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Nerf Mesmer pull


Nimon.7840

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@Nimon.7840 said:

@Garrus.7403 said:Mesmer pull is fine. You have enough advantage if you are defending stuff. Just use a stunbreak or stability. Also I think the pull is quite visible. There is also not so much mesmers around and pull is one of their best tools for fights and siege.

The pull is almost invisible to people on the wall. Because mesmers place it on the side of that wall. So you have to watch top of the wall, side of the wall and enemy?

It's pretty hard defending an objective with low man, because meteors and scourges torch 5.

Firebrand has only 240 radius on his pull with 3/4 seconds casttime (8seconds cd). That's ok and cannot pull people over the whole wall.

Mesmer has 600 radius with 1/4 seconds casttime (25 seconds cd)But with continuum split it's only 12.5 seconds ( as you can cast it 2 times) also mesmer can buff alacrity to lower the cd.

So I definetly think it needs a nerf.

It's not just a 1/4 second cast time. Once you cast the temporal curtain, there is another CD before you can activate the pull.

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@MiniMe.1960 said:

@MiniMe.1960 said:How can one get owned by such an obvious skill? Ever heard of stability/dodge? L2p victim!!!

What is "obvious" when it's placed on the back/invisible side of the wall? It's undetectable, and you can't run around with stability up 100% of the time "just in case".

sound, and for dropping one siege disabler you don't need more than 3 seconds

That's just not possible. When 30 people cast spells and so on to hear that small sound of the pull.And 3 seconds to put down disabler? You are already pulled down and dead with 0.25 seconds (+ a little bit more for reactivation) casttime 600 range pull

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@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:Mesmer pull is fine. You can hear the curtain when it's dropped and Dodge it. You're just bad. Since it will effect siege users I bet anet will nerf it since they love their siege humpers.

Audio cue alone is not sufficient for the deaf or people with hearing issues or who do not use game sound for whatever reason. Every mechanic that requires a dodge to negate needs an always-visible screen presence.

Are we going to make all the skills deaf friendly? How can the deaf hear the portal they can't see? Better nerf that too.. My Lord this board is terrible.

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@"Garrus.7403" said:Mesmer pull is fine. You have enough advantage if you are defending stuff. Just use a stunbreak or stability. Also I think the pull is quite visible. There is also not so much mesmers around and pull is one of their best tools for fights and siege.

I knew this thread would quickly get "It's fine, don't nerf" but this was unexpected. You have to man wall siege at the constant risk of instagib from mes pull into chain CC+AOEs while the offense side with their 5-10 catas can hide in the safety of their perma bubbles anyway. What's that? A siege disabler? Blocked, and now you are pulled off the wall into insta death because 600 diameter. What advantage is there for the defenders, really?

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lol, the only thing Focus has going for it is temporal curtain/into the void, which in any case has been overcome by power creep and passive anti-cc since HoT and PoF given how unlikely it is to cc anyone with the pull in a fight (in an actual fight on the ground, not pulling people off walls which is its main use now). To add to that it's nowhere near as powerful as it used to be when the pull could be instantly activated, before they slapped the 1s ICD on into the void - that's plenty of time to react. Nerf that any further and it'll be a dead weapon.

Before anything else iWarden needs some sort of buff to make it relevant as unlike every other phantasm since the rework this one is arguably worse than before.

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Mesmer pulls don't need a nerf.

To actually pull someone from a ledge, you have to place the pull correctly and it's easy to dodge and easily countered.It's not really an issue if you play smart and learn to place your siege. Also, siege fighting xDIt's a L2P issue.

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I would argue that more people sit on siege because of pulls. You're (generally) safer from pulls sitting on an arrow cart a few steps down from the top than standing on the edge of the wall using your player skills. If you want less people sitting on siege, then make the walls not suicide to stand on. I'd much prefer to stand on the wall using my player skills instead of using an arrow cart, but that's not an option because of skills like this.

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About the only change I'd be okay with is adding line of sight to the line, so at least a portion of the line has to be visible on top of the wall.The thing about that skill is that you never know when they're going to execute the pull, so relying on a dodge is kind of meaningless.

So long as you're not on the edge of the wall it shouldn't pull you off -- so have your hand on that dodge key when you see them throwing aoe's up on the wall and if there's a whole bunch perhaps backing off for a few moments would be advisable.

The last thing this game needs is for it to be easier for people to sit on siege inside structures all day.

~ Kovu

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@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@Garrus.7403 said:Mesmer pull is fine. You have enough advantage if you are defending stuff. Just use a stunbreak or stability. Also I think the pull is quite visible. There is also not so much mesmers around and pull is one of their best tools for fights and siege.

The pull is almost invisible to people on the wall. Because mesmers place it on the side of that wall. So you have to watch top of the wall, side of the wall and enemy?

It's pretty hard defending an objective with low man, because meteors and scourges torch 5.

Firebrand has only 240 radius on his pull with 3/4 seconds casttime (8seconds cd). That's ok and cannot pull people over the whole wall.

Mesmer has 600 radius with 1/4 seconds casttime (25 seconds cd)But with continuum split it's only 12.5 seconds ( as you can cast it 2 times) also mesmer can buff alacrity to lower the cd.

So I definetly think it needs a nerf.

It's not just a 1/4 second cast time. Once you cast the temporal curtain, there is another CD before you can activate the pull.

To add to that,Why would anyone use CS on a pull?Their are so many more important skills to blow CS on, I'm having a really hard time even justifying the reasoning behind blowing a skill with the cd of CS on a pull. Like this doesn't even sound practical or even smart.

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@Shining One.1635 said:I would argue that more people sit on siege because of pulls. You're (generally) safer from pulls sitting on an arrow cart a few steps down from the top than standing on the edge of the wall using your player skills. If you want less people sitting on siege, then make the walls not suicide to stand on. I'd much prefer to stand on the wall using my player skills instead of using an arrow cart, but that's not an option because of skills like this.

Use stab? Stun break? There is no reason for you not to slot a stunbreak in WvW.

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@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@MiniMe.1960 said:How can one get owned by such an obvious skill? Ever heard of stability/dodge? L2p victim!!!

What is "obvious" when it's placed on the back/invisible side of the wall? It's undetectable, and you can't run around with stability up 100% of the time "just in case".

sound, and for dropping one siege disabler you don't need more than 3 seconds

Guess you've chosen to ignore what I said about deaf/hearing-impared players, and last I checked, mesmers weren't considered siege.

Even if you don't hear the curtain audio cue there's always the hint of the mesmer heading toward the wall. 600 range isnt much, that guy below you heading to your spot is probably either a mesmer or another class that can aoe and you should probably move. And if its the whole blob heading to your part of the wall so you cant check classes i'd assume pain is coming......

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If you don't have free cc block, aegis, stab, stunbreaks, teleports, invulnerabilities or... hearing, you can always throw and arrow cart on the steps or next to the little ramps and stand your character behind tiny ledges so when a mesmer tries to pull you, you don't move. Honestly I go for disrupting people on siege more so than actually trying to kill them whenever I bother swapping in focus to do into the void.

If I do swap in the focus, I do actually attempt to cs it as there really isn't anything else to cs while waiting 5-10min for 3 catas to chip down a t3 wall that has 3 sup arrow carts defending it and oh...they just activated invulnerabilities fortifications for 1min. Oh how cute now they are using 300+ supply to repair it while the rest of their server are stacking inside and the wall is still 20%. Just pray that if we do crack it open they don't have 5 sup arrow carts on us and remember to activate chilling fog...

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Focus 4 pull is fine. What people are not understanding is what happens after.The pull itself will pull you from the siege to edge of wall where enemy are waiting to aoe bomb you "on the edge of the wall". If you don't have a stunbreak, well thats your fault.What experience "Chronos" will do is what OP is complaining about cos on most walls, you can't just simply walk off the walls, you need to jump up over it.This is where a chrono dumps a Gravity well and with float in that skill, you can be pulled off the wall while you in the air and into the zerg.and those saying to listen to sound...lol. There would be atleast 4-5 minimum catas, 2-3 shield gen, other players casting skills, so yeah good luck hearing that.Those that have jumped up on the edge to throw a disabler, well you better have stab on otherwise any nerco, DH, engi, thief can pull you then.

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@"Sleepwalker.1398" said:Focus 4 pull is fine. What people are not understanding is what happens after.The pull itself will pull you from the siege to edge of wall where enemy are waiting to aoe bomb you "on the edge of the wall". If you don't have a stunbreak, well thats your fault.What experience "Chronos" will do is what OP is complaining about cos on most walls, you can't just simply walk off the walls, you need to jump up over it.This is where a chrono dumps a Gravity well and with float in that skill, you can be pulled off the wall while you in the air and into the zerg.and those saying to listen to sound...lol. There would be atleast 4-5 minimum catas, 2-3 shield gen, other players casting skills, so yeah good luck hearing that.Those that have jumped up on the edge to throw a disabler, well you better have stab on otherwise any nerco, DH, engi, thief can pull you then.

600 radius pull is overkill for wvw sure if it pulled players who were too close off the wall it would be ok but with such a massive radius its pulling people behind the wall as long they are on the same elevation, i say drop it to 300

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I'd be fine with it if it didn't ignore the lips on walls or allow people to get literally pulled straight through the walls themselves.

If I'm standing behind the lip of the wall, thus LoS'ing myelf, I shouldn't be able to be pulled down, just pulled into the lip, just like how it is if I get pulled by any other pull in the core game.

If people are standing above the lip, they deserve to be pulled, sure.

Though fixing the visual so that it can't be hidden by placing it on the side/inside the wall would also be a nice QoL buff that nobody should take issue with. Other pulls have obvious tells.

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You know, I fell for that mesmers pull a couple of times. Then I learned to respect certain groups that use it and change my strat. Hasn't caught me since.

Ran with those same groups and I can tell you they only look for the noobs that obviously have no clue.

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@Kitta.3657 said:

@Shining One.1635 said:I would argue that more people sit on siege because of pulls. You're (generally) safer from pulls sitting on an arrow cart a few steps down from the top than standing on the edge of the wall using your player skills. If you want less people sitting on siege, then make the walls not suicide to stand on. I'd much prefer to stand on the wall using my player skills instead of using an arrow cart, but that's not an option because of skills like this.

Use stab? Stun break? There is no reason for you not to slot a stunbreak in WvW.

What good does a stun break do? Get pulled, use a stunbreak -- you don't teleport back to where you were before the pull.

If you're arguing to use lighning-fast twitch reflexes to break a pull in the .05 second window it takes from the pull starting to it ending...HAHAHA, wtf.

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It's absolutely fine. I can't fathom people having troubles with this or it being a particularly big concern when a single Meteor Shower could just remove all the siege you have on a wall or cause everyone to have to move away from the wall anyway.

Just because a thing happened to you and made your time more difficult, doesn't mean it needs a nerf. Pulling people from siege to disrupt the pressure that a siege weapon pumps out has been a valid tactic since the game released.

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@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@Justine.6351 said:Skills like Temporal Curtain are necessary for WvW. Its a unique play maker to briefly disrupt people on siege or make them explode in other allies' aoe.

If you are on the wall and see a bunch of marks you should probably anticipate having to negate a temporal curtain pull (into the void). It has a 1 second delay and makes an obnoxious noise. Yes, I actually know the name of the roll-over skill for Temporal Curtain. Its called learning.

The thing is it can pull people from the 8th-11th step from top of inner part of stairs - that is no longer a part of the top of the wall. It pulls you from the stairs to the topside of the wall and drags you to the edge. It has a bigger reach than it should. Sure, top of the wall, no problem, but not at the places I've talked about.

It also overrides Stun breaks like thief shadow step, so you get pulled step away, and it rips you back in to your inevitable death.

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@Nimon.7840 said:As said above. It rlly gets out of hand. There are always mesmers that pull you from one side of the wall down on the other side. 600 range is just too much.We'll you could say necro pull is 1200 range. But you need LoS.You cannot pull someone from one edge of a wall over the whole wall down on the other side.

Mesmer can. Because no LoS required.That makes defending objectives pretty hard since people can be pulled out of their defending siege weapons pretty easily.

the solution is pretty simple, dont stand on top of the wall fight like a man on the ground or you know, use stability u know that boon that prevents u from getting CCd?

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@"Soggy Biscuit.9372" said:You have to man wall siege at the constant risk of instagib from mes pullIt's not "insta" and the risk isn't constant. Curtain has a 1/4 cast time, there is a 1s cooldown before shattering it, and the Void pull has a range of 450. Properly placed siege prevents getting pulled off the wall in a large fraction of situations. And if that's not enough, the mesmer has to get close enough to be under attack from the defender's allies.

There's no reason to expect that using an AC should be a no-risk proposition. Proper defense, like proper offense, uses a combination of tools.

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