Hardest profession profession to play? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Hardest profession profession to play?

Overall hardest profession to play effectively. Consider PvP, PvE (fractals, raids, open world), and all specializations.

Hardest profession profession to play? 233 votes

Warrior
1%
Oglaf.1074Coolguy.8702Fenella.2634jan.7915 4 votes
Guardian
0%
Duskflow.4523 1 vote
Revenant
15%
BlaqueFyre.5678Curunen.8729Forty Keks.9620XxsdgxX.8109Buran.3796LucianTheAngelic.7054Cirrus.7413Chaith.8256Raknar.4735Opopanax.1803Reverielle.3972Kumouta.4985Exalted Quality.8534Milan.9035Hackuuna.4085Gemnaid.4219Belishine.7493aimz.6287samo.1054Hiki.9310 36 votes
Ranger
0%
guest.9472jlwk.6095 2 votes
Thief
8%
Alatar.7364TakeCare.3182Grimheart.2853Lahmia.2193rbbthole.9074Jack Redline.5379Azure The Heartless.3261Vornollo.5182Calvsie.3675Valerie Kyrie.2970Fruity Kitty.3160kreven.6017ToySoldiers.4509Lost Dimension.9014Bashi.8902noone.9104King Nutella.4570sick.3092steveraptor.9603 19 votes
Engineer
30%
Alexandar.5698ReaverKane.7598DKShang.8792TwiceDead.1963Ertrak.9506Khailyn.6248ScottBroChill.3254Lalainnia.3598Zaraki.5784Rym.1469Arimas.3492Lily.1935Ivantreil.3092Vagrant.7206cat.8975ProtoGunner.4953Alga.6498HnRkLnXqZ.1870Xenrocs.9468blindrage.6158 72 votes
Necromancer
0%
Aplethoraof.2643PH Law.4063 2 votes
Elementalist
30%
maddoctor.2738Solori.6025HyperLooser.2698Mea.5491BadSanta.6527Kuulpb.5412calb.3128Kako.1930Feanor.2358Warscythes.9307Robban.1256lLobo.7960Herdum.3194SnowHawk.3615Arheundel.6451Blood Red Arachnid.2493welns.3245sokeenoppa.5384Akiro.3952LadyKitty.6120 72 votes
Mesmer
10%
MaxwellM.2075Geisterlicht.6083Zephyria.6103Uden Reavstone.3426Arionell.3574Hot Boy.7138InsaneQR.7412ZeftheWicked.3076Kal Bhairav.6589Lite Ning Strike.5203Jaidy.1824Pwent.2639SloRules.3560Dark Knight.6294Julischka Bean.7491Deeyra.1476Medvedovka.8523Arafel.6895Jack.3518Artemisflame.7462 25 votes
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Comments

  • Frozey.8513Frozey.8513 Member ✭✭
    Revenant

    Rev until they finally fix it :joy:

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Engineer

    Engineer. But it wouldn't be the case if kits could stand on their own and their other utility skills had real use. Some do, don't get me wrong. Bulwark gyro is my baby. But overall lots of them don't really slot into a build as well as the 1 or 2 skills kits are used for.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Engineer

    Engineer, then Elementalist, then Revenant. If you swap in Weaver for Ele then I would move Weaver ahead of Engineer.

  • Rym.1469Rym.1469 Member ✭✭✭
    Engineer

    Engineer, especially if you exclude Scrapper and Holo. Hands down.

    Yeah, I stream once in a blue moon.

  • Elementalist

    The big ones (for me) are Ele, Engi, Mesmer, and Rev.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Engineer

    I don't know why people thing revenant is hard to play. It's one of the easiest classes to play ever. It's so easy I figured it out day one. Unless you're trying to heal. Than it is difficult. But even that doesn't compare to scourge or healing scrapper.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2018
    Mesmer

    Well ele and engi are darn hard to play good.
    Well i choose mesmer not because its as difficult as ele to play good but because of all the quirks and tricks you can do with all the mesmer skills. Which in the end is the highest skillcap i know is to play a mesmer that can utilize all the skill tricks in all environments.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Engineer

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    I don't know why people thing revenant is hard to play. It's one of the easiest classes to play ever. It's so easy I figured it out day one. Unless you're trying to heal. Than it is difficult. But even that doesn't compare to scourge or healing scrapper.

    There is a big leap in difficulty between playing the rev casually, and doing the maximum DPS rotations. Casually the rev is really easy: you just maintain the upkeeps, spam the melee weapon skills, and swap legends when it is off cooldown. Anybody can do that. But, if you're going for max deeps, there are countless things that can go wrong:

    (1): A lot of skills have varying levels of appropriateness. Citadel Bombardment and Inspiring Reinforcements are either terrible or the best skills in the game, all depending on if you're fighting a big stationary target or a small/mobile one. Sword 4, Sword 2, and Icerazor all split their damage between multiple targets. Razorclaw is only good with allies in range. Shortbow 4 and Shortbow 3 have weird positioning and usage. Etc. and so on. Using the wrong skill, or at the wrong time can cause performance to dip severely. Because of this, you need to have memorized a collection of which skills are good in which scenario, rather than a static rotation that works well anywhere.

    (2: )Energy management is hell once you're relying on Charged Mists. That's the trait that gives you 25 energy on weapon swap if you're under 10 while swapping. For maximum DPS it is required, but that 10 energy range is incredibly difficult to hit in a manner that is both maintaining maximum DPS but also reliable. If you undershoot it, your DPS is tanked no matter what you do, but if you are going to overshoot it your skills will stall, again ruining DPS. In order to maintain energy, rotations will have you delaying upkeep skills by half a second, just to hit that mark. This also means that you have to spend a lot more time staring at your energy bar, which makes watching the fight harder.

    (3): Because the entirety of the energy bar is required for the DPS rotation, all of the defensive and niche utilities are effectively disabled. While other classes can afford to have a defensive skill or two on the bar without losing much, Revs using their defensive skills takes away energy, which can throw the rhythm and severely hamper DPS. This causes a class that was once very durable to suddenly turn very glassy. Even dodging can break rhythm.

    (4): Minimizing the mistakes from above demands quick thinking and on-the-spot creativity.

    (5): All of the above also means that the class is hurt severely by latency.

    This puts the rev in the odd place where the skill floor is low, but the skill ceiling is incredibly high.

    I've played their damage rotations. Both Power and Condi. Its not hard. Its really freaking easy. Now, Engineer and Scourge? Those can be extremely difficult. Energy management on Rev is a joke. Its not really even much of a mechanic. I don't see how people can have such a hard time with it.

  • Belishine.7493Belishine.7493 Member ✭✭✭
    Revenant

    i say rev for the reson that they do not have a lot of skill that make them good in a one on one fight for me rev is more of a +1 not a solo. what that means is if you go to a fight unless you can get them off guard you will lose most of the time. the thing that hurts is we have not realy good range or any type of blink/stealth skills like that of a mes or thief. so in short it hurts us quite hard. i know some peps think that ele is hard but its not they are a strong class when you start to learn thare combos and learn how to swap elements at the right times its defenatly a more skilled class for pvp and wvw but not as bad as the rev from what i can tell.

  • yumee.1405yumee.1405 Member ✭✭
    Engineer

    I believe it's engi but maybe it's because I never tried to play it for real. I think it's a bit messy and so it didn't appeal me.
    I can understand when people say rev cause I'm terrible at it in wvw. I mean, it's easy to deeps but if you wanna do your job properly and survive and all, it gets harder than guard. (I mean guard in wvw cause .. if you wanna do the job well you really have to do so much things for your party and have eyes everywhere)
    As for ele, you're the most glass canon class so surviving and optimise your deeps is kinda the thing. Weaver is harder to survive in wvw than Ele but at the same time you have so much less to do ( no one gives a kitten about your boons, waterfield or any of your support since PoF so your job is minimized)

  • Jaruselka.5943Jaruselka.5943 Member ✭✭✭
    Engineer

    To be effective as an engineer you are constantly reconfiguring your skills and even traits on the fly for a given situation. That and the Rachmaninoff 5 level rotations just to get marginal damage output and you have a profession that has an off the charts skill floor..

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2018
    Mesmer

    Mesmer - you have to focu.....LIKE HELL I'M PLAYING A PROFFESION WITH PINK BUTTERFLIES!!!

    And now you know why i can't master mesmer...

  • jan.7915jan.7915 Member ✭✭
    Warrior

    @Jaruselka.5943 said:
    To be effective as an engineer you are constantly reconfiguring your skills and even traits on the fly for a given situation. That and the Rachmaninoff 5 level rotations just to get marginal damage output and you have a profession that has an off the charts skill floor..

    No kit holo us effective and very low complexity. Kit holo is medium complexity and very effective.
    Dunno about scrapper since I only put two hours of heal zerging so far but it feels a lot more complex.

    It always depends Which is why the vote.is flawed.

  • Jaruselka.5943Jaruselka.5943 Member ✭✭✭
    Engineer

    @jan.7915 said:

    @Jaruselka.5943 said:
    To be effective as an engineer you are constantly reconfiguring your skills and even traits on the fly for a given situation. That and the Rachmaninoff 5 level rotations just to get marginal damage output and you have a profession that has an off the charts skill floor..

    No kit holo us effective and very low complexity. Kit holo is medium complexity and very effective.
    Dunno about scrapper since I only put two hours of heal zerging so far but it feels a lot more complex.

    It always depends Which is why the vote.is flawed.

    The complexity increases as you roll back from PoF. I usually main a scrapper sustain build (WvW only) and recently went back and tried the vanilla engie after the latest so-called “buffs”. The slight boost in damage from poison dart etc doesn’t make up for the nerfs to tinctures (elixir gun/med kit can help but the kits themselves are garbage and take up valuable slot real estate) which leaves you vulnerable to the condie storm that is WvW. That and the (admittedly less) randomititis that plagues the class as a whole and vanilla engie is essentially a murdered spec. The design decisions over the progression of the game cynically steer players to the elites offered in the expansions.

  • calb.3128calb.3128 Member ✭✭✭
    Elementalist

    Ele and kit Engi for similar reasons. It takes a while to get used to, but there is something immensely satisfying in pulverising your keyboard.

  • Engineer

    engi has always had hard rotations for me without a lot of practice so i'd say mechanically they are the hardest. Ele I feel is easier to get a hang of and requires a lot of button pressing, but not as much thought is needed as with engi. Revenant to me is the most situationally difficult. You can play rev easily and do ok, but maximizing revenants potential requires a lot of work, positioning, timing, and energy management that other classes don't have to worry about. I think the difficulty is the skills aren't free so it's all about making constant trade offs the whole fight. engi>rev>ele

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Revenant

    @Lily.1935 said:
    I don't know why people thing revenant is hard to play. It's one of the easiest classes to play ever. It's so easy I figured it out day one. Unless you're trying to heal. Than it is difficult. But even that doesn't compare to scourge or healing scrapper.

    Revenant usually has very bad condition cleansing, not access to stability at all and lacks stealth, plus they have both cooldowns AND energy to spent to be able to use skills.

    I can understand that some people choses Eles as the hardest to play because they use a lot of skills and a bad rotation or mistake can kill them very fast, but Engineer is a stealth class, in a game in which stealth is the strongest skill. Classes with broad access to stealth are easy mode.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Engineer

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    I don't know why people thing revenant is hard to play. It's one of the easiest classes to play ever. It's so easy I figured it out day one. Unless you're trying to heal. Than it is difficult. But even that doesn't compare to scourge or healing scrapper.

    Revenant usually has very bad condition cleansing, not access to stability at all and lacks stealth, plus they have both cooldowns AND energy to spent to be able to use skills.

    I can understand that some people choses Eles as the hardest to play because they use a lot of skills and a bad rotation or mistake can kill them very fast, but Engineer is a stealth class, in a game in which stealth is the strongest skill. Classes with broad access to stealth are easy mode.

    Engineer is not a stealth class. It has a little bit of stealth, but honestly, not much outside of Stealth Gyro. And they lost some stealth with the recent patch. And not to mention that Holosmith's holoforge mechanic can kill you if you're not careful, plus the new rotation requires you use it to damage yourself so, how about that. Engineer is stated to be the most difficult class because it is. Its rotations are more involved than Elementalists and are more dangerous to the Engineer itself.

    Also, Necromancer has low access to stability, less than Revenant, fewer stunbreaks, their condi cleans mostly requires them to be the aggressor which means its difficult or impossible to use if running away, lacks stealth, no blocks, no invuln, no disengage skills has both cool downs AND energy to spend on shroud and shades, Plus they attack really slow, have major tells, damage tends to be inconsistent, their defenses have diminishing returns in PvP, one mistake on their condi rotation can lead to your death without the enemy even hitting you, most their skills there is a better version of that skill on another profession at half the cool down. So yeah, everything you complain about the Revenant is matched by Necromancer and some. And that doesn't make necromancer the hardest to play.

    Revenant has to deal with energy. Sure, but their energy mechanic is really easy to use. None of their skills requires that much energy, you get 50% to 75% of it back when swapping legends, it regenerates really quickly, you have reliable projectle blocks, access to blocks much better access to stability than necromancer, skills are on a very low cool down, you can disengage a foe without a problem. I'll give you their condi cleans isn't that great. But honestly its no worse than mesmers. Revenant is a really simplistic class to play. Its tricks are straightforward and its rotation doesn't require much thought. I play revenant when I need a break from the more difficult rotations on Scourge and Engineer. Its my relax class. Warrior is too simplistic for me.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2018
    Elementalist

    The only hard thing about engi is condi build in pve due to juggling 4 kits. Most of other builds use 2 kits at most, and in general you use 2-3 skills per kit at most, so if you have only one kit in your build it's even easier than other classes (weapon swap has cd and it stops animations unlike kits; other classes use more skills from 2nd weapon set). It has easy access to boons, cleanses, mobility and cc or at least 3 of those on any current build, regardless of game mode. It can also stack both might and stealth quickly (prestacking with blasts - mostly pve, gyro - everywhere), unlike ele and thief who can do only one.

    I chose ele because it gets 4 "kits" by default, it uses most skills on all of them (except some pve builds which use conjureds instead), it cant sustain itself/survive long without investing a lot into defensive stats (unlike at least 5 classes) aka it's pretty squishy. It also relies a lot (not all builds though) on predicting actions (meteor and general skill placement in wvw, conjures in pve) due to slow nature of staff skills and pve encounters/group dps dependency.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Revenant

    @Lily.1935 said:

    Revenant is a really simplistic class to play. Its tricks are straightforward and its rotation doesn't require much thought. I play revenant when I need a break from the more difficult rotations on Scourge and Engineer. Its my relax class. Warrior is too simplistic for me.

    I have the same w/l ratio in the 1482 PvP matches played with my Rev as in the 28 played with my Necro, which can be played sucessfully hitting the keyboard with the forehead (only Mesmer is easier). Necro has more base HP, an extra life bar, more cc, larger AoEs and if specced to condi damage can run 2 defensive stats, not to mention that as happens with most of classes, has full freedom to combine its skills, whereas Rev uses fixed skills. Even worse, only one build (Glint + Shiro with axe+X/staff) had remained somewhat viable in 2.5 years since the arrival of the class , so everyone facing Rev knowns exactly its strenghts and weakness. Engineers are a mix between the rotation system from Eles but with the mobility and passive lifesavers of a Warrior (plus access to stealth). I'm not sayin that isn't the easiest class to master (I'll put in the top three) but Eles and Revs are harder.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Engineer

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    Revenant is a really simplistic class to play. Its tricks are straightforward and its rotation doesn't require much thought. I play revenant when I need a break from the more difficult rotations on Scourge and Engineer. Its my relax class. Warrior is too simplistic for me.

    I have the same w/l ratio in the 1482 PvP matches played with my Rev as in the 28 played with my Necro, which can be played sucessfully hitting the keyboard with the forehead (only Mesmer is easier). Necro has more base HP, an extra life bar, more cc, larger AoEs and if specced to condi damage can run 2 defensive stats, not to mention that as happens with most of classes, has full freedom to combine its skills, whereas Rev uses fixed skills. Even worse, only one build (Glint + Shiro with axe+X/staff) had remained somewhat viable in 2.5 years since the arrival of the class , so everyone facing Rev knowns exactly its strenghts and weakness. Engineers are a mix between the rotation system from Eles but with the mobility and passive lifesavers of a Warrior (plus access to stealth). I'm not sayin that isn't the easiest class to master (I'll put in the top three) but Eles and Revs are harder.

    Nuh dude. Revenant is super easy. Two heal skills, 10 second stun breaks, or no recharge at all, tones of extra toughness. The meta in PvP currently is Condi focused but if it were to shift to power, rev would be at the top. Its just a bad time for you in PvP, this doesn't mean its hard to play. Because it isn't. Its really freakin easy.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lanhelin.3480 said:
    The hardest profession to play is the one you're not used to.

    ^this. for me it would be ranger.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Engineer

    For pve: Condi engineer. Holo is pretty easy though, because you can play it with no kits and still do very good amount of dps

    In wvw/PvP: necro or rev. Rev because condicleanses on him are pretty bad and because they have to manage a recourse. Necro because it has the most weaknesses of all classes, and is pretty hard to play very good.

  • BEETLEjay.2459BEETLEjay.2459 Member ✭✭
    edited July 23, 2018
    Elementalist

    @ZeftheWicked.3076 said:
    Mesmer - you have to focu.....LIKE HELL I'M PLAYING A PROFFESION WITH PINK BUTTERFLIES!!!

    And now you know why i can't master mesmer...

    Yeah! They should be black butterflies, like Tyki Mikk! 😉

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2018
    Engineer

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    I don't know why people thing revenant is hard to play. It's one of the easiest classes to play ever. It's so easy I figured it out day one. Unless you're trying to heal. Than it is difficult. But even that doesn't compare to scourge or healing scrapper.

    I can understand that some people choses Eles as the hardest to play because they use a lot of skills and a bad rotation or mistake can kill them very fast, but Engineer is a stealth class, in a game in which stealth is the strongest skill. Classes with broad access to stealth are easy mode.

    Engineer is a "stealth class"?

    There only two skills which directly apply stealth on engineer, and they each consume a valuable utility slot: Throw Elixir S and Stealth Gyro. Stealth gyro requires scrapper and consumes the valuable elite slot, and throw elixir S lasts for about 4 seconds. The only other way to get stealth on an engineer is blast/leaping smoking fields, which any other class can do as well. Engineer can potentially provide three smoke fields: Smoke screen (very situational and not reliable), autodefense bomb dispenser (a smoke bomb on stun), and smoke bomb.

    Ranger has similar access to stealth that engineer has, and it's even built into one of their weapons too.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2018
    Engineer

    As others have said, it's probably Core Condi Engi for PvE dps with honourable mention to Weaver.

    For PvP, it's probably Revenant, due to its kill-or-be-killed playstyle with few defensive/cleanse options and basically no escapes. The actual play of the class is pretty easy, but it's not very forgiving of mistakes.

    Oh, and for WvW, I'd say Thief in any kind of medium-large fight. Trying to get in melee range in the middle of countless AoEs is rough when a single hit from most classes will insta-down you.

  • Hoodie.1045Hoodie.1045 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Engineer

    Engineer, hands down. It is without a doubt the most complex and difficult profession in the game. Elementalist is a difficult profession, but it is only second best. If you know me, you'll know that I am of course talking about core engineer and not that pathetic excuse of an engineer specialization the Holosmith.

    Core engineer and the Scrapper are the intelligent fighters who use their inventions, kits and gadgets wisely to overcome and defeat their opponents.
    The Holosmith is the one who says that he studied the arts of engineering, but really he's just that random drunk swings his weapon like Star Wars Kid.

    Karras

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2018
    Revenant

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    Revenant is a really simplistic class to play. Its tricks are straightforward and its rotation doesn't require much thought. I play revenant when I need a break from the more difficult rotations on Scourge and Engineer. Its my relax class. Warrior is too simplistic for me.

    I have the same w/l ratio in the 1482 PvP matches played with my Rev as in the 28 played with my Necro, which can be played sucessfully hitting the keyboard with the forehead (only Mesmer is easier). Necro has more base HP, an extra life bar, more cc, larger AoEs and if specced to condi damage can run 2 defensive stats, not to mention that as happens with most of classes, has full freedom to combine its skills, whereas Rev uses fixed skills. Even worse, only one build (Glint + Shiro with axe+X/staff) had remained somewhat viable in 2.5 years since the arrival of the class , so everyone facing Rev knowns exactly its strenghts and weakness. Engineers are a mix between the rotation system from Eles but with the mobility and passive lifesavers of a Warrior (plus access to stealth). I'm not sayin that isn't the easiest class to master (I'll put in the top three) but Eles and Revs are harder.

    Nuh dude. Revenant is super easy. Two heal skills, 10 second stun breaks, or no recharge at all, tones of extra toughness. The meta in PvP currently is Condi focused but if it were to shift to power, rev would be at the top. Its just a bad time for you in PvP, this doesn't mean its hard to play. Because it isn't. Its really freakin easy.

    Two heal skills? You mean the one which barely heals you if the enemy choses to not attack the next 3 seconds, and the one which doesn't heal you if your foe evades/blocks/blinds you or just activates an invuln? In both cases the base healing is pathetic and against decent players is expected to provide sub-optimal performance. So yeah, you have to half-healings each 30 seconds which become two quarter-healings due is your enemy the one which determines how effective they are (by the way: if your enemy is triggering Infuse Light or eating Enchanted Daggers the chances are that is such baddie that probably you don't need the heals, so you have two heals vs bad players and none vs good players).

    And you're talking about stunbreaks through legend swapping, but you forget that that change is oftenly situational, due weapon skills do cost energy. So you have to chose between stop attacking to save the breakstun while waiting energy refill, or to change the legend to use skills and waste a breakstun. It has a cost of opportunity. Plus, don't se the "tons of extra thoughness", most of Revs in PvP or WvW roaming do move between 2200-2500 total armor, which for a "heavy plates" character is laughlable (but makes sense because armor does nothing in a game in which most of the damage comes from conditions, so points put there are a waste).

    Revs are harder to play than Engieneers and a proof of that is the lower number of the former playing in platinum and up. The only half-decent build is 2.5 years old and their role as +1 marauder is way better covered by Thieves, Mesmers, Rangers and even Engineers.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Engineer

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    Revenant is a really simplistic class to play. Its tricks are straightforward and its rotation doesn't require much thought. I play revenant when I need a break from the more difficult rotations on Scourge and Engineer. Its my relax class. Warrior is too simplistic for me.

    I have the same w/l ratio in the 1482 PvP matches played with my Rev as in the 28 played with my Necro, which can be played sucessfully hitting the keyboard with the forehead (only Mesmer is easier). Necro has more base HP, an extra life bar, more cc, larger AoEs and if specced to condi damage can run 2 defensive stats, not to mention that as happens with most of classes, has full freedom to combine its skills, whereas Rev uses fixed skills. Even worse, only one build (Glint + Shiro with axe+X/staff) had remained somewhat viable in 2.5 years since the arrival of the class , so everyone facing Rev knowns exactly its strenghts and weakness. Engineers are a mix between the rotation system from Eles but with the mobility and passive lifesavers of a Warrior (plus access to stealth). I'm not sayin that isn't the easiest class to master (I'll put in the top three) but Eles and Revs are harder.

    Nuh dude. Revenant is super easy. Two heal skills, 10 second stun breaks, or no recharge at all, tones of extra toughness. The meta in PvP currently is Condi focused but if it were to shift to power, rev would be at the top. Its just a bad time for you in PvP, this doesn't mean its hard to play. Because it isn't. Its really freakin easy.

    Two heal skills? You mean the one which barely heals you if the enemy choses to not attack the next 3 seconds, and the one which doesn't heal you if your foe evades/blocks/blinds you or just activates an invuln? In both cases the base healing is pathetic and against decent players is expected to provide sub-optimal performance. So yeah, you have to half-healings each 30 seconds which become two quarter-healings due is your enemy the one which determines how effective they are (by the way: if your enemy is triggering Infuse Light or eating Enchanted Daggers the chances are that is such baddie that probably you don't need the heals, so you have two heals vs bad players and none vs good players).

    And you're talking about stunbreaks through legend swapping, but you forget that that change is oftenly situational, due weapon skills do cost energy. So you have to chose between stop attacking to save the breakstun while waiting energy refill, or to change the legend to use skills and waste a breakstun. It has a cost of opportunity. Plus, don't se the "tons of extra thoughness", most of Revs in PvP or WvW roaming do move between 2200-2500 total armor, which for a "heavy plates" character is laughlable (but makes sense because armor does nothing in a game in which most of the damage comes from conditions, so points put there are a waste).

    Revs are harder to play than Engieneers and a proof of that is the lower number of the former playing in platinum and up. The only half-decent build is 2.5 years old and their role as +1 marauder is way better covered by Thieves, Mesmers, Rangers and even Engineers.

    Just because a meta is designed to counter a profession doesn't mean the profession itself is hard to play. Hell your arguments can almost all apply to the necromancer a few years back. The meta was almost designed to crush necromancers but that didn't make them hard to play. And number of people playing a class doesn't quite work for rev to indicate how easy it is to play. Remember it was years before rev was introduced to the game so a majority of the player base had already established their main.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2018
    Engineer

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    I don't know why people thing revenant is hard to play. It's one of the easiest classes to play ever. It's so easy I figured it out day one. Unless you're trying to heal. Than it is difficult. But even that doesn't compare to scourge or healing scrapper.

    I can understand that some people choses Eles as the hardest to play because they use a lot of skills and a bad rotation or mistake can kill them very fast, but Engineer is a stealth class, in a game in which stealth is the strongest skill. Classes with broad access to stealth are easy mode.

    Engineer is a "stealth class"?

    There only two skills which directly apply stealth on engineer, and they each consume a valuable utility slot: Throw Elixir S and Stealth Gyro. Stealth gyro requires scrapper and consumes the valuable elite slot, and throw elixir S lasts for about 4 seconds. The only other way to get stealth on an engineer is blast/leaping smoking fields, which any other class can do as well.

    Wanna talk about necro? XD

    Engineer can potentially provide three smoke fields: Smoke screen (very situational and not reliable), autodefense bomb dispenser (a smoke bomb on stun), and smoke bomb.

    Ranger has similar access to stealth that engineer has, and it's even built into one of their weapons too.

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Engineer

    It was more or less a tie between Engi and Ele (Reaver). It's the off screen cooldowns htat make it hard, especially if alacrity is involved. Other games let you see the CDs of your non-usable skills and GW2 should make the same. It's kitten stupid and I really hate that they won't let us customize the kitten GUI, so we can have as many skill slots as we want (additionally for food, gizmos etc.)

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Mesmer

    @BEETLEjay.2459 said:

    @ZeftheWicked.3076 said:
    Mesmer - you have to focu.....LIKE HELL I'M PLAYING A PROFFESION WITH PINK BUTTERFLIES!!!

    And now you know why i can't master mesmer...

    Yeah! They should be black butterflies, like Tyki Mikk! 😉

    Wish they would finally continue the Anime >.>
    Reading the manga is killing my budget >.<

    Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Revenant

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

    Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

    Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Mesmer

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

    Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

    Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

    Well i talked about maximum skillcap not how hard it is to get into it or play good .
    Mesmer has many in animation teleports, animation cancels skill prolongation and movement tricks other classes do not have to such an extend or at all.
    Ofc ele and engi are harder to play but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.
    Everything else can be boiled down to rotation and kiting skills which will be mastered at somepoint regardless of which class you play.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2018
    Engineer

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

    Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

    Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

    Ofc ele and engi are harder to play but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

    Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

    Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Mesmer

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

    Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

    Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

    Ofc ele and engi are harder to play but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

    Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

    Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

    Well this statement is totally valid because how hard a profession is or how hard it is to get the real hang of it is in the end individual.
    Personally i did not have any problems with engi rotations, felt like a different ele to me with some more quirks and ele itself i am pretty fluent in. Ofc i can play mesmer fluently but i most often screw up on the advanced stuff which i hadnt issues with other professions to such a degree.
    This poll is totally represantitive because many ppl struggle with ele or engi, i dont. I had most issues with mesmer high end stuff, especially when chrono F5 us involved.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Elementalist

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

    Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

    Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

    Ofc ele and engi are harder to play but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

    Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

    Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

    What if I told you that engi can have enough sustain, cc and damage with only one kit/forge, but ele cant with only one attunement?

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Engineer

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

    Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

    Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

    Ofc ele and engi are harder to play but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

    Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

    Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

    What if I told you that engi can have enough sustain, cc and damage with only one kit/forge, but ele cant with only one attunement?

    You do know that we have to use utility slots for kits right? You get them on your F1-F4, plus you can summon extra weapons should you have the need. ;)

    Forge is also different from a kit. Many traits that affect kits do not affect forge, and vice versa.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Elementalist

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

    Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

    Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

    Ofc ele and engi are harder to play but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

    Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

    Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

    What if I told you that engi can have enough sustain, cc and damage with only one kit/forge, but ele cant with only one attunement?

    You do know that we have to use utility slots for kits right? You get them on your F1-F4, plus you can summon extra weapons should you have the need. ;)

    Forge is also different from a kit. Many traits that affect kits do not affect forge, and vice versa.

    You dont use more than 2 kits per build though, besides on pve condi build. Kits also have no cooldowns and your F skill from kit is basically like utility skill. Conjureds also take utility slot, but they also have cast time, cooldown and are placable aoe. You also dont use any outside of pve (for actual combat).

    My point with forge was additional set of weapon skills. You dont need more than 2 of those to be effective on engi. So all kit juggling and complexity becomes irrelevant.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Elementalist

    It all depends on the game mode you are playing, but overall I'd say Elementalist. Hard rotations to get the same results as others, really squishy, relies on team mates for everything, without them the survival rate drops to bottom tier compared to any and every other profession.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Engineer

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

    Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

    Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

    Ofc ele and engi are harder to play but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

    Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

    Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

    What if I told you that engi can have enough sustain, cc and damage with only one kit/forge, but ele cant with only one attunement?

    You do know that we have to use utility slots for kits right? You get them on your F1-F4, plus you can summon extra weapons should you have the need. ;)

    Forge is also different from a kit. Many traits that affect kits do not affect forge, and vice versa.

    You dont use more than 2 kits per build though, besides on pve condi build. Kits also have no cooldowns and your F skill from kit is basically like utility skill. Conjureds also take utility slot, but they also have cast time, cooldown and are placable aoe. You also dont use any outside of pve (for actual combat).

    My point with forge was additional set of weapon skills. You dont need more than 2 of those to be effective on engi. So all kit juggling and complexity becomes irrelevant.

    Other builds use more than just 2 kits. Healer scrapper uses 3, and core condi engi also uses 4 kits, as you mentioned. The lack of a cooldown is because engineer doesn't have any other way to swap weapon skills, and we have to sacrifice the utility skill to have the kit. The toolbelt skill that you mentioned is not changeable. It comes with the kit. If you have to have the kit on your build, you have to have whatever toolbelt skill accompanies. You don't get to divorce from either one.

    And there are kits used in pvp all the time -- namely elixir gun, and to a lesser extent, tool kit. The trouble is that even those skills aren't that strong, they just have enough utility to merit their use. Bomb kit and grenade kit are very difficult to use well in a competitive setting given their wonky usage.

    We also only have 3 core weapons (most of which are laughably bad), so we're kind of obligated into using kits. There was a period of time prior to PoF where I hadn't seen any of my other utilities in PvE for years. I was running 4-kit condi that whole time, because it was the only way to eke out enough DPS to compete.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Elementalist

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

    Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

    Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

    Ofc ele and engi are harder to play but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

    Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

    Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

    What if I told you that engi can have enough sustain, cc and damage with only one kit/forge, but ele cant with only one attunement?

    You do know that we have to use utility slots for kits right? You get them on your F1-F4, plus you can summon extra weapons should you have the need. ;)

    Forge is also different from a kit. Many traits that affect kits do not affect forge, and vice versa.

    You dont use more than 2 kits per build though, besides on pve condi build. Kits also have no cooldowns and your F skill from kit is basically like utility skill. Conjureds also take utility slot, but they also have cast time, cooldown and are placable aoe. You also dont use any outside of pve (for actual combat).

    My point with forge was additional set of weapon skills. You dont need more than 2 of those to be effective on engi. So all kit juggling and complexity becomes irrelevant.

    Other builds use more than just 2 kits. Healer scrapper uses 3, and core condi engi also uses 4 kits, as you mentioned. The lack of a cooldown is because engineer doesn't have any other way to swap weapon skills, and we have to sacrifice the utility skill to have the kit. The toolbelt skill that you mentioned is not changeable. It comes with the kit. If you have to have the kit on your build, you have to have whatever toolbelt skill accompanies. You don't get to divorce from either one.

    And there are kits used in pvp all the time -- namely elixir gun, and to a lesser extent, tool kit. The trouble is that even those skills aren't that strong, they just have enough utility to merit their use. Bomb kit and grenade kit are very difficult to use well in a competitive setting given their wonky usage.

    We also only have 3 core weapons (most of which are laughably bad), so we're kind of obligated into using kits. There was a period of time prior to PoF where I hadn't seen any of my other utilities in PvE for years. I was running 4-kit condi that whole time, because it was the only way to eke out enough DPS to compete.

    That's all true, but almost none of that has to do anything with complexity.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Engineer

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

    Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

    Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

    Ofc ele and engi are harder to play but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

    Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

    Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

    What if I told you that engi can have enough sustain, cc and damage with only one kit/forge, but ele cant with only one attunement?

    You do know that we have to use utility slots for kits right? You get them on your F1-F4, plus you can summon extra weapons should you have the need. ;)

    Forge is also different from a kit. Many traits that affect kits do not affect forge, and vice versa.

    You dont use more than 2 kits per build though, besides on pve condi build. Kits also have no cooldowns and your F skill from kit is basically like utility skill. Conjureds also take utility slot, but they also have cast time, cooldown and are placable aoe. You also dont use any outside of pve (for actual combat).

    My point with forge was additional set of weapon skills. You dont need more than 2 of those to be effective on engi. So all kit juggling and complexity becomes irrelevant.

    Other builds use more than just 2 kits. Healer scrapper uses 3, and core condi engi also uses 4 kits, as you mentioned. The lack of a cooldown is because engineer doesn't have any other way to swap weapon skills, and we have to sacrifice the utility skill to have the kit. The toolbelt skill that you mentioned is not changeable. It comes with the kit. If you have to have the kit on your build, you have to have whatever toolbelt skill accompanies. You don't get to divorce from either one.

    And there are kits used in pvp all the time -- namely elixir gun, and to a lesser extent, tool kit. The trouble is that even those skills aren't that strong, they just have enough utility to merit their use. Bomb kit and grenade kit are very difficult to use well in a competitive setting given their wonky usage.

    We also only have 3 core weapons (most of which are laughably bad), so we're kind of obligated into using kits. There was a period of time prior to PoF where I hadn't seen any of my other utilities in PvE for years. I was running 4-kit condi that whole time, because it was the only way to eke out enough DPS to compete.

    That's all true, but almost none of that has to do anything with complexity.

    It does. As kits are weapon swaps, you waste time swapping to a kit, because you need a certain skill. If the skill is ready, good for you, if not = wasted time in a fight

    It's the exact same thing with ele.

    If we extend this, firebrand books, basically everything that equips you some kind of "weapon".

    necro death and reapershroud (which is much more critical due to it being the only real defense and you put it on a 10 second cd if you want to use offensive skill, but it's still on cd)

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Elementalist

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

    Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

    Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

    Ofc ele and engi are harder to play but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

    Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

    Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

    What if I told you that engi can have enough sustain, cc and damage with only one kit/forge, but ele cant with only one attunement?

    You do know that we have to use utility slots for kits right? You get them on your F1-F4, plus you can summon extra weapons should you have the need. ;)

    Forge is also different from a kit. Many traits that affect kits do not affect forge, and vice versa.

    You dont use more than 2 kits per build though, besides on pve condi build. Kits also have no cooldowns and your F skill from kit is basically like utility skill. Conjureds also take utility slot, but they also have cast time, cooldown and are placable aoe. You also dont use any outside of pve (for actual combat).

    My point with forge was additional set of weapon skills. You dont need more than 2 of those to be effective on engi. So all kit juggling and complexity becomes irrelevant.

    Other builds use more than just 2 kits. Healer scrapper uses 3, and core condi engi also uses 4 kits, as you mentioned. The lack of a cooldown is because engineer doesn't have any other way to swap weapon skills, and we have to sacrifice the utility skill to have the kit. The toolbelt skill that you mentioned is not changeable. It comes with the kit. If you have to have the kit on your build, you have to have whatever toolbelt skill accompanies. You don't get to divorce from either one.

    And there are kits used in pvp all the time -- namely elixir gun, and to a lesser extent, tool kit. The trouble is that even those skills aren't that strong, they just have enough utility to merit their use. Bomb kit and grenade kit are very difficult to use well in a competitive setting given their wonky usage.

    We also only have 3 core weapons (most of which are laughably bad), so we're kind of obligated into using kits. There was a period of time prior to PoF where I hadn't seen any of my other utilities in PvE for years. I was running 4-kit condi that whole time, because it was the only way to eke out enough DPS to compete.

    That's all true, but almost none of that has to do anything with complexity.

    It does. As kits are weapon swaps, you waste time swapping to a kit, because you need a certain skill. If the skill is ready, good for you, if not = wasted time in a fight

    It's the exact same thing with ele.

    If we extend this, firebrand books, basically everything that equips you some kind of "weapon".

    necro death and reapershroud (which is much more critical due to it being the only real defense and you put it on a 10 second cd if you want to use offensive skill, but it's still on cd)

    Except the part where every class works that way, but kits have no cooldown, no cast time and they dont cancel animations. Time wasted on engi is 1 second, time wasted on other classes is 8+ seconds.

    The only complex part of kits is having hidden cooldowns behind multiple kits, but you dont have multiple kits in most builds.

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  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Elementalist

    Ele is not -that- hard, but if you consider efficiency/complexity ratio it is by far the lowest.

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭
    Elementalist

    Engi would've won my vote & was actually my favorite class until holosmith became a thing. Even scrapper requires more thought to play than that spec. They really need to increase the cd of holoforge skills so you can't just pop in and out of it and having your 2~4 (especially #2 & #3) readily available to spam. The overheat trait is also incredibly stupid for pve. The whole point and the main fun of holosmith should be like how it is in pvp -- you try to maintain at least 50% heat at all times without overheating so you can get more damage and enhance your exceed skills.

  • Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭
    Engineer

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