"A Big, EMPTY Map" — Guild Wars 2 Forums

"A Big, EMPTY Map"

I'm just wondering, how much of a burden would it be on the creative team to create a big, but empty map?

By that I just mean a map that takes up a large chunk of Tyria's real estate, but that isn't as crammed full of little details as we've come to expect from a GW2 map. I get that making a map on the scale of the Desolation would take a lot of work, which is why they tend to make slightly smaller maps more often, but would it be possible to make a map that is mostly just "not much going on here?"

Maybe take a place like the empty gap between Ebonhawk and the Highlands. Have little communities and activities that happen right along the top and bottom edges of the map, enough to entertain people, but have most of the middle of the map just be "rocks and trees," placed perhaps not as painstakingly as some of the other maps, maybe scatter some generic mobs for flavor, but with no particular reason to fight them. All the "content" would cluster in the relatively small communities on the edges, but it would give the world more "depth" to still connect these routes physically, even if they can't justify building an entire story around that region. The "empty" area in the middle would at minim be a fun place to ride or fly through.

Again, if this would still take a ton of work, then fine, not worth pursuing, but if it's something that could be knocked together relatively easily using spare parts, it's better than leaving some of these areas off the map entirely.

(and also, just as an aside, I'm still hoping for a desert map that that is like 80-90% "nothing but sand dunes," with only a few islands of actual rock and life. I wanted that from the PoF expansion, but the closest we got was some tiny dune regions in Oasis and Riverlands.)

Comments

  • Ohoni.6057Ohoni.6057 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    Isn't this just PoF?

    I find the PoF maps pretty heavy on content. Pretty much anywhere you go there are things to do there. They are slightly stretched out, since you can move faster on mounts, but you're never more than a few hundred feet from an active heart or mini-dungeon or something else interesting to do. This would be more talking about a literal "content gap" in the middle of a map, hopefully to create less of a development burden.

  • Ohoni.6057Ohoni.6057 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Korvous.6340 said:
    I actually quite like the idea of a large, empty map that takes a while to traverse through before you see signs of civilisation again as it kind of takes me back to the days of playing dungeon siege... But frankly it doesn't work with gw2 and the inherent use of waypoints. People would travel through it once and then just forever skip it. It would simply become a space devoid of players and a waste of dev time.

    I think the closes thing to it that you'll find is drytop as opposed to anything in PoF, although of course mounts trivialize it somewhat.

    Well, that's why I say, if it would take a lot of dev time to craft, then probably not worth it, but I don't like to assume. I was just thinking that they have all of these art assets around, it might not be that hard to bodge together a fairly generic landscape. They could even use it as a test map (which various datamined projects have indicated they tend to do anyway from time to time).

    I don't think it would be a place frequently traveled (although small content areas near the entrances could attract people to stop by), but it would be nice to know it's there, just for geographical continuity. I just mean it as a method to close up certain gaps in the landscape that might otherwise be "too boring" to make a big deal of them.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:
    Put a lot of synthesizer nodes everywhere and flag it a PvP zone!!!

    Open world guild vs. guild. Basically, an entire open world zone that is free-for-all PvP and only players who are representing the same guild are flagged as friendly! Objectives? Probably/Maybe? But no siege combat. Throw in synthesizer nodes and other ways to make it attractive to solo/small group play as well. And of course objectives for the guild level. Never to the point of WvW, but some reason for a guild to try and control the map.

    I know this concept is fraught with issues all around, but I think that it would be a lot of fun if we could make it work!

  • czerwoni.9563czerwoni.9563 Member ✭✭✭

    under the silver wastes in the caverns its large and empty

    you say mesmer i say shadow sorcerer

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ohoni.6057 said:

    ~snip~

    I don't think it would be a place frequently traveled (although small content areas near the entrances could attract people to stop by), but it would be nice to know it's there, just for geographical continuity. I just mean it as a method to close up certain gaps in the landscape that might otherwise be "too boring" to make a big deal of them.

    I think eventually, at some point in time you'll find those gaps will end up getting filled in one way or another, whether it's by maps like the one you describe or full fledged LW/Expac maps only time will tell(with perhaps the exception being the Dominion of Wind).

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • You can cap Windswept Haven with a new guild and have a decently-sized open map without any content.
    But why would any studio spend a single minute of time considering producing a map that has such a low density of fun things to do?

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • SlateSloan.3654SlateSloan.3654 Member ✭✭✭

    a danger zone , lootable pvp only trees, meadows and loooooot

  • Ohoni.6057Ohoni.6057 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:
    Since they have this whole zones take place in their own timespan thing going on this really wouldnt do much. Also, why make a large empty map in locations that can be possibly used in the future.

    I dont know how much time it would take, but even then, it seems like wasted effort.

    Well, there's plenty of empty map to work with, like 10-20 times the size of the existing world, and that's only the known territory, so it's not like they would run out of room to do new stuff. It's up to them to decide how much effort it would be worth, I'm just putting it out there that it's something that would interest me.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2018

    It is prob not just the work but the pointlessness of doing it. Maps should be well stocked with content. There is already too much wasted map space in some parts of pof as it is, I'm not sure what reason they would have to create a near content less map instead of one with, given it would be ignored by most people

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yea I’d like something like this, take some part of the crystal desert that’s just sand and environment on and on, they could do a mission where your character gets lost in endless sand dunes. At the end they reflect on something or make a discovery or something hidden far away from the world

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The issue is if maps are not rewarding, even with contents, people will eventually stop doing it. However, if you make it rewarding, you might end up obsoleting the previous map that provide the same reward.

    Now, for the first case, a non-rewarding map with large content will later on become nothing but a burden to new players because there just isn't enough new players to do them.

    For the second case, the old map would then become less populated thus even lesser chance of completing the contents.

    The main thing is as maps expand, the population spread out further and this thin out every map's population and reduce every single map's capability to complete contents. So. I guess it is only logical choice for anet not to put too much contents.

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  • Vova.2640Vova.2640 Member ✭✭✭

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:
    Put a lot of synthesizer nodes everywhere and flag it a PvP zone!!!

    Oh god yes.
    I do enjoy me an open world pvp system!

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    that's 90% of GW2, allot of stuff but nothing in it....

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What benefit does this provide to the game? By your own request, the map would have almost zero content in it, and the map itself could even be proceduraly generated (ie, its boring, everything is pretty much the same with just some random noise thrown in), so there isn't even anything to do there. What benefit does that provide, to anyone?

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    What benefit does this provide to the game? By your own request, the map would have almost zero content in it, and the map itself could even be proceduraly generated (ie, its boring, everything is pretty much the same with just some random noise thrown in), so there isn't even anything to do there. What benefit does that provide, to anyone?

    Mapping the world faster I guess?

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
  • OrbitalButt.5708OrbitalButt.5708 Member ✭✭✭

    Sounds like a stupendous waste of time

  • Ohoni.6057Ohoni.6057 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    The issue is if maps are not rewarding, even with contents, people will eventually stop doing it.

    Well, my point I guess is that this is a map where people would "stop doing it," pretty quickly, but that's ok. I mean they put out a lot of maps that are intended to be replayed constantly, and they should continue to do that, definitely. But this would be one that's just intended to add a little depth to the world at a lowered development cost.

    It would basically have a lot less work to it, definitely not "no work," but like if the average new map has maybe 3-5 heart quests, 1-2 meta events and a couple dozen smaller ones, all sorts of hidden caves, small communities, NPCs with dialog, etc., this map would have very little of that, Maybe 1 heart quest, or none at all. No meta events, maybe no events at all. no unique mobs or artwork, just repurposed assets from the area around it. No overly complex terrain, just pull mountains and trees out of the draw and slap them around. It may have 1-2 small communities near the edges, but nothing overly complicated there either. They could add NPCs and situations for Current Events or something, but don't have to.

    I really love the care and attention that ANet puts into most of their maps, and look forward to the next of those, but that wouldn't be the point of something like this, this would just be to give better geographical continuity to the world by connecting the dots, without breaking the bank by requiring the same level of detail that a "core" map has to cover.

    Again, if it'd be way too much work, I agree it wouldn't be worth it, and this shouldn't take the place of a full LW map release, I just have a feeling this is something they could knock together on a budget relative to their other priorities as more of a "Current Events" scale project.

    Now, for the first case, a non-rewarding map with large content will later on become nothing but a burden to new players because there just isn't enough new players to do them.

    And definitely, anything that would "need to be done" on that map, if anything at all, it should be soloable and also focused to specific areas, because yeah, finding other players there would be inconsistent.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ohoni.6057 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    The issue is if maps are not rewarding, even with contents, people will eventually stop doing it.

    Well, my point I guess is that this is a map where people would "stop doing it," pretty quickly, but that's ok. I mean they put out a lot of maps that are intended to be replayed constantly, and they should continue to do that, definitely. But this would be one that's just intended to add a little depth to the world at a lowered development cost.

    It would basically have a lot less work to it, definitely not "no work," but like if the average new map has maybe 3-5 heart quests, 1-2 meta events and a couple dozen smaller ones, all sorts of hidden caves, small communities, NPCs with dialog, etc., this map would have very little of that, Maybe 1 heart quest, or none at all. No meta events, maybe no events at all. no unique mobs or artwork, just repurposed assets from the area around it. No overly complex terrain, just pull mountains and trees out of the draw and slap them around. It may have 1-2 small communities near the edges, but nothing overly complicated there either. They could add NPCs and situations for Current Events or something, but don't have to.

    I really love the care and attention that ANet puts into most of their maps, and look forward to the next of those, but that wouldn't be the point of something like this, this would just be to give better geographical continuity to the world by connecting the dots, without breaking the bank by requiring the same level of detail that a "core" map has to cover.

    Again, if it'd be way too much work, I agree it wouldn't be worth it, and this shouldn't take the place of a full LW map release, I just have a feeling this is something they could knock together on a budget relative to their other priorities as more of a "Current Events" scale project.

    Now, for the first case, a non-rewarding map with large content will later on become nothing but a burden to new players because there just isn't enough new players to do them.

    And definitely, anything that would "need to be done" on that map, if anything at all, it should be soloable and also focused to specific areas, because yeah, finding other players there would be inconsistent.

    I ask you again, what is the point of such a map? No content, no new mobs, no new artwork, no hearts. No reason to visit it. So what is the point of it? There is none.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • IndigoSundown.5419IndigoSundown.5419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if a modified version of what Ohoni suggests might be used to introduce more sandbox elements to GW2.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • @OriOri.8724 said:

    @Ohoni.6057 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    The issue is if maps are not rewarding, even with contents, people will eventually stop doing it.

    Well, my point I guess is that this is a map where people would "stop doing it," pretty quickly, but that's ok. I mean they put out a lot of maps that are intended to be replayed constantly, and they should continue to do that, definitely. But this would be one that's just intended to add a little depth to the world at a lowered development cost.

    It would basically have a lot less work to it, definitely not "no work," but like if the average new map has maybe 3-5 heart quests, 1-2 meta events and a couple dozen smaller ones, all sorts of hidden caves, small communities, NPCs with dialog, etc., this map would have very little of that, Maybe 1 heart quest, or none at all. No meta events, maybe no events at all. no unique mobs or artwork, just repurposed assets from the area around it. No overly complex terrain, just pull mountains and trees out of the draw and slap them around. It may have 1-2 small communities near the edges, but nothing overly complicated there either. They could add NPCs and situations for Current Events or something, but don't have to.

    I really love the care and attention that ANet puts into most of their maps, and look forward to the next of those, but that wouldn't be the point of something like this, this would just be to give better geographical continuity to the world by connecting the dots, without breaking the bank by requiring the same level of detail that a "core" map has to cover.

    Again, if it'd be way too much work, I agree it wouldn't be worth it, and this shouldn't take the place of a full LW map release, I just have a feeling this is something they could knock together on a budget relative to their other priorities as more of a "Current Events" scale project.

    Now, for the first case, a non-rewarding map with large content will later on become nothing but a burden to new players because there just isn't enough new players to do them.

    And definitely, anything that would "need to be done" on that map, if anything at all, it should be soloable and also focused to specific areas, because yeah, finding other players there would be inconsistent.

    I ask you again, what is the point of such a map? No content, no new mobs, no new artwork, no hearts. No reason to visit it. So what is the point of it? There is none.

    I can see it used for simply filling out the world. Make landmass connection between currently unconnected areas, like Scavenger's Causeway.

  • Ohoni.6057Ohoni.6057 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @Ohoni.6057 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    The issue is if maps are not rewarding, even with contents, people will eventually stop doing it.

    Well, my point I guess is that this is a map where people would "stop doing it," pretty quickly, but that's ok. I mean they put out a lot of maps that are intended to be replayed constantly, and they should continue to do that, definitely. But this would be one that's just intended to add a little depth to the world at a lowered development cost.

    It would basically have a lot less work to it, definitely not "no work," but like if the average new map has maybe 3-5 heart quests, 1-2 meta events and a couple dozen smaller ones, all sorts of hidden caves, small communities, NPCs with dialog, etc., this map would have very little of that, Maybe 1 heart quest, or none at all. No meta events, maybe no events at all. no unique mobs or artwork, just repurposed assets from the area around it. No overly complex terrain, just pull mountains and trees out of the draw and slap them around. It may have 1-2 small communities near the edges, but nothing overly complicated there either. They could add NPCs and situations for Current Events or something, but don't have to.

    I really love the care and attention that ANet puts into most of their maps, and look forward to the next of those, but that wouldn't be the point of something like this, this would just be to give better geographical continuity to the world by connecting the dots, without breaking the bank by requiring the same level of detail that a "core" map has to cover.

    Again, if it'd be way too much work, I agree it wouldn't be worth it, and this shouldn't take the place of a full LW map release, I just have a feeling this is something they could knock together on a budget relative to their other priorities as more of a "Current Events" scale project.

    Now, for the first case, a non-rewarding map with large content will later on become nothing but a burden to new players because there just isn't enough new players to do them.

    And definitely, anything that would "need to be done" on that map, if anything at all, it should be soloable and also focused to specific areas, because yeah, finding other players there would be inconsistent.

    I ask you again, what is the point of such a map? No content, no new mobs, no new artwork, no hearts. No reason to visit it. So what is the point of it? There is none.

    Geographical continuity. It's to have contiguous land mass between points A and B. Players have been wanting to pass through the gates in Ebon Hawk since launch, and with Highlands it's implied that the connecting map might not be made. I'm just saying, if they have no idea how to make a map "worth it" as a massive, highly detailed, "chock full of adventure" style map, I would really prefer to see a "nothing" map than no map at all. I take it you disagree, but that's ok.

  • FrizzFreston.5290FrizzFreston.5290 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2018

    @Ohoni.6057 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @Ohoni.6057 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    The issue is if maps are not rewarding, even with contents, people will eventually stop doing it.

    Well, my point I guess is that this is a map where people would "stop doing it," pretty quickly, but that's ok. I mean they put out a lot of maps that are intended to be replayed constantly, and they should continue to do that, definitely. But this would be one that's just intended to add a little depth to the world at a lowered development cost.

    It would basically have a lot less work to it, definitely not "no work," but like if the average new map has maybe 3-5 heart quests, 1-2 meta events and a couple dozen smaller ones, all sorts of hidden caves, small communities, NPCs with dialog, etc., this map would have very little of that, Maybe 1 heart quest, or none at all. No meta events, maybe no events at all. no unique mobs or artwork, just repurposed assets from the area around it. No overly complex terrain, just pull mountains and trees out of the draw and slap them around. It may have 1-2 small communities near the edges, but nothing overly complicated there either. They could add NPCs and situations for Current Events or something, but don't have to.

    I really love the care and attention that ANet puts into most of their maps, and look forward to the next of those, but that wouldn't be the point of something like this, this would just be to give better geographical continuity to the world by connecting the dots, without breaking the bank by requiring the same level of detail that a "core" map has to cover.

    Again, if it'd be way too much work, I agree it wouldn't be worth it, and this shouldn't take the place of a full LW map release, I just have a feeling this is something they could knock together on a budget relative to their other priorities as more of a "Current Events" scale project.

    Now, for the first case, a non-rewarding map with large content will later on become nothing but a burden to new players because there just isn't enough new players to do them.

    And definitely, anything that would "need to be done" on that map, if anything at all, it should be soloable and also focused to specific areas, because yeah, finding other players there would be inconsistent.

    I ask you again, what is the point of such a map? No content, no new mobs, no new artwork, no hearts. No reason to visit it. So what is the point of it? There is none.

    Geographical continuity. It's to have contiguous land mass between points A and B. Players have been wanting to pass through the gates in Ebon Hawk since launch, and with Highlands it's implied that the connecting map might not be made. I'm just saying, if they have no idea how to make a map "worth it" as a massive, highly detailed, "chock full of adventure" style map, I would really prefer to see a "nothing" map than no map at all. I take it you disagree, but that's ok.

    Geographical continuity won't be improved by placing empty maps at all. It would be ignored if anything. Just because there's space there physically doesn't mean there's continuity.

    Some things are also best left to the imagination.

  • Ohoni.6057Ohoni.6057 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:
    Geographical continuity won't be improved by placing empty maps at all. It would be ignored if anything. Just because there's space there physically doesn't mean there's continuity.

    Tell that to the Midwest.

    Badumbum, just kidding guys.

    Obviously it wouldn't be like a 2d plane or anything, it would be landscape, just not terribly original or content-rich landscape. The point is, you could physically travel from A to B, there would be natural terrain along the way, it just turns out that nobody bothered to build any fancy structures there, no labs, no settlements, no pirate caves, it's just rocks and trees, like most of the real world.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ohoni.6057 said:
    I'm just wondering, how much of a burden would it be on the creative team to create a big, but empty map?

    By that I just mean a map that takes up a large chunk of Tyria's real estate, but that isn't as crammed full of little details as we've come to expect from a GW2 map. I get that making a map on the scale of the Desolation would take a lot of work, which is why they tend to make slightly smaller maps more often, but would it be possible to make a map that is mostly just "not much going on here?"

    Maybe take a place like the empty gap between Ebonhawk and the Highlands. Have little communities and activities that happen right along the top and bottom edges of the map, enough to entertain people, but have most of the middle of the map just be "rocks and trees," placed perhaps not as painstakingly as some of the other maps, maybe scatter some generic mobs for flavor, but with no particular reason to fight them. All the "content" would cluster in the relatively small communities on the edges, but it would give the world more "depth" to still connect these routes physically, even if they can't justify building an entire story around that region. The "empty" area in the middle would at minim be a fun place to ride or fly through.

    Again, if this would still take a ton of work, then fine, not worth pursuing, but if it's something that could be knocked together relatively easily using spare parts, it's better than leaving some of these areas off the map entirely.

    (and also, just as an aside, I'm still hoping for a desert map that that is like 80-90% "nothing but sand dunes," with only a few islands of actual rock and life. I wanted that from the PoF expansion, but the closest we got was some tiny dune regions in Oasis and Riverlands.)

    It's not the work that's the problem. It's the wasted potential. The empty parts of the map hold some promise that one day you can go there and find something interesting. Deliberately creating a dull map that you have zero incentive to ever go visit is... pointless.

  • This suggestion seems similar to The Arid Sea in Guild Wars 1. It's not bigger than the other maps, but only one quest leads there (although quite an important one), and otherwise there's hardly anything there - even the enemies are pretty sparse. Of course, most players probably only went there once, for that quest - or maybe twice if they wanted to vanquish it and/or get 100% exploration.

  • Ohoni.6057Ohoni.6057 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Ohoni.6057 said:
    I'm just wondering, how much of a burden would it be on the creative team to create a big, but empty map?

    By that I just mean a map that takes up a large chunk of Tyria's real estate, but that isn't as crammed full of little details as we've come to expect from a GW2 map. I get that making a map on the scale of the Desolation would take a lot of work, which is why they tend to make slightly smaller maps more often, but would it be possible to make a map that is mostly just "not much going on here?"

    Maybe take a place like the empty gap between Ebonhawk and the Highlands. Have little communities and activities that happen right along the top and bottom edges of the map, enough to entertain people, but have most of the middle of the map just be "rocks and trees," placed perhaps not as painstakingly as some of the other maps, maybe scatter some generic mobs for flavor, but with no particular reason to fight them. All the "content" would cluster in the relatively small communities on the edges, but it would give the world more "depth" to still connect these routes physically, even if they can't justify building an entire story around that region. The "empty" area in the middle would at minim be a fun place to ride or fly through.

    Again, if this would still take a ton of work, then fine, not worth pursuing, but if it's something that could be knocked together relatively easily using spare parts, it's better than leaving some of these areas off the map entirely.

    (and also, just as an aside, I'm still hoping for a desert map that that is like 80-90% "nothing but sand dunes," with only a few islands of actual rock and life. I wanted that from the PoF expansion, but the closest we got was some tiny dune regions in Oasis and Riverlands.)

    It's not the work that's the problem. It's the wasted potential. The empty parts of the map hold some promise that one day you can go there and find something interesting. Deliberately creating a dull map that you have zero incentive to ever go visit is... pointless.

    But again, they have a TON of space to work with. If you took the entire space of known Tyria, the entire mapped part in GW2 is basically like central Europe and a bit of the Middle East, with all of Scandinavia, Asia, Africa, and Australia out there left to find. They could make the mapped space about ten times its current size, and still have room for more, not even including the potential of the mists and alternate realms. The "opportunity lost" in creating a relatively empty map is a minor one at best. I mean, if they have a really great idea of what to do in a given area, then they should do that, but if not, they can just put their cool ideas elsewhere and we'd all be fine. They could even make changes to the "empty" map at a later date, like with Kessex Hills, either causing an event to drastically alter the terrain, or just open up previously undiscovered areas, like caves leading into massive underground ruins. Nothing would be lost there.

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ohoni.6057 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Ohoni.6057 said:
    I'm just wondering, how much of a burden would it be on the creative team to create a big, but empty map?

    By that I just mean a map that takes up a large chunk of Tyria's real estate, but that isn't as crammed full of little details as we've come to expect from a GW2 map. I get that making a map on the scale of the Desolation would take a lot of work, which is why they tend to make slightly smaller maps more often, but would it be possible to make a map that is mostly just "not much going on here?"

    Maybe take a place like the empty gap between Ebonhawk and the Highlands. Have little communities and activities that happen right along the top and bottom edges of the map, enough to entertain people, but have most of the middle of the map just be "rocks and trees," placed perhaps not as painstakingly as some of the other maps, maybe scatter some generic mobs for flavor, but with no particular reason to fight them. All the "content" would cluster in the relatively small communities on the edges, but it would give the world more "depth" to still connect these routes physically, even if they can't justify building an entire story around that region. The "empty" area in the middle would at minim be a fun place to ride or fly through.

    Again, if this would still take a ton of work, then fine, not worth pursuing, but if it's something that could be knocked together relatively easily using spare parts, it's better than leaving some of these areas off the map entirely.

    (and also, just as an aside, I'm still hoping for a desert map that that is like 80-90% "nothing but sand dunes," with only a few islands of actual rock and life. I wanted that from the PoF expansion, but the closest we got was some tiny dune regions in Oasis and Riverlands.)

    It's not the work that's the problem. It's the wasted potential. The empty parts of the map hold some promise that one day you can go there and find something interesting. Deliberately creating a dull map that you have zero incentive to ever go visit is... pointless.

    But again, they have a TON of space to work with. If you took the entire space of known Tyria, the entire mapped part in GW2 is basically like central Europe and a bit of the Middle East, with all of Scandinavia, Asia, Africa, and Australia out there left to find. They could make the mapped space about ten times its current size, and still have room for more, not even including the potential of the mists and alternate realms. The "opportunity lost" in creating a relatively empty map is a minor one at best. I mean, if they have a really great idea of what to do in a given area, then they should do that, but if not, they can just put their cool ideas elsewhere and we'd all be fine. They could even make changes to the "empty" map at a later date, like with Kessex Hills, either causing an event to drastically alter the terrain, or just open up previously undiscovered areas, like caves leading into massive underground ruins. Nothing would be lost there.

    But they won't do that. They stated (around The Head of the Snake) that maps are frozen in time and changes won't happen anymore (Current Events aside). So you have lost development ressources that could have been used for actual content.

  • PyrateSilly.4710PyrateSilly.4710 Member ✭✭✭

    You are missing the other thing besides a wide open map with not much on it that they are asking for -- a completely open PvP zone. Thou there is the zone in the Guild Halls to do PvP, there is the PvP lobby and then of course WvW to do PvP in but of course there are still some that want a PvE map that has open PvP

  • GenghisKhan.7842GenghisKhan.7842 Member ✭✭✭

    Sorry but it's just a bad idea, wasting even just 10 minutes for something that is totally useless

  • Loosmaster.8263Loosmaster.8263 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @PyrateSilly.4710 said:
    You are missing the other thing besides a wide open map with not much on it that they are asking for -- a completely open PvP zone. Thou there is the zone in the Guild Halls to do PvP, there is the PvP lobby and then of course WvW to do PvP in but of course there are still some that want a PvE map that has open PvP

    And all of those you mentioned have their limitations. OWPvP, everyone a combatant except if repping the same guild. No distractions like structures, seige, unlevel terrain.

    Just synthesizer nodes(a lot) for enticement for farming the map. No specific ones to effect the market.

    Fàther - Create a mount then kill it until it's more useless than PvE. "Smart"
    Tactical Killers
    Server(DR)

  • Willhart.8230Willhart.8230 Member ✭✭

    I think it'd be lovely to see the small holes in the current map filled somehow just to make it look neat and complete, but I also would not rush it with low quality work. How the world feels and connects is very important.

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭

    An "empty" map would only be fun if the devs take the time to make it interesting to traverse trough it. This means creating routes, obstacles and places to pause, and making sure there aren't graphic traps, inescapable points or glitches. Also to look decent it would need some variety in the terrain, and a minimum aesthetic polishing for the resting spots...
    In short, making an "empty" map would still be A LOT of work for the devs, so it would be more cost-efficient a not empty map anyway.

  • Ohoni.6057Ohoni.6057 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Miellyn.6847 said:
    But they won't do that. They stated (around The Head of the Snake) that maps are frozen in time and changes won't happen anymore (Current Events aside). So you have lost development ressources that could have been used for actual content.

    You say that as if they are restricted by that announcement. Obviously they are not. They stated their intention that they would not significantly alter existing maps anymore, which is fine, but if ever they decided that it would be an interesting design choice to do so, they obviously could. So again, they are in no way prevented from making the sort of changes I described if they felt like it.

    And again, I proposed this because I felt that it could be accomplished with relatively little development resources for the scope of this project, and agree that it would not be worth investing significant resources in producing, so if that's the dilemma, I agree it would not be worth it. It should not come at the cost of significant content, it should only come in addition to significant content.

    @PyrateSilly.4710 said:
    You are missing the other thing besides a wide open map with not much on it that they are asking for -- a completely open PvP zone. Thou there is the zone in the Guild Halls to do PvP, there is the PvP lobby and then of course WvW to do PvP in but of course there are still some that want a PvE map that has open PvP

    No, this is not an open world PvP game.

    @Ardid.7203 said:
    An "empty" map would only be fun if the devs take the time to make it interesting to traverse trough it. This means creating routes, obstacles and places to pause, and making sure there aren't graphic traps, inescapable points or glitches. Also to look decent it would need some variety in the terrain, and a minimum aesthetic polishing for the resting spots...
    In short, making an "empty" map would still be A LOT of work for the devs, so it would be more cost-efficient a not empty map anyway.

    While I think that they would not need to put way too much effort into the terrain, I think they could avoid most "broken spots" by just using their existing art assets to build the terrain. Broken spots are more likely to occur when they try to get fancy by layering the terrain in complex shapes. Yes, this takes work, but it would take a lot less work than a fully fleshed out map. It would have few, if any event team members working on it, no new art assets to make, it could basically be a project for one or two devs, perhaps new hires that are learning the toolkit and earning their wings for a more major expansion.

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ohoni.6057 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:
    But they won't do that. They stated (around The Head of the Snake) that maps are frozen in time and changes won't happen anymore (Current Events aside). So you have lost development ressources that could have been used for actual content.

    You say that as if they are restricted by that announcement. Obviously they are not. They stated their intention that they would not significantly alter existing maps anymore, which is fine, but if ever they decided that it would be an interesting design choice to do so, they obviously could. So again, they are in no way prevented from making the sort of changes I described if they felt like it.

    And again, I proposed this because I felt that it could be accomplished with relatively little development resources for the scope of this project, and agree that it would not be worth investing significant resources in producing, so if that's the dilemma, I agree it would not be worth it. It should not come at the cost of significant content, it should only come in addition to significant content.

    Why should they create a map completely against their own design standards?
    Also it already happened in LS1 and many people didn't like it. The community already voted on that one. If you miss changes you will never experience them. If you just add stuff they can go with the current model.

  • Ohoni.6057Ohoni.6057 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Miellyn.6847 said:
    Why should they create a map completely against their own design standards?

    I answered this one above, "geographical continuity."

    Also it already happened in LS1 and many people didn't like it.

    If you mean the part about "changing an existing map," that was because people liked Kessex Hills the way it was. If you mean "empty maps" in general, they haven't made one yet, so there's no data on it.

  • MetalGirl.2370MetalGirl.2370 Member ✭✭✭

    I was so excited about PoF, thought they'd give huuuuuge map with just nothing but desert... and instead I got rocks and cliffs.
    So I like your idea, I'd love big empty map.

    STOP TELLING ME I'M NOT FORCED TO DO SOMETHING - I AM AN AP HUNTER SO YES, I HAVE TO DO IT
    ....AND GIVE HAIRSTYLES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Scrivs.4501Scrivs.4501 Member ✭✭
    edited May 8, 2018

    @Ohoni.6057 said:
    Obviously it wouldn't be like a 2d plane or anything, it would be landscape, just not terribly original or content-rich landscape. The point is, you could physically travel from A to B, there would be natural terrain along the way, it just turns out that nobody bothered to build any fancy structures there, no labs, no settlements, no pirate caves, it's just rocks and trees, like most of the real world.

    Sounds to me like what you really want is to have a valid reason and incentive to actually travel through the maps - i.e. the removal of waypoints.

  • Ohoni.6057Ohoni.6057 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Scrivs.4501 said:

    @Ohoni.6057 said:
    Obviously it wouldn't be like a 2d plane or anything, it would be landscape, just not terribly original or content-rich landscape. The point is, you could physically travel from A to B, there would be natural terrain along the way, it just turns out that nobody bothered to build any fancy structures there, no labs, no settlements, no pirate caves, it's just rocks and trees, like most of the real world.

    Sounds to me like what you really want is to have a valid reason and incentive to actually travel through the maps - i.e. the removal of waypoints.

    Lol, no, WPs are good. I just want the option to travel on foot, I want those routes to actually exist where possible. They teased that Ebonhawke gate for five years, we need to go through it eventually.

  • Biff.5312Biff.5312 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There's a lot of response to this, but looking it over I am either missing something or it hasn't been addressed:

    WHY?

    Why do you even want this? Who cares if they can make it? Why would they?

  • Ohoni.6057Ohoni.6057 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Biff.5312 said:
    There's a lot of response to this, but looking it over I am either missing something or it hasn't been addressed:

    WHY?

    Why do you even want this? Who cares if they can make it? Why would they?

    Asked and answered, several times.

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