How to fix healing classes — Guild Wars 2 Forums

How to fix healing classes

As many of you know the druid nerf that happened with the last major balance patch. This nerf made druid one of the weakest raw healing classes in game if you chose to continue to might stack with it due to having to take a seperate trait to get your healing back. Yet with this change, the raid scene continues to use 2 druids. The reason for this is due to the extra support that druid supplies through the means of might stacking, spirits, and glyphs. Even though the healing power isn't as much there is still remains the superior option to a lot of people. How can we change this?

Instead of what I hear a lot of people say in just nerfing druid more, there are other options. Why not buff the other classes to allow for more support in other ways. Right now there quite a few healing builds: tempest, firebrand, scourge, renegade, and if you wanna meme it up with scrapper. And I kind of want to cover some changes to a few of these that could make them an option to replace druid, and if anybody else has ideas feel free to say them.

Tempest:
To start one of the major things with tempest is how the class works. It is built to be a weird support power hybrid, which is fine as firebrand is similar, but the power side is far outclassed by power weaver. If you single in on the support traits and making the shouts more support orientated can really help fix this issue. Another change I suggest is making a trait what when you overload an element it pulses a boon depending on which element you overload. Fire would supply might, air would give fury or quickness, earth would give protection, and water would give regeneration or vigor. And what you could do is have the overloads be on a universal cooldown similar to that of the glyph of storms change (sorry if this is already implimented, it has been awhile since I've actually played tempest). On top of that, the shouts could have more supportive utility, even if it is just through the use of traits where they could give temperary team buffs similar to the use of glyphs on druid.

Firebrand:
Firebrand probably has the most secondary utility out of all the other healing specs due to being able to supply a large amount of quickness, aegis, might, and regen. But where it falls short is how it has to heal. A lot of the issues with firebrand are needing a very well coordinated group due to having to require people to stack very tightly as the heals are supplied in a cone in front of the firebrand. One major thing that can help with this is simply making the cone larger. Firebrand is already a pretty solid healing option but also lacks a way to passively buff your teammates. This can simply be implimented into mantras through using a trait where they could give a temperary buff when using a mantra.

As far as scourge, renegade, and scrapper I'm not too sure how to impliment more support viable options while remaining relatively true to the specialization themselves. If anybody has any ideas on how to improve any of the other class or different opinions, feel free to say so. I hope this can become a focal point for alternative healer discussion.

Thanks for reading.

Comments

  • yinsheng.3416yinsheng.3416 Member
    edited July 7, 2018

    Here is my idea about the Healing Tempest changes:

    • "Eye of the Storm": Reduce the Superspeed from this skill from 5 seconds to 2 seconds
      Now grants 2 seconds of shocking aura
      Reduce the cooldown from 40 to 35 in PvE

    • "Aftershock": Reduce the cooldown from 45 to 40 in PvE

    • "Unstable Conduit" - Major Adept Trait: Overload no longer grant auras when completed.
      Now increase outgoing boon from overload to 33%

    • "Invigorating Torrents" - Major Master Trait: Auras no longer grant regen and vigor.
      Auras grant to allies increase 10% damage in 3 seconds and cannot be stacked.

    • "Elemental Bastion" - Major Grandmaster Trait: Auras apply no longer heals but give barrier instead.

    • "Imbued Melodies" - Major Grandmaster Trait: No longer increase concentration while wieding a warhorn.
      Increase duration of auras by 20% instead.

    • "Heat Sync": No longer grants might. This skill give 2 seconds of Fire Aura instead.

    • "Healing Globe": Reduce the healing scale. Now grants 1 second of Frost Aura each pulse.
    • "Cyclone": No longer grants swiftness to allies it affects. Now grants 1 second of Shocking Aura instead.
    • "Overload Air": Now grants 1 second of fury to allies when channeling.
  • Hoodie.1045Hoodie.1045 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As much as I love the rework that the Med Kit got that has made support engineer a thing now, the first two skills Med Blaster and Bandage Blast could be improved to at least be on par with the Firebrands' healing.

    Med Blaster could have its' healing increased by a lot and any healing the engineer gives to allies is given to him/her. Having to rely on allies having a lot of boons is what makes the current healing on Med Blaster weak.

    Bandage Blast could be a ground targeted ammo skill that allows both allies and the engineer to pick up the bandages. In its' current state is not bad, it's just that you have to be really close to an ally in order to heal them. Maybe that was intentional, but I don't like to use arcs in order to heal allies because you can still miss.

    Other improvements I would like to see are cooldown reductions. Cleansing Field from 15 seconds to 12 seconds, Vital Burst from 20 seconds to 15 seconds and make it also cleanse two conditions and Infusion Bomb from 30 seconds to 20 seconds.

    Karras

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sadly, your premise that healing was nerfed with PvE in mind is wrong. The only reason healing is nerfed on healing spec is that anet find inconvenient to have long fight in PvP and, generaly, PvP players hate facing Bunkerish players.

    So Druid healing was nerfed because he ended up with to much survivability, the same goes for Tempest and firebrand will most likely follow on that trend.

    I won't say that your ideas are wrong and in fact I agree with some of the change you propose but anet nerf based on PvE only if they are forced to do it due to unintended exploit.

    At the moment, you take a ranger for it's uniques buffs and a specifically a druid for it's might staking ability. Remove the might stacking and druid disapear from the raid groups while being replaced by either core or soulbeast with the healing taken care by another profession. Buffing the healing at the cost of the might stacking would certainly appear like a good idea but in fact it wouldn't do any good for the druid since group wouldn't need more healing, they would just take the healing character that output the more dps.

    Tempest on another hand isn't in a bad spot, especially when it come to healing output. The issue of the elementalist lie in the fact that he rely on aura and aura effect sucks. Auras effect need big improvement and this is likely the direction anet should make it's changes. More boons isn't the answer for this profession.

    Firebrand would probably need QoL change. However, the amount of support it output is already quite high especially since the core support is already strong, yeah, mostly unneeded in regular content but still strong.

    Scourge, should have been a great support e-spec. Anet failled at balancing it. Their mistake is probably that they wanted to give both punishment and support to this spec and they didn't take into account the consequences that of barrier stacking effects. They totally failled at gauging the mechanisms they put on this e-spec. I wouldn't say that everything need to be reworked, but it's very close.

    Scrapper don't really have it's place there so I'll skip it. Instead, we still have 2 professions that need a bit of talk: Mesmer and revenant.

    Mesmer and revenant are both close in regard of the support they provide, except that mesmer is overwhelmingly better at it. I think revenant need to be a match to the mesmer in regard of it's ability to provide alacrity while fighting. Revenant also need a mean to provide quickness on top of that. I think the best would be to reduce a bit the focus on healing power for the revenant to create some room for quickness (not that the revenant is a stranger to this boon since shiro make use of it).

  • @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Sadly, your premise that healing was nerfed with PvE in mind is wrong. The only reason healing is nerfed on healing spec is that anet find inconvenient to have long fight in PvP and, generaly, PvP players hate facing Bunkerish players.

    So Druid healing was nerfed because he ended up with to much survivability, the same goes for Tempest and firebrand will most likely follow on that trend.

    I won't say that your ideas are wrong and in fact I agree with some of the change you propose but anet nerf based on PvE only if they are forced to do it due to unintended exploit.

    At the moment, you take a ranger for it's uniques buffs and a specifically a druid for it's might staking ability. Remove the might stacking and druid disapear from the raid groups while being replaced by either core or soulbeast with the healing taken care by another profession. Buffing the healing at the cost of the might stacking would certainly appear like a good idea but in fact it wouldn't do any good for the druid since group wouldn't need more healing, they would just take the healing character that output the more dps.

    Tempest on another hand isn't in a bad spot, especially when it come to healing output. The issue of the elementalist lie in the fact that he rely on aura and aura effect sucks. Auras effect need big improvement and this is likely the direction anet should make it's changes. More boons isn't the answer for this profession.

    Firebrand would probably need QoL change. However, the amount of support it output is already quite high especially since the core support is already strong, yeah, mostly unneeded in regular content but still strong.

    Scourge, should have been a great support e-spec. Anet failled at balancing it. Their mistake is probably that they wanted to give both punishment and support to this spec and they didn't take into account the consequences that of barrier stacking effects. They totally failled at gauging the mechanisms they put on this e-spec. I wouldn't say that everything need to be reworked, but it's very close.

    Scrapper don't really have it's place there so I'll skip it. Instead, we still have 2 professions that need a bit of talk: Mesmer and revenant.

    Mesmer and revenant are both close in regard of the support they provide, except that mesmer is overwhelmingly better at it. I think revenant need to be a match to the mesmer in regard of it's ability to provide alacrity while fighting. Revenant also need a mean to provide quickness on top of that. I think the best would be to reduce a bit the focus on healing power for the revenant to create some room for quickness (not that the revenant is a stranger to this boon since shiro make use of it).

    They do have the ability to split PvE and PvP independantly from eachother. Where I agree with them trying to stray away from keeping people from bunkering down (as necros used to do pre-PoF) the primary issues with the other supports in comparison to druid are the ability to supply support that is more than just healing. Might is a major one but one druid can supply enough might for a full raid party as grace of the land can hit 10 people. But as chaos chrono is a thing, boons outside of might are not necissarily needs but let's be real here, we don't know how long chaos chrono will be a thing. I'm more offering suggestions to give other classes alternative ways in replacing druid as the "meta" healer. And the only real way of doing that is giving them things that are semi on par with the spirits and spotter that druid can offer

  • @Hoodie.1045 said:
    As much as I love the rework that the Med Kit got that has made support engineer a thing now, the first two skills Med Blaster and Bandage Blast could be improved to at least be on par with the Firebrands' healing.

    Med Blaster could have its' healing increased by a lot and any healing the engineer gives to allies is given to him/her. Having to rely on allies having a lot of boons is what makes the current healing on Med Blaster weak.

    Bandage Blast could be a ground targeted ammo skill that allows both allies and the engineer to pick up the bandages. In its' current state is not bad, it's just that you have to be really close to an ally in order to heal them. Maybe that was intentional, but I don't like to use arcs in order to heal allies because you can still miss.

    Other improvements I would like to see are cooldown reductions. Cleansing Field from 15 seconds to 12 seconds, Vital Burst from 20 seconds to 15 seconds and make it also cleanse two conditions and Infusion Bomb from 30 seconds to 20 seconds.

    Since I don't actually know the specifics of healing scrapper, i've only experienced it twice while doing CMs in fractals, i was geniunely curious with the specifics of it, and since i didn't know the specifics is why i didn't really add to it. Thanks for the clarification on exactly what healing scrapper entailed!

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The annoying thing about fixing healing classes for PvE is that you can't just look at healing classes if you want to do it, but have to take at least all support roles into consideration. Imho, the classes that could be fixed most easily are FB and renegade. Give them a stat combo that combines condition damage, expertise and concentration (and maybe a fourth stat, ideally healing power) and I'd say you've gone most of the way to making them a thing. Why do I focus on stats (that don't even necessarily include healing power) and not on class-specific stuff? Because that would give them a niche in which the combo of these two could replace the chrono/druid combo - trading c/d superior utility for FB/ren superior damage. Making the support of FB and renegade less clunky by giving their skills more radius would then be another, less important step towards making them a realistic option for raids/fractals.

    Tempest, scourge and engi are a different case, since they do not venture into chrono territory as FB and renegade do. Without access to quickness and alacrity, they'd need to be able to (fully) replace a druid without at the same time consigning druids to the trashcan. That means being able to provide 25 might (ideally for 10 people) and fury for the subgroup. And then, in some way, spirits and spotter would need to be addressed. Right now, I have no convincing idea how to solve these issues. Also, it appears stupid to have one possible combo of chrono and one of four healing classes (druid, temp, engi, scourge) on one side and the FB/ren combo on the other side. But without a serious shake-up of the way quickness and alacrity are distributed among classes, it would end up there.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • @CptAurellian.9537 said:
    The annoying thing about fixing healing classes for PvE is that you can't just look at healing classes if you want to do it, but have to take at least all support roles into consideration. Imho, the classes that could be fixed most easily are FB and renegade. Give them a stat combo that combines condition damage, expertise and concentration (and maybe a fourth stat, ideally healing power) and I'd say you've gone most of the way to making them a thing. Why do I focus on stats (that don't even necessarily include healing power) and not on class-specific stuff? Because that would give them a niche in which the combo of these two could replace the chrono/druid combo - trading c/d superior utility for FB/ren superior damage. Making the support of FB and renegade less clunky by giving their skills more radius would then be another, less important step towards making them a realistic option for raids/fractals.

    Tempest, scourge and engi are a different case, since they do not venture into chrono territory as FB and renegade do. Without access to quickness and alacrity, they'd need to be able to (fully) replace a druid without at the same time consigning druids to the trashcan. That means being able to provide 25 might (ideally for 10 people) and fury for the subgroup. And then, in some way, spirits and spotter would need to be addressed. Right now, I have no convincing idea how to solve these issues. Also, it appears stupid to have one possible combo of chrono and one of four healing classes (druid, temp, engi, scourge) on one side and the FB/ren combo on the other side. But without a serious shake-up of the way quickness and alacrity are distributed among classes, it would end up there.

    Oh i totally agree. When you have to take into consideration the ability for a class to both work as healer and boon support it makes you have to take into consideration how that would effect the overall team dynamic. But then they also have 1 other issue with using those boons in the form on being able to share them, which gives mesmer a leg up in that case. They would have to output enough boons to supply atleast 90% quickness and alacrity uptime to 5 people to even be considered a replacement for mesmer

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    FB and renegade can already be that replacement, they currently just have no advantage and quite a few disadvantages over chrono/druid. The other classes ... well, no need to talk about them as long as the devs clearly have no clue how to do balancing.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Which is kinda the point of this thread. Ultimately it is a way to spark ideas on a way to make it so you may not even need 1 druid in a party. Because as it stands, you almost need atleast 1 druid, and the other can be filled by any other healer, usually another druid for pug/high end groups

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @yinsheng.3416 said:
    Here is my idea about the Healing Tempest changes:

    • "Eye of the Storm": Reduce the Superspeed from this skill from 5 seconds to 2 seconds
      Now grants 2 seconds of shocking aura
      Reduce the cooldown from 40 to 35 in PvE

    • "Aftershock": Reduce the cooldown from 45 to 40 in PvE

    • "Unstable Conduit" - Major Adept Trait: Overload no longer grant auras when completed.
      Now increase outgoing boon from overload to 33%

    • "Invigorating Torrents" - Major Master Trait: Auras no longer grant regen and vigor.
      Auras grant to allies increase 10% damage in 3 seconds and cannot be stacked.

    • "Elemental Bastion" - Major Grandmaster Trait: Auras apply no longer heals but give barrier instead.

    • "Imbued Melodies" - Major Grandmaster Trait: No longer increase concentration while wieding a warhorn.
      Increase duration of auras by 20% instead.

    • "Heat Sync": No longer grants might. This skill give 2 seconds of Fire Aura instead.

    • "Healing Globe": Reduce the healing scale. Now grants 1 second of Frost Aura each pulse.
    • "Cyclone": No longer grants swiftness to allies it affects. Now grants 1 second of Shocking Aura instead.
    • "Overload Air": Now grants 1 second of fury to allies when channeling.

    I definetly would play support tempest again.

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My last post my have been a bit too unclear. The "no need to talk" refers to other classes possibly replacing chrono, since currently no one but FB and renegade has any tools to do so.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • aceofbass.2163aceofbass.2163 Member ✭✭✭

    @nexblackheart.3471 said:
    Tempest:
    To start one of the major things with tempest is how the class works. It is built to be a weird support power hybrid,

    Actually it leans more on the condi side rather than power.

    If you single in on the support traits and making the shouts more support orientated can really help fix this issue. Another change I suggest is making a trait what when you overload an element it pulses a boon depending on which element you overload. Fire would supply might, air would give fury or quickness, earth would give protection, and water would give regeneration or vigor.

    Currently, overloads already does this except for overload air which gives affected allies a static charge instead. And this is baseline. Trait arcane then you have more boons.

    On top of that, the shouts could have more supportive utility, even if it is just through the use of traits where they could give temperary team buffs similar to the use of glyphs on druid.

    When traited with tempestuous aria, shouts give might and weakness on top of auras and the actual utility of that shout.

    IMO tempest is fine the way it is. What it's lacking is condi cleanses.

    What makes druid superior to tempest(or any healer for that matter) in pve is not because tempest is not good, rather druid has too many offensive passive unique buffs which is necessary for a raid environment. The spirits alone single handedly kills other healers in pve.

    Take it to an environment where the spirits aren't needed like pvp/wvw and the druid crumbles as a support and where all other healers(rev, tempest, and fb the most) can shine.

  • If you read some of the other posts i shared. They whole idea of the suggestions for change are to make classes like tempest a full replacement for a druid rather than just a fill for 1 of the 2 druids innthe party. The issue with tempest (I believe atleast) is it was a rushed spec to get HoT out so it wasn't really finished fully. Even if it has a condi lean it isn't enough to even close to compete with weaver on dps. And i know tempest has probably more healing potential, and more condi cleanse (experienced this in sloth), than druid but that extra support ability in forms of passive damage increases is where it falls behind. Ideally these ideas are ways to make other healing classes being able to fully replace both druids instead of just 1 to allow for more options.

  • gateless gate.8406gateless gate.8406 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 8, 2018

    FB's cone limitations are the only reason it's balanced. If FB had bigger/more frequent AOE heals then it would pretty much fill the role of support chrono AND healer at the same time.

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @gateless gate.8406 said:
    FB's cone limitations are the only reason it's balanced. If FB had bigger/more frequent AOE heals then it would pretty much fill the role of support chrono AND healer at the same time.

    It wouldn't. To replace the support chrono, you have to bring both quickness and alacrity, thus a boon-oriented renegade will be required in any case.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • gateless gate.8406gateless gate.8406 Member ✭✭✭

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @gateless gate.8406 said:
    FB's cone limitations are the only reason it's balanced. If FB had bigger/more frequent AOE heals then it would pretty much fill the role of support chrono AND healer at the same time.

    It wouldn't. To replace the support chrono, you have to bring both quickness and alacrity, thus a boon-oriented renegade will be required in any case.

    I would argue that quickness is way more important than alacrity. So you're right that FB wouldn't bring alac, but it would bring orders of magnitude more healing than the chrono, meaning you could potentially flatten druid+chrono into just FB and bring a fourth pure DPS.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'll talk specifically on Necromancer and Engineer for this this since those are the two professions I play the most. And I've toyed with healing specs for each of them. I'll start with necromancer since I have more to say on that one since it needs a lot of work. They're not even close to having a good support spec. They are far further off than you think.

    Necromancer:
    Issues:
    The first issue we run into as a necromancer is that scourge seems to have a split identity. It wants to support but also deal damage. But its far better at damage and the minor support it provides is great but only great when comparing it to core specs, not other elite specs since its minor without investment. The support with investment hits a hard cap as well with barrier. Since Barrier can only stack up to 50% of a player's health it loses some of its effectiveness when trying to stack it on the low health professions(Elementalist, Thief and Guardian).
    Next we have boons. The necromancer on its own doesn't provide a lot of boons, especially to allies. Core necromancer can give regeneration, protection and might if we exclude condi conversion. With Scourge they gain the ability to provide stability. But looking at how they provide those boons we see an issue. Although scourge is good at applying might the other boons can be a struggle. For regen Focus has a bounce which means it wont always be able to give it to the target you want, Mark of Blood requires it to trigger on a foe so they need to be standing where the foe is in order to get it. For protection you have spectral wall which requires allies to walk through it or for you to cast it on the ally and with its thin radius this isn't reliable and asking plays to walk through it is too much. Wells apply it easier with Vampiric ritual but wells have a long cooldown and this requires you sacrifice your best support trait transfusion. The stability that the scourge gives which is only though Trail of Anguish has its own problems. For starters they need to basically follow you to get any significant number of stacks and its duration isn't very long. Standing still doesn't aid them more which means you'll have to move around which scourge healer doesn't want to do a lot of.
    With the scourge it has further problems. Because its design is so alien to the necromancer's overall design the support the necromancer did already have doesn't synergies well with the scourge. Life from death for example heals and partially revives downed allies but only on exiting shroud. You have to predict when you'd need to heal allies with that on scourge which means you'll be waiting 6 seconds for that trigger to occur hoping it matters. And if it does matter something wrong is going on. To further this issue the scourge very little synergy with other trait lines like death or spite. You basically need to run blood, which provides minor support at best, and Soul reaping, which provides no support but empowers your shades.
    The necromancer is a selfish Profession. And this is by design because they have shroud. When arena net told us that I wanted to scream because it was the absolute worst design decision they've made with the professions ever! It made me so mad I was physically shaking. But because of this it furthers the issue of their support spec having no options to really support allies.
    Looking at the scourge on its own, it has this concentration trait but no boons to really benefit form it. Sure they have might, but honestly their might duration is so high that the concentration is superfluous for that purpose. Also looking at the shade abilities, since their beneficial side of those skills have a delay timer their defensive support play style is seriously hindered because of this. They have to play a heavy prediction game, more so than a protection monk in GW1 which means they can very easily waste life force. Their support traits are fine, but the grandmaster Sand Savant is seriously lacking when it comes to support. It provides more targets that can be hit with its aoe, sure but beyond that it does nothing to improve their support game. Since their barrier application is minor without Sand cascade and they only provide might this trait could use some work to make the shades more supportive.
    The Skills themselves don't do much and have long cool downs. Wells are supposed to be support, but their long cool down and low impact makes them minor in the grand scheme of things. Well of blood isn't even a water field and does less for the group than sand cascade and well of power has such a minor benefit when comparing it to other profession's condi cleans abilities. Conversion doesn't always come up, and the minor might this provides is a drop in the bucket compared to what they can already provide with scourge. Blood Is power for its might is minor again, lasts a long time, but minor and requires allies to be extremely close to you. This is taken as a damage skill, this could provide no might at all and necromancer's would still take it on their condi spec. The punishment skills also provide minimal benefit for allies. Usually they do next to nothing for them such is the case for serpent siphon or their benefit is good but isn't enough for how long its cool down is as is the case for Ghastly breach.

    Solutions:
    With all this said I do have some solutions to the problems. I've made a few posts on it which you're more than welcome to read. They're pretty length but I'll leave a couple links since I'm getting fatigued from stressing myself out over the necromancer.

    Engineer:
    Engineer is actually a pretty solid healer. I've been running it in fractals and raids and what its capable of is pretty major. That being said they could use some improvements.

    • Their healing scaling could be improved a bit. Although their healing is pretty solid so far, but this requires you to take soothing detonation to get significant healing. The engineer has a lot of passive minor healing just going around at all times but sometimes its scaling is pretty wonky.
    • Turrets could use some stronger boon support. Currently the conception is that turrets is the way to go, but from my testing the healing engi provides just isn't strong enough without soothing detonation. And the boons the turrets provide just don't last long enough to really justify their use. If they had an increased duration and if they could give boons to 10 targets as opposed to 5 this would go a long way for the turrets' utility.
    • Next we have the Gyros. I've been using the gyros and honestly, Bulwark gyro does serious work. It earns its name. Purge gyro isn't too shabby either although it could have a bit more utility to it. Since it can only cleans from one ally at a time it would be nice if it would purge from multiple allies at the cost of its own life. The other bonus I'd do with the gyros is I'd change the function of Shredder gyro from being a whirl finisher to an AOE damage buff, much like Frost spirit. But each time an ally would attack it would over exert itself to give that damage boost and lose health before it exploded. This could make it a pretty good option. Last for Final Salvo the GM trait I'd have it so that not only would they provide super speed and stability on detonation but a Unique boon based on the Gyro that exploded. Resistance for purge gyro, Protection for bulwark, furry for shredder, Might for blast gyro, stealth for stealth gyro and alacrity for medic gyro.
    • As for the Gyro's tool belt skills a couple should be improved. Bypass coating should stunbreak allies and chemical field should probably eat boons.
    • Elixirs could use some improvements as well, but What that would be is hard to say. Suggestions would be nice as I'm at a loss for those. That might require its own post. I'll have to think on it a bit more, but they are underwhelming for their support side.
    • Last thing I want to talk about is Function gyro. I find this a little difficult to use. It would be nice if a prompt for it would pop up when an ally goes down without clicking on them on the ground or clicking on them on the party chat. A bit of a quality of life change. That would be a nice shift.

    Beyond that I feel the engineer is great as a healer. I have so much fun using them because they have so much utility and their healing build is extremely complicated to use, much like their condi rotation. I absolutely love how much there is to do with it and how many little synergies they have to make such a unique healer. Just a couple small tweaks and they'll be great. In the mean time I can actually run them as a healer and feel effective enough.

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @gateless gate.8406 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @gateless gate.8406 said:
    FB's cone limitations are the only reason it's balanced. If FB had bigger/more frequent AOE heals then it would pretty much fill the role of support chrono AND healer at the same time.

    It wouldn't. To replace the support chrono, you have to bring both quickness and alacrity, thus a boon-oriented renegade will be required in any case.

    I would argue that quickness is way more important than alacrity. So you're right that FB wouldn't bring alac, but it would bring orders of magnitude more healing than the chrono, meaning you could potentially flatten druid+chrono into just FB and bring a fourth pure DPS.

    In many cases, you can already have a chrono do both the buffs and the healing for a group. Compared to a minstrel chrono, a FB provides just more overhealing in quite many fights.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • gateless gate.8406gateless gate.8406 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2018

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @gateless gate.8406 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @gateless gate.8406 said:
    FB's cone limitations are the only reason it's balanced. If FB had bigger/more frequent AOE heals then it would pretty much fill the role of support chrono AND healer at the same time.

    It wouldn't. To replace the support chrono, you have to bring both quickness and alacrity, thus a boon-oriented renegade will be required in any case.

    I would argue that quickness is way more important than alacrity. So you're right that FB wouldn't bring alac, but it would bring orders of magnitude more healing than the chrono, meaning you could potentially flatten druid+chrono into just FB and bring a fourth pure DPS.

    In many cases, you can already have a chrono do both the buffs and the healing for a group. Compared to a minstrel chrono, a FB provides just more overhealing in quite many fights.

    IMO, 1k-3k healing coming at inopportune and random times in a fixed location is not proper healing. Now, that still might be plenty of healing for a good group, but if you want actual healing Chrono won't cut it.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Shared healing could be expressly forbidden forcing each profession to stand on its own. It would make balancing easier and eliminate healer as a "class."

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anchoku.8142 said:
    Shared healing could be expressly forbidden forcing each profession to stand on its own. It would make balancing easier and eliminate healer as a "class."

    I can't even begin to describe how outlandishly bad idea this would be at the games current state.

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anchoku.8142 said:
    Shared healing could be expressly forbidden forcing each profession to stand on its own. It would make balancing easier and eliminate healer as a "class."

    Congrats, we already had a state close to that during all of vanilla. It was amazingly bad gameplay.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • flarezi.9381flarezi.9381 Member ✭✭

    Does anyone anywhere even use healing tempest anymore? Does it even count as healer anymore? I just remember it dropped since huge aura nerfs and eles in general haven't got any love since then.

  • @flarezi.9381 said:
    Does anyone anywhere even use healing tempest anymore? Does it even count as healer anymore? I just remember it dropped since huge aura nerfs and eles in general haven't got any love since then.

    It's a hard-carry healer in fractals. Pumps out a ton of healing but not a lot of DPS buffs. Think it also sees use in wvw.

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @gateless gate.8406 said:

    @flarezi.9381 said:
    Does anyone anywhere even use healing tempest anymore? Does it even count as healer anymore? I just remember it dropped since huge aura nerfs and eles in general haven't got any love since then.

    It's a hard-carry healer in fractals. Pumps out a ton of healing but not a lot of DPS buffs. Think it also sees use in wvw.

    Not even in WvW anymore. Firebrand is the only reliable counter to Scourge, because it can counter conditions and reapply boons as fast as Scourge can corrupt them. Tempest can't maintain that- Overload Water and Water Staff 5, and its out of reliable/mobile condi cleanse. It still has field combos, but those are harder to coordinate now.

    This has kind of pushed Ele into a role of pure back line, usually focused on power damage to pile on top of the condi pressure being generated by Scourges. Tempest builds offer some additional sustain for the Back line, but Weaver offers more self protection via utilities, and additional damage buffs via traits; making Weaver the stronger choice overall, since theres always the risk of being separated from the firebrands.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @nexblackheart.3471 said:
    Tempest:
    To start one of the major things with tempest is how the class works. It is built to be a weird support power hybrid, which is fine as firebrand is similar, but the power side is far outclassed by power weaver. If you single in on the support traits and making the shouts more support orientated can really help fix this issue. Another change I suggest is making a trait what when you overload an element it pulses a boon depending on which element you overload. Fire would supply might, air would give fury or quickness, earth would give protection, and water would give regeneration or vigor. And what you could do is have the overloads be on a universal cooldown similar to that of the glyph of storms change (sorry if this is already implimented, it has been awhile since I've actually played tempest). On top of that, the shouts could have more supportive utility, even if it is just through the use of traits where they could give temperary team buffs similar to the use of glyphs on druid.

    I'll comment here, because it's the class I know.
    First off, overloads already pulse stuff. Fire pulses Might, Water pulses cleanse and so forth.
    Second, it's not really about the shouts. You can already load them up heavily - shouts grant aura, auras apply boons. The problem is, it's irrelevant. These boons are already supplied, and the extra healing just isn't needed.

    Giving unique damage modifiers (like druid's GoE for instance) would work, but all it would do is make a pair Druid+Tempest mandatory so you can stack both modifiers at the same time. Which would also be a logistics hell without voice comm, but that's another issue.

    Frankly, the more reasonable way which could provide some diversity around is the opposite - get rid of the unique modifiers, do all the support through boon sharing, then wreck the chrono and (to a lesser extent) the druid so sources of fury, swiftness, vigor and prot are actually useful.

  • Knox.8962Knox.8962 Member ✭✭✭

    Double or triple the rate that damage is done and the healing landscape opens up significantly.

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