About Perfectionist(DE trait). Can we have it proc every 20 sec? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

About Perfectionist(DE trait). Can we have it proc every 20 sec?

TwiceDead.1963TwiceDead.1963 Member ✭✭✭
edited April 27, 2018 in Thief

Can we have that automatically proc every 20-25 seconds after the first one if we don't refresh the mark? At least in PvE? Would be great.

Comments

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i would prefer it to be 1x per mark cast if you reach or are at max malice. with a cd it wouldnt trigger on quick target swaps for every 2nd opponent, if you fight low health opponents.

  • TwiceDead.1963TwiceDead.1963 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    @MUDse.7623
    ... But what if we kept that function ontop of the refresh every 20s after the first max-stack?

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2018

    marks base cd is 25 seconds. so why would you additonally need a cooldown on it, if you just would trigger it with every mark like unforgiving?

  • Urejt.5648Urejt.5648 Member ✭✭✭

    Perfectioning trait 20 s desynchronization with 17s mark cooldown has been reported many times. Anet no longer cares about deadeye balance. Rifle is the only weapon in the game that is buffed in pve and trash in pvp.

    rifle is garbage since stealth on dodge nerf
    ~~* SEASON XII - TOP 12 EU RIFLE GOD! updated

  • TwiceDead.1963TwiceDead.1963 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2018

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    marks base cd is 25 seconds. so why would you additonally need a cooldown on it, if you just would trigger it with every mark like unforgiving?

    I think you're misunderstanding something here... I'm talking about Perfectionist, not Mark. Unforgiving procs regardless, as long as you've marked a target once, so you get to stun someone and retain the 15-21% damage bonus from malice-stacks should you choose to mark the same target twice. Perfectionist only procs once every full malice stack, so unless you reset all the malice stacks you'll never see another Perfectionist proc... The problem with that, is that Marks last for 30 seconds.

    In long boss encounters where you'd like to retain that 15-21% damage bonus by re-applying mark before you lose your malice stacks, you have either a 5sec or 12sec window to reapply the mark, but if you do so you will effectively never see another Perfectionist proc because you are constantly re-applying the mark. In boss encounters that can last for minutes, you will in effect, never see more than one Perfectionist Proc, unless you deliberately wait for the mark to run out or run Mercy.

    "Why wouldn't you just do that then?" you ask.

    Because, besides the already significant 15%-21% damage bonus from Marks themselves where losing them is a significant DPS loss, Stealing/Marking itself has a ridiculous amounts of benefits on it's own. Daze, Life-steal, Damage, Boon application, Stuns, Boon Theft, holy kitten my point is that Steal/Mark is ridiculous depending on the traits you're running. The added bonus of stolen abilities is a nice bonus. WHY WOULDN'T YOU CAST MARK AS SOON AS YOU'RE ABLE? In PvE mind you, in PvP you need to exercise restraint as everything is dependent on timing...

    @Urejt.5648 said:
    Perfectioning trait 20 s desynchronization with 17s mark cooldown has been reported many times. Anet no longer cares about deadeye balance. Rifle is the only weapon in the game that is buffed in pve and trash in pvp.

    I may be the one misunderstanding your point here, but Perfectionist doesn't have a cooldown... You can literally proc two Perfectionists in quick succession by attacking your target and using stealth as soon as you're able if you're running Mercy and Revealed Malice. D/D is great for that in PvE. Only the first two though, because after that you're dependant on the Mercy cooldown if you want another Perfectionist proc, or you have to deliberately wait till you lose all your malice stacks.

    This isn't really feasible in PvP though.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 29, 2018

    @TwiceDead.1963 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    marks base cd is 25 seconds. so why would you additonally need a cooldown on it, if you just would trigger it with every mark like unforgiving?

    I think you're misunderstanding something here... I'm talking about Perfectionist, not Mark. Unforgiving procs regardless, as long as you've marked a target once, so you get to stun someone and retain the 15-21% damage bonus from malice-stacks should you choose to mark the same target twice. Perfectionist only procs once every full malice stack, so unless you reset all the malice stacks you'll never see another Perfectionist proc... The problem with that, is that Marks last for 30 seconds.

    In long boss encounters where you'd like to retain that 15-21% damage bonus by re-applying mark before you lose your malice stacks, you have either a 5sec or 12sec window to reapply the mark, but if you do so you will effectively never see another Perfectionist proc because you are constantly re-applying the mark. In boss encounters that can last for minutes, you will in effect, never see more than one Perfectionist Proc, unless you deliberately wait for the mark to run out or run Mercy.

    "Why wouldn't you just do that then?" you ask.

    Because, besides the already significant 15%-21% damage bonus from Marks themselves where losing them is a significant DPS loss, Stealing/Marking itself has a ridiculous amounts of benefits on it's own. Daze, Life-steal, Damage, Boon application, Stuns, Boon Theft, holy kitten my point is that Steal/Mark is ridiculous depending on the traits you're running. The added bonus of stolen abilities is a nice bonus. WHY WOULDN'T YOU CAST MARK AS SOON AS YOU'RE ABLE? In PvE mind you, in PvP you need to exercise restraint as everything is dependent on timing...

    no you dont understand. i know how perfectionist works currently.
    you proposed a cooldown and that is should proc whenerver you are at maximum malice, not when you reach it. so you would have it every 20s during a boss encounter.
    i proposed to make perfectionist proc like unforgiving once per mark, but when you are at maximum malice. this way you still get multiple perfectionist procs during a long encounter without losing malice, at a rate of once per 17,5 -25s. this way perfectionist would also profit from renewing gaze as its cooldown is tied to mark.

  • Urejt.5648Urejt.5648 Member ✭✭✭

    I see now, i misread the name of trait. You have good point about "perfectioninst"

    rifle is garbage since stealth on dodge nerf
    ~~* SEASON XII - TOP 12 EU RIFLE GOD! updated

  • TwiceDead.1963TwiceDead.1963 Member ✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @TwiceDead.1963 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    marks base cd is 25 seconds. so why would you additonally need a cooldown on it, if you just would trigger it with every mark like unforgiving?

    I think you're misunderstanding something here... I'm talking about Perfectionist, not Mark. Unforgiving procs regardless, as long as you've marked a target once, so you get to stun someone and retain the 15-21% damage bonus from malice-stacks should you choose to mark the same target twice. Perfectionist only procs once every full malice stack, so unless you reset all the malice stacks you'll never see another Perfectionist proc... The problem with that, is that Marks last for 30 seconds.

    In long boss encounters where you'd like to retain that 15-21% damage bonus by re-applying mark before you lose your malice stacks, you have either a 5sec or 12sec window to reapply the mark, but if you do so you will effectively never see another Perfectionist proc because you are constantly re-applying the mark. In boss encounters that can last for minutes, you will in effect, never see more than one Perfectionist Proc, unless you deliberately wait for the mark to run out or run Mercy.

    "Why wouldn't you just do that then?" you ask.

    Because, besides the already significant 15%-21% damage bonus from Marks themselves where losing them is a significant DPS loss, Stealing/Marking itself has a ridiculous amounts of benefits on it's own. Daze, Life-steal, Damage, Boon application, Stuns, Boon Theft, holy kitten my point is that Steal/Mark is ridiculous depending on the traits you're running. The added bonus of stolen abilities is a nice bonus. WHY WOULDN'T YOU CAST MARK AS SOON AS YOU'RE ABLE? In PvE mind you, in PvP you need to exercise restraint as everything is dependent on timing...

    no you dont understand. i know how perfectionist works currently.
    you proposed a cooldown and that is should proc whenerver you are at maximum malice, not when you reach it. so you would have it every 20s during a boss encounter.
    i proposed to make perfectionist proc like unforgiving once per mark, but when you are at maximum malice. this way you still get multiple perfectionist procs during a long encounter without losing malice, at a rate of once per 17,5 -25s. this way perfectionist would also profit from renewing gaze as its cooldown is tied to mark.

    That's what I've been suggesting though, that we retain the function of Perfectionist as is, but it also procs every 20s after the first malice stack. I'm not suggesting an internal cooldown be added to perfectionist.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    how do you think this might be coded if it should proc every 20 seconds without a cooldown?
    mark cooldown howerver is already 17,5-25 seconds and can be reduced with renweing gaze, swindlers equilibrium and mercy. giving one proc per cast can be coded easily similar to unfogiving by granting you a special 'perfectionist' effect that will be used when reaching max malice and it will be granted on every cast of mark.

    if you want it proc 20s after the first mark it is already tied to mark cooldown, what further advantage to you gain not to grant perfectionist for each mark but for every 20 seconds? the only thing i can think of is reaching perfectionist after ~10s cause you are attacking then another proc after 20s and target switch to gain again 2 procs. that is the only scenario where it is an advantage not to tie it to mark cast and you would need fights that last about 20 seconds. for long encounters getting 1 proc per mark would have the same effect as you will remark on CD anyway and you could get a double proc for a burst if you use swindlers equilibrium.

  • TwiceDead.1963TwiceDead.1963 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 29, 2018

    So you're saying... You want Perfectionist to proc every time you cast mark as long as you're retaining your malice stack...?
    At least I think that's what you're saying, I must admit I am having some troubles interpreting your post.

    Yeah, that works too, definitely.

    But what does Renewing Gaze have to do with this? We're not talking about killing Trash Mobs, as Perfectionist is unlikely to proc before you kill those, but for boss encounters. On those, it won't proc before the boss is dead, at which point you start the process on a different target if there is one. Are you thinking about the 3 sec Regen? Perfectionist already gives you 10 seconds. The entire point is to avoid losing your malice stacks, while still being able to proc Perfectionist for long encounters at a reasonable rate (every 17 or 25 sec), renewing gaze doesn't come into play on fights where there's only 1 target.

    Using Mercy is cancelling your stack as well, so that doesn't count for this discussion. It's the only method we're already using to proc two Perfectionists in quick succession. You can proc two Perfectionists in around 10-12 seconds on a perfect rotation(lol). Maybe sooner if you use Shadow Meld.

    Swindler's Equilibrium has potential though.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i just think if anet is going to implement what you asked they will most probably will just give perfectionist a cd and change the requirement from 'when reaching max malice' to 'while at max malice'.
    this would then lead to less perfectionist procs when fighting trashmobs as it still might be on cd from the previous one. if you give one perfectionist per mark tho when fighting trash mobs you will still have the chance to get 1 proc per target because of renewing gaze's cooldown reset.
    i know that your suggestion is mainly for long encounters but it might also affect short ones depending on the way anet might put it ingame. thats why i made a suggestion that will give you the procs at a reasonable rate without the requirement of a cooldown for the trait.

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    if you want it proc 20s after the first mark it is already tied to mark cooldown, what further advantage to you gain not to grant perfectionist for each mark but for every 20 seconds?

    One thing I can think of is casting time. Each cast of DE Mark reduces overall DPS.

    The 20s procs can function just like the Guardian's Virtue of Courage where Aegis is refreshed every 40s - Perfectionist's boons will then be refreshed the same way but half the time.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2018

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    if you want it proc 20s after the first mark it is already tied to mark cooldown, what further advantage to you gain not to grant perfectionist for each mark but for every 20 seconds?

    One thing I can think of is casting time. Each cast of DE Mark reduces overall DPS.

    The 20s procs can function just like the Guardian's Virtue of Courage where Aegis is refreshed every 40s - Perfectionist's boons will then be refreshed the same way but half the time.

    sure each cast is a DPS loss, but you already need to recast it or you lose malice or do you also want an infinite mark with it?
    but for all i care they can aswell remove the cast time on mark, wich IMO would also help for alot more builds in spvp/wvw, as you can currently use steal whie under preassure or even while under CC effects, but cant use mark.

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    if you want it proc 20s after the first mark it is already tied to mark cooldown, what further advantage to you gain not to grant perfectionist for each mark but for every 20 seconds?

    One thing I can think of is casting time. Each cast of DE Mark reduces overall DPS.

    The 20s procs can function just like the Guardian's Virtue of Courage where Aegis is refreshed every 40s - Perfectionist's boons will then be refreshed the same way but half the time.

    sure each cast is a DPS loss, but you already need to recast it or you lose malice or do you also want an infinite mark with it?

    I was under the impression that it is part of the refresh otherwise it's pointless. It refreshes the mark so it doesn't fall off unless reapplied on a different target.

    but for all i care they can aswell remove the cast time on mark, wich IMO would also help for alot more builds in spvp/wvw, as you can currently use steal whie under preassure or even while under CC effects, but cant use mark.

    DE Mark shouldn't have any casting time anyway. The casting time defeats the purpose of the daze in Sleight of Hand to use as an interrupt. DE Mark should be better than Steal since Steal comes with an instant shadowstep. The Mark should be instant cast and not fall off as a compensation for not having a shadowstep.

    IMO, DE Mark should ea passive and auto-applied to my target after hitting them 3 times. This way it doesn't ruin the Thief rhythm.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

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