Elites weapons for cores, How to deal with new E-Spec. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Elites weapons for cores, How to deal with new E-Spec.

Hi good people of Tyria.
I just want to discuss with you some thing and I would like the know your opinion.
Make this thread friendly no hate or flame pls.

o What if Elite specs weapons was bound to core after you fully unlock spec. (Example: I play core guardian but i Play Core with Longbow and Axe,shield)

o And what if we could use both Elite Specs?
They will need to change little bit but my idea is.
Example:( You play core necro and you want to go full support, so you take Blood Magic,Soul Reaping and "Scourge"(Barrier spec, that allows you use "Punnishment skills", and that
will allow you use on DS3 and DS5 put out barrier(theoreticly).) Elite specs traitlines will be just new specialization that you can use( some of them will need to be nerfed and reworked
but you can then more adress what they have to do.
Example: Mesmer have issue with healing so next spec will bring him "heal spec"(with utilities that help you with this" so you can theoreticly set up your role.

o And Third thing. What if you just have in Character Panel some new buttons and you pick what you wanna play.
Example: You have to choose between
Elementalist - Tempest - Weaver (And you can choose what proffesion skills you want to use. There will be more space to revamp some specs.
(Another Example: Wanna Core Shroud, Reaper Shroud or Shades?) just pick

o why I think it would be good?
Some E-spec will no longer be carried by OP weapons. Gap between OP and unusable weapons will be shorter because you can wear it on all "specs"
Easier balance for devs, and esier implementation to classes.
Some Core Classes will need to be buffed a lot to catch a breath with Elites, some not that much.
And last but not least, more build variety.

It will be hard to remake it, rename traitlines, tweak them to current roles. But on paper I think it could work, even in further patches.
Do you agree with some point or none or all of them? Tell me pls

RiseJoko:(

Jokaurene

Comments

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    I wouldn't be against it although it might make future development of elite specs more difficult without some heavy changes to the weapon system.

    For example some classes have a lot more weapon potential for elite specs than others which due to a bigger weapon pool are restricted to what they can unlock with an elite spec.
    Add to that the potential balancing problems with unforseen OP spec weapon combos which would certainly happen somewhere that could potentially take up a fair bit more dev time.

    That said though I have toyed with the idea of weapon skill swapping as a concept for Gw2 although I don't think i've ever put the idea forward before.. might have but don't remember.
    As a Gw1 fan and still player I did really enjoy the insane build potential in that game even though I am aware that the devs regulalry complained about how much of a nightmare it was to balance which I can completely understand and respect.

    I do think that adding additional choice based weapon skill sets to weapons might be a potential way to not only allow for players to perma unlock spec weapons for use in all their builds (which would increase build diversity) but it would also allow for future elite specs to get a bit more design freedom since you could simply add a second greatsword skill set to the warrior without needing to replace the original or potentially limit the design concept of the elite spec and allow the players to choose which skills they prefer without diminishing the elite spec as you'll still have the spec's primary utility skills but mostly traits and special F features to consider when making your build anyway.

    Edit*
    To flesh out the example a bit using the Warrior.
    So new expansion coming and devs are deciding on the elite spec concept
    We'll start with weapons since new weapon is often a big deal when it comes to the new elite spec.
    There are 19 weapon types in the game and the Warrior can use 13 of them including the 2 current elite spec weapons Dagger and Torch..
    This limits future warrior elite specs to.. Pistol, Trident, Staff, Sceptor, Shortbow and Focus.

    I think it's probably safe to bet that Trident wouldn't be a high priority considering it's an underwater weapon and that's far less important unless the expansion is based around water content.
    Focus and Sceptor might be more tricky to add due to them being magical weapons and Warrior is more of a bash bash stab stab kinda class.
    (Melee)Staff, Pistol and Shortbow are the more likely candidates to be considered as they fit easier into the Warrior class and playstyle.. so time think up some elite spec concepts that fit those weapons and the playstyles that spec is going to promote..

    This is where I'd bet things start to feel limited in the creative process.. spec name, special mechanic, theme etc.. and I am not a very creative person myself so I do not envy the people who's job it is to think this stuff up.
    If the spec is going to be based in part around the weapon where do you really start with the options you have left?.. (I'm certainly drawing a blank)
    For some I'd guess it's a bit easier.. Druid using staff.. Deadeye using rifle.. they just melt together pretty well and fit.

    There are probably some great ideas already for Warrior elite specs that don't really fit with the weapon pool that's left.. lord knows how many Warrior concepts there are depicting different ways a Warrior can destroy you with a Greatsword or Hammer.
    If it were possible to utalize the 11 default warrior weapons in the process of creating an elite spec by adding an additional set of skills for those weapons instead of forcing a new weapon entirely I think it would give the developers more creative freedom on future specs as well as the players more build diversity.

    I certainly wouldn't mind the idea of running a Warrior with 2 greatswords yet completely different skills on each one..

  • Luindu.2418Luindu.2418 Member ✭✭

    Interesting idea but i think is less risky and more easy to manage if the "proeficiency" minor traits could be selected in an independent slot, separated from the spec trait line once you fully unlocked. Obviously preventing people from carrying more than one spec weapon at the same time.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The thing about the weapons. Yes i would gladly have this.
    I would give it one restriction though or rather a bonus to core: Only core can use all unlocked weapons. An E-Spec cannot use the weapon of another E-Spec.

    The thing about mixing E-Specs: Nope, would only make a mess and a balancing nightmare, utilities and class mechanic should be E-Spec only. And not mixable.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2018

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    The thing about the weapons. Yes i would gladly have this.
    I would give it one restriction though or rather a bonus to core: Only core can use all unlocked weapons. An E-Spec cannot use the weapon of another E-Spec.

    The thing about mixing E-Specs: Nope, would only make a mess and a balancing nightmare, utilities and class mechanic should be E-Spec only. And not mixable.

    They Will no Longer was e-specs but more target specs. If you také Mirage you dont be Mirage you JUST have vigor after shatter And utilities etc

    Jokaurene

  • It's not going to happen. It geometrically increases the number of interactions ANet has to consider when adding a new elite. It decreases the negative trade off of choosing to equip an elite (or not). And it undermines one of the selling points of expansions: unlocking new weapons and new specs compared to Free-to-Play.

    I think the OP might get more traction by pointing out specific issues with core profs and asking ANet to address those, under the existing paradigm that elite weapon choices are tied to the elite trait line.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2018

    Why would you want to break balance by allowing 2 elite specs at the same time? Also it would be a nightmare to implement on classes whose F skills change such as Reaper.

    Elite specs are more powerful than core specs generally:

    Ele: tempest/weaver
    Engi: scrapper/holosmith
    Guardian: DH/firebrand -- F skill change
    Mesmer: Chrono / Mirage -- dodge change and continuum split
    Necro: Reaper/Scourge -- F skill change ; scourge needs to be worked on when boons are everywhere (i.e. fractals)
    Ranger: Druid / Soulbeast
    Revenant: Herald/Renegade -- Renegade needs work
    Thief: daredevil / deadeye -- F skill change
    Warrior: Berserker, Spellbreaker -- only 2 level burst on SB

    If anything core specs should be made level with Elite specs for the most part.

  • Orpheal.8263Orpheal.8263 Member ✭✭✭

    Elite Specializations need to get finally completely integrated into the Mastery System.
    Why habe two different forms of Character Progression Systems, when you need only just 1 only - the Mastery DSystem, which stands just over everything by design as the high end system which can easily coordinate everything together, and by this make sure, that certain parts of the Elite Specializations can become useable for Core Classes as well too - not all, but just those parts, which are required for the Build Diversity to which Core Classes should have access after some time to, to balance out Core Classes better to the Elite Specs and to reduce this way the powercreep on this game a bit.

    The Weapon, the Healing Skill and the Utility Skills of an Elite Specialization need to become unlockable for the Core Class to be useable, when you haven't just only learned an Elite Specialization, but also MASTERED it.

    When you learn an Elite Specialization by activating it with enough Hero Points from doing Hero Challenges, this woill unlock then for the player the Specialization 's based Mastery.. and when you mastered it, step by step, will unlock for your Core Class then more and more of the E-Spec Mechanics to the Core Clas.

    ESpec Mastery Tier 1 = Unlocks Healing Skill to use for Core Class as well
    ESpec Mastery Tier 2 = Unlocks first 2 Utility Skills of the Spec to use for Core too
    ESpec Mastery Tier 3 = Unlocks last 2 Utility Skilsl of the Spec to use for Core too
    ESpec Mastery Tier 4 = Unlocks the E Spec Weapon to use for the Core too.

    What will stay unique to the E-Spec will be the Traits, cause changing the Traits is the way to activate the E-Spec, to change to it, so these can't become useable for the Core, because with them you are no Core anymore, you are then the E-Spec.
    And the E-Specs Elite Skill absolutely must stay unique to the Elite Spec, this Skill is essential to the Specialization and must stay at all costs unique to the E-Spec, but everythign else aside of Traits should become step by step useable for the Core too, so more you master the Specialization.

    its a significant difference, if you have learned only asomething, or if you have truly MASTERED something. the connectiong of having truly mastered a Specialization in this game is missign to me absolutely and thats wherefore actualyl the Mastery System should be truly existing for in my honest opinion!!


    Cassandra Lancaster - Achievement Hunter - 28,9k AP currently - Server: Drakkar Lake/EU - Mastery Rank of 254
    I'm the proud Origin of the Elite Specializations Concept (Sub Classes) through the last made CDI Project.


  • @Orpheal.8263 said:
    Elite Specializations need to get finally completely integrated into the Mastery System.
    Why habe two different forms of Character Progression Systems, when you need only just 1 only - the Mastery DSystem, which stands just over everything by design as the high end system which can easily coordinate everything together, and by this make sure, that certain parts of the Elite Specializations can become useable for Core Classes as well too - not all, but just those parts, which are required for the Build Diversity to which Core Classes should have access after some time to, to balance out Core Classes better to the Elite Specs and to reduce this way the powercreep on this game a bit.

    The Weapon, the Healing Skill and the Utility Skills of an Elite Specialization need to become unlockable for the Core Class to be useable, when you haven't just only learned an Elite Specialization, but also MASTERED it.

    When you learn an Elite Specialization by activating it with enough Hero Points from doing Hero Challenges, this woill unlock then for the player the Specialization 's based Mastery.. and when you mastered it, step by step, will unlock for your Core Class then more and more of the E-Spec Mechanics to the Core Clas.

    ESpec Mastery Tier 1 = Unlocks Healing Skill to use for Core Class as well
    ESpec Mastery Tier 2 = Unlocks first 2 Utility Skills of the Spec to use for Core too
    ESpec Mastery Tier 3 = Unlocks last 2 Utility Skilsl of the Spec to use for Core too
    ESpec Mastery Tier 4 = Unlocks the E Spec Weapon to use for the Core too.

    What will stay unique to the E-Spec will be the Traits, cause changing the Traits is the way to activate the E-Spec, to change to it, so these can't become useable for the Core, because with them you are no Core anymore, you are then the E-Spec.
    And the E-Specs Elite Skill absolutely must stay unique to the Elite Spec, this Skill is essential to the Specialization and must stay at all costs unique to the E-Spec, but everythign else aside of Traits should become step by step useable for the Core too, so more you master the Specialization.

    its a significant difference, if you have learned only asomething, or if you have truly MASTERED something. the connectiong of having truly mastered a Specialization in this game is missign to me absolutely and thats wherefore actualyl the Mastery System should be truly existing for in my honest opinion!!

    Again, the issue that arises from this is he exponentially increasing amount of balance that needs to be done. He current system divides all the skills/abilities/weapons into their respective specialization. People already complain to ANet about the “horrible balancing” they do, and this will only increase that resentment.

    Overall, I think this idea is kinda stupid, trying to slap on a a mastery track just to say you “mastered it”. Masteries and hero points are two distinctly different things and should be kept as such. One is used to progress your character in overall skills that are shared between classes (mounts, gliding, crafting, etc) and the other improves how your class itself plays.

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    No I think they have enough balancding problems as it is, for example imagine a Soulbeast running druid staff that stuff would be OP as fuuuuuuuudge. (Unblockable range beam with sic em and Soulbeast power buffs OMG)

    On second thought sure let us be OP

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Tying Elites to the Mastery system wouldn't show if someone has mastered something, just that they completed the steps to earn that Elite spec. The Mastery system isn't about showing if someone has mastered anything. Additionally, the game isn't missing a method to show if you truly mastered something. That's what PvP/WvW/Raids etc etc do. You can see if a person has mastered something by how well they do in those modes of play. It's also worth pointing out that the Mastery system is about account wide advancement while Elite specs show character level advancement. Thus the game really doesn't have two forms of character progression.

  • The V.8759The V.8759 Member ✭✭

    @Luindu.2418 said:
    Interesting idea but i think is less risky and more easy to manage if the "proeficiency" minor traits could be selected in an independent slot, separated from the spec trait line once you fully unlocked. Obviously preventing people from carrying more than one spec weapon at the same time.

    Shortest but brightest comment in here. This would be perfect imo. It does however cost quite a bit of work for elementalist for example if it gets another main hand weapon in a future elite spec. But generally a very good idea.

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