Elder Dragons Zhaitan and Mordremoth — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Elder Dragons Zhaitan and Mordremoth

Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

Good morning devs,

My questions are in regards to Zhaitan’s power and Mordremoth’ s abilities. This topic has come up several times on the Lore forum as well as the wiki.

  1. Can the elder dragon’s corrupt corpses like Zhaitan can or is that strictly an ability only available to death magic and those dragons who have control over it.

  2. Are the Blighting pods that Mordremoth created in Heart of Thorns because of the fact that Mordremoth consumed the death magic spectrum or is the ability to use corpses in the manufacturing of minions a natural one.

  3. What is Zhaitan’s shadow magic spectrum?

Thanks again for this opportunity.

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Comments

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In a bit of an addendum to these questions (since these are half of my Zhaitan questions anyways):

    1. What was Zhaitan's unique weakness?
    1. After Zhaitan's death, the other elder dragons gained the ability to make minions out of the dead. Prior to that, only living hosts were viable for the other Elder Dragons.
    2. The ability for corpses to be viable candidates is the ability Mordremoth gained from Zhaitan. Without Zhaitan's power, only the living could be placed in Blighting Pods, making "taking people alive" the only way to create clones. I believe living hosts still create stronger clones, however, hence the drive to still capture victims alive when possible.
    3. I'm not sure what you mean by this, could you clarify?
  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Andrew Gray.5816 said:

    1. I'm not sure what you mean by this, could you clarify?

    Sure back in season 2 of living world, we are told that each dragon has two spectrums that they Lord over. Mordremoth is plant and mind, while Zhaitan is death and shadow.

    I’m curious on what this shadow spectrum that Zhaitan has.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Andrew Gray.5816 said:
    1. After Zhaitan's death, the other elder dragons gained the ability to make minions out of the dead. Prior to that, only living hosts were viable for the other Elder Dragons.
    2. The ability for corpses to be viable candidates is the ability Mordremoth gained from Zhaitan. Without Zhaitan's power, only the living could be placed in Blighting Pods, making "taking people alive" the only way to create clones. I believe living hosts still create stronger clones, however, hence the drive to still capture victims alive when possible.

    What about the Pale Tree? How did she create sylvari modeled after humans (per this interview) without any living humans around at the time (Ronan, the last human known to be around the Pale Tree, died over a century before the first sylvari)?

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Andrew Gray.5816 said:
    1. After Zhaitan's death, the other elder dragons gained the ability to make minions out of the dead. Prior to that, only living hosts were viable for the other Elder Dragons.
    2. The ability for corpses to be viable candidates is the ability Mordremoth gained from Zhaitan. Without Zhaitan's power, only the living could be placed in Blighting Pods, making "taking people alive" the only way to create clones. I believe living hosts still create stronger clones, however, hence the drive to still capture victims alive when possible.
    3. I'm not sure what you mean by this, could you clarify?

    I think what they meant was, how did the shadow spectrum manifest itself in game as part of his influence.

  • Nebilim.5127Nebilim.5127 Member ✭✭
    edited April 26, 2018

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Andrew Gray.5816 said:
    1. After Zhaitan's death, the other elder dragons gained the ability to make minions out of the dead. Prior to that, only living hosts were viable for the other Elder Dragons.
    2. The ability for corpses to be viable candidates is the ability Mordremoth gained from Zhaitan. Without Zhaitan's power, only the living could be placed in Blighting Pods, making "taking people alive" the only way to create clones. I believe living hosts still create stronger clones, however, hence the drive to still capture victims alive when possible.

    What about the Pale Tree? How did she create sylvari modeled after humans (per this interview) without any living humans around at the time (Ronan, the last human known to be around the Pale Tree, died over a century before the first sylvari)?

    I assume they aren't clones/corrupted/turned, but just an imitation. Just like how Mordremoth got other some other basic minions without corrupting anything.

    To add to OP question, now i'm wondering what's the capacity of the dragons to create minions. They corrupt living beings because it snowball their victory plus odds of grabbing a very strong champion is high, but what about the start? Do they slowly creep towards fauna and flora first to build an army before attacking intelligent beings?

  • @Andrew Gray.5816 said:
    1. After Zhaitan's death, the other elder dragons gained the ability to make minions out of the dead. Prior to that, only living hosts were viable for the other Elder Dragons.
    2. The ability for corpses to be viable candidates is the ability Mordremoth gained from Zhaitan. Without Zhaitan's power, only the living could be placed in Blighting Pods, making "taking people alive" the only way to create clones. I believe living hosts still create stronger clones, however, hence the drive to still capture victims alive when possible.

    Does that mean that after Mordremoth gained Zhaitan's powers ... he doesn't needed living minions no more? Maybe Blighting pods are certainly other Pale Trees?

  • Cregath.7628Cregath.7628 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    In a bit of an addendum to these questions (since these are half of my Zhaitan questions anyways):

    1. What was Zhaitan's unique weakness?

    ^ @Andrew Gray.5816 This.

    This please. It's been on my mind since... forever. I've reached some conclusions, but I have no idea which one is correct. And even if one is correct, they are really vague ideas.
    For example: If we defeated Zhaitan without exploiting his weakness, does this mean we are able to kill Elder Dragons without such knowledge? Then how is that past heroes could never kill them, even though we have clear evidence that some of our "predecessors" were doing intensive research on the topic. And if that's not then case then did we unknowingly kill Zhaitan with it's weakness? If so, then what is it? We have killed his "Eyes" and "Mouths" as we progressed through the story, but it never really felt like we hit him hard, more like, we slowed down his progress into Central Tyria, so I very much doubt "eliminating his minions" is his weakness. Even more so, because he obviously starts with 0 minions.
    I highly suspect that if we found it's weakness, it was the laser used by the Glory of Tyria. If I gathered it correctly, it is using some sort of Mist Energy? If so then since the Mist is kinda part of everything, or more like, everything is part of the Mist, does this mean that this Laser could potentially kill any of the Elder Dragons? If so, then if we can make such weapons, couldn't the Gods make us (or have us make) some sort of Artifact before that uses this very same energy to kill the Elder Dragons, instead of them "searching for a new place"?

    Another topic connected to the Elder Dragons that is bugging me is, do the Elder Dragons inherit in one form or another the weaknesses of dead Elder Dragons? For example, when Mordemoth died, his domain or magic was taken over by the other Elder Dragons. We can see Primordus having Vine-Touched minions for example. Does this mean they also took over their weakness in some form? For example, can we weaken Primordus by attacking it's mind?

    Praise Joko!

  • Sojourner.4621Sojourner.4621 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cregath.7628 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    In a bit of an addendum to these questions (since these are half of my Zhaitan questions anyways):

    1. What was Zhaitan's unique weakness?

    ^ @Andrew Gray.5816 This.

    This please. It's been on my mind since... forever. I've reached some conclusions, but I have no idea which one is correct. And even if one is correct, they are really vague ideas.
    For example: If we defeated Zhaitan without exploiting his weakness, does this mean we are able to kill Elder Dragons without such knowledge? Then how is that past heroes could never kill them, even though we have clear evidence that some of our "predecessors" were doing intensive research on the topic. And if that's not then case then did we unknowingly kill Zhaitan with it's weakness? If so, then what is it? We have killed his "Eyes" and "Mouths" as we progressed through the story, but it never really felt like we hit him hard, more like, we slowed down his progress into Central Tyria, so I very much doubt "eliminating his minions" is his weakness. Even more so, because he obviously starts with 0 minions.
    I highly suspect that if we found it's weakness, it was the laser used by the Glory of Tyria. If I gathered it correctly, it is using some sort of Mist Energy? If so then since the Mist is kinda part of everything, or more like, everything is part of the Mist, does this mean that this Laser could potentially kill any of the Elder Dragons? If so, then if we can make such weapons, couldn't the Gods make us (or have us make) some sort of Artifact before that uses this very same energy to kill the Elder Dragons, instead of them "searching for a new place"?

    Another topic connected to the Elder Dragons that is bugging me is, do the Elder Dragons inherit in one form or another the weaknesses of dead Elder Dragons? For example, when Mordemoth died, his domain or magic was taken over by the other Elder Dragons. We can see Primordus having Vine-Touched minions for example. Does this mean they also took over their weakness in some form? For example, can we weaken Primordus by attacking it's mind?

    I think something worth noting about the design, in particular, of pact technology is that every culture contributes just a little something to it. The primary structures and designs seem to be Charr and Asura its true, but when you get down to the energy source something has always struck me... everything is powered by vines overflowing with a blue magical energy. It isn't "mists" magic at all, it is Sylvari magic and so by definition Dragon magic. Mordremoth was the dragon of the mind, but also of Growth, plants and life... perhaps we did accidentally defeat him with his weakness after all.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To piggy back on Konig’s question. Could Mordremoth also make minions as well, not through the cloning process? I couldn’t find any creature resembling a vine tooth and there doesn’t appear to be many of them. If that’s the case is this what the Pale Tree did for the creation of Sylvari?

  • Cregath.7628Cregath.7628 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    To piggy back on Konig’s question. Could Mordremoth also make minions as well, not through the cloning process? I couldn’t find any creature resembling a vine tooth and there doesn’t appear to be many of them. If that’s the case is this what the Pale Tree did for the creation of Sylvari?

    In my opinion the Sylvari are more or less just cloned humans.
    Faolain has a Vine-Tooth body at the latter half of HoT, so that's probably a creation of his (if I'm not mixing up them HoT animals).

    Praise Joko!

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I’m just trying to remember, I recall that the Vinetooth were designed specifically to combat exalted, but you only see around the game usually in areas near or adjacent to auric basin. This leaves me to believe that Mordremoth grew them and if they are anything like the Sylvari, they take a while to bake, hence their lack of numbers. I guess the custom jobs like Vinetooth and Sylvari take longer to grow.

  • Cregath.7628Cregath.7628 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    I’m just trying to remember, I recall that the Vinetooth were designed specifically to combat exalted, but you only see around the game usually in areas near or adjacent to auric basin. This leaves me to believe that Mordremoth grew them and if they are anything like the Sylvari, they take a while to bake, hence their lack of numbers. I guess the custom jobs like Vinetooth and Sylvari take longer to grow.

    If that's true then Mordremoth definitely fused Faolain with a Vine-Tooth in no time though. Maybe they are actually controlled my Morthremoth himself? With noone in between? While the Sylvari are more or less were controlled with the Dream I think. Think of it as a Broadcast message in internet connections. Every computer gets the message and handles it as if it was addressed to it. On the other hand he would keep constant track of his Vine-Tooth and give them specific commands at all times. That's how I think about it.

    Praise Joko!

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cregath.7628 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    I’m just trying to remember, I recall that the Vinetooth were designed specifically to combat exalted, but you only see around the game usually in areas near or adjacent to auric basin. This leaves me to believe that Mordremoth grew them and if they are anything like the Sylvari, they take a while to bake, hence their lack of numbers. I guess the custom jobs like Vinetooth and Sylvari take longer to grow.

    If that's true then Mordremoth definitely fused Faolain with a Vine-Tooth in no time though. Maybe they are actually controlled my Morthremoth himself? With noone in between? While the Sylvari are more or less were controlled with the Dream I think. Think of it as a Broadcast message in internet connections. Every computer gets the message and handles it as if it was addressed to it. On the other hand he would keep constant track of his Vine-Tooth and give them specific commands at all times. That's how I think about it.

    Yeah maybe he had a partially grown vine tooth somewhere and spliced Faolin with it.

    I do recall at Bitter Harvest that Caithe said there’s only Mordremoth behind those eyes, when describing Faolin.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cregath.7628 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    I’m just trying to remember, I recall that the Vinetooth were designed specifically to combat exalted, but you only see around the game usually in areas near or adjacent to auric basin. This leaves me to believe that Mordremoth grew them and if they are anything like the Sylvari, they take a while to bake, hence their lack of numbers. I guess the custom jobs like Vinetooth and Sylvari take longer to grow.

    If that's true then Mordremoth definitely fused Faolain with a Vine-Tooth in no time though. Maybe they are actually controlled my Morthremoth himself? With noone in between? While the Sylvari are more or less were controlled with the Dream I think. Think of it as a Broadcast message in internet connections. Every computer gets the message and handles it as if it was addressed to it. On the other hand he would keep constant track of his Vine-Tooth and give them specific commands at all times. That's how I think about it.

    If Mordremoth can use his Blighting Trees to also make Vinetooth as a custom job, with a special purpose. For all we know, these Vinetooth could have been growing when Mordremoth was stirring, perhaps that what the Pale Tree did.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    With Zhaitan having two spectrums of Death and Shadow, the former sphere is pretty evident.

    I had a theory that when Risen spawn they teleport in using black and green effects. Is this the shadow magic sphere that Zhaitan used?

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