Revenants and their invocations — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Revenants and their invocations

First of all, thank you for this opportunity to answer the community's questions!

I have been wondering... since LWS4 Episode 1, "The Hero of Istan" shows that Revenant Players in their cell could invoke Joko's power, despite Joko showing up later in said episode ... is it necessary for the legend a revenant is trying to invoke to be dead? (which is the case with most legends the player uses)
Or can they also channel still-living legends that have left "their mark on the mists" before? (see Joko in that episode)
Or does Joko in particular not anide to the laws of "dead" or "alive" since he's a lich?
OR was Joko in this episode's case just a small joke without any lore significance and I am interpreting too much into it all?

On that note: if a legend is invoked and they start interacting with their revenant, are we talking to the legend at the point in time they placed their mark on the world, or to the legend after it has died?

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Answers

  • foozlesprite.8051foozlesprite.8051 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    @Juli.8327 said:
    On that note: if a legend is invoked and they start interacting with their revenant, are we talking to the legend at the point in time they placed their mark on the world, or to the legend after it has died?

    I would imagine after they died, since Shiro asks what's happened to Cantha.

  • Ruadan.9301Ruadan.9301 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    My opinion: Said legendary figure is NOT required to be dead, but is required to be - or have been - in the Mists. Death is just the most common way of getting to the Mists, so most Revenant legends linger there.
    Things like Rev channeling Joko, I believe is possible because there is no real concept of time in the Mists. A Rev can just reach behind the veil and draw from a certain legendary figure within the span of Eternity. To be honest, I even think a Rev (from a lore point of view) can channel legendary figures who, from a Tyrian perspective, have not yet been to the mists, nor yet become legendary, all that matters is that such a thing lies in their future. (Imagine a Legendary Lord Faren.) But I think the Rev class will stick to characters who really are already dead and legendary and have been for a long time, so as not to spoil, confuse, or create weird plot situations.

  • I'd like to ask a different question regarding the legends a revenant can invoke:

    We know that at the moment the revenant can invoke legends like Shiro, Jalis, Mallyx... basically prominent characters from guild wars 1 (and more or less the time between gw1 and gw2).
    As far as I understand the mists so far, there are different versions of Tyria in the mists, which are colliding together at the edge of the mists, the borderlands and the eternal battleground (lore explanation for the mist war?)
    Can there be different versions of a character which a revenant could invoke, for example a Shiro who didn't get misguided by Abbadon and entered the mists as a hero of Cantha?

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    the problem with the mist theory is abbadon, he never really died and never got into the mist.
    he was sealed away by the 5 gods but unsealed in the nightfall expansion,

    his essence was absorbed or accepted by kormir when she was still human.

    so how can they explain that part, you can't call upon a power that can't be used at all.

  • Ruadan.9301Ruadan.9301 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    the problem with the mist theory is abbadon, he never really died and never got into the mist.
    he was sealed away by the 5 gods but unsealed in the nightfall expansion,

    his essence was absorbed or accepted by kormir when she was still human.

    so how can they explain that part, you can't call upon a power that can't be used at all.

    Well, Abaddon is not a Revenant legend so far, so I do not know why you mention him. Mallyx is one, but that is not the same. He is a legendary Margonite leader who has tamed many demons for his master, which justifies him being a Legend of the Mists, I suppose.

  • @Ruadan.9301 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    the problem with the mist theory is abbadon, he never really died and never got into the mist.
    he was sealed away by the 5 gods but unsealed in the nightfall expansion,

    his essence was absorbed or accepted by kormir when she was still human.

    so how can they explain that part, you can't call upon a power that can't be used at all.

    Well, Abbadon is not a Revenant legend so far, so I do not know why you mention him. Mallyx is one, but that is not the same. He is a legendary Margonite leader who has tamed many demons for his master, which justifies him being a Legend of the Mists, I suppose.

    @Ruadan.9301 is entirely correct. Abaddon is not a revenant legend and so really isn't part of this equation.

    --Scott McG
    ArenaNet Narrative Team

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Scott McGough.6897 said:
    Great question!
    Revenant Legends (the entities a revenant summons to access their skills) don't have to be dead to be summoned--they aren't ghosts or spirits of those entities, they are echoes of that persona that exist in the Mists; snapshots, if you will, of the entities, who are routinely high-profile, powerful personalities that had major impacts on the world.
    Similar to how Fractals physically and magically recreate historical events--it's not time travel and you're not literally reliving the historic event (i.e., you can't change the outcome--you can't prevent the Searing, for example, no matter how many times you beat the Urban Battleground Fractal), but instead you're experiencing a copy of it that's more or less identical to the original.

    Seeing how the Mists are connected to all times and places in the multiverse, would it be possible to summon a legend of a future warrior rather than a past (or present, in the case of the Joko legend)?

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Revenant Legends ... are echoes of that persona that exist in the Mists

    I love this as a concept. Interesting for lore and also allows for all sorts of game mechanics.


    Slight correction (that's completely irrelevant to the point being made)

    you can't prevent the Searing, for example, no matter how many times you beat wipe at the Urban Battleground Fractal

    (In the Fractal, we're helping the Flame Legion, not the humans. or even the other Charr)

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Scott McGough.6897 said:

    @Ruadan.9301 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    the problem with the mist theory is abbadon, he never really died and never got into the mist.
    he was sealed away by the 5 gods but unsealed in the nightfall expansion,

    his essence was absorbed or accepted by kormir when she was still human.

    so how can they explain that part, you can't call upon a power that can't be used at all.

    Well, Abbadon is not a Revenant legend so far, so I do not know why you mention him. Mallyx is one, but that is not the same. He is a legendary Margonite leader who has tamed many demons for his master, which justifies him being a Legend of the Mists, I suppose.

    @Ruadan.9301 is entirely correct. Abaddon is not a revenant legend and so really isn't part of this equation.

    Though this does raise a question. All legends so far have been mortals. Can a god or Elder Dragon be channeled as a legend?

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Gambit.9501Gambit.9501 Member ✭✭

    @Scott McGough.6897 said:
    Revenant Legends (the entities a revenant summons to access their skills) don't have to be dead to be summoned--they aren't ghosts or spirits of those entities, they are echoes of that persona that exist in the Mists; snapshots, if you will, of the entities, who are routinely high-profile, powerful personalities that had major impacts on the world.

    I'm a little confused here. How does this play into what was previously stated about Revenants in the "Hidden Arcana" article from 2015?
    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/hidden-arcana-role-playing-the-revenant/

    "A revenant’s legends are not merely echoes of the past but are fully sentient, with opinions and personalities of their own. What this means for the relationship between revenant and legend varies between individuals, as some legends are considerably more thrilled about being channeled than others."

  • RMD.2957RMD.2957 Member ✭✭

    From what I understand, they are formed from those echoes.

    So when a revenant gathers all those echoes of an individual, they gain a pseudo-ego, of sorts.
    This is also why Joko isn't a legend we can use (yet), as the revenant only gathered one particular echo. Which should be of when Joko managed to escape his imprisonment.

    PS: Inconsistencies always show up in writing, especially when its something as large as this game's lore and world and mostly in regards to smaller details. Not defending, just pointing it out.

  • ReLiFeD.7418ReLiFeD.7418 Member
    edited April 27, 2018

    @Scott McGough.6897 said:

    @Juli.8327 said:
    First of all, thank you for this opportunity to answer the community's questions!

    I have been wondering... since LWS4 Episode 1, "The Hero of Istan" shows that Revenant Players in their cell could invoke Joko's power, despite Joko showing up later in said episode ... is it necessary for the legend a revenant is trying to invoke to be dead? (which is the case with most legends the player uses)
    Or can they also channel still-living legends that have left "their mark on the mists" before? (see Joko in that episode)
    Or does Joko in particular not anide to the laws of "dead" or "alive" since he's a lich?
    OR was Joko in this episode's case just a small joke without any lore significance and I am interpreting too much into it all?

    On that note: if a legend is invoked and they start interacting with their revenant, are we talking to the legend at the point in time they placed their mark on the world, or to the legend after it has died?

    Great question!
    Revenant Legends (the entities a revenant summons to access their skills) don't have to be dead to be summoned--they aren't ghosts or spirits of those entities, they are echoes of that persona that exist in the Mists; snapshots, if you will, of the entities, who are routinely high-profile, powerful personalities that had major impacts on the world.
    Similar to how Fractals physically and magically recreate historical events--it's not time travel and you're not literally reliving the historic event (i.e., you can't change the outcome--you can't prevent the Searing, for example, no matter how many times you beat the Urban Battleground Fractal), but instead you're experiencing a copy of it that's more or less identical to the original.

    Does that mean a revenant could also potentially invoke an elder dragon or god as their legend? Seeing as they are basically the entities with the most impact on Tyria?

    Edit: Only just saw Konig also asked this question