Toning Down Maguuma — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Toning Down Maguuma

Just recently I got both expansions for this game and first I started PoF for the fact that I wanted the mounts for I heard that Maguuma is Hell on Tyria. And boy were they right. So I am making this thread as mainly as discussion and maybe hopefully getting the attention of ArenaNet. For I believe that the mobs are WAY too hostile (I am looking at you pocket raptors) and the EXP gain is so slow compared to PoF. What do you guys think and do you think that this can be fixed much like the underwater combat was fixed?

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Comments

  • Laila Lightness.8742Laila Lightness.8742 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hot needs to be nerfed overall its to hard for bormal players core difficulty in open world was best(before breakbars came)

  • Well, at least now I know. I guess I can just power through it. I think I will just power through the story and the exploration of the land to sate the completionist in me. For I love Maguuma and I love its motif but being a reaper I feel like I see the death side via my character rather than the other way around.

  • @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I'm going to be that guy and say that HoT is fine. Seriously, all of the enemies have one or two gimmicks, and as soon as you recognize what that gimmick is the enemy becomes much easier..

    HoT is meant to be a difficulty spike. The base game was quite easy, so when expansion time came around players were begging for something that was more challenging. HoT delivered. Mostly by front loading the burst of the smaller enemies, but still it, enemies required more thought than running up and face tanking while you melee them senseless. By the time you get to HoT you've had the whole base game to learn your toon and all of its abilities, now put them to use. Rise to the challenge and git gud, because it only gets harder from here.

    Yeah and I do agree that I have begun to see the mobs gimmicks but the big issue that most base attacks hit you for 2-6k and most of them also do a slow before you can move from a huge AOE that usually hits you for half of your health. And this seems to be an issue with both my melee and range characters. Don't get me wrong, I like the difficulty for it makes sense for the zone and I don't mind experimenting with builds but the hits that the enemies do alone takes the fun out of the beautiful zone that is Maguuma.

  • @Raizel.8175 said:
    This again?

    HoT is perfectly fine the way it is. I'd even argue that HoT is one of the best expansions any MMORPG has ever seen. You have unique map-design with multiple layers instead of your typical and boring flat maps and you have a high degree of replayability through meta-events. To be honest, I hate all the projectile-kitten in PoF a lot more than anything in HoT. You said you already completed PoF, didn't ye? So it should be no problem for you to waltz through HoT with your mounts. One Raptor-AoE and all these cute little pocket raptors are dead.

    True, true. I will say that I like the map a lot more than in something like WoW. And I haven't completed PoF because I wanted at least two of the mounts (working on the skimmer currently) and also I didn't want to spoil the story. At least all of the story instances are moderately close together.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Conncept.7638 said:
    That's the entire issue with HoT, it was made difficult without any concern about interraction; it's chock full of mobs that require specific mechanics which the build or even the entire class you are playing may or may not have, and even mechanics that defy what the base game taught you was good play and buildcraft.

    First, every class has AOE skills, CC Skills and in general skills that can help you deal with any HoT mob just fine.
    Second, the base game doesn't teach you anything about good play or builds. You can survive in Orr and kill any Risen in green gear while only auto attacking and standing still. Outside areas that were added after release (young karka in southsun for example) or new mobs added in old zones (risen nobles in Orr) the core mobs aren't even capable of fighting back.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CrazyMinxi.6810 said:
    Just recently I got both expansions for this game and first I started PoF for the fact that I wanted the mounts for I heard that Maguuma is Hell on Tyria. And boy were they right. So I am making this thread as mainly as discussion and maybe hopefully getting the attention of ArenaNet. For I believe that the mobs are WAY too hostile (I am looking at you pocket raptors) and the EXP gain is so slow compared to PoF. What do you guys think and do you think that this can be fixed much like the underwater combat was fixed?

    Pocket Raptors? These have never been anything else than little packets of experience walking straight to you.

  • SunTzu.4513SunTzu.4513 Member ✭✭✭

    Nah leave the HoT difficulty as it is. Open World is already way to easy. HoT only requires a little bit of attention on what kind of mobs are incoming an what kind of skills they use. ANet should raise core Tyria difficulty so new player don't run into the HoT wall of increased difficulty. Once you become familiar with the different types of mobs you can melt trough them.

  • Urud.4925Urud.4925 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I also think that the current difficulty is fine, even though I remember that I died so many times when I unlocked the maps for the first time (trying to complete the story mission, my friend told me "come here where I am", but pocket raptors always killed me on the way, until I logged out. Now I enjoy killing them :) ). Maybe going "full berserk" as everyone suggests, may not be the best idea here.
    You are still forced to ask for some help for some hp or event, and I think it's a good thing. The maps are still popular after all.

    PoF on the other hand makes me rage, and I never came back there, since I completed all the achievements on its maps. It's not because mobs are difficult: it's because they are terribly annoying with their aggro/stun. I can't even open my inventory for 3 seconds that someone kills me.

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Core should be harder and HoT easier. The Season 2 and 3 and PoF maps are a good example of difficulty. I didn't have that big problems in HoT when it released. But going back there and getting hit for 29'000 single damage by a shroom as a warrior is beyond ridiculous. It makes absolutely no sense to overtune damage. It is as if they accidentally increased the damage regulator by a huge margin.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the only problem i have with HoT is that some mods have OP skills, tone them down and it's fine. ( i am looking at you smokescale)

  • Haleydawn.3764Haleydawn.3764 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think HoT is fine, but I will say that they could down tune the HPs from Champions to Elites now. I’m aware you can join trains or ask your guild etc, I don’t need anymore HoT Hero Points either (all 9 profs I have more or less finished HoT map completing), but for the sake of older content having less players exploring/squadding, it makes sense to down tune HoT HPs now. That is the only thing I can get behind when people claim that HoT needs an(other) nerfbat.

    As for the HoT story, I did it without too much trouble the first week of release. No nerf is needed imo.

    Better get a wriggle on.

  • DragonSlayer.1087DragonSlayer.1087 Member ✭✭✭

    Like most people has said here, HoT has already been nerfed. I actually quit for a long time when HoT came out cause that was the time when I was just coming back to GW2 after a break. I tried playing HoT and it was bloody hard that it made me quit again.

    Now tho, the maps are fun to play with random pugs for HP train and meta events. The HP bosses are definitely harder to solo in HoT than PoF.

  • Steve The Cynic.3217Steve The Cynic.3217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CrazyMinxi.6810 said:
    but the big issue that most base attacks hit you for 2-6k

    I'll leave you with the fundamental lesson they teach you (or should, anyway) in any real-world martial arts club with even a nod to self-defence.

    Don't Get Hit.

    If they don't hit you, you don't take any damage. That, ultimately, is the lesson that HoT drives home. The GW2 combat system is based around "active defence", getting out of the way of incoming damage in whatever way you can. As you play better, you learn which is the best "Don't Stand In Stupid"(1) method to apply to which enemy, but in general dodge-rolls are the way to go. (Example: Jungle Tendril poison-goop landing circles can be trivially evaded by just running because the goop takes so long to reach you.)

    (1) The war cry of healers in trinity-based MMORPGs (WoW, SWTOR, RoM, Allods, etc.) everywhere. In GW2, you have to say it to yourself.

    @Biff.5312 said:
    Exercise your whimsy.

  • @Blocki.4931 gives you a standing ovation Thank you for that extensive post! Your post and the rest of you guys have enlightened me. I found I was being unfair to GW2 because I have played tons of MMORPGs in my day but Guild Wars breaks the mold. Since making this post, I have found that tinkering with my reaper has lead to some great results and I now believe that I will have a much easier time in Maguuma (I am still going to avoid nighttime like the plague).

  • Plautze.6290Plautze.6290 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 what a great write-up!

    Rohan Blackraven | Allister Mortis | Kareem Aqbar | Mindblower Torxx

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The only thing in hot that needs to be nerfed is the lava lines from the mordrem. They do far too much damage. Especially so if multiple lines fires at you.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    tl;dr: HoT has hard hitting, telegraphed attacks that will destroy you. PoF has a dozen enemies with hard to tell, extremely hard hitting attacks that may or may not also be tied to a CC that will make you scream BS at your screen many times.

    I'm gonna add here that between release of the game and heart of thorns there had been many many content updates that added much harder than the original mobs. Those that have been with the game for all that journey should've had little to no trouble getting accustomed to Heart of Thorns difficulty (and Path of Fire difficulty). The problems comes from that content being temporary and no longer available, meaning for newer players the jump from core to expansion is a bit too high.

    Similar to your analysis of HoT/PoF mobs I'll provide one for those living world mobs:
    Young Karka: a massive ranged projectile attack that can 1-shot down players if they take it all in the face, dodge, use projectile reflects, blocking skills, CC them, lots of options to kill them easily
    Mordrem Thrashers: before their massive nerf when Heart of Thorns was released these bad boys were evading all attacks, unless you hit them from behind while they were spinning.
    Mordrem Wolves: before their massive nerf when Heart of Thorns was released these could insta-down a player if hit from behind. They also used retaliation instead of swiftness. A pack of these meant dead players if they used area of effect skills
    Molten Alliance Brawler: these guys jumping around and chain CCing were probably the hardest hitting Molten Alliance mobs, even simple Veterans were hard to kill
    Toxic Alliance Krait: These guys with a projectile reflect shield and lots of condition application
    Toy Princess: Remember fighting these in the open world, when you opened presents they would appear in groups of 8, then scream and down anyone with their confusion application, sadly they were replaced with skritt enemies so you can no longer fight the princess of death out in the world
    Twisted Horror: These little Twisted Watchworks had the capability of knocking you down with a charge attack, then finish you off with confusion and mass damage while you were downed. Probably the worst of Scarlet's minions

    Sadly, Young Karka are only available in Southsun, a place that isn't very populated so lots of players won't fight them before entering expansion areas.
    Also, the Mordrem were heavily nerfed when the expansion was released meaning they are no longer a threat in Dry Top and/or Silverwastes, where they used to kill players by the masses.
    The other mobs are either not available anymore, or are available in very specific places that most players will safely ignore anyway.

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2018

    HoT is fine as it is, IMO. Read Blocki's post for some excellent tips on how to deal with the mobs there but essentially GW2 is a game that requires you to stay mobile so you can't just face tank like in some other MMOs, most of the time dodges aren't required, you can sidestep the big wind-up attacks and can defeat most mobs easily by circling them as you attack.

    To give people a tip on how this game should be played (IMO) by default A and D are turn left and right and Q and E are strafe left and right, you should bind A and D to strafe left and right and leave turning unbound so that you turn with your mouse not the keyboard: keyboard turning will just get you killed.

  • sitarskee.5738sitarskee.5738 Member ✭✭✭

    I did HoT maps with thief, guard and ele before PoF came out. At first I had some problems but you quickly learn your way through it and boy, is it rewarding. Now with mounts it is waaay easier and faster. Game would be too boring if it was not challenging atleast in part of it.

  • Donutdude.9582Donutdude.9582 Member ✭✭✭

    In all honesty, I do not mind that Heart of Thorns is more challenging. It just means that you have to get creative with your builds instead of running your glassy Berserker or Viper setup.

    I use either a Soldier's Guardian or a Trailblazer's Elementalist when I'm running around the Maguuma jungle. I do not often get downed nor do I struggle with the content.

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  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CrazyMinxi.6810 said:
    Just recently I got both expansions for this game and first I started PoF for the fact that I wanted the mounts for I heard that Maguuma is Hell on Tyria. And boy were they right. So I am making this thread as mainly as discussion and maybe hopefully getting the attention of ArenaNet. For I believe that the mobs are WAY too hostile (I am looking at you pocket raptors) and the EXP gain is so slow compared to PoF. What do you guys think and do you think that this can be fixed much like the underwater combat was fixed?

    Give it a chance. When I first entered the jungle, I died a LOT. The enemies all seem to have some sort of murderous gimmick that makes them stand out from the swarming pocket raptors, to projectile-spamming bristlebacks, to rapid-onslaught smokescales, etc. But they can be easily managed once you familiarize yourself with their attacks and learn strategies to counter them. Unlocking masteries and elite specs and adapting your build to new challenges will help a great deal as well!

    You mentioned pocket raptors. They seem pretty nasty at first. Believe me, I remember vividly! Trying to run through them and getting chased down and killed was not a lot of fun. But eventually I realized that you can either avoid that first strike (pocket raptors have a delay before attacking that makes them very predictable) or use CC/area damage to prevent some of them from attacking. Every raptor you kill/stun is less damage you take if you get hit by the assault. And since they have no health, it's feasible to take out multiple pocket raptors in a single area attack. That quickly takes the bite out of them.

    Here's a little video I made in response to a similar thread awhile back. This is just my little healer ele taking a run through the canyon of pocket raptor murder.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Conncept.7638 said:

    @TheMaverick.6104 said:
    Pocketraptors arent that bad, just make sure to use your aoe. 🙂

    That's the entire issue with HoT, it was made difficult without any concern about interraction; it's chock full of mobs that require specific mechanics which the build or even the entire class you are playing may or may not have, and even mechanics that defy what the base game taught you was good play and buildcraft. And then you finally get fed up with the mob that's harassing you, change your build in a way that makes it less fun and you're not used to but gets you through the Grenth awful jungle, only for you to find another mob down the road that you need the specific mechanics you just removed from your build to deal with the last mob! HoT did a lot of good things it didn't get credit for in the end, as people are now finding in their many and varied critiques of PoF, but mob and small scale encounter design were not one of them.

    I have completed every map with every class.. I fail to see the issue other than some players don't want to learn how to tackle certain things like the rappies.. draw them in close and either burst them or aoe them.. they melt like chocolate fire hoses then. Just because newer maps have mobs or groups of mobs that are more than just 1111 faceplants doesn't make it bad design or need any kind of nerf. If your struggling to solo maps, grab a friend, get a guildie or put up an LFG. Its more about the individual than the map design imo.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Dreamy Lu.3865Dreamy Lu.3865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Regarding OP: I believe it is once more a matter of opinion.
    Personally, I find PoF by far harder. The areas are overcrowded with foes, with an aggro range having no limit, and a level of damages that gets us down in no time. In those areas, being in combat (what prevents using a mount and map travelling) is not forgiving. I simply don't go there if not with a train. Those are the only areas of the game where I don't go for casual exploration and farming.
    In comparison the HoT areas are - for me - way easier. Foes are bad but fairly dispatched and with a "normal" aggro range: if we run away, they break aggro. In addition, all the HoT areas have more WPs, and an "upper floor" which, combined with mushrooms, ley-lines and gliding, allows pretty safe travelling/exploring everywhere in the area. If using a mount, it becomes even easier!
    I also find the HoT storyline much easier than the PoF one. In HoT, I was able to solo all instances apart from the final one (I am an average player, not a good one), whereas in PoF, I struggled badly at several and needed help from friends to go through. The only exception area for me in PoF is Sandswept Isle, where finally, for first time since PoF started, I found a place where it is possible again to explore and farm in an enjoyable manner.

    I'm out of my mind, feel free to leave a message...

  • Kolache.3964Kolache.3964 Member ✭✭

    Personally, I just hate the HoT maps. I love PoF and was so happy to be able to take advantage of mounts to cheese some parts of HoT maps :)

  • Mea.5491Mea.5491 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2018

    The jungle was "toned down" already (unfortunately). My characters can survive easily but they are all Celestial. I definitely don't recommend full glass cannon gear but some people can handle it. The exp gain is not slow if you do meta events. HoT maps are perfect the way they are and a lot more fun than PoF ones. Also, don't forget that this is an MMORPG. Let's not turn the whole game into a single-player snoozefest like PoF.

  • costepj.5120costepj.5120 Member ✭✭✭

    I love threads like this; makes me feel like a PvE God!
    I don't consider myself a particularly good player and I still get confused navigating TD, but I've never really had any issue with HoT mobs. I've learned to avoid a few like veteran Smokescales when I'm just passing through an area, but mostly I can give as good as I get. It's not necessary to engage and kill everything you encounter; especially true now if you stop off in Elona and collect a few mounts.

    So long and thanks for all the Skritt

  • Kolache.3964Kolache.3964 Member ✭✭

    @MarshallLaw.9260 said:
    A small minority of less experienced players often voice their concern that the content is "too difficult" - the vast majority of the population enjoy the challenging aspect of it.

    I thought the reviews/sales reflected HoT not generally being well received? Especially not by the vast majority. Was this fake news? I'm so confused these days--no sarcasm :)

  • Goettel.4389Goettel.4389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Different strokes, I wouldn't mind them upping the difficulty (and the loots).

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kolache.3964 said:

    @MarshallLaw.9260 said:
    A small minority of less experienced players often voice their concern that the content is "too difficult" - the vast majority of the population enjoy the challenging aspect of it.

    I thought the reviews/sales reflected HoT not generally being well received? Especially not by the vast majority. Was this fake news? I'm so confused these days--no sarcasm :)

    As far as sales are concerned, the one to blame is the core game not heart of thorns. Judging by the declining revenue before Heart of Thorns was released, the still active playerbase was already shrunk too much when the expansion hit.

    As for review numbers:
    http://www.gamerankings.com/pc/214600-guild-wars-2-path-of-fire/index.html
    http://www.gamerankings.com/pc/120229-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns/index.html

    or even if you prefer:
    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/guild-wars-2-path-of-fire
    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns

    Pretty similar. The User score of Heart of Thorns is lower than Path of Fire but if you take some time to read some of the reviews you'll notice that navigation, map design and the way the meta used to work (participation) are top of the list for that, not the difficulty of mobs.

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭

    HoT is beautiful and great with the difficulty it has. It was already nerfed without necessity a couple of times. Some people has already explained the issue in the thread, with clear arguments and precise examples, so I don't need to talk anymore. Please stop trying to nerf every thing you can't faceroll.

  • SlippyCheeze.5483SlippyCheeze.5483 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CrazyMinxi.6810 said:
    Just recently I got both expansions for this game and first I started PoF for the fact that I wanted the mounts for I heard that Maguuma is Hell on Tyria. And boy were they right.

    I think you have missed a key problem: if Maguuma is a jump in difficulty compared to core -- and in the original it had LS1 and LS2 to smooth out the difficulty jump -- then LS3, HoT, and LS4 are going to be the places that you get hit with next. Each of those steps up the smarts, and the tricks, of the enemies. Those wretched spellbreaker harpies, for example, are rather hard hitting, and require sensible and active play.

    So, if you reduce the difficulty of HoT you will hit people with the same wall at LS3. Tone that down, it hits at PoF. Tone that down, it hits at LS4. These all build gradually on difficulty, and I think that the LS2 being skipped is a big contributor to how surprising it is.

    I'm kind of shocked, though, that people don't report the same experience in PoF. Most of the enemies on those maps are similar to, or more advanced versions of, the HoT enemies. Jungle vines <=> sand sharks. Mordrem Sniper <=> Hookhead. The ones that don't are usually worse, looking at you forged assemblers and whatever those spinning blade floating things are.

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2018

    @SlippyCheeze.5483 said:
    I'm kind of shocked, though, that people don't report the same experience in PoF. Most of the enemies on those maps are similar to, or more advanced versions of, the HoT enemies. Jungle vines <=> sand sharks. Mordrem Sniper <=> Hookhead. The ones that don't are usually worse, looking at you forged assemblers and whatever those spinning blade floating things are.

    I suspect that's because many of us "got gud" during HoT and didn't even realise it. :)

  • Lord Trejgon.2809Lord Trejgon.2809 Member ✭✭✭

    to be honest I have trouble believing someone would find heart of maguuma difficult compared to Path of Fire content....

    you never run into those forged patrols solo or something? ;)

    (the only thing I'd agree here on of maguuma being "hell" is some hero challenges being purely cancer if you happened to not be or have with you character purely build for AoE Bomb, which is no longer the case in PoF, but aside of that I'd stil lrate maguuma easier)

  • Nemo.5609Nemo.5609 Member ✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    Those things that root themselves in place that attack you with vines that keep spawning at your feet. I will give anybody this one, it IS rather easy to die to these and not realize that one dodge roll basically stops that attack.

    I think a lot of people don't realise how the Mordrem Leeching Thrasher attacks work; they have 2 'modes':
    1) Root themselves in place and spam vines to nearby players - This attack has a minimum range, you will not be affected AT ALL if you stand in melee range.
    2) Fly up in the sky and make a big lifestealing pool underneath them - Move out of the pool so you don't heal the Thrasher and range it, it will stand there and do nothing.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CrazyMinxi.6810 said:
    Just recently I got both expansions for this game and first I started PoF for the fact that I wanted the mounts for I heard that Maguuma is Hell on Tyria. And boy were they right. So I am making this thread as mainly as discussion and maybe hopefully getting the attention of ArenaNet. For I believe that the mobs are WAY too hostile (I am looking at you pocket raptors) and the EXP gain is so slow compared to PoF. What do you guys think and do you think that this can be fixed much like the underwater combat was fixed?

    So first off disclosure, I prefer HoT over PoF. Though I found PoF quite pleasing to the eye I found that I rarely go back and didn't even feel the need to complete the maps. If I am PvEing I find myself in HoT or core Tyria. The full map wide events in HoT and the challenge of the mobs is more engaging and is quite replay-able. So no for me, I wouldn't tone them down.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
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  • SlippyCheeze.5483SlippyCheeze.5483 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @SlippyCheeze.5483 said:
    I'm kind of shocked, though, that people don't report the same experience in PoF. Most of the enemies on those maps are similar to, or more advanced versions of, the HoT enemies. Jungle vines <=> sand sharks. Mordrem Sniper <=> Hookhead. The ones that don't are usually worse, looking at you forged assemblers and whatever those spinning blade floating things are.

    I suspect that's because many of us "got gud" during HoT and didn't even realise it. :)

    Yeah, I'm thinking of the new players, rather than the, uh, classic version? ;)

    I actually completely agree with you: even people who skipped LS2 and went directly from core to HoT with the accompanying difficulty brick wall have now had plenty of time to smoothly ramp up to the newest content.

  • SlippyCheeze.5483SlippyCheeze.5483 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nemo.5609 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    Those things that root themselves in place that attack you with vines that keep spawning at your feet. I will give anybody this one, it IS rather easy to die to these and not realize that one dodge roll basically stops that attack.

    I think a lot of people don't realise how the Mordrem Leeching Thrasher attacks work; they have 2 'modes':
    1) Root themselves in place and spam vines to nearby players - This attack has a minimum range, you will not be affected AT ALL if you stand in melee range.
    2) Fly up in the sky and make a big lifestealing pool underneath them - Move out of the pool so you don't heal the Thrasher and range it, it will stand there and do nothing.

    Yeah, all of the enemies use a fairly small, and entirely understandable set of rules. It too me until a couple months ago to learn about the vine thing, though. It's not always easy to figure this stuff out, sadly, so I'm sympathetic to people who find it equally difficult.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Meh both regions have their share of poorly designed mobs

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