AFK farming and reports (merged)

[LaHire.5934]

@"Patchwreck.2357" said:See a bunch of necro's on the corner and automatically assume they're do'in wrong "CALL THE COPS ON THOSE NECROS!!!.

Give me a break with your sarcasm, we all know what 3-4+ necro, stacked on a predetermined/popular spot for rare materials farming, are currently doing,I find it very annoying, since the vast majority of the people are actually working to progress(economically) in this game, while some others exploit some of the poorly designed mechanics to enrich themselves, while doing NOTHING. This couldn't be more clear.We should be able to report them swiftly, and be done with it. I don't plan on writing tickets over and over, even less considering the vague/ridiculous answers I receive, it almost feels like a copy-pasted message.

I understand people wanting to take a break... but thats life man, money doesn't fill your pockets when you are sleeping or eating or smoking, you've got to work for it, period.

[Rasimir.6239]

@hugo.4705 said:When I come here to farm 10 dusts for scribing and making decos, I'm annoyed and can't farm them because of 20 necros minions or turrets on them.If that's your only problem, then just grab your dust elsewhere. Dust for example drops frequently from all kinds of branded creatures. Go into the branded areas of Fields of Ruin or southern Blazeridge, and you'll have your 10 radiant dust in a few minutes. Same with northern Blazeridge or Iron Marches for luminous dust. I stumbled through there looking for dust for a gift of energy just this last weekend, and I was surprised how quickly the dust gathered in my inventory.

[Rasimir.6239]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:Like the ones in Queensdale farming the bandit camp of all places for months now..My husband started playing GW2 a couple of weeks ago (after almost 6 years of our daughters and myself telling him how great the game is 8) ), and he had his first run-in with an afk minion necro in that cave just a couple of days ago. He was going through the cave, killing bandits left and right (for their bags, as he doesn't have much gold to grab crafting materials for his leveling ftp character from the trading post yet), and got whispered by the afk necro and threatened to be reported because the veteran in said cave, once in combat, decided to attack the afk necro rather than my husband fighting the other bandits a couple of times 8) .

Despite being a veteran of several MMOs, he had to ask me if this was a usual occurance in this game and if he had anything to fear for being reported (for killing mobs near an afk player ;) ).

[costepj.5120]

how did an afk player whisper him? Did he just hear a voice in his head?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

Passive gameplay is allowed. Automated gameplay is not. However you, as a player, have no tools to judge. Apparently, neither do devs as their method of detection is whispering people. If you are uncertain, just report everyone ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Lonecap.4105]

Honestly yeah, it's total BS. It DOES harm the economy, and it DOES harm other players.

I used to farm Elaborate Totems, manually. They were like 24 silver each, and I would load up on magic find food, get a boost etc and go to my farm spot. I'd run around killing any mobs and it was decent money, until I started noticing dreaded Minion Masters standing in a certain spot (just the right place to get their pets to quickly tag and kill the maximized amount of mobs). They were doing the same thing as me, except I was putting in real effort and time, while they were AFK abusing a game mechanic.

How much are Elaborate Totems now? 10 silver.

Tell me more about how it doesn't hurt the economy or players.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:Like the ones in Queensdale farming the bandit camp of all places for months now..My husband started playing GW2 a couple of weeks ago (after almost 6 years of our daughters and myself telling him how great the game is 8) ), and he had his first run-in with an afk minion necro in that cave just a couple of days ago. He was going through the cave, killing bandits left and right (for their bags, as he doesn't have much gold to grab crafting materials for his leveling ftp character from the trading post yet), and got whispered by the afk necro and threatened to be reported because the veteran in said cave, once in combat, decided to attack the afk necro rather than my husband fighting the other bandits a couple of times 8) .

Despite being a veteran of several MMOs, he had to ask me if this was a usual occurance in this game and if he had anything to fear for being reported (for killing mobs near an afk player ;) ).

Guessing that was not an AFK farmer but someone taking a timeout answering a call of nature or a phone call etc..

AFK necro's will be using precision timed auto cast skills and using their minions to farm fast respawn mobs.. they want mobs coming at them for that reason. So the fact your husband got a whisper at all and a complaint about bringing the veteran on to the necro suggests this was not an afk farmer.

The ones in the bandit camp that have been farming it are known to a few of us and their alts that they hive around the same spots.. just report what you see as botting and then ANET might someday take a look at it and make a judgement call.. but don't hold your breath.

[costepj.5120]

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:Honestly yeah, it's total BS. It DOES harm the economy, and it DOES harm other players.

I used to farm Elaborate Totems, manually. They were like 24 silver each, and I would load up on magic find food, get a boost etc and go to my farm spot. I'd run around killing any mobs and it was decent money, until I started noticing dreaded Minion Masters standing in a certain spot (just the right place to get their pets to quickly tag and kill the maximized amount of mobs). They were doing the same thing as me, except I was putting in real effort and time, while they were AFK abusing a game mechanic.

How much are Elaborate Totems now? 10 silver.

Tell me more about how it doesn't hurt the economy or players.

But you are looking at it from the perspective of a producer rather than a consumer. If you need Elaborate Totems it's a really good thing if they are now lower in price. Either way I would not consider the economy ruined because certain items are now cheaper.

[Pifil.5193]

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:Honestly yeah, it's total BS. It DOES harm the economy, and it DOES harm other players.

I used to farm Elaborate Totems, manually. They were like 24 silver each, and I would load up on magic find food, get a boost etc and go to my farm spot. I'd run around killing any mobs and it was decent money, until I started noticing dreaded Minion Masters standing in a certain spot (just the right place to get their pets to quickly tag and kill the maximized amount of mobs). They were doing the same thing as me, except I was putting in real effort and time, while they were AFK abusing a game mechanic.

How much are Elaborate Totems now? 10 silver.

Tell me more about how it doesn't hurt the economy or players.

Their current price is 19s/20s actually, not 10s but what makes you think that the drop in Elaborate Totem price was caused by AFK farmers rather than a general lack of sinks for them and a drop in the price of Cleric's exotics?

For example, you can buy a full set of Mhenlo's exotic Cleric light armour for less than 2g whereas a single Cleric's Intricate Gossamer Insignia costs over 5g.

[Chay.7852]

I don't think its okay that someone who doesn't play the game properly is getting any sort of loot.But this is happening for a long time meanwhile. I do report them - cause there is not more that i can do - but it is ANet's decision to do or not to do something in this case. I keep seeing these "afk-necros" in many places so i doubt something really happens. Look at the ibogas (wherever you have iboga groups - you have some necros afk-ing there).I even saw a group of them stacking at the broodmother champion in Frostgorge Sound. I mean... other ppl organise themselves in groups to kill those champs or kill them alone for the fun or what-ever. I dont think "its working as intended" that someone who is watching netflix or is simply not in front of the computer should be rewarded for having some skills on auto cast.And imho removing the loot from certain (farmed) mobs (like Bitterfrost spiders) is not the answer - it cant be.

[kharmin.7683]

@Rasimir.6239 said:If that's your only problem, then just grab your dust elsewhere.

I think the point is that one shouldn't have to...?

[Patchwreck.2357]

@LaHire.5934 said:

@"Patchwreck.2357" said:See a bunch of necro's on the corner and automatically assume they're do'in wrong "CALL THE COPS ON THOSE NECROS!!!.

Give me a break with your sarcasm, we all know what 3-4+ necro, stacked on a predetermined/popular spot for rare materials farming, are currently doing,I find it very annoying, since the vast majority of the people are actually working to progress(economically) in this game, while some others exploit some of the poorly designed mechanics to enrich themselves, while doing NOTHING. This couldn't be more clear.We should be able to report them swiftly, and be done with it. I don't plan on writing tickets over and over, even less considering the vague/ridiculous answers I receive, it almost feels like a copy-pasted message.

I understand people wanting to take a break... but thats life man, money doesn't fill your pockets when you are sleeping or eating or smoking, you've got to work for it, period.

I don't know all the necros or if any are botting their answers but mods check on us all the time and if we don't respond you either get logged or in trouble. I've talked to mods before and they say inactive farming is ok as long as you are present you're not afk. As far as I know most necros are split screening kids videos/reading and chatting with guildies. If people ask I say afk farming as a short answer but I that's only if he's sleeping otherwise the few responses I give people wile he's awake I use on my guilds. I think I make about 3 gold a day on average if I play like that most of the day but random good drops can push it up a few gold every once and a wile. Its either this or watch people come and go at the bank.

They just did a sweep of botters and I didn't notice any necros vanish so I'd assume they are all parents that you are seeing.

See a bunch of necro's on the corner and automatically assume they're do'in wrong "CALL THE COPS ON THOSE NECROS!!!. So Na Na Na Na Na it still fits.

Edit: They also like to turn off everyone's pets from time to time to see if we're paying attention.

[Lonecap.4105]

@Pifil.5193 said:

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:Honestly yeah, it's total BS. It DOES harm the economy, and it DOES harm other players.

I used to farm Elaborate Totems, manually. They were like 24 silver each, and I would load up on magic find food, get a boost etc and go to my farm spot. I'd run around killing any mobs and it was decent money, until I started noticing dreaded Minion Masters standing in a certain spot (just the right place to get their pets to quickly tag and kill the maximized amount of mobs). They were doing the same thing as me, except I was putting in real effort and time, while they were AFK abusing a game mechanic.

How much are Elaborate Totems now? 10 silver.

Tell me more about how it doesn't hurt the economy or players.

Their current price is 19s/20s actually, not 10s but what makes you think that the drop in Elaborate Totem price was caused by AFK farmers rather than a general lack of sinks for them and a drop in the price of Cleric's exotics?

For example, you can buy a full set of Mhenlo's exotic Cleric light armour for less than 2g whereas a single Cleric's Intricate Gossamer Insignia costs over 5g.

Oh... my bad. I said Elaborate Totems, but I meant ENGRAVED Totems (T4).

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:Like the ones in Queensdale farming the bandit camp of all places for months now..My husband started playing GW2 a couple of weeks ago (after almost 6 years of our daughters and myself telling him how great the game is 8) ), and he had his first run-in with an afk minion necro in that cave just a couple of days ago. He was going through the cave, killing bandits left and right (for their bags, as he doesn't have much gold to grab crafting materials for his leveling ftp character from the trading post yet), and got whispered by the afk necro and threatened to be reported because the veteran in said cave, once in combat, decided to attack the afk necro rather than my husband fighting the other bandits a couple of times 8) .

Despite being a veteran of several MMOs, he had to ask me if this was a usual occurance in this game and if he had anything to fear for being reported (for killing mobs near an afk player ;) ).

Guessing that was not an AFK farmer but someone taking a timeout answering a call of nature or a phone call etc..

Entertainingly, to me, I have semi-regularly gotten whispers about how I'm AFK-farming, evil, and will be reported ... but only when I'm actively playing the game, interacting and moving. Never gotten one when I have stepped away for a couple minutes to deal with business.

This is, in part, why I advise people not to take it on themselves to try and police this. Players are honestly pretty bad at determining if someone is botting, AFK farming, or whatever, while ANet have vastly better tools and capabilities. Just report and move on if you think they are doing something wrong.

It's certainly much better than threatening them, something that is a reportable action against you, and given the tone of the occasional whispers, they are very much actionable, since they usually start with "kitten kitten kitten kitten kitten you kittening kitten."

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:Honestly yeah, it's total BS. It DOES harm the economy, and it DOES harm other players.

I used to farm Elaborate Totems, manually. They were like 24 silver each, and I would load up on magic find food, get a boost etc and go to my farm spot. I'd run around killing any mobs and it was decent money, until I started noticing dreaded Minion Masters standing in a certain spot (just the right place to get their pets to quickly tag and kill the maximized amount of mobs). They were doing the same thing as me, except I was putting in real effort and time, while they were AFK abusing a game mechanic.

How much are Elaborate Totems now? 10 silver.

Tell me more about how it doesn't hurt the economy or players.

Do you have any source proving that drop of price is caused exclusively by AFK farming? (spoiler: you don't). Game economy died after PoF and it has NOTHING to do with AFK farming. It's too uncommon and too slow.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

If you think someone is engaged in AFK farming, report them (either via the in-game /report tool, using 'botting' from the pull down or via a support ticket). And then let ANet figure out whether it's an issue. It's up to them, not us, to determine whether there's an issue detrimental to the game.

---

• Absent farming: not allowed.
• Inattentive farming: allowed

It is usually impossible for players to determine which of the above is going on. The testing involves: does the player respond to official whispers and/or if a Game Master moves their character, do they notice (and if so, how do they respond)?

[Lonecap.4105]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:If you think someone is engaged in AFK farming, report them (either via the in-game /report tool, using 'botting' from the pull down or via a support ticket). And then let ANet figure out whether it's an issue. It's up to them, not us, to determine whether there's an issue detrimental to the game.

---

• Absent farming: not allowed.
• Inattentive farming: allowed

It is usually impossible for players to determine which of the above is going on. The testing involves: does the player respond to official whispers and/or if a Game Master moves their character, do they notice (and if so, how do they respond)?

In my opinion, they should change pet behaviour so that pets will only ever attack if the pet owner has used at least one skill in combat.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:If you think someone is engaged in AFK farming, report them (either via the in-game /report tool, using 'botting' from the pull down or via a support ticket). And then let ANet figure out whether it's an issue. It's up to them, not us, to determine whether there's an issue detrimental to the game.

---

• Absent farming: not allowed.
• Inattentive farming: allowed

It is usually impossible for players to determine which of the above is going on. The testing involves: does the player respond to official whispers and/or if a Game Master moves their character, do they notice (and if so, how do they respond)?

What's more efficient? Outright banning the practice, or having to waste man-hours testing their behaviour manually?It does have an impact on players and Arena Net has shown time and time again that it doesn't matter that much to them if it has an impact on players as long as it's not overly impacting their bottom line.

It took months of constant outrage and complaints in the forum, to get a batch of token suspensions... They perma-banned people for exploiting a NPC that was underpricing it's items at launch, but these people have been proven to have used hacks, will be allowed to return in 4 months from now.

Long gone are the days of @"Chris Cleary.8017" publically "executing" cheaters.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:If you think someone is engaged in AFK farming, report them (either via the in-game

/report

tool, using 'botting' from the pull down

or

via a support ticket). And then let ANet figure out whether it's an issue. It's up to them, not us, to determine whether there's an issue detrimental to the game.

---

• Absent farming: not allowed.
• Inattentive farming: allowed

It is usually impossible for players to determine which of the above is going on. The testing involves: does the player respond to

official

whispers and/or if a Game Master moves their character, do they notice (and if so, how do they respond)?

What's more efficient? Outright banning the practice, or having to waste man-hours testing their behaviour manually?That's easy: spending a few staff hours testing behavior. Because if it really mattered to the game, they would change the policy and the policing methods.

It does have an impact on

players

and Arena Net has shown time and time again that it doesn't matter that much to them if it has an impact on players as long as it's not overly impacting their bottom line.

Just repeating that it has an important impact doesn't mean that it does. The biggest impact is psychological: some people get really irked that people earn gold in the game while watching TV at the same time. But Istani active farming and Silverwastes affect the economy far more. (That's simply to establish based on how prices changed when AB multiloot became a thing, when it was announced that it was nerfed, and when it was actually nerfed — the economy changed in easily measurable ways. In contrast, people have always farmed inattentively; it hasn't had an impact on anything close to that scale.)

It took months of constant outrage and complaints in the forum, to get a batch of token suspensions...About what? You're comparing apples and refrigerators. ANet isn't going to suspend anyone just because of complaints; they are going to do it when it matters to the health of the game.

They perma-banned people for exploiting a NPC that was underpricing it's items at launch,Well, no. They started off with permanent bans, but weakened that to short-term suspensions if people promised to delete their ill-gotten gains. And they only went after serial exploiters: people who did it 50+ times. And this wasn't the only occasion.But: the big difference is that ANet treated it as an exploit. Inattentive farming is not an exploit, no matter how much some people wish it to be.

but these people have been proven to have used hacks, will be allowed to return in 4 months from now.Again, apples & refrigerators. People who had one of several cheat programs running while GW2 was up were suspended for 6 months. None of these people were proven to have used the hacks. ANet punished people for having lockpicks, not for opening any locks.

But that has nothing whatsoever to do with inattentive farming: there is nothing against the rules, no matter how interpreted, that prohibits inattentive farming. In fact, ANet explicitly allows it.

Long gone are the days of @"Chris Cleary.8017" publically "executing" cheaters.Turns out: that didn't slow down the cheating, so it was ineffective as a tool.

tl;dr some people don't like inattentive farming, but that doesn't make it bad for the game.update: fixed major typo (thanks @SlippyCheeze.5483 )

[Lambent.6375]

Only thing that annoys me about idle farmers is anet stealth nerfing drop rates in some areas due to them. (Allegedly)

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:If you think someone is engaged in AFK farming, report them (either via the in-game

/report

tool, using 'botting' from the pull down

or

via a support ticket). And then let ANet figure out whether it's an issue. It's up to them, not us, to determine whether there's an issue detrimental to the game.

---

• Absent farming: not allowed.
• Inattentive farming: allowed

It is usually impossible for players to determine which of the above is going on. The testing involves: does the player respond to

official

whispers and/or if a Game Master moves their character, do they notice (and if so, how do they respond)?

What's more efficient? Outright banning the practice, or having to waste man-hours testing their behaviour manually?That's easy: spending a few staff hours testing behavior. Because if it really mattered to the game, they would change the policy and the policing methods.

Yah, this. So much this. If your assumption is that the ANet staff have not thought long and hard about this, or that they have not debated every one of these ideas at length, or that they have not investigated actual numbers to base their decisions on, you ... should probably reconsider the assumption. Assume they are smart, motivated, and want what is best for the game. (Which doesn't mean always right, or that their idea of what is best is always right, but they try.)

We know their decision. We don't know why, or what considerations went into it, but we can be confident there was a why, not just a coin flip.

but these people have been proven to have used hacks, will be allowed to return in 4 months from now.Again, apples & refrigerators. People who had one of several cheat programs

running

while GW2 was up were suspended for 6 months. None of these people were

proven

to have used the hacks. ANet punished people for having lockpicks, not for opening any locks.

The other thing to remember is this: a six month ban is a huge punishment, especially if you have spent real world money in the game. That is going to hurt, and the fact the bans happened is also going to make more people expect they will be caught if they cheat -- especially the ones who did get caught.

Letting people come back after the punishment isn't necessarily a bad thing. At least some of them have learned a valuable lesson: cheating gets caught, and getting caught has significant consequences. They will not return to cheating.

Others will not come back, or will come back and cheat again. The second time they get caught, it's probably going to be a lot less forgiving ... but, honestly, it doesn't really matter that much. People are deterred by their expected chance of getting caught, not be the severity of the punishment if they do.

Completely aside, that is also why I have pushed ANet to publish weekly or monthly counts of actions taken. Seeing in writing that 753 accounts were banned for RMT is a simple, and effective, way to tell people: engage in RMT, and you will get caught. Maybe not this time, but all those people did, and do you think your luck will last forever? Have you already been caught, and is the ban hammer hovering over your head right now?

Perception is, simply put, the most powerful thing here. You want people to be reminded that cheating is caught, and punishments are applied, and telling them how often it happens will help. (It'll also put to bed the whole "reporting does nothing" meme, or at least replace it with a "reporting does nothing, and the numbers are made up" version.)

Long gone are the days of @"Chris Cleary.8017" publically "executing" cheaters.Turns out: that didn't slow down the cheating, so it was ineffective as a tool.tl;dr some people don't like inattentive cheating, but that doesn't make it bad for the game.

I think you meant "inattentive farming"?

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:Honestly yeah, it's total BS. It DOES harm the economy, and it DOES harm other players.

I used to farm Elaborate Totems, manually. They were like 24 silver each, and I would load up on magic find food, get a boost etc and go to my farm spot. I'd run around killing any mobs and it was decent money, until I started noticing dreaded Minion Masters standing in a certain spot (just the right place to get their pets to quickly tag and kill the maximized amount of mobs). They were doing the same thing as me, except I was putting in real effort and time, while they were AFK abusing a game mechanic.

How much are Elaborate Totems now? 10 silver.

Tell me more about how it doesn't hurt the economy or players.

Do you have any source proving that drop of price is caused exclusively by AFK farming? (spoiler: you don't). Game economy died after PoF and it has NOTHING to do with AFK farming. It's too uncommon and too slow.

Too uncommon and too slow... really.Every map has them and many are massed around the same fast respawns.... it's prolific. If you choose to ignore it that's on you but yes it does have an effect on the economy if you choose to look in to it properly. As for being slow.. when your logged 24/7/ 365 farming the same stuff that becomes irrelevant that's why it's afk farming rather than run around play the game farming.You can bury your head in the sand if you want but the issue won't fix itself.

[Obtena.7952]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@derd.6413 said:It's not allowed but unless they remove minions (probably ranger pets 2) from the game it won't change.

And it's not that profitable or damaging to the economy. (Unless there's a farm spot i'm unaware of)

Lol … if it's not that profitable they wouldn't be doing it in the numbers they do.. of course it is and yes it does have an effect on the economy.MMO minion hacks is back in full force, you only have to read a few of the hacker forum sites to know that.The ban wave appears to of been little more than ANET's annual PR exercise to show face..

Unless they begin to take this more seriously it will just get out of control again fast, it spoils the game for many of us. and by serious I mean proper perma bans along with any alt accounts they also have I say.

Hold on, that's not necessarily true. I can imagine that the primary reason it's done is because it's easy, not because it's highly profitable. Your assessment here is emotional, not fact's based. It's unclear how the effect of some AFK farmers affects your game vs. legit ones, other than the fact you don't like seeing them.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@derd.6413 said:It's not allowed but unless they remove minions (probably ranger pets 2) from the game it won't change.

And it's not that profitable or damaging to the economy. (Unless there's a farm spot i'm unaware of)

Lol … if it's not that profitable they wouldn't be doing it in the numbers they do.. of course it is and yes it does have an effect on the economy.MMO minion hacks is back in full force, you only have to read a few of the hacker forum sites to know that.The ban wave appears to of been little more than ANET's annual PR exercise to show face..

Unless they begin to take this more seriously it will just get out of control again fast, it spoils the game for many of us. and by serious I mean proper perma bans along with any alt accounts they also have I say.

Hold on, that's not necessarily true. I can imagine that the primary reason it's done is because it's easy, not because it's highly profitable. Your assessment here is emotional, not fact's based. It's unclear how the effect of some AFK farmers affects your game vs. legit ones, other than the fact you don't like seeing them.

Your absolutely right.. I don't like seeing them.. seeing masses of MM's covering parts of a map to fast farm respawns is not nice to look at.. for me at least and likely many others. As for its effect.. its not about how it affects me or you or anyone in particular, its about how it affects the game economy in general and yes its done because it's easy, effortless and profitable.As for it being emotional, yeah maybe but actually I don't tend to buy or sell that much in the game I prefer to be self sufficient rather than reliant upon others.. I prefer to treat GW2 as a game not a business, I get all the job satisfaction running my own business.

[Obtena.7952]

That's just being sensational. There are not many places that are good AFK farming spots, so the impact to you is honestly not that big. You have no idea what the impact AFK farmers have on the game economy, so your just guessing. You're whole argument for permanently banning these people is visual clutter in a very few select and very small areas of the game ... that's nonsense.

I mean, if you prefer to be self-sufficient, these people have NO impact on your game whatsoever. That's just indicating to me you don't use the TP ... where whatever small impact these people have is felt. Maybe you should clam down a bit here.