How would you redesign the elementalist? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

How would you redesign the elementalist?

2

Comments

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    More fields types (at least an earth field maybe more such as alternative version of fields such as water and ice but with other types so an air field a lava field a if they add in earth a sand field etc..)
    More finishers (blast is nice but that the main thing ele has i want to see a good leap projectile and whereirl and even more)
    More finishers added effects (just giving fury from blasting fire is nice but it feels waited when ele has more then fire fields to play with and one hopes more finsher type effects with leap projectile and wheiril).

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    New idea, sounds crazy, but stick with me:

    Remove Earth and Air attunements, merging them into Fire and Water.

    Yeah, you read that right. This would leave the elementalist with only two attunements, Heat (Fire+Earth) and Cold (Water+Air). Thematically, there are no problems there, fire comes from the earth anyway (lava), and water combines well with air (storms). Consequences of this:

    • Two attunements allow the design to focus on a dual role (attack/defense), unfeasible with four attunements. Easier to balance and create cool combos.
    • We can move away from a single weapon set with 20 skills, and enable weapon swap for two weapon sets with 10 skills each. Solves the melee/ranged role problems.
    • Two attunements don't have the workload of four, and thus, we can keep the unique skills in each mode. No normalization is needed, like in my previous ideas.
    • Like in previous ideas, conjures can be removed, and turned into new weapons. I would enable shortbow and greatsword usage, with similar roles as their conjure originals. The conjure slot skill family would then be replaced by minions, which would become independent from glyphs and current attunement. The skill summoning a fire elemental would summon a fire elemental no matter your current attunement.
    • Original attunement distinction for slot skills would remain intact, since they aren't affected by the current attunement anyway. Skills like Signet of Fire and Signet of Earth keep their original names.
    • We can focus on burning and chilling conditions much more.

    How would this redesign affect the elite specializations?

    • Tempest gets burst skills instead of overloads. These burst skills change depending on the current weapon and the current attunement. Burst skills are now "bigger and better", almost like an ultimate, but take longer to use.
    • Weaver loses the Dual Attack mechanic. Instead, we get a temporary attunement fusion, like the warrior's berserker mode, with a stat boost and five new weapon skills. Off-hand sword is enabled. Stances are moved to the core profession, swapping them with glyphs, which fit weaver better now. Glyphs have a different effect depending on the two attunements and the fusion.

    I love my four attunements, but I think this could be a pretty good solution, and solve most of the problems, if not all of them. What we have now is kinda pointless most of the time. Great for aesthetics, but a burden for gameplay.

    So, opinions? I know it's pretty drastic, but I'm surprised it works so well.

    @Blue.1207 said:
    Remove conjures from Ele and you have a good class with a fun rotation.

    I wish conjures were actual weapons, and we had weapon swap. So tired of not being able to switch between ranged and melee without needing to exit combat.

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    I would make them the masters of the elements.

    Everybody and their mothers can burn or chill more potently than eles these days.

    Jack of all trades, master of none. That's the problem. This is the post that inspired me to write the above idea with only two attunements.

    Sometimes, more is less, and less is more.

    @Swagg.9236 said:
    Without going into any detail, the best thing I could imagine would be re-balancing everything around Elementalists only having access to two elements at a time. Weaver is still one of the dumbest, bloat-inducing designs that I have ever seen in video games (just slaps on more buttons and shuffles the same, 5-year-old weapon skills around the bar like they're supposed to suddenly be fresh and new). I'd probably tear the blasted thing apart and make it use a not terrible version of conjured weapons. Tempest is mostly in the same ballpark as Weaver (extra buttons slapped on top of old ones; the rawest form of braindead powercreep much like every other elite spec).

    Point being, give Elementalists only an F1 and an F2. Within those slots, they can take up to two respective elements. Elementalists suddenly can get skill rosters that aren't meant to be all blown easy-going in a line. They can have real, concrete playstyle options instead of playing patty-cake with the idea of having any fixed party role.

    I hadn't seen this one before writing the above, but yeah, I now agree wholeheartedly. However, I would make those attunements a fixed thing, not "choose 2 out of 4". You get two, and those are the two you stick with.

    It's the only way we can get some real balance and useful skills once and for all.

  • Bamm.6975Bamm.6975 Member ✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    Something that weaver really needs though, is a new mechanic skill, F5, letting you turn weaving on and off whenever you want for as long as you want, pretty much like Unravel, which would be removed.

    This is what I really want. I love my ele and I find the sword skills fun. I have been trying to make unravel work in PVP and just can't get it to click. It's not enough. The ability to turn the weave OFF is what I need even if that means losing the dual skills as the cost.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Make atuments a bit more vary in there attks types so for each wepon set aside a ranged atument and a melee atument at least one of each. Letting you have real ranged attks on dagger and sword but also letting you have melee or near melee attks on staff scpter.

    As for weaver i would like to see the duel skill not inate you still have your normal 3ed skills for your main atument but by hitting an f5 you flip the 3ed skill into that duel skill. This will lets you have more control over all to what skill you want to use and keep duel skill usable moment to moment. Put the F5 on a 5 sec cd or less making it not a slow down but simply a fix for weaver to not be pushhished for having a duel skill effect as a class tool.

    For tempest i would like to see stronger aura not more boons on auras as well as something more with shouts then just might and weakness. The GM need major reworks as well.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    I love my four attunements, but I think this could be a pretty good solution, and solve most of the problems, if not all of them. What we have now is kinda pointless most of the time. Great for aesthetics, but a burden for gameplay.

    There are no problems with the class mechanic, it works like a charm, it's great thematically (which your "solution" isn't) and I strongly disagree with your assessment of it. I fail to see how it is a "burden". It's versatility. You don't use it all the time - duh! - you use it when the situation is right and you need it. This is a big part of what makes ele feel so great. You're "solving" non-issues, introducing real ones. Like, weapon swap, really? You realize most weapons will have to be gutted for that to happen, don't you?

  • Coldtart.4785Coldtart.4785 Member ✭✭✭

    I wouldn't redesign the whole class, but there are bits and pieces that could do with looking at.

    Weapon skills could do with being a bit more versatile OR conjures more usable in general so that eles aren't constantly range-locked. Some utility skill types and their associated traits are a bit half-hearted (conjures again, signets, most glyphs) and the elite specs are really badly done. Tempest is a whole elite spec based on not changing attunements, which is just absolutely wrong at a conceptual level. That whole spec should basically be thrown out and built again from scratch, but of course that'll never happen. Weaver isn't quite as bad since it actually respects that elementalist is about juggling attunements but all its mechanics are strict downgrades from core and the only reasons to ever use it are for its dps boosts in pve or riptide heal burst in pvp. Very boring and weak execution.

  • Haco.1546Haco.1546 Member ✭✭

    I would begin by changing the skills of the dagger of water and air: instead of a Lightning Whip we would have a Water Whip (as well as water dominators in Avatar [Katara]) and instead of a Vapor Blade we would have an Air Blade. Sorry for that but I can't deal with that and neither with the air specialization use lightning that actually comes from the fire. :lol: :innocent:

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd completely redisign Sword. I think when most players wanted Elementalist sword, they wanted a high damage weapon that captures that spellsword feel, like playing Elderscrolls and using a sword in one hand an a spell in the other. In my mind, I wanted something similar to scepter but with a much potent, meaty melee autoattack. Right now it's just extremely bland.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2018

    I liked the djinn idea someone mentioned and I like the concept of Weave Self, so I would do some sort of attunement count, once you reach x attunement changes, you gain access to f5, f5 transforms you in a djinn based on the attunement you were in (massive damage, support, heal).

    Change either the conjures or signet into wards (unstrippable effects)
    Examples (temporary names):
    Ward of Taimi - while in this ward foes move 33% slower.
    Ward of broken dodge key - while in this ward foes are exhausted and endurance gain skills don't work
    Ward of slow - while in this ward foes attack and cast 50% slower.
    Ward of no F skills - while in this ward foes can't activate F skills.

    Edit: For reference: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ward_spell

    Something like that I guess.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ganathar.4956 said:
    I don't believe that the class needs a complete redesign. But the biggest flaw with balancing elementalist at the moment is the huge amount of damage modifier traits that it possesses. No other class has so many damage modifiers and for good reason. Elementalist can be the best DPS under optimal conditions, but the DPS becomes complete garbage as soon as you have to trait defensively, which is why elementalist struggles to kill enemies with most builds that are used in competetive environments. Half of the damage modifiers should be removed and the base damage of elementalist should be increased. That way the class will no longer be much more trait dependant than other classes. This will also result in greater versatility in builds.

    It actually wouldn't. It will only make ele feel more like the other classes. If I wanted something that felt like the other classes, I would play, you know, another class. The charm of ele is precisely it's high damage potential and the intricate playstyle it takes to make it happen.

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:
    I don't believe that the class needs a complete redesign. But the biggest flaw with balancing elementalist at the moment is the huge amount of damage modifier traits that it possesses. No other class has so many damage modifiers and for good reason. Elementalist can be the best DPS under optimal conditions, but the DPS becomes complete garbage as soon as you have to trait defensively, which is why elementalist struggles to kill enemies with most builds that are used in competetive environments. Half of the damage modifiers should be removed and the base damage of elementalist should be increased. That way the class will no longer be much more trait dependant than other classes. This will also result in greater versatility in builds.

    It actually wouldn't. It will only make ele feel more like the other classes. If I wanted something that felt like the other classes, I would play, you know, another class. The charm of ele is precisely it's high damage potential and the intricate playstyle it takes to make it happen.

    I'm not advocating to change the playstyle or reduce the damage potential. Just to make a bit more of that damage baseline.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:
    I don't believe that the class needs a complete redesign. But the biggest flaw with balancing elementalist at the moment is the huge amount of damage modifier traits that it possesses. No other class has so many damage modifiers and for good reason. Elementalist can be the best DPS under optimal conditions, but the DPS becomes complete garbage as soon as you have to trait defensively, which is why elementalist struggles to kill enemies with most builds that are used in competetive environments. Half of the damage modifiers should be removed and the base damage of elementalist should be increased. That way the class will no longer be much more trait dependant than other classes. This will also result in greater versatility in builds.

    It actually wouldn't. It will only make ele feel more like the other classes. If I wanted something that felt like the other classes, I would play, you know, another class. The charm of ele is precisely it's high damage potential and the intricate playstyle it takes to make it happen.

    I'm not advocating to change the playstyle or reduce the damage potential. Just to make a bit more of that damage baseline.

    But that will change the playstyle. It's about aligning all the modifiers. If you remove them and roll the damage into the baseline, what will you be aligning?

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:
    I don't believe that the class needs a complete redesign. But the biggest flaw with balancing elementalist at the moment is the huge amount of damage modifier traits that it possesses. No other class has so many damage modifiers and for good reason. Elementalist can be the best DPS under optimal conditions, but the DPS becomes complete garbage as soon as you have to trait defensively, which is why elementalist struggles to kill enemies with most builds that are used in competetive environments. Half of the damage modifiers should be removed and the base damage of elementalist should be increased. That way the class will no longer be much more trait dependant than other classes. This will also result in greater versatility in builds.

    It actually wouldn't. It will only make ele feel more like the other classes. If I wanted something that felt like the other classes, I would play, you know, another class. The charm of ele is precisely it's high damage potential and the intricate playstyle it takes to make it happen.

    I'm not advocating to change the playstyle or reduce the damage potential. Just to make a bit more of that damage baseline.

    But that will change the playstyle. It's about aligning all the modifiers. If you remove them and roll the damage into the baseline, what will you be aligning?

    If you are worried about the playstyle of the group PvE builds changing you should take a look at all the relevant damage modifier traits. Yes, some of them need to be aligned and that dictates playstyle. However, there are also many of them that are essentially passive when in a group. Burning rage, bolt to the heart, swift revenge and bountiful power require no effort on your part to maintain during your raid rotations. Your supports do all the work there for you.

    You can just remove the most passive ones and keep the ones that you actually have to align, it's enough. There need to be damage modifiers, just not the overwhelming amount we have now. I never said to remove all of them.

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 29, 2018

    I would increase the Elementalist's base health from 1,645 to 5,922 to be on par with the mesmer. (Caster profession, cloth armor)

    Ascalon Will Prevail!

    GW Wiki user page | GW2 Wiki user page

  • Horus.9685Horus.9685 Member ✭✭

    I am on board with having 4 meteor showers but besides that pls don’t

  • Martimus.6027Martimus.6027 Member ✭✭✭

    I would make the Tempest overcharging effects much more powerful, and redesign them.

    I would make Fire Overcharge cause a very big meteor to land that knocks enemies down in the area and does heavy damage.

    I would make Water Overcharge cause a cool tidal wave effect to wash across the screen and heal friendly/damage enemies.

    I would make Air Overcharge cause a Tornado to appear and do heavy damage and stun enemies, pulling them towards the center

    I would make Earth Overcharge cause a huge earthquake that does heavy DoT during its effects and causes bleeding to enemies in the area.

    I would make Staff ground spells be instant cast, reduce the cast time of meteor shower, increase water damage and healing, and totally redo the Air attunement staff skills. They are terrible. 1 is decent but needs better damage. 2 is just awful. I would change it to a big blast of ball lightning that moves slowly and continually strikes enemies as it passes by for moderate damage. I would remove 5 altogether and change it to a big lightning strike on a rather long cast time that stuns and does heavy damage at completion. I would make 4 last a bit longer than it does.

    Weaver is fine.

    I may not be what you want, baby, but I am most certainly what you need.

  • Xillllix.3485Xillllix.3485 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2018

    I would scrap Weaver and Tempest and start over with new concepts while rebalancing all the core skills. Massive UNDO.

  • ThiBash.5634ThiBash.5634 Member ✭✭

    I would keep it the way it is now. The elementalist has its own unique flavor of gameplay, with its perks and challenges. Maximizing your strengths while compensating for your weaknesses is the whole idea behind the concept of having different professions. On elementalist, the distinct flavor is having both more and less options within the same weaponset, which really opens up a different style of gameplay.

    Most of the suggestions I see here are 'turn the ele into another profession, because I like that one better'. My solution would be to suggest to those people to play that other profession instead of changing the ele. The variety is what makes the game fun for everyone and changing a profession, that clearly works well for a large number of players. At such, changing it isn't something that should be done on a whim, because you'd end up disappointing a large number of players that really enjoy the way things are now. But I guess that goes for any profession.

    TL;DR
    Keep what makes the ele unique and only make alterations that allows for its playstyle to remain the way it is.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ThiBash.5634 said:
    I would keep it the way it is now. The elementalist has its own unique flavor of gameplay, with its perks and challenges. Maximizing your strengths while compensating for your weaknesses is the whole idea behind the concept of having different professions. On elementalist, the distinct flavor is having both more and less options within the same weaponset, which really opens up a different style of gameplay.

    Most of the suggestions I see here are 'turn the ele into another profession, because I like that one better'. My solution would be to suggest to those people to play that other profession instead of changing the ele. The variety is what makes the game fun for everyone and changing a profession, that clearly works well for a large number of players. At such, changing it isn't something that should be done on a whim, because you'd end up disappointing a large number of players that really enjoy the way things are now. But I guess that goes for any profession.

    TL;DR
    Keep what makes the ele unique and only make alterations that allows for its playstyle to remain the way it is.

    The class has been changed dramatically since launch , it has gone through a tough cycle of nerfs and subpar buffs that did nothing to fix the fundamental issues of the class : heal gear or die instantly - heal burst or die. The playstyle is the same since launch : water/arcana or die....but at the same time other professions have evolved , their traitlines overhauled and weak weapon skills buffed....people only want to see a fair treatment for this class

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • ThiBash.5634ThiBash.5634 Member ✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    people only want to see a fair treatment for this class

    That can be done while keeping the ele's unique playstyle though. I'd rather not they scrapped all of the potential ele has to offer, simply because certain meta builds are very popular. There's so much things an ele can do that are, at the moment, simply underpowered. If tuned correctly, they could open up a ton of fun gameplay.

    For example, I know people hardly use it, but there's a fun little combo in staff where blasting Frozen Ground with Ice Spike and/or Eruption casts an AoE Frost Aura. Instead of removing Frozen Ground in favor of some random dps or healing skill, I'd rather see that combo become a viable option during regular gameplay (getting auras to stack in duration would and/or mimic ranger spirit buffs would be one way to achieve said goal).

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 6, 2018

    Revisiting the redesign ideas in a short way, plus some new elite specialization ideas to see how this redesign would improve future content too:

    • Elementalist: We're now down to 2 attunements instead of 4. These new attunements are Flame (Fire + Earth) and Frost (Water + Air), located in mechanic slots F1 and F2 respectively. Flame focuses on condition damage and toughness, and frost focuses on direct damage and healing. All weapon skills are redesigned recycling the originals, and made more powerful than what they are now. Weapon swap is enabled, and the following weapons are unlocked for the core profession: axes, shield, greatsword, hammer, and shortbow. Conjure slot skills are removed, replaced by minions. Glyphs including minions are modified to have different effects. Elementalists gain a new mechanic, elemental combos, allowing them to combine skills with unique properties to perform stronger attacks. For example, performing a fire field over an ice field counts as an elemental combo, destroying both fields to create an explosion of steam that burns enemies and heals allies.

    • Tempest: New mechanic skill F3 contains a burst skill, dependent on the current main-hand weapon and the current attunement. A new resource accumulates automatically the longer you don't swap neither weapons nor attunements. This resource increases the effectiveness of the burst skill when used, turning them into a very powerful attack at maximum energy.

    • Weaver: Dual Attacks are gone. You can now temporarily fuse both attunements into one, using mechanic skill F3. During this fusion, every time you use a weapon skill, it changes to the other attunement for the next time, letting you combine multiple weapon skills from each attunement without needing to swap the whole set every time. This phase is temporary, but its duration can be extended by performing elemental combos, which is far easier than normal thanks to the fusion process. Weapon swap remains available during the attunement fusion, but swaps attunements for each skill slot.

    • Dervish: New mechanic skill F3 allows the elementalist to transform into a djinn spirit, replacing your weapon skills with new djinn abilities, while also giving you a health and attribute boost. You choose one out of three djinn forms, each wielding a different djinn weapon for different transformed skills, these being Scythe, Staff, and Trident. Attunement swap is still available while transformed, and turns you into the other attunement's djinn form when used. The new weapon is the scythe, and the new slot skills are wells.

    • Shaman: The new mechanic is an effigy pet, with controls located at mechanic slots F3, F4 and F5. There's three to choose from: Arcane (asura golem, like Zojja's, direct damage), Forged (Flame Legion construct, condition damage), and Sand (Olmakhan elemental, support). The effigies are affected by attunement swaps, healing and gaining alternate abilities. Constant swapping makes the effigy stronger. The new weapon is the longbow, and the new slot skills are totems, working much like engineer turrets.

    • Chaplain: The new mechanic is a relic, much like Ventari's Tablet, controlled through mechanic slots F3, F4, and F5. The active relic is tied to the current attunement, Flame spawning an Anvil and Frost a Cauldron. The relics empower the support abilities of the chaplain, and can be turned into enemy objects for the chaplain to attack, gaining more bonuses the more damage he does to it. The new weapons are maces, specially designed for smiting the relics, and the new slot skills are mantras.

    @TheQuickFox.3826 said:
    I would increase the Elementalist's base health from 1,645 to 5,922 to be on par with the mesmer. (Caster profession, cloth armor)

    Yeah, that's an important one. Elementalist should be in the mid health tier, swapping places with mesmer, who fits the glass cannon role much better.

  • Phyrak.7260Phyrak.7260 Member ✭✭

    I am probably one of the the few who enjoys the solo aspect of ele in camping a single element.

    If such a thing were viable for play - not just the back line wvw fire camper; but rather the chosen element being brought into a new light.

    A potential of this being base stat buffs (hp) for being in the chosen element along with a small buff to CD's.

    Keys 1 and 5 would be changed to something a bit more powerful/fitting as current auto's are lacking.

    The other thing I would like to change would be how conjures work.
    Have them as non shareable wearable 'mantles' as Kael'thas of Warcraft and his floating orbs.

    You can choose a particular element in whatever element you are in - abilities now look more like some of the greater elementals we fight (the earth golem at the start of the human tutorial).
    This gives a real master of the elements view.

    The elite on the other hand is set to your chosen element and cannot be mixed and matched - due to this; it is similar to its base counterpart but with damage/multipliers increased and a change to an ability or two

    Giving the impression of a savant ,master and legend in the chosen element

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd make it horribly OP and break the game because I don't really know anything about game design. Numbers don't lie though and player experience should count for something. It should be fun, feel good, work thematically with your class.

    There's something off if another class can do a two button rotation and achieve near what your class can do only under a very strict rotation and only under the most ideal of circumstances.

    Elementalist is the glass canon mage of the classes and it doesn't feel like the canon part of the equation pays out for the drawbacks of the glass bit in high end content. It'll "work". Elementalist is and will be the "top DPS"... by like 2-5k damage.

    But given what the elementalist has to do and what has to be built around the ele to achieve these numbers that other classes can approach with a much shorter skill ceiling?

    Dedicated speed clear guilds may have a place for an ele. But the average player meta will probably push them out in favor of classes that can achieve near the same damage more consistently with less risk.

    I don't want that to happen. So uhh... whatever makes that not happen. Without screwing up or scrapping what we already have established.

  • Oogabooga.3812Oogabooga.3812 Member ✭✭✭

    I want to see a viable condition damage spec. The specialization could be called Avatar and take on torch offhand.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Oogabooga.3812 said:
    I want to see a viable condition damage spec. The specialization could be called Avatar and take on torch offhand.

    Sword weaver can be built condi in every game mode. It has pretty good dps in pve too.

  • shinta.8906shinta.8906 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2018

    main problem on ele i see is, that the combo system - which once upon a time was good - is holding it back. the combo on ele works between your weaponskills while most other classes combos are an interaction between utility/proffession F-skills AND weapon skills. our F skills are very much behind - get a boon on swap at max IF in arcana.
    start looking at what other proffessions f-skills do:

    • thief is loaded on steal with heal, dmg, cc, utility
    • ranger movement, burst, utility, heal, support
    • guard dmg, support, heal
    • engi whatever u need and on holo aoe dmg
    • nec dmg,support, second hp bar
    • mesmer dmg, utility, invurln
    • rev stunbreak, dmg, another utility bar/another role
    • war burst dmg, defense, heal

    • and now ele a boon if in arcana and nothing if not in there

    wheres the croud controle, the dmg, support, heal of other proffessions?

    balance the onedimensional and hollow ele style on our proffesssion skills. its currently a free slot.

    i get that ele needs a target
    i get that ele needs to aim on that visible target
    i get that ele has super slow attacks
    i get that everyone elses dodge is loaded
    i get that everyone else is better at burn or chill
    i get that ele has nothing that makes it special no immunity, no disengage potential and no other uniqueness

    but i dont get why since 4 years nothing is done about it!

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shinta.8906 said:
    main problem on ele i see is, that the combo system - which once upon a time was good - is holding it back. the combo on ele works between your weaponskills while most other classes combos are an interaction between utility/proffession F-skills AND weapon skills. our F skills are very much behind - get a boon on swap at max IF in arcana.
    start looking at what other proffessions f-skills do:

    • thief is loaded on steal
    • ranger movement, burst, utility
    • guard dmg, support, heal
    • engi whatever u need and on holo aoe dmg
    • nec dmg,support, second hp bar
    • mesmer dmg, utility, invurln
    • rev stunbreak, dmg, another utility bar/another role
    • war burst dmg, defense, heal

    • and now ele a boon if in arcana and nothing if not in there

    wheres the croud controle, the dmg, support, heal of other proffessions?

    balance the onedimensional and hollow ele style on our proffesssion skills. its currently a free slot.

    i get that ele needs a target
    i get that ele needs to aim on that visible target
    i get that ele has super slow attacks
    i get that everyone else is better at burn or chill
    i get that ele has nothing that makes it special no immunity and no other uniqueness

    but i dont get why since 4 years nothing is done about it!

    You get damage, defense, support, mobility etc.
    from weapon skills after using F skills though. Funny how you included different utility bar/role on rev but forgot different weapon skills on ele.

    You get free power, movement speed, precision, toughness, additional regen, immunity to crits, fire aura, condi cleanse, damage on attunement swap.

  • shinta.8906shinta.8906 Member ✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    You get free power, movement speed, precision, toughness, additional regen, immunity to crits, fire aura, condi cleanse, damage on attunement swap.

    pls show on buildplaner. i love those 3030303030 builds ppl swing around in arguments. other proffessions have the same possibilities u mentioned on their weapon and utility skills and ON TOP they get use out of their proffession skills. our proffession skill is that we get excess to our weapon skills? and you celebrate that? much wow.

    yeah i forgot the lazy stat trait. u do know that elemental polyphony just means that they admit our current multipliers are behind and instead of fixing it skill by skill they place one hollow trait that now holds a spot for a deeper proffession experience?

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shinta.8906 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    You get free power, movement speed, precision, toughness, additional regen, immunity to crits, fire aura, condi cleanse, damage on attunement swap.

    pls show on buildplaner. i love those 3030303030 builds ppl swing around in arguments. other proffessions have the same possibilities u mentioned on their weapon and utility skills and ON TOP they get use out of their proffession skills. our proffession skill is that we get excess to our weapon skills? and you celebrate that? much wow.

    yeah i forgot the lazy stat trait. u do know that elemental polyphony just means that they admit our current multipliers are behind and instead of fixing it skill by skill they place one hollow trait that now holds a spot for a deeper proffession experience?

    You dont get all bonuses, but you can have at least half of those at any point.

    Each class is designed around different mechanics. Ele gets 4 sets of weapon skills and thief gets only one gap close. Rev gets legend swap, which works same like attunements. You can trait those to stun break, but you can also stun break with overloads or with vast amount of selectable utilities (which revs dont have, they use what they get). Other clssses don't have same possibilities since they dont have 25 skills by default. Other classes dont have conjured weapons on top of 25 skills. Other classes dont have aoe dps weapon on max range...

    Each class has its own pros and cons, but comparing cons of one class with pros of every other class is pointless, especially if your class has access to some of those mentioned pros.

  • shinta.8906shinta.8906 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2018

    @steki.1478 said:

    Each class has its own pros and cons, but comparing cons of one class with pros of every other class is pointless, especially if your class has access to some of those mentioned pros.

    i know that. i just question the fact why ele is the only class that has the cons on it (1 boon + 2 might and a reduced cd) while any other proff gets actually usefull and unique stuff. if i d had acces to weaponswitch sigills instead i'd get more use out of them than the whole of arcana line.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shinta.8906 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    Each class has its own pros and cons, but comparing cons of one class with pros of every other class is pointless, especially if your class has access to some of those mentioned pros.

    i know that. i just question the fact why ele is the only class that has the cons on it (1 boon + 2 might and a reduced cd) while any other proff gets actually usefull and unique stuff. if i d had acces to weaponswitch sigills instead i'd get more use out of them than the whole of arcana line.

    Because you get additional effects from each attunement specialization and because other classes dont have 25 skills.

    Ele's traits improve weapon skills per element (which is all weapons at once, with one trait), but other classes get 1 trait per weapon (or two) and different traits for F skills.

  • shinta.8906shinta.8906 Member ✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    Because you get additional effects from each attunement specialization and because other classes dont have 25 skills.

    u mean probably atunement traitline? i run all of them. i got reduced cd on all my atunements. it's op.

    i also got not only 25 skills (4x5 right?) i doubled it and got 50. because magic.

    Ele's traits improve weapon skills per element (which is all weapons at once, with one trait), but other classes get 1 trait per weapon (or two)

    yeah all weapons on ele fullfill the same role. doesnt matter. because reduced fire cd is also op on scepter.

    other professions have their weapon cd traits actually in lines that are tight to those weapons. so a whole line full of traits that makes their role on respective weapon easier or stronger in the one or other direction.

    and different traits for F skills.

    exactly what i stated at the start of that meaningless discussion. our traits for profession F-skills are a hollow shell meanwhile all other classes have dedicated trailines defining their F-abilities.

  • Hot Boy.7138Hot Boy.7138 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blue.1207 said:
    Remove conjures from Ele and you have a good class with a fun rotation.

    Yeah, conjures isn't fun to me at all.

    Also, I dont think weavers should have a GCD on attunement swap. I'd just balance the skills around there not being a GCD. Weaving skills should be fluid and on a whim. That's just my strong opinion.

  • tekfan.3179tekfan.3179 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2018

    First off I'd change conjure-weapons. The utility-skill gets ammunition-charges, up to two. If you don't hold the summoned weapon, the weapon will be conjured to your hands, nothing more. Once you hold the weapon, the utility-skill changes, allowing you to place the second cast onto the ground like usual. If you drop your conjure, the utility-skill changes back and sets it to a cooldown. This way you stay mobile should your rotation require the conjured weapons, no one can snag them up and combat areas aren't as cluttered with weapons.

    I'm relatively OK with the Tempest, only the water-overload is a little underwhelming.

    There is one thing that greatly bothers me with the weaver. Namely that the prior mainhand attunement switches to offhand on attuning to a different element. It makes me feel like the attunements are like a book-stack that you sort on your nighttable, rather than elemental magic.
    I'd rather have total control over main- and offhand. Maybe something like this: F1 - F4 for mainhand-attunement, (Strg+F1) - (Strg+F4) for offhand-attunement.

    Cast-Times which root you to the ground also feel highly unintuitive in GW2s flexible combat-system, although I understand the premise of the added complexity and risk.
    It wouldn't be that bad if dodging would be a bit more responsive to cancel long casts like Meteor Shower, should the need arise.

    A little less cast time on auto-hits would be nice as well.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @CETheLucid.3964 said:
    I'd make it horribly OP and break the game because I don't really know anything about game design. Numbers don't lie though and player experience should count for something. It should be fun, feel good, work thematically with your class.

    There's something off if another class can do a two button rotation and achieve near what your class can do only under a very strict rotation and only under the most ideal of circumstances.

    Elementalist is the glass canon mage of the classes and it doesn't feel like the canon part of the equation pays out for the drawbacks of the glass bit in high end content. It'll "work". Elementalist is and will be the "top DPS"... by like 2-5k damage.

    But given what the elementalist has to do and what has to be built around the ele to achieve these numbers that other classes can approach with a much shorter skill ceiling?

    Dedicated speed clear guilds may have a place for an ele. But the average player meta will probably push them out in favor of classes that can achieve near the same damage more consistently with less risk.

    I don't want that to happen. So uhh... whatever makes that not happen. Without screwing up or scrapping what we already have established.

    That's exactly the problem. You have to do twice the work for a similar result. It doesn't pay off.

    I'd point my fingers at the 4 attunements and the conjures, they make balance a hellscape. Reduce them to 2 attunements, remove conjures, and add weapon swap. Less is more.

    @Oogabooga.3812 said:
    I want to see a viable condition damage spec. The specialization could be called Avatar and take on torch offhand.

    We need more weapons in core, each one being geared towards specific roles.

    @shinta.8906 said:
    main problem on ele i see is, that the combo system - which once upon a time was good - is holding it back. the combo on ele works between your weaponskills while most other classes combos are an interaction between utility/proffession F-skills AND weapon skills. our F skills are very much behind - get a boon on swap at max IF in arcana.
    start looking at what other proffessions f-skills do:

    • thief is loaded on steal with heal, dmg, cc, utility
    • ranger movement, burst, utility, heal, support
    • guard dmg, support, heal
    • engi whatever u need and on holo aoe dmg
    • nec dmg,support, second hp bar
    • mesmer dmg, utility, invurln
    • rev stunbreak, dmg, another utility bar/another role
    • war burst dmg, defense, heal

    • and now ele a boon if in arcana and nothing if not in there

    wheres the croud controle, the dmg, support, heal of other proffessions?

    balance the onedimensional and hollow ele style on our proffesssion skills. its currently a free slot.

    i get that ele needs a target
    i get that ele needs to aim on that visible target
    i get that ele has super slow attacks
    i get that everyone elses dodge is loaded
    i get that everyone else is better at burn or chill
    i get that ele has nothing that makes it special no immunity, no disengage potential and no other uniqueness

    but i dont get why since 4 years nothing is done about it!

    I already suggested a special combo system as the trademark ability of the elementalist, here in this very thread.

    Basically, the idea is to let elementalist merge combo fields, for new effects, so you're encouraged to rotate and stack fields in specific order and timing. For example, fire+water = steam (burning+heal), earth+water = mud (slow+protection), mud+fire = clay (immobilize), etc. You would be able to use both your own fields as well as those summoned by your allies.

    Elementalist would then get its own role, that of boon support. You can take that further, and give him the ability to counter enemy fields as well, or just persistent AoE in general. Enemy places a fire wall? Your team's elementalist can counter it, not by dispelling it, but by turning it into something else.

    @tekfan.3179 said:
    First off I'd change conjure-weapons. The utility-skill gets ammunition-charges, up to two. If you don't hold the summoned weapon, the weapon will be conjured to your hands, nothing more. Once you hold the weapon, the utility-skill changes, allowing you to place the second cast onto the ground like usual. If you drop your conjure, the utility-skill changes back and sets it to a cooldown. This way you stay mobile should your rotation require the conjured weapons, no one can snag them up and combat areas aren't as cluttered with weapons.

    I'm relatively OK with the Tempest, only the water-overload is a little underwhelming.

    There is one thing that greatly bothers me with the weaver. Namely that the prior mainhand attunement switches to offhand on attuning to a different element. It makes me feel like the attunements are like a book-stack that you sort on your nighttable, rather than elemental magic.
    I'd rather have total control over main- and offhand. Maybe something like this: F1 - F4 for mainhand-attunement, (Strg+F1) - (Strg+F4) for offhand-attunement.

    Cast-Times which root you to the ground also feel highly unintuitive in GW2s flexible combat-system, although I understand the premise of the added complexity and risk.
    It wouldn't be that bad if dodging would be a bit more responsive to cancel long casts like Meteor Shower, should the need arise.

    A little less cast time on auto-hits would be nice as well.

    I'd rather just remove conjures altogether, and add them as new weapons, together with weapon swap. At least the shortbow and the greatsword, the other three aren't that unique anyway.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2018

    I don't think ele needs a redesign, I think they just need a base hp buff so they have more options for armor and stat choices. Their dmg has been nerfed too much at this point to warrant the penalty.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2018

    @Blue.1207 said:
    Remove conjures from Ele and you have a good class with a fun rotation.

    I think that Engineer kits and Ele conjures should have a special f5 slot. The menu would drop down for selection, and all kits and conjure would be there, but you can only pick one kit or conjure. This would solve some of the insanity without losing or removing the skills, but would help with the rotation.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2018

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    I don't think ele needs a redesign, I think they just need a base hp buff so they have more options for armor and stat choices. Their dmg has been nerfed too much at this point to warrant the penalty.

    Yeah, speaking of base health, elementalists definitely need to be moved to the mid tier. It's insane that mesmers are there, instead of the lower one, since they're supposed to be more glass cannon than eles. This is how it should be, in my opinion:

    • High: Necromancer, Engineer, Warrior.
    • Mid: Elementalist, Ranger, Guardian.
    • Low: Mesmer, Thief, Revenant.

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @Blue.1207 said:
    Remove conjures from Ele and you have a good class with a fun rotation.

    I think that Engineer kits and Ele conjures should have a special f5 slot. The menu would drop down for selection, and all kits and conjure would be there, but you can only pick one kit or conjure. This would solve some of the insanity without losing or removing the skills, but would help with the rotation.

    Just make them new weapons, and add weapon swap. Conjures are kinda pointless as they are right now anyway.

    Or well, at least turn them into kits, with double ammunition, and do not drop them in the ground for others to take.

  • Zuko.7132Zuko.7132 Member ✭✭✭

    Elementalist is in a bad place in pvp for two reasons.
    1. Elementalist base stats and active defenses are terrible forcing eles to run survivability amulets, which makes them useless
    2. Elementalists don't do anything better than another profession can and have weak traits.

    How to fix?

    • Give each core trait line a purpose that provides a viable role for ele.
    • Boost Elementalist survivability through trait lines

    Fire
    Fire trait line will be focused around might/damage, auras, and boon removal

    • Minor Traits
    1. Burning Precision: 50% Chance on crit to inflict burning for 2 seconds, 3 sec icd per enemy,
    2. Sunspot: Same as before except it now removes a boon from all enemies it hits.
    3. Burning Rage: keep the same, but add burning a foe grants 10 endurance, 5 sec icd
    • Adept
    1. Empowering Aura: Auras grant 200 power, effect does not stack
    2. Extreme Might10 extra Power and Condition Damage per might stack for ele only
    3. Cleansing Flames: Burning an enemy removes a boon, 5 sec icd per enemy
    • Master
    1. Pyromancers Training, keep the same,
    2. Smoothering Auras: keep the same, but add removing a condition from an ally grants 10 endurance
    3. Cauterize: Removing a boon inflicts damage
    • Grandmaster
    1. Burning Strength: Gain 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds when you burn a foe. 2 sec icd. Deal 10% more damage while under the effects of might.
    2. Explosive Purification: Create a fire explosion when striking a burning enemy that deals damage and removes 5 boons from all enemies hit. 15 sec icd.
    3. Powerful Aura: Any aura you grant yourself is granted to nearby allies, auras grant fury and might

    Air
    Air trait line will be focused on debuffs through vuln and weakness, single target damage, cc, and damage buffs

    • Minor
    1. Zephyr's Speed: Keep the 25% movement speed buff but also add 3 seconds of superspeed upon attuning to air.
    2. Electric Discharge: Keep the Same
    3. Raging Storm: keep the same
    • Adept
    1. Zephyr's boon: Fury grants an extra 10% crit chance
    2. Crippling Weakness: Applying Weakness inflicts cripple and 3 stacks of vuln for 3 seconds
    3. Speedy Demise: Deal 7% more damage while under the effects of superspeed
    • Master
    1. Aeromancers Training: Keep the same
    2. Tempest Defense: Keep the same
    3. Inscription: Keep the same, but add casting a glyph grants a buff to nearby allies that causes their next 3 attacks cast Electric discharge
    • Grandmaster
    1. Fresh air: keep the same
    2. Lighting rod: keep the same, but add electric discharge dazes for 1 second
    3. Bolt to the Heart: Electric discharge now applies 7 stacks of vuln for 10 seconds and Critical hits have a 50% chance to cast electric discharge 3 sec icd, the Electric Discharge applies a five second effect on your target that increases your damage to them by 15%

    Earth
    Earth trait line will be focused on personal protection, stability, signets, blasts, and condition protection

    • Minor
    1. Protective Blast: Gain Protection for 3 seconds when performing a blast finisher
    2. Earthen Blast: keep the same but is now a blast finisher
    3. Geomancer's defense: Keep the same
    • Adept
    1. Elemental Shielding: keep the same
    2. Earth's embrace: keep the same
    3. Stable Signet: Signets grant 1 stack of stability for four seconds
    • Master
    1. Geomancer's Training: keep the same
    2. Rock Solid: Gain stability on attuning to earth, stability grants 200 toughness
    3. Punishing Blast: Blast finishes cripple and weaken foes for 2 seconds
    • Grandmaster
    1. Stone Heart: Protection reduces critical damage to the elementalist by 33% aoe 5 sec weakness when critically hit, 20 sec icd
    2. Written in Stone: Keep the same
    3. Diamond Skin: Remove a condition when struck while under the effects of protection receive 33% less condition damage while under the effects of protection(3 sec icd)

    Water
    Water trait line is focused around support through healing, condition hate, and chill

    • Minor
    1. Soothing Mist: keep the same
    2. Healing Ripple: keep the same
    3. Aquatic Healing: Healing is 15% more effective both to allies and you
    • Adept
    1. Soothing Ice: Keep the Same
    2. Conditional Healing: Heal yourself and allies 2% more for each condition on them or you
    3. Stop, Drop, and Roll: Dodging removes a damaging and non-damaging condition from nearby allies
    • Master
    1. Soothing Disruption: Keep the Same but boons are now aoe
    2. Cool Relief: Foes you chill pulse healing to allies while chilled
    3. Aquamancers training: Keep the same, but remove damage boost and add remove condi from allies on water attune
    • Grandmaster
    1. Cleansing Water: Keep the same
    2. Soothing Power: Soothing Mist is 100% more effective, Healing to allies is 25% more effective
    3. Chilling Vulnerability: Gain frost aura for 4 seconds on attuning to water, Applying chill applies 3 stacks of vulnerablity for 8 seconds, Vulnerability now reduces the damage the enemy deals instead of increasing the damage they take

    Arcane
    Arcane trait line focuses on boons, evasion, arcanes skills, and random stuff

    • Minor
    1. Arcane Prowess: keep as is
    2. Elemental Attunement: Keep as is
    3. Elemental Enchantment: Keep as is
    • Adept
    1. Renewing stamina: keep as is
    2. Arcane Precision: keep as is
    3. Arcane Abatement: increase healing
    • Master
    1. Arcane Ressurection: Good for support I guess, leave alone.
    2. Elemental Contingency: leave as is
    3. Final Shielding: Leave as is
    • Grandmaster
    1. Evasive Arcana: Leave as is
    2. Elemental Surge: Leave as is
    3. Bountiful Strength: Deal increased damage for each boon you have. Gain 2 endurance when you gain a boon.

    Tempest
    Do tempest stuff better

    • Minor
    1. Singularity: Keep the same
    2. Stable Conduit: Gain stability when starting an overload
    3. Hardy Conduit: Keep the same
    • Adept
    1. Unstable Conduit: keep the same
    2. Latent Stamina: Applying vigor grants 20 stamina, Gain Vigor when starting and completing an overload.
    3. Gale Song: Keep as is, but add shouts grants 3 seconds of quickness and 5 seconds of swiftness
    • Master
    1. Invigorating Torrents: Keep as is
    2. Tempestuous Aria: Reduce shout cooldown by 20% the next attack of allies affected by a shout inflict 3 seconds of cripple and weakness and slow
    3. Speedy Conduit: Overloads are available two seconds earlier and channel 25% faster
    • Grandmaster
    1. Unstoppable Singularity: keep as is, but add overloads grant superspeed and inflict cripple chill and immob for 3 seconds upon completion.
    2. Elemental Bastion: keep as is
    3. Imbued Melodies: Gain 300 concentration, completing an overload grants Protection, aegis, stability, and regen for 3 seconds to allies.

    Weaver
    Don't really know what to do with this, but I have a few ideas.

    • Woven stride: Gaining swiftness or superspeed removes condis, nix the regen, heal while under the effects of swiftness
    • Boost barrier application all around
  • @Lonami.2987 said:
    Weapon skill normalization.

    This means that every weapon does the same thing, no matter the attunement. Skills would still change, but they would use the same core stats and design, making them easier to balance and design. Few examples:

    I don't hate the idea but at this time, a change that significant could be dangerous.

    Many who play ele might play it specifically because they like the existing attunement system. A change this drastic could see many of them jump ship.

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    The first of them is weapon swap. One of my biggest gripes with elementalist, is being locked to either melee or ranged, and not being able to change without going out of combat.

    I've probably spent more time playing ele than any other profession and not once was I ever bothered by this.

    Ele are a light armour caster class. Ranged combat is the norm.


    Two changes to eles would massively improve them IMO.

    Remove the durations from conjured weapons. Give them a range instead, i.e. they last until dropped or if picked up by another player once they move a certain distance away from the elementalist. Having to summon new ones is annoying, especially when playing with others and there might be just one they want to use.

    Do the same for conjured elementals. If elementals were perma summons like necromancer pets, I'd have been much more into GW2.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2018

    Another round, taking the best pieces of each previous version.

    My main goal is to give elementalist a meaningful core mechanic, where attunements have an actual impact, and aren't just another form of weapon swap, where you just rotate and spam whatever is available. I believe the profession is a clear case of "more is less", so I'm simplifying multiple things for the sake of balance and impact too. I've also given tempest and weaver much more clear roles and playstyles.


    Elementalist

    • You no longer have four attunements available at once. Instead, you choose and equip two, in mechanic slots F1 and F2. Cooldown for attunement swapping has been greatly reduced.
    • Weapon skills in different attunements now have the same base skill mechanic, each attunement adding an extra layer of effects over them. For example, now the second dagger skill is always a cone, the third dagger skill is always a dash, and the fifth staff skill is always a channeled ranged area of effect. Every weapon will play and feel the same no matter the attunement, but you'll still have to pay attention to the extra effects in each one to maximize your efficiency.
    • Individual cooldowns for each weapon skill have been increased, but can be greatly reduced by swapping attunements back and forth, rewarding players who rotate constantly.
    • Weapon swap has been enabled. Greatsword and short bow have been unlocked for the core profession.
    • Each weapon has a dedicated role now. Direct damage is covered by greatsword and short bow, condition damage by daggers and staff, and support by scepter and focus. Attunements no longer define the roles.
    • Auras are no longer available as individual weapon skills.
    • Conjures have been removed, replaced by totems, with a functionality similar to banners and spirits.
    • Glyphs have been repurposed with various support options. Elemental minions are no longer available.
    • Arcane skills have been repurposed into enchantments, with a functionality similar to venoms.
    • Cantrips and signets keep most of their functions intact.
    • Base health gained per level has been increased, from a total of 1,645 to 5,922, leaving elementalist in the medium health tier.

    Tempest

    • Auras have been repurposed as a new type of effect, and renamed as Wards. Like other effects, wards have a limited duration and a number of stacks. The active effect of a ward only triggers when you receive direct damage, consuming one stack every time until you run out of them, in which case the ward effect is removed. Hard crowd control effects can be used to remove multiple ward stacks at once without triggering the active effects.
    • Facets have been renamed as Auras. New mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 contain auras now. Use once to activate the passive effect (Aura), and again to consume it and trigger an active skill (Overload). Each aura has a different effect depending on the active attunement.
    • F3 applies an offensive boon on passive, and triggers a pulsating combo finisher on active.
    • F4 applies a defensive boon on passive, and triggers a pulsating combo field on active.
    • F5 applies a ward on passive, and triggers a pulsating area of effect attack on active.
    • Triggering the active skill of the three auras at once combines and boosts their effects.
    • Swapping attunements while any auras are active will deactivate them automatically, with no cooldown costs. Much like weapon skills, swapping attunements back and forth reduces consumed aura cooldowns.
    • Warhorn now has a dedicated support role.
    • All shouts apply wards now.

    Weaver

    • The four attunements are now available at once, in mechanic slots F1, F2, F3, and F4.
    • Chain skills now hold their chain step after an attunement swap. For example, the first sword skill has a chain attack. You can use it on fire, advancing to step two of the chain, and then swap to water, staying in step two. Successfully rotating between the four attunements with every step unlocks a special fourth step chain skill.
    • Channel skills are no longer canceled by an attunement swap. Instead, the channel effects merge and stack. For example, the fifth staff skill is a channeled area of effect. In fire, the effect is a burning meteor shower, and in water, a frost meteor shower. If you start casting on fire, and swap to water before the channel is over, the channel duration will stack, and both effects will be applied at once. If you successfully channel the four attunements together, you will unlock a new powerful special effect, lasting longer the longer you waited to swap between each attunement during the channeling. If you're interrupted, the whole process will be cancelled, and you'll need to start over again.
    • Sword off-hand has been enabled. Swords now have a dedicated direct damage role.
    • Stances have been repurposed to reward specific attunement swap combinations.

    If you've checked the other profession redesign threads, you'll know my primary goal is to normalize core mechanics, and build elite specializations from a dual profession viewpoint, mechanic-wise. Tempest uses auras, the new guardian core mechanic inspired by herald facets, and weaver is a double elementalist.

    Some new elite specialization ideas to see how the changes could affect them, based on the new core mechanics of revenant, necromancer, and warrior:


    Dervish

    • New mechanic skill F3 lets you phase into a djinn form, gaining new slot skills and an attribute boost. Both the transformation and the new slot skills require a new energy bar resource to be activated, much like the necromancer's Death Shroud. There's one transformation per attunement, each having its own slot skills and boosted attributes. Weapon skills remain unaffected by the transformation.
    • Polearm is the new weapon, with a dedicated direct damage role.
    • Wells are the new slot skills, specially designed for close-combat situations.

    Shaman

    • New mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 let you summon and control a swarm of elemental minions.
    • Longbow is the new weapon, with a dedicated condition damage role.
    • Minions are the new slot skills, designed to boost the summoner mechanic.

    Chaplain

    • New mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 contain burst skills, based on the active attunement and weapon. Successfully performed burst attacks provide an attribute boost and increase the strenght of following burst attacks.
    • Maces are the new weapon, with a dedicated healing role.
    • Mantras are the new slot skills, with additional healing options.

    This is my favorite so far, hope you liked it!

    And remember, this thread is just for fun, so feel free to post any ideas you have, even if you believe there's no way they could be happening.

  • Stop the "fire spec" "water spec" etc too septate to the respectiveF1-4 and weapon skills; on contrary add traits on utility skills. Similar to every others classes; because, sadly, it works better.

    Keep Arcanes dedicated to swap and make "Glyphs and staff and stuffs spec" "Cantrips and focus and stuffs spec" for example. Like, don't put a lesser cantrip in fire, an other in earth but the bonus effect in water, as it is now; that's ... frustrating....

  • @steki.1478 said:
    Each class is designed around different mechanics. Ele gets 4 sets of weapon skills and thief gets only one gap close. Rev gets legend swap, which works same like attunements. You can trait those to stun break, but you can also stun break with overloads or with vast amount of selectable utilities (which revs dont have, they use what they get). Other clssses don't have same possibilities since they dont have 25 skills by default. Other classes dont have conjured weapons on top of 25 skills. Other classes dont have aoe dps weapon on max range...

    It's this type of argument that makes me want to rework attunements or eliminate them altogether. It's an interesting mechanic, to be sure, but the practicalities of it are less than optimal.

    In PvE, I realistically have <= 15 skills (fire, some air, and a couple skills between conjures and utils that are useful). Water and earth attunements are traps that burn time and reduce DPS, and with a DPS spec, don't even effectively serve their intended purposes. It's wholly frustrating, then, that the answer to so many "why can't ele have X" questions is "because you have 25 skills" -- I don't want half of them.

  • Two changes i would to see (total reworks, not just re-balancing that is needed)

    1) Like Lonami.2987 is suggesting. 4 attunement swapping is what makes ele unique. But is also what holds it back.
    So maybe choosing 2 attunement out of the 4 isn't a bad solution.
    I wouldn't change the weapon skills tho, they should be unique per weapon and attunement. But skills/traits should be re-balanced accordingly.

    2) Instead of weapon swapping I would change how Conjuring works.
    When you conjure a weapon, it goes in the 2nd weapon slot (for the ele only)
    For example: Conjure Ice bow: Get an ice bow as 2nd weapon set for 30(ish) sec. So an s/d weaver would be able to weapon swap every 9 sec to a ranged weapon.
    This would make conjure weapon still unique compared with kits or spirit weapons. And would make conjure weapons way more usefull.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2018

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    I love my four attunements, but I think this could be a pretty good solution, and solve most of the problems, if not all of them. What we have now is kinda pointless most of the time. Great for aesthetics, but a burden for gameplay.

    There are no problems with the class mechanic, it works like a charm, it's great thematically (which your "solution" isn't) and I strongly disagree with your assessment of it. I fail to see how it is a "burden". It's versatility. You don't use it all the time - duh! - you use it when the situation is right and you need it. This is a big part of what makes ele feel so great. You're "solving" non-issues, introducing real ones. Like, weapon swap, really? You realize most weapons will have to be gutted for that to happen, don't you?

    Since this thread seems to be ongoing I'd have to say that I agree with you that the class mechanic isn't the real problem. Honestly, I find most redesigns to be taking bits and pieces from other professions that people like or an attempt to make the profession play more like the other professions. I get the impression from all these redesign threads that there is a segment (how big it is, is beyond me as I maintain the forums is a lousy way of determining overall game agreement on issues) of the player base that really wishes that the professions all played the same for the most part with a few thematic choices here and there that separates them. I find the professions that are the most unique in the game are the ones that are the most frequently redesigned so my general impression is that this segment really doesn't want ANet to actually explore different professions concepts, i.e. Elementalist, Engineer, and Revenant seem to be popular professions to redesign. Granted, that's what makes them so much fun, their uniqueness and the way that they actually play differently from everything else. I also tend to see that professions that are hard to master are redesigned to be easier and the professions that require micromanagement are redesigned so that they don't.

  • kitten I am very hooked on your weaver improvement.
    Mine would be lazy and boring like adding vitality and toughness a tier higher than core elementalist, but your are more true to the elite aspect in my opinion.
    And what is better it does something to the gameplay.

    Great suggestion there, that might made me more happy when playing on my weaver, and not dreaming of my guardian xD

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @ATMAvatar.5749 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    Each class is designed around different mechanics. Ele gets 4 sets of weapon skills and thief gets only one gap close. Rev gets legend swap, which works same like attunements. You can trait those to stun break, but you can also stun break with overloads or with vast amount of selectable utilities (which revs dont have, they use what they get). Other clssses don't have same possibilities since they dont have 25 skills by default. Other classes dont have conjured weapons on top of 25 skills. Other classes dont have aoe dps weapon on max range...

    It's this type of argument that makes me want to rework attunements or eliminate them altogether. It's an interesting mechanic, to be sure, but the practicalities of it are less than optimal.

    In PvE, I realistically have <= 15 skills (fire, some air, and a couple skills between conjures and utils that are useful). Water and earth attunements are traps that burn time and reduce DPS, and with a DPS spec, don't even effectively serve their intended purposes. It's wholly frustrating, then, that the answer to so many "why can't ele have X" questions is "because you have 25 skills" -- I don't want half of them.

    Traits have problems across all professions. I think the trait line model is to blame, if we had a "choose freely" or a tree model, these kind of problems wouldn't even exist.

    @Babooshka.7826 said:
    Two changes i would to see (total reworks, not just re-balancing that is needed)

    1) Like Lonami.2987 is suggesting. 4 attunement swapping is what makes ele unique. But is also what holds it back.
    So maybe choosing 2 attunement out of the 4 isn't a bad solution.
    I wouldn't change the weapon skills tho, they should be unique per weapon and attunement. But skills/traits should be re-balanced accordingly.

    2) Instead of weapon swapping I would change how Conjuring works.
    When you conjure a weapon, it goes in the 2nd weapon slot (for the ele only)
    For example: Conjure Ice bow: Get an ice bow as 2nd weapon set for 30(ish) sec. So an s/d weaver would be able to weapon swap every 9 sec to a ranged weapon.
    This would make conjure weapon still unique compared with kits or spirit weapons. And would make conjure weapons way more usefull.

    The idea is to change skills to make development and balance easier. Weapon swap would compensate that loss, while keeping attunements as an interesting mechanic, instead of just another glorified weapon skill swap.

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    I love my four attunements, but I think this could be a pretty good solution, and solve most of the problems, if not all of them. What we have now is kinda pointless most of the time. Great for aesthetics, but a burden for gameplay.

    There are no problems with the class mechanic, it works like a charm, it's great thematically (which your "solution" isn't) and I strongly disagree with your assessment of it. I fail to see how it is a "burden". It's versatility. You don't use it all the time - duh! - you use it when the situation is right and you need it. This is a big part of what makes ele feel so great. You're "solving" non-issues, introducing real ones. Like, weapon swap, really? You realize most weapons will have to be gutted for that to happen, don't you?

    I find the professions that are the most unique in the game are the ones that are the most frequently redesigned so my general impression is that this segment really doesn't want ANet to actually explore different professions concepts, i.e. Elementalist, Engineer, and Revenant seem to be popular professions to redesign. Granted, that's what makes them so much fun, their uniqueness and the way that they actually play differently from everything else.

    Well, I don't think they are really unique. Their "core mechanic" is just a glorified skill swap, for the three of them.

    @Phoenix the One.4071 said:
    kitten I am very hooked on your weaver improvement.
    Mine would be lazy and boring like adding vitality and toughness a tier higher than core elementalist, but your are more true to the elite aspect in my opinion.
    And what is better it does something to the gameplay.

    Great suggestion there, that might made me more happy when playing on my weaver, and not dreaming of my guardian xD

    Thanks, glad you liked it :D.

  • I would introduce weapon swap and double the damage. That's basically it. To get it on par with soulbeast, mirage, all the thief classes.

    OR: weaver+tempest overloads.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 19, 2019

    I'd revert literally every single cantrip nerf, the recent staff nerf, and ALL vanilla GW2 elementalist nerfs while also globally buffing every mainhand dagger attack by 20% in PvE then call it a day.

    This is actually all ele needs to be enjoyable in 100% of the games content.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.