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Thanks Jon, that gives us some information to work with. Good luck on the opengl front, I know all too well the 'fun' of a program I maintain relying on something that goes into deprecated or removed status.

Even worse is when something fundamental will change and having no idea what it will break so no idea of the time to fix it. But that is dev griping so would probably bore most people here.

Interesting that you are unable to replicate the high sierra issues but so many other people are. Would logs of some sort be helpful maybe?

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I do genuinely feel bad for Jon Olson, since even though there are probably very few Mac players relative to PC players, the OpenGL Mac Client was so obviously a labor of love for him. Hopefully there's no hard feelings between him, us Mac users and Apple.

I guess moving forward there are three options Arenanet can make:

Regardless of what Arenanet chooses, I wish Jon Olson and his team the best of luck with the Mac client. I may be a programmer, but I couldn't write OpenGL, Vulkan or Metal to save my kitten, so it's definitely a massive decision either way. While I can't code Mac-compatible graphics, if you ever need a Tyrian who is willing to test a Vulkan, MoltenVK or Metal Alpha/Beta (regardless of OS), you can sign me up!

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@"iPlayForFree.1524" said:I do genuinely feel bad for Jon Olson, since even though there are probably very few Mac players relative to PC players, the OpenGL Mac Client was so obviously a labor of love for him. Hopefully there's no hard feelings between him, us Mac users and Apple.

I guess moving forward there are three options Arenanet can make:

  • Get started on the Vulkan renderer, and convert this codebase to Mac using MoltenVK

I'm personally betting on either this, or a DX9 => OpenGL => Metal stack of translation layers, because who doesn't love an extra layer sneaking into the whole thing. Seriously, though, I really don't think this is gonna sell people on building to Metal, rather than building to one of the more broadly available API. The only reason the Windows-specific DirectX layer did so well was the combo of Windows as the only platform with the 3D capabilities and userbase, alongside the utter terribleness of the OpenGL support in the Windows drivers.

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HelloI know it is a bit soon, but is there a is plan with OpenGL being discontinued in the future?Right now the Mac client works REALLY good for me and it would be sad to not be able to play in the future or don't do system upgrades. I don't know the technical limitations or if it's even possible to change it to Metal, would be great to hear.

I hope you all are having a nice day.

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Apple has been jumping ship with OpenGL for some time now, it performs poorly when compared to Windows and Linux and it looks like they're hell bent on putting the final nail in the coffin.

Should ArenaNet decide to keep supporting Mac with a new renderer, I suggest Vulkan over Metal as it's not limited just to Mac and would probably benefit more in the long run.

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@"Noschiii.6819" said:I know it is a bit soon, but is there a is plan with OpenGL being discontinued in the future?

Literally four posts above you, ANet posted saying that, no, they are as surprised as you are, so ... their plan is "thank goodness it is only deprecated, because this will keep working until at a minimum 10.15 next year, so we have time to figure something out"

@ArmoredVehicle.2849 said:Apple has been jumping ship with OpenGL for some time now, it performs poorly when compared to Windows and Linux and it looks like they're hell bent on putting the final nail in the coffin.

Yeah, too bad for open standards. They were way behind the curve on it for a long time, so this isn't a great shock.

Should ArenaNet decide to keep supporting Mac with a new renderer, I suggest Vulkan over Metal as it's not limited just to Mac and would probably benefit more in the long run.

I understand they have a DX9 => OpenGL translation layer in play, so that'd be looking at a DX9 => Vulkan translation. The great news is that there is an existing Vulkan => Metal layer, as mentioned above, so that part would be fine, even if no DX9 => Metal thing happens.

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@Jon Olson.8439 said:@SlippyCheeze.5483: there is no DirectX translation layer in the 64-bit client, which is the only client we support on macOS. The 32-bit client used a translation layer, but it has been unavailable for some time now.

Oh! That is actually super-cool to learn. I thought there was, based on other comments. Thank you for correcting me, and I'll be certain not no misinform people again.

Oh, and thank you for the client. <3

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Well, I'm grateful for the efforts of the Mac dev's who are trying to improve the client. and I'd be willing to test anything they throw at me. Unfortunately, due to the low performance of the External GPU(Which I had to run a script to use with an older Mac and TB2 now, thanks Apple), and the RX580 attached to my 2012 MacBook Pro, I'm thinking about returning the GPU and just building a tiny Desktop with a Full Sized 1080 in it.

I just won't want to buy a whole computer just for Gw2...but I will.

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@"Burden.9724" said:Well, I'm grateful for the efforts of the Mac dev's who are trying to improve the client. and I'd be willing to test anything they throw at me. Unfortunately, due to the low performance of the External GPU(Which I had to run a script to use with an older Mac and TB2 now, thanks Apple), and the RX580 attached to my 2012 MacBook Pro, I'm thinking about returning the GPU and just building a tiny Desktop with a Full Sized 1080 in it.

It looks very much like the Thunderbolt 3 external GPU from Razer might be good for this, but yeah, it's ... macOS hardware is not in a happy state right now. I accepted that and ended up with a Windows machine for the game, and a couple of others. I don't exactly regret it, but the fact that I'm using the "Linux subsystem for Windows" and Debian as basically my primary way to interact with the system... let's say that Windows hasn't exactly gotten better in the last ten years.

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Not sure if this is the place for it. Recently got the game noticed when launching from the terminal it spits out a lot of errors. Particularly it says Umbra Occlusion Booster is expired not sure if that is something the game still uses or not but was alarming when I saw it. High Sierra 10.13.5. The game does run all be it with the occasional random crash it seems sometimes without even catching it to provide a dialog.

@Jon Olson.8439 Any thoughts on migrating to MoltenVK/MoltenVKShaderConverter (Vulkan->Metal) w/the OpenGL annoucement?

/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.60.1/Common/ChunkCompression.cpp:49: Error: unsupported compressor 8/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.60.1/Libraries/CompressData/CompressData.c:353: Error: Unknown compression scheme encountered for file '/System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources/Exceptions.plist'/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.60.1/Common/ChunkCompression.cpp:49: Error: unsupported compressor 8/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.60.1/Libraries/CompressData/CompressData.c:353: Error: Unknown compression scheme encountered for file '/System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Library/AppExceptions.bundle/Exceptions.plist'[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0Renderer Log: [21365:771:WARNING:resource_bundle.cc(303)] locale_file_path.empty()/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.60.1/Common/ChunkCompression.cpp:49: Error: unsupported compressor 8/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.60.1/Libraries/CompressData/CompressData.c:353: Error: Unknown compression scheme encountered for file '/System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources/Exceptions.plist'/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.60.1/Common/ChunkCompression.cpp:49: Error: unsupported compressor 8/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.60.1/Libraries/CompressData/CompressData.c:353: Error: Unknown compression scheme encountered for file '/System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Library/AppExceptions.bundle/Exceptions.plist'[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0[21382:771:WARNING:resource_bundle.cc(303)] locale_file_path.empty()[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0[21383:771:WARNING:resource_bundle.cc(303)] locale_file_path.empty()[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0[21384:771:WARNING:resource_bundle.cc(303)] locale_file_path.empty()[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0[21385:771:WARNING:resource_bundle.cc(303)] locale_file_path.empty()[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0[21386:771:WARNING:resource_bundle.cc(303)] locale_file_path.empty()[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0**Your Umbra Occlusion Booster evaluation license has expired. Pleasecontact sales@umbrasoftware.com to obtain a valid license or toextend your evaluation period. In case of techical problems pleasecontact support@umbrasoftware.com.

Applications using an expired evaluation version of Umbra OcclusionBooster will execute but view frustum and occlusion culling will bedisabled.

If you have a valid evaluation key, supply it as a parameter toUmbra31::Library::setEvaluationKey().**/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.60.1/Common/ChunkCompression.cpp:49: Error: unsupported compressor 8/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.60.1/Libraries/CompressData/CompressData.c:353: Error: Unknown compression scheme encountered for file '/System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources/Exceptions.plist'/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.60.1/Common/ChunkCompression.cpp:49: Error: unsupported compressor 8/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.60.1/Libraries/CompressData/CompressData.c:353: Error: Unknown compression scheme encountered for file '/System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Library/AppExceptions.bundle/Exceptions.plist'[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0Renderer Log: [21536:771:WARNING:resource_bundle.cc(303)] locale_file_path.empty()/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.60.1/Common/ChunkCompression.cpp:49: Error: unsupported compressor 8/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.60.1/Libraries/CompressData/CompressData.c:353: Error: Unknown compression scheme encountered for file '/System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources/Exceptions.plist'/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.60.1/Common/ChunkCompression.cpp:49: Error: unsupported compressor 8/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.60.1/Libraries/CompressData/CompressData.c:353: Error: Unknown compression scheme encountered for file '/System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Library/AppExceptions.bundle/Exceptions.plist'[warn] kq_init: detected broken kqueue; not using.: Undefined error: 0

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@Burden.9724 said:Well, I'm grateful for the efforts of the Mac dev's who are trying to improve the client. and I'd be willing to test anything they throw at me. Unfortunately, due to the low performance of the External GPU(Which I had to run a script to use with an older Mac and TB2 now, thanks Apple), and the RX580 attached to my 2012 MacBook Pro, I'm thinking about returning the GPU and just building a tiny Desktop with a Full Sized 1080 in it.

I just won't want to buy a whole computer just for Gw2...but I will.

Unfortunately the eGpu is probably just a waste of money. :(

I was debating what configuration I would do for my next machine. Since apple tends to use laptop gpus in even their desktop models I was debating the idea of a laptop and an egpu. Then I looked at my existing iMac .... GW2 was not even touching the GPU card that was in there.

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@Menadena.7482 said:

@Burden.9724 said:Well, I'm grateful for the efforts of the Mac dev's who are trying to improve the client. and I'd be willing to test anything they throw at me. Unfortunately, due to the low performance of the External GPU(Which I had to run a script to use with an older Mac and TB2 now, thanks Apple), and the RX580 attached to my 2012 MacBook Pro, I'm thinking about returning the GPU and just building a tiny Desktop with a Full Sized 1080 in it.

I just won't want to buy a whole computer just for Gw2...but I will.

Unfortunately the eGpu is probably just a waste of money. :(

I was debating what configuration I would do for my next machine. Since apple tends to use laptop gpus in even their desktop models I was debating the idea of a laptop and an egpu. Then I looked at my existing iMac .... GW2 was not even touching the GPU card that was in there.

I can't comment on modern ones, but the top end CPU and the NVIDIA 685MX was able to bottleneck on the video card -- specifically, video memory bandwidth -- for me a while back. I kind of assume with the whole 5K thing, you would be pushing toward a similar sort of bottleneck these days, but I guess video cards really did move that much faster.

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@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@Burden.9724 said:Well, I'm grateful for the efforts of the Mac dev's who are trying to improve the client. and I'd be willing to test anything they throw at me. Unfortunately, due to the low performance of the External GPU(Which I had to run a script to use with an older Mac and TB2 now, thanks Apple), and the RX580 attached to my 2012 MacBook Pro, I'm thinking about returning the GPU and just building a tiny Desktop with a Full Sized 1080 in it.

I just won't want to buy a whole computer just for Gw2...but I will.

Unfortunately the eGpu is probably just a waste of money. :(

I was debating what configuration I would do for my next machine. Since apple tends to use laptop gpus in even their desktop models I was debating the idea of a laptop and an egpu. Then I looked at my existing iMac .... GW2 was not even touching the GPU card that was in there.

I can't comment on modern ones, but the top end CPU and the NVIDIA 685MX was able to bottleneck on the video card -- specifically, video memory bandwidth -- for me a while back. I kind of assume with the whole 5K thing, you would be pushing toward a similar sort of bottleneck these days, but I guess video cards really did move that much faster.

Interesting! With my iMac I was seeing practically all my graphics load going to the on-board intel rather than hitting the discrete gpu. It could be because it was a pre-5k model. So maybe an eGPU would not be a total waste given my next monitor is probably 5K or higher?

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@MagnusGrim.1594 said:Not sure if this is the place for it. Recently got the game noticed when launching from the terminal it spits out a lot of errors. Particularly it says Umbra Occlusion Booster is expired not sure if that is something the game still uses or not but was alarming when I saw it.

I got that same message when trying to run the repair app after a series of crashes (esp when leaving a scout's cinematic or map view.) Usually repairing makes the crashes go away, but this time they are persisting. At least it is not so common it interferes with play a lot...maybe once every few days.

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@Menadena.7482 said:

@"Burden.9724" said:Well, I'm grateful for the efforts of the Mac dev's who are trying to improve the client. and I'd be willing to test anything they throw at me. Unfortunately, due to the low performance of the External GPU(Which I had to run a script to use with an older Mac and TB2 now, thanks Apple), and the RX580 attached to my 2012 MacBook Pro, I'm thinking about returning the GPU and just building a tiny Desktop with a Full Sized 1080 in it.

I just won't want to buy a whole computer just for Gw2...but I will.

Unfortunately the eGpu is probably just a waste of money. :(

I was debating what configuration I would do for my next machine. Since apple tends to use laptop gpus in even their desktop models I was debating the idea of a laptop and an egpu. Then I looked at my existing iMac .... GW2 was not even touching the GPU card that was in there.

I can't comment on modern ones, but the top end CPU and the NVIDIA 685MX was able to bottleneck on the video card -- specifically, video memory bandwidth -- for me a while back. I kind of assume with the whole 5K thing, you would be pushing toward a similar sort of bottleneck these days, but I guess video cards really did move that much faster.

Interesting! With my iMac I was seeing practically all my graphics load going to the on-board intel rather than hitting the discrete gpu. It could be because it was a pre-5k model. So maybe an eGPU would not be a total waste given my next monitor is probably 5K or higher?

I don't know, but I know that full quality 4K rendering can keep a desktop NVIDIA 1080Ti busy, on Windows, so I'd expect that you at least could push that 5K monitor with an eGPU faster than the internal one. YMMV, I have not tested this, etc, but ... if the discrete GPU becomes the bottleneck, which I'd anticipate it could over time, then an external one may be worth testing.

Like everything about "moar FPS", it comes down to this: find out where the bottleneck is, address that. If it isn't GPU performance, then the eGPU probably won't help. If it is raw performance, or heat management, on the GPU, then it might. YMMV.

Though you can probably just set render mode to "subsampling" and render at, uh, 2.5K, with a full rez UI, and have fine and dandy results too, so shrug

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@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@"Burden.9724" said:Well, I'm grateful for the efforts of the Mac dev's who are trying to improve the client. and I'd be willing to test anything they throw at me. Unfortunately, due to the low performance of the External GPU(Which I had to run a script to use with an older Mac and TB2 now, thanks Apple), and the RX580 attached to my 2012 MacBook Pro, I'm thinking about returning the GPU and just building a tiny Desktop with a Full Sized 1080 in it.

I just won't want to buy a whole computer just for Gw2...but I will.

Unfortunately the eGpu is probably just a waste of money. :(

I was debating what configuration I would do for my next machine. Since apple tends to use laptop gpus in even their desktop models I was debating the idea of a laptop and an egpu. Then I looked at my existing iMac .... GW2 was not even touching the GPU card that was in there.

I can't comment on modern ones, but the top end CPU and the NVIDIA 685MX was able to bottleneck on the video card -- specifically, video memory bandwidth -- for me a while back. I kind of assume with the whole 5K thing, you would be pushing toward a similar sort of bottleneck these days, but I guess video cards really did move that much faster.

Interesting! With my iMac I was seeing practically all my graphics load going to the on-board intel rather than hitting the discrete gpu. It could be because it was a pre-5k model. So maybe an eGPU would not be a total waste given my next monitor is probably 5K or higher?

I don't know, but I know that full quality 4K rendering can keep a desktop NVIDIA 1080Ti busy, on Windows, so I'd expect that you at least
could
push that 5K monitor with an eGPU faster than the internal one. YMMV, I have not tested this, etc, but ... if the discrete GPU becomes the bottleneck, which I'd anticipate it could over time, then an external one may be worth testing.

Like everything about "moar FPS", it comes down to this: find out where the bottleneck is, address that. If it isn't GPU performance, then the eGPU probably won't help. If it is raw performance, or heat management, on the GPU, then it might. YMMV.

Though you can probably just set render mode to "subsampling" and render at, uh, 2.5K, with a full rez UI, and have fine and dandy results too, so
shrug

True, by the time I am making the decision to pull the trigger on an egpu I suspect there will be plenty of articles on the web to say what difference it made for various people. If I go with a laptop (a macbook pro) I plan to have all sorts of stuff to flush it out to a full desktop when it is home and an egpu may be part of that.

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There is no performance improvement relevant to MacOS Mojave beta which I have started to use since a several weeks. Actually, after I switched to 64-bit client from 32-bit client, the game has become unplayable for me sişnce fps decreased dramatically and I had to delete the game :(

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@ykamilak.3610 said:There is no performance improvement relevant to MacOS Mojave beta which I have started to use since a several weeks. Actually, after I switched to 64-bit client from 32-bit client, the game has become unplayable for me sişnce fps decreased dramatically and I had to delete the game :(

Have you tried running it from the terminal with -forwardrenderer ? Maybe I'm just imagining things but it appears in my case at least to be more stable and run smoother./Applications/Guild\ Wars\ 2\ 64-bit.app/Contents/MacOS/GuildWars2 -forwardrenderer

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@MagnusGrim.1594 said:

@ykamilak.3610 said:There is no performance improvement relevant to MacOS Mojave beta which I have started to use since a several weeks. Actually, after I switched to 64-bit client from 32-bit client, the game has become unplayable for me sişnce fps decreased dramatically and I had to delete the game :(

Have you tried running it from the terminal with -forwardrenderer ? Maybe I'm just imagining things but it appears in my case at least to be more stable and run smoother./Applications/Guild\ Wars\ 2\ 64-bit.app/Contents/MacOS/GuildWars2 -forwardrenderer

Hmmm. There may be a slight improvement for me on my iMac. But really hard to tell.

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Why are we seeing this error?

Your Umbra Occlusion Booster evaluation license has expired. Pleasecontact sales@umbrasoftware.com to obtain a valid license or toextend your evaluation period. In case of techical problems pleasecontact support@umbrasoftware.com.Applications using an expired evaluation version of Umbra OcclusionBooster will execute but view frustum and occlusion culling will bedisabled.If you have a valid evaluation key, supply it as a parameter toUmbra31::Library::setEvaluationKey().
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So today I tried logging in again since last... march I believe. I specifically logged out while in water (the lake in LA) to see what would happen. It didn't take long for the water to show up (under a minute, thankfully), and I could see some NPCs in the distance as well as wildlife in the water. As I moved further into town, there was a mix of NPCs that have and hadn't loaded. Oh and sometimes the game gets choppy when I move. I have not started the PoF story at all. And I didn't do it today either. I'm still kind of fearful that I would, say, load a story instance, and find myself having to fight a bunch of invisible enemies. That being said, I've been seeing a lot less complaints lately. Can I get some witness report from how the game's been? Preferrably from people who have had problems before?

Just to reiterate what I had back in the day.

2012 iMac, El Capitan 10.11.6 (I'm still hesitant to upgrade, last time I upgraded (to El Capitan, right when it was new) it broke some of my experiences. I really should bite the bullet by now, but I'm still hesitant)2,7 GHz Intel Core i58 GB 1600 MHz DDR3NVIDIA GeForce GT 640M 512 MB

While this is obviously an older system, it still meets the system requirements listed on the product page. And I plan to use this old system for at least 4 more years, but preferably much more than that.

Oh and I'm playing on the lowest possible settings.

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I cannot download the Jun 25 latest patch, it is stuck at 2 or 3% with few hundred files missing. It will ask to Repair , and after repairing, the launcher is still stuck at 2/3% at 0kbs/ sec. I have deleted Bin & Cache repeatedly. I added the client to firewall permissions. What else will fix this? Used to patch and log in/play correctly.

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