Profession for PvE player getting into WvW/PvP? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Profession for PvE player getting into WvW/PvP?

Just getting into pvp and trying to decide on what profession would be worth the time to get good with. I'm aware it's a rock/paper/scissors depending on the profession/build/player skill but it seems some classes do have more built in potential for pvp than others. I've been considering warrior, but they seem like they might have a low skill ceiling and I would be crippling myself in the long run, but I could be wrong. I will probably play some of all the professions in PvP/WvW just to learn how to play against them but I'm not sure what would be best to really master.

No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

Comments

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    play what you want dood. no point in video games if youre not enjoying them.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • I agree with Stand. Play what you have the most fun at, it's a game if you're not having fun what are you doing?

    #nornmodeisbestmode

  • LaGranse.8652LaGranse.8652 Member ✭✭✭

    Take one of the classes you enjoy to play in PvE. Not only will you then play a class you enjoy, you will also have a good idea of how the class works.

    PvP and WvW will open up new unexplored areas of the class in terms of different weapons/skills and traits that while horrible in PvE scenarios work great when fighting other people.

    The skill cealing of a class is less about the class and more about the player using said class (although some classes are harder than others). PvP/WvW combat is not some skill rotation set in stone. You need to react to what your opponents are doing, know what to dodge, interupt, when to cleanse, etc. Best way to learn this is playing the other classes. You don't need to be a god on them, just enough to learn their strenghts and weaknesses, what tricks they have up their slieve and how you can counter them.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2018

    As other posters mention, play a class you are familiar with. Unless it is renegade. Do not play renegade.

    It is not really rock paper scissor. Classes that are hard countered by condi damage, power burst or boon corruption cannot function in PvP. That said, trying to solo condi mirage on power rev is an excersice in futility. Warrior, ranger and guardian can be good classes for someone new in PvP, as they can deal with most enemy builds.

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would ignore the advise to "play what you like" and substitute it with "Start with something you know"..... and then go into mental shock at the realization that you didn't know anything about the class until you've seen what someone does with it in WvW/PvP. PvP and WvW have the highest build diversity because "Top DPS" isn't the only requirement needed for success. The HP thresholds are lower, the targets are harder to hit, most can recover themselves if hurt, and nearly all of them will fight back. Its the antithesis of potato "whats AOE?" NPC AI behavior and skill sets. Think of the Dervishs in Istan, and how much of a pain those are to fight.... no imagine it always attacking..... thats what you need to be ready for.

    This isn't to scare people off.... its to give context that Shut down is just as important as damage. Self sustain is a must, and group sustain becomes more important the bigger the fights get. Group Comps matter, and does having skills that work if well coordinated. A LOT of rangers getting into WvW try to run Bear/Bow like they would anything else; but not realizing how badly it under-utilizes they're already limited options as a mostly single target class. Even if you don't like the Meta, its still good to know what it is, because it tells you where people are likely to be weakest. Zerg builds differ from Roaming builds, and the potential of classes in each varies heavily.

    Also don't make the mistake of thinking that a high skill ceiling is good. You'll find most builds can't be particularly complicated due to the enemy not standing still long enough for a rotation to matter. Instead, you'll find most of the important skills to be universal across all classes and builds..... positioning, counter matrix, opportunity cost and odds calculations. Zergs tend to be slug fests, and are more focused on group comp for coverage. Any lacking roles in a group will give the enemy team something easy to pressure, and force a collapse. In the case of roaming, counter matrices pay a bigger role in odds calculation, and throwing in occasional psychological warfare to throw opponents into confusion. Most people run meta builds, and meta builds tend to be played the same way...... thats a huge advantage if you know what the counters are for both classes, and flipping it so they'll not want to fight you anymore. Unless you're Mirage.... Mirage just wins by default. So its not just knowing who pick fights with, but when/how to do it.

    With that out of the way..... its usually recommended to pick tankier builds at first, so you can learn how your opponents try to do things. Even the glassy builds will invest in defensive traits and stats to avoid being downed in a single burst. That said... not all classes are created equal. Given how the meta changes every major update (nearly always because the Devs are directly fiddling with PvP/WvW balance), the suitability of classes are in constant flux. While every class has a viable option, it might not be in an area you want to be in. For instance, high single target damage classes are undervalued in zergs due to stupid amounts of sustain; but in roaming, high single target damage and shut down is the norm. However, Roaming is also lot harder because of how they're organized. Solo roamers are rare because roamers they don't like a fair fight, and most will never engage unless they think they win outright. Roaming groups (2-5) do so to further stack the odds, and will often run complimenting builds so the enemy has no opportunity to fight back. When you look at zerg comps, its mostly group orientated support and massive amounts of AOE damage and hard CCs. The only outliers are utility builds, such as Spell Breaker and Mesmer/Chorno, used almost solely for tactical value.

    The reason I opened with "Start with what you know", is because you're going to have to relearn how to play. And it'll help if you at least already know how a class works internally.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @starlinvf.1358 said:
    I would ignore the advise to "play what you like" and substitute it with "Start with something you know"..... and then go into mental shock at the realization that you didn't know anything about the class until you've seen what someone does with it in WvW/PvP. PvP and WvW have the highest build diversity because "Top DPS" isn't the only requirement needed for success. The HP thresholds are lower, the targets are harder to hit, most can recover themselves if hurt, and nearly all of them will fight back. Its the antithesis of potato "whats AOE?" NPC AI behavior and skill sets. Think of the Dervishs in Istan, and how much of a pain those are to fight.... no imagine it always attacking..... thats what you need to be ready for.

    This isn't to scare people off.... its to give context that Shut down is just as important as damage. Self sustain is a must, and group sustain becomes more important the bigger the fights get. Group Comps matter, and does having skills that work if well coordinated. A LOT of rangers getting into WvW try to run Bear/Bow like they would anything else; but not realizing how badly it under-utilizes they're already limited options as a mostly single target class. Even if you don't like the Meta, its still good to know what it is, because it tells you where people are likely to be weakest. Zerg builds differ from Roaming builds, and the potential of classes in each varies heavily.

    Also don't make the mistake of thinking that a high skill ceiling is good. You'll find most builds can't be particularly complicated due to the enemy not standing still long enough for a rotation to matter. Instead, you'll find most of the important skills to be universal across all classes and builds..... positioning, counter matrix, opportunity cost and odds calculations. Zergs tend to be slug fests, and are more focused on group comp for coverage. Any lacking roles in a group will give the enemy team something easy to pressure, and force a collapse. In the case of roaming, counter matrices pay a bigger role in odds calculation, and throwing in occasional psychological warfare to throw opponents into confusion. Most people run meta builds, and meta builds tend to be played the same way...... thats a huge advantage if you know what the counters are for both classes, and flipping it so they'll not want to fight you anymore. Unless you're Mirage.... Mirage just wins by default. So its not just knowing who pick fights with, but when/how to do it.

    With that out of the way..... its usually recommended to pick tankier builds at first, so you can learn how your opponents try to do things. Even the glassy builds will invest in defensive traits and stats to avoid being downed in a single burst. That said... not all classes are created equal. Given how the meta changes every major update (nearly always because the Devs are directly fiddling with PvP/WvW balance), the suitability of classes are in constant flux. While every class has a viable option, it might not be in an area you want to be in. For instance, high single target damage classes are undervalued in zergs due to stupid amounts of sustain; but in roaming, high single target damage and shut down is the norm. However, Roaming is also lot harder because of how they're organized. Solo roamers are rare because roamers they don't like a fair fight, and most will never engage unless they think they win outright. Roaming groups (2-5) do so to further stack the odds, and will often run complimenting builds so the enemy has no opportunity to fight back. When you look at zerg comps, its mostly group orientated support and massive amounts of AOE damage and hard CCs. The only outliers are utility builds, such as Spell Breaker and Mesmer/Chorno, used almost solely for tactical value.

    The reason I opened with "Start with what you know", is because you're going to have to relearn how to play. And it'll help if you at least already know how a class works internally.

    great post, can agree with almost all of it, but as one of those rare soloroamers, apart from my guildraid activity, i like fair fights alot more than thise i outright win from the start, where is the fun in that? solo roaming in the last few years becamw a hassle tho, because of those group roamers you mentioned earlier, chasing solo ppl over the whole map just for the "easy kill"

    would recommend newer players to look for a group because solo play gets frustrating quickly, especially on a class without stealth, but keep in mind to not chase each and every player to death, ruining the fun for other ppl by just chasing them with greater numbers over the whole map is just lame

  • Chuck.2864Chuck.2864 Member ✭✭✭

    Don't find a group, roam solo if you want to be any good at this game. Don't be one of those people who chase solo roamers (the actually good roamers) with a group of 5 then melt to that same person when he happens to find you alone.

    Go solo. Lose 1v1's, die a lot, accept your deaths instead of making a run for that tower, it's part of the game. It's a great way to improve mechanically because there's no crutch, and I promise you will improve and much more quickly than you think. By actually challenging yourself you'll reach a point where you can sometimes even 1v2 the scrub "roamers" who run in groups of 5.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    Don't find a group, roam solo if you want to be any good at this game. Don't be one of those people who chase solo roamers (the actually good roamers) with a group of 5 then melt to that same person when he happens to find you alone.

    Go solo. Lose 1v1's, die a lot, accept your deaths instead of making a run for that tower, it's part of the game. It's a great way to improve mechanically because there's no crutch, and I promise you will improve and much more quickly than you think. By actually challenging yourself you'll reach a point where you can sometimes even 1v2 the scrub "roamers" who run in groups of 5.

    it takes some time to "git gud" like this and many ppl dont have the endurance to just die over and over again, op youd be better off learning the basics of fighting when you go to duel spots to challenge other ppl, they will down you but dont finish and you get to fight many times in a row without porting to spawn every time and you will most likely get more fair fights than with running around solo, many will also give tipps on how to do better if you ask nicely

  • Chuck.2864Chuck.2864 Member ✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    Don't find a group, roam solo if you want to be any good at this game. Don't be one of those people who chase solo roamers (the actually good roamers) with a group of 5 then melt to that same person when he happens to find you alone.

    Go solo. Lose 1v1's, die a lot, accept your deaths instead of making a run for that tower, it's part of the game. It's a great way to improve mechanically because there's no crutch, and I promise you will improve and much more quickly than you think. By actually challenging yourself you'll reach a point where you can sometimes even 1v2 the scrub "roamers" who run in groups of 5.

    it takes some time to "git gud" like this and many ppl dont have the endurance to just die over and over again, op youd be better off learning the basics of fighting when you go to duel spots to challenge other ppl, they will down you but dont finish and you get to fight many times in a row without porting to spawn every time and you will most likely get more fair fights than with running around solo, many will also give tipps on how to do better if you ask nicely

    It really doesn't, the bar isn't set very high in WvW, most players are simply quite bad and that's the truth. Any high Gold PvP player is likely mechanically better than 90% of the players he will encounter in WvW. That's not a level that's very hard to reach.

    I agree though that duels are a good way to learn and git gud, and sadly WvW is where you find duels. I'd suggest the 1v1 hotjoin rooms but these are typically filled by the same tryhard players every day who are already really, really good at 1v1.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    Don't find a group, roam solo if you want to be any good at this game. Don't be one of those people who chase solo roamers (the actually good roamers) with a group of 5 then melt to that same person when he happens to find you alone.

    Go solo. Lose 1v1's, die a lot, accept your deaths instead of making a run for that tower, it's part of the game. It's a great way to improve mechanically because there's no crutch, and I promise you will improve and much more quickly than you think. By actually challenging yourself you'll reach a point where you can sometimes even 1v2 the scrub "roamers" who run in groups of 5.

    it takes some time to "git gud" like this and many ppl dont have the endurance to just die over and over again, op youd be better off learning the basics of fighting when you go to duel spots to challenge other ppl, they will down you but dont finish and you get to fight many times in a row without porting to spawn every time and you will most likely get more fair fights than with running around solo, many will also give tipps on how to do better if you ask nicely

    It really doesn't, the bar isn't set very high in WvW, most players are simply quite bad and that's the truth. Any high Gold PvP player is likely mechanically better than 90% of the players he will encounter in WvW. That's not a level that's very hard to reach.

    I agree though that duels are a good way to learn and git gud, and sadly WvW is where you find duels. I'd suggest the 1v1 hotjoin rooms but these are typically filled by the same tryhard players every day who are already really, really good at 1v1.

    So I'm guessing profession isn't too important then, just raw skill/knowledge? If that's the case I'll just stick with warrior cause I like the theme. Say though if you had a warrior and theif roughly equal in player skill with the most optimal build for each they would have an equal chance fo winning in theory? Or is it more like that one will just stomp the other into the dirt because certain professions outclass others at higher levels of play? I don't mind practice and reflecting, I just don't want to invest a ton of time into warrior specifically if it turns out to have a low skill ceiling that cripples me once I reach high levels of pvp.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • Chuck.2864Chuck.2864 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    Don't find a group, roam solo if you want to be any good at this game. Don't be one of those people who chase solo roamers (the actually good roamers) with a group of 5 then melt to that same person when he happens to find you alone.

    Go solo. Lose 1v1's, die a lot, accept your deaths instead of making a run for that tower, it's part of the game. It's a great way to improve mechanically because there's no crutch, and I promise you will improve and much more quickly than you think. By actually challenging yourself you'll reach a point where you can sometimes even 1v2 the scrub "roamers" who run in groups of 5.

    it takes some time to "git gud" like this and many ppl dont have the endurance to just die over and over again, op youd be better off learning the basics of fighting when you go to duel spots to challenge other ppl, they will down you but dont finish and you get to fight many times in a row without porting to spawn every time and you will most likely get more fair fights than with running around solo, many will also give tipps on how to do better if you ask nicely

    It really doesn't, the bar isn't set very high in WvW, most players are simply quite bad and that's the truth. Any high Gold PvP player is likely mechanically better than 90% of the players he will encounter in WvW. That's not a level that's very hard to reach.

    I agree though that duels are a good way to learn and git gud, and sadly WvW is where you find duels. I'd suggest the 1v1 hotjoin rooms but these are typically filled by the same tryhard players every day who are already really, really good at 1v1.

    So I'm guessing profession isn't too important then, just raw skill/knowledge? If that's the case I'll just stick with warrior cause I like the theme. Say though if you had a warrior and theif roughly equal in player skill with the most optimal build for each they would have an equal chance fo winning in theory? Or is it more like that one will just stomp the other into the dirt because certain professions outclass others at higher levels of play? I don't mind practice and reflecting, I just don't want to invest a ton of time into warrior specifically if it turns out to have a low skill ceiling that cripples me once I reach high levels of pvp.

    What are we talking about here? PvP or WvW? 1v1 ability doesn't make or break a class in PvP, and there are more considerations to 1v1's in PvP than just who would win, unlike in WvW roaming. For instance I play Rev and in WvW I will take a 1v1 with any Warrior any day because it's a good matchup for me and I can win most of them, but how do I win? A lot of kiting and in the case of Spellbreaker it takes a while to work through all the sustain and defenses. This makes it a bad 1v1 for me to take in PvP because time is of the essence and more importantly because I can't really contest the node against the SB.

    In both PvP and WvW roaming, every class is currently viable. Warrior is great in both, SB is very strong in PvP and if you want a more yolo build for roaming you can play core with Axe or maybe stick with SB but bring out the Hammer. Warrior is a good 1v1 class. Some classes and builds have favorable matchups against others, it's less about skill ceiling and more about a soft rock paper scissors thing. Genuine HARD counters are rare but they do exist - pewpew Rangers will wreck a Scourge 9 times out of 10 regardless of skill level, ditto for condi Mirage against a power Herald. But really they're few and far between and most 1v1's will come down to player skill, where skill ceiling isn't very different between the classes (with maybe the exception of Necro which simply doesn't have a spec that's designed for 1v1 against players who know what they're doing) but skill FLOOR is. Warrior has a low skill floor and is a good place to start.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    Don't find a group, roam solo if you want to be any good at this game. Don't be one of those people who chase solo roamers (the actually good roamers) with a group of 5 then melt to that same person when he happens to find you alone.

    Go solo. Lose 1v1's, die a lot, accept your deaths instead of making a run for that tower, it's part of the game. It's a great way to improve mechanically because there's no crutch, and I promise you will improve and much more quickly than you think. By actually challenging yourself you'll reach a point where you can sometimes even 1v2 the scrub "roamers" who run in groups of 5.

    it takes some time to "git gud" like this and many ppl dont have the endurance to just die over and over again, op youd be better off learning the basics of fighting when you go to duel spots to challenge other ppl, they will down you but dont finish and you get to fight many times in a row without porting to spawn every time and you will most likely get more fair fights than with running around solo, many will also give tipps on how to do better if you ask nicely

    It really doesn't, the bar isn't set very high in WvW, most players are simply quite bad and that's the truth. Any high Gold PvP player is likely mechanically better than 90% of the players he will encounter in WvW. That's not a level that's very hard to reach.

    I agree though that duels are a good way to learn and git gud, and sadly WvW is where you find duels. I'd suggest the 1v1 hotjoin rooms but these are typically filled by the same tryhard players every day who are already really, really good at 1v1.

    So I'm guessing profession isn't too important then, just raw skill/knowledge? If that's the case I'll just stick with warrior cause I like the theme. Say though if you had a warrior and theif roughly equal in player skill with the most optimal build for each they would have an equal chance fo winning in theory? Or is it more like that one will just stomp the other into the dirt because certain professions outclass others at higher levels of play? I don't mind practice and reflecting, I just don't want to invest a ton of time into warrior specifically if it turns out to have a low skill ceiling that cripples me once I reach high levels of pvp.

    What are we talking about here? PvP or WvW? 1v1 ability doesn't make or break a class in PvP, and there are more considerations to 1v1's in PvP than just who would win, unlike in WvW roaming. For instance I play Rev and in WvW I will take a 1v1 with any Warrior any day because it's a good matchup for me and I can win most of them, but how do I win? A lot of kiting and in the case of Spellbreaker it takes a while to work through all the sustain and defenses. This makes it a bad 1v1 for me to take in PvP because time is of the essence and more importantly because I can't really contest the node against the SB.

    In both PvP and WvW roaming, every class is currently viable. Warrior is great in both, SB is very strong in PvP and if you want a more yolo build for roaming you can play core with Axe or maybe stick with SB but bring out the Hammer. Warrior is a good 1v1 class. Some classes and builds have favorable matchups against others, it's less about skill ceiling and more about a soft rock paper scissors thing. Genuine HARD counters are rare but they do exist - pewpew Rangers will wreck a Scourge 9 times out of 10 regardless of skill level, ditto for condi Mirage against a power Herald. But really they're few and far between and most 1v1's will come down to player skill, where skill ceiling isn't very different between the classes (with maybe the exception of Necro which simply doesn't have a spec that's designed for 1v1 against players who know what they're doing) but skill FLOOR is. Warrior has a low skill floor and is a good place to start.

    I'm doing both, WvW roaming (small amount of zerging) and starting in on sPvP. I'll stick with warrior the, I was worried it would be limiting since it's a low skill floor class that's relatively easy to predict skills.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭

    It's probably been said but ill chip in, If it's your first time into WvW, use Firebrand or Scourge as these for me are the easiest of the classes, if you want to play something a little more tricky then Herald and Weaver are your classes to take, you can also take Chrono and Spellbreaker aswell :D

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:
    It's probably been said but ill chip in, If it's your first time into WvW, use Firebrand or Scourge as these for me are the easiest of the classes, if you want to play something a little more tricky then Herald and Weaver are your classes to take, you can also take Chrono and Spellbreaker aswell :D

    he said hes mostly small scaling, wouldnt recomed scourge (too slow) and firebrand (rather hard for soloplay to kill stuff)

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    Don't find a group, roam solo if you want to be any good at this game. Don't be one of those people who chase solo roamers (the actually good roamers) with a group of 5 then melt to that same person when he happens to find you alone.

    Go solo. Lose 1v1's, die a lot, accept your deaths instead of making a run for that tower, it's part of the game. It's a great way to improve mechanically because there's no crutch, and I promise you will improve and much more quickly than you think. By actually challenging yourself you'll reach a point where you can sometimes even 1v2 the scrub "roamers" who run in groups of 5.

    it takes some time to "git gud" like this and many ppl dont have the endurance to just die over and over again, op youd be better off learning the basics of fighting when you go to duel spots to challenge other ppl, they will down you but dont finish and you get to fight many times in a row without porting to spawn every time and you will most likely get more fair fights than with running around solo, many will also give tipps on how to do better if you ask nicely

    It really doesn't, the bar isn't set very high in WvW, most players are simply quite bad and that's the truth. Any high Gold PvP player is likely mechanically better than 90% of the players he will encounter in WvW. That's not a level that's very hard to reach.

    I agree though that duels are a good way to learn and git gud, and sadly WvW is where you find duels. I'd suggest the 1v1 hotjoin rooms but these are typically filled by the same tryhard players every day who are already really, really good at 1v1.

    So I'm guessing profession isn't too important then, just raw skill/knowledge? If that's the case I'll just stick with warrior cause I like the theme. Say though if you had a warrior and theif roughly equal in player skill with the most optimal build for each they would have an equal chance fo winning in theory? Or is it more like that one will just stomp the other into the dirt because certain professions outclass others at higher levels of play? I don't mind practice and reflecting, I just don't want to invest a ton of time into warrior specifically if it turns out to have a low skill ceiling that cripples me once I reach high levels of pvp.

    What are we talking about here? PvP or WvW? 1v1 ability doesn't make or break a class in PvP, and there are more considerations to 1v1's in PvP than just who would win, unlike in WvW roaming. For instance I play Rev and in WvW I will take a 1v1 with any Warrior any day because it's a good matchup for me and I can win most of them, but how do I win? A lot of kiting and in the case of Spellbreaker it takes a while to work through all the sustain and defenses. This makes it a bad 1v1 for me to take in PvP because time is of the essence and more importantly because I can't really contest the node against the SB.

    In both PvP and WvW roaming, every class is currently viable. Warrior is great in both, SB is very strong in PvP and if you want a more yolo build for roaming you can play core with Axe or maybe stick with SB but bring out the Hammer. Warrior is a good 1v1 class. Some classes and builds have favorable matchups against others, it's less about skill ceiling and more about a soft rock paper scissors thing. Genuine HARD counters are rare but they do exist - pewpew Rangers will wreck a Scourge 9 times out of 10 regardless of skill level, ditto for condi Mirage against a power Herald. But really they're few and far between and most 1v1's will come down to player skill, where skill ceiling isn't very different between the classes (with maybe the exception of Necro which simply doesn't have a spec that's designed for 1v1 against players who know what they're doing) but skill FLOOR is. Warrior has a low skill floor and is a good place to start.

    I'm doing both, WvW roaming (small amount of zerging) and starting in on sPvP. I'll stick with warrior the, I was worried it would be limiting since it's a low skill floor class that's relatively easy to predict skills.

    well im warrior myself and the thief sometimes just needs to make one mistake and gets blown up, ive met thiefes tho, that i couldnt even hit once, because they are so slippery and knew the matchup well, that i just felt helpless, alot of thiefes in wvw arent that good tho (those cry how broken warrior is)

    roaming also isnt just how to fight, its also about using terrain and when to take objectives, you can take t3 objectives with small groupes with a bit of luck and knowing when the enemy is distracted

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2018

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    Don't find a group, roam solo if you want to be any good at this game. Don't be one of those people who chase solo roamers (the actually good roamers) with a group of 5 then melt to that same person when he happens to find you alone.

    Go solo. Lose 1v1's, die a lot, accept your deaths instead of making a run for that tower, it's part of the game. It's a great way to improve mechanically because there's no crutch, and I promise you will improve and much more quickly than you think. By actually challenging yourself you'll reach a point where you can sometimes even 1v2 the scrub "roamers" who run in groups of 5.

    it takes some time to "git gud" like this and many ppl dont have the endurance to just die over and over again, op youd be better off learning the basics of fighting when you go to duel spots to challenge other ppl, they will down you but dont finish and you get to fight many times in a row without porting to spawn every time and you will most likely get more fair fights than with running around solo, many will also give tipps on how to do better if you ask nicely

    It really doesn't, the bar isn't set very high in WvW, most players are simply quite bad and that's the truth. Any high Gold PvP player is likely mechanically better than 90% of the players he will encounter in WvW. That's not a level that's very hard to reach.

    I agree though that duels are a good way to learn and git gud, and sadly WvW is where you find duels. I'd suggest the 1v1 hotjoin rooms but these are typically filled by the same tryhard players every day who are already really, really good at 1v1.

    So I'm guessing profession isn't too important then, just raw skill/knowledge? If that's the case I'll just stick with warrior cause I like the theme. Say though if you had a warrior and theif roughly equal in player skill with the most optimal build for each they would have an equal chance fo winning in theory? Or is it more like that one will just stomp the other into the dirt because certain professions outclass others at higher levels of play? I don't mind practice and reflecting, I just don't want to invest a ton of time into warrior specifically if it turns out to have a low skill ceiling that cripples me once I reach high levels of pvp.

    on higher levels of play in WvW on open area a thief will win against a warrior 10/10. simply because warrior skills are highly telegraphed, alot of sustain is depended on the opponent eating the hits and the thief is not pressured in time to kill the warrior nor limited in space he has to remain.
    if you fight over a capture point tho in sPvP or like a camp in WvW you mostly dont have the time/space to kite the warrior (tho some WvW camps are big enough for this).

    overall id say warrior is in WvW a good choice but if you are on an open area against an opponent of your skill level (asuming both not noobs) that is not another warrior or necro, then the chances are high you will lose. because while it is often enough to die making one mistake against a warrior, in return without mistakes on both sides the warrior will die or endless fight. because the warrior simply has a really hard time applying his damage to a good opponent, but they are rare in WvW and often you can use the envoirement to your advantage.

    IMO at the top for solo WvW roaming are ranger, mesmer and thief. because they all got good disengaging/kiting tools and can rather easily apply damage. as a thief main id say thief has a slight edge over the other 2, but maybe thats personal bias as..you know wont see really good players that often and if i dont play the other class i cant say what their maximum potential would be.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    Don't find a group, roam solo if you want to be any good at this game. Don't be one of those people who chase solo roamers (the actually good roamers) with a group of 5 then melt to that same person when he happens to find you alone.

    Go solo. Lose 1v1's, die a lot, accept your deaths instead of making a run for that tower, it's part of the game. It's a great way to improve mechanically because there's no crutch, and I promise you will improve and much more quickly than you think. By actually challenging yourself you'll reach a point where you can sometimes even 1v2 the scrub "roamers" who run in groups of 5.

    it takes some time to "git gud" like this and many ppl dont have the endurance to just die over and over again, op youd be better off learning the basics of fighting when you go to duel spots to challenge other ppl, they will down you but dont finish and you get to fight many times in a row without porting to spawn every time and you will most likely get more fair fights than with running around solo, many will also give tipps on how to do better if you ask nicely

    It really doesn't, the bar isn't set very high in WvW, most players are simply quite bad and that's the truth. Any high Gold PvP player is likely mechanically better than 90% of the players he will encounter in WvW. That's not a level that's very hard to reach.

    I agree though that duels are a good way to learn and git gud, and sadly WvW is where you find duels. I'd suggest the 1v1 hotjoin rooms but these are typically filled by the same tryhard players every day who are already really, really good at 1v1.

    So I'm guessing profession isn't too important then, just raw skill/knowledge? If that's the case I'll just stick with warrior cause I like the theme. Say though if you had a warrior and theif roughly equal in player skill with the most optimal build for each they would have an equal chance fo winning in theory? Or is it more like that one will just stomp the other into the dirt because certain professions outclass others at higher levels of play? I don't mind practice and reflecting, I just don't want to invest a ton of time into warrior specifically if it turns out to have a low skill ceiling that cripples me once I reach high levels of pvp.

    on higher levels of play in WvW on open area a thief will win against a warrior 10/10. simply because warrior skills are highly telegraphed, alot of sustain is depended on the opponent eating the hits and the thief is not pressured in time to kill the warrior nor limited in space he has to remain.
    if you fight over a capture point tho in sPvP or like a camp in WvW you mostly dont have the time/space to kite the warrior (tho some WvW camps are big enough for this).

    overall id say warrior is in WvW a good choice but if you are on an open area against an opponent of your skill level (asuming both not noobs) that is not another warrior or necro, then the chances are high you will lose. because while it is often enough to die making one mistake against a warrior, in return without mistakes on both sides the warrior will die or endless fight. because the warrior simply has a really hard time applying his damage to a good opponent, but they are rare in WvW and often you can use the envoirement to your advantage.

    IMO at the top for solo WvW roaming are ranger, mesmer and thief. because they all got good disengaging/kiting tools and can rather easily apply damage. as a thief main id say thief has a slight edge over the other 2, but maybe thats personal bias as..you know wont see really good players that often and if i dont play the other class i cant say what their maximum potential would be.

    basically what i said about thief, i dindnt want to frighten him off warior so hell go for thief...we dont need more of those

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2018

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    Don't find a group, roam solo if you want to be any good at this game. Don't be one of those people who chase solo roamers (the actually good roamers) with a group of 5 then melt to that same person when he happens to find you alone.

    Go solo. Lose 1v1's, die a lot, accept your deaths instead of making a run for that tower, it's part of the game. It's a great way to improve mechanically because there's no crutch, and I promise you will improve and much more quickly than you think. By actually challenging yourself you'll reach a point where you can sometimes even 1v2 the scrub "roamers" who run in groups of 5.

    it takes some time to "git gud" like this and many ppl dont have the endurance to just die over and over again, op youd be better off learning the basics of fighting when you go to duel spots to challenge other ppl, they will down you but dont finish and you get to fight many times in a row without porting to spawn every time and you will most likely get more fair fights than with running around solo, many will also give tipps on how to do better if you ask nicely

    It really doesn't, the bar isn't set very high in WvW, most players are simply quite bad and that's the truth. Any high Gold PvP player is likely mechanically better than 90% of the players he will encounter in WvW. That's not a level that's very hard to reach.

    I agree though that duels are a good way to learn and git gud, and sadly WvW is where you find duels. I'd suggest the 1v1 hotjoin rooms but these are typically filled by the same tryhard players every day who are already really, really good at 1v1.

    So I'm guessing profession isn't too important then, just raw skill/knowledge? If that's the case I'll just stick with warrior cause I like the theme. Say though if you had a warrior and theif roughly equal in player skill with the most optimal build for each they would have an equal chance fo winning in theory? Or is it more like that one will just stomp the other into the dirt because certain professions outclass others at higher levels of play? I don't mind practice and reflecting, I just don't want to invest a ton of time into warrior specifically if it turns out to have a low skill ceiling that cripples me once I reach high levels of pvp.

    on higher levels of play in WvW on open area a thief will win against a warrior 10/10. simply because warrior skills are highly telegraphed, alot of sustain is depended on the opponent eating the hits and the thief is not pressured in time to kill the warrior nor limited in space he has to remain.
    if you fight over a capture point tho in sPvP or like a camp in WvW you mostly dont have the time/space to kite the warrior (tho some WvW camps are big enough for this).

    overall id say warrior is in WvW a good choice but if you are on an open area against an opponent of your skill level (asuming both not noobs) that is not another warrior or necro, then the chances are high you will lose. because while it is often enough to die making one mistake against a warrior, in return without mistakes on both sides the warrior will die or endless fight. because the warrior simply has a really hard time applying his damage to a good opponent, but they are rare in WvW and often you can use the envoirement to your advantage.

    IMO at the top for solo WvW roaming are ranger, mesmer and thief. because they all got good disengaging/kiting tools and can rather easily apply damage. as a thief main id say thief has a slight edge over the other 2, but maybe thats personal bias as..you know wont see really good players that often and if i dont play the other class i cant say what their maximum potential would be.

    basically what i said about thief, i dindnt want to frighten him off warior so hell go for thief...we dont need more of those

    Don't worry, I'm already frightened off warrior. The only other class I seem to be able to fight IS warrior, sometimes. After a good week of doing pvp/wvw roaming I just get pooped on by everything. I don't even feel like I annoy people, maybe I'm able to win 1/10 fights. I try to keep the pressure on them, hit with bulls charge -> shield bash -> eviscerate. Maybe works 1/3 of the time, then I have to be lucky they don't just stealth or evade forever and heal which puts me back to square one. On the other hand if they pressure me they just keep it up till all my defensive cd are up then I'm basically a squishy with a high health pool. Then if I try to flip from defense to offense, I just get blown up. I don't have any good ranged options really which it seems everyone else has. Idk, warrior just seems less than lack luster to me.

    I know, I know. Haven't been playing pvp that long so I probably just haven't developed the skills for it yet. As someone who plays lots of competitive games though I'm almost certain I should't feel this helpless. Maybe I'll try thief.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • Chuck.2864Chuck.2864 Member ✭✭✭

    Try Spellbreaker as it's a lot more forgiving to start with.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2018

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    Don't find a group, roam solo if you want to be any good at this game. Don't be one of those people who chase solo roamers (the actually good roamers) with a group of 5 then melt to that same person when he happens to find you alone.

    Go solo. Lose 1v1's, die a lot, accept your deaths instead of making a run for that tower, it's part of the game. It's a great way to improve mechanically because there's no crutch, and I promise you will improve and much more quickly than you think. By actually challenging yourself you'll reach a point where you can sometimes even 1v2 the scrub "roamers" who run in groups of 5.

    it takes some time to "git gud" like this and many ppl dont have the endurance to just die over and over again, op youd be better off learning the basics of fighting when you go to duel spots to challenge other ppl, they will down you but dont finish and you get to fight many times in a row without porting to spawn every time and you will most likely get more fair fights than with running around solo, many will also give tipps on how to do better if you ask nicely

    It really doesn't, the bar isn't set very high in WvW, most players are simply quite bad and that's the truth. Any high Gold PvP player is likely mechanically better than 90% of the players he will encounter in WvW. That's not a level that's very hard to reach.

    I agree though that duels are a good way to learn and git gud, and sadly WvW is where you find duels. I'd suggest the 1v1 hotjoin rooms but these are typically filled by the same tryhard players every day who are already really, really good at 1v1.

    So I'm guessing profession isn't too important then, just raw skill/knowledge? If that's the case I'll just stick with warrior cause I like the theme. Say though if you had a warrior and theif roughly equal in player skill with the most optimal build for each they would have an equal chance fo winning in theory? Or is it more like that one will just stomp the other into the dirt because certain professions outclass others at higher levels of play? I don't mind practice and reflecting, I just don't want to invest a ton of time into warrior specifically if it turns out to have a low skill ceiling that cripples me once I reach high levels of pvp.

    on higher levels of play in WvW on open area a thief will win against a warrior 10/10. simply because warrior skills are highly telegraphed, alot of sustain is depended on the opponent eating the hits and the thief is not pressured in time to kill the warrior nor limited in space he has to remain.
    if you fight over a capture point tho in sPvP or like a camp in WvW you mostly dont have the time/space to kite the warrior (tho some WvW camps are big enough for this).

    overall id say warrior is in WvW a good choice but if you are on an open area against an opponent of your skill level (asuming both not noobs) that is not another warrior or necro, then the chances are high you will lose. because while it is often enough to die making one mistake against a warrior, in return without mistakes on both sides the warrior will die or endless fight. because the warrior simply has a really hard time applying his damage to a good opponent, but they are rare in WvW and often you can use the envoirement to your advantage.

    IMO at the top for solo WvW roaming are ranger, mesmer and thief. because they all got good disengaging/kiting tools and can rather easily apply damage. as a thief main id say thief has a slight edge over the other 2, but maybe thats personal bias as..you know wont see really good players that often and if i dont play the other class i cant say what their maximum potential would be.

    basically what i said about thief, i dindnt want to frighten him off warior so hell go for thief...we dont need more of those

    Don't worry, I'm already frightened off warrior. The only other class I seem to be able to fight IS warrior, sometimes. After a good week of doing pvp/wvw roaming I just get pooped on by everything. I don't even feel like I annoy people, maybe I'm able to win 1/10 fights. I try to keep the pressure on them, hit with bulls charge -> shield bash -> eviscerate. Maybe works 1/3 of the time, then I have to be lucky they don't just stealth or evade forever and heal which puts me back to square one. On the other hand if they pressure me they just keep it up till all my defensive cd are up then I'm basically a squishy with a high health pool. Then if I try to flip from defense to offense, I just get blown up. I don't have any good ranged options really which it seems everyone else has. Idk, warrior just seems less than lack luster to me.

    I know, I know. Haven't been playing pvp that long so I probably just haven't developed the skills for it yet. As someone who plays lots of competitive games though I'm almost certain I should't feel this helpless. Maybe I'll try thief.

    for gw2 combat it is really important to know your build and your opponents build. else you cannot burst at the right moment and will have a hard time avoiding burst.
    in WvW the builds people run are very diverse, you need to know wich combination of traits is possible, identify their utilities etc to know all about their build as fast as possible, basically you should know all traits and skills in the game and should know how to see them within a few seconds when fighting your opponent. knowing meta builds is a good start but you often will face non meta stuff.
    if you cannot identify your opponent, it doesnt really matter what you play, you will die alot.
    the problem is with the powercreep it got harder to 1 vs X against noobs but in a1 vs 1 an inexperienced player will just get rolled over by a better one in a way that it feels like you are one of those white crit mobs at spawn. you cant really learn from you dying nearly instantly and your opponent basically taking no damage.
    thats why i think if you go super cheese from the beginning you will have an easier time learning other builds, you wont be confused by what your bad opponents do as you will autowin against them and therefor concentrate on learning to fight good opponents.
    for example the build i used in the video that i posted in this thread will kill most bad people within the 3s knockdown opener. then you will quickly learn wich type of stunbreaks better people run and usually they will try to set up their burst right away because thats what you do against a deadeye else either your dead or the deadeye gone. another good thing of it is that you can permastealth so you can watch people better, it is sometimes interesting to just mark people and watch what they do, just standing still will get them killed against a good deadeye so they will often show you their mobility and defense skills. you can play the build used even cheesier like i do now with full valkyre instead of berserks, switch no quarter for hidden killer and intelligence sigil for cleansing like this. then you also learn to just be visible for a short moment quickly. but you will have 2 issues, firstly everyone will hate you and secondly as soon as your about average level you will probably kill most good players of other classes in 1 on 1 and will have a hard time getting really good, so at this point you should then go play a while a harder build and return when your really good to this. unless ofc you dont mind and just want to kill :3

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    Don't find a group, roam solo if you want to be any good at this game. Don't be one of those people who chase solo roamers (the actually good roamers) with a group of 5 then melt to that same person when he happens to find you alone.

    Go solo. Lose 1v1's, die a lot, accept your deaths instead of making a run for that tower, it's part of the game. It's a great way to improve mechanically because there's no crutch, and I promise you will improve and much more quickly than you think. By actually challenging yourself you'll reach a point where you can sometimes even 1v2 the scrub "roamers" who run in groups of 5.

    it takes some time to "git gud" like this and many ppl dont have the endurance to just die over and over again, op youd be better off learning the basics of fighting when you go to duel spots to challenge other ppl, they will down you but dont finish and you get to fight many times in a row without porting to spawn every time and you will most likely get more fair fights than with running around solo, many will also give tipps on how to do better if you ask nicely

    It really doesn't, the bar isn't set very high in WvW, most players are simply quite bad and that's the truth. Any high Gold PvP player is likely mechanically better than 90% of the players he will encounter in WvW. That's not a level that's very hard to reach.

    I agree though that duels are a good way to learn and git gud, and sadly WvW is where you find duels. I'd suggest the 1v1 hotjoin rooms but these are typically filled by the same tryhard players every day who are already really, really good at 1v1.

    So I'm guessing profession isn't too important then, just raw skill/knowledge? If that's the case I'll just stick with warrior cause I like the theme. Say though if you had a warrior and theif roughly equal in player skill with the most optimal build for each they would have an equal chance fo winning in theory? Or is it more like that one will just stomp the other into the dirt because certain professions outclass others at higher levels of play? I don't mind practice and reflecting, I just don't want to invest a ton of time into warrior specifically if it turns out to have a low skill ceiling that cripples me once I reach high levels of pvp.

    on higher levels of play in WvW on open area a thief will win against a warrior 10/10. simply because warrior skills are highly telegraphed, alot of sustain is depended on the opponent eating the hits and the thief is not pressured in time to kill the warrior nor limited in space he has to remain.
    if you fight over a capture point tho in sPvP or like a camp in WvW you mostly dont have the time/space to kite the warrior (tho some WvW camps are big enough for this).

    overall id say warrior is in WvW a good choice but if you are on an open area against an opponent of your skill level (asuming both not noobs) that is not another warrior or necro, then the chances are high you will lose. because while it is often enough to die making one mistake against a warrior, in return without mistakes on both sides the warrior will die or endless fight. because the warrior simply has a really hard time applying his damage to a good opponent, but they are rare in WvW and often you can use the envoirement to your advantage.

    IMO at the top for solo WvW roaming are ranger, mesmer and thief. because they all got good disengaging/kiting tools and can rather easily apply damage. as a thief main id say thief has a slight edge over the other 2, but maybe thats personal bias as..you know wont see really good players that often and if i dont play the other class i cant say what their maximum potential would be.

    basically what i said about thief, i dindnt want to frighten him off warior so hell go for thief...we dont need more of those

    Don't worry, I'm already frightened off warrior. The only other class I seem to be able to fight IS warrior, sometimes. After a good week of doing pvp/wvw roaming I just get pooped on by everything. I don't even feel like I annoy people, maybe I'm able to win 1/10 fights. I try to keep the pressure on them, hit with bulls charge -> shield bash -> eviscerate. Maybe works 1/3 of the time, then I have to be lucky they don't just stealth or evade forever and heal which puts me back to square one. On the other hand if they pressure me they just keep it up till all my defensive cd are up then I'm basically a squishy with a high health pool. Then if I try to flip from defense to offense, I just get blown up. I don't have any good ranged options really which it seems everyone else has. Idk, warrior just seems less than lack luster to me.

    I know, I know. Haven't been playing pvp that long so I probably just haven't developed the skills for it yet. As someone who plays lots of competitive games though I'm almost certain I should't feel this helpless. Maybe I'll try thief.

    for gw2 combat it is really important to know your build and your opponents build. else you cannot burst at the right moment and will have a hard time avoiding burst.
    in WvW the builds people run are very diverse, you need to know wich combination of traits is possible, identify their utilities etc to know all about their build as fast as possible, basically you should know all traits and skills in the game and should know how to see them within a few seconds when fighting your opponent. knowing meta builds is a good start but you often will face non meta stuff.
    if you cannot identify your opponent, it doesnt really matter what you play, you will die alot.
    the problem is with the powercreep it got harder to 1 vs X against noobs but in a1 vs 1 an inexperienced player will just get rolled over by a better one in a way that it feels like you are one of those white crit mobs at spawn. you cant really learn from you dying nearly instantly and your opponent basically taking no damage.
    thats why i think if you go super cheese from the beginning you will have an easier time learning other builds, you wont be confused by what your bad opponents do as you will autowin against them and therefor concentrate on learning to fight good opponents.
    for example the build i used in the video that i posted in this thread will kill most bad people within the 3s knockdown opener. then you will quickly learn wich type of stunbreaks better people run and usually they will try to set up their burst right away because thats what you do against a deadeye else either your dead or the deadeye gone. another good thing of it is that you can permastealth so you can watch people better, it is sometimes interesting to just mark people and watch what they do, just standing still will get them killed against a good deadeye so they will often show you their mobility and defense skills. you can play the build used even cheesier like i do now with full valkyre instead of berserks, switch no quarter for hidden killer and intelligence sigil for cleansing like this. then you also learn to just be visible for a short moment quickly. but you will have 2 issues, firstly everyone will hate you and secondly as soon as your about average level you will probably kill most good players of other classes in 1 on 1 and will have a hard time getting really good, so at this point you should then go play a while a harder build and return when your really good to this. unless ofc you dont mind and just want to kill :3

    Ill give thief a try, if that doesn't work out I'll probably quit pvp on this game. Coming from a moba/overwatch background I've never had a pvp experience be this frustrating and it's starting to become unfun. Which is unfortunate because I don't really want to do raids so I might just end up quiting the game again. Here's to hoping thief works out for me. Thanks for all the advice! I'll look into that vid

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    Don't find a group, roam solo if you want to be any good at this game. Don't be one of those people who chase solo roamers (the actually good roamers) with a group of 5 then melt to that same person when he happens to find you alone.

    Go solo. Lose 1v1's, die a lot, accept your deaths instead of making a run for that tower, it's part of the game. It's a great way to improve mechanically because there's no crutch, and I promise you will improve and much more quickly than you think. By actually challenging yourself you'll reach a point where you can sometimes even 1v2 the scrub "roamers" who run in groups of 5.

    it takes some time to "git gud" like this and many ppl dont have the endurance to just die over and over again, op youd be better off learning the basics of fighting when you go to duel spots to challenge other ppl, they will down you but dont finish and you get to fight many times in a row without porting to spawn every time and you will most likely get more fair fights than with running around solo, many will also give tipps on how to do better if you ask nicely

    It really doesn't, the bar isn't set very high in WvW, most players are simply quite bad and that's the truth. Any high Gold PvP player is likely mechanically better than 90% of the players he will encounter in WvW. That's not a level that's very hard to reach.

    I agree though that duels are a good way to learn and git gud, and sadly WvW is where you find duels. I'd suggest the 1v1 hotjoin rooms but these are typically filled by the same tryhard players every day who are already really, really good at 1v1.

    So I'm guessing profession isn't too important then, just raw skill/knowledge? If that's the case I'll just stick with warrior cause I like the theme. Say though if you had a warrior and theif roughly equal in player skill with the most optimal build for each they would have an equal chance fo winning in theory? Or is it more like that one will just stomp the other into the dirt because certain professions outclass others at higher levels of play? I don't mind practice and reflecting, I just don't want to invest a ton of time into warrior specifically if it turns out to have a low skill ceiling that cripples me once I reach high levels of pvp.

    on higher levels of play in WvW on open area a thief will win against a warrior 10/10. simply because warrior skills are highly telegraphed, alot of sustain is depended on the opponent eating the hits and the thief is not pressured in time to kill the warrior nor limited in space he has to remain.
    if you fight over a capture point tho in sPvP or like a camp in WvW you mostly dont have the time/space to kite the warrior (tho some WvW camps are big enough for this).

    overall id say warrior is in WvW a good choice but if you are on an open area against an opponent of your skill level (asuming both not noobs) that is not another warrior or necro, then the chances are high you will lose. because while it is often enough to die making one mistake against a warrior, in return without mistakes on both sides the warrior will die or endless fight. because the warrior simply has a really hard time applying his damage to a good opponent, but they are rare in WvW and often you can use the envoirement to your advantage.

    IMO at the top for solo WvW roaming are ranger, mesmer and thief. because they all got good disengaging/kiting tools and can rather easily apply damage. as a thief main id say thief has a slight edge over the other 2, but maybe thats personal bias as..you know wont see really good players that often and if i dont play the other class i cant say what their maximum potential would be.

    basically what i said about thief, i dindnt want to frighten him off warior so hell go for thief...we dont need more of those

    Don't worry, I'm already frightened off warrior. The only other class I seem to be able to fight IS warrior, sometimes. After a good week of doing pvp/wvw roaming I just get pooped on by everything. I don't even feel like I annoy people, maybe I'm able to win 1/10 fights. I try to keep the pressure on them, hit with bulls charge -> shield bash -> eviscerate. Maybe works 1/3 of the time, then I have to be lucky they don't just stealth or evade forever and heal which puts me back to square one. On the other hand if they pressure me they just keep it up till all my defensive cd are up then I'm basically a squishy with a high health pool. Then if I try to flip from defense to offense, I just get blown up. I don't have any good ranged options really which it seems everyone else has. Idk, warrior just seems less than lack luster to me.

    I know, I know. Haven't been playing pvp that long so I probably just haven't developed the skills for it yet. As someone who plays lots of competitive games though I'm almost certain I should't feel this helpless. Maybe I'll try thief.

    for gw2 combat it is really important to know your build and your opponents build. else you cannot burst at the right moment and will have a hard time avoiding burst.
    in WvW the builds people run are very diverse, you need to know wich combination of traits is possible, identify their utilities etc to know all about their build as fast as possible, basically you should know all traits and skills in the game and should know how to see them within a few seconds when fighting your opponent. knowing meta builds is a good start but you often will face non meta stuff.
    if you cannot identify your opponent, it doesnt really matter what you play, you will die alot.
    the problem is with the powercreep it got harder to 1 vs X against noobs but in a1 vs 1 an inexperienced player will just get rolled over by a better one in a way that it feels like you are one of those white crit mobs at spawn. you cant really learn from you dying nearly instantly and your opponent basically taking no damage.
    thats why i think if you go super cheese from the beginning you will have an easier time learning other builds, you wont be confused by what your bad opponents do as you will autowin against them and therefor concentrate on learning to fight good opponents.
    for example the build i used in the video that i posted in this thread will kill most bad people within the 3s knockdown opener. then you will quickly learn wich type of stunbreaks better people run and usually they will try to set up their burst right away because thats what you do against a deadeye else either your dead or the deadeye gone. another good thing of it is that you can permastealth so you can watch people better, it is sometimes interesting to just mark people and watch what they do, just standing still will get them killed against a good deadeye so they will often show you their mobility and defense skills. you can play the build used even cheesier like i do now with full valkyre instead of berserks, switch no quarter for hidden killer and intelligence sigil for cleansing like this. then you also learn to just be visible for a short moment quickly. but you will have 2 issues, firstly everyone will hate you and secondly as soon as your about average level you will probably kill most good players of other classes in 1 on 1 and will have a hard time getting really good, so at this point you should then go play a while a harder build and return when your really good to this. unless ofc you dont mind and just want to kill :3

    Ill give thief a try, if that doesn't work out I'll probably quit pvp on this game. Coming from a moba/overwatch background I've never had a pvp experience be this frustrating and it's starting to become unfun. Which is unfortunate because I don't really want to do raids so I might just end up quiting the game again. Here's to hoping thief works out for me. Thanks for all the advice! I'll look into that vid

    well guess thats the issue with games that are out already a while. it will be hard as a new player as there will be an experienced player here and there that will just wreck you and you will feel super helpless. when i see an obvious new player i am sometimes not sure if i should kill them just like that or ignore them but whatever i decide to do they hardly will learn anything fighting me, because they often run builds that either die instantly or that deal 0 damage. i mean some say you learn from losing but IMO it depends on how you lose, if you feel like complete helpless you will have a hard time adapting. maybe we can make a cheese list for noobs to start the game without getting instant killed, well that there is one of the cheesiest thief builds, as not many thieves play this cheesy, there might be similar cheesy builds for other classes that i havent encountered yet...maybe someone willing to share?

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    Don't find a group, roam solo if you want to be any good at this game. Don't be one of those people who chase solo roamers (the actually good roamers) with a group of 5 then melt to that same person when he happens to find you alone.

    Go solo. Lose 1v1's, die a lot, accept your deaths instead of making a run for that tower, it's part of the game. It's a great way to improve mechanically because there's no crutch, and I promise you will improve and much more quickly than you think. By actually challenging yourself you'll reach a point where you can sometimes even 1v2 the scrub "roamers" who run in groups of 5.

    it takes some time to "git gud" like this and many ppl dont have the endurance to just die over and over again, op youd be better off learning the basics of fighting when you go to duel spots to challenge other ppl, they will down you but dont finish and you get to fight many times in a row without porting to spawn every time and you will most likely get more fair fights than with running around solo, many will also give tipps on how to do better if you ask nicely

    It really doesn't, the bar isn't set very high in WvW, most players are simply quite bad and that's the truth. Any high Gold PvP player is likely mechanically better than 90% of the players he will encounter in WvW. That's not a level that's very hard to reach.

    I agree though that duels are a good way to learn and git gud, and sadly WvW is where you find duels. I'd suggest the 1v1 hotjoin rooms but these are typically filled by the same tryhard players every day who are already really, really good at 1v1.

    So I'm guessing profession isn't too important then, just raw skill/knowledge? If that's the case I'll just stick with warrior cause I like the theme. Say though if you had a warrior and theif roughly equal in player skill with the most optimal build for each they would have an equal chance fo winning in theory? Or is it more like that one will just stomp the other into the dirt because certain professions outclass others at higher levels of play? I don't mind practice and reflecting, I just don't want to invest a ton of time into warrior specifically if it turns out to have a low skill ceiling that cripples me once I reach high levels of pvp.

    on higher levels of play in WvW on open area a thief will win against a warrior 10/10. simply because warrior skills are highly telegraphed, alot of sustain is depended on the opponent eating the hits and the thief is not pressured in time to kill the warrior nor limited in space he has to remain.
    if you fight over a capture point tho in sPvP or like a camp in WvW you mostly dont have the time/space to kite the warrior (tho some WvW camps are big enough for this).

    overall id say warrior is in WvW a good choice but if you are on an open area against an opponent of your skill level (asuming both not noobs) that is not another warrior or necro, then the chances are high you will lose. because while it is often enough to die making one mistake against a warrior, in return without mistakes on both sides the warrior will die or endless fight. because the warrior simply has a really hard time applying his damage to a good opponent, but they are rare in WvW and often you can use the envoirement to your advantage.

    IMO at the top for solo WvW roaming are ranger, mesmer and thief. because they all got good disengaging/kiting tools and can rather easily apply damage. as a thief main id say thief has a slight edge over the other 2, but maybe thats personal bias as..you know wont see really good players that often and if i dont play the other class i cant say what their maximum potential would be.

    basically what i said about thief, i dindnt want to frighten him off warior so hell go for thief...we dont need more of those

    Don't worry, I'm already frightened off warrior. The only other class I seem to be able to fight IS warrior, sometimes. After a good week of doing pvp/wvw roaming I just get pooped on by everything. I don't even feel like I annoy people, maybe I'm able to win 1/10 fights. I try to keep the pressure on them, hit with bulls charge -> shield bash -> eviscerate. Maybe works 1/3 of the time, then I have to be lucky they don't just stealth or evade forever and heal which puts me back to square one. On the other hand if they pressure me they just keep it up till all my defensive cd are up then I'm basically a squishy with a high health pool. Then if I try to flip from defense to offense, I just get blown up. I don't have any good ranged options really which it seems everyone else has. Idk, warrior just seems less than lack luster to me.

    I know, I know. Haven't been playing pvp that long so I probably just haven't developed the skills for it yet. As someone who plays lots of competitive games though I'm almost certain I should't feel this helpless. Maybe I'll try thief.

    for gw2 combat it is really important to know your build and your opponents build. else you cannot burst at the right moment and will have a hard time avoiding burst.
    in WvW the builds people run are very diverse, you need to know wich combination of traits is possible, identify their utilities etc to know all about their build as fast as possible, basically you should know all traits and skills in the game and should know how to see them within a few seconds when fighting your opponent. knowing meta builds is a good start but you often will face non meta stuff.
    if you cannot identify your opponent, it doesnt really matter what you play, you will die alot.
    the problem is with the powercreep it got harder to 1 vs X against noobs but in a1 vs 1 an inexperienced player will just get rolled over by a better one in a way that it feels like you are one of those white crit mobs at spawn. you cant really learn from you dying nearly instantly and your opponent basically taking no damage.
    thats why i think if you go super cheese from the beginning you will have an easier time learning other builds, you wont be confused by what your bad opponents do as you will autowin against them and therefor concentrate on learning to fight good opponents.
    for example the build i used in the video that i posted in this thread will kill most bad people within the 3s knockdown opener. then you will quickly learn wich type of stunbreaks better people run and usually they will try to set up their burst right away because thats what you do against a deadeye else either your dead or the deadeye gone. another good thing of it is that you can permastealth so you can watch people better, it is sometimes interesting to just mark people and watch what they do, just standing still will get them killed against a good deadeye so they will often show you their mobility and defense skills. you can play the build used even cheesier like i do now with full valkyre instead of berserks, switch no quarter for hidden killer and intelligence sigil for cleansing like this. then you also learn to just be visible for a short moment quickly. but you will have 2 issues, firstly everyone will hate you and secondly as soon as your about average level you will probably kill most good players of other classes in 1 on 1 and will have a hard time getting really good, so at this point you should then go play a while a harder build and return when your really good to this. unless ofc you dont mind and just want to kill :3

    Ill give thief a try, if that doesn't work out I'll probably quit pvp on this game. Coming from a moba/overwatch background I've never had a pvp experience be this frustrating and it's starting to become unfun. Which is unfortunate because I don't really want to do raids so I might just end up quiting the game again. Here's to hoping thief works out for me. Thanks for all the advice! I'll look into that vid

    well guess thats the issue with games that are out already a while. it will be hard as a new player as there will be an experienced player here and there that will just wreck you and you will feel super helpless. when i see an obvious new player i am sometimes not sure if i should kill them just like that or ignore them but whatever i decide to do they hardly will learn anything fighting me, because they often run builds that either die instantly or that deal 0 damage. i mean some say you learn from losing but IMO it depends on how you lose, if you feel like complete helpless you will have a hard time adapting. maybe we can make a cheese list for noobs to start the game without getting instant killed, well that there is one of the cheesiest thief builds, as not many thieves play this cheesy, there might be similar cheesy builds for other classes that i havent encountered yet...maybe someone willing to share?

    That would be great to have. Even better a short guide on 'general' strengths and weakeness of each profession and best ways to fight them. I found it tough to get into pvp when I started playing right when HoT came out. I returned some months after PoF and it feels to me way more difficult.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    Don't find a group, roam solo if you want to be any good at this game. Don't be one of those people who chase solo roamers (the actually good roamers) with a group of 5 then melt to that same person when he happens to find you alone.

    Go solo. Lose 1v1's, die a lot, accept your deaths instead of making a run for that tower, it's part of the game. It's a great way to improve mechanically because there's no crutch, and I promise you will improve and much more quickly than you think. By actually challenging yourself you'll reach a point where you can sometimes even 1v2 the scrub "roamers" who run in groups of 5.

    it takes some time to "git gud" like this and many ppl dont have the endurance to just die over and over again, op youd be better off learning the basics of fighting when you go to duel spots to challenge other ppl, they will down you but dont finish and you get to fight many times in a row without porting to spawn every time and you will most likely get more fair fights than with running around solo, many will also give tipps on how to do better if you ask nicely

    It really doesn't, the bar isn't set very high in WvW, most players are simply quite bad and that's the truth. Any high Gold PvP player is likely mechanically better than 90% of the players he will encounter in WvW. That's not a level that's very hard to reach.

    I agree though that duels are a good way to learn and git gud, and sadly WvW is where you find duels. I'd suggest the 1v1 hotjoin rooms but these are typically filled by the same tryhard players every day who are already really, really good at 1v1.

    So I'm guessing profession isn't too important then, just raw skill/knowledge? If that's the case I'll just stick with warrior cause I like the theme. Say though if you had a warrior and theif roughly equal in player skill with the most optimal build for each they would have an equal chance fo winning in theory? Or is it more like that one will just stomp the other into the dirt because certain professions outclass others at higher levels of play? I don't mind practice and reflecting, I just don't want to invest a ton of time into warrior specifically if it turns out to have a low skill ceiling that cripples me once I reach high levels of pvp.

    on higher levels of play in WvW on open area a thief will win against a warrior 10/10. simply because warrior skills are highly telegraphed, alot of sustain is depended on the opponent eating the hits and the thief is not pressured in time to kill the warrior nor limited in space he has to remain.
    if you fight over a capture point tho in sPvP or like a camp in WvW you mostly dont have the time/space to kite the warrior (tho some WvW camps are big enough for this).

    overall id say warrior is in WvW a good choice but if you are on an open area against an opponent of your skill level (asuming both not noobs) that is not another warrior or necro, then the chances are high you will lose. because while it is often enough to die making one mistake against a warrior, in return without mistakes on both sides the warrior will die or endless fight. because the warrior simply has a really hard time applying his damage to a good opponent, but they are rare in WvW and often you can use the envoirement to your advantage.

    IMO at the top for solo WvW roaming are ranger, mesmer and thief. because they all got good disengaging/kiting tools and can rather easily apply damage. as a thief main id say thief has a slight edge over the other 2, but maybe thats personal bias as..you know wont see really good players that often and if i dont play the other class i cant say what their maximum potential would be.

    basically what i said about thief, i dindnt want to frighten him off warior so hell go for thief...we dont need more of those

    Don't worry, I'm already frightened off warrior. The only other class I seem to be able to fight IS warrior, sometimes. After a good week of doing pvp/wvw roaming I just get pooped on by everything. I don't even feel like I annoy people, maybe I'm able to win 1/10 fights. I try to keep the pressure on them, hit with bulls charge -> shield bash -> eviscerate. Maybe works 1/3 of the time, then I have to be lucky they don't just stealth or evade forever and heal which puts me back to square one. On the other hand if they pressure me they just keep it up till all my defensive cd are up then I'm basically a squishy with a high health pool. Then if I try to flip from defense to offense, I just get blown up. I don't have any good ranged options really which it seems everyone else has. Idk, warrior just seems less than lack luster to me.

    I know, I know. Haven't been playing pvp that long so I probably just haven't developed the skills for it yet. As someone who plays lots of competitive games though I'm almost certain I should't feel this helpless. Maybe I'll try thief.

    atleast someone that acknowledges that warrior isnt as op as many ppl try to make it, they get steamrolled by one but never played it themself and think even new ppl can wreck anyone

    do you know how many ppl ive talked to that never aknowledged any of my arguments nd said "stop talking, you are a warrior"

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2018

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Chuck.2864 said:
    Don't find a group, roam solo if you want to be any good at this game. Don't be one of those people who chase solo roamers (the actually good roamers) with a group of 5 then melt to that same person when he happens to find you alone.

    Go solo. Lose 1v1's, die a lot, accept your deaths instead of making a run for that tower, it's part of the game. It's a great way to improve mechanically because there's no crutch, and I promise you will improve and much more quickly than you think. By actually challenging yourself you'll reach a point where you can sometimes even 1v2 the scrub "roamers" who run in groups of 5.

    it takes some time to "git gud" like this and many ppl dont have the endurance to just die over and over again, op youd be better off learning the basics of fighting when you go to duel spots to challenge other ppl, they will down you but dont finish and you get to fight many times in a row without porting to spawn every time and you will most likely get more fair fights than with running around solo, many will also give tipps on how to do better if you ask nicely

    It really doesn't, the bar isn't set very high in WvW, most players are simply quite bad and that's the truth. Any high Gold PvP player is likely mechanically better than 90% of the players he will encounter in WvW. That's not a level that's very hard to reach.

    I agree though that duels are a good way to learn and git gud, and sadly WvW is where you find duels. I'd suggest the 1v1 hotjoin rooms but these are typically filled by the same tryhard players every day who are already really, really good at 1v1.

    So I'm guessing profession isn't too important then, just raw skill/knowledge? If that's the case I'll just stick with warrior cause I like the theme. Say though if you had a warrior and theif roughly equal in player skill with the most optimal build for each they would have an equal chance fo winning in theory? Or is it more like that one will just stomp the other into the dirt because certain professions outclass others at higher levels of play? I don't mind practice and reflecting, I just don't want to invest a ton of time into warrior specifically if it turns out to have a low skill ceiling that cripples me once I reach high levels of pvp.

    on higher levels of play in WvW on open area a thief will win against a warrior 10/10. simply because warrior skills are highly telegraphed, alot of sustain is depended on the opponent eating the hits and the thief is not pressured in time to kill the warrior nor limited in space he has to remain.
    if you fight over a capture point tho in sPvP or like a camp in WvW you mostly dont have the time/space to kite the warrior (tho some WvW camps are big enough for this).

    overall id say warrior is in WvW a good choice but if you are on an open area against an opponent of your skill level (asuming both not noobs) that is not another warrior or necro, then the chances are high you will lose. because while it is often enough to die making one mistake against a warrior, in return without mistakes on both sides the warrior will die or endless fight. because the warrior simply has a really hard time applying his damage to a good opponent, but they are rare in WvW and often you can use the envoirement to your advantage.

    IMO at the top for solo WvW roaming are ranger, mesmer and thief. because they all got good disengaging/kiting tools and can rather easily apply damage. as a thief main id say thief has a slight edge over the other 2, but maybe thats personal bias as..you know wont see really good players that often and if i dont play the other class i cant say what their maximum potential would be.

    basically what i said about thief, i dindnt want to frighten him off warior so hell go for thief...we dont need more of those

    Don't worry, I'm already frightened off warrior. The only other class I seem to be able to fight IS warrior, sometimes. After a good week of doing pvp/wvw roaming I just get pooped on by everything. I don't even feel like I annoy people, maybe I'm able to win 1/10 fights. I try to keep the pressure on them, hit with bulls charge -> shield bash -> eviscerate. Maybe works 1/3 of the time, then I have to be lucky they don't just stealth or evade forever and heal which puts me back to square one. On the other hand if they pressure me they just keep it up till all my defensive cd are up then I'm basically a squishy with a high health pool. Then if I try to flip from defense to offense, I just get blown up. I don't have any good ranged options really which it seems everyone else has. Idk, warrior just seems less than lack luster to me.

    I know, I know. Haven't been playing pvp that long so I probably just haven't developed the skills for it yet. As someone who plays lots of competitive games though I'm almost certain I should't feel this helpless. Maybe I'll try thief.

    for gw2 combat it is really important to know your build and your opponents build. else you cannot burst at the right moment and will have a hard time avoiding burst.
    in WvW the builds people run are very diverse, you need to know wich combination of traits is possible, identify their utilities etc to know all about their build as fast as possible, basically you should know all traits and skills in the game and should know how to see them within a few seconds when fighting your opponent. knowing meta builds is a good start but you often will face non meta stuff.
    if you cannot identify your opponent, it doesnt really matter what you play, you will die alot.
    the problem is with the powercreep it got harder to 1 vs X against noobs but in a1 vs 1 an inexperienced player will just get rolled over by a better one in a way that it feels like you are one of those white crit mobs at spawn. you cant really learn from you dying nearly instantly and your opponent basically taking no damage.
    thats why i think if you go super cheese from the beginning you will have an easier time learning other builds, you wont be confused by what your bad opponents do as you will autowin against them and therefor concentrate on learning to fight good opponents.
    for example the build i used in the video that i posted in this thread will kill most bad people within the 3s knockdown opener. then you will quickly learn wich type of stunbreaks better people run and usually they will try to set up their burst right away because thats what you do against a deadeye else either your dead or the deadeye gone. another good thing of it is that you can permastealth so you can watch people better, it is sometimes interesting to just mark people and watch what they do, just standing still will get them killed against a good deadeye so they will often show you their mobility and defense skills. you can play the build used even cheesier like i do now with full valkyre instead of berserks, switch no quarter for hidden killer and intelligence sigil for cleansing like this. then you also learn to just be visible for a short moment quickly. but you will have 2 issues, firstly everyone will hate you and secondly as soon as your about average level you will probably kill most good players of other classes in 1 on 1 and will have a hard time getting really good, so at this point you should then go play a while a harder build and return when your really good to this. unless ofc you dont mind and just want to kill :3

    Ill give thief a try, if that doesn't work out I'll probably quit pvp on this game. Coming from a moba/overwatch background I've never had a pvp experience be this frustrating and it's starting to become unfun. Which is unfortunate because I don't really want to do raids so I might just end up quiting the game again. Here's to hoping thief works out for me. Thanks for all the advice! I'll look into that vid

    well guess thats the issue with games that are out already a while. it will be hard as a new player as there will be an experienced player here and there that will just wreck you and you will feel super helpless. when i see an obvious new player i am sometimes not sure if i should kill them just like that or ignore them but whatever i decide to do they hardly will learn anything fighting me, because they often run builds that either die instantly or that deal 0 damage. i mean some say you learn from losing but IMO it depends on how you lose, if you feel like complete helpless you will have a hard time adapting. maybe we can make a cheese list for noobs to start the game without getting instant killed, well that there is one of the cheesiest thief builds, as not many thieves play this cheesy, there might be similar cheesy builds for other classes that i havent encountered yet...maybe someone willing to share?

    That would be great to have. Even better a short guide on 'general' strengths and weakeness of each profession and best ways to fight them. I found it tough to get into pvp when I started playing right when HoT came out. I returned some months after PoF and it feels to me way more difficult.

    well guess we could start right here, ill give some info fighting thieves or rather what you can expect from a thief and someone else can carry on with other classes. because the issue is with people playing so many diffrent builds you need to know what can be put into a build so you can see the strength or weakness of a certain combination. because remember for everything you put in your build, there is something you wont have.
    there is not many general strengths or weakness of a class to something, outside of nekros weakness against range and anything mobile maybe..

    most thieves you will run into are either d/p daredevil with DA+Trickery or core s/d with DA + Trickery + Acro. but you still have to identify the thief you run into first.
    a thief like any other class has 5 core traitlines, 2 defensive ( SA , Acro) ,2 offensive ( DA , CS) , 1 utility (Trickery)

    SA focuses on stealth, you will have longer lasting stealth and more sustain in stealth with SA. basically you wont kill an SA thief while he is in stealth.

    Acro focuses more on dodging and evades. many thieves picking acro in WvW will pick instant reflexes, thats a passive evade proc at 50% hp for 2 seconds on 40s cd. if you pressure them too hard into it they will often retreat and come back when the cooldown is up again. most sword builds will run acro and have the option with swindlers equilibrium to reset steal/mark cooldown on evade with 30s cd, so they can steal right away 2 times just with this trait wich is really strong. generally instant abilities are really strong in gw2 thats why many thief builds in core/daredevil build alot into that steal, avoiding it is a good step into winning a fight against a thief, but as it is instant you need to predict it. and with dont stop acro thieves are nearly immune or actually immune with a little more -condi duration to soft CC , while they got swiftness, so that wont help you against them.

    DA our most commonly used offensive line for both power and condition builds. here you need to expect weaknees and every 30s below 50% hp an immobilize.

    CS is only used by high damage power builds and it basically just buffs stats - pretty uncommon pick.

    Trickery. trickery is almost mandatory for most build just because of 3 more ini at the beginning and 2 more for each successfull steal. if the thief is not running trickery, visible by no lead attacks you may assume he has initative issues(unless deadeye with m7). also usually thieves with trickery can interrupt you through your stability with steal so you really need a feeling on when the thief got steal ready.

    then we got the elite specs daredevil and deadeye, if any of those picked you can see it in WvW in their character icon and know they can have only 2 of the above.

    daredevil provides baseline endurance on steal, heal on steal , and a 3rd evade bar. important when fighting against them are these trait: weakening strikes ( together with DA can make really high weakness uptime and further reduces damage from weakened opponents), escapists absolution wich is a condi remove on evading an attack so if you run a condi build stop attacking when they got some conditions on em and watch them melt, pulmonary impact is damage on interrupt not really much anymore but a little annoying. you cannot pick escapists absolution with pulmonary impact. and then we got those evades wich aside from new effects also are an indicator of what type of thief you face. if you see the condi buff i guess its obiously a condi build , then you have either unhindered combatant or bound. with unhindered combatant you can better kite your opponent but you can recieve exhausted if you cleanse a soft CC with it, immobilize wont help you land your burst on a thief with this trait. bound as it is a leap finisher can make for a good stealth access with black powder as it is uninterruptable., you would need to interrupt the blackpowder or immobilize the thief to prevent them stealthing. you also gain endurance on successful steal, so another reason to avoid their steal.

    deadeye provides the thief with malicious stealth attacks. the one from pistol is nice for pistol based condi builds, dagger + rifle + spear got insane damage modifier. but sword only gives more endurance. deadeye synergize well with stealth play so expect deadeyes to stealth alot no matter the build, they just have too good access to it not to use it and need it to utilize malice. when fighting a deadeye you should have projectile hate for rifle/pistol variants ( you cannot block/reflect deaths judgement, still too many try to) a good stun break for binding shadows if you cant evade it ( for the deadeye it has a pretty obvious animation but seeing that very few dodge it i am not sure if they can see it) and an option to apply your damage fast to a target that appears on range. if the deadeye is carring a dagger next to the rifle and you got hit by several rifle shot before the deadeye disaapeared in stealth - run! because what then follows is one of the most broken things in game - malicious backstab. you can only predict it and few can tank it. also your reveal skills might not work that well against deadeyes as they can cleanse revealed with their elite , but it has a cast time so if you want to utilize your reveal get ready to interrupt that skill. fighting a oneshot deadeye is mostly about avoiding the malice buildup and trying to keep them visible, because once malice is buildup it is pretty much too late.

    so thats basic about the traitlines. as said above usually you will run into : DA+Trickery + either Acro or Daredevil picking any other trailine means you give up one of those good traitlines and will lack something.

    our weapon skills cost initative outside of AA, wasting your ini on not so potent skills can quickly ensure your stuck with AA.
    usually dagger thieves will try to backstab you. try to dodge if you recieve a shadow shot from a stealthed thief as this often is canceld into backstab. heartseeker is often used for its leap finisher to gain stealth but as a movement skill can only be canceled by weaponswap. if used within your CC range, use it.
    there is also D/D condi variant they are most vulnerable after a deaths blossom when they hit the ground try to immobilze them there to avoid normal dodge.
    sword thieves will port alot in and out, try to remain near their return point of sword 2.
    pistol/rifle is just usual pew pew weapons, bring some projectile hate and use terrain.
    shortbow is mostly used to run by alot of thieves or for AoE preassure, rarely in 1 on 1 fights, maybe for kiting.
    staff is not really practical in applying damage. vault is not a full dodge but will lock you in animation so interrupt/burst into the second half of it.
    mostly used utilities :
    shadowstep : 2x stunbreak, cleanses 3 conditions on backport but dont really expect the thief to teleport right back if you remain there. 50s base cooldown, backport visible in the buff bar.
    roll for initative: stunbreak, soft cc cleanse, 6 ini back , evade. 40s base cooldown
    signet of agility: clears 3 conditions and provides 1 endurance bar AoE, passive increased precision. cooldown 30s and visible in the buffbar
    assassins signet: massive increase of power on active use for 5 seconds usually used in oneshot builds, passive increased power, 20 seconds cooldown. visible in the buffbar
    blinding powder: instant AoE stealth+ blind aswell as blast finisher for combos. has a little smoke clound animation. 40s base cooldown.
    bandits defense: still used by quite some daredevils in WvW a low cooldown 2 second block skill it also breaks stuns.
    and for deadeyes binding shadows: 30s cd, poison, vuln , immob, removes 2 boons and knocks down target for 3 seconds. does only require to be in range and have LoS on casting not when you get hit by it. ( it is a little delayed).
    lastly some basics about fighting thieves
    when fighting melee type of thief builds they will mostly hit a little burst, then kite a bit and hit the next burst. they need to come close to burst and are very vulnerable during this. try to counterburst them right away. but they will most probably retreat if they survive this and come back later.
    for ranged thieves carrying rifle or pistols you should try using projectile hate and LoS, reduce their range advantage so you can easier counter burst them. you can also use NPCs or if your class has pets/clones/turrets etc they can bodyblock most thief ranged attacks.
    you should watch the thieves cooldowns to know if he engages you with too much risk, like if all his stunbreaks are on cd for example. because we thieves are greedy.
    melee thieves will often use their highest range targeted teleport on close to maxrange to engage their opponent, this might help you to predict + dodge their opener. dodging one of their attacks while they have basi venom or any other venom will remove one stack of it so you can avoid it by that.

    overall mostly it will be either you kill a thief fast, you die or the thief will reset and keep tying. there is no slowly killing a thief.

    i hope thats enough info so you know most of what could be run, but as said usually you will run into some of the spvp meta builds in WvW or a noob thief. rarely someone good and playing off meta as everything viable in WvW that is offmeta is somehow considered cheesy :3

    ofc its just better to know every trait and skill ingame i mean i have read them sometimes all and know more or less were they are all, maybe not their names but effects so when i face an opponent no matter the profession i pretty much know what they picked there and what in return they didnt pick wich might be a weakness. so in the long run its advisable to run every profession a bit, but you need a basic understanding of your opponent i guess to see the weakness/strength of your own profession its all connected somehow.

    it is pretty short could be longer, but maybe its even too much for a new player not sure about that and its only one profession. there are just too many possibilities to play a profession and you will run into most in WvW.

  • Chuck.2864Chuck.2864 Member ✭✭✭

    Remember also that WvW roaming is a sandbox environment, there's no telling what players you will run into, sometimes you'll fight players who are just way better. This is especially true when WvW doesn't exactly get regular influxes of new players and most new WvW players who do arrive go for the zergs. This is why PvP is maybe a better place to start than solo roaming, because matchmaking will put you against players of similar skill level.

  • TamX.1870TamX.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    Good posts here! I fully agree that one of the most important thing is just know all the classes, so in bit longer run be prepared to check them out. It helps tremendously if you know how your opponent works.

    Another thing is that in this game, the many PvP fights are "just" doing "small things" right - that is, there are certain key skills which turn the tide in the fight if you can time and use them right. For example, on ranger, some examples are like when to use signet of stone to eat burst and when to not, where to gain stealth and when and how to use it, how to time your bursts and make them landing, how to mask pet swaps and when to use them. Things like that. I call those "small" things because they are not that obvious at least for newish player like me, but of course in reality they are the big things that decide how the fight goes. On my ranger, I took several 1vs1 against other ranger. While I knew 100% how the opposite side works, I couldn't beat her/him just because s/he did certain things better and I was just constantly pushed to defensive side, sometimes quicker, sometimes slower, but all times inevitably, and after defenses were used, s/he killed me with ease :) I also watched two thieves dueling, and I noticed that in those fights the thing was just the same: the fight looked first pretty even, but the other side still constantly killed the other, sometimes quicker, sometimes slower. These things can be very frustrating, at least they are that for me, but I try to learn and practice and get better.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    I found this and am going to leave it here for future readers. https://godsofpvp.net/

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2018

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    I found this and am going to leave it here for future readers. https://godsofpvp.net/

    Should add a note that these are only PvP builds, not for WvW. Even 1v1 a WvW build generally use different armor stats (ignoring pvp limitations) and runes/sigils.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    I found this and am going to leave it here for future readers. https://godsofpvp.net/

    Should add a note that these are only PvP builds, not for WvW. Even 1v1 a WvW build generally use different armor stats (ignoring pvp limitations) and runes/sigils.

    not only that also the same encounter might favor a different outcome in WvW as you are often less limited in time aswell as in space to kite and stealth is a greater advantage in WvW. especially thieves will attack you alot more frequent 1 on 1 in WvW or even outnumbered then they would in spvp as there it would be inefficient.

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