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Taimi should probably die.


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@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:Couple of personal thoughts:

  • I am not a fan of what I feel to be overly emotionally manipulative writing, of "kill off this beloved character simply for the thrill of it or because it allegedly, in some warped mind, 'strengthens the story' or simply because, as a writer, I can do that." Death with meaning? Sure. XXXXXX dies in Little Woman -- I get that, and it was obviously planned by the writer, but it works for me. Kill off everyone I care about? Nope. That is why I have stopped watching a certain popular television series multiple times, because I can't take the manipulation, the trolling, the intended, ugly, forced nature of the narrative. And yeah, I've come back to it, but I rather hate myself for having done so and I'm not sure I'll stick through to the protracted end. :) <--- edited to remove spoiler char name -- sorry!

Gotta say that's exactly why I stopped watching it, I don't need that kind of "excitement" in my life and there are plenty of other shows revolving around intrigue that are as good. And if I want medieval warfare/magic there's LoTR.

Art is a great way to explore issues more fully, including death, but I don't really appreciate it just as a thing to titillate consumers. I'm not really a consumer of the GW2 plotline unless it results in me getting certain armor/weapon skins, I would be if it was more insightful and geared towards adults.

I really enjoyed Prophecies, though the increasing complexity of the plotline (Lich/Shiro are manipulated by Abaddon, who seems like the ultimate bad guy, but then it turns out Destroyers are actually agents of The Great Destroyer who is controlled by Primordus, who is only one of a number of elder dragons. Whenever this plotline ends I fully expect the elder dragons to actually be agents of whoever bullied the forum moderators in middle school) lost me after Nightfall. I bought EotN to keep up with friends and the new challenging PvE content. Maybe that's something that can be addressed in GW3, if it comes about.

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I feel like the whole thing with transfering your consciousness to a machine / golem is a story beat that definitely could use more exploring. Unfortunately the GW2 writers haven't quite figured out if they want to do a serious story or a goofy story, so moments like Blish's death experience are completely washed away with a fast joke or a quip that's in the next sentence.

It's probably the main thing I don't like, the tone keeps shifting so dramatically all the time.

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@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

  • I am not a fan of what I feel to be overly emotionally manipulative writing, of "kill off this beloved character simply for the thrill of it or because it allegedly, in some warped mind, 'strengthens the story' or simply because, as a writer, I can do that." Death with meaning? Sure. XXXXXX dies in Little Woman -- I get that, and it was obviously planned by the writer, but it works for me. Kill off everyone I care about? Nope. That is why I have stopped watching a certain popular television series multiple times, because I can't take the manipulation, the trolling, the intended, ugly, forced nature of the narrative. And yeah, I've come back to it, but I rather hate myself for having done so and I'm not sure I'll stick through to the protracted end. :) <--- edited to remove spoiler char name -- sorry!

I think, in the light of killing of any character, it should be meaningful always. And as such, killing of the random NPC with the red shirt, so to speak, is less meaningful, than a beloved or hated character.

I personally didn't really feel it with losing the mentor the first time, and it definitely became cheaper when replaying the other order storylines. But one part where I did think it was significant was where Elli lost her significant other Zott. And as far as Asuran characters go she is still by far one that I found to have a more memorable character than some of the main Asura characters tagging along. Definitely waiting for her return at some point. Best Asura Shout-holo-caster.

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I'm not in the "Taimi must die" camp, I like her, I just don't always like how she's used. She's always been the living embodiment of the child prodigy trope, but because of that there's no tension whenever she's involved. We always send her home when things get rough, and even when she does get caught (which is often), there's never any reason to worry because they'd never hurt "the kid". So most of the time she just ends up feeling like a plot device rather than a member of the team. She's the voice on the intercom, the one who solves all our problems when we're not looking, or the carrot dangled in front of us to get the players to run into danger to rescue her.

I understand why Taimi has to be there to solve our problems. Sure in our personal story we could have been a genius inventor, or a masterful mage, but it's equally likely we weren't. So rather then have PCs who were drunken fool Norns rather then Snaff-Prize-Winning Asura suddenly develop a knack for magic research, somebody else gets to solve the problem, just like how we let Canach come up with all our sabotage plans, even if we were a double-sneaky former ash legion, order of whispers agent before becoming pact commander. Unfortunately, this leads to everyone else coming up with the ideas and solving the problems while the commander just gets aimed at anything in the way and set loose to smash faces.

Taimi's just the one that stands out the most. With her solving all the "technical" problems, and her untouchable status as "the kid", she sometimes comes off as a mary sue character, where the only thing she ever does wrong is sometimes come up with solutions that are too good, and never suffers any consequences for bad things that happen to her. Sure she loses Scruffy time and time again, sometimes for years at a time (in game time), but the way the game's story works gives a bad sense of the passage of time. A new player starting today, running through HoT and PoF, would have no idea that there was 2 years between Scruffy 1.0's sacrifice in Rata Novus, and Scruffy 2.0's grand entrance. even for somebody who was playing during LS3, it still can seem like Taimi rebuilt scruffy overnight, and builds all her fancy gadgets just as quick. (Maybe it would help if story chapters were prefaced with what year they took place in.) Sure it's a little egotistical, but I think a lot of players would be happier with Taimi if there was something that took her down a peg, even if she doesn't deserve it. It's the same kind of situation with Trehearne where players who feel like they end up playing second fiddle to NPCs will resent them, even if those characters are fairly likable or inoffensive.

As for Braham, I'm glad he came back instead of just being a brooding antihero forever. I just feel like he doesn't have a reason to hang around any more, and yet he's here. Bringing him and Rox back in the way they did feels a little contrived, as if they just couldn't think of anyone else to come to our rescue. Braham shows up out of nowhere, grumbles a bit, then falls back into his place in the party. He's just kind of along for the ride at this point, helping out because he ended up in the neighborhood and Joko's now a global threat. I'd really rather not drag the melodrama out all season long. If hanging out with us again and fighting alongside each other patched things up between us, then let's get it over with. Braham needs to either clear the air, or go sulk off back to Hoelbrak.

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@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:Couple of personal thoughts:

  • I like Taimi and think she adds a lot to the story. I find her character interesting, her dialogue amusing, and her personality quite charming. As a whole, I think she enhances and propels the story in valuable ways.
  • I don't know that the lore says she has a "terminal" condition. I felt it was progressive and debilitating, but didn't sense it was ultimately terminal. (Probably some of you know better, though. Is it, truly?)
  • I am not a fan of what I feel to be overly emotionally manipulative writing, of "kill off this beloved character simply for the thrill of it or because it allegedly, in some warped mind, 'strengthens the story' or simply because, as a writer, I can do that." Death with meaning? Sure. XXXXXX dies in Little Woman -- I get that, and it was obviously planned by the writer, but it works for me. Kill off everyone I care about? Nope. That is why I have stopped watching a certain popular television series multiple times, because I can't take the manipulation, the trolling, the intended, ugly, forced nature of the narrative. And yeah, I've come back to it, but I rather hate myself for having done so and I'm not sure I'll stick through to the protracted end. :) <--- edited to remove spoiler char name -- sorry!

I think I know which TV show you are referring to because I completely stopped watching it over a year ago but read the spoilers.

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@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

Taimi being deus ex machina on multiple occasions is a fact, not an opinion.

And so what? Not everyone automatically hates those character types. Our characters are basically that in all the worst ways. There's never going to be a time when we face losing them. Characters like that can stay the same or I've seen them grow. She's a little girl and we'll have to see where she grows. I think people need to think just how many characters are done well anywhere. Its not that big of a number. Taking them off the board before you ever get the chance to explore them fully just strikes me as wrong unless you are churning out so many good characters you're a modern day prodigy in writing today. Sure, I find her annoying at times like I do most children in fiction. I think back to any time a hero has children and they become the most annoying aspect of a show. Lots of fans hate female love interest of heroes. I can't think of any of those where fans don't want them dead. I don't know what it is about fans needing some blood. It certainly doesn't elevate the material. It leaves less to work with.

Someone mentioned not many deaths in all the story, but in the personal story we have lots of them. They are just mostly nameless. Just replaying the personal story besides the various unnamed deaths, I lost Apatia and Zott over the course of a handful of chapters. Didn't have much development but I thought they were interesting enough I'd like to see them continue. We've already have such a small of well known characters as it is. But getting rid of those we do have because they annoy someone, that's just a poor excuse to me.

I happen to find most Asura to be incredibly annoying and think of ways we could destroy the race if a Guild Wars 3 ever happens. I hope to god we never see them in another game. But if they're there, I'll get over it and maybe start to appreciate them more. Characters like Taimi help but to me, her characteristics are an Asura issue not deus ex machina. They're all that.

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@"Danikat.8537" said:Well Taimi did say that as she gets older the degenerative effect may spread to other parts of her body. If that included her vital organs, especially her heart and lungs, it could kill her.

We have been told it's a degenerative bone condition. Now, I'm not sure about asura anatomy, but I don't think their organs will be made of bone! :P

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@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:Couple of personal thoughts:

  • I like Taimi and think she adds a lot to the story. I find her character interesting, her dialogue amusing, and her personality quite charming. As a whole, I think she enhances and propels the story in valuable ways.
  • I don't know that the lore says she has a "terminal" condition. I felt it was progressive and debilitating, but didn't sense it was ultimately terminal. (Probably some of you know better, though. Is it, truly?)
  • I am not a fan of what I feel to be overly emotionally manipulative writing, of "kill off this beloved character simply for the thrill of it or because it allegedly, in some warped mind, 'strengthens the story' or simply because, as a writer, I can do that." Death with meaning? Sure. XXXXXXX dies in Little Woman -- I get that, and it was obviously planned by the writer, but it works for me. Kill off everyone I care about? Nope. That is why I have stopped watching a certain popular television series multiple times, because I can't take the manipulation, the trolling, the intended, ugly, forced nature of the narrative. And yeah, I've come back to it, but I rather hate myself for having done so and I'm not sure I'll stick through to the protracted end. :) <--- edited to remove spoiler char name -- sorry!

Or, as Elmer (the) Fudd has repeated time and again---"I'm off to kill the wabbit"-----------------------which would leave him with absolutely NOTHING else to do (except kill himself---------------and I seriously doubt he even knows which end of the gun gets loaded-------and which is the exit!!

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@"Thornwolf.9721" said:Majory and Kas would be the perfect ones to kill off only because we have emotional depth and have some context for them outside of the whole fighting for the survival of the world thing. One of them dying would cause the other to grow and thus bring on character development, At this point Majory seems like the candidate but Im not sure if it would be right as Kas has had sooooo much development that her going might be for the best to let Majory actually drop her "Tough girl" Act.

That WOULD clear up the "love triangle" in the storyline-----------wouldn't it?

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I think emphasis is taken away from Taimi being crippled because she's always either in a golem or talking over an intercom in this episode. I also find her charming and fun, it's only Kasmeer, Marjory and Braham (though he is getting better now that his edgy phase is wearing off) who I don't like of the main cast. I'd be all for Kas and Jory being replaced by Faren as the human representative in Dragon's Watch, Jory is kinda generic and Kasmeer's god obsession is grating. Faren has more personality than both combined.

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@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@"Danikat.8537" said:Well Taimi did say that as she gets older the degenerative effect may spread to other parts of her body. If that included her vital organs, especially her heart and lungs, it could kill her.

We have been told it's a degenerative bone condition. Now, I'm not sure about asura anatomy, but I don't think their organs will be made of bone! :P

Ah, I don't tend to watch the developer interviews, so I missed that. In-game it's just been referred to as a degenerative condition, which is admittedly vague but could mean it could affect any part of her body.

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I quit caring about the story as a reason to play back in LS2 when the writers made that grotesque story turn with Wynne, Caithe & Faolain. I haven't trusted them since, and haven't wanted to even try. I skip every bit as much of story cutscene as I am allowed. Killing off Taimi "just because" would be a couple steps removed from that, and yet would continue to reinforce (for me at least) that untrustworthiness. Why should I be willing to invest myself in liking or caring about what happens to characters that will either be killed off on a whim of a writer, or worse, be forced to commit an atrocity because someone thinks stories need pain to be meaningful. I love this game, I enjoy many many aspects about it, but the story is one area that I have become a passionate antagonist against GW2.

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IMHO, characters should only die in 3 situations:

  • Suddenly and unexpectedly when part of a multi-protagonist story with serious and realistic gray morality tone, to make clear the basic and powerful "anyone can die here" that make such stories so good.
  • Contemplatively, within an intimist story where the characters struggle to grow internally, with death marking the end of their struggle, be it as a final step towards their true self, or as an impossible to overcome, tragic, final obstacle in the path of salvation.
  • As part of a very meaningful action initiated by the character itself. Think of heroes sacrificing their lives for the greater good, villains falling victims of their own evil desires, anti-heroes choosing to accept a fitting destiny, or a designed example-person making a mistake extremely relevant to the story.

Guild Wars 2 is not a multi-protagonist story, and only allows subtle dashes of gray, so the first option is totally out. The characters aren't really multidimensional either, so an "introspective" death is not going to work. This leaves the third, more archetypal death.So, please, Anet, don't kill characters without a MEANINGFUL action initiated by THEM. Also, please don't kill anybody, (good, bad or a bit of both) without HUGE consequences for EVERYONE.

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To be honest, thanks to Taimi, I enjoy the story much more. Her comments always make me smile. So no matter how painful death you wish to her, I hope that Anet won't listen to you. And I know many people who would hope the same.

You miss the point. I too enjoy Taimi, I like her a lot.That's exactly why I want her dead.

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