Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Taimi should probably die.


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 281
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@Twyn.7320 said:Gorrik is basically 'Phlunt Lite', being 'on the spectrum' and still has more potential than Taimi. Honestly like, they could save Kasmeer and Rytlock, kill off the rest and the Dragon's Watch story wouldn't lose anything and would probably become better. They've character-assassinated Braham, Rox is basically invisible, along with Marjory, Taimi's never been developed and acts as a stereotype, and Canach's devolving every single episode.

There's a misguided argument at the moment that there's too much death in Guild Wars 2.

There isn't enough consequence in the narrative. The Commander walks into one of the most dangerous places in the world, with almost the full roster of Dragon's Watch, and no one dies or gets injured. The only character that gets injured off-screen is Faren, and everyone on the forums claps and cries: 'Amazing story, best thing ever.' It's beyond predictable and terribly written. I can't understand how people play through the same formula over and over, and feel that it's amazing.

The Living Story Formula: Instance, Instance, Hearts, Final Instance.

It never deviates, and it never works. The Hearts aspect is just lazy, at least they changed it slightly for Episode 3 so we're not just doing the Hearts, but it just sets up the Hearts for a later date, as everything that we do contributes to the yellow bar. The first Instance always has a dramatic event, and it's poorly handled. The second Instance involves travelling to the new zone. The final Instance is the big conclusion that always has a strange ending. It never changes. We wait 3 months, and we get the same formula. Why can't we deviate from this? How about we travel to the zone in the first Instance, and then the whole story takes place in that zone? How about we do a mini-quest that isn't tied to the Hearts and takes place in a ruin, or something? You can't change the final Instance, I understand that... but at least handle the dramatics with good writing. ANet has only hit the mark once with an ending, and that was: Living World Season 3 Episode 1, which still remains the best Living World Episode IMO, and probably the best story that they've ever told. Everything else has either been filler or a huge let-down with missed opportunities, and most of these missed opportunities comes from character-assassinations, or just bad writing. It's actually quite frustrating to see so much potential wasted by a family-friendly, predictable narrative team, and forced representation.

A final note: Forced Representation + Bad Writing = Horrendous, Insulting Characters. Gorrik is actually an insult to people who are 'on the spectrum'. Anet's portrayal of Gorrik isn't accurate, and it's just glorifying something that's quite intricate to write. There are positives and negatives to all situations, but if you only focus on the positives, the character loses all sense of reality and becomes forced.

I wish I could like this 100 times. Absolutely spot on. The story is a predictable cadence at this point, and nothing shocking actually happens. Some scenes in Long Live the Lich were pretty good, funny even, albeit predictable. We all knew Joko would be no more after this. But that is the point of how any game is, you're the hero, they're the enemy. Ofcourse you'll triumph.There's no sense of desperation, nothing that makes you feel for the story, the characters, or the call of battle. I don't know if this is because I've gotten older, or if it's down to the writing, but good writing should give me this sense of, 'The world needs me, or we're truly doomed'. This was, oh plague, ok, let's squish some bugs. Joko's personality is what I like in an enemy, cunning, smart, and his monologue at the very end was probably the best dialogue of the entire Episode. Some home truths, and self reflection.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Overlord RainyDay.2084" said:There's no way they'd kill off our deus ex machina dispenser. If anything they'll tug on some heartstrings by having her on death's door until Zojja miraculously recovers and brings the invention of "a certain Snaff Prize Savant" to save the day. Either that, or Taimi turns half-sylvari from abusing blighting pod juice.

I would love seeing a mix between a Sylvari and an Asura, would be funny to see a little walking cabbage

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@DamiVlad.2689 said:

I would love seeing a mix between a Sylvari and an Asura, would be funny to see a little walking cabbage

Taimi didn't really give too much indication as to exactly how cavalier her experiments with mordrem leftovers have been, but if she's been mainlining dragon juice, I doubt she'd go unaffected. We know from Kudu, playing around with dragon energy will eventually affect you, even if it doesn't directly put you under a dragon's control.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Ashantara.8731" said:

Lord Faren and Braham I would hate to see go as well, now that we are all starting to work as a unit. Why do some players have such a scary tendency to want to see characters die?

It seems this is purely about like and dislike. I think most comments reflect that. Mostly the reason people use "to give the story impact" or "to really draw us in" are just an attempt to cover it up. If I like (sometimes even hate) a character, I'm more apt to dislike them dying because creating characters I respond to at all is seemingly difficult. Especially if they're given any type of cohesive personality. I can think of some characters that just have no affect on me at all and its difficult to care at all what happens to them. I try. I'd rather have the hatred of a character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@DamiVlad.2689 said:

@"Overlord RainyDay.2084" said:There's no way they'd kill off our deus ex machina dispenser. If anything they'll tug on some heartstrings by having her on death's door until Zojja miraculously recovers and brings the invention of "a certain Snaff Prize Savant" to save the day. Either that, or
Taimi turns half-sylvari
from abusing blighting pod juice.

I would love seeing a mix between a Sylvari and an Asura, would be funny to see a little walking cabbage

I would play the compost out of that. Just sayin'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@thruine.8510 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:

Lord Faren and Braham I would hate to see go as well, now that we are all starting to work as a unit. Why do some players have such a scary tendency to want to see characters die?

It seems this is purely about like and dislike. I think most comments reflect that. Mostly the reason people use "to give the story impact" or "to really draw us in" are just an attempt to cover it up. If I like (sometimes even hate) a character, I'm more apt to dislike them dying because creating characters I respond to at all is seemingly difficult. Especially if they're given any type of cohesive personality. I can think of some characters that just have no affect on me at all and its difficult to care at all what happens to them. I try. I'd rather have the hatred of a character.

This. I don't like Braham much, and while I completely disagree with some of the views folks have of him, and how you should respond to his behaviour, I can understand where they are coming from, and why the would, for example, see his actions as so disrespectful that -- for the murder hobos we are in-game -- we should kill him. (IRL, just ditch him forever would be the equivalent.)

That usually ends up in "so just kill him plz" though, because of what thruine says here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I think it's more likely she'll put herself in a golem like Blish

That's what they want you think. Her disease will begin rapidly progressing to a point where this is the only option left, but it will fail and partially destroy her mind in the process, taking away her advanced intellect. The team tries various alternatives, but no matter what, the answer is the same; there is no hope. Rather than suffer for her remaining days, she asks her friends for help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@thruine.8510 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:

Lord Faren and Braham I would hate to see go as well, now that we are all starting to work as a unit. Why do some players have such a scary tendency to want to see characters die?

It seems this is purely about like and dislike. I think most comments reflect that. Mostly the reason people use "to give the story impact" or "to really draw us in" are just an attempt to cover it up. If I like (sometimes even hate) a character, I'm more apt to dislike them dying because creating characters I respond to at all is seemingly difficult. Especially if they're given any type of cohesive personality. I can think of some characters that just have no affect on me at all and its difficult to care at all what happens to them. I try. I'd rather have the hatred of a character.

Taimi being deus ex machina on multiple occasions is a fact, not an opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Aodlop.1907" said:It would have an impact, it's a really liked character, much like Tybalt. Eir's passing was "meh" because I didn't feel that much invested in her, Taimi's death would hurt though. And so, she should die, in a painful and needlessly cruel way.

Why the hell is it always "kill the character" that players come up with as a solution?

Why is it "hey, lets mame them horribly! That will show them."

Quiet frankly, ever thing needed to put the character on ice (of some format) was already given to us in the very beginning of learning of her character. I'd rather Funt (yes, spelled that way on purpose) rather pull her away from all of that, and force her into college. It would be his right to do so as much as she'd resent him for it. But would keep her safe and out of the way. Granted, at the same time, he wouldn't be able to take credit for anything new and exciting persay. So double edged papyrus.

I realize that players have come not to trust ANET with story writing, but come on... shesh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[The original quote was removed because someone reported their message, so this is a repost from before, but I feel like it needs to be said. Now, it doesn't refer to a direct person's message.]

I need to highlight something, because it misses the point of why members of the community dislike the current direction of the Living World. It's not because we're negative and psychopathic. I can enjoy positive characters when they have relevance and their antics aren't forced down my throat. When they actually fit the setting, it can be a really snazzy thing. I could easily say that people who like Taimi and the cast of characters are passive viewers, who aren't actually engaging with the narrative, but engaging with stereotypes that provide escapism. I'm not going to generalise, however.

The section of the community that dislikes this cast of characters want emotion from the narrative. Characters without emotion are boring, stereotypical husks with no relevance. This is why Braham had a lot of potential before he was character-assassinated in this Episode. His deviation from the typical trend of: 'We're heroes in white' was actually interesting. The section of the community that generally disliked Braham tended to bring up that it wasn't a part of his character to do that. The point is: Braham didn't really have character before Episode 3 of Living World Season 3. He was just a walking stereotype, and Anet tried something and for me, it worked. I actually clapped when Braham rebelled, sue me.

The issue that my section of the community has is that we aren't 'represented' in the narrative. Before someone says: 'We don't need to force representation, stop contradicting yourself.' What I mean is: There's a disagreement of philosophies in how people enjoy the Living World because we haven't been shown anything other than a tunnel vision approach of keeping everything the same way across multiple stories. In every single story, it starts and ends with the same outcome: The main heroes survive and we win, we push back the darkness. We never lose. To elaborate the point a bit more:

LWS3 Episode 1: We push back the White Mantle. 'Lazarus' escapes, but the White Mantle are threatened.LWS3 Episode 2: We save Aurene and the Ring of Fire.LWS3 Episode 3: We locate Braham and save him from peril, along with Rox. We prevent the spread of Jormag.LWS3 Episode 4: We defeat Caudecus and the White Mantle. Demmi dies, but she appears in the same Episode. She's a side character, not a main hero.LWS3 Episode 5: We stop Balthazar's plan and the Dragons go to sleep. Marjory gets injured, but survives.LWS3 Episode 6: We kill Lazarus, Livia survives.Path of Fire: We kill Balthazar, Vlast dies but enters as a really meaningless side character, no main hero dies permanently.LWS4 Episode 1: We stop the mass invasion from becoming far worse. Taimi survives.LWS4 Episode 2: We prevent the Awakened from wiping out the Olmakhan. Rata Primus is destroyed. Everyone survives. Joko runs off with a sample of the Plague.LWS4 Episode 3: We kill Joko. The Scarab Plague is destroyed. We all survive. Faren gets injured but survives.

So, in 30 months (presuming 3 months between each Episode), not a single Main Hero has died. The sudden shift in story-telling began with Living World Season 3, so it's the best starting point IMO. This narrative with the Dragons has lasted almost 5-6 years, and the Main Heroes that have died are: Trahearne, Eir, Personal Story Mentor.

And that's all that I can remember vividly. If I've missed anyone, let me know. This isn't meant to be an attack on people who have a positive outlook of Guild Wars 2, but an objective attempt to elaborate on the issues that a section of the community has against the Living World in its current format. Something really needs to change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Endless Soul.5178 said:I see someone in this group didn't like facing the truth and reported my earlier bloodthirsty monster comment.

Fictional character or not, if you're calling for the death of a crippled teen, or any other character really, that's a reflection on you.. not the game, not the writers, you.

And what if the character should be forced out of the story because they don't have anything left to give? Whether they leave of their own accord, die or just vanish, sometimes it has to happen. For me, Taimi needs to die or disappear because she has nothing to give for the setting or the narrative. It's the same with Braham and Canach. They have nothing left to give. If I'm calling for the death of a fictional character, it's my opinion. It's not real life, it's not like I'm stating that someone at Anet should die because of a narrative. That's nonsensical.

If you're not happy with the fact that characters have to die to make room for others who are more relevant, I feel as if you need to start branching out into other fantasy universes. This isn't controversial, this is common in all settings, apart from Guild Wars 2, from my experience. I believe that this kind of thinking is a very 'bubble-wrap and ice-cream' approach to story-telling, and it's detrimental to the literary world. Escapism only works when reality is present. Without reality, escapism loses its connectivity to the players. In a world without emotional death and departure, any player that wishes for a degree of realism will backlash, and so, a section of the community feels disillusioned with Guild Wars 2's narrative focus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Majory and Kas would be the perfect ones to kill off only because we have emotional depth and have some context for them outside of the whole fighting for the survival of the world thing. One of them dying would cause the other to grow and thus bring on character development, At this point Majory seems like the candidate but Im not sure if it would be right as Kas has had sooooo much development that her going might be for the best to let Majory actually drop her "Tough girl" Act.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ArenaNet Staff

Couple of personal thoughts:

  • I like Taimi and think she adds a lot to the story. I find her character interesting, her dialogue amusing, and her personality quite charming. As a whole, I think she enhances and propels the story in valuable ways.
  • I don't know that the lore says she has a "terminal" condition. I felt it was progressive and debilitating, but didn't sense it was ultimately terminal. (Probably some of you know better, though. Is it, truly?)
  • I am not a fan of what I feel to be overly emotionally manipulative writing, of "kill off this beloved character simply for the thrill of it or because it allegedly, in some warped mind, 'strengthens the story' or simply because, as a writer, I can do that." Death with meaning? Sure. XXXXXXX dies in Little Woman -- I get that, and it was obviously planned by the writer, but it works for me. Kill off everyone I care about? Nope. That is why I have stopped watching a certain popular television series multiple times, because I can't take the manipulation, the trolling, the intended, ugly, forced nature of the narrative. And yeah, I've come back to it, but I rather hate myself for having done so and I'm not sure I'll stick through to the protracted end. :) <--- edited to remove spoiler char name -- sorry!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ArenaNet Staff

Guys -- there are a lot of removed posts here. It seems a topic worth discussion, but please show proper respect to those with differing opinions, and please report only posts in breach of our rules and not simply as a means of trying to silent a dissenting opinion. Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:...XXXXXX dies in Little Woman... <---edited this to remove my spoiler -- you're right, Crash!

At the risk of appearing uncultured, which is entirely accurate,... SPOILER ALERT!

On topic and in actual response, I become more attached to characters than the story line in most games, books, comics, etc. The popular show that was eluded to is one that I've left behind as well. I have no hate for Taimi. In fact, I tend to back fill her narrative to create more empathy in my own mind. Brahm on the other hand, is harder for me to like... his animosity and rudeness grates on me at times. I'm glad that it's faded, and I hope he can forge a better relationship with the Commander again.

PS: I've been travelling all week, so I haven't played any of the latest episode... just in case anything that I've written here doesn't make sense relative to the latest content. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

  • I don't know that the lore says she has a "terminal" condition. I felt it was progressive and debilitating, but didn't sense it was ultimately terminal. (Probably some of you know better, though. Is it, truly?)

Well Taimi did say that as she gets older the degenerative effect may spread to other parts of her body. If that included her vital organs, especially her heart and lungs, it could kill her. Or maybe she/other asura may find a way to prevent that - either a cure for the condition or some sort of life support system to keep her breathing.

If I remember correctly some of her experiments with the chak were along those lines. So my guess is if anything ever did happen to Taimi it would have more to do with unexpected side effects from an attempted cure than something as simple as her condition killing her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:

  • I like Taimi and think she adds a lot to the story. I find her character interesting, her dialogue amusing, and her personality quite charming. As a whole, I think she enhances and propels the story in valuable ways.

She was interesting in the beginning. I don't necessarily dislike her now, but she is way overused (for a character who is rarely there physically), plus the Taimi ex Machina aspect is often a cheat to advance the story or enabled new game mechanics. Also, I really feel like her disability is being emphasized less and less. Overcoming a disability is great, but it seems like at times we're nearly ignoring it's even there. Maybe this is just observational bias, but it feels like back in Season 3, she was practically dragging a leg through the Rata Novus lab, and this episode it feels more like a case of arthritis.

I certainly don't want her gone as a character--I take great issue with what Joko did to her in LS4E1 (from an in story perspective, not from a writing perspective)--but I feel her character needs a slight retooling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So eliminate the npc people care about(Taimi), and then you are stuck for the rest of the story with a bunch of bland npcs? That seems like a great direction for the story to go. Perhaps to increase the drama of the story we could destroy or kill off the most popular city in the game or have the most popular race in the game suddenly die out. Let's go even further. Then all the most prized skins and items suddenly disappear from the game leaving us with only the ones we don't care about..... Wow! This is really shaping up to be an incredible story!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:Kill off everyone I care about? Nope.I rather hate myself for having done so and I'm not sure I'll stick through to the protracted end.

Well, I think the Commander should die... again, this time being eaten by an angsty, emo Dragon for the magic. Then, the game could send us back to the character creation screen to pick out a new name, species, look, profession and reincarnate with all of the original character's progression and equipment, except that attempting to replay stories on the reincarnated character are met with a recap of what the Commander did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...