Siege Revisions - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Siege Revisions

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  • Dark.1605Dark.1605 Member ✭✭

    AC is being deadly like 5 acs can wipe 50man , thats sick , i wish they do damage reduction for players more effective as siege bunker gives more damage reduction , siege damage against siege is fine , also for SMC which is the highest ppt structure i think Anet should do work on it , i cant land a single piece of siege without being countered smc should be controlled by server activity and fight not siege so as for other keeps

  • Add more types of siege.

    Add siege skins to wvw reward track

    Move canons and burning oil to a location that is less accessible to enemy invaders. Canon and burning oil are pretty useless imo.

    Improve the use via damage of char car when sieging - its pretty terrible right now

    Add a buff to players under siege by arrow carts while under a bubble for reduced damage.

    Add a debuff to bubbles under siege from arrow carts with new arrow cart ability that weakens shield bubbles.

    Change the aiming of catapult and trebuchet to mouse aoe target. This can be used on mini map for larger distance shots. Power can be determined via another input method or by holding the shot key i.e mouse button.

    Just off the top of my head

  • Celsith.2753Celsith.2753 Member ✭✭✭

    A few quick things that come to mind:-

    Shield generators should not be able to bubble so close to themselves that they cover themself and their user.
    Damage caused to shield generators has never been added to the combat log, making it very hard to know if you are hitting one with a treb, for example. They need to be added to the log.

    When siege hp was doubled to account for it now taking condition damage, no change was made to the damage caused to siege by other siege. This really makes ballistas underpowered as anti siege. Ballista damage to siege needs to be doubled.

    Siege in general, in my opinion, does far too much damage to players and far too little to other siege. The current damage values effectively stifle players interacting with each other and instead place the focus of wvw around player v siege. It's not unusual to have a scenario where you spend hours and hours trying to get close enough to something to desiege it or fight over it, only for the actual fight when you get in there to last a couple of minutes at best - and that's assuming the defenders, even if a blob, don't simply port out when the wall/gate goes down.

    Siege v siege needs to be strong enough for a smaller defending group to use strategy, supply denial and defensive siege to kill siege or delay long enough for help to arrive. Siege v player should NOT be so strong you can simply sit on it and never actually fight.

    885k+ WvW kills
    Diamond No Life
    [HUNT] Predatory Instinct

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Celsith.2753 said:
    Shield generators should not be able to bubble so close to themselves that they cover themself and their user.

    Zerg would drop 4 gens to solve this issue. 2 to bubble the rams/catas and 2 near the rams/catas to bubble the other gens.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Red Haired Savage.5430Red Haired Savage.5430 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 19, 2018

    Cannons and Balistas faster projectile. Mortars, catas, and trebs turn faster. As far as what someone else said change gravel shot it's horrible and only people that don't know what cata does use it.

    #nornmodeisbestmode

  • Seige placement have a Specific distance away from gates and walls
    soom places i have seen seige placed should never be able to take down a gate or wall
    placing catas inside walls or cliffs and hitting the rock face under the wall impossible to defend against where acs carnt touch them

  • Notjes.7182Notjes.7182 Member ✭✭

    @Vladimort.9178 said:
    Dear Anet Santa:

    Introduce a 4th Borderland. Establish one or more of the following on said map:

    1. Disable siege placement
    2. Purge all gates from every structure

    Just do this on EB for 1 week. Lets see how it goes!

  • Blackarps.1974Blackarps.1974 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 19, 2018

    Remove superior arrow carts, half their damage to players, or cap the number allowed in one structure (easy to troll though). Literally nothing wrong with any of the other siege. Catas range doesn't matter cause you can build trebs so that's null. Any siege not doing enough damage doesn't make sense, just build more. Trebs might need looking into because of people using macros or placing things on their keyboards to hold buttons down to AFK farm pips. Everything is really fine though, just the amount of arrow carts people build to make up for their lack of skill. Now I'm not totally against finding ways to make towers, keeps or SMC easier to defend against blobs when you have say 5 people, but when a blob is inside with 5+ arrow carts waiting for the enemies outside to push in and die on inc, its just not fun. My guild will just leave. Dying instantly while people auto-cast from the top of stairs isn't fun.

    Don't buff any siege or add anymore that aids siege in anyway. Nerfs only please or we might as well just siege everything up and wave to each other from towers. The ONLY way I see a buff to siege working is if you went and took out half the towers, keeps and camps. That way taking something meant a lot more. That would be boring though because people already AFK enough in keeps as it is.

  • Celsith.2753Celsith.2753 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Celsith.2753 said:
    Shield generators should not be able to bubble so close to themselves that they cover themself and their user.

    Zerg would drop 4 gens to solve this issue. 2 to bubble the rams/catas and 2 near the rams/catas to bubble the other gens.

    You're quite right. It does add another layer to the organisation needed, but probably a longer cd on bubble's or other solution is required.

    885k+ WvW kills
    Diamond No Life
    [HUNT] Predatory Instinct

  • Celsith.2753Celsith.2753 Member ✭✭✭

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:
    As far as what someone else said change gravel shot it's horrible and only people that don't know what cata does use it.

    Gravel shot has been bugged since the start of the game and you can misuse it to one shot people. This should be fixed.

    885k+ WvW kills
    Diamond No Life
    [HUNT] Predatory Instinct

  • Zephyra.4709Zephyra.4709 Member ✭✭✭

    My 2 cents:

    SIEGE:

    • ARROW CART: Nerf damage slightly. Increase damage taken by ballistae
    • BALLISTAE: Increase arc so that the bolt can reach over the lip of walls. Increase damage done to arrow carts. Make Fire Reinforced Shot pierce through shield generator dome/bubbles
    • CATAPULT: Change Fire Gravel to apply Structural Vulnerability unique to walls only (literally never seen anyone use Fire Gravel unless it was accidentally switched over to). Remove ability to place catapults directly next to/on base of walls.
    • TREBUCHET: Massively increase the effects of Healing Oasis, additionally, make this skill pulse an immunity to the effects of Fire Bloated Putrid Cow while clearing 1 condition every pulse or every second for the duration of the skill
    • SHIELD GENERATOR: Increase minimum range required to place Force Dome

    STRUCTURE SIEGE:

    • BURNING OIL: Add 10 seconds of Iron Hide while initially interacting with the siege (ICD: 40 seconds). The burning application of Pour Oil now spreads to enemy players near it. Improve the effects of Burning Shell to apply pulsing resistance & stability to the user for 10 seconds (ICD: 30 seconds). Change the cripple from Pour Tar to immobilize
    • CANNON: Remove 'point and click' functionality. It now requires charging the skill to fire akin to catapults, trebuchets, mortars (range depends on how long the skill is charged for, and also on the cannon's elevation)
    • MASTER CANNON: Relocate all Master Cannon build sites to better compliment the cannon's introduction as defensive siege weapons. As it currently stands the location of these build sites server zero purpose but should be able to reach areas where enemies are likely to build siege assaulting nearby objectives. All skills require charging to fire akin to catapults, trebuchets, mortars (range depends on how long the skill is charged for, and also on the cannon's elevation). Northern master cannons should be able to reach Garrison's southern gates or stairwells leading up. SE & SW master cannons should be located closer to each tower, preferably guarding a section of wall (NW wall for NW tower and NW wall for SE tower). Southern master cannon may be better suited to being place closer to SW tower so it may reach the outskirts of the eastern wall and any area before it
    • MORTAR: No changes needed but we should be able to load Asuras into it and shoot them over walls
  • Karnasis.6892Karnasis.6892 Member ✭✭✭

    My honest opinion is that Siege is relatively fine as is (with some needed updates in certain aspects). Leave the damage values as is, or the mechanics of them.

    I think the best thing you could do is give us more places to place the siege, both offensively and defensively though you have to be careful here as there would be more places you can't counter siege if done improperly.

    Also, siege placement for towers/keeps. Fire keep cannons for example, are so bad, and basically useless because not only are you not even "safe" in your keep, but some of them are behind pillars.... that blocks your shots and view of the outside of the keep.... sometimes exactly where people put catapults. However keep in mind if you change siege drastically you'll either make it super useless or even more op.... which is why I like the state of siege as is.

  • hunkamania.7561hunkamania.7561 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Karnasis.6892 said:
    My honest opinion is that Siege is relatively fine as is (with some needed updates in certain aspects). Leave the damage values as is, or the mechanics of them.

    I think the best thing you could do is give us more places to place the siege, both offensively and defensively though you have to be careful here as there would be more places you can't counter siege if done improperly.

    Also, siege placement for towers/keeps. Fire keep cannons for example, are so bad, and basically useless because not only are you not even "safe" in your keep, but some of them are behind pillars.... that blocks your shots and view of the outside of the keep.... sometimes exactly where people put catapults. However keep in mind if you change siege drastically you'll either make it super useless or even more op.... which is why I like the state of siege as is.

    This is the exact reason you shouldn't listen to these guys. "siege is fine" lol

    Ferguson's Crossing Server Leader

    WVW LEADER

    VR

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @hunkamania.7561 said:

    @Karnasis.6892 said:
    My honest opinion is that Siege is relatively fine as is (with some needed updates in certain aspects). Leave the damage values as is, or the mechanics of them.

    I think the best thing you could do is give us more places to place the siege, both offensively and defensively though you have to be careful here as there would be more places you can't counter siege if done improperly.

    Also, siege placement for towers/keeps. Fire keep cannons for example, are so bad, and basically useless because not only are you not even "safe" in your keep, but some of them are behind pillars.... that blocks your shots and view of the outside of the keep.... sometimes exactly where people put catapults. However keep in mind if you change siege drastically you'll either make it super useless or even more op.... which is why I like the state of siege as is.

    This is the exact reason you shouldn't listen to these guys. "siege is fine" lol

    Seige is fine. They add another tactical layer to wvw gameplay.

    Players need to improve their “game”, and realize there is more to wvw than blobbing up and spamming skills without thinking.

  • Rezzet.3614Rezzet.3614 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 19, 2018

    i disagree with most players here, everyone asking for nerfs on siege to focus on PvP , on paper is a good idea but real combats usually have one side greatly outnumbered making siege so weak that players can camp them harder than scourge blobs already do would cause more harm than good

    Trebuchet needs the cata treatment they are underwhelming against higher tier structures as it is

    Oil needs a serious upgrade

  • -Being able to move siege (with mastery), at half walking speed.
    -siege that could be upgrade-able with more supplies with each tier having extra abilities (ie slightly more range, aoe). and health (or slow regen ). Since siege is cheap and disposable it makes it more valuable with supply and time

  • Skills like Guardian shield skill #5, Sanctuary, Feedback, Engi shield skills, Cata bubble, shield generators, etc. should give a buff that reduces siege damage.
    Don't just magically reduce siege damage by flipping a switch, I think thats what siege is suppose to do, high damage. instead give players the ability to defend against it.

    Buff Name: reduces siege damage by 10/15%
    Cata bubble and Shield Generator shield do not give any kind of protection against arrow cart.

  • LucianTheAngelic.7054LucianTheAngelic.7054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Siege is largely fine imo. If anything some quality of life updates to them would be nice. As some other posters have said, it adds more layers to WvW gameplay and is iconic for the game mode. Things like arrow carts should be impactful and useful. I don't think they need a nerf at the moment.

    As for any reworks to siege as a whole, I'd rather as much work as possible be put into the Alliance update so that you guys can roll that out ASAP. After that is done hopefully focus on new things to bring more variety to the game mode like the much needed 3rd Borderland. WvW hasn't really changed too much since launch and that's not necessarily great

  • CrimsonNeonite.1048CrimsonNeonite.1048 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 19, 2018

    Offensive Siege doesn't need more upgrades really, they're already quite strong, especially with masteries. The only problem I sort of have, is with offensive shields at times, if done correctly, they can overpower defensive siege and even block siege disablers.

  • Drinks.2361Drinks.2361 Member ✭✭✭

    @CrimsonNeonite.1048 said:
    Offensive Siege doesn't need more upgrades really, they're already quite strong, especially with masteries. The only problem I sort of have, is with offensive shields at times, if done correctly, they can overpower defensive siege and even block siege disablers.

    It's not a good sign that keeps rarely flip during the most active play times once they hit T3. Reset is fun & has a pile of players because nobody can turtle in a keep.
    This isn't fun for anyone

  • Coldtart.4785Coldtart.4785 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We don't want to make a change that would make siege useless.

    I have never once seen a situation that was made more fun by the presence of siege. Without some incredible overhauls I don't think it's likely that you will both improve the game and accomplish this objective. That said, the overhaul I have in mind would be to add more kinds of mobile artillery siege. In an RTS, if your opponent is turtling with base defences you don't send your workers up to their base to build turrets to fight their turrets; that would never work yet in WvW it's our only option. If defensive siege is placed where player skills can't hit it you have to build some kind of siege in a position that can be targeted by the defensive siege that's already built. In an RTS the solution to this would be to use artillery units that can strike from outside the range of static defences and move to confound return fire.

    Mobile weapons can of course give a huge advantage to a high population server because they can be stockpiled in safe areas then sent out to rush bases, so to limit this I'd consider the following: use mount physics to apply inertia and limited rates of turn to mobile siege, disallow mobile siege from using waypoints and apply ammo limits to their weapons that can only be reloaded by returning to an ally controlled structure (or possibly by using supply to reload them in some way). It might also be reasonable to add a kind of mobile siege that's good at destroying artillery but weak against players to add more counterplay options.

    Another thing I thought could be interesting would be siege aircraft. They would use similar physics to the griffon but with no height loss over time and infinite ability to climb. To prevent mesmers from simply flying one into an enemy structure and portalling a zerg in you would make it so that touching the ground is considered crashing, instantly killing the player unless they do it in a designated landing area such as an allied structure. Also, you could have AA siege weapons to make it difficult for aircraft to stay in an area and stricter ammo limits than ground siege.

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2018

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:
    Prolly would help to start with a goal in mind then. Example: "We want to increase player engagement. After noticing 50% of the players don't get to interact while sieging/being under siege. This is our priority."

    Since no clarification of goals were given I am going to operate under the above assumption for hypothetical changes. Lead by example, right? Regardless if I believe in this goal or not, let's call this hypothetical dev, Dave. He is going to make changes that lend themselves to this goal. For now, let's "borrow" ANET's balance format for a moment too. Dave will speak in quotes. Oh how I love to RP (I do. Look it up when you're on Mag or AG).

    13/13/1313 - Moremtober 13 Release Notes

    Nonexistentday

    "Hello, this is Dev Dave, and I am here to present the latest Siege Revision update. For this update, we're looking to increase player participation when in comes to siege in WuvWuv. In addition to specific siege equipment, we've evaluated acquisition, progression with respect to WvW Masteries, and objectives themselves that come into play.

    General

    Siege Masteries: We will be enabling all siege abilities by default. This should allow new players to participate on even footing without being shunned off of siege (or worse...kicked off!) all due to lacking the appropriate mastery.

    Siege Tiers: While in the past we had hoped to add a sense of progression from Normal siege into Superior, we noticed that the usage of so called "paper" siege has led to further negative reactions. This led to only Alpha Golems to be used more often than other Normal siege. In order to simplify this most important game play, we will only have 1 type of siege that will use the Normal siege supply amounts. The Guild Siege will be using our upcoming Guild Customization so Guilds can brand their identity on the battlefield (more on that soon). All of which will be purchasable from the usual vendors, and drop from the same boxes.

    Siege Times: In the past, a player would be able to reset the time by simply interacting with siege. We are no longer allowing that, and will set siege to the average play time of 2 hours. The previous method benefited servers with more coverage. While this won't solve coverage (that we will look into later) it will give more value to supply, and its strategical usage with the moment to moment game play. Incidentally, this allows those "builders" out there to participate more often!

    Siege Traps and Tricks: After going over the effects, we feel most of these are in the right place right now, especially for out manned situations. We are adding however the "Marked" de-buff on the "Stealth Disruptor Trap" in order to test, and increase its usage on the battle field. We hope that this means scouts will have further tools to aid them. We believe it will also allow further venturing outside of objectives with peace of mind given by this trap.

    Siege turning: We will be increasing all turn speeds in order to help increase the pacing of this style of game play. This should also help in more reactive moments of play.

    Objectives: We have noticed that Tier 3 objectives can often go ignored for longer durations even during prime time. This is not intentional. We want players to try, and so we will be reducing the health of Tier 3 gates and walls. Conversely, we have seen Tier 1 objectives targeted more often due to their ease. So we will be raising the health of Tier 1 gates and walls. Given this, we hope participation in harder targets ensues.

    Tactivators: We will be seriously looking into these in future updates, as some go against the goals presented above. This conflicts because a singe player interaction greatly impacts the experience of many players at once.

    Siege Equipment

    • Shield Gen: We have discussed internally if the skills on this piece of siege should be split among other siege in order to expand strategy. Such as, Force Dome would be given to Golems or Catapults, and maybe Ballistae could halt a push with a Force Wall. Perhaps on a separate day we would test those changes. Unfortunately its current form goes against our goals, since it nullifies opponent interactions too much. We will be reworking its abilities to only block specific number of attacks. In this case X siege projectiles, before dissipating. This also means we will be lowering its cooldown to compensate, and giving a beneficial ending effect.

      • Force Dome: In additon to its current effects this grants Protection, Stability, and Resistance on expiration. This effect ends after blocking X siege projectiles.
      • Force Wall: In addition to its current effects this grants Protection, Stability, and Resistance on expiration. This effect ends after blocking X projectiles.
    • Arrow Cart: The goal behind this equipment is anti-personnel, which it does effectively, however we no longer intend for it to be effective against siege equipment. Instead of constant damage we will be switching its attacks into more burst to allow the opponents opportunity to engage. We hope that the increased burst damage, and utility can be coordinated to still give invaders pause. By adding more utility attacks we're allowing more player interactions (on both sides) than in the previous Arrow Cart. The cooldowns are tentative as we will be watching them to reduce ground aoe clutter.

      • Brutal Volley: Two pulses of X damage inflicting Vulnerability. Damage is double for stationary targets. No damage to siege. Cooldown 20s
      • Punishing Volley: Two pulses of X damage removing Resistance, and applying Cripple. No damage to siege. Cooldown 20s
      • Broadhead Volley: Two pulses of X damage removing Stability, and applying Daze. No damage to siege. Cooldown 20s
      • Toxic Unveiling Volley: Two pulses of X damage applying Reveal, and Poison. No damage to siege. Cooldown 20s
      • Barbed Volley: Two pulses of X damage applying Bleeding. No damage to siege. Cooldown 20s
    • Catapult: Despite players still using them in close proximity to walls we feel this piece of equipment does what it sets out to do: siege walls. Where it falls short is Gravel Shot. We will be removing this temporarily. Their shield is short enough in duration it will go unchanged. In an effort of experimentation, we will be adding a new shot in hopes of players using it at range in conjunction with newer builds involving fall damage reduction. Yes, we are serious. Just don't be blocked by a shield gen! Disastrous. That or you can ignore Dev Dave on this one.

      • Fire Personnel: Climb aboard, and launch yourself a distance depending on strength. Fall damage inflicted upon impact equal to the percentage of the shot's power.
    • Trebuchet: This equipment is in a bad spot. We have spotted it primarily functioning as a defensive measure than our intended usage as offensive siege. First it was being used behind gates. The second to fix is the cow ability stalling combat too effectively, and also in a defensive manner with little counter. We are going to focus this siege on offense. This also means removing the Healing Oasis ability in the process.

      • Primary Fire: Should now deal increased damage to objectives. It will no longer drain supply from enemy depots. (Will not damage behind gates, like catapults)
      • Rotting Cow: Will no longer drain supply from enemies, but will drain supply from enemy depots at similar rate.
      • Removing Healing Oasis to Razed Field: Creates a fire field that burns enemies.
    • Ballista: We have seen this used in both offence and defense. At the moment we feel this is in a relatively good spot. It is siege effective at destroying stationary targets. We will increase its siege damage across the board, in order to compensate for the increase in siege health points in a previous update. Where it falls outside this intent is with Antiair Bolt, but its usage has been niche and only seen in a few objectives.

    • Golems: Given the mobility of Golems, we feel both versions have their uses for sieging objectives. However, we have been noticing them being used as sponges for contesting objectives. This isn't a use case we wish to see.The Golems will no longer contest circles. We won't be changing their shields in this update.
    • Canon: The consensus we have reached is players are unable to stay on them when under pressure. We will be applying a defiance bar to help give defenders a chance of using this (in addition to the now default mastery buffs).
    • Oil: Like the canons we will be giving a temporary defiance bar to players in addition to previous buffs.
    • Mortar: Currently this operates as long range defensive siege, and mostly excels at this. Especially in keeps. No changes seem necessary at the present.

    Improvements

    • Plugged the holes in meshes for staircases, and battlements for Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 3, objective fort pieces.
    • P.S. Rams are gucci. Word Limits. Keke.

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • Shield gens are absolute AIDS for all the reasons people have already mentioned, and they should not be able to block disablers; seriously, why should they?

    On the other hand, there's little incentive for using them defensively due to no participation/XP rewards, which is extra sucky considering we have to man them at the very likely risk of getting mes pulled off the wall into eleventy million AoEs and scourge shades.

  • Silver.2076Silver.2076 Member ✭✭✭

    I think the siege weapons could use a lot of qol.

    Timings - it would be good, especially with the shield generators, if other players could see what the CDs of the others are, so that they can adjust to it, even without announcing. If this should also be visible for enemies, try it out.

    Cooldown - After a shot, there should be no general cooldown until you can do something else. Extends fire, a recharge time, but I think it would be more fluid if the catapult could spin or another ability could recharge right after a shot. short, makes the use more fluid, but keeps it as slow :)

    Skins - yes, I would wish for skins in the shop for siege weapons! Of course, only placed on the guild weapons, yes, push the guilds, let them do more advertising for themselves.

    Visibility - I think, if we already have the radar system, it should also report enemy siege. So you can see where and how much of it is attacking it. Yeah, no more sneaky actions with it.

    Sneaky action - or yes, but different! If "individual" players want to enter a tower quietly - this should not be possible in a fortress - they should be able to do so without siege weapons, i.e. with little noise and conspicuousness. Give them a new siege weapon with which they can crawl through one by one and only be discovered when they are inside. Talk tunnel digging or climbing!

    Okay, that sounds too crazy, I better stop;) But in principle, makes the weapons more comfortable without changing their previous functionality and takes more care of the guilds - even with regard to the siege weapons!

  • zerorogue.9410zerorogue.9410 Member ✭✭✭

    I still got a big page of WvW suggestions kicking around that i plan to post one day. Might as well post the siege part here:

    Arrow carts

    • increased damage(+20-40%)
    • Skills now work mechanically the same as stampede of arrows

      • you cast in a direction and the arrows fall one box aoe at a time in a line.
    • aoe line can go down edges but not up. (such as cliffs or walls)

    This makes Arrow carts far more deadly for unobservant and static enemies while rewarding those who have the skills to outmaneuver the attacks. Removing the ability to fire upwards allows for more strategic play and gives ballistas(with changes below) a better place.

    Trebuchet

    • Treb shots ping where they land.

      • Only treb user can see this.
    • Damage numbers show up always, even if you can not see the targets.

    • fix treb shot graphics not moving/landing the same place as the real shot.
    • stop treb shots from cliping through walls.

    Trebs are pretty much fine mechanically. The big problem is the fact we have no idea where our shots are landing in long range battles or if we even hit anything. Adding this and bug fixes would make trebs perfect.

    Ballista

    • 3rd rank upgrade is now Change arc unlock.
    • new 5 skill: change arc. Changes skills to have either a fast straight path or a slower high arc that can go over obstacles.
    • old speed boost is applied to straight path skills.
    • arc skills do extra damage to all siege
    • takes extra damage from siege(superior cata can one hit it)
    • straight shots use a straight path for shots(if you can select it, have los, and it's not moving; then the shot hits every time)

    I find ballistas are really out shined by arrow carts and trebs for siege removal. Additionally a lot of shots on the ballistas are operate weirdly or have trouble with things above them. This actually makes the 3rd rank upgrade a hindrance in many situations. Giving the ability to arc your shots gives you the ability to make sure no obstacle will interfere. Increasing its weakness to other siege makes it a wonderful fast strike or ambush weapon, while being easy to counter expected deployments.

    Catapults

    • cata shots ping where they land.

      • Only cata user can see this.
    • Launches targets hit by boulder.

    • Gravel shot uses same mechanics as boulder
    • Gravel does more damage to siege.
    • Shots needs los to hit.(no more splash damage through walls)
    • Increase time for rocks to despawn

    Catapults have turned into the wall version of flame rams. Giving them a launch and extra siege damage makes them useful for defense again. Fixing the splash damage and the issue of rocks disappearing when traveling for a long time will allow them better use on the battlefield.

    Shield generator

    • No more hot requirement.(seriously, this)
    • Force ball.

      • When it hits the ground it will always bounce away from generator in straight line 6 times.
      • Ball will end early if it hits a wall.
      • Inclines will reduce number of bounces.
      • Increased radius of Aegis Force Ball Applies to 500.
    • Force Wall

      • grants 2 stacks of stability for 9 seconds for all allies that pass through.
      • Only one application per ally.
    • Force Dome

      • no longer blocks siege nor grants stability
      • channels once you cast it.
      • grants Barrier to allies Inside bubble every 3s.
      • Shield Generator Mastery Rank 5 Now increases Barrier given.
    • Added a new skill Force Matrix

      • Channeled skill: Hold to create a 800(1200 traited) dome around the shield generator.
      • Lasts 9 seconds at 18 second recharge.
      • recharge starts after releasing key
      • This dome only blocks all siege weapons.
      • Dome does nothing to player damage.
      • Dome is visible at same range as treb shots.

    Shield gens need the most work by far. First get rid of the hot requirement, I can't even remember how many times I tried to get someone on a shield gen just to have people say they didn't have hot. This needs to go away. It’s almost been 3 years, you can get rid of this.

    The main issue with the gens is there cheesy. There good for only very very specific things. When it comes to other use they are useless. First the forceball is completely unreliable or predictable, giving it a expected pattern will allow players to use it more effectively. Increasing the range of the aegis will also make it useful in fights.

    Force wall can be useful on enemy approaches but often becomes useless once the battle has become static. Giving it the ability to grant stability allows you to support your team in fights.

    Finally the biggest issue with shield gens are they are tedious and boring to use in defense of trebs. Splitting the force dome skill into two will allow the dome to be used for player combat while the new force matrix allows shield gen users to copy the treb users in holding one key to continuously defend a target. The split also makes choosing between using an excellent pvp skill vs defending against siege attacks.

  • A great test would be to have an event with no siege, only rams. I would bet most players would have more fun fighting with their skills rather than botting an AC! after that ask about siege.
    another fix might be to do 70% less damage on players and and full damage on siege vs siege.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 19, 2018

    @Warlord Lu Bu.7905 said:
    Siege should have ammo, and you refill that ammo with supply. Makes siege far more strategic and less spammable.

    This is why I suggested removing refresh and replacing it with a hp decay and repair mechanic. Its basicly the same effect as ammo resupply, but its much more visual for all sides and as a bonus makes "neglected" siege much weaker. It also avoid any logic problems (what kind of ammo would an alpha golem use? Punch ammo? Do different shots have different ammo? You would have enter each siege to check ammo, etc) and simply streamline it to something we already have - the hitpoint bar. Easy to implement, easy to see status even when not in the siege, easy to understand.

    Btw for those asking "well how can I repair or use the siege, we only got one action button!" Thats simple - the siege repair mastery would use the right skillbar for its abilities.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Draeyon.4392Draeyon.4392 Member ✭✭
    edited May 19, 2018

    Reduce Arrowcart damage to players by 50% or reduce the number of people it hits down to 5 or 10.

    ALSO, Please for the love of Quaggan have a look at placement of mortars on Desert Borderlands. On Stoic Rampart alone I dont think they I have seen anyone trying to use them.
    See screenshot for reference. What is this supposed to hit?

  • Shining One.1635Shining One.1635 Member ✭✭✭

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:
    Prolly would help to start with a goal in mind then. Example: "We want to increase player engagement. After noticing 50% of the players don't get to interact while sieging/being under siege. This is our priority."

    How about giving defenders on walls pulsing stability. Defenders can then stand on the edge and fight back against the besiegers. The besiegers in turn can fight against the defenders.

  • I just skimmed this so probably a double post.
    AC's can only be built inside structures. Not in open field situations.
    I also saw someone say put a % on charge up bars, and I second that.

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AllNightPlayer.1286 said:

    auto-repairing for structural siege weapons

    Since we didn’t get our repair hammers, how about auto-repairing burning oil pots, cannons, and mortars once the objective reached tier 3? (like the water gates from green world lowlands)
    It’s always “fun” to stick with the 5 % cannon from the siege 1 hour ago. :s

    The auto-repair should be something like 5—10 % for every 5—15 min.
    My first thought was, that the auto-repair only applies, if the objective isn’t under siege (white swords). But getting an objective into attack mode is much to easy and already exploited constantly, so I scrapped this idea.

    Interesting, I would suggest tying the repair to yaks like every yak delivered, repair the damaged sieges by certain %.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    change nothing

    add siege canons.

    allow us to pull rams cata bali but speed slow

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    Interesting, I would suggest tying the repair to yaks like every yak delivered, repair the damaged sieges by certain %.

    It already relies heavily on the dolyak system, since the objective has to reach tier 3 first. If only dolyaks repair sieges, the system becomes pointless for small servers, who already have a hard time to defend and can’t protect any camps nor even escort dolyaks.

  • Notjes.7182Notjes.7182 Member ✭✭

    Fighting against siege is NEVER fun. And since big player numbers bring more siege its getting worse.
    Everyone who had the disgusting pleasure to play against the PVE servers knows this.

    So for the love of god and all that is holy:
    REMOVE ALL SIEGE AND ALL DOORS on at least one map. THANKS!

    This way the hardcore pve servers can pve in peace and the wvw players can have some nice fights.

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AllNightPlayer.1286 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    Interesting, I would suggest tying the repair to yaks like every yak delivered, repair the damaged sieges by certain %.

    It already relies heavily on the dolyak system, since the objective has to reach tier 3 first. If only dolyaks repair sieges, the system becomes pointless for small servers, who already have a hard time to defend and can’t protect any camps nor even escort dolyaks.

    Normally supply is required to repair things, applicable to gate and wall. Therefore, not requiring any forms of supply and yet siege able to heal naturally is abit too much. Yak brings in supply, I think is reasonable to use yak as a basis for auto restoration.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 19, 2018

    On second note, note sure what's everyone's problem with ac. It is anti personnel siege, it has been so since first year, before shield generator even come to existence. Now, we got sg, yet it isn't enough as a counter?

    I do think the ballista need some fixing. Technically, ballista range is 3000 and with mastery it is 3500. Canon is 3750. Therefore it is weird that ballista can hit cannon at 4000 range due to ballista projectile not disappearing beyond 3500. This is unreasonable solely because there are other forms of range attacks and usually they simply disappear once go beyond their allowed range. Even if there are proejctiles that dosn't disappear, the fact that it can fire a shot beyond 3500 range without the system saying it is out of range means the skill is in essence broken and not working as described.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • SweetPotato.7456SweetPotato.7456 Member ✭✭✭

    Sieges are often more useful from and attacker point, especially if you are on a mostly downtime server. But. we not going to discuss players coverage here, but it cannot be discuss without mentioning players coverage either.

    this post talks about the Shield Generators and how they are not functioning for a defender vs attacker

    Towers like Quentin Lake, WildCreek Run, Klovan, Anzaliaz, Ogre Watch and Durios are mostly always undersiege from the server that hold SMC reason being trebbing is easy when you have SMC, you build a treb, you take aim, you hold down the 2 keys and you goes do some housework, when you return the wall is down and the tower is flipped.

    fault 1
    First the defender have to have enough supply in the tower, being a tower that is constantly being flipped, it is always only holding 100 supplies, enough for you to build some shields, then there are the uncontrollable factors of players draining supplies, so you are lucky if you managed 2 shields up, you alternate between them and you run from shiled 1 to shiled 2 countering someone who may be afk, if they aren't afk, onces they pin point your shiled, it will be easilly treb down becase shiled is shielding the wall, it can't shield itself, and then you are left with no supply and no shield, so, the wall is inevitably taken down at some point and you get 0 pip for building the shields, and defending the tower.

    fault 2
    when you shiled , you need to target, everytime the treb/cata etc hits, but its not so for the attackers, one only needs to aim once and then let it do its own thing.

    Fault 3
    The vulnerable area of a wall is too wide, if you build a shiled that can cover that area, 100% of the time, it can be reach by enemy players and be taken down even before you have a chance to defend, so you find a nice spot to build the shiled but the distance of coverage isn't reachable to counter the attacking fire, whereas someone using a treb can and always will build it far away as long as they can hit that ground within the vunerable area.

    fault 4
    usually for a low population server or a server experiencing a low population hours. when an attack come, they come with lots sieges, and you have few people to defend, the recharge time of the shileds just can't hold the tower. no way at all, so you think, okay, i will take down the sieges instead of shielding, but, because 1) theres a zerg, 2) catas has shields of their own, 3) ontop of that they have shileds build far away and hinding from sight shielding the sieges. yes, you just kinda give up by then. HEHE

    The conclusion is : shield is pretty much useless for defender vs attacker.

  • SweetPotato.7456SweetPotato.7456 Member ✭✭✭

    The taking over of a Tower/Keep vs Sieges.
    Supply is a very important part of WvW that is why when a tower / keep is being take over, need to be able to take over enemy sieges.

    What to do:
    1) Add passive improvement Sabotage Sieges
    2) once a tower/keep is taken over, players can use a "scroll" like the siege disable to take control of the enemy built sieges.

  • cobbah.3102cobbah.3102 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 19, 2018

    Arrow Carts are fine as is
    Catapaults need to have a set range so cannot be placed against walls ,or dumb spots like hills down the slope and fired into solid rock and kill walls
    Trebuchets range needs a decrease so if SMC holders want to take towers they need to attack and not use siege bots to continually hit towers (boring) and then run in with a blob for no effort.
    Remove shield Gens not required
    Ballista need a fix as mentioned before like tripod to lift so doesnt hit wall
    Rams are fine as is
    Lets just throw Dragon Banners in the mix needs a fix ,cannot roam with them for defence of structures only not an open field offensive weapon set a range from structures for use

  • SweetPotato.7456SweetPotato.7456 Member ✭✭✭

    Let the treb operator knows where on the mini map they are hitting, specifically for Trebuchet. The changes of the trebuchet operation in Battle of Kyhlo is good . maybe apply that, that would end the "auto-trebbing" from smc .

  • penguin.9271penguin.9271 Member ✭✭

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    On second note, note sure what's everyone's problem with ac. It is anti personnel siege, it has been so since first year, before shield generator even come to existence. Now, we got sg, yet it isn't enough as a counter?

    I do think the ballista need some fixing. Technically, ballista range is 3000 and with mastery it is 3500. Canon is 3750. Therefore it is weird that ballista can hit cannon at 4000 range due to ballista projectile not disappearing beyond 3500. This is unreasonable solely because there are other forms of range attacks and usually they simply disappear once go beyond their allowed range. Even if there are proejctiles that dosn't disappear, the fact that it can fire a shot beyond 3500 range without the system saying it is out of range means the skill is in essence broken and not working as described.

    Of course you won't have a problem with arrow carts. You and your guild abuses it everyday, you guys can't play without it. It's part of your culture just like the rest of the siege humpers who are defending or even asking arrow carts to be buffed.

  • SweetPotato.7456SweetPotato.7456 Member ✭✭✭

    Unfair advantages of attackers at borderland attacking Bay.
    The trebuchet fire coming from the south west camps (bluevale / redvale) are not block by invisible wall/ barrier.
    where as from the keep to the camp there is an invisible wall, therefore making it impossible to counter treb the attackers.

    see picture
    https://goo.gl/aPNLCw

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ok please consider in making the cannons, mortars and oil either indestructible or with better placements. Because right now when they matter the most they are instagibbed by an incoming zerg so in that case they are useless now. Give them a mastery that allows shielding perhaps, you are also instagibbed when you happen to be on a mortar or cannon if you do not lightning reflex out of them.
    After they are destroyed it will take forever for them to be up again.. Can this also be changed?

    Like someone else already stated, the siege in the desert Borderlands are a bit weird sometimes. Not just the mortars on stoic, but the cannons also seem to even be less useful as they are on other keeps. Fire keep cannons on the outer are bothered by bad line of sight, and at the inner I cant even imagine why you would use them because they cannot hit anything.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 19, 2018

    @SweetPotato.7456 said:
    Unfair advantages of attackers at borderland attacking Bay.
    The trebuchet fire coming from the south west camps (bluevale / redvale) are not block by invisible wall/ barrier.
    where as from the keep to the camp there is an invisible wall, therefore making it impossible to counter treb the attackers.

    see picture
    https://goo.gl/aPNLCw

    The entire point is to call for reinforcement and go out and fight the enemy, if you cant counter-siege them. It happens. That's why its called a siege. Its not an issue, it's quite literally the purpose of the game. It should never be possible to siege bunker everywhere.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    Arrow Cart Revision

    Skill 1 - Same damage to siege, no damage to players but instead gives them a stacking debuff that increases physical damage from players by x%.

    Skill 2 - Same damage to siege, no damage to players but instead gives them a stacking debuff that increases condition duration from conditions done by players by x%.

    Skill 3 - Same damage to siege, no damage to players but instead removes a boon.

    Skill 4 - Reveals stealthed targets and increases boon duration of allies affected by x seconds. This is the only damaging AC skill and should have quite the cooldown.

    Arrow Cart Mastery:

    Rank 1 - Same
    Rank 2 - Increase damage to siege by 25% and Increases the debuff effectiveness of skills to y%.
    Rank 3 - Increases the boons removed by skill 3 to (X) and it now also drains supply.
    Rank 4 - Same
    Rank 5 - Unlocks Skill 4 and increases the duration of debuffs by skills 1 and 2 by x seconds.

    Normal ACs do less damage to siege, lower debuff effectiveness and duration than Superior versions.

    ACs will now be more of a support siege and people would still need to fight and not just stay in them. The debuffs are still a threat and standing in its AOE for a long time can still be dangerous.

    This of course still needs some tweaking of numbers and cooldowns since it can be overpowered in open field fights.

    Apathy is death.

  • guildabd.6529guildabd.6529 Member ✭✭
    edited May 19, 2018

    Honestly, what's with the complaints about arrow carts dealing too much damage? Since when did you got full kill with an ac? Those things hit like a wet noodle, and usually down 1 or 2 at best.
    If anything, arrow carts should be buffed, not nerfed.

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Here is what I would like to see:

    1.) Remove all siege except rams and catas and arrow carts. Make catas only do damage to walls. Make ACs only do damage to siege. Game instantly becomes more fighting oriented instead of sit on a wall and build siege oriented.

    2.) Let players do normal damage to gates and walls so it's possible for a large group to plow through without having to build a bunch of siege.

    3.) No more auto upgrades, go back to making people pay for them if they really want them.

    These three changes by themselves would speed up the game so much and force these siege monkeys to actually get off a wall and fight if they really want to protect their objectives. They will lose a lot because most of them have spent way way too much time afking on trebs but over time they will remember the glory of combat.

  • cobbah.3102cobbah.3102 Member ✭✭✭

    @Israel.7056 said:
    Here is what I would like to see:

    1.) Remove all siege except rams and catas and arrow carts. Make catas only do damage to walls. Make ACs only do damage to siege. Game instantly becomes more fighting oriented instead of sit on a wall and build siege oriented.

    2.) Let players do normal damage to gates and walls so it's possible for a large group to plow through without having to build a bunch of siege.

    3.) No more auto upgrades, go back to making people pay for them if they really want them.

    These three changes by themselves would speed up the game so much and force these siege monkeys to actually get off a wall and fight if they really want to protect their objectives. They will lose a lot because most of them have spent way way too much time afking on trebs but over time they will remember the glory of combat.

    Hmmm sounds like a blob server request go figure

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