*Spoiler* Specifically About Joko — Guild Wars 2 Forums

*Spoiler* Specifically About Joko

I must say, the ending for this episode was quite well done. The speech and the cinematic were very well done. I have this current head canon that he's not actually dead and it was all fake. (Somehow even though Aurene did eat him.) Because he was constantly making stage references and what better thing to do than to die on stage in front of an audience only to appear afterwards! Any true wants to die on stage at least once in their life. (Maybe it was a joko actor from Vabbi?) What I'm most concerned with is the story. I felt like this conclusion to the Joko story was fairly rushed.

A reason that irked at me were that Joko's immortality was famed. Spanning at least many hundreds of hundreds of years of history. We never had one mention that his immortality would be an issue. (And it indeed wasn't in the end.) But not even a lantern shined on it really. (Until the very ending absolutely excellent cinematic.) I never see a character mention that the Commander has zero plan to kill Joko even though he's famed to be immortal. Nothing like "You just plan on whacking him with your sword until he surrenders? He's immortal." or maybe an excuse like, he's actually faking his immortality. I felt it was an unutilized part of a serious bit of lore, and personally detrimental to Joko as a famed character that spanned two games. Because the commander being canonically as good as they are, probably wouldn't have rushed in without a plan. That's Braham's job. ;)

So my ultimate question for you, is; I understand parts of this story were cut and shortened to fit the need to finish this Living Story enemies arc. However were there things you wanted to do with Joko, or parts of the story that were cut that you'd like to mention, that would have been great story telling wise, but did not make it into the final version of the episode?

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Comments

  • Haleydawn.3764Haleydawn.3764 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 3, 2018

    @Tanner Blackfeather.6509 said:
    As a GW1 player whose main is a decendant of my GW1 main, I loved that we (via Aurene) finally cleaned up our ancestor's mess. I find the "circumvent immortality via magic-eating predator" solution perfectly fine! Me and my partner were cheering when Aurene tackled him and were cackling at the squeamishness of some of the NPCs :D

    I like the fact Aurene knocks you back too, she was determined to end Joko!
    Taimi's reaction was the best, "What, what's Aurene eating..? heaves ~ "Is she done yet? Oh. No. No, no she's not."

    The above was written as part of an attempt to waste time.

  • Alimar.8760Alimar.8760 Member ✭✭✭

    @PeterFries.1057 said:
    Why shouldn't the Commander (who has killed two Elder Dragons and a god) just assume the tales of this tyrant's immortality weren't as phony as any of his other lies?

    I thing that bothered me is it was never stated out loud either by the commander or by a companion. But with that response I think I am satisfied. Let's close the curtain till Joko comes up with his next biggest act! :D

  • Alimar.8760Alimar.8760 Member ✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    That is quite gutting to hear it was cut. That would helped improve the episode tenfold in my opinion

    It would have been nice to at least have a comment made here or there about it.

  • FrizzFreston.5290FrizzFreston.5290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @PeterFries.1057 said:
    We originally planned some content where you were researching Joko's past in order to find his weakness, a way to defeat his immortality. That honestly wasn't anywhere near as compelling as the storyline we released. We've seen it demonstrated again and again that Joko rewrote Elonian history and embellished his omnipotence over the generations in order to subjugate his citizens. Why shouldn't the Commander (who has killed two Elder Dragons and a god) just assume the tales of this tyrant's immortality weren't as phony as any of his other lies?

    That is quite gutting to hear it was cut. That would helped improve the episode tenfold in my opinion

    Yeah. I dunno, I personally wouldve liked an origin story on Joko. But right up to the end the last instance it was compelling. Until his untimely demise. Then it was more like "oh... but... but hes interesting....:( "

    I dont see why he couldnt be spit out, pretty much drained of magic and be buried and locked away again. and/or spread his bodyparts all over The world.

    I very much like an open end to such an interesting Villain. He doesnt even need to return ever again, as long as the possibility is open.

    This episode felt to me like, I guess they dont understand the value of reoccurring villains.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @PeterFries.1057 said:
    We originally planned some content where you were researching Joko's past in order to find his weakness, a way to defeat his immortality. That honestly wasn't anywhere near as compelling as the storyline we released. We've seen it demonstrated again and again that Joko rewrote Elonian history and embellished his omnipotence over the generations in order to subjugate his citizens. Why shouldn't the Commander (who has killed two Elder Dragons and a god) just assume the tales of this tyrant's immortality weren't as phony as any of his other lies?

    Because people like Turai Ossa proved that he was infact immortal and invincible

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @PeterFries.1057 said:
    We originally planned some content where you were researching Joko's past in order to find his weakness, a way to defeat his immortality. That honestly wasn't anywhere near as compelling as the storyline we released. We've seen it demonstrated again and again that Joko rewrote Elonian history and embellished his omnipotence over the generations in order to subjugate his citizens. Why shouldn't the Commander (who has killed two Elder Dragons and a god) just assume the tales of this tyrant's immortality weren't as phony as any of his other lies?

    Because people like Turai Ossa proved that he was infact immortal and invincible

    Or they just didn’t have a means to kill them. How many had thought dragons were impossible to kill until Zhaitan was killed?

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @PeterFries.1057 said:
    We originally planned some content where you were researching Joko's past in order to find his weakness, a way to defeat his immortality. That honestly wasn't anywhere near as compelling as the storyline we released. We've seen it demonstrated again and again that Joko rewrote Elonian history and embellished his omnipotence over the generations in order to subjugate his citizens. Why shouldn't the Commander (who has killed two Elder Dragons and a god) just assume the tales of this tyrant's immortality weren't as phony as any of his other lies?

    Because people like Turai Ossa proved that he was infact immortal and invincible

    Or they just didn’t have a means to kill them. How many had thought dragons were impossible to kill until Zhaitan was killed?

    I never liked the way we combat elder dragons either

  • Alimar.8760Alimar.8760 Member ✭✭✭

    Seems to me that Anet has a policy to make content that's "contained" so that people who buy 1 expansion don't miss out on story or for other reasons. Evidence for it is everywhere, and it very much sounds like they were told they had to wrap up Joko in 3 episodes. (For instance LS3 map mechanics that are only for that map and are never used again. Kodan Torches, Lava Tubes, Glider Skills.) Which I feel is a fine business model because it prevents player dissatisfaction if they only buy 1 episode, or 1 expansion here and there. But I do agree that the idea that you're required to "One and done" a villain or "Monster of the day" the villain then move onto the next feels absurd both storytelling and design.

  • Orimidu.9604Orimidu.9604 Member ✭✭✭

    @Alimar.8760 said:
    Seems to me that Anet has a policy to make content that's "contained" so that people who buy 1 expansion don't miss out on story or for other reasons. Evidence for it is everywhere, and it very much sounds like they were told they had to wrap up Joko in 3 episodes. (For instance LS3 map mechanics that are only for that map and are never used again. Kodan Torches, Lava Tubes, Glider Skills.) Which I feel is a fine business model because it prevents player dissatisfaction if they only buy 1 episode, or 1 expansion here and there. But I do agree that the idea that you're required to "One and done" a villain or "Monster of the day" the villain then move onto the next feels absurd both storytelling and design.

    That and Joko isn't a new creation like the dragons. He's been a villain since the beginning, and given the amount of character development and plot given to him in both Nightfall and GW2's Elona, he certainly deserves to have a better end than dues-ex-dragon.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    @Neil Pollner II.7602 said:
    Hi all.

    As the main writer for the A story of episode 3, and as a member of the team that broke this season’s arc/story, I can tell you that bringing the conflict with Joko to a deadly conclusion was not about sewing up lose threads. Or finding an antagonist we can just kill. We know that killing anyone iconic will be met with applause as well as boos. That’s testimony to having a rich world with rich characters and a wide fan base that is passionate and really connected to the experience. We expected that some will love how we orchestrated Joko’s demise and some will have issues with it. Both are valid. But please know, we don’t plan and do anything like this casually or for fleeting reasons. We pour over story and dig in deep and care immensely about the world and characters.

    So please trust me — episode 3’s developments and joko’s fate were not cavalier or whimsical dart throws.

    Thank you all for being so involved and for caring so much. That more than anything makes this job a pleasure!

    Are you allowed to confirm that we will get more on Joko's backstory later in the season? Like his origins and what-not? Probably not, but I figured it was worth a shot to ask. That was one of the things I was really looking forward to and kind of hoped we would get this episode as I knew he was reaching his conclusion. It would be really sad if we didn't at least get a vision or somekind of lore collectables somewhere that would tell us his full story. :(

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @PeterFries.1057 said:
    We originally planned some content where you were researching Joko's past in order to find his weakness, a way to defeat his immortality. That honestly wasn't anywhere near as compelling as the storyline we released. We've seen it demonstrated again and again that Joko rewrote Elonian history and embellished his omnipotence over the generations in order to subjugate his citizens. Why shouldn't the Commander (who has killed two Elder Dragons and a god) just assume the tales of this tyrant's immortality weren't as phony as any of his other lies?

    Just noticed this when I was scrolling up. Would have really loved to find out about his past to find his weakness. And as mentioned above, am still holding out hope that we will at least learn his backstory even if it isn't a major part of the story of the current episode and has little relevance now that he's out of the way.

  • Palador.2170Palador.2170 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personally, I loved the ending. The fact is, we're on a different level than him now. Yes, he had a lot of power, but it was the power to throw endless minions at something. The Commander (and Friends! Saturdays, at 9:30 am!) is someone that cuts through endless minions and takes out the forces behind them.

    Zhaitan. Scarlet Briar. Mordremoth. Evon Gnashblade. Balthazar. This is what we're used to, now. Joko's old dungeon level, like Gaheron Baelfire.

    Once beaten down, dealing with him should have been easy. For all of his power, he's still linked to a body. Chop him up and seal each part in cement somewhere. (Maybe save the head to present to Mad King Thorn when he shows back up this year.) Or feed him to a magic eating dragon, which is what we actually did. Personally, I was hoping we'd stick him into a golem like Blish, and then turn it off.

    And honestly? We (the Commander) needed a clean win. Too many of our victories have turned into terrible things in the end. But Joko was evil, and there were people dragging out the fight for their own ends. He crossed the line, so we stepped in and dealt with him. The Order of Shadows will just have to deal with it, unless they want to get in our way too.

    Lip synching is just mime karaoke.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    Someone who played GW1 may be able to correct me but, I feel we don't understand the rules of death in this world well enough.
    In GW2 we first met Joko in the domain of the lost, and I doubt it was his first trip there, so I bet he can come back...

    Him pointing out his immortality being understated I believe. I think when he returns we'll have to find some way to stop him from coming back, or lock him up so he can only return once a year like the mad king (I think I recall WP talking about them having history).

    Question is if he isn't fully gone, for how long? Are we likely going to see the next 3 or so LS dealing with kralk leading up to the next expansion, and he may be a reoccurring villain after? Or is he gonna be like "lol gg, I'm back" within the next two?

    It's also possible his minions will have to do something to help him come back idk.

    Aurene eats magic so idk, maybe it is finally /gg

    Loved the ending btw!

  • VergilDeZaniah.3295VergilDeZaniah.3295 Member ✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    Most concerns on here are unfortunately correct... If my two cents matter, the Joko's arc was too short imho.

    We started building a great villain and I hoped we'd get more out of him than out of Balthazar, getting our bottom kicked one good time. The cinematic at the end of the episode was awesome, and made me think twice about the Commander's actions, but Joko's demise was a bit anti-climactic. I was like "... is that all?"

    However, I keep in mind that it just leads to our next enemy, which was heavily hinted by Balthazar and other evidence we found throughout LS3 and 4.

    So, while LS4E3 was a bit "low" in terms of replayability and story (that's, again, really subjective and a matter of personal opinion), the realization was quite good (Joko's behavior was marvelous), except for the end which fell a bit flat: Aurene is sick and nobody really bats an eye, no visible consequence of Joko's death, etc.

    But I assume it's for the greater good, and I can't wait to see our next villain ess ^^

  • Tiny Doom.4380Tiny Doom.4380 Member ✭✭✭

    Video games are like comics: no-one is ever dead, period. Doesn't matter if a dragon ate them or they were fired into the heart of a super-nova. Anyone can come back and anyone does, repeatedly. This is because, unlike prose fiction, comics and video games are produced by teams of people not individuals and if the I.P. is successful it long outlasts and outlives the original creators and writers. New people come on board, both writing and making the decisions about what gets written, and inevitably individuals want to have their time with characters they remember, feel they could do better, feel would have a resonance with the audience or, most importantly, feel will have commercial success.

    The current writing and production teams can make all the pronouncements they care to about whether Joko is or isn't coming back (ditto Scarlet or anyone else you care to name) but they can't either predict or bind the hands of anyone working on the I.P. next year, five years from now or ten. And video game I.P.s , like comics before them, clearly demonstrate the capacity to thrive and prosper not just for years but for decades.

    So, Joko is only as dead as any given writer or producer wants him to be. Personaly I can't stand the tedious, unfunny, jerk or the pre-adolescent humor that surrounds his every move. I only wish he was gone for good. But he'll be back. If not soon then later. That's why it's impossible to care about any of this stuff beyond the most superficial level - none of it has or can have any permanence due to the nature of the form. The best we can hope for are some good one-liners (Joko has yet to make me crack even a wry smile), a few jump-scares and the occasional momentary emotional frisson. The current episode didn't do too badly on that front.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daishi.6027 said:
    In GW2 we first met Joko in the domain of the lost, and I doubt it was his first trip there, so I bet he can come back...

    If he's there (again) it may take some time for him to remember who he was and then find some way to get out.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • DiogoSilva.7089DiogoSilva.7089 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree with the general opinion. Joko had great build-up, he had a great finale, but something was missing inbetween.

    I think Anet lost an opportunity to make a truly terrifying villain here. The final cutscene had us lose to him, have him spit some harsh truth about the commander's actions and effects in Tyria, and the possibility of spreading more lies and turning the world against us. It was a high moment for Joko, a truly terrifying one. Anet could have followed the Empire Strikes Back route: give us one (or more than one) full episode showing the villain winning and the situation getting bleaker (with additional side development for the commander's and aurene's relationship) before having Aurene eat him. He was this close to being terrifying, which made his sudden death very anti-climatic.

    Still much better than Lazarus' treatment, though. That villain was discarded as fast as an open world's side boss.

    I also think that GW2 would benefit by having a longer-lasting villain, to shake things up. Villains appear and disappear in a row, one after the other, but having someone more impactful and ever-lasting would be a nice change of pace.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cptaylor.2670 said:

    @Neil Pollner II.7602 said:
    Hi all.

    As the main writer for the A story of episode 3, and as a member of the team that broke this season’s arc/story, I can tell you that bringing the conflict with Joko to a deadly conclusion was not about sewing up lose threads. Or finding an antagonist we can just kill. We know that killing anyone iconic will be met with applause as well as boos. That’s testimony to having a rich world with rich characters and a wide fan base that is passionate and really connected to the experience. We expected that some will love how we orchestrated Joko’s demise and some will have issues with it. Both are valid. But please know, we don’t plan and do anything like this casually or for fleeting reasons. We pour over story and dig in deep and care immensely about the world and characters.

    So please trust me — episode 3’s developments and joko’s fate were not cavalier or whimsical dart throws.

    Thank you all for being so involved and for caring so much. That more than anything makes this job a pleasure!

    Are you allowed to confirm that we will get more on Joko's backstory later in the season? Like his origins and what-not? Probably not, but I figured it was worth a shot to ask. That was one of the things I was really looking forward to and kind of hoped we would get this episode as I knew he was reaching his conclusion. It would be really sad if we didn't at least get a vision or somekind of lore collectables somewhere that would tell us his full story. :(

    U might wonna talk to statues.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DiogoSilva.7089 said:
    I agree with the general opinion. Joko had great build-up, he had a great finale, but something was missing inbetween.

    I think Anet lost an opportunity to make a truly terrifying villain here. The final cutscene had us lose to him, have him spit some harsh truth about the commander's actions and effects in Tyria, and the possibility of spreading more lies and turning the world against us. It was a high moment for Joko, a truly terrifying one. Anet could have followed the Empire Strikes Back route: give us one (or more than one) full episode showing the villain winning and the situation getting bleaker (with additional side development for the commander's and aurene's relationship) before having Aurene eat him. He was this close to being terrifying, which made his sudden death very anti-climatic.

    Still much better than Lazarus' treatment, though. That villain was discarded as fast as an open world's side boss.

    I also think that GW2 would benefit by having a longer-lasting villain, to shake things up. Villains appear and disappear in a row, one after the other, but having someone more impactful and ever-lasting would be a nice change of pace.

    Imo this a problem the game has been dealing with for a while, outside of scarlet (and there being hardly visible) no other villian has changed the world. We havent seen anyone alter the land or break it you know leave a mark, a reminder. Imo Joko was a good chance to do that but meh, anet doesnt change the core world anymore feelsbad.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Neil Pollner II.7602 said:
    But please know, we don’t plan and do anything like this casually or for fleeting reasons.

    Seeing as it happened not so long ago as another character people have been asking for (Lazarus) was brought back only to be almost imediately removed (twice), that another important force (the human gods) were contacted again, only to be also written out of the story (and should i even mention Gleam?), allow me to be a bit doubtful about that. You do seem to do that a lot.

    And the point is, you didn't really have to do that in this case. If you thought that the screentime you could assign to Joko wasn't long enough to do anything more complex, you could have simply left him hanging, imprisoned in Domain of the Lost for a while longer. The whole plot of first 2 episodes could easily have been done by proxies, or be a some sort of aftermath resulting from Joko not being personally in charge, and some of his previous plans spinning out of control due to some overeager (or not so overeager) minions.

    "we need to kill him off in 3 chapters, because we must move on to the real story" seems to be a really bad ground for a narrative design.

    Notice, that i'm ticked off by this even though i wasn't ever really a fan of Joko.

    Imo gleam was done well, he was gone soon after we met him but he wasnt open about himself so the shard around the desert gave us more info that we would have recieved from him.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2018

    Would agree with all Randulf has said. Personally I haven't played gw1. I don't know anything about Joko, like Scarlet, I was starting to create a link with this character, loving him... and this end was for me a REAL STAB IN MY BACK. Argue it how you want, but for me Aurene nom nom nom is a solution of facility. The story wasn't that exceptional apart these very stunning cutscenes.

    Surely only a few person will agree with me on this point but, I would rather like that the mount, lady camilia and FTT turrets were never developed if It allows us to have a fully finished meta and map. Just see episode 2: the story + the map are awesome, for this episode, you actually told us that you reviewed your quality standards, and so, where is the quality in this episode?? Just like everything have been put in the mount or the cinematic...

    So here we are, a villain that I wanted to know more about was just wiped out like a kitten, we speak about a very dangerous disease and a lich king!! It would require as a minimum, 2-3 episodes, like episode 3 and 4... Take a look on the map: for containing scarab, we just have to squish squish....
    The only thing agree with, is joko monologue, we are the monster not him, he is a nice guy and I'm very sad for him, gotta regret him since now...

    To end this, one thing that would be great is creating a poll every-time you need to decide about great plot turn!! I'm sure they are more people disappointed with joko's end than happy with it. But what is for sure, I haven't the will anymore to continue the living story.
    Let's use a metaphor: During episode 1, I was a bird that started to learn how to fly, in the second episode, I flied perfectly and was very happy, but for this third episode, it's like a hunter shot in my wings and it made me crash.

    To sum-up: I need far more than a correct level in the next living story to bring me back, and a COHERENT story! Don't think about "aurene kill kralkatorrik". Thanks.
    Still haven't understood why you haven't continued like the previous episode side-events: Joko's invasions all around the world? Just instead of awakened you would put 3rd generations zombies, massive events where races fight to survive... guess i'm too imaginative.
    Joko was and will stay the main villain of this season for me, enough of dragons.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @PeterFries.1057 said:
    We originally planned some content where you were researching Joko's past in order to find his weakness, a way to defeat his immortality. That honestly wasn't anywhere near as compelling as the storyline we released. We've seen it demonstrated again and again that Joko rewrote Elonian history and embellished his omnipotence over the generations in order to subjugate his citizens. Why shouldn't the Commander (who has killed two Elder Dragons and a god) just assume the tales of this tyrant's immortality weren't as phony as any of his other lies?

    That is quite gutting to hear it was cut. That would helped improve the episode tenfold in my opinion

    It may not be absolutely cut
    Just as we’re still waiting for the Abaddon fractal, a ‘Joko’s Past’ fractal would be,
    In Joko’s own words ;
    But surely no mortal would be so monumentally STUPID as to not include these fractals

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @PeterFries.1057 said:
    We originally planned some content where you were researching Joko's past in order to find his weakness, a way to defeat his immortality. That honestly wasn't anywhere near as compelling as the storyline we released. We've seen it demonstrated again and again that Joko rewrote Elonian history and embellished his omnipotence over the generations in order to subjugate his citizens. Why shouldn't the Commander (who has killed two Elder Dragons and a god) just assume the tales of this tyrant's immortality weren't as phony as any of his other lies?

    That is quite gutting to hear it was cut. That would helped improve the episode tenfold in my opinion

    It may not be absolutely cut
    Just as we’re still waiting for the Abaddon fractal, a ‘Joko’s Past’ fractal would be,
    In Joko’s own words ;
    But surely no mortal would be so monumentally STUPID as to not include these fractals

    That would be quite cool. My only issue is that fractals benefit from variety and we've already had a slice of Joko and the Awakened told via fractals already. It has potential though.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Inc.4753Inc.4753 Member ✭✭

    I'm having some mixed feelings about the issue.

    One one hand, I really liked the way Joko was defeated. We already have a lot of villains of whom we have to find a particular weak spot, there was no need to introduce another one. Aurene eating him was a real surprise, and in the end makes sense. In one way I also feel that it is good that he was defeated immediately after his epic speech. If he would have walked away we would again be back at the 'find the weakness' storyline.

    That said, I think my main problem with the way Joko was handled is the long build-up vs. the short actual dealing with Joko. We have all the history from GW1 and in The Movement of the World the entire part about Elona was about Joko. The Awakened and Joko were a significant part of Path of Fire. LW S4E1 felt like even more build-up, introducing the threat of the Scarab Plague. Only in the last two episodes were we dealing with Joko and his threat directly, and now it is already over. I know it is not fair, but to me it feels like several years of build up where Joko was portrayed as a formidable villain was now cut short in a few hours in which we barely did more than the equivalent of smashing a bug. Find it, kill it, done. As pointed out by many, after the speech it would have been amazing if he just walked away, leaving us to wonder why he let us alive and what his motivations and goals are.

    Which is another thing that feels disappointing. I felt that Joko was an adversary that we could have a lot of interaction with, one that was a lot more present. The Elder Dragons are too powerful to actually have a lot of interaction with, they will most likely remain restricted to final bossfights and a rare cameo. Also, they actually don't feel like a constantly present threat. Balthazar, and any other on his level, was also too powerful. He could toy with us several times, before we eventually defeated him with a lot of help and a magical artifact. But Joko, Joko was more on our level. Powerful, yes, but not unbeatable. Joko was an adversary that could play the long game, no need to rush when you are immortal. No need to actively oppose the Elder Dragons when you can wait until they go back to sleep and then conquer the world for the next 10.000 years. He could have been the more present adversary, a constant threat that was unpredictable enough to remain surprising for a long time. I don't think we have a lot of villains left who could fill that role, while it is something I would love to see.

  • @Palador.2170 said:
    Evon Gnashblade.

    Slow down there, buddy. Don't be getting harsh on the true hero of Lion's Arch. Just because what's-her-name stole one election...

    Back to the original topic, the only thing I found lacking in the final scene was that it wasn't obvious enough that Joko had won. Having played through it more than once, it becomes more obvious, but I think a lot of people completely missed it the first time through. Joko has Braham and the commander frozen, but the characters are also immobile because we're in a cutscene. I think the mechanics of the cutscene took away a lot of the impact of the moment. Joko is draining life energy from his minions, healing himself, getting stronger with every moment and there's absolutely nothing Braham or the commander can do about it because Joko has them trapped. Game over, man. Joko wins.

    In no particular order:
    * Joko's speech was pure gold. In that moment, Joko WAS the hero and the commander was the idiot who's been pushing Tyria to the brink of destruction.
    * Taimi completely losing her Asuran detachment (and almost her lunch) was adorable. Now stop it. You can't keep making grown men sqeee every time Taimi shows up.
    * Freakin' Canach. 20 pounds of cool in a 5 pound bag. I still think he should be pimped out in an all black version of the Fancy Winter Outfit though.
    * E-P-I-D-E-M-I-C Ka-BRAHAM! I'm still giggling about that.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @cptaylor.2670 said:

    @Neil Pollner II.7602 said:
    Hi all.

    As the main writer for the A story of episode 3, and as a member of the team that broke this season’s arc/story, I can tell you that bringing the conflict with Joko to a deadly conclusion was not about sewing up lose threads. Or finding an antagonist we can just kill. We know that killing anyone iconic will be met with applause as well as boos. That’s testimony to having a rich world with rich characters and a wide fan base that is passionate and really connected to the experience. We expected that some will love how we orchestrated Joko’s demise and some will have issues with it. Both are valid. But please know, we don’t plan and do anything like this casually or for fleeting reasons. We pour over story and dig in deep and care immensely about the world and characters.

    So please trust me — episode 3’s developments and joko’s fate were not cavalier or whimsical dart throws.

    Thank you all for being so involved and for caring so much. That more than anything makes this job a pleasure!

    Are you allowed to confirm that we will get more on Joko's backstory later in the season? Like his origins and what-not? Probably not, but I figured it was worth a shot to ask. That was one of the things I was really looking forward to and kind of hoped we would get this episode as I knew he was reaching his conclusion. It would be really sad if we didn't at least get a vision or somekind of lore collectables somewhere that would tell us his full story. :(

    U might wonna talk to statues.

    You mean the one where he talks about creating the gods and being born with the universe or whatever? No. I’ve already heard that. The other statues in Kourna or just like the intercom system in Vabbi.

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