I wish dueling was a thing

[MarshallLaw.9260]

@Eme.2018 said:

@"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:Conclusion: it

could

be made to work. It would require some game mechanical changes and a "not me, thanks" automatic decline toggle, but overall I don't think it's the best use of Anet's time.

Dueling as a function of Time and Effort is

ABSOLUTELY

worth the result because with

little time

and

little effort

you have a game-changing result (game-changing meaning unlocking many new possibilities in-game).

My dude, we can all appreciate that you're passionate about this topic, however the two main factors of your argument are completely subjective.

1. "little time and effort" - actually I don't think you can quantify this, perhaps it would take a decent amount of coding to make this work (I mean the whole dueling system, not the invite/avoid mechanic).
2. "absolutely worth the result" - perhaps for you and a handful of other dueling enthusiasts. I'm not saying I wouldn't try it, but for myself, like many others it won't really be game changing.

My suggestion to you is make some research (maybe a poll) into how much of the population would actually want this, vs how many people (like myself) are indifferent.

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

One solution to the request for dueling, which wouldn't cause issues for players who don't want to duel, is to introduce an arena in one of the main cities. In fact, you could even use the Queen's Gauntlet arena, which is an asset in the game which has not been utilized for a long time, and that is currently going to waste. Just make it so players can go to the arena to duel, and challenge each other, while other players can spectate. Because it's also a specific, separate location, it also means you won't be harassed for duels in other areas if you don't want to be.

Also, with multiple small arenas to utilize in the case of using the Queen's Gauntlet arena (or any other similar arena implemented), it would give a space in which players can duel without outside interference (I.E. other players giving you boons, blocking your view, etc).

[Eme.2018]

@"MarshallLaw.9260" said:

1. "little time and effort" - actually I don't think you can quantify this, perhaps it would take a decent amount of coding to make this work (I mean the whole dueling system, not the invite/avoid mechanic).
2. "absolutely worth the result" - perhaps for you and a handful of other dueling enthusiasts. I'm not saying I wouldn't try it, but for myself, like many others it won't really be game changing.

My suggestion to you is make some research (maybe a poll) into how much of the population would actually want this, vs how many people (like myself) are indifferent.

You misread my post. I wrote "Dueling as a function of Time and Effort", you examined every factor separately. As a function of time and effort dueling is worth the result because it requires no new resources and simultaneously it adds a new and fresh mechanic in-game.

Don't bring the subjective argument to the table . Of course it will require "a decent amount of coding" but that's nothing compared to let's say making a new skin. At the same time dueling adds many more possibilities and rejuvenates the game a lot more than one skin does. (That's just an example, I am sure someone else can think of a more effective and delicate way of putting it.)

[MarshallLaw.9260]

@"Eme.2018" said:dueling adds many more possibilities and rejuvenates the game a lot more than one skin does.

I'm fairly sure my argument still stands. Besides, you are comparing apples and pears. Skins are created to provide funding through potential gem sales so their purpose would not be comparable.Would dueling "rejuvenate" the game? Sure, it would improve the game by adding a new action, but you really can't determine the impact. I can understand from your position, the view is biased, since you are in favor of this. My point of view is unbiased since I don't see the addition of this mechanic as being a personal desire, nor am I against dueling.

As far as I can see, we already have the tools to be able to engage in 1v1 combat in custom arenas. These are also a gold sink to an extent so by reducing the need for them, devs also remove that aspect.The argument isn't really that I don't like dueling, it just seems a waste of resources to develop something we already have but in a different place.

[Eme.2018]

@MarshallLaw.9260I partly agree, you can't quantify the effort meaning you cant say "Running 10 miles a day requires no effort." but you can say something like "Running 10 miles a day requires no effort compared to running 50 miles a day." which is exactly what I am saying.

@"MarshallLaw.9260" said:Besides, you are comparing apples and pears. Skins are created to provide funding through potential gem sales so their purpose would not be comparable.Now you are falling out of the subject. Maybe skins weren't the perfect example (even though not all skins are created for gem sales), but my point still stands and I will continue to use the skin example because I think it is not totally irrelevant.

What is the point of updating the game? To keep it fresh and new. The means to achieve that, do not really matter in the grand scheme of things.So about all that comparing "apples and pears", no. I am comparing the time and effort different updating mechanisms need.

About you being "unbiased", the fact that you claimed to be unbiased makes you biased by definition.

[Vieux P.1238]

I truly think dueling does have it's place in the world. Still you would need to have the options to turn off messaging X person wants to duel you. It can be annoying when you pve or doing something else. But for players just hanging around main cities & chatting can be a fun thing. for role players as well to. This game is in dire need of a bit of messy chaos. Gw2 got corrected to the point of staleness & bland. Not good!

[NuhDah.9812]

I've got an idea... how about dueling requests can only be send between party members? That would let friends have duels between them if they want to and also make it so you can't spam and bother people who aren't interested in it.

[coro.3176]

... but the maps though! It'd be so much fun to fight in Rata Sum, or Caledon Forest, just for the interesting terrain..

.. or any map with a large event that spawns at a certain time. Think of all those people just sitting afk waiting for some boring world-boss to show up so they can go press 1 at it for 5 minutes. Why not spice it up with a little dueling while they wait?

I really cannot see ANY downside. Make it opt in, and you can already block players if they annoy you. Any potential problems are solved!

[flog.3485]

@coro.3176 said:... but the maps though! It'd be so much fun to fight in Rata Sum, or Caledon Forest, just for the interesting terrain..

.. or any map with a large event that spawns at a certain time. Think of all those people just sitting afk waiting for some boring world-boss to show up so they can go press 1 at it for 5 minutes. Why not spice it up with a little dueling while they wait?

I really cannot see ANY downside. Make it opt in, and you can already block players if they annoy you. Any potential problems are solved!

But here is the big problem: numbers of players allowed in a map. If you allow dueling in a map where a major meta event spawns and some players can’t join the instance because their place is taken by players who are dueling and are not contributing, then what do you do ? It just deincentivizes players using the LFG.

You also certainly don’t want to recreate the problem of having raid portals only in open world where events of one map were massively scaled because there was a bunch of players afking in front of the portal.

In the end here is what would happened: you would have a specified instance where players would go to duel, which is very much what we already have with guild halls or hotjoin 1v1 servers.

[Ario.8964]

Dueling is available in pvp servers and in guild hall arenas...That being said dueling is mostly pointless now as almost every build can permanently stall out a fight when they aren't confined to a point and aren't running full glass.

[Sinful.2165]

I would love a duel option. I don’t know why there are so many naysayers flocking to this thread. Just add an option to refuse duel requests.

It would be loads of fun and add a whole new dimension to interacting and socializing in the game.

[mortrialus.3062]

@flog.3485 said:

@coro.3176 said:... but the maps though! It'd be so much fun to fight in Rata Sum, or Caledon Forest, just for the interesting terrain..

.. or any map with a large event that spawns at a certain time. Think of all those people just sitting afk waiting for some boring world-boss to show up so they can go press 1 at it for 5 minutes. Why not spice it up with a little dueling while they wait?

I really cannot see ANY downside. Make it opt in, and you can already block players if they annoy you. Any potential problems are solved!

But here is the big problem: numbers of players allowed in a map. If you allow dueling in a map where a major meta event spawns and some players can’t join the instance because their place is taken by players who are dueling and are not contributing, then what do you do ? It just deincentivizes players using the LFG.

You also certainly don’t want to recreate the problem of having raid portals only in open world where events of one map were massively scaled because there was a bunch of players afking in front of the portal.

In the end here is what would happened: you would have a specified instance where players would go to duel, which is very much what we already have with guild halls or hotjoin 1v1 servers.

There's always people in meta maps not contributing whether they're just afking with just enough participation to get rewards or gathering nodes, or doing hero points or whatever. A couple of guys having a duel isn't going to destabilize the meta event system.

[flog.3485]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@coro.3176 said:... but the maps though! It'd be so much fun to fight in Rata Sum, or Caledon Forest, just for the interesting terrain..

.. or any map with a large event that spawns at a certain time. Think of all those people just sitting afk waiting for some boring world-boss to show up so they can go press 1 at it for 5 minutes. Why not spice it up with a little dueling while they wait?

I really cannot see ANY downside. Make it opt in, and you can already block players if they annoy you. Any potential problems are solved!

But here is the big problem: numbers of players allowed in a map. If you allow dueling in a map where a major meta event spawns and some players can’t join the instance because their place is taken by players who are dueling and are not contributing, then what do you do ? It just deincentivizes players using the LFG.

You also certainly don’t want to recreate the problem of having raid portals only in open world where events of one map were massively scaled because there was a bunch of players afking in front of the portal.

In the end here is what would happened: you would have a specified instance where players would go to duel, which is very much what we already have with guild halls or hotjoin 1v1 servers.

There's always people in meta maps not contributing whether they're just afking with just enough participation to get rewards or gathering nodes, or doing hero points or whatever. A couple of guys having a duel isn't going to destabilize the meta event system.

I personally don’t agree with you because dueling is far more impactful and draws a lot more attention than having a few solo players gathering nodes or whatever.

Don’t get me wrong. I am not here to say that dueling is bad. I did have have some duels from time to time in the guild hall, in hotjoin arenas and in WvW.

I just think that because it will be impactful, it will be abused and therefore it will need support of not only implementing dueling in open world but also regularly updating it. Do you really think that the devs can do this ? How much time before you see threads pop up saying “dueling is unbalanced, dueling is bugged bla-bla-bla?”

Imo they can’t because their teams are already stretched enough. And here is the most important thing: dueling can already happen without any devs further resources used in the process. It is also way too late (after 6 years) to implement such a groundbreaking development when devs have put so much effort into making PvE a full cooperative and supportive-uncompetitive area.

[sephiroth.4217]

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@Eme.2018 said:dueling adds many more possibilities and rejuvenates the game a lot more than one skin does.

As far as I can see, we already have the tools to be able to engage in 1v1 combat in custom arenas. These are also a gold sink to an extent so by reducing the need for them, devs also remove that aspect.The argument isn't really that I don't like dueling, it just seems a waste of resources to develop something we already have but in a different place.

You're right, we do have dueling in other places.... What server are you on?

Maybe in 14 weeks when WvW rotations change we might be against each other in WvW for a duel?

If that doesn't work, give me about another 12 months to build my guild arena and hopefully we can have a duel then yea? Assuming you got room for a guild invite.

If that's not good enough, how about we go to sPvP and completely gut our builds down to a limited selection of amulets, runes and sigils and maybe we can replicate our builds for a duel there? We'll both run zerker, you can play the Elementalist :lol:

[mortrialus.3062]

@flog.3485 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@"coro.3176" said:... but the maps though! It'd be so much fun to fight in Rata Sum, or Caledon Forest, just for the interesting terrain..

.. or any map with a large event that spawns at a certain time. Think of all those people just sitting afk waiting for some boring world-boss to show up so they can go press 1 at it for 5 minutes. Why not spice it up with a little dueling while they wait?

I really cannot see ANY downside. Make it opt in, and you can already block players if they annoy you. Any potential problems are solved!

But here is the big problem: numbers of players allowed in a map. If you allow dueling in a map where a major meta event spawns and some players can’t join the instance because their place is taken by players who are dueling and are not contributing, then what do you do ? It just deincentivizes players using the LFG.

You also certainly don’t want to recreate the problem of having raid portals only in open world where events of one map were massively scaled because there was a bunch of players afking in front of the portal.

In the end here is what would happened: you would have a specified instance where players would go to duel, which is very much what we already have with guild halls or hotjoin 1v1 servers.

There's always people in meta maps not contributing whether they're just afking with just enough participation to get rewards or gathering nodes, or doing hero points or whatever. A couple of guys having a duel isn't going to destabilize the meta event system.

I personally don’t agree with you because dueling is far more impactful and draws a lot more attention than having a few solo players gathering nodes or whatever.

Don’t get me wrong. I am not here to say that dueling is bad. I did have have some duels from time to time in the guild hall, in hotjoin arenas and in WvW.

I just think that because it will be impactful, it will be abused and therefore it will need support of not only implementing dueling in open world but also regularly updating it. Do you really think that the devs can do this ? How much time before you see threads pop up saying “dueling is unbalanced, dueling is bugged bla-bla-bla?”

Imo they can’t because their teams are already stretched enough. And here is the most important thing: dueling can already happen without any devs further resources used in the process. It is also way too late (after 6 years) to implement such a groundbreaking development when devs have put so much effort into making PvE a full cooperative and supportive-uncompetitive area.

What meta events with full maps are struggling to get done now a days? I mean heck there's always 30+ people in every full Auric Basin map AFKing at east. The Domain of Istan and Sandswept Isles metas have huge quantities of AFK turret engineers. These events get done just fine. Dueling isn't going to render open world PvE unplayable.

There's already systems for enabling players to attack each other and to switch allegiances and make players hostile to each other on the fly already built into the game, which would be the bulk of the work required to make this system work. The rest adding a "Accept duel" menu, a timer when the duel is accepted, and a system that ends the duel when one player reaches 1 HP. WoW's dueling system is pretty basic and that's really all we'd need and I really don't think it would take a developer more than a day or two's work to implement this.

Players upset about 1v1 dueling not being balanced would be barking up the wrong tree and I would have zero sympathy for them.

[MarshallLaw.9260]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@"Eme.2018" said:dueling adds many more possibilities and rejuvenates the game a lot more than one skin does.

As far as I can see, we already have the tools to be able to engage in 1v1 combat in custom arenas. These are also a gold sink to an extent so by reducing the need for them, devs also remove that aspect.The argument isn't really that I don't like dueling, it just seems a waste of resources to develop something we already have but in a different place.

You're right, we do have dueling in other places.... What server are you on?

Maybe in 14 weeks when WvW rotations change we might be against each other in WvW for a duel?

If that doesn't work, give me about another 12 months to build my guild arena and hopefully we can have a duel then yea? Assuming you got room for a guild invite.

If that's not good enough, how about we go to sPvP and completely gut our builds down to a limited selection of amulets, runes and sigils and maybe we can replicate our builds for a duel there? We'll both run zerker, you can play the Elementalist :lol:

As long as you're on NA we can both chip in 100g and create our own arena.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Custom_ArenaI can appreciate that the stat selection there is arguably less diverse since you can't mix runes or gear stats too much but the capability is undeniably there.In addition, at least 1 of the guilds I rep has an arena set up and I'm sure they wouldn't mind adding you, providing you're not too disruptive.

As I keep saying, I'm not against the idea of dueling, but since there are plenty of options currently on the table, I feel it's not essential to be putting resources into this.Some people claim it will revolutionize GW2 if implemented, I disagree. Others say it will ruin gaming experience for them - I don't share that view.

[flog.3485]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@"coro.3176" said:... but the maps though! It'd be so much fun to fight in Rata Sum, or Caledon Forest, just for the interesting terrain..

.. or any map with a large event that spawns at a certain time. Think of all those people just sitting afk waiting for some boring world-boss to show up so they can go press 1 at it for 5 minutes. Why not spice it up with a little dueling while they wait?

I really cannot see ANY downside. Make it opt in, and you can already block players if they annoy you. Any potential problems are solved!

But here is the big problem: numbers of players allowed in a map. If you allow dueling in a map where a major meta event spawns and some players can’t join the instance because their place is taken by players who are dueling and are not contributing, then what do you do ? It just deincentivizes players using the LFG.

You also certainly don’t want to recreate the problem of having raid portals only in open world where events of one map were massively scaled because there was a bunch of players afking in front of the portal.

In the end here is what would happened: you would have a specified instance where players would go to duel, which is very much what we already have with guild halls or hotjoin 1v1 servers.

There's always people in meta maps not contributing whether they're just afking with just enough participation to get rewards or gathering nodes, or doing hero points or whatever. A couple of guys having a duel isn't going to destabilize the meta event system.

I personally don’t agree with you because dueling is far more impactful and draws a lot more attention than having a few solo players gathering nodes or whatever.

Don’t get me wrong. I am not here to say that dueling is bad. I did have have some duels from time to time in the guild hall, in hotjoin arenas and in WvW.

I just think that because it will be impactful, it will be abused and therefore it will need support of not only implementing dueling in open world but also regularly updating it. Do you really think that the devs can do this ? How much time before you see threads pop up saying “dueling is unbalanced, dueling is bugged bla-bla-bla?”

Imo they can’t because their teams are already stretched enough. And here is the most important thing: dueling can already happen without any devs further resources used in the process. It is also way too late (after 6 years) to implement such a groundbreaking development when devs have put so much effort into making PvE a full cooperative and supportive-uncompetitive area.

What meta events with full maps are struggling to get done now a days? I mean heck there's always 30+ people in every full Auric Basin map AFKing at east. The Domain of Istan and Sandswept Isles metas have huge quantities of AFK turret engineers. These events get done just fine. Dueling isn't going to render open world PvE unplayable.

There's already systems for enabling players to attack each other and to switch allegiances and make players hostile to each other on the fly already built into the game, which would be the bulk of the work required to make this system work. The rest adding a "Accept duel" menu, a timer when the duel is accepted, and a system that ends the duel when one player reaches 1 HP. WoW's dueling system is pretty basic and that's really all we'd need and I really don't think it would take a developer more than a day or two's work to implement this.

Players upset about 1v1 dueling not being balanced would be barking up the wrong tree and I would have zero sympathy for them.

Maybe. But still I don’t want dueling to be implemented in open world. I have provided my feedback and you have provided yours. Let’s see whose feedback they want to listen to.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

I think its hilarious that this is still going. There are many methods of dueling (more than needed imo and I love dueling), however OP doesnt appear to care...so why should we care about open world dueling? Why implement something that isnt needed.

When Anet first did GW, they wanted to separate themselves from other MMO's (especially WoW...hence no holy trinity) Yes Anet brought mounts, however 5 is nothing. Open world dueling would make GW like other mmo's (which counters anet's initial philosophy). Iirc there was even something from them stated a while ago that it was something they werent looking into.

[Eme.2018]

@"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:I think its hilarious that this is still going. There are many methods of dueling (more than needed imo and I love dueling), however OP doesnt appear to care...so why should we care about open world dueling? Why implement something that isnt needed.There are many methods of dueling and which could in a sense "justify" why all of them are so abysmal. Nothing even remotely compares to the quality of life that an "actual" duel option would bring.@MarshallLaw.9260 said:As long as you're on NA we can both chip in 100g and create our own arena.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Custom_ArenaThat's a terrible option, creating an arena just so you could duel freely without having to rely on other people's servers or on the randomness of the WvW, and yet this is the "best" option we have. This is exactly what I am talking about.

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:Some people claim it will revolutionize GW2 if implemented, I disagree. Others say it will ruin gaming experience for them - I don't share that view.I don't think anyone claimed it would revolutionize Gw2; the statement itself is completely arbitrary. We know for a fact though that an open world duel option would be the most easily accessible and direct approach to dueling, a quality of life change, somewhat a relief.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Eme.2018 said:

@"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:I think its hilarious that this is still going. There are many methods of dueling (more than needed imo and I love dueling), however OP doesnt appear to care...so why should we care about open world dueling? Why implement something that isnt needed.There are many methods of dueling and which could in a sense "justify" why all of them are so abysmal. Nothing even remotely compares to the quality of life that an "actual" duel option would bring.

Thats the thing tho. With the many ways to duel (theres even arenas specifically for dueling in G.Hall), having another "dueling" option wouldn't be that good of a QoL as its pointless. If The arena in the guild hall were removed then maybe (as I hate dueling in PvP due to build restrictions, and some ppl hate dueling in WvW/OS as they can technically be ganked), the hall is the perfect spot as its personal and can do full build and its out of the way of everything, yet easily accessible. Unless they remove the g.hall's arena, I can't 110% see anet implementing such as a "large scale environment pvp" is essentially WvW.

[Eme.2018]

@"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:Thats the thing tho. With the many ways to duel (theres even arenas specifically for dueling in G.Hall), having another "dueling" option wouldn't be that good of a QoL as its pointless. If The arena in the guild hall were removed then maybe (as I hate dueling in PvP due to build restrictions, and some ppl hate dueling in WvW/OS as they can technically be ganked), the hall is the perfect spot as its personal and can do full build and its out of the way of everything, yet easily accessible. Unless they remove the g.hall's arena, I can't 110% see anet implementing such as a "large scale environment pvp" is essentially WvW.Is that an answer ? How is the hall better in any way? What about the players who are not in the same or in a guild?

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Eme.2018 said:

@"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:Thats the thing tho. With the many ways to duel (theres even arenas specifically for dueling in G.Hall), having another "dueling" option wouldn't be that good of a QoL as its pointless. If The arena in the guild hall were removed then maybe (as I hate dueling in PvP due to build restrictions, and some ppl hate dueling in WvW/OS as they can technically be ganked), the hall is the perfect spot as its personal and can do full build and its out of the way of everything, yet easily accessible. Unless they remove the g.hall's arena, I can't 110% see anet implementing such as a "large scale environment pvp" is essentially WvW.Is that an answer ? How is the hall better in any way? What about the players who are not in the same or in a guild?

That is an answer. I have explained how its better so I will not repeat myself. As for your last question, it takes seconds to throw a quick invite to a guild. Ive done it for dueling purposes. Other guilds do it. Its not complicated or difficult. Its a simple solution thats already implemented, however I fear you fail to see it as others do in order to attempt to get your point across, however its something thats simply not needed..

[MarshallLaw.9260]

@Eme.2018 said:

@"MarshallLaw.9260" said:As long as you're on NA we can both chip in 100g and create our own arena.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Custom_Arena

That's a terrible option, creating an arena just so you could duel freely without having to rely on other people's servers or on the randomness of the WvW, and yet this is the "best" option we have. This is exactly what I am talking about.

I think this is where our opinions differ.Why is this a terrible option?For just 200g you get 30 days of unlimited access to a private area to duel, 2v2, 3v3 (whatever you like really).I'm fairly sure there are open arenas for 1v1 too if you think the cost is too high and as mentioned before, plenty of guilds have their Guild Hall Arena set up.With all due respect, you're dismissing the current access methods because "you don't like them" which really isn't a solid counter.Really I think this boils down to this :I believe we have enough, you don't like what we have (without giving a reason) and want more/alternatives. Those are both just points of view.

[Eme.2018]

Never said open world duels are a need. The solutions are simply impractical, the cost of the effort to make a duel happen probably isn't worth the duel in many of those cases.@MarshallLaw.9260 Either deliberate or unintentional, your ignorance is unjustifiable.

[Glacial.9516]

Strongly opposed to dueling in the vicinity of main NPCs (crafting, banking, TP and such). But I have no qualms with a dueling option in general provided there is the option to disable requests. I'm rarely fond of dueling in games because of many of the things discussed already in this thread. It's absurd how many duelers seem to think chasing you around and spamming requests or spamming chat will suddenly change your mind. It's about as obnoxious as the random guild invite spam that some games are plagued by.

I do think there are positives to having some form of agreed-upon pvp in public areas though. Even if I may prefer not to partake, I've seen in games where players organize their own duels or tournaments for fun and others can sit by and watch or even join in if they'd like to. Unfortunately, the more freedom you give to players the more likely they are to abuse it. Which is probably why it's far more common to see the dueler that spams and annoys you with their goading.