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World Restructuring Update 1


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@Roxanne.6140 said:

@Roxanne.6140 said:In this new system, there will be no server pride and winning has no meaning because of matchmaker. Not that both of them have a huge presence now but they will be even less in the new system. But of course who is reading this anyway rofl.

Server pride hasn't been a thing for a few years now...

Good news is that guild pride will be more of a thing with this though

So the logic is if something is wrong or broken or missing, accept it's broken and make it worse?

Why is guild or alliance pride worse than server pride?

Because there is a whole segment of the playerbase who will be left out! Doesn't this go against the historical design principle of the game developers?

Thats not objectively better but more a historical artifact of the existing system. Plus its a small minority and why aren't they in guilds, at least community guilds anyway?

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@The Last Hobbit.6492 said:If alliances are going to be a maximum of 500 players then why not just use guilds? What benefit does an alliance bring? What are the differences?

If we're going to be forming/joining dedicated WvW guilds, those already have a cap of 500, surely a new system is unnecessary?

I suspect the primary aspect is to not make guilds 100% about WvW and to allow players who are not in the same guild to still play together.

The new system also prevents stacking beyond the alliance cap. In the current system it's possible for the top N players (1000's of them) to all get on the same server, be it guilds or solo, and steam roll other servers. The new system will assign the alliances in such a way to minimize this.

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@"Jalad Lantana.3027" said:How many players from an alliance will be allowed per map?

No change from current iteration.

Will alliances be limited to competing on one map or match up at a time?

No change from current iteration, 1 Alliance will be on 1 "New World", and thus play like a current server.

What will be the work/time flow for creating alliances in relation the the match making schedule?

From the old thread: You can make the new alliance and changes at any time until the last week of the 2 month period. During this last week, it is locked down so the servers can calculate the "new worlds". Once done, I guess you'll be able to start changing it again, but it won't take effect until next change 2 months later.

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@The Last Hobbit.6492 said:If alliances are going to be a maximum of 500 players then why not just use guilds? What benefit does an alliance bring? What are the differences?

If we're going to be forming/joining dedicated WvW guilds, those already have a cap of 500, surely a new system is unnecessary?

Because it allows 2 guilds of 250 members each to stay together. Or 50 guilds of 10 players.

A guild of 500 players are going to be their own alliance (but honestly doubt there are many guilds with that many active players left).

This does have some benefits like multiple guilds to claim objectives with etc.

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@Roxanne.6140 said:

@Roxanne.6140 said:In this new system, there will be no server pride and winning has no meaning because of matchmaker. Not that both of them have a huge presence now but they will be even less in the new system. But of course who is reading this anyway rofl.

Server pride hasn't been a thing for a few years now...

Good news is that guild pride will be more of a thing with this though

So the logic is if something is wrong or broken or missing, accept it's broken and make it worse?

Why is guild or alliance pride worse than server pride?

Because there is a whole segment of the playerbase who will be left out! Doesn't this go against the historical design principle of the game developers?

Who is going to be left out ?

Everyone gets into WvW, if you haven't flagged a WvW guild, you're considered a solo player and put into a random server. And a solo player always have the option of joining a wvw guild for the next season.

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Thanks for keeping us in the loop, Raymond but it still seems like this is a minimum half a year away. Its been at least 3-4 months now and the back-end systems seem like they are mostly done but still have work to be done. Then you have UI and so on to get through before full on QA testing. You can already see the alliances formed and players forcing themselves to bandwagon to keep action going. Its a shame you guys can't get more resources to push this content along.

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@"joneirikb.7506" said:This does have some benefits like multiple guilds to claim objectives with etc.Well, no.

If the WvW rep is seperate from the guild rep, it doesnt matter if you are in a 500 man community guild or a 10 man 50 guild alliance when it comes to claiming. People in that community guild would still rep other guilds all the time and claim on them.

This is a good thing though. Alliances are merely an organisation, not an "advantage". And if they do bring some advantage well a 500 man guild form one 500 man alliance and everyone in it rep different guilds as usual for claiming.

Either way you twist and turn there it, unless Anet artificially add incentives that has gameplay implications, there is no difference from now in that area.

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@aspirine.5839 said:I don't have a guild, nor do I want to be in one. So basically I am kitten..

If your server has a community guild why not join it? Community guilds won't have any restrictions. Assuming that you want to play with people on your current server.

Otherwise you'll still be able to play you'll just be put in different worlds every 8 weeks.

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@morrolan.9608 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:If you have actually read what was being said, you'd find it had nothing to do with RPing in WvW, but a lot to do with servers still having impact on open world instances. And impact many people count on, which, after that change, will be gone.

But that is not a concern for WvW devs but more the PvE devs.

Yeah, because handling game wide systems so that they just function for one part of the game but arent optimized or ideal for other parts isnt at all problematic?

Like, oh i dunno, the current guild hall system, with their WvW upgrades locked behind the expansion. In a very rigid system that wasnt easy to change

Or skill balance...

edit: I guess it doesnt matter who thinks about it in the end, still would be good to know some is aware and on the case.

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@morrolan.9608 said:

@"aspirine.5839" said:I don't have a guild, nor do I want to be in one. So basically I am kitten..

If your server has a community guild why not join it? Community guilds won't have any restrictions. Assuming that you want to play with people on your current server.

Otherwise you'll still be able to play you'll just be put in different worlds every 8 weeks.

Yeah I dont really see why people get so hung up on this aspect. Either you become an unguilded free floater - which is perfectly fine, WvW still works when you click a border - or you can join a community alliance/guild (same thing) and just not rep.

I am 100% certain that new casual communities with no rules except active the last couple of months will be formed that accept literally everyone up to the limit. Because why not? Its just players creating smaller "link servers" that join with others just like current links.

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@Seera.5916 said:

@"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:So. What happens to the RPer's and their server(s)?

D:

Find PvE maps or custom PvP rooms to do the RP you do in WvW. Because, personally, RP should not be done in WvW due to the map cap of players.

There are only X number of spots for people to come into WvW. RP can happen on any map, anywhere. WvW can only happen on a specific map. And a large number of RP'ers on an active WvW player map is a hinderance for the world of those RP'ers. It means that the map gets overrun by enemies as the players who own the land can't get enough players onto the map to defend.

Which means I'm basically saying that RP concerns should be the very very very very very last thing ANet devs consider when designing this system. And things put in place for RP'ers should only happen if they wouldn't negatively impact WvW players or would benefit WvW players.

He's not talking about RPing IN WvW... no one is EVER talking about that when they say RPers regarding this change. Currently, your WORLD/SERVER choice affects what PVE maps you get put in to. If WORLDS/SERVERS are now 100% determined by a PvP mode such as WvW, then RPERS will no longer be matched with other RPERS on PVE maps. Stop being obtuse. All we're asking is for a way to flag ourselves as RPers to increase our chances of being put on the same map as other RPers when we enter any PVE map, since we will no longer be able to get in to maps with other RPers by simply joining the "unofficial RP servers" Tarnished Coast or Piken Square.

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@"Lateralis.5701" said:It isn't particularly clear to me right now how the changes to WvW will impact upon my ability to get gifts of battle. Will it still be a simple matter of hopping into WvW to do that, or will I have to join a guild marked as WvW? Or mark my account as being a WvW account?

From what we've been given: no, you won't be marking yourself as a WvW account to enter WvW. You only place a mark in your guild panel, where you will select one of your guilds as your usual WvW guild - that guild must also be designated by the leader as a WvW-playing guild for it to be chosen. The WvW matchmaking system will place you on a world with other players that have marked the same guild, and with other guilds that are in an alliance with your guild, as designated by the guild leaders. Picking a WvW guild is not necessary to enter WvW.

If you have not selected a WvW guild when the worlds are created - this will happen every 8 weeks if you miss it or want to change it - then you are a "solo player." You might find a few guild mates here or there, supposing they didn't mark a guild either. You could potentially find a lot of guild mates with you if you land on your guild's world. In the same vein, you may end up playing against your guild for 8 weeks.

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@Sojourner.4621 said:

@"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:So. What happens to the RPer's and their server(s)?

D:

Find PvE maps or custom PvP rooms to do the RP you do in WvW. Because, personally, RP should not be done in WvW due to the map cap of players.

There are only X number of spots for people to come into WvW. RP can happen on any map, anywhere. WvW can only happen on a specific map. And a large number of RP'ers on an active WvW player map is a hinderance for the world of those RP'ers. It means that the map gets overrun by enemies as the players who own the land can't get enough players onto the map to defend.

Which means I'm basically saying that RP concerns should be the very very very very very last thing ANet devs consider when designing this system. And things put in place for RP'ers should only happen if they wouldn't negatively impact WvW players or would benefit WvW players.

He's not talking about RPing IN WvW... no one is EVER talking about that when they say RPers regarding this change. Currently, your WORLD/SERVER choice affects what PVE maps you get put in to. If WORLDS/SERVERS are now 100% determined by a PvP mode such as WvW, then RPERS will no longer be matched with other RPERS on PVE maps. Stop being obtuse. All we're asking is for a way to flag ourselves as RPers to increase our chances of being put on the same map as other RPers when we enter any PVE map, since we will no longer be able to get in to maps with other RPers by simply joining the "unofficial RP servers" Tarnished Coast or Piken Square.

Why not make an RP guild? Then right click and join instance?

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@Rysdude.3824 said:

@"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:So. What happens to the RPer's and their server(s)?

D:

Find PvE maps or custom PvP rooms to do the RP you do in WvW. Because, personally, RP should not be done in WvW due to the map cap of players.

There are only X number of spots for people to come into WvW. RP can happen on any map, anywhere. WvW can only happen on a specific map. And a large number of RP'ers on an active WvW player map is a hinderance for the world of those RP'ers. It means that the map gets overrun by enemies as the players who own the land can't get enough players onto the map to defend.

Which means I'm basically saying that RP concerns should be the very very very very very last thing ANet devs consider when designing this system. And things put in place for RP'ers should only happen if they wouldn't negatively impact WvW players or would benefit WvW players.

He's not talking about RPing IN WvW... no one is EVER talking about that when they say RPers regarding this change. Currently, your WORLD/SERVER choice affects what PVE maps you get put in to. If WORLDS/SERVERS are now 100% determined by a PvP mode such as WvW, then RPERS will no longer be matched with other RPERS on PVE maps. Stop being obtuse. All we're asking is for a way to flag ourselves as RPers to increase our chances of being put on the same map as other RPers when we enter any PVE map, since we will no longer be able to get in to maps with other RPers by simply joining the "unofficial RP servers" Tarnished Coast or Piken Square.

Why not make an RP guild? Then right click and join instance?

Because there are way more than 500 RPers... and this is like putting a bandaid on a missing limb. The fact is that at game launch, and until they made the initial mega-server changes, it was possible to, as an RPER, wander the world and run in to other RPers doing their thing, on any map in the game. After the megaserver this got a bit muddled where the best way to see other RPers was through being on the same server, but even then the only places you still saw RP anymore were in towns/cities and almost nowhere else. It already stands that finding RP on normal open pve maps is like finding a unicorn (actually I think I see The Dreamer on players more often than I see RP in PvE maps). What we're asking for, a checkbox that adds some priority to megaserver instance selection for RPers, would help us get that feeling back, eliminate the downsides of the WvW switch, and would ALSO get RPers off the maps of normal PvE players, thereby helping them out too.

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@Sojourner.4621 said:

@"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:So. What happens to the RPer's and their server(s)?

D:

Find PvE maps or custom PvP rooms to do the RP you do in WvW. Because, personally, RP should not be done in WvW due to the map cap of players.

There are only X number of spots for people to come into WvW. RP can happen on any map, anywhere. WvW can only happen on a specific map. And a large number of RP'ers on an active WvW player map is a hinderance for the world of those RP'ers. It means that the map gets overrun by enemies as the players who own the land can't get enough players onto the map to defend.

Which means I'm basically saying that RP concerns should be the very very very very very last thing ANet devs consider when designing this system. And things put in place for RP'ers should only happen if they wouldn't negatively impact WvW players or would benefit WvW players.

He's not talking about RPing IN WvW... no one is EVER talking about that when they say RPers regarding this change. Currently, your WORLD/SERVER choice affects what PVE maps you get put in to. If WORLDS/SERVERS are now 100% determined by a PvP mode such as WvW, then RPERS will no longer be matched with other RPERS on PVE maps. Stop being obtuse. All we're asking is for a way to flag ourselves as RPers to increase our chances of being put on the same map as other RPers when we enter any PVE map, since we will no longer be able to get in to maps with other RPers by simply joining the "unofficial RP servers" Tarnished Coast or Piken Square.

Its is my belief that Anet will take the easy way out - they simply wont touch the current server system. At least not at the start.

Alliances and WvW worlds can be added on top of existing servers.

So in short, I would still be on the server Far Shiverpeaks and my PvE instances will still filter as the server Far Shiverpeaks, but when I join WvW it will put me with my WvW repped alliance Far Shiverpeaks Community Guild in the WvW world Glorious Danger Noodles. Or you keep the same server names - I would be on the Far Shiverpeaks world by chance - but it has nothing to do with the server I joined ages ago. Its just same name on a new bunch of players. The Far shiverpeaks server still has the same players as today.

Get it? The servers dont matter for WvW anymore. Nothing changes for PvE, the servers are still there. Anet can make up new WvW worlds.

All they need to do then is remove the population limiter in the server list, since it doesnt matter.

If course Anet could do it much fancier and streamline the PvE megaserver, but they dont need to in order to maintain PvE as is.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:So. What happens to the RPer's and their server(s)?

D:

Find PvE maps or custom PvP rooms to do the RP you do in WvW. Because, personally, RP should not be done in WvW due to the map cap of players.

There are only X number of spots for people to come into WvW. RP can happen on any map, anywhere. WvW can only happen on a specific map. And a large number of RP'ers on an active WvW player map is a hinderance for the world of those RP'ers. It means that the map gets overrun by enemies as the players who own the land can't get enough players onto the map to defend.

Which means I'm basically saying that RP concerns should be the very very very very very last thing ANet devs consider when designing this system. And things put in place for RP'ers should only happen if they wouldn't negatively impact WvW players or would benefit WvW players.

He's not talking about RPing IN WvW... no one is EVER talking about that when they say RPers regarding this change. Currently, your WORLD/SERVER choice affects what PVE maps you get put in to. If WORLDS/SERVERS are now 100% determined by a PvP mode such as WvW, then RPERS will no longer be matched with other RPERS on PVE maps. Stop being obtuse. All we're asking is for a way to flag ourselves as RPers to increase our chances of being put on the same map as other RPers when we enter any PVE map, since we will no longer be able to get in to maps with other RPers by simply joining the "unofficial RP servers" Tarnished Coast or Piken Square.

Its is my belief that Anet will take the easy way out - they simply wont touch the current server system. At least not at the start.

Alliances and WvW worlds can be added
on top
of existing servers.

So in short, I would still be on the server Far Shiverpeaks and my PvE instances will still filter as the server Far Shiverpeaks, but when I join WvW it will put me with my WvW repped alliance Far Shiverpeaks Community Guild in the WvW world Glorious Danger Noodles.

Get it? The servers dont matter for WvW anymore. Nothing changes for PvE, the servers are still there. Anet can make up new WvW worlds.

All they need to do then is remove the population limiter in the server list, since it doesnt matter.

If course Anet
could
do it much fancier and streamline the PvE megaserver, but they dont need to in order to maintain PvE as is.

They already said, in the original and this post, that worlds are going away completely for everyone, and that your world will be 100% based on the WvW world that you are matched in to. That's why they are considering giving people titles for the server they are on when the change happens... because that world won't exist anymore. They also, in the original post, said that they hadn't considered the impact that this would have for RPers and would have to look further in to it, further suggesting that we are correct in assuming this would screw our pve instance selection. We're just looking for an update.

@Raymond Lukes.6305 said:

@Tolmos.8395 said:I would like to reiterate the previous questions posed, and not yet answered, about how this will affect Roleplayers.This is something we hadn’t fully considered and we’ll start looking into possible solutions.

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Maybe the rp players should like go to the general forums section and ask for a RP tag, since that involves pve megaserver sorting, not the wvw alliance sorting. In fact it's something they should have continued to ask for ever since megaserver first came out 4 years ago. There are also other methods to meet up with like minded people already, lfg/squads/guilds/friends list, which will still be usable after the world changes.

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@XenesisII.1540 said:Maybe the rp players should like go to the general forums section and ask for a RP tag, since that involves pve megaserver sorting, not the wvw alliance sorting. In fact it's something they should have continued to ask for ever since megaserver first came out 4 years ago. There are also other methods to meet up with like minded people already, lfg/squads/guilds/friends list, which will still be usable after the world changes.

The WvW alliance sorting will directly effect the current PvE mega-server sorting. The two are inextricably linked. And just because something isn't important to you personally doesn't mean it can't be for other people. Maybe some wvw players should like, let a question be asked BECAUSE IT IN NO WAY EFFECTS OR EVEN HURTS THEM THAT THIS QUESTION GETS AN ANSWER. We even got dev confirmation that this WvW sorting will screw PvE sorting.

@Raymond Lukes.6305 said:

@Tolmos.8395 said:I would like to reiterate the previous questions posed, and not yet answered, about how this will affect Roleplayers.This is something we hadn’t fully considered and we’ll start looking into possible solutions.

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@Sojourner.4621 said:

@"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:So. What happens to the RPer's and their server(s)?

D:

Find PvE maps or custom PvP rooms to do the RP you do in WvW. Because, personally, RP should not be done in WvW due to the map cap of players.

There are only X number of spots for people to come into WvW. RP can happen on any map, anywhere. WvW can only happen on a specific map. And a large number of RP'ers on an active WvW player map is a hinderance for the world of those RP'ers. It means that the map gets overrun by enemies as the players who own the land can't get enough players onto the map to defend.

Which means I'm basically saying that RP concerns should be the very very very very very last thing ANet devs consider when designing this system. And things put in place for RP'ers should only happen if they wouldn't negatively impact WvW players or would benefit WvW players.

He's not talking about RPing IN WvW... no one is EVER talking about that when they say RPers regarding this change. Currently, your WORLD/SERVER choice affects what PVE maps you get put in to. If WORLDS/SERVERS are now 100% determined by a PvP mode such as WvW, then RPERS will no longer be matched with other RPERS on PVE maps. Stop being obtuse. All we're asking is for a way to flag ourselves as RPers to increase our chances of being put on the same map as other RPers when we enter any PVE map, since we will no longer be able to get in to maps with other RPers by simply joining the "unofficial RP servers" Tarnished Coast or Piken Square.

Its is my belief that Anet will take the easy way out - they simply wont touch the current server system. At least not at the start.

Alliances and WvW worlds can be added
on top
of existing servers.

So in short, I would still be on the server Far Shiverpeaks and my PvE instances will still filter as the server Far Shiverpeaks, but when I join WvW it will put me with my WvW repped alliance Far Shiverpeaks Community Guild in the WvW world Glorious Danger Noodles.

Get it? The servers dont matter for WvW anymore. Nothing changes for PvE, the servers are still there. Anet can make up new WvW worlds.

All they need to do then is remove the population limiter in the server list, since it doesnt matter.

If course Anet
could
do it much fancier and streamline the PvE megaserver, but they dont need to in order to maintain PvE as is.

They already said, in the original and this post, that worlds are going away completely for everyone, and that your world will be 100% based on the WvW world that you are matched in to. That's why they are considering giving people titles for the server they are on when the change happens... because that world won't exist anymore. They also, in the original post, said that they hadn't considered the impact that this would have for RPers and would have to look further in to it, further suggesting that we are correct in assuming this would screw our pve instance selection. We're just looking for an update.

Have they?

All I read about is worlds, which arent servers.

All they need to do is to maintain a single text string in the player database and keep filtering PvE instances by that, while they use the server for WvW.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:So. What happens to the RPer's and their server(s)?

D:

Find PvE maps or custom PvP rooms to do the RP you do in WvW. Because, personally, RP should not be done in WvW due to the map cap of players.

There are only X number of spots for people to come into WvW. RP can happen on any map, anywhere. WvW can only happen on a specific map. And a large number of RP'ers on an active WvW player map is a hinderance for the world of those RP'ers. It means that the map gets overrun by enemies as the players who own the land can't get enough players onto the map to defend.

Which means I'm basically saying that RP concerns should be the very very very very very last thing ANet devs consider when designing this system. And things put in place for RP'ers should only happen if they wouldn't negatively impact WvW players or would benefit WvW players.

He's not talking about RPing IN WvW... no one is EVER talking about that when they say RPers regarding this change. Currently, your WORLD/SERVER choice affects what PVE maps you get put in to. If WORLDS/SERVERS are now 100% determined by a PvP mode such as WvW, then RPERS will no longer be matched with other RPERS on PVE maps. Stop being obtuse. All we're asking is for a way to flag ourselves as RPers to increase our chances of being put on the same map as other RPers when we enter any PVE map, since we will no longer be able to get in to maps with other RPers by simply joining the "unofficial RP servers" Tarnished Coast or Piken Square.

Its is my belief that Anet will take the easy way out - they simply wont touch the current server system. At least not at the start.

Alliances and WvW worlds can be added
on top
of existing servers.

So in short, I would still be on the server Far Shiverpeaks and my PvE instances will still filter as the server Far Shiverpeaks, but when I join WvW it will put me with my WvW repped alliance Far Shiverpeaks Community Guild in the WvW world Glorious Danger Noodles.

Get it? The servers dont matter for WvW anymore. Nothing changes for PvE, the servers are still there. Anet can make up new WvW worlds.

All they need to do then is remove the population limiter in the server list, since it doesnt matter.

If course Anet
could
do it much fancier and streamline the PvE megaserver, but they dont need to in order to maintain PvE as is.

Yeah I expect something like this too.

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