieve that the PVP population is shrinking due to alot of well known, yet unaddressed issues. PVP is a core part of my GW2 experience, and PVP's current state demotivates me from playing the rest of the game.

    This sums it up pretty well. For me it just feels like ANet don't give anything about pvp/wvw.

  • Spvp is bad because:
    1)not enough updates (but this is mainly because they've given up, so it's a consequence of the already bad situation)
    2)conquest gamemode is boring and there were complaints since release:
    -Players play pvp to fight and kill others, running around capping point (especially if empty) isn't fun
    -This gamemode causes a lot of unbalanced fights (1 vs 2, 1 vs 3, ... )
    3)The combat system is bad, and this is probably the number 1 reason. It certainly feels fluid, fast paced and fun, but there are flaws that applies especially for pvp only:
    -Too much damage and burst, fights are too short, and when it's too short there's no skill involved. Most people don't even know the classes, skills and abilities of their opponent, they jump in smashing 5 buttons and voilà he's downed. There's a low amount of strategy in fights and a lot of rng cause dodges (because most people just spam dodges). This happen even in higher ranks (less of course), but the point is that the best players in gw2 are not representative of what spvp in gw2 is or should be, if you want a healthy environment you need a lot of players, often bad players, and they're not having fun because the actual spvp is not satisfactory enough.
    -No variety for gear, the only amulets you can get are dps ones, most defensive sigils and runes are disabled aswell. In this way you're keeping out of spvp most people that enjoy mainly to play tanks or healer builds. Clearly they've done this because bunker can get problematic, but they should have nerfed bunkers not amulets (killing a lot of fun builds/experiments for other classes). Also bunkers are a problem because there's no resource system, like mana, so you just can keep going forever, and this can't easily be fixed.
    -No variety of builds. Burst or bunkers, you can't often afford to play something in the middle like a bruiser, because a burst build would kill you faster and you wouldn't be able to kill a bunker anyway.
    -Builds that are hard to kill and have insane damage. What???
    -Chaining dodges/invuln and blocks. When you have so many is it really a skill based combat? Dodges should be limited to 2 as it was initially by design, and maybe thief could get 3 with traits. Vigor has to go in pvp, block should consume endurance but last longer, invuln should only be on elites and/or have high cooldown.
    -Too much conditions, buffs and spam of those. Most players can't keep track and the combat feels like a mess. It's not enjoyable to not have control or understand what's going on.
    -As long there are more than 2 people in a fight it's a mess, a lot of fluffy effects and you'e downed before you realize, but i guess you all know about this already.

    In other words it's too much of a mess, it can't and will never be fixed

  • Chorazin.4107Chorazin.4107 Member ✭✭✭

    Having 5 man Q's is not going to fix the problem, it would probably exacerbate it. You have some bunch of top 20's-50's make a 5 man team and said group of friends playing for fun get 500 - 50'd. After about 3 rounds of this friendsies group logs off to go do something else as the only other 5 man group they can play against are all top ranked PvP players.

    By the same token you can't expect a bunch of solo Q's to be matched against a 5man team for the exact same reasons. So your 5 man teams sits waiting for other 5 man teams to Q that may be on your skill level. That could literally be 30 mins, I guess the matchmaker could try to group them against a much higher ranked trio and duo?

    The balance is terrible, it seems 0 testing is done from a balance perspective before release. I suspect the only testing that does get done is "does it cause the game to crash?", no? Ok pack it up for the next patch. Anets balance team need to play the game at a competitive level, not tick off items on their burn down charts and attend their 15 min daily scrums. Yay i hit my monthly KPI's!!!!111

    [lion] - [tRex] - [nâh/UwU/yep]

  • Kraitan.8476Kraitan.8476 Member ✭✭✭

    TLDR: same maps for 6 years, new titles/prestige rewards introduced mean nothing due to wintrading, conquest is cancer and promotes aidsy builds, sometimes months of kitten balance before anything is done.

  • Lordrosicky.5813Lordrosicky.5813 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2018

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:
    I have steadily reduced my play time since the June 23rd 2015 specialisation patch. The bloated abilities and traits we have since then hurt the combat system a lot.

    That patch was when the game died. The original trait system was designed by a bunch of people who are top level game designers. I don't know why the current anet staff decided to undo all the work these people did. They are like a bull in a china shop and just did stuff because it would be "cool". Look at traits like the guardian meditation trait. That used to be 3 separate traits. But now you can take it all in a single trait and just use the rest of the traits to take more stuff. The literal definition of power creep. This trait patch cannot and will not ever be undone. So the game is dead from a pvp perspective. Anyone hoping for a change is crazy as they cannot undo this trait patch.

    Essentially the gameplay sucks and that is why pvp is in decline.

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lordrosicky.5813 said:
    That patch was when the game died. The original trait system was designed by a bunch of people who are top level game designers. I don't know why the current anet staff decided to undo all the work these people did. They are like a bull in a china shop and just did stuff because it would be "cool". Look at traits like the guardian meditation trait. That used to be 3 separate traits. But now you can take it all in a single trait and just use the rest of the traits to take more stuff. The literal definition of power creep. This trait patch cannot and will not ever be undone. So the game is dead from a pvp perspective. Anyone hoping for a change is crazy as they cannot undo this trait patch.

    Exactly right.

  • Players are not leaving spvp they just probably were not into it at first place. They just go play for legendary armor coz it's pretty much only half decent way to get one unless you are into pve raids.

    Also power creep. Not very interesting to play when you have only few really viable builds. I guess classes were balanced around some really small "esports" scene, but guess what most people are not playing like that. There has always been better or worse classes but less like this. i'm putting up druid as an example. Everyone should get it.

    Game mechanics used to be interesting before specializations but nowadays you need to dodge every second hit since it's likely to be one shot kill which leads into dodge spamming and just feels a lot of random button smash. To be honest. Even though it probably isn't but still so many big hits or stuns incoming you just need to rotate skills and evade dmg.

    I also find it odd they removed solo que and team que both were fine, kind of? I think it's annoying to get 2 very bad players together in team or if enemy has 2 very good ones it's also annoying.

    Anyways I do think people only stop playing pvp coz they've already seen all new stuff or got their legendaries and moved to some other game. or both/all of those.

  • BMW.2951BMW.2951 Member ✭✭✭

    Guys it's easy just give in and join the Chrono Mesmer meta and you will be plat in no time. Hahahahaah. All is fair since everyone else is doing it.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aza.2105 said:
    You can't have a competitive game based around 100 - 0 the opponent within a couple seconds. I don't think I've seen any game that does that be successful .

    It can work in games like CoD, where the mechanics are relatively simple (point and shoot). But in an MMO where you can have 20+ skills, 100-0 is entirely inappropriate.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Fixing pvp would mean changing core mechanics of the game and completely rework specializations, so that's not gonna happen.

  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭

    @bLind.6278 said:
    Honestly not sure why people still give Anet feedback - it's not like they read it, and absolutely don't do anything to address issues.

    I'm a punk kid, no reason why
    Nothing finer than the taste of tears running down my face
    Oh cry baby cry, oh cry baby cry oh

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A lot of new games while anet continue to focus on the same old living story without much innovation on other areas.

    Founder & Retired Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi
    https://discord.gg/P5dj7fd

  • Rufo.3716Rufo.3716 Member ✭✭✭

    People are sick and tired of not having their skill mean anything anymore. You have players stuck in silver that should be in plat. You have players in plat that should be in silver. And because of this RNG fest as to if you have a good enough team or not, many of the top players and streamers quit. Why play something if your skill means nothing?

  • Kraitan.8476Kraitan.8476 Member ✭✭✭

    You know what allowed many players to play thousands of games in GW1 without getting bored as kitten? It was A. a deathmatch, no circlewars and B. we had build templates so swapping between classes/builds was extremely easy and creating & sharing builds created a community that very much liked that part of the game. I know its 6 years late but I still want build templates even though the hype for pvp personally kinda died for me 3 seasons ago

  • Nova.3817Nova.3817 Member ✭✭✭

    logged in just to answer why i left gw2 bc i couldn't play with friends in ranked killed all fun and a sense of a community in my eyes..... cheers

  • Highlie.7641Highlie.7641 Member ✭✭✭

    Player skill level is at an all time low. It makes for a very boring game. there is no professional diversity between tiers anymore. you used to see old meta builds in the lower tiers now its all meta specs just like the top tiers, the only diffrence is the top tier players know how to use there PVE spec.

    I'm still having a few games now and then but i will probably go on another break soon. I've been asking myself "do you really want to put in 100's of games, just so you might get a decent opponent?"

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2018

    I am trying to reach 5k PvP wins, but I always stop earlier than planned because the balance is unbearable. Too much of everything.

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kraitan.8476 said:
    You know what allowed many players to play thousands of games in GW1 without getting bored as kitten? It was A. a deathmatch, no circlewars and B. we had build templates so swapping between classes/builds was extremely easy and creating & sharing builds created a community that very much liked that part of the game. I know its 6 years late but I still want build templates even though the hype for pvp personally kinda died for me 3 seasons ago

    A build template would be sort of pointless in gw2, since non meta builds don't really do well vs the meta ones. Unlike in gw1 were you could make a intelligent build that could compete with the meta ones.

  • Lordrosicky.5813Lordrosicky.5813 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Aza.2105 said:
    You can't have a competitive game based around 100 - 0 the opponent within a couple seconds. I don't think I've seen any game that does that be successful .

    It can work in games like CoD, where the mechanics are relatively simple (point and shoot). But in an MMO where you can have 20+ skills, 100-0 is entirely inappropriate.

    They removed all the tanky amulets, such as sentinal, purely for their failed esports. They should add them back and pvp would instantly become more enjoyable for most people.

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