@saerni.2584 said:
Disappointing. As a practical matter it was likely the only option from a business perspective.
But, I’m sad to see a woman in game development brought down by cries of misandry and reverse-racism. It’s not a good look to wear. It’s another Gamer-gate.
Ever heard of who cares that someone is a guy or a girl if they do their jobe it is fine. who cares if someone is a girl of boy it is the person that matters not the race gender or what ever. If a person is not nice it doesn't matter that the person is. It is called looking at the person not there race gender or what ever.
Representation matters. And the number of posts that were explicitly and implicitly sexist were pretty high. I’m not saying she shouldn’t have lost her job given the uproar. I’m saying that in the rush to judgment by the community context was lost and a number of people called for her head using language that originated in the alt-right.
No, not everyone supporting her firing is alt right. That’s not the point. The point is that alt right discourse is being normalized. As a minority in some contexts this is incredibly discouraging to me. How should I respond to that?
When the mob wins it wants more. Who will it come for next?
Here it goes. You can't see that it is not alt right to think that actions have consequences. If it was a male dev he was fire 10 times over. It is really normal for a business to fire people that attack their custemors. That you don't see it often on the left is, because you attack each other always no one is save and the are allowed to the most horrable things and get a way with it on the left. That is not how the real world works. If you kitten up like that you will get fired. It is nothing to od with alt right or what ever.
It's sad that it had to come to this, but I 100% agree with Anet's stance. Twitter is NOT some kind of private blog. It's a public forum. If you start talking about the popular video game you work on, then you should kitten well expect that people will respond and try to have a discussion with you about it. If you don't want to have a discussion, then perhaps you need to consider making your post private. Whether you are "on the clock" or not, your behavior in a public setting reflects upon the company you work for, especially if you are interacting with customers of said company. Her treatment of customers was simply not acceptable.
@Mike O Brien.4613 said:
Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.
I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.
Mo
Can I give a thumbs down for yet another company that encourages employees to be open and honest and then punishes them for it? Send her to some training, kitten, but this basically blacklists her forever and ever. Good job proving her point, I guess.
Truthfully, if she can learn from what happened here and be able to honestly tell an interviewer that she messed up and has realized she was wrong, I think she'll bounce back. She worked at Arenanet; regardless of individual gripes people may have, this is a huge company with one of the top rated AAA MMOs on the market. The experience and knowledge she gained there will be valuable for future employers. If I got her at the interview table, and she could look me in the eye and say "Yea, I screwed up. I was wrong, I see that now", I'd hire her in a heartbeat.
Experience is valuable. Being a loose cannon and a danger to the corporate image devalues that experience, so if that is corrected then she'll be OK.
@Xenash.1245 said:
I also agree that the termination of Peter Fries was interesting to say the least from what we currently and probably ever will know.
But I just felt like I had to say that if you want to convince members of this community about something wrong of their actions, that it might be best to frame it in a more tasteful manner. Saying that this incident has made you feel unsafe from being a minority in many ways isn't going to sit well with the players as it comes across as if many are needlessly hostile towards those of a different race/gender/etc. when they sincerely aren't. If anything this community as a whole is one of the most friendliest and more welcoming communities that I've seen out there when compared to almost every other online gaming environment, I'd even go so far to say that you're bound to find more unfriendly people on something like Hello Kitty Online compared to Guild Wars 2.
WvW players are a different story though, but they have a reason to be really salty most of the time.
oh trust me, ive played other games! while its great that this one has been the most welcoming ive seen in a long time, there is still the issue of those who are generally hateful to minorities. the gw2 community isnt free of them either and its something i can sadly attest to having played this game for a few years now. i am not saying this in any hostility, its simply the sad reality of gaming communities and the pushback experienced by minorities in them. even just looking at the subreddit has been super uncomfortable today, people decrying that social justice is ruining their game and they wont play it anymore when really, this issue is just about JP's sour behavior and not any sort of feminist agenda anet was pushing
I believe the social justice bit came about when people started digging around through Jessica's twitter history and came across some rather unsavory things, and to be fair I couldn't even say they were totally wrong after seeing what she said about the passing of total biscuit. And if it helps at all I don't believe anyone is really trying to focus on any certain race or gender when they make rather brash statements about social justice type matters but rather just the mentalities they see in others. It might seem and might even be true enough to some extent that some people might paint some women as being an kitten(or whatever really) but I believe that's only because the most notable people that have come from that mindset have just simply been women.
When it comes to any push back towards minorities and such, I truly believe the people that would have such a mentality are just simply in the minority. There's some people out there that prefer the company of certain types of people more so then others, the most notable that I've seen over the years being the awkward teenagers that don't quite know how to interact with the opposite sex quite yet.
The more I think about this, the more I think I might be a bit biased in this affair since I personally enjoy the company of everyone until I've given a reason not to. Sorry if this went a bit off course in any way, I think my tired mind might be rambling a bit now.
@Word Eater.6541 said:
Can I give a thumbs down for yet another company that encourages employees to be open and honest and then punishes them for it? Send her to some training, kitten, but this basically blacklists her forever and ever. Good job proving her point, I guess.
She was not punished for being "open and honest". She was punished for insulting the community.
Can I give a thumbs down for yet another company that encourages employees to be open and honest and then punishes them for it? Send her to some training, kitten, but this basically blacklists her forever and ever. Good job proving her point, I guess.
Don't be wrong about the point. One thing is being open and honest, and a different thing is acting disrespectfully when you get negative reviews of your job. Jessica Price acted wrongly with her replies when being criticised, taking it to the wrong side when pretending the critics were sexist attacks 'cos she's a woman. No. She wasn't criticised 'cos her gender, but 'cos there was people who disagreed with her job. It's very, very different.
About Peter Fries... I don't understand him. It was obvious how huge failure commited JP... and still, her had to talk, and using similar terms. Honestly, one should think before entering in a discussion like this.
And about what some people is mentioning. AMAs and devs' communication shouldn't be affected at all 'cos this happened. On the oppoiste side, this should show how not to react when being criticised. There is always the chance to discuss what and why, but keeping the right manners.
@Dengar.1785 said:
I... Feel bad for Peter Fries. Did he deserve some sort of disciplinary measure? Sure. Did he deserve the same thing as Jessica Price? I don't think so.
For that matter, my mind is in all sorts of places about the firing. I understand this was a really hard decision to make, and I accept that being let go is a logical consequence to JP's behavior. Still, something about this doesn't feel quite right.
Peter had been there far longer than Jessica. He's a GW 2 vet and knows better. He knew the importance and consequence of his actions and he unfortunately made the wrong one. He could have tried to calm the conversation or steer it. Instead he just sided with JP's responses and consistently, over several posts, defended her responses. He should have helped Jessica by encouraging her to let it go and they would both still have their positions. In that way, he is just as responsible as JP and therefore deserved the same result.
Really impressed by the way MO handled this situation. That kind of hate towards the community was unacceptable. She needed to be fired. Also, it provides a lesson to others. Do not blindly support someone who is causing hate. You may believe you are defending a co-worker, but what you really are doing is defending hate. You deserve the same punishment.
Also I hope the keyboard warriors in the game community can show some respect to the rest of the Anet employees. The game is coming up on 6 years and still going strong. They have a great product and are working to make it even better.
@Tolmos.8395 said:
Truthfully, if she can learn from what happened here and be able to honestly tell an interviewer that she messed up and has realized she was wrong, I think she'll bounce back.
I doubt that will happen, but there's another option for her: to be hired by someone who shares her beliefs, and who thinks the fact she was fired is one more sign of the damage the patriarchy fueled by cis privileged white men does to the world. You can already see people with a similar mindset in this topic, it's not unlikely that the former dev will find someone like that to hire her.
Which is a pity, because then nothing will be learned from this whole thing.
"Tomorrow my master chokes on his own whip!" - Lore of Skaen, PoE
@Mike O Brien.4613 said:
Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.
I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.
Mo
Can I give a thumbs down for yet another company that encourages employees to be open and honest and then punishes them for it? Send her to some training, kitten, but this basically blacklists her forever and ever. Good job proving her point, I guess.
Open and honest? Have you read the entire thing? JP played the feminist card after an Anet Partner ( also customer ) responded to her big post. And instead of apologizing called him a rando kitten. You don't insult customers where everyone can see it. This whole thing went big and was the worst PR disaster in Anets history and the only way to survive this PR disaster was the instant termination of both employees
Being open and honest doesn't mean insulting and attacking your customers and community. Doing that can even kill the company and leave even more people without a job.
@Mike O Brien.4613 said:
Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.
I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.
Oh so there's MORE of these kinds of people in Anet's employment. Starting to think the company of full of them.
You mean kitten types?
please give me a break, they are and have always been located in seattle. You can easily follow the entire team on social media, it is really hard to pretend to say you don't know who and what they are and believe in. They are allowed their personal beliefs, and that should not matter and has no place in a fantasy game.
There is a gigantic and massive difference between personal beliefs and attacking fans in a game that has a long standing tradition of always wanting the entire community to always give feedback, criticism, and interaction, both in game and out. The community has members that have added just as much to the game as actual Anet employees, because that is what Anet has wanted and that is the community they have cultivated from the very beginning of GW1. Has zero to do with beliefs and everything to do with actions.
it is difference that you are left lening or s J W. Left is not bad if you don't go extrem. S J W are extrem. I respect everyone's opinion if they stay nice to each other. I look at how someone is not at there idea's, but S J W do only look at the idea's gender and so on.
You can be pure evil in real life, but if you work for a company, believe in that company, and put that company's ideals first you can be a great employee. Politics should have nothing to do with it, and the fact Anet was able to separate this persons politics from their actions is a wonderful thing and a huge win for them. You cannot just group any everyone into any group, the real world never ever works that way. This situation is about actions, not politics.
@Dengar.1785 said:
I... Feel bad for Peter Fries. Did he deserve some sort of disciplinary measure? Sure. Did he deserve the same thing as Jessica Price? I don't think so.
For that matter, my mind is in all sorts of places about the firing. I understand this was a really hard decision to make, and I accept that being let go is a logical consequence to JP's behavior. Still, something about this doesn't feel quite right.
Peter had been there far longer than Jessica. He's a GW 2 vet and knows better. He knew the importance and consequence of his actions and he unfortunately made the wrong one. He could have tried to calm the conversation or steer it. Instead he just sided with JP's responses and consistently, over several posts, defended her responses. He should have helped Jessica by encouraging her to let it go and they would both still have their positions. In that way, he is just as responsible as JP and therefore deserved the same result.
You know, I can't say you're wrong here. Still, if we talk feelings, it just doesn't really feel right. It's hard to explain.
Anyway, I think there are people on both sides of the argument who are having a bit of a misunderstanding.
This isn't about JP's twitter past. This is about JP's twitter present. She engaged with an important member of the community as well as other community members, and was very rude to them. This isn't about sexism or racism or kitten or alt right or whatever. Her views aren't what matters. What matters is she made the mistake of displaying unacceptable behavior towards the people who pay her bills.
@Mike O Brien.4613 said:
Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.
I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.
Mo
Sad person looses job over a tweet... I just wonder how many people here would still have their jobs if that standard was applied to themselves.
I work for one of the big companies in tech. But you don't see that in my forum signature, twitter profile or anywhere else.
She had "Arenanet Story Developer" on her twitter profile and was constantly talking about her work on it. Which is fine, unless you also use it to vent your personal views and rant against people.
Work profiles and personal profiles should not mix.
@Mike O Brien.4613 said:
Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.
I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.
Mo
I only just found out about this whole mess today, and action has already been taken. Thank you, Mr O Brien, for taking this seriously and addressing it so quickly.
As for how they were punished? Well, I can't really say much about that. There's lots of twitter stuff I've not read yet, some of it isn't even there any more. And even if I knew all of that, that still doesn't tell me what was going on behind the closed doors of ANet itself. Were they both model employees? Were they both on the verge of being terminated anyway? I don't know. Not knowing, I'll have to trust in the judgement of those that did know, and the call they made.
So, thank you again for taking this seriously and dealing with it in a prompt manner. I still feel uneasy about it all, but much less so now than I did when I first started to hear of it.
and lastly i do not agree with the toxicity i am seeing from the community as well, the sheer viciousness im seeing from other players here is frankly appalling, as if this was some sort of gleeful anti-feminist witch hunt for them rather than dealing with one problematic employee. as someone who is a minority in many ways including race and gender, it makes me feel unsafe as a player of this game even more so than arenanet's decision to let go of JP and PF in response to JP's actions
^ this bit. this right here. i'm lookin at the responses on this thread alone, and it's kinda making me think maybe this is one punk venue that ain't so punk no more. and maybe i should take my marginalized self out the door and like. find other pastures. (im mixing metaphors, but i hope it makes still sense.)
@Mike O Brien.4613 said:
Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.
I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.
Mo
Sad person looses job over a tweet... I just wonder how many people here would still have their jobs if that standard was applied to themselves.
To my knowledge that standard is being applied to a great number of people these days when they are employed.. specially those who's social media's are affiliated or directly linked to the companies they work for.. I believe it's called a Social media clause.
Acting poorly online specially to those whom you've a professional connection to heavily damages your reputation and also makes your employer look very bad by association.
Now don't get me wrong.. I am no fan of this concept either, I am completely for free speech regardless of how badly some people abuse it.. but this is a legitimate thing that does exist and I would strongly advise that everyone keep their home and work lives completely seperate, especially on their private social media accounts.
Thank you for being quick to take decisive action, Anet. It probably wasn't an easy decision, but I'm glad to see that you're willing to stick up for you players like this. I wish this could have been resolved without people having to leave the company (I appreciated Jessica's openness during the recent AMA), but I understand that sometimes there isn't a perfect solution.
That said, please don't be discouraged from communicating with us in the future. I'm sure that most of the community understands this was an extreme outlier based largely on one person's repeated poor behavior, not the company's.
@LucianDK.8615 said:
I do not defend her actions, but its the sheer disgusting behavior of the community that I stand against. Theres absolutely nothing to be proud of here, even if she deserved it.
There ya go.. your agreeing with many others in this post, this community who also feel she deserved it. No one said anything about being proud of the actions taken, but good riddance to a bad egg is imo quite apt.
Why do you feel that a community voicing their absolute disdain for JP over her inexcusable bad mouthing of players, disgusting behaviour???..
At the end of the day people can disagree on pretty much anything, but people like JP prefer to take disagreement to a whole different level.
She chose to use a personal account and opened the floor for critique, which she handled terabad.. ..when challenged with opposing views or offered opinion she played to form and went off on one ... it was JP that was demonstrating quite clearly what" utterly disgusting behaviour" looks like imo.
As for PF.. I think it wouldn't do any harm for ANET to revisit this and maybe re-consider their action unless of course there are other things that we don't know about that swung the pendulum the way it did.
Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!
Also I feel a lot of people here havent worked at a big company before. This is standard procedure.
Anet will probably rework their social media rules after this and they totally should.
Ive seen other people at Microsoft, JP Morgans and other companies being fired for way way WAY less.
@Mike O Brien.4613 said:
Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.
I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.
Mo
Sad person looses job over a tweet... I just wonder how many people here would still have their jobs if that standard was applied to themselves.
I work for one of the big companies in tech. But you don't see that in my forum signature, twitter profile or anywhere else.
She had "Arenanet Story Developer" on her twitter profile and was constantly talking about her work on it. Which is fine, unless you also use it to vent your personal views and rant against people.
Work profiles and personal profiles should not mix.
This is so true. I don't get why people have to show who they work for, unless part of their work description is being on social media. I'm on a bunch of different social media, good luck figuring out where I work. This should be ingrained at every corporate orientation at every company world wide.
@Dengar.1785 said:
I... Feel bad for Peter Fries. Did he deserve some sort of disciplinary measure? Sure. Did he deserve the same thing as Jessica Price? I don't think so.
For that matter, my mind is in all sorts of places about the firing. I understand this was a really hard decision to make, and I accept that being let go is a logical consequence to JP's behavior. Still, something about this doesn't feel quite right.
Consequences of white knighting.
If you ever have to white knight, ask if its worth it in the end. Save your kid? Worth it. Defend your dignity? If you value pride or self esteem more. Win an internet shouting match? Never.
@Nabuko Darayon.9645 said:
I will be closely watching the aftermath of this decision MO.
If ANet decides to turn their company into a more totalitarian way to accommodate the new rising spirit in the world I will be leaving this game as well.
By aftermath, I mean you just created a new precedent on how to get a dev fired so start expecting major provocations by trolls towards your devs that are active on twitter. And trust me they will abuse it.
I just have to say this is the dumbest thing I've ever read, the precedent was set over a decade ago, Anet encourages their community to interact with them at every turn, in every way, on every platform, all the time. If you label your social media account with the fact you work at Anet, Anet fans will follow you and interact with you. If you insult and belittle fans for doing what ANet has literally always asked of its community, you'll be punished. Not sure why any of this is complicated in any manner.
@Mike O Brien.4613 said:
Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.
I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.
Mo
Thank you, I am not going to name the employees in question but thank you so much for valuing us. As a human being, I know all to well that it sucks to not have a job and a steady income to make ends meet, but at the same time it's not acceptable to be rude to others and with things now a days. It's a wonderful sight to see a company actually favor and treasure their customers and community rather then...You know.
Wish some companies would follow the example you have set, Mike. I won't name said companies but just know this, We appreciate the justice you have served and grateful that you actually care for us, the community as a whole. From the bottom of my heart, Thank you and you have my respect. I always have recommend Guild Wars 2 to friends who never played it, and I shall continue to do so. Especially after this, this is a good example for all business's to follow!
@LucianDK.8615 said:
I do not defend her actions, but its the sheer disgusting behavior of the community that I stand against. Theres absolutely nothing to be proud of here, even if she deserved it.
There ya go.. your agreeing with many others in this post, this community who also feel she deserved it. No one said anything about being proud of the actions taken, but good riddance to a bad egg is imo quite apt.
Why do you feel that a community voicing their absolute disdain for JP over her inexcusable bad mouthing of players, disgusting behaviour???..
At the end of the day people can disagree on pretty much anything, but people like JP prefer to take disagreement to a whole different level.
She chose to use a personal account and opened the floor for critique, which she handled terabad.. ..when challenged with opposing views or offered opinion she played to form and went off on one ... it was JP that was demonstrating quite clearly what" utterly disgusting behaviour" looks like imo.
As for PF.. I think it wouldn't do any harm for ANET to revisit this and maybe re-consider their action unless of course there are other things that we don't know about that swung the pendulum the way it did.
The community went way over the rails in witch hunting and baying for blood. That is what i find utterly deplorable. Plenty of angsty edgelord coments that is disgusting to read.
@Mike O Brien.4613 said:
Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.
I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.
Mo
Sad person looses job over a tweet... I just wonder how many people here would still have their jobs if that standard was applied to themselves.
Words and actions outside of the context of your job do matter in real life -- this is evident in many ways.
The trick is to keep your "less than pleasant" words and actions in the private sphere, not a public venue like Twitter. Her account was visible to everyone, and directly tied her with ArenaNet. It was the equivalent of shouting racist ideologies in a crowded street. Somebody's likely going to notice and get you in trouble.
Should we take joy or glee in them getting fired? Absolutely not, I wish that on nobody. But in this case, it's not surprising and is one of the potentially valid responses to this incident.
We want to make it clear that we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees (or other forum members), that attempt to rehash the matter ad infinitum, or that in any way are a breach of the Forums Code of Conduct. We have a policy that supports valid, constructive posts, and we are dedicated to keeping the tone of the forums reasonable and productive. Please post with wisdom and thoughtfulness.
Thank you.
Gaile Gray
Communications Manager: ArenaNet
Fansite & Guild Relations; In-Game Events; Community Showcase Live
A very unexpected decision, but a decisive one that puts the community first. Thank you for making hard decisions Mo
I design medical software for a living, a bit different from narrative design, but I believe design principles apply across the board. One must be married to the customer's problems. If I ever told a hospital that I don't need their feedback because they haven't ever designed medical software before I would look like an utter fool. The customer has more insight into what their needs are than anyone else, whether those needs are more diverse dialogue options or a way to run numbers from their databases without having to deal with SQL. My job is to figure out a solution that works for the broadest swath of customers and I can only do that by speaking with those customers, iterating on prototypes, and usability testing. You could of course do iterative narratives to see what, out of a sample size makes people the most satisfied, but I'm sure that gets super weird and it could potentially ignore whatever ANet's vision for the story is.
I don't have my place of work posted in my social media feed, nor would I ever engage my customers outside of work, but the amount of times I deal with complaints meant for another development team, criticism about how a workflow isn't what a certain customer does, or just inane unrelated things is basically every time I meet with a customer.
I don't know what narrative design is like, and I'm no story teller, but empathy is a key ingredient in being a good designer. Technical stuff doesn't matter if you can't hear what your customer's needs are. You're one part customer service and one part developer as near as I can tell.
@LucianDK.8615 said:
I do not defend her actions, but its the sheer disgusting behavior of the community that I stand against. Theres absolutely nothing to be proud of here, even if she deserved it.
There ya go.. your agreeing with many others in this post, this community who also feel she deserved it. No one said anything about being proud of the actions taken, but good riddance to a bad egg is imo quite apt.
Why do you feel that a community voicing their absolute disdain for JP over her inexcusable bad mouthing of players, disgusting behaviour???..
At the end of the day people can disagree on pretty much anything, but people like JP prefer to take disagreement to a whole different level.
She chose to use a personal account and opened the floor for critique, which she handled terabad.. ..when challenged with opposing views or offered opinion she played to form and went off on one ... it was JP that was demonstrating quite clearly what" utterly disgusting behaviour" looks like imo.
As for PF.. I think it wouldn't do any harm for ANET to revisit this and maybe re-consider their action unless of course there are other things that we don't know about that swung the pendulum the way it did.
The community went way over the rails in witch hunting and baying for blood. That is what i find utterly deplorable. Plenty of angsty edgelord coments that is disgusting to read.
I've seen people express a little too much glee over her being let go, but I don't understand what you mean by witch hunt. Who's burning innocent people at the stake?
@ReV.6097 said:
If only Disney and Lucas Film had ANets guts and foresight.
Disney did in one occasion, unfortunately Disney being Disney the matter I'm referring to cost a whole studio to loose their jobs and a game to be shutdown prematurely RIP Marvel Heroes.
Just wanted to come on to say I'm happy for the very swift and quick action to remove such toxicity from a work environment and help the playerbase. I'll get Path of Fire for that!
While I believe many applaud Anet's movement, I feel that firing Fries might be overboard. I mean, the only crime he kinda did was to White Knight. Maybe a warning would have suffice. I disagree with what he did but I still choked up when I heard that he is gone as well..
@Oneiroid.9245 said:
I have to say I do not agree with the firing of Peter Fries and I feel anet has caved TOO far to community demands, as what Peter did didn't warrant such a severe reaction. He has been a long-standing employee at your company who has been nothing but nice and may have made a singular foolish choice. Surely he may have needed to be reprimanded but to go so far as to fire him is extremely rash and giving in to the 'bandwagon' of anger, and in my eyes is shameful. I'm not going to touch the topic of Jessica Price-- for Peter alone, I feel this was too severe and I feel you did not make the right decision in his case. This whole incident is already such a disaster on BOTH sides of the topic and this just makes things worse. I suppose if this is anet's choice, it cannot be undone, but to any employees reading this who have had a say in this manner, I hope that in the future you consider these things way more carefully as whatever crowd was crying for Peter to be fired really did not actually represent your whole community and was merely the loudest, not the most rational. There were better and less extreme solutions for his behavior.
Listen, none of us know the full details of what happened behind the scenes. You're putting forth some assumptions about Anet's decision. For all we know, he could've decided to leave out of his own will or he could've stood by his first position and thus encountered a disagreement with the bosses. We just don't know that stuff. Maybe they had a talk with Jessica as well and this wasn't the first course of action either. I'm more inclined to believe, especially in Peter's case, that a senior employee like him doesn't get the boot instantly like that for an offense like his.
As for the general subject, it's not something I would rejoice to see someone lose their job but the actions taken were out of bounds (quite extreme attitude from the individual herself) and disciplinary actions were in order so I am glad to see Anet is not afraid to act when their employees cross the line.
Twitter is a public social media and when you're discussing your work, presenting yourself as an employee of a company, etc. you do have to be careful with your words and no matter how loud you shout that it's your personal social media account... you've simply crossed the line. If you believe your account to be your private matter and not regard your employer, then make your account actually private. 2 birds 1 stone. No more engagement in criticism you cannot handle and no harm done to your career. I hope the lesson is taken if not now, later down the road. I prefer redemption stories.
Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course).
The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can.
Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out.
Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!
While I do dislike people loosing jobs over, well, speech. And It seems to me that this is the best decision ANet could have come to. I'll come back to the game after a while because of this. And if I manage to get some spare cash, ANet, it all yours. Saved some money avoiding a lot of other entertainment anyway. I'm (not)looking at you Star Wars.
@LucianDK.8615 said:
I do not defend her actions, but its the sheer disgusting behavior of the community that I stand against. Theres absolutely nothing to be proud of here, even if she deserved it.
There ya go.. your agreeing with many others in this post, this community who also feel she deserved it. No one said anything about being proud of the actions taken, but good riddance to a bad egg is imo quite apt.
Why do you feel that a community voicing their absolute disdain for JP over her inexcusable bad mouthing of players, disgusting behaviour???..
At the end of the day people can disagree on pretty much anything, but people like JP prefer to take disagreement to a whole different level.
She chose to use a personal account and opened the floor for critique, which she handled terabad.. ..when challenged with opposing views or offered opinion she played to form and went off on one ... it was JP that was demonstrating quite clearly what" utterly disgusting behaviour" looks like imo.
As for PF.. I think it wouldn't do any harm for ANET to revisit this and maybe re-consider their action unless of course there are other things that we don't know about that swung the pendulum the way it did.
The community went way over the rails in witch hunting and baying for blood. That is what i find utterly deplorable. Plenty of angsty edgelord coments that is disgusting to read.
I'm sorry but that is just false. The community reacted exactly like it should have. An employee of Anet attacked a community member that has added a ton for absolutely no reason. Anet has always asked the entire community to opine,interact, criticise, discuss on every platform, everywhere, all the time, in game and out. You cannot tell a community you will always be open to them then allow an employee to insult and degrade.
@Zaklex.6308 said:
Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course).
The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can.
Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out.
Whether the media is personal or public becomes rather irrelevant when the people you're mistreating are the people who buy and promote your company's product.
@Mike O Brien.4613 said:
Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.
I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.
@Zaklex.6308 said:
Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course).
The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can.
Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out.
Do u even realize what the problem was about ? because from what u've just wrote, it seems like u have no idea. She publicly bashed a CUSTOMER of the company she works for while talking about a topic regarding this game, she disregarded the feedback of the customer, something a developer should never do, because her job is to create a product that people will want to buy, what she did showed that she doesn't give a kitten about your/mine or any other customer's feedback, it doesn't matter if she did that in her PERSONAL time, off work, because the topic involved her job she was at that moment representing the company.
We want to make it clear that we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees (or other forum members), that attempt to rehash the matter ad infinitum, or that in any way are a breach of the Forums Code of Conduct. We have a policy that supports valid, constructive posts, and we are dedicated to keeping the tone of the forums reasonable and productive. Please post with wisdom and thoughtfulness.
@LucianDK.8615 said:
I do not defend her actions, but its the sheer disgusting behavior of the community that I stand against. Theres absolutely nothing to be proud of here, even if she deserved it.
There ya go.. your agreeing with many others in this post, this community who also feel she deserved it. No one said anything about being proud of the actions taken, but good riddance to a bad egg is imo quite apt.
Why do you feel that a community voicing their absolute disdain for JP over her inexcusable bad mouthing of players, disgusting behaviour???..
At the end of the day people can disagree on pretty much anything, but people like JP prefer to take disagreement to a whole different level.
She chose to use a personal account and opened the floor for critique, which she handled terabad.. ..when challenged with opposing views or offered opinion she played to form and went off on one ... it was JP that was demonstrating quite clearly what" utterly disgusting behaviour" looks like imo.
As for PF.. I think it wouldn't do any harm for ANET to revisit this and maybe re-consider their action unless of course there are other things that we don't know about that swung the pendulum the way it did.
The community went way over the rails in witch hunting and baying for blood. That is what i find utterly deplorable. Plenty of angsty edgelord coments that is disgusting to read.
I'm sorry but that is just false. The community reacted exactly like it should have. An employee of Anet attacked a community member that has added a ton for absolutely no reason. Anet has always asked the entire community to opine,interact, criticise, discuss on every platform, everywhere, all the time, in game and out. You cannot tell a community you will always be open to them then allow an employee to insult and degrade.
Call it what you want, nothing was presented as reasonable discourse with a very large amount of spammed threads to clog the forum. Plenty of posters declared for throwing anet under the bus and comming up with all sorts of ridiculous things such as asking if they were racist or had a whole culture of it. Simply unable to wait for a response from Anet on the matter.
@Zaklex.6308 said:
Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course).
The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can.
Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out.
If the person, on their own time and personal social media accounts, is actively promoting themself as a company representative then they have decided to erase the line between personal and professional.
@LucianDK.8615 said:
I do not defend her actions, but its the sheer disgusting behavior of the community that I stand against. Theres absolutely nothing to be proud of here, even if she deserved it.
There ya go.. your agreeing with many others in this post, this community who also feel she deserved it. No one said anything about being proud of the actions taken, but good riddance to a bad egg is imo quite apt.
Why do you feel that a community voicing their absolute disdain for JP over her inexcusable bad mouthing of players, disgusting behaviour???..
At the end of the day people can disagree on pretty much anything, but people like JP prefer to take disagreement to a whole different level.
She chose to use a personal account and opened the floor for critique, which she handled terabad.. ..when challenged with opposing views or offered opinion she played to form and went off on one ... it was JP that was demonstrating quite clearly what" utterly disgusting behaviour" looks like imo.
As for PF.. I think it wouldn't do any harm for ANET to revisit this and maybe re-consider their action unless of course there are other things that we don't know about that swung the pendulum the way it did.
The community went way over the rails in witch hunting and baying for blood. That is what i find utterly deplorable. Plenty of angsty edgelord coments that is disgusting to read.
I'm sorry but that is just false. The community reacted exactly like it should have. An employee of Anet attacked a community member that has added a ton for absolutely no reason. Anet has always asked the entire community to opine,interact, criticise, discuss on every platform, everywhere, all the time, in game and out. You cannot tell a community you will always be open to them then allow an employee to insult and degrade.
Call it what you want, nothing was presented as reasonable discourse with a very large amount of spammed threads to clog the forum. Plenty of posters declared for throwing anet under the bus and comming up with all sorts of ridiculous things such as asking if they were racist or had a whole culture of it. Simply unable to wait for a response from Anet on the matter.
I do not see how this is relevant to the matter at hand. The important part here is her unacceptable behavior towards the community that keeps this game running. This, and ONLY this, is the reason she was let go. Mob rules or witch hunts have nothing to do with this.
@Mike O Brien.4613 said:
Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.
I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.
Uh huh just someone stirring the pot...AGAIN. This was back in March anyway and it seems everyone has been happily playing the game since then. Has it affected your personal game play in any way since then? NO.........ignore the posting and move on.
3 months is hardly a long time ago. If it were 3 years ago I might be able to let it slide. But 3 months? no way.
First time i've even seen that.. wow... just wow.
What that part leaves out is the context as to who he was talking to. He was replying to a guy attacking Anet's female devs for being, well, female devs.
Yes that could very well be the case, I can't personally say for sure though since I have not seen that information, and that's exactly why I could neither defend or condone Peter's firing either.
Bandwagons are not a good thing to jump on.. specially when you don't have access to the whole picture which is why I simply said.. wow... just wow.
Comments
Here it goes. You can't see that it is not alt right to think that actions have consequences. If it was a male dev he was fire 10 times over. It is really normal for a business to fire people that attack their custemors. That you don't see it often on the left is, because you attack each other always no one is save and the are allowed to the most horrable things and get a way with it on the left. That is not how the real world works. If you kitten up like that you will get fired. It is nothing to od with alt right or what ever.
Too late now. She's fired and I bet she's not coming back.
It's sad that it had to come to this, but I 100% agree with Anet's stance. Twitter is NOT some kind of private blog. It's a public forum. If you start talking about the popular video game you work on, then you should kitten well expect that people will respond and try to have a discussion with you about it. If you don't want to have a discussion, then perhaps you need to consider making your post private. Whether you are "on the clock" or not, your behavior in a public setting reflects upon the company you work for, especially if you are interacting with customers of said company. Her treatment of customers was simply not acceptable.
Truthfully, if she can learn from what happened here and be able to honestly tell an interviewer that she messed up and has realized she was wrong, I think she'll bounce back. She worked at Arenanet; regardless of individual gripes people may have, this is a huge company with one of the top rated AAA MMOs on the market. The experience and knowledge she gained there will be valuable for future employers. If I got her at the interview table, and she could look me in the eye and say "Yea, I screwed up. I was wrong, I see that now", I'd hire her in a heartbeat.
Experience is valuable. Being a loose cannon and a danger to the corporate image devalues that experience, so if that is corrected then she'll be OK.
I believe the social justice bit came about when people started digging around through Jessica's twitter history and came across some rather unsavory things, and to be fair I couldn't even say they were totally wrong after seeing what she said about the passing of total biscuit. And if it helps at all I don't believe anyone is really trying to focus on any certain race or gender when they make rather brash statements about social justice type matters but rather just the mentalities they see in others. It might seem and might even be true enough to some extent that some people might paint some women as being an kitten(or whatever really) but I believe that's only because the most notable people that have come from that mindset have just simply been women.
When it comes to any push back towards minorities and such, I truly believe the people that would have such a mentality are just simply in the minority. There's some people out there that prefer the company of certain types of people more so then others, the most notable that I've seen over the years being the awkward teenagers that don't quite know how to interact with the opposite sex quite yet.
The more I think about this, the more I think I might be a bit biased in this affair since I personally enjoy the company of everyone until I've given a reason not to. Sorry if this went a bit off course in any way, I think my tired mind might be rambling a bit now.
She was not punished for being "open and honest". She was punished for insulting the community.
Don't be wrong about the point. One thing is being open and honest, and a different thing is acting disrespectfully when you get negative reviews of your job. Jessica Price acted wrongly with her replies when being criticised, taking it to the wrong side when pretending the critics were sexist attacks 'cos she's a woman. No. She wasn't criticised 'cos her gender, but 'cos there was people who disagreed with her job. It's very, very different.
About Peter Fries... I don't understand him. It was obvious how huge failure commited JP... and still, her had to talk, and using similar terms. Honestly, one should think before entering in a discussion like this.
And about what some people is mentioning. AMAs and devs' communication shouldn't be affected at all 'cos this happened. On the oppoiste side, this should show how not to react when being criticised. There is always the chance to discuss what and why, but keeping the right manners.
Peter had been there far longer than Jessica. He's a GW 2 vet and knows better. He knew the importance and consequence of his actions and he unfortunately made the wrong one. He could have tried to calm the conversation or steer it. Instead he just sided with JP's responses and consistently, over several posts, defended her responses. He should have helped Jessica by encouraging her to let it go and they would both still have their positions. In that way, he is just as responsible as JP and therefore deserved the same result.
Great job MO
35000 AP Reached! (7th April 2018)
Really impressed by the way MO handled this situation. That kind of hate towards the community was unacceptable. She needed to be fired. Also, it provides a lesson to others. Do not blindly support someone who is causing hate. You may believe you are defending a co-worker, but what you really are doing is defending hate. You deserve the same punishment.
Also I hope the keyboard warriors in the game community can show some respect to the rest of the Anet employees. The game is coming up on 6 years and still going strong. They have a great product and are working to make it even better.
I doubt that will happen, but there's another option for her: to be hired by someone who shares her beliefs, and who thinks the fact she was fired is one more sign of the damage the patriarchy fueled by cis privileged white men does to the world. You can already see people with a similar mindset in this topic, it's not unlikely that the former dev will find someone like that to hire her.
Which is a pity, because then nothing will be learned from this whole thing.
"Tomorrow my master chokes on his own whip!" - Lore of Skaen, PoE
Open and honest? Have you read the entire thing? JP played the feminist card after an Anet Partner ( also customer ) responded to her big post. And instead of apologizing called him a rando kitten. You don't insult customers where everyone can see it. This whole thing went big and was the worst PR disaster in Anets history and the only way to survive this PR disaster was the instant termination of both employees
Being open and honest doesn't mean insulting and attacking your customers and community. Doing that can even kill the company and leave even more people without a job.
You can be pure evil in real life, but if you work for a company, believe in that company, and put that company's ideals first you can be a great employee. Politics should have nothing to do with it, and the fact Anet was able to separate this persons politics from their actions is a wonderful thing and a huge win for them. You cannot just group any everyone into any group, the real world never ever works that way. This situation is about actions, not politics.
You know, I can't say you're wrong here. Still, if we talk feelings, it just doesn't really feel right. It's hard to explain.
Anyway, I think there are people on both sides of the argument who are having a bit of a misunderstanding.
This isn't about JP's twitter past. This is about JP's twitter present. She engaged with an important member of the community as well as other community members, and was very rude to them. This isn't about sexism or racism or kitten or alt right or whatever. Her views aren't what matters. What matters is she made the mistake of displaying unacceptable behavior towards the people who pay her bills.
I work for one of the big companies in tech. But you don't see that in my forum signature, twitter profile or anywhere else.
She had "Arenanet Story Developer" on her twitter profile and was constantly talking about her work on it. Which is fine, unless you also use it to vent your personal views and rant against people.
Work profiles and personal profiles should not mix.
I only just found out about this whole mess today, and action has already been taken. Thank you, Mr O Brien, for taking this seriously and addressing it so quickly.
As for how they were punished? Well, I can't really say much about that. There's lots of twitter stuff I've not read yet, some of it isn't even there any more. And even if I knew all of that, that still doesn't tell me what was going on behind the closed doors of ANet itself. Were they both model employees? Were they both on the verge of being terminated anyway? I don't know. Not knowing, I'll have to trust in the judgement of those that did know, and the call they made.
So, thank you again for taking this seriously and dealing with it in a prompt manner. I still feel uneasy about it all, but much less so now than I did when I first started to hear of it.
Lip synching is just mime karaoke.
Yo this whole thing was messed up. Glad this toxic behavior was stopped before it got any worse.
<[snip for relevant bit]
^ this bit. this right here. i'm lookin at the responses on this thread alone, and it's kinda making me think maybe this is one punk venue that ain't so punk no more. and maybe i should take my marginalized self out the door and like. find other pastures. (im mixing metaphors, but i hope it makes still sense.)
To my knowledge that standard is being applied to a great number of people these days when they are employed.. specially those who's social media's are affiliated or directly linked to the companies they work for.. I believe it's called a Social media clause.
Acting poorly online specially to those whom you've a professional connection to heavily damages your reputation and also makes your employer look very bad by association.
Now don't get me wrong.. I am no fan of this concept either, I am completely for free speech regardless of how badly some people abuse it.. but this is a legitimate thing that does exist and I would strongly advise that everyone keep their home and work lives completely seperate, especially on their private social media accounts.
Thank you for being quick to take decisive action, Anet. It probably wasn't an easy decision, but I'm glad to see that you're willing to stick up for you players like this. I wish this could have been resolved without people having to leave the company (I appreciated Jessica's openness during the recent AMA), but I understand that sometimes there isn't a perfect solution.
That said, please don't be discouraged from communicating with us in the future. I'm sure that most of the community understands this was an extreme outlier based largely on one person's repeated poor behavior, not the company's.
There ya go.. your agreeing with many others in this post, this community who also feel she deserved it. No one said anything about being proud of the actions taken, but good riddance to a bad egg is imo quite apt.
Why do you feel that a community voicing their absolute disdain for JP over her inexcusable bad mouthing of players, disgusting behaviour???..
At the end of the day people can disagree on pretty much anything, but people like JP prefer to take disagreement to a whole different level.
She chose to use a personal account and opened the floor for critique, which she handled terabad.. ..when challenged with opposing views or offered opinion she played to form and went off on one ... it was JP that was demonstrating quite clearly what" utterly disgusting behaviour" looks like imo.
As for PF.. I think it wouldn't do any harm for ANET to revisit this and maybe re-consider their action unless of course there are other things that we don't know about that swung the pendulum the way it did.
Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!
Also I feel a lot of people here havent worked at a big company before. This is standard procedure.
Anet will probably rework their social media rules after this and they totally should.
Ive seen other people at Microsoft, JP Morgans and other companies being fired for way way WAY less.
This is so true. I don't get why people have to show who they work for, unless part of their work description is being on social media. I'm on a bunch of different social media, good luck figuring out where I work. This should be ingrained at every corporate orientation at every company world wide.
Now I'm not so disappointed with this release. Gonna make Verdarach in MO's honour.
signature
Consequences of white knighting.
If you ever have to white knight, ask if its worth it in the end. Save your kid? Worth it. Defend your dignity? If you value pride or self esteem more. Win an internet shouting match? Never.
I just have to say this is the dumbest thing I've ever read, the precedent was set over a decade ago, Anet encourages their community to interact with them at every turn, in every way, on every platform, all the time. If you label your social media account with the fact you work at Anet, Anet fans will follow you and interact with you. If you insult and belittle fans for doing what ANet has literally always asked of its community, you'll be punished. Not sure why any of this is complicated in any manner.
Thank you, I am not going to name the employees in question but thank you so much for valuing us. As a human being, I know all to well that it sucks to not have a job and a steady income to make ends meet, but at the same time it's not acceptable to be rude to others and with things now a days. It's a wonderful sight to see a company actually favor and treasure their customers and community rather then...You know.
Wish some companies would follow the example you have set, Mike. I won't name said companies but just know this, We appreciate the justice you have served and grateful that you actually care for us, the community as a whole. From the bottom of my heart, Thank you and you have my respect. I always have recommend Guild Wars 2 to friends who never played it, and I shall continue to do so. Especially after this, this is a good example for all business's to follow!
-Dessi
The community went way over the rails in witch hunting and baying for blood. That is what i find utterly deplorable. Plenty of angsty edgelord coments that is disgusting to read.
Words and actions outside of the context of your job do matter in real life -- this is evident in many ways.
The trick is to keep your "less than pleasant" words and actions in the private sphere, not a public venue like Twitter. Her account was visible to everyone, and directly tied her with ArenaNet. It was the equivalent of shouting racist ideologies in a crowded street. Somebody's likely going to notice and get you in trouble.
Should we take joy or glee in them getting fired? Absolutely not, I wish that on nobody. But in this case, it's not surprising and is one of the potentially valid responses to this incident.
The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!
Hey folks,
We want to make it clear that we do not intend to host comments that are disrespectful towards current or former employees (or other forum members), that attempt to rehash the matter ad infinitum, or that in any way are a breach of the Forums Code of Conduct. We have a policy that supports valid, constructive posts, and we are dedicated to keeping the tone of the forums reasonable and productive. Please post with wisdom and thoughtfulness.
Thank you.
Gaile Gray
Communications Manager: ArenaNet
Fansite & Guild Relations; In-Game Events; Community Showcase Live
A very unexpected decision, but a decisive one that puts the community first. Thank you for making hard decisions Mo
I design medical software for a living, a bit different from narrative design, but I believe design principles apply across the board. One must be married to the customer's problems. If I ever told a hospital that I don't need their feedback because they haven't ever designed medical software before I would look like an utter fool. The customer has more insight into what their needs are than anyone else, whether those needs are more diverse dialogue options or a way to run numbers from their databases without having to deal with SQL. My job is to figure out a solution that works for the broadest swath of customers and I can only do that by speaking with those customers, iterating on prototypes, and usability testing. You could of course do iterative narratives to see what, out of a sample size makes people the most satisfied, but I'm sure that gets super weird and it could potentially ignore whatever ANet's vision for the story is.
I don't have my place of work posted in my social media feed, nor would I ever engage my customers outside of work, but the amount of times I deal with complaints meant for another development team, criticism about how a workflow isn't what a certain customer does, or just inane unrelated things is basically every time I meet with a customer.
I don't know what narrative design is like, and I'm no story teller, but empathy is a key ingredient in being a good designer. Technical stuff doesn't matter if you can't hear what your customer's needs are. You're one part customer service and one part developer as near as I can tell.
I've seen people express a little too much glee over her being let go, but I don't understand what you mean by witch hunt. Who's burning innocent people at the stake?
Disney did in one occasion, unfortunately Disney being Disney the matter I'm referring to cost a whole studio to loose their jobs and a game to be shutdown prematurely RIP Marvel Heroes.
Just wanted to come on to say I'm happy for the very swift and quick action to remove such toxicity from a work environment and help the playerbase. I'll get Path of Fire for that!
Pretty disappointed in you bowing that mob.
While I believe many applaud Anet's movement, I feel that firing Fries might be overboard. I mean, the only crime he kinda did was to White Knight. Maybe a warning would have suffice. I disagree with what he did but I still choked up when I heard that he is gone as well..
Listen, none of us know the full details of what happened behind the scenes. You're putting forth some assumptions about Anet's decision. For all we know, he could've decided to leave out of his own will or he could've stood by his first position and thus encountered a disagreement with the bosses. We just don't know that stuff. Maybe they had a talk with Jessica as well and this wasn't the first course of action either. I'm more inclined to believe, especially in Peter's case, that a senior employee like him doesn't get the boot instantly like that for an offense like his.
As for the general subject, it's not something I would rejoice to see someone lose their job but the actions taken were out of bounds (quite extreme attitude from the individual herself) and disciplinary actions were in order so I am glad to see Anet is not afraid to act when their employees cross the line.
Twitter is a public social media and when you're discussing your work, presenting yourself as an employee of a company, etc. you do have to be careful with your words and no matter how loud you shout that it's your personal social media account... you've simply crossed the line. If you believe your account to be your private matter and not regard your employer, then make your account actually private. 2 birds 1 stone. No more engagement in criticism you cannot handle and no harm done to your career. I hope the lesson is taken if not now, later down the road. I prefer redemption stories.
Actually, I'm disappointed in ArenaNet...and the vast majority of the GW community as well...this is 2018, we all need to move into the now and start learning to separate a persons freedom of speech on PERSONAL social media from what they say on BUSINESS related social media. This actually extends beyond social media and includes sports personal conduct clauses...what you or anyone does on their own PERSONAL time does not reflect on how well they perform a job. I'm going to be quite unpopular with the following, but all of this really started with the Ray Rice thing(look it up if you don't know about that) and the NFL. Now, before you think I condone any type of abuse against another person you'd be so far from the truth it would make me laugh, but having said that, even though what he did to his girlfriend in an elevator during the off-season was atrocious, I do not think it was anyone's business but his and hers alone. If you're going to hold someone else up as a role model, society has a serious issue, the only role models should be your parents(if you have them of course).
The only way society is going to advance is this way: what you do at work or while representing your employer is directly related to that employer; what you do or say on your own PERSONAL time has nothing to do with your employer and until the rest of the world learns this we're all screwed(that even includes if you reference your employer on your own PERSONAL social media handles). I DO NOT CARE what someone does on their own time, nor should anyone else but that person, even the employer should not care what that person does on their own PERSONAL time, but we as a society have forgotten how to separate work from personal time...that is what work hours are for, so those people unable to tell the difference can.
Wake up world, this is 2018, not 1984 or 1950 or anyone other year...time to evolve or die out.
Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!
While I do dislike people loosing jobs over, well, speech. And It seems to me that this is the best decision ANet could have come to. I'll come back to the game after a while because of this. And if I manage to get some spare cash, ANet, it all yours. Saved some money avoiding a lot of other entertainment anyway. I'm (not)looking at you Star Wars.
I'm sorry but that is just false. The community reacted exactly like it should have. An employee of Anet attacked a community member that has added a ton for absolutely no reason. Anet has always asked the entire community to opine,interact, criticise, discuss on every platform, everywhere, all the time, in game and out. You cannot tell a community you will always be open to them then allow an employee to insult and degrade.
Whether the media is personal or public becomes rather irrelevant when the people you're mistreating are the people who buy and promote your company's product.
Kitten types? What would those be?
Wow. The angry mob wins.
Do u even realize what the problem was about ? because from what u've just wrote, it seems like u have no idea. She publicly bashed a CUSTOMER of the company she works for while talking about a topic regarding this game, she disregarded the feedback of the customer, something a developer should never do, because her job is to create a product that people will want to buy, what she did showed that she doesn't give a kitten about your/mine or any other customer's feedback, it doesn't matter if she did that in her PERSONAL time, off work, because the topic involved her job she was at that moment representing the company.
because it can never be said enough,
"We love you Gaile!"
Call it what you want, nothing was presented as reasonable discourse with a very large amount of spammed threads to clog the forum. Plenty of posters declared for throwing anet under the bus and comming up with all sorts of ridiculous things such as asking if they were racist or had a whole culture of it. Simply unable to wait for a response from Anet on the matter.
If the person, on their own time and personal social media accounts, is actively promoting themself as a company representative then they have decided to erase the line between personal and professional.
I do not see how this is relevant to the matter at hand. The important part here is her unacceptable behavior towards the community that keeps this game running. This, and ONLY this, is the reason she was let go. Mob rules or witch hunts have nothing to do with this.
You can thank Twitter ^_^
Are we ready to burn down mass social media yet?
Yes that could very well be the case, I can't personally say for sure though since I have not seen that information, and that's exactly why I could neither defend or condone Peter's firing either.
Bandwagons are not a good thing to jump on.. specially when you don't have access to the whole picture which is why I simply said.. wow... just wow.