An Eye on the Deadeye - Page 8 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

An Eye on the Deadeye

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  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jumpel.3972 said:
    I actually think they make a big mistake by choosing to remove interaction between Malice and Deadeyes Utilities. These Utilities should consume Malice when hiting the marked target with a bonus for each stack consume. It will make a better interaction between Malice system and weapon with no easy acces to stealth or bad stealth attack (like P/P and condi D/D)

    been trying P/P for the lols right now and would love something like this if it was tied to a trait or something.. like if at full M7, and dump all of that on a shadow flare for massive aoe damage would be lovely - that way it opens up more weapon choices for DE builds

  • If they at least would have kept the extra heal for 'malicious restoration' per point of malice you have but no. Generating malice with a p/p build is now completely useless! Even if you somehow go stealth, the little torment you add with 'malicious sneak attack' isn´t satisfying at all.

  • I doubt they will change it back completely but I hope they will at least give us back Death's Judgment at 4 and remove that pointless thing we got on there now, but most important make it available without stealth like before. About the new way of Malice.. I could arrange myself with that but well.. I loved my deadeye the way he was before sob Still don't see why there was an urge to change it that massive at all..

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    Prior to changes I rarely used P/P or s/p stealthed. I did express a concern early that weaponsets with low stealth access would be unable to use MALICE to any great degree. We have to trait more of the utilties and traits that provide stealth if we really want to take advantage of the Malice mechnic in these builds. IE Hidden Thief, Shadowmeld , shadowburst.

    That said without the damage add of the old malice to p/p , if one wants to stay in the DE line there enough reasons to if one p/p focused. (I tend to use p/p as support for my s/d main) One is obviously the added INI provided by Mercy and Mali 7. Premed can also make up at least some of the lost damage via the number of boons stacked on you. I generally have at least 5 if not more boons meaning a 5 percent boost. Iron sight gives a flat out 10 percent boost to damage which we never had before. Iron sight plus premed means a ~ 15 percent boost to damage without malice over old style. This 15 percent is the same you would have got with old style Malice and taking BqoBk. Add in more INI availability and as far as damage overall concerned , P/P is not suffering here.

    The IRON sight change also applies to all other weapon sets. This +10 percent across the board against marked target. This starts right at the get go and can not be ignored . Given under the old system it took time to build that malice to even get to that 10 percent damage add , in game terms the change benefits p/p when looking at damage output.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I miss Unforgiving, but at the same time I LOVE the new Silent Scope - though I can't get it to synergize well with Be Quick or Be Killed (immediate self-reveal too often). I'm also having difficulty with the new Death's Judgement, but that's mainly due to muscle memory I guess - since it kneels down and movement stops, I press 5 immediately after the cast to stand up, even though technically I'm already standing...It completely throws off my game haha.

    Other than that everything is great! Much more fun than before and new builds have opened up, burst damage is through the roof now! TY Anet! :D

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Zephyr.5382Zephyr.5382 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vulcaruss.9567 said:
    But most of the positive people aren't even using Rifle, which the majority of the changes affect.

    I'm going to third this comment--for visibility. These changes objectively worsen the main and selling point of the profession. We do need for Anet to see this.

    @Specialka.7290 said:
    I mean, it was not fun in Pve either. Trash mob, you would never be able to get full malice on any single one in open world. It had to be a veteran or more to hope for that. And once you were at full malice, you just had to spam Dj, not really great gameplay either.

    Well, that's certainly one opinion. Who was waiting for full malice stacks on sub-vet trash, anyway? I've loved the profession and the gameplay ever since it came out. It has kept me logging in to the game every day. After these unwarranted (in PvE!!!) changes, my Steam backlog is looking mighty enticing....

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zephyr.5382 said:
    After these unwarranted (in PvE!!!) changes, my Steam backlog is looking mighty enticing....

    yeah same here i started poking around starbound and gta online again after losing my motivation to play DE rifle... P/P, when i tried it earlier was really fun to play but the damage just wasnt on par with the old DE rifle

  • kraver.9318kraver.9318 Member
    edited May 9, 2018

    I feel the main purpose of these changes was to nerf Death Judgement from spam once full Malice is reached. The other changes were just to get you to think that the elite spec was revamped, not nerfed. If they really wanted to remove spamming DJ, fine. But now we have to force stealth every time we want to use DJ? Ugh.. why?

    And what's the whole point of building malice now for players who don't use rifles or stealth attacks at all? These changes make absolutely no sense, and they need to be reconsidered.

    [1] Remove that useless new [4] skill for rifle, and put Death Judgement back on there to remove forced stealth. You could've just increased initiative cost or spend Malice stacks to prevent players from spamming this skill. C'mon Anet, think!
    [2] Give us back our original Malice's damage increase passive effect.
    [3] Keep all the other changes as they are now.

  • Specialka.7290Specialka.7290 Member ✭✭✭

    The new malice system and how you build it up should stay as it is now. it is better than before.

    For Dj, they should either make the stealth happen at the end of the roll so you do not reveal yourself by mistake (but then in pvp, it is less useful since your opponent knows where you are) or put it back in 4 and remove the stealth requirement, but that means Anet will need to find a way for other builds to spend the Malice.

  • Uhmmm so prolly they wont roll back and we won't know if they'll ever try to "improve" it again lol. Paid $100 for this and I was hoping to enjoy deadeye (still lvl18 only) but it seems i'll be disappointed and might quit in a few months if no improvements are made for p/p or rifle builds.

    To clarify so p/p DE just got nerf to being unusable for either pve/pvp?

    It's just frustating I was hoping to enjoy this MMO as I didn't like the grind of bns and lack of open world pvp. And thanks to all those who replied to my earlier posts.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anesco.8310 said:
    I think you notice two player types crystallizing out of here. Most people who don't play with rifles love the changes. Most people who play with a rifle don't like the changes. I don't want to take sides, but here ArenaNet would have to listen more to the players who play with a rifle. It's about sniper specialization. This is an elite specialization praised by the rifle. The advertisements of this specialization clearly showed the thief with a rifle. If these changes now make the gunplayers dissatisfied, Anet has done a bad job. Personally, I liked the gun-wearing thief as a sniper the way he was. It was about betting the mark and finding the right position and the right moment. If you don't like this way of playing, the thief gives enough other specializations to find something suitable. I think it is important that we gun-playing thieves continue to let ANet understand how dissatisfied this is for us. If not, ANet will certainly not change anything. ANet will wait for this little s...storm and then forget about the topic. So stay tuned and report your dissatisfaction via the forum.

    I main Rifle and I love the changes.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    @jenosmaverick.8694 said:
    To clarify so p/p DE just got nerf to being unusable for either pve/pvp?

    P/P BeQuick Deadeye is fun to play in open world PvE (anything sub-veteran rank will usually melt really fast by just opening with DE mark then spamming unload) but suffers from lack of good sustainable DPS on boss fights with high HP pools (basically your opening burst is really good and that's most of where your damage comes from and then you start losing steam on prolonged fights if it drags too long) and you pretty much have no spammable AOE if you don't have a shortbow/dagger+dagger/sword for a swap set, but it is definitely usable. for PvP i think the go-to now after the changes is D/P or D/D but i will leave other people to inform you about the PvP things

  • @CattyWampus.9721 said:

    @ulgnaw.8376 said:
    TL;DR: Please do a full revert of this change.

    I don't ever post. In the past when there were changes that I hated I would just deal with them (e.g. nerf to Berserker). All of my characters are level 80, so I can just play another class. But, in this time, you've taken away a really interesting playstyle (sniper, stealth, high set up time) and now it's completely removed so that this class plays like a lesser version of other classes.

    If anything less than a full revert is under consideration, at least bring back the old Sniper's Cover mechanic.

    Please. 100% this^

    Yes.

  • breno.5423breno.5423 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    The most problematic thing is the change on silent scope, mainly because we could get on stealth out of combat before and now we can't and moreover because we have to spent endurance to get on stealth.
    But, the change on Malificent Seven was pretty cool.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i rather have death's judgment always available and back where it belongs, the barrier is just useless when you kill enemies faster then they can get close enough to even do anything.
    all PvE viewed.

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tashigi.3159 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Anesco.8310 said:
    I think you notice two player types crystallizing out of here. Most people who don't play with rifles love the changes. Most people who play with a rifle don't like the changes. I don't want to take sides, but here ArenaNet would have to listen more to the players who play with a rifle. It's about sniper specialization. This is an elite specialization praised by the rifle. The advertisements of this specialization clearly showed the thief with a rifle. If these changes now make the gunplayers dissatisfied, Anet has done a bad job. Personally, I liked the gun-wearing thief as a sniper the way he was. It was about betting the mark and finding the right position and the right moment. If you don't like this way of playing, the thief gives enough other specializations to find something suitable. I think it is important that we gun-playing thieves continue to let ANet understand how dissatisfied this is for us. If not, ANet will certainly not change anything. ANet will wait for this little s...storm and then forget about the topic. So stay tuned and report your dissatisfaction via the forum.

    I main Rifle and I love the changes.

    Do you PVE at all, then? 'Cause these changes should have costed you anywhere between 5-9K DPS if you were able to pull 32K DPS before.
    Or did you somehow find a way to break out of 26K DPS? I'd love to hear the rotation, 'cause I sure haven't.

    DE's before the rework were already 3 to 6k DPS lower than your meta power weaver/holo/dh etc. i wonder how they look at us now

  • Ryans.9571Ryans.9571 Member ✭✭

    Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

  • Cameryn.5310Cameryn.5310 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astyrah.4015 said:

    P/P BeQuick Deadeye is fun to play in open world PvE (anything sub-veteran rank will usually melt really fast by just opening with DE mark then spamming unload) but suffers from lack of good sustainable DPS on boss fights with high HP pools (basically your opening burst is really good and that's most of where your damage comes from and then you start losing steam on prolonged fights if it drags too long) and you pretty much have no spammable AOE if you don't have a shortbow/dagger+dagger/sword for a swap set, but it is definitely usable. for PvP i think the go-to now after the changes is D/P or D/D but i will leave other people to inform you about the PvP things

    This is all true.

    As a P/P PvE deadeye, MY complaint that I shared earlier in this thread is that we really no longer use Malice in any capacity... there are no weapon skills that grant stealth, and only two cantrips that are pretty much substandard. So all the Malice changes have made that mechanic utterly useless.... but the deadeye trait line is still vital (considering that it changes steals to ranged).

  • Aistos.5174Aistos.5174 Member ✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    @Ryans.9571 said:
    Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

    I'm with you, why don't give some changes (in particular malice) a chance. You have to try new things to get a chance of improving the game. But what I personally still don't understand at all are the changes to the rifle skills: If all the rifle skills would be reset (DJ back at #4, cursed bullet back at stealth-1, snipers cover grants stealth etc.) then why not give the new malice system a try.
    But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, worthless smoke wall, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need these obstacles?).

  • So I played around some with this, and honestly, I would like to see how these changes work, when the actual coding behind it isn't broken. I don't know, maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I used rifle on a target in the pvp lobby, and after using DE Mark, no hits gave me malice. NONE. No crits either. My mate used the Fire for Effect trait, and saw no might being given. I am starting to think the actual coding for DE is full of actual bugs, and that's why the damage is so bad...

    It might still be bad, but can people make sure they report any actual bugs in the game's bug report tool? Cuz I think that's a large part of the problem...

  • Specialka.7290Specialka.7290 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aistos.5174 said:

    @Ryans.9571 said:
    Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

    I'm with you, why don't give some changes (in particular malice) a chance. You have to try new things to get a chance of improving the game. But what I personally still don't understand at all are the changes to the rifle skills: If all the rifle skills would be reset (DJ back at #4, cursed bullet back at stealth-1, snipers cover grants stealth etc.) then why not try out a new malice system.
    But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, worthless smoke wall, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need this obstacles?).

    If you have any other mmo, De Rifle is easy to play (like most class in gw2). the only current real issue is that you can lost your stealth after a roll if you have a shot en route to your target at that moment, but that will be fixed hopefully.

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭

    @Specialka.7290 said:

    @Aistos.5174 said:

    @Ryans.9571 said:
    Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

    I'm with you, why don't give some changes (in particular malice) a chance. You have to try new things to get a chance of improving the game. But what I personally still don't understand at all are the changes to the rifle skills: If all the rifle skills would be reset (DJ back at #4, cursed bullet back at stealth-1, snipers cover grants stealth etc.) then why not try out a new malice system.
    But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, worthless smoke wall, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need this obstacles?).

    If you have any other mmo, De Rifle is easy to play (like most class in gw2). the only current real issue is that you can lost your stealth after a roll if you have a shot en route to your target at that moment, but that will be fixed hopefully.

    yeah to be honest, i don't like the changes but if they make it so you won't lose stealth on a silentscope-roll regardless of whatever is happening just to make prepping a DJ 100% reliable i can live with the reworked rifle DE, adjust properly and stay salty.

    oh, and while they're at it maybe they can rework malice gain a little bit like make it so you also gain some malice if you hit something blocking your target.

    i just need just either or both of these things and i will be happier but still salty :D

  • Aistos.5174Aistos.5174 Member ✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    @Specialka.7290 said:

    @Aistos.5174 said:

    @Ryans.9571 said:
    Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

    I'm with you, why don't give some changes (in particular malice) a chance. You have to try new things to get a chance of improving the game. But what I personally still don't understand at all are the changes to the rifle skills: If all the rifle skills would be reset (DJ back at #4, cursed bullet back at stealth-1, snipers cover grants stealth etc.) then why not try out a new malice system.
    But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, worthless smoke wall, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need this obstacles?).

    If you have any other mmo, De Rifle is easy to play (like most class in gw2). the only current real issue is that you can lost your stealth after a roll if you have a shot en route to your target at that moment, but that will be fixed hopefully.

    I don't think "easy" and "difficult" to play are the right words to describe the problem here. It just doesn't feel right how the rifle skills are arranged now, especially if you consider that all these changes were made for this useless smoke wall. I just wanna say I can't see any reasons for the rifle-skill (<> not malice, give it a try) changes at all - for me this arrangement takes so much fun out of the DE that I don't play it for the moment. And that's a pity because that was by far my favourite class.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astyrah.4015 said:

    @Specialka.7290 said:

    @Aistos.5174 said:

    @Ryans.9571 said:
    Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

    I'm with you, why don't give some changes (in particular malice) a chance. You have to try new things to get a chance of improving the game. But what I personally still don't understand at all are the changes to the rifle skills: If all the rifle skills would be reset (DJ back at #4, cursed bullet back at stealth-1, snipers cover grants stealth etc.) then why not try out a new malice system.
    But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, worthless smoke wall, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need this obstacles?).

    If you have any other mmo, De Rifle is easy to play (like most class in gw2). the only current real issue is that you can lost your stealth after a roll if you have a shot en route to your target at that moment, but that will be fixed hopefully.

    yeah to be honest, i don't like the changes but if they make it so you won't lose stealth on a silentscope-roll regardless of whatever is happening just to make prepping a DJ 100% reliable i can live with the reworked rifle DE, adjust properly and stay salty.

    oh, and while they're at it maybe they can rework malice gain a little bit like make it so you also gain some malice if you hit something blocking your target.

    i just need just either or both of these things and i will be happier but still salty :D

    Pretty sure that wont happen since it allows stuff to happen off of Marked target.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • Tashigi.3159Tashigi.3159 Member ✭✭✭

    @Specialka.7290 said:
    If you have any other mmo, De Rifle is easy to play (like most class in gw2). the only current real issue is that you can lost your stealth after a roll if you have a shot en route to your target at that moment, but that will be fixed hopefully.

    Before and after patch, DE was/is super easy to play. Yes, the dodge roll for stealth can break you out if your auto attack goes off as you dodge, but even if you land the perfect rotation, your DPS will be at 26.5K more or less. Here's an example of what it looks like without errors: https://image.ibb.co/hfueJy/DEpost5_8patch.png
    If you mess up and break the stealth, it'll drop by around 1K DPS; if you do it multiple times, it'll be around 2.5K DPS or so.
    However, that said, it gets worse. All these changes have put PVE Rifle DE at around 5K DPS less than before the patch.

    This is why I am so upset.
    A nerf in the guise of a rework to a spec that was already hurting.

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭

    @kash.9213 said:
    Pretty sure that wont happen since it allows stuff to happen off of Marked target.

    i know, but one can hope for something right? i mean you were sort of able to do that before the rework when malice was gained over time (and slightly sped up with autos/INI skills) :3

  • Specialka.7290Specialka.7290 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aistos.5174 said:

    @Specialka.7290 said:

    @Aistos.5174 said:

    @Ryans.9571 said:
    Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

    I'm with you, why don't give some changes (in particular malice) a chance. You have to try new things to get a chance of improving the game. But what I personally still don't understand at all are the changes to the rifle skills: If all the rifle skills would be reset (DJ back at #4, cursed bullet back at stealth-1, snipers cover grants stealth etc.) then why not try out a new malice system.
    But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, worthless smoke wall, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need this obstacles?).

    If you have any other mmo, De Rifle is easy to play (like most class in gw2). the only current real issue is that you can lost your stealth after a roll if you have a shot en route to your target at that moment, but that will be fixed hopefully.

    I don't think "easy" and "difficult" to play are the right words to describe the problem here. It just doesn't feel right how the rifle skills are arranged now, especially if you consider that all these changes were made for this useless smoke wall. I just wanna say I can't see any reasons for the rifle-skill (<> not malice, give it a try) changes at all - for me this arrangement takes so much fun out of the DE that I don't play it for the moment. And that's a pity because that was by far my favourite class.

    Well, I find the specs more fun now than before the patch because it is far more dynamic to play. So to each its own.

  • Aistos.5174Aistos.5174 Member ✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    @Specialka.7290 said:

    @Aistos.5174 said:

    @Specialka.7290 said:

    @Aistos.5174 said:

    @Ryans.9571 said:
    Just gonna add my voice in here, I think the changes for non rifle deadeye are super interesting but as a PvE Rifle Deadeye I know feel like I have no purpose. We already had to struggle to prove ourselves but now it is almost impossible to come close to keeping up damage wise. Please find some sort of middle ground that gets rifle back to the way it was while keeping up the support for non rifle Deadeyes. Right now though, I have lost a lot of my drive to play, I am sure in a week or two I will be back but not on my Thief, not unless Rifle gets fixed.

    I'm with you, why don't give some changes (in particular malice) a chance. You have to try new things to get a chance of improving the game. But what I personally still don't understand at all are the changes to the rifle skills: If all the rifle skills would be reset (DJ back at #4, cursed bullet back at stealth-1, snipers cover grants stealth etc.) then why not try out a new malice system.
    But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, worthless smoke wall, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need this obstacles?).

    If you have any other mmo, De Rifle is easy to play (like most class in gw2). the only current real issue is that you can lost your stealth after a roll if you have a shot en route to your target at that moment, but that will be fixed hopefully.

    I don't think "easy" and "difficult" to play are the right words to describe the problem here. It just doesn't feel right how the rifle skills are arranged now, especially if you consider that all these changes were made for this useless smoke wall. I just wanna say I can't see any reasons for the rifle-skill (<> not malice, give it a try) changes at all - for me this arrangement takes so much fun out of the DE that I don't play it for the moment. And that's a pity because that was by far my favourite class.

    Well, I find the specs more fun now than before the patch because it is far more dynamic to play. So to each its own.

    Of course, each its own. But do we seriously need that smoke wall? I mean this is the (extremely useless) skill that makes all the trouble for me - in combination with that annoying need of stealth for DJ.

    Edit: Lol excelent ending of your speak Mr. Zedek, made my evening, thank you Sir. Time to go now.

    @Zedek.8932 said:
    Wow, these changes are really, really terrible.
    ...
    I will sleep a night over it or wait for an explanation (sometimes my notification bell rings) what big elephant in the room I might not see, but else, I think I might actually take a long break from this game. Not because of rage because my one and only profession have been changed, but it seemingly had been changed into anything but a sniper. It's outright sad that professional video game designers do this. What's next? id Software changing DooMs rocket launchers into a minigun fireing confetti and heal you, but only on saturdays?

    Ex..celsior...* sigh *

  • DragonSlayer.1087DragonSlayer.1087 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aistos.5174 said:

    @Ryans.9571 said:

    But right now it just feels like the changes only make your life as a rifle-DE much harder without any reason. The whole rifle-system of DE seems screwed up, mainly because of the weird rifle-skill arrangement (necessary evade for stealth, worthless smoke wall, DJ not at #4 and the absence of cursed bullet - why do we need these obstacles?).

    OMG I totally forgot about that smoke wall lol.... It's so bad.
    Maybe rework that Sniper's Cover into a Kneel Version Target-Shadowstep with Stealth. Makes sense and would synergize well with DJ.
    Also I feel like they really need to bring back the % extra damage with maintaining malice in addition to consuming it with Stealth.

    Does anyone notice you automatically lose your stealth (Silent Scope) if you try to dodge while attacking? It's frustrating. You're all of a sudden "Revealed" without even using your DJ.

  • Tashigi.3159Tashigi.3159 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    Does anyone notice you automatically lose your stealth (Silent Scope) if you try to dodge while attacking? It's frustrating. You're all of a sudden "Revealed" without even using your DJ.

    Its your auto attack before DJ is enabled. This happens more often if you have Quickness on. As you roll, your auto attack will shoot and once you're in stealth and DJ is enabled, the first shot from your prior #1 skill will land, unstealth you and you will lose the chance to use DJ.
    This is one of the many issues with this change. But the BIGGEST issue that not many people are mentioning, it's the loss of a wooping 11% damage from the old Malice vs the new 10% from trait. You are forced to pick up Premeditation just to make up for it, but then you lose the 20% Crit and ability to Dodge to stealth from Silent Scope. Before, we had both.

  • Zedek.8932Zedek.8932 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    @Aistos.5174 said:
    Edit: Lol excelent ending of your speak Mr. Zedek, made my evening, thank you Sir. Time to go now.

    @Zedek.8932 said:
    Wow, these changes are really, really terrible.
    ...
    I will sleep a night over it or wait for an explanation (sometimes my notification bell rings) what big elephant in the room I might not see, but else, I think I might actually take a long break from this game. Not because of rage because my one and only profession have been changed, but it seemingly had been changed into anything but a sniper. It's outright sad that professional video game designers do this. What's next? id Software changing DooMs rocket launchers into a minigun fireing confetti and heal you, but only on saturdays?

    Ex..celsior...* sigh *

    I am also laughing and giggling hysterically in real life now. Not sure why, but apparently it's my body covering up a huge frustration. Because, I put it as it is, clear and simple, I might actually quit the game.

    I started as Engineer, and Scrapper turned into full garbage. Then I changed to Thief which was always mediocre, tending to be more on the bad side. Then Deadeye came, and it refreshed my love for it. I am even a Rifle Deadeye, since beginning, despite being objectively sub-optimal that way. But I got used to it. Marking a target, kneeling down, getting stealthed and then just fire our signature skill off. That is what this profession is. Now they did bastardize it, while nerfing it on the way, and there is no reason to keep playing a game that does that. Imagine the DMV changed your car everytime because they come up with kitten rules and regulations just because they can.

    The funny (and very sad fact) is that I just changed my wallpaper to add the lines "Primary weapon" and such. That was before reading the patchnotes, I haven't touch the game for a couple of days and just quickly flew over the boards. Isn't it funny that now neither Pistol (no stealth) nor Rifle (No..well, everything that defined the rifle on a thief) is my primary or secondary weapon, but only Daggers. A SNIPER USING DAGGERS? Seriously, I was about to curse more at this company, but for what reason?

    THIS IS WHAT DEADEYE IS ABOUT, DEAR MR. ROBERT GEE: Follow the arrows and read:

    Sorry, but this hits me like a truck. I do not really want to create another character, which would be a Necromancer, because it'll be shafted or turned into a sign spinner* by aNet a couple of months later like they did with Engineer/Scrapper.. (* random job that has nothing do with the profession, but that is quite hitting the nail on the head).

    This way, however, I do not have to care about an underwater expansion pack, because I might spend that money somewhere else. (That is my heart that just breaks, I really loved this game...)

    I wonder who is actually getting fun from these changes. You should have heard the mix of laugther and a cry of pain when I used the, think about it slowly, "smoke field that blocks projectiles" (!!! That sounds so BS and actually is) and it's like 30cm, one-side effect range. I would rather buy some plywood and carry it around with me, using it directly from my inventory, building it up in front of me, so I can hide behind it. This way I can have my kneeling skills back. Also, how am I supposed to fire through that if I can't see anything (smoke field) and if it's blocking projectiles? Whose thoughts are these? This is such rubbish.

    Excelsior, my name is Zedexx; Asuran Deadeye and assassin.
    The Hunter / 2x Darksteel Pistols / 2x Whisper's Secret Daggers and my Springer. That's all I need and trust.
    "We [Asura] are the concentrated magnificence!"

  • Aistos.5174Aistos.5174 Member ✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    Same here: GW 2 was one of the two games I loved playing over the years - I came back again and again after short breaks. I didn‘t regret one cent I spent - untill now.
    Somehow it feels like this will become a much bigger break this time...

  • Zephyr.5382Zephyr.5382 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    @Zedek.8932 said:
    Sorry, but this hits me like a truck. I do not really want to create another character, which would be a Necromancer, because it'll be shafted or turned into a sign spinner* by aNet a couple of months later like they did with Engineer/Scrapper.. (* random job that has nothing do with the profession, but that is quite hitting the nail on the head).

    This way, however, I do not have to care about an underwater expansion pack, because I might spend that money somewhere else. (That is my heart that just breaks, I really loved this game...)

    I wonder who is actually getting fun from these changes. You should have heard the mix of laugther and a cry of pain when I used the, think about it slowly, "smoke field that blocks projectiles" (!!! That sounds so BS and actually is) and it's like 30cm, one-side effect range. I would rather buy some plywood and carry it around with me, using it directly from my inventory, building it up in front of me, so I can hide behind it. This way I can have my kneeling skills back. Also, how am I supposed to fire through that if I can't see anything (smoke field) and if it's blocking projectiles? Whose thoughts are these? This is such rubbish.

    Throwing some commiseration your way, krewemate (I am--or was--also an Asura deadeye).

  • ShadowAgent.6053ShadowAgent.6053 Member ✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    so my two cents after a day (pve):

    Pros:

    • Dagger/Dagger benchmark post-patch is higher than rifle benchmark pre-patch (even with the general nerfs to the static dmg buffs from other classes)
    • P/P and rifle are both stronger in open world and on champs/bosses (this is with trickery/critical strikes/deadeye dunno for other trait combinations)

    Cons:

    • Rifle is worse on benchmarks and hence in instanced content.
    • Sinergy problems with stealthing. Please add a 0.5s window during which dmg can NOT break you out of stealth. This will help the rifle dodge and dps-ing with d/d + shadow flare.
    • Sinergy problems on all/most weapon sets regarding malice generation and malice spending. On some it feels like I simply have to get rid of them so I can build them up again (exp.: p/p with M7)

    I mainly do fractals and it seems to me that there the Staff DD will remain the better option, since it can stack more dmg modifiers for higher bursts during the 5s breakbar window, which is key in CMs, but I'm hopeful for the DE in raids. Not having access to the new stolen skills is a bummer tho.

  • JonnyForgotten.4276JonnyForgotten.4276 Member ✭✭✭

    So, after several more hours of testing. . . this change should be rolled back. All of it. Payback is terrible compared to Unforgiving (which I was seeing more and more thieves use), the malice being tied to using a stealth attack is a spit in the face of non-stealth thieves. . . it's all just bad. It reduces the number of viable DE builds, and it is all changes NO ONE wanted or asked for. I get that Anet wanted to stop the stealth camp rifle build (i.e. Malice gain being tied to landing hits), but they went way, way too far in my opinion. . . all to nerf a build that had TONS of counterplay to begin with. I am not one to say this usually, but I may very well quit the game over this.

  • Tunagod.8396Tunagod.8396 Member ✭✭

    @Zedek.8932 said:

    @Aistos.5174 said:
    Edit: Lol excelent ending of your speak Mr. Zedek, made my evening, thank you Sir. Time to go now.

    @Zedek.8932 said:
    Wow, these changes are really, really terrible.
    ...
    I will sleep a night over it or wait for an explanation (sometimes my notification bell rings) what big elephant in the room I might not see, but else, I think I might actually take a long break from this game. Not because of rage because my one and only profession have been changed, but it seemingly had been changed into anything but a sniper. It's outright sad that professional video game designers do this. What's next? id Software changing DooMs rocket launchers into a minigun fireing confetti and heal you, but only on saturdays?

    Ex..celsior...* sigh *

    I am also laughing and giggling hysterically in real life now. Not sure why, but apparently it's my body covering up a huge frustration. Because, I put it as it is, clear and simple, I might actually quit the game.

    I started as Engineer, and Scrapper turned into full garbage. Then I changed to Thief which was always mediocre, tending to be more on the bad side. Then Deadeye came, and it refreshed my love for it. I am even a Rifle Deadeye, since beginning, despite being objectively sub-optimal that way. But I got used to it. Marking a target, kneeling down, getting stealthed and then just fire our signature skill off. That is what this profession is. Now they did bastardize it, while nerfing it on the way, and there is no reason to keep playing a game that does that. Imagine the DMV changed your car everytime because they come up with kitten rules and regulations just because they can.

    The funny (and very sad fact) is that I just changed my wallpaper to add the lines "Primary weapon" and such. That was before reading the patchnotes, I haven't touch the game for a couple of days and just quickly flew over the boards. Isn't it funny that now neither Pistol (no stealth) nor Rifle (No..well, everything that defined the rifle on a thief) is my primary or secondary weapon, but only Daggers. A SNIPER USING DAGGERS? Seriously, I was about to curse more at this company, but for what reason?

    THIS IS WHAT DEADEYE IS ABOUT, DEAR MR. ROBERT GEE: Follow the arrows and read:

    Sorry, but this hits me like a truck. I do not really want to create another character, which would be a Necromancer, because it'll be shafted or turned into a sign spinner* by aNet a couple of months later like they did with Engineer/Scrapper.. (* random job that has nothing do with the profession, but that is quite hitting the nail on the head).

    This way, however, I do not have to care about an underwater expansion pack, because I might spend that money somewhere else. (That is my heart that just breaks, I really loved this game...)

    I wonder who is actually getting fun from these changes. You should have heard the mix of laugther and a cry of pain when I used the, think about it slowly, "smoke field that blocks projectiles" (!!! That sounds so BS and actually is) and it's like 30cm, one-side effect range. I would rather buy some plywood and carry it around with me, using it directly from my inventory, building it up in front of me, so I can hide behind it. This way I can have my kneeling skills back. Also, how am I supposed to fire through that if I can't see anything (smoke field) and if it's blocking projectiles? Whose thoughts are these? This is such rubbish.

    Look im with you 100% on this but you know who's getting the fun from these changes? The large majority of the people who run DP so that they can screw over the DE class by making it basically for the kitten vanilla class. They should just change the class name and all the rifle pictures. > @Zedek.8932 said:

    Wow, these changes are really, really terrible.
    I am not here for a week and then see that, I was like "Oh, I can adapt to it", tried it out, and it totally sucks. I really have to use that term.

    So, if I am not mistaken (because I used to facepalm the entire time trying to figure out the patchnotes "in real" while stumbling over one bad design decion over the next), I need to get stealthed in order to be "allowed" to use the main skill of this profession. Also, if I do so - again, if I am not mistaken there - I lose all my malice at once and have to rebuild it on that target?!

    First, why would I need to get stealthed for that? What kind of "logic" is that? Do other professions have equality stupid stipulations? "Oh hey, you need to press W, A, D, D, F5 to swing your sword, dear Warrior"? Kneeling is now some weird shadow of its former self, and I really do not have any reason to use that core mechanic anymore - for what? Getting a glorified auto attack from it? Secondly, that might be just because I fail hard because I am somewhat angry and annoyed and bittered (haha, over a video game, I know!) that I do not see any real idea on how to become stealthed "on the go". Before it made so much sense:

    I saw some target, wanted it dead. So I marked it, it's the core mechanic. I gained malice, because I want it dead. I kneeled and watched it, until I prepared so much for it that I could fire a bullet. (EDIT: Clarification: "to fire a bullet" = Death's Judgement)

    Now it (seems to be) like this: I have to shoot that guy to gain malice. Sorry, that is not "malice", that's "sadism". Getting satisfaction like this. And when I land a hit on my target, I suddenly lose my malice? How? Why? Am I suddenly now friends with my target?

    Excuse me little rant over there, but this is terrible so far. Not only is it like suddenly your car operates differently - your pedals steer, your steering wheel brakes and accelerates, and your back mirror is actually the windscreen and the windscreen your back mirror. Try to drive now. You can adapt, after crashing 100 times. But before that happens, you probably lost the will to drive in the first place.

    I will sleep a night over it or wait for an explanation (sometimes my notification bell rings) what big elephant in the room I might not see, but else, I think I might actually take a long break from this game. Not because of rage because my one and only profession have been changed, but it seemingly had been changed into anything but a sniper. It's outright sad that professional video game designers do this. What's next? id Software changing DooMs rocket launchers into a minigun fireing confetti and heal you, but only on saturdays?

    Ex..celsior...* sigh *

    I couldn't say it any better myself thank you.

  • Cameryn.5310Cameryn.5310 Member ✭✭✭

    @ShadowAgent.6053 said:
    so my two cents after a day (pve):

    Pros:

    • P/P and rifle are both stronger in open world and on champs/bosses (this is with trickery/critical strikes/deadeye dunno for other trait combinations)

    Can you explain to me how P/P is stronger in open world? I play P/P + Rifle exclusively and malice is completely useless to me now. I don't see the numbers going up, in fact they seem lower to me on general targets.

  • Tashigi.3159Tashigi.3159 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    @Cameryn.5310 said:
    Can you explain to me how P/P is stronger in open world? I play P/P + Rifle exclusively and malice is completely useless to me now. I don't see the numbers going up, in fact they seem lower to me on general targets.

    It isn't. You are experiencing a DPS loss.
    The old Malice gave 21% more damage with M7 (3% per malice). Not to mention, it was a self buff, not put on your marked target. So you could technically mark 1 person and attack another while still having the 21% bonus.
    At best, with the new traits, you have 10% and only on the marked target, then you have to choose between 1% extra per boon or 20% crit when kneeled. There is no gain here, only loss. Unless you're power D/D DE.

  • ShadowAgent.6053ShadowAgent.6053 Member ✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    If you are using the be quick or be killed trait dmg is higher since most stuff would die before you build up malice, but now you have a minor trait that gives you flat +10% dmg from the start.

    On champs you can use 7M to regain unitiative and spam a lot more your number 3 skill of choice and also you can get the buffs more than once per new mark.

    The lower number are with rifle in a group setting where you would get buffs from your group and you can no longer spam DJ.

    Edit: My statement assumes running full glass cannon gear or at least marauders. If geared defensively, thus having more time for the old malice to build up, then it can be considered a nerf to that playstyle.

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    @Cameryn.5310 said:

    @Astyrah.4015 said:

    P/P BeQuick Deadeye is fun to play in open world PvE (anything sub-veteran rank will usually melt really fast by just opening with DE mark then spamming unload) but suffers from lack of good sustainable DPS on boss fights with high HP pools (basically your opening burst is really good and that's most of where your damage comes from and then you start losing steam on prolonged fights if it drags too long) and you pretty much have no spammable AOE if you don't have a shortbow/dagger+dagger/sword for a swap set, but it is definitely usable. for PvP i think the go-to now after the changes is D/P or D/D but i will leave other people to inform you about the PvP things

    This is all true.

    As a P/P PvE deadeye, MY complaint that I shared earlier in this thread is that we really no longer use Malice in any capacity... there are no weapon skills that grant stealth, and only two cantrips that are pretty much substandard. So all the Malice changes have made that mechanic utterly useless.... but the deadeye trait line is still vital (considering that it changes steals to ranged).

    When you look at this objectively his simply not true. P/P is in a better place since these changes.

    Little was lost with the changes while at the same time significant gains made. There are now VERY good reasons to having some stealth in the build which in turn leads to use of more of the p/p builds skills.

    If you were one that used Bqobk you have lost next to nothing in the way of overall damage given the changes to Iron sights and the add of premeditation. Take these skills and keep BqobK and your build will play very much like the old outside durations on stolen skills.

    If you want to maximize the return of malice then switch BqoBk to MALI 7 and get some stealth in there. The payback is significant.

  • GWMO.4785GWMO.4785 Member ✭✭✭

    Im not sure where anet is going with it. I know their approach was to nerf the stealth one shot build in wvw/pvp, but currently i find deadeye very akward in use.. Striking a foe makes you build malice. You loose that malice when you dont have a mark as well as if you get reveal debuff. Which means in order to do "high" damage, you need to abandon stealth or rather watch out not to get reveal debuff, which is more or less a mechanic for thief to deal temporarily increased damage. (see Revealed Training Trait). This is not where it ends however. Your (critical) hits on aa does not contribute to build up malice. Which means you need to spend initiative to build it up... But if you do that you do not have initiative left / low to land big hitting attacks, cause you just used your resource.....

    So.. right now, the only way i think DE is viable (not explicit or great) is by using some high initiative regen build with double pistol to spam Unload. But then you loose valuable traits to actually deal high damage... Also i dont see a reason to use rifle anymore since revealed is literately a debuff.. (Why does this still lock you in place?!)

    R.I.P Deadeye? /Just my 2 cents on it